Trading Post: Listing Fee and Selling Fee
No, No, No. The trading post is not supposed to be a simple way for crafters’ to turn a profit if it was then everyone would be doing it. Crafting in this game is a lot easier to max out in this game compared to other MMOs. Buying Materials and spending 10 seconds to craft something then list it back on the TP should not yield any profit at all.
The reason the prices are the way they are is because the materials are relatively simple to get for any level 80. And finding a crafter is even easier. So basically what I’m saying is that if one were to do all the work in order to craft the weapon collecting the raw materials would be the most difficult/ time consuming part. At which point would be at their highest value because at this point they can be made into numerous types of weapons/armor. After the item has bee crafted the value drops because even less people would be interested in getting that specific weapon.
Yeah, the 5% listing fee and 10% tax are perfectly fine to have in the game. The 10% tax should be made more explicit so people don’t unknowingly lose money, but having it there isn’t a problem.
If you want to make a profit crafting, don’t buy all the materials on the trading post. Problem solved!
If you want to make a profit crafting, don’t buy all the materials on the trading post. Problem solved!
Except it is not, because gathering is not free.
Yeah, the 5% listing fee and 10% tax are perfectly fine to have in the game. The 10% tax should be made more explicit so people don’t unknowingly lose money, but having it there isn’t a problem.
If you want to make a profit crafting, don’t buy all the materials on the trading post. Problem solved!
ironically, if they posted it openly about the 10% sales tax – people would be ensuring that they would be getting a profit more often. Be less undercutting which could result in crafters actually getting a profit.
There is no problem with the tax (though they could make it more visible, that’d be fine).
The problem is people who think that spending time gathering 3g worth of mats, crafting them into items and promptly selling those items for 2g are somehow making a profit off the TP.
The TP is working as intended. It’s being driven by supply and demand. It’s just that the supply of crafted items is primarily being filled by morons.
Lowering the tax would only change the prices but not the profit, since undercutting would still continue. Making the 15% total more obvious would improve the the profit, since undercutting would stop at the break even point and then you could at least buy low, sell higher.
There is no problem with the tax (though they could make it more visible, that’d be fine).
The problem is people who think that spending time gathering 3g worth of mats, crafting them into items and promptly selling those items for 2g are somehow making a profit off the TP.
The TP is working as intended. It’s being driven by supply and demand. It’s just that the supply of crafted items is primarily being filled by morons.
Yeah, that way they just lose 1g (more with taxes).
But if you gather those mats incidentally, by going around killing things through the normal course of the game, I wouldn’t say you’re selling at a loss, though admittedly it is less than you’d get selling the mats directly. Selling the mats directly wouldn’t have gotten me from 150 to 210 in Leatherworking yesterday, along with more than 2 levels of regular XP. So I’m pretty okay earning less for the finished products than I would if I’d sold all the mats as I got them.
But if you gather those mats incidentally, by going around killing things through the normal course of the game, I wouldn’t say you’re selling at a loss, though admittedly it is less than you’d get selling the mats directly. Selling the mats directly wouldn’t have gotten me from 150 to 210 in Leatherworking yesterday, along with more than 2 levels of regular XP. So I’m pretty okay earning less for the finished products than I would if I’d sold all the mats as I got them.
You just lost some monetary profit in exchange for XP.
For a crafter selling lower than materials cost is a loss, there is no way around that.
Also, if you are okay with selling at a lost, it doesn’t make crafting profitable.
The fees have nothing to do with why you can’t make money by crafting.
The reason is that there is no barrier to crafting; therefore, anyone who wants to can craft. Because of this, there are many times more people able to craft than the market can support. Why pay 4 gold for an exotic item when you can craft it yourself for 3 gold?
On the flip side, why spend the time and money to raise crafting when you can buy an exotic item for 3 gold AND sell the mats to make the same item for the same 3 gold?
Note: the amount of 3 gold was taken from the OP’s post. I’m aware that most exotic items sell for much less than that. The point is the same, regardless of the actual amounts. This is also the same reason why the mats to craft these things cost what they do. I.e., everyone wants to level crafting, so there is a demand for crafting mats.
