Guild Wars 2

juno.1840:

A gold cap would be a nice solution — it existed in GW1. It’s not so much a punishment as a limit to the amount of wealth you can accumulate in the system. It’s a safety net against loop holes, exploits, or other unforeseen consequences of game changes.

The number would be sufficiently high so if you hit the cap you are sufficiently wealthy to do whatever you want in the game. The limit exists to prevent a small number of players from doing something drastic in the economy. This something “drastic” might be something that is possible only after a future game change when the vast wealth could be applied in a devious way. This is really a theoretical discussion at this point, but you can imagine the possibilities.

A cap would be a last-line-of-defense in the game economy.

Except that it didn’t work at all in GW1. People just started using valuable crafting items as an alternate form of currency, which caused scamming to skyrocket.

I suppose a much much higher cap than in GW1 would be possible, but I don’t see the point. Anyone hording that much wealth is helping to fight against inflation since it is just sitting there not in circulation. If you put a cap on wealth they would liquidate and drive prices up for all the poorer people.

Brother Grimm.5176:

I have no doubt that Precursors can be possibly be cornered, but I challenge anyone to identify another item that can.

Frankly, Precursors should not be possible to trade on TP and ANet made a mistake allowing them to be. The problem is their extremely limited supply potential (due to only being available by MF or very low % drop. This very limited supply and being sellable on the TP is what makes them “controllable”.

I don’t think there are any other items that have such a high end-game demand, are TP salable and have a very limited source. Precursors are an anomoly on the TP and it looks like ANet is going to fix this by allowing them to be crafted. I still think they need to Account Bound them, but that will PO a lot of people currently seeking Legendary Weapons.

Agree with this 100% — it’s not possible to control the market on the TP with a pile of gold unless you can effectively gobble up all the supply, including new supply after the fact. The low-supply items on the TP are subject to this — but they also have to be items that have demand so you can purge all the supply you buy.

Precursors fit this bill, and the margin on them can be quite high. You don’t need to sell 1000’s to make a lot of money, just a few at a time will do.

Agreed that precursors and legendaries should probably be account bound, but not sure that really addresses the problem. In addition I don’t think ANet should bind every item that is rare (like precursors). It takes a bit of the fun out of the game.

One idea I’ve posted before was a time limit on “sell orders” on the TP. That makes it VERY difficult to control any market on the TP because you lose the 15% tax if your items don’t sell. You’re not going to post 100 precursors in that business model and hope to make money.

Goldcap? No Problem, I will just order 250 Twilight for 50g. KKTHXBYE

Zumy.6318:

Goldcap? No Problem, I will just order 250 Twilight for 50g. KKTHXBYE

lol — yeah this and the previous post about using materials like in GW1 (ecto piles). I take back my idea, it’s fruitless.

With regard to the time limit idea, all that would do is eliminate supply from the market. If you eliminate supply you drive up prices while simultaneously dramatically reducing the volume of trades (i.e. eliminating the main deflationary action in game). You’d be chaining inflation with low supply and probably end up bankrupting every player in the bottom 25% within a month.

guardiaN.1640:

and you think this isnt control.. after posting this i see i’ve made a mistake posting here, i’m out

Mostly because you have a difficulty making complete sentences. English might not be your first language, but don’t go into your second language arguing something you can’t back and then run away. It’s silly in any culture.

John Smith.4610:

Don’t believe everything you see, the 11k is probably real, but the other numbers simply aren’t.

You get golden in some way when you bank 200 gold.
Why not more titles that you can achieve the more you bank.
Keep it even simple and just add a number after Golden on every 200er step like:
Golden 400
Golden 11000
Golden 310200
Would be a nice way to show off, if you are that type of player. Just expect no sympathy from other players if you decide to do so.

Korsbaek.9803:

first of wiki is not a good source to refore to;)
2nd if you look trough the law a monopol is legal heck there are a few in us right now;)
example apple is the only one allowed to make any apple product and sell it so i cant make a iphone and go sell it but that means they have a monopol on iphones but hey thats illegal is it not? nope its not
3th. its illegal to make a monopol by forcing our oppenets out of business but thats a diffrent story and thats not what we are discusing right now.
4th sources are very importent to remember to check: wiki is the worst of the worst to use for source info as anyone can correct/change it as they see fit

a little off topic, but I don’t just make this stuff up. Here is the actual U.S. statute.

I acknowledge that I know very little about antitrust or securities law (I’m sure many people here know a lot more). But I think there’s a different between a monopoly and cornering the market for a commodity.

For example, it’s perfectly legal to obtain a monopoly because your product is so good that everyone wants to buy it (called, I believe, a natural monopoly). But it’s illegal to use that monopoly power to try to obtain a monopoly in another area (for example, Microsoft cannot use the market power of windows to obtain a monopoly in the internet browser space).

However, this is fundamentally different from “pump and dump” or trying to corner the market on orange juice or pork bellies.

LordByron.8369:

John Smith.4610:

Don’t believe everything you see, the 11k is probably real, but the other numbers simply aren’t.

can any player get near that sum, without flipping the tp?

If the answer is no, don t you see something wrong with that?

Like yourself; I would rather play a game were the most skilled warriors are the wealthiest rather than the day traders who play spreadsheets.

In a game where every thing you do in the outside world fills your inventory with a bunch of junk; I suppose a trading post where people can buy and sell junk makes sense.

Calae.1738:

Like yourself; I would rather play a game were the most skilled warriors are the wealthiest rather than the day traders who play spreadsheets.

The only time the “most skilled warriors” are the wealthiest members of a given society is when those warriors kill people and take their wealth. Since GW2 doesn’t allow player killing or taking of a player’s inventory, your ideal anarchy state isn’t feasible (or desireable, really).

You see, there is very little economic value to killing. In fact, I would argue that it normally results in a net economic loss since killers produce nothing of value and are essentially “stealing” to survive. By killing producers, the killers harm the economy as a whole.

mtpelion.4562:

Calae.1738:

Like yourself; I would rather play a game were the most skilled warriors are the wealthiest rather than the day traders who play spreadsheets.

The only time the “most skilled warriors” are the wealthiest members of a given society is when those warriors kill people and take their wealth. Since GW2 doesn’t allow player killing or taking of a player’s inventory, your ideal anarchy state isn’t feasible (or desireable, really).

You see, there is very little economic value to killing. In fact, I would argue that it normally results in a net economic loss since killers produce nothing of value and are essentially “stealing” to survive. By killing producers, the killers harm the economy as a whole.

Sure, if you view GW2 as a model for real life (which apparently some do.) Trading and being the middle man always produces more money that being a producer. But, of course, this is a game, where the normal rules of society do not necessarily apply.

There will be no change to the TP, there will be no change to the way you all make your money, but that doesn’t mean that other players who play this game like it.

This is a fantasy world that many people use as a form of escapism. One suspects that it’s possible to create a system where there is an increased value to production rather than the TP.

For example,

1. No TP. Everything has a sale fixed value and a fixed cost.

2. if GW2 were to implement a direct trading system where people didn’t have to worry about getting scammed then the producer could sell directly to the consumer and you’d probably see less profit come out of flipping.

Note, this is also reflected in real life as scamming is illegal and results in a prision sentence. But, in Gw2 there is no penalty for such scamming.

Edit: I don’t necessary advocate any of these changes, I’m just saying that having the best source of profit be from flipping is a design decision and not a foregone conclusion.

mtpelion.4562:

Calae.1738:

Like yourself; I would rather play a game were the most skilled warriors are the wealthiest rather than the day traders who play spreadsheets.

The only time the “most skilled warriors” are the wealthiest members of a given society is when those warriors kill people and take their wealth. Since GW2 doesn’t allow player killing or taking of a player’s inventory, your ideal anarchy state isn’t feasible (or desireable, really).

You see, there is very little economic value to killing. In fact, I would argue that it normally results in a net economic loss since killers produce nothing of value and are essentially “stealing” to survive. By killing producers, the killers harm the economy as a whole.

I look at it like a racing game.

Would you provide the most wealth to the best car drivers or a bunch of mediocre drivers buying and selling beer and hot-dogs?

Calae.1738:

mtpelion.4562:

Calae.1738:

Like yourself; I would rather play a game were the most skilled warriors are the wealthiest rather than the day traders who play spreadsheets.

The only time the “most skilled warriors” are the wealthiest members of a given society is when those warriors kill people and take their wealth. Since GW2 doesn’t allow player killing or taking of a player’s inventory, your ideal anarchy state isn’t feasible (or desireable, really).

You see, there is very little economic value to killing. In fact, I would argue that it normally results in a net economic loss since killers produce nothing of value and are essentially “stealing” to survive. By killing producers, the killers harm the economy as a whole.

I look at it like a racing game.

Would you provide the most wealth to the best car drivers or a bunch of mediocre drivers buying and selling beer and hot-dogs?

I’ll take the beer and hot-dogs mmmmm

Calae.1738:

I look at it like a racing game.

Would you provide the most wealth to the best car drivers or a bunch of mediocre drivers buying and selling beer and hot-dogs?

The guy who owns the car makes more money than the driver by selling ad space on the car, and the companies buying ad space make more money than the driver from the customers that see the ads.

Sports stars make more money shilling products than they do playing the game.

You’re not going to change human nature. Anet, however, set the barriers very low in this game, 99% of the game can be accessed by any casual player and you can outfit a toon in exotic gear for karma, wvwvw badges, and a small amount of gold. The fancy skins and the desire to have them are purely a result of human nature, and the prices they sell for on the TP is a result of the demand for them. This is not going to change.

Don’t try to drink champagne on a beer drinker’s paycheck. Feel free to keep complaining, one day I’m sure someone will listen.

LordByron.8369:

John Smith.4610:

Don’t believe everything you see, the 11k is probably real, but the other numbers simply aren’t.

can any player get near that sum, without flipping the tp?

If the answer is no, don t you see something wrong with that?

If they could, then the player flipping the TP would have way more. I don’t know why people never seem to understand that concept.

The reason flipping the TP is so profitable is twofold: It is a boring thing that most people do not want to do, and people are impatient or indifferent and sell their drops for considerably less than they could get for them. (That’s a bit of an oversimplification, but that’s the gist of it.) It has nothing to do with how much loot drops off of enemies. No matter what drops off of enemies, traders will always be making more, unless the trading system is so punitive or otherwise frustrating that nobody even wants to bother with it.

i just do one flip, i was able to get to 1.2k in 2 + months. I was in hiatus for good 6 months after, quit the game about 1 or 2 months in.

It isn’t hard, to be honest if I look hard enough there are probably other pockets of opportunities… but meh I think it is enough

tolunart.2095:

Calae.1738:

I look at it like a racing game.

Would you provide the most wealth to the best car drivers or a bunch of mediocre drivers buying and selling beer and hot-dogs?

The guy who owns the car makes more money than the driver by selling ad space on the car, and the companies buying ad space make more money than the driver from the customers that see the ads.

Sports stars make more money shilling products than they do playing the game.

You’re not going to change human nature. Anet, however, set the barriers very low in this game, 99% of the game can be accessed by any casual player and you can outfit a toon in exotic gear for karma, wvwvw badges, and a small amount of gold. The fancy skins and the desire to have them are purely a result of human nature, and the prices they sell for on the TP is a result of the demand for them. This is not going to change.

Don’t try to drink champagne on a beer drinker’s paycheck. Feel free to keep complaining, one day I’m sure someone will listen.

That’s why I made the statement earlier that in the world of GW2 your inventory tends to fill up with a bunch of virtual junk. A trading post where players can buy and sell virtual junk makes sense.

If the junk was removed the players would have to earn “whatever” through actual game play mechanics rather than clicking a stupid spreadsheet.

That was my point anyway.

Calae.1738:

That’s why I made the statement earlier that in the world of GW2 your inventory tends to fill up with a bunch of virtual junk. A trading post where players can buy and sell virtual junk makes sense.

If the junk was removed the players would have to earn “whatever” through actual game play mechanics rather than clicking a stupid spreadsheet.

That was my point anyway.

At that point there would also be no reason to have any money since you wouldn’t be able to buy anything. That “junk” is the only reason people need money in the first place.

mtpelion.4562:

Calae.1738:

That’s why I made the statement earlier that in the world of GW2 your inventory tends to fill up with a bunch of virtual junk. A trading post where players can buy and sell virtual junk makes sense.

If the junk was removed the players would have to earn “whatever” through actual game play mechanics rather than clicking a stupid spreadsheet.

That was my point anyway.

At that point there would also be no reason to have any money since you wouldn’t be able to buy anything. That “junk” is the only reason people need money in the first place.

You can buy and sell things and still have currency even if you couldn’t trade things or currency with anyone else. The trading game is just a market economy. A game within a game so to speak.

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of any “junk” that exists in the game. Everything I have collected can be equipped, turned in during a DE, sold for coin, broken into crafting mats, or tossed into the MF to get something else. What items, specifically, are useless?

TooBz.3065:

2. if GW2 were to implement a direct trading system where people didn’t have to worry about getting scammed then the producer could sell directly to the consumer and you’d probably see less profit come out of flipping.

Without a trading post the fraction of wealth siphoned off by traders would dwarf what you currently see in game.

Ensign.2189:

TooBz.3065:

2. if GW2 were to implement a direct trading system where people didn’t have to worry about getting scammed then the producer could sell directly to the consumer and you’d probably see less profit come out of flipping.

Without a trading post the fraction of wealth siphoned off by traders would dwarf what you currently see in game.

Can you explain why? And I’m not saying no trading post, just that there be a trading post and also another outlet where, if people are unhappy with the pricing they can go elsewhere. (Again, not advocating, just saying that the system we operate in is not the only potential system out there)

TooBz.3065:

Ensign.2189:

TooBz.3065:

2. if GW2 were to implement a direct trading system where people didn’t have to worry about getting scammed then the producer could sell directly to the consumer and you’d probably see less profit come out of flipping.

Without a trading post the fraction of wealth siphoned off by traders would dwarf what you currently see in game.

Can you explain why? And I’m not saying no trading post, just that there be a trading post and also another outlet where, if people are unhappy with the pricing they can go elsewhere. (Again, not advocating, just saying that the system we operate in is not the only potential system out there)

it is the most fair system. fair to the buyer and fair to the seller. People always forget the seller in the equation.

Signet of Forums.4397:

LordByron.8369:

John Smith.4610:

Don’t believe everything you see, the 11k is probably real, but the other numbers simply aren’t.

can any player get near that sum, without flipping the tp?

If the answer is no, don t you see something wrong with that?

If they could, then the player flipping the TP would have way more. I don’t know why people never seem to understand that concept.

The reason flipping the TP is so profitable is twofold: It is a boring thing that most people do not want to do, and people are impatient or indifferent and sell their drops for considerably less than they could get for them. (That’s a bit of an oversimplification, but that’s the gist of it.) It has nothing to do with how much loot drops off of enemies. No matter what drops off of enemies, traders will always be making more, unless the trading system is so punitive or otherwise frustrating that nobody even wants to bother with it.

Sorry i thougt the game was called guild wars and not Fantasy Market Manager 2

They HAVE to combat flippers with any weapon they have and there are a lot actually.
Something they are doing but still too softly.

COnsidering players have no way to combat market flippers, the easy way is Always put HUGE amount of resources when they get too expensive.

And that expecially in order to randomize more market.
A random market with HIGH risk and low reward is not profitable for flippers.

As its now the reward are too high compared to anything other in the game and if they nerf BORING stuff like dungeon farming, they should do the same with market flipping.

LordByron.8369:

Sorry i thougt the game was called guild wars and not Fantasy Market Manager 2

Last I checked, my guild can’t go to war with any other guild so I’m not sure what your point is.

mtpelion.4562:

Last I checked, my guild can’t go to war with any other guild so I’m not sure what your point is.

I don’t think you’ve heard about the cut-throat corporate competition that went on between King Doric and his contemporaries.

mtpelion.4562:

LordByron.8369:

Sorry i thougt the game was called guild wars and not Fantasy Market Manager 2

Last I checked, my guild can’t go to war with any other guild so I’m not sure what your point is.

Know your Guild Wars lore – The Guild Wars

Ursan.7846:

mtpelion.4562:

Last I checked, my guild can’t go to war with any other guild so I’m not sure what your point is.

I don’t think you’ve heard about the cut-throat corporate competition that went on between King Doric and his contemporaries.

I heard about it, but that’s only because it happened well outside of the first game’s timeline.

My point of course being that the title of the game is almost 100% irrelevant as far as the playstyle is concerned. They could have called it “Dragon Stabby Game (with Tree People!)” and it wouldn’t have mattered.

mtpelion.4562:

LordByron.8369:

Sorry i thougt the game was called guild wars and not Fantasy Market Manager 2

Last I checked, my guild can’t go to war with any other guild so I’m not sure what your point is.

because you only play TP and don t go to www maybe.

Current www is mostly managed by guilds.
At least in organized servers.

your point is superficial and useless mostly because NOBODY that sees this game on youtube, or elsewhere would think this is a market management game.

Thus that being the most rewarding activity in the game by a HUGE margin, is plain wrong.

As its wrong this discussion is in TP section because its a discussion that involve most players that will never come here.

mtpelion.4562:

I heard about it, but that’s only because it happened well outside of the first game’s timeline.

I was being completely sarcastic in order to poke fun at Lord Byron’s “Fantasy Market Manager 2” title.

Ok… it looks like my point isn’t clear enough. Allow me to elucidate:

The game is called “Guild Wars” after a fictional historical event. It is not ABOUT the Guild Wars, nor is the playstyle of the game guilds at war.

Playing the market is no less valid of a playstyle simply because “Black Lion Trading Company” is not in the title, just as running fractals is not a valid playstyle simply because “Fractals of the Mists” is not in the title.

Better?

EDIT:

I was being completely sarcastic in order to poke fun at Lord Byron’s “Fantasy Market Manager 2” title.

You know, I thought it was a bid odd that you of all people would have said that. I didn’t pick up on the sarcasm it seems.

LordByron.8369:

Signet of Forums.4397:

LordByron.8369:

John Smith.4610:

Don’t believe everything you see, the 11k is probably real, but the other numbers simply aren’t.

can any player get near that sum, without flipping the tp?

If the answer is no, don t you see something wrong with that?

If they could, then the player flipping the TP would have way more. I don’t know why people never seem to understand that concept.

The reason flipping the TP is so profitable is twofold: It is a boring thing that most people do not want to do, and people are impatient or indifferent and sell their drops for considerably less than they could get for them. (That’s a bit of an oversimplification, but that’s the gist of it.) It has nothing to do with how much loot drops off of enemies. No matter what drops off of enemies, traders will always be making more, unless the trading system is so punitive or otherwise frustrating that nobody even wants to bother with it.

Sorry i thougt the game was called guild wars and not Fantasy Market Manager 2

They HAVE to combat flippers with any weapon they have and there are a lot actually.
Something they are doing but still too softly.

COnsidering players have no way to combat market flippers, the easy way is Always put HUGE amount of resources when they get too expensive.

And that expecially in order to randomize more market.
A random market with HIGH risk and low reward is not profitable for flippers.

As its now the reward are too high compared to anything other in the game and if they nerf BORING stuff like dungeon farming, they should do the same with market flipping.

If an item drops and I sell it for a price that is 85% or more of whatever a “flipper” is selling it for, then they cannot make money by buying it and reselling it at that price. This idea that flippers are controlling the market is fantasy, and the reason it is fantasy is that unlike in the real world, commodities (except for temporary event items) are unlimited and they can randomly drop for anyone.

If someone is selling some item on the trading post, and someone else undercuts them by 5%, they do not make money by buying out that item; they lose money, and the reason is that altogether there is a 15% fee for selling something on the trading post.

What you seem to be actually annoyed by, though perhaps without realizing it, is that items are not selling for far below their “actual” value (what the highest bidders (who aren’t buying to resell) are willing to pay for them), because some people recognize what people are actually willing to pay and capitalize off of other people’s mistakes – and yes, they are mistakes. People are not selling stuff on the trading post for less than what they could get out of generosity, in most cases.

Now if you want to say that the method by which precursors are introduced into the game to begin with is bad then with that I agree (and it is something they are going to be addressing), but people’s ability to play the TP has little to do with it.

I see these same arguments made in virtually every game that has a trading post / auction house. The reason it is profitable is that people list stuff for less than its market value, as evidenced by the mere fact that, despite the 15% listing and sales fees, it even is profitable.

Yeni.3507:

mtpelion.4562:

LordByron.8369:

Sorry i thougt the game was called guild wars and not Fantasy Market Manager 2

Last I checked, my guild can’t go to war with any other guild so I’m not sure what your point is.

Know your Guild Wars lore – The Guild Wars

Yes, they shoehorned in bit of lore to justify the name of a game that was originally just going to be PvP.

Necro post due to it’s relevancy as a high ranking google result

There is no way to put a wealth limit and any attempts only cause suffering for those without wealth e.g. instead of having gold the rich start hoarding good items which reduces supply and drives the price up and takes those items further out of reach of those trying to afford them. I love economics, considering starting a Ph.D in Economics/Econometrics next year.

The only way to get ‘rich’ I have seen in game economies is to ‘play’ the trading post equivalent type systems. To get rich one cannot trade time for currency. One simply does not have enough time. I have accumulated currency in games that would take a person numerous lifetimes to ‘grind’. You need to find a different trade-off such as the trading post allows you to significantly reduce the time required and make money while you aren’t even online. Then you make an average % of your as wealth repetitively with an obvious diminishing returns as the more wealth you have the lower that % gets.

In previous games I have seen an optimal 15% profit margin per flip of entire wealth dropping down to about 5% as you get quite wealthy and as you get super rich it can drop as low as 1%. But by then that 1% will be more than most people ever have in a single day.

Wealth is possible, wealth is generally fundamentally easy these days with the amount of information you can find on threads and and YouTube which didn’t exist when I made my wealth, only good old excel spreadsheets. The only reason why some get rich and others don’t is because people are lazy and want everything for nothing. I read and worked and calculated and recorded and never spent more than half of the net profit I made so my base wealth always grew. People would follow me and nag me for my wealth and I never gave anyone a single cent but I did give them something of much greater value. I offered to teach anyone how to make the riches just as I did. I even spoon fed them exact items and buy sell prices and all the tricks of said system. Then when they understood how it all worked I let them go and do it for themselves. When I messaged them a week later do you think any of them stuck to it? Nope.

Poor = Lazy
Rich = Committed

I only started Guild wars 2 not long ago getting an 80 warrior in 6 days and I got my guardian to level 32 on day 1 and I can’t wait to come and dominate your economy. Made 6g playing the trading post in the first couple hours. I actually found this thread googling how much the richest players have so I can set myself a goal to beat.

So if you’re poor, now you know why.

TP Barons beware! Here comes a new challenger!

Well not only they aren t even trying to stop this mess.
But also they are pushing TP flipping.

Inflation? look at ANY expensive good.
Its out of reach of almost any non TP flipper, while its a week of work for any flipper or game economy abuser of any kind.

There are MANY way to fight speculation.

people attempt to control a resource?
Flood the market with it and show them there is actually SOME risk.

Crystalline dust docet…..unfortunately was the ONLY time……

I really hope to see nodes of gossamer/linen/cotton appearing soon.

@shark…you are commited to a MINI game…not to the game itself.
A game totally unbalanced.
For what i saw many “rich” players have issue completing AC 3…..or cof1

It’s not just TP flipping. It’s also taking advantage of things like ember farming when they arise + doing TP orders while doing stuffs like that.

Ascended armor will be coming out soon, and ascended jewelcrafting at some point after that. Just be smart and think about what will be coming and invest early. Personally I’m relieved because I’ll finally be able to play some alts which have been stocked to the max + personal guild bank (2 tabs) + personal bank full of cloth.

Also go invest in popular time limited items. They always go up. It’s really not rocket science.

As far as rich players being bad in game… I agree in general tbh. However there are some rich players that have made a lot of gold because the game mode they play (wvw/pvp) isn’t that financially rewarding. Some of them are very good at what they do. Some PvE speedclear groups are rich and very good as well. At the same time, when I see some one with twilight running around in EB… I just see a free lootbag with legs.

Shark.8513:

Poor = Lazy
Rich = Committed

Poor = people who actually play the game
Rich = people who do not or the few who just get lucky all the time

Good job broski.

Aberrant.6749:

Some PvE speedclear groups are rich and very good as well. At the same time, when I see some one with twilight running around in EB… I just see a free lootbag with legs.

trust me ….no speedclear player can get nearly as rich as a TP flipper….
TP has really ridicolous margins and is subject to manipulations and artificial scarcity.

They can get 100% margins expecially when some dev suggests them to invest in ascended crafting materials to resell later -.-

So “normal” players will have their expenses doubled…..

Ill take John Smith at his word about the 300k+ gold. 11k gold im jelly(in a good way) but if a player has amassed gold into six digits something is clearly wrong with the game whether you think so or not.

It is probably safe to say the Trading Post, while a nice thing in the beginning, has proven to be broken due to people gaining mass amounts of gold with hardly any risk. Sites like GW2 spidey dont exactly help and neither does Anet giving tips before a patch goes live.

GW1 had many people that were rich beyond belief and they didn’t stop there, they created false supply shortages with rare weapons that did not drop anymore… now look at the molten jetpack on the tp. It went from 100g-5/600g in about 2 weeks. A single player can not influence markets but a group of players most definitely can if the supply was low enough from the beginning.

This is why you never introduce limited time items that can be sold from player to player. You would think Anet would learn a lesson from the asian minipets from GW1.

would love to know if someone is in 3 digit k gold. I know several people in game and guild who have easily over 10k. I still think this is a clear minority but it’s not impossible to get that much.

LordByron.8369:

They can get 100% margins expecially when some dev suggests them to invest in ascended crafting materials to resell later -.-

So “normal” players will have their expenses doubled…..

Ok, now you’ve gone one bridge too far.
“The devs” informed everyone, using every communication channel available to them. They did not do it to “tip off” the flippers. No. “Flippers” did not need any help in that department, because what “the devs” said was beyond obvious. What happened was that the devs informed those that did not know so as to best level the playing field.

I’d also like to point out that the “speedclearers” you speak of have a choice: sell the materials they get or save them for later (for example, because “the devs” told them these would become valuable). They generate the materials on the TP, no “flipper” can do that. The “flipper” can only react in that sense, his/her actions are bound by, or are the result of – the actions of those that generate the materials. For example, I’m always amazed when people decide to sell an exotic, event-based temporary recipe for 3 copper and later turn around and accuse the “flippers” that selling it for 3 copper was a bad decision. This goes two ways, don’t blame everything on the “flipper”, who in the latter scenario probably had to reserve several bank spots for those recipes for a period of 6 months before the recipe in question became profitable (with the risk that it would still be worth only 3 copper