Put succinctly, there is a larger demand for crafting mats alone than there is for crafted items that use those mats, and it is because there are many more people able to combine those mats than the market can support. It would not matter if the selling fee were 50%, 15%, 5%, or 0%. The issue with selling crafted items would be exactly the same.
Like I said in the first post, only comment if you would like this changed….I don’t understand why all of you are commenting. It’s a controversial topic and I think that the fees should be lowered. If you don’t agree just move on, no need to comment and tell me you disagree because that wasn’t the point of the post. All i’m saying is i would like to get a little bit of profit off maxing a crafting skill otherwise it is useless unless you intend to craft all your own gear. Once again if you don’t agree just move on.
Thanks.
Sorry dude, but you don’t get to proclaim that only people who agree with you are allowed to post in your thread.
jackpot.4503, I strongly suspect the devs put the crafting system into the game for the same reason they put their other systems into the game. So that people who want to play around with crafting because they enjoy it can do so, and won’t feel like they are sacrificing playing around with OTHER things because they will still earn XPs. If they had intended that people make a lot of gold crafting, they could fix that at any time by eliminating drops of gear, so you would have to buy crafted stuff from the TP, or learn to craft it yourself, neither of which is of interest to a lot of people. All the systems they have put in place, from Diminishing Returns on mob drops to how order stacks get processed on the TP with smallest first and largest last makes me think they want a game where (1) its very hard to earn a lot of gold quickly, and (2) you don’t need a lot of gold to do just fine at it, so #1 doesn’t matter much. Thus I think its going to be an uphill battle to get them to change anything to allow anyone to make gold more easily.
On your specific complaint, if the 15% trading fee was removed, what makes you think people wouldn’t start selling the Pearl Carver for a little under 3 gold? Your fundamental quarrel isn’t with the trading fee, its with other crafters willing to take a slight loss to mostly recoup their investment as they level Crafting and get XPs at the same time. That’s not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, its how other people are behaving, regardless of what either of us think.
But if you gather those mats incidentally, by going around killing things through the normal course of the game, I wouldn’t say you’re selling at a loss, though admittedly it is less than you’d get selling the mats directly. Selling the mats directly wouldn’t have gotten me from 150 to 210 in Leatherworking yesterday, along with more than 2 levels of regular XP. So I’m pretty okay earning less for the finished products than I would if I’d sold all the mats as I got them.
I 100% agree with you. Value doesn’t have to be only monetary. In this case you’re exchanging money for XP and Leatherworking skill. That’s legit. This is a crafting economy, so I fully expect that skillup items are going to be selling at a loss for the foreseeable future.
That being said, the actual problem is worse than people make out. People are selling items significantly below cost even for level 400 crafts. High demand consumables. In bulk, no less. This makes absolutely no sense. No amount of ‘well I farmed my own mats’ can make this make sense. Minerals you mine are not free.
In response to the OP, as others have said, changing the tax is not going to actually solve any problems. Making the tax more visible might, though with the current state of things I have my doubts.
Every-time an item changes hands on the TP it loses 15% of its value. Think about that for a second. We greatly encouraged NOT to exchange items between each other.
You save 15% on your armor by becoming your own armorsmith (or using your guild smith), you save 15% on your weapon by becoming your own weaponsmith. You also get ~10 levels per profession you take to 400. The combination of these means that it makes very little sense to use a crafter outside of your alts or your guild.
The trading post is for exchanging raw materials only. Buying materials off the TP for a combine and reposting the result will never be profitable because this tax. There is no convenience you could provide for another player that is worth a 15% markup just to break even.
Ultimately I think this tax is so high that even raw materials will eventually start to suffer as well. I really do think this tax will stifle the economy long term.
The only people who even really pay attention are 1) People who buy to resell. 2) Crafters who want to try to earn a margin.
Nobody buying armor on the TP is worried about 15%
The tax makes it almost impossible to make money and there is no justification for it.
We should stage a protest. Every player on each server should goto Lion’s Arch at 12pm gmt on Saturday – this will hopefully make the servers crash and make Anet sit up and take notice.
Valar Morghulis
(edited by Ephiny.9831)
Main problem is that due to the amount of people just dumping everything onto the TP at a few copper over the vendor price makes it impossible to sell anything for a profit.
It is just ridiculous at this point.
If you want to make a profit crafting, don’t buy all the materials on the trading post. Problem solved!
Except it is not, because gathering is not free.
But you can still cost the materials in 15% cheaper than if you buy them.
The tax makes it almost impossible to make money and there is no justification for it.
Actually, you already just explained a pretty good justification for it. If it’s too easy to make money, there will be too much money in circulation, which leads to rampant inflation and makes it impossible for new players to really use the market until they become suitably wealthy through other means.
We should stage a protest. Every player on each server should goto Lion’s Arch at 12pm gmt on Saturday – this will hopefully make the servers crash and make Anet sit up and take notice.
At which point they’re more likely to ban people for intentionally crashing the servers than they are to figure out that it’s due to someone complaining about the sales tax.
@Hippocampus.8470 There NEEDS to be more money in circulation, it costs 15g to make 5 exotic trinkets if you buy the materials from the Trading Post, it costs 100g to buy a Commander’s Manual. Things in this game cost insane amounts of money considering how hard it is to make money. Also to the people commenting above saying that I said remove the 15% fees for listing and selling, I didn’t mean remove I meant lower it.
Commander’s Manuals aren’t supposed to be easy to come by for just anyone. They’re supposed to be the sort of thing a guild might chip in to buy one of.
And inflation will be inevitable as people acquire gradually more money throughout the course of the game. Cash sinks serve to keep it to a manageable level.
The fees are not the problem. It is a combination of supply and demand; perceived value of the items compared to alternatives; and peoples lack of knowledge of cost or they simply don’t care about the cost. The problem is worse for everything that has a constant supply exceeds demand; as those items will never sell for even more than the vender value let alone for more than cost. Even if that cost were determined by the vender value of the materials needed to make the item plus the 15% total fees. That is at least as long as supply exceeds demand. So it is possible that the problem will correct itself. But then it might not. And in that case I’m not sure there is anything that can be done to change it. Aside from everyone understanding the costs, caring about costs, and abiding by some sort of set standard based on the costs. Which is easier said than done. Mainly because perceived value compared to the alternatives will influence that significantly. Because anything crafted that is general the same as the alternatives will be seen as equal value to and so the crafted stuff would be expected to have the same price (in gold and or time spent to obtain) as the alternatives.
On Adding more money
Assumptions made by those who suggest this is that once more money is in circulation, the price of the item they wanted to buy won’t change. The assumption is wrong. Increased money circulation will initially increase the purchasing power of players, in which they will use this new found wealth to bid up the price of high demand items. Price would increase, and eventually the purchasing power will remain the same.
On inflation
A person price the goods they buy or sell with expectation on future inflation. Under a stable inflation environment, the price will be stable. Under an environment where inflation is not controlled, this will cause price instability in the market increases market uncertainty…not a good thing.
On Fees’s impact on crafted goods
Fees only impact the cost of selling a crafted item…not buying them. Also, the equilibrium price of a crafted item (any item infact) is due to the supply and demand…fee plays a very very limited role in it. Even without fee, the price of a crafted item with plenty of supplier but little demand is still going to be low. People selling it under the cost to make it is not stupid…it’s because they can’t sell it at any higher price due to the number of sellers, and they had already gained the xp they needed from crafting it. The biggest impact of fees is that it discourages speculation…which benefits all players. The only way to make a profit in crafting is if Anet makes crafting harder and costlier so that only a small percentage of people reached lv400…or introduce some rare recipe drop.
TLDR: we need cash sink and fees to maintain market stability. Price of crafted items are determined by supply and demand, not by fees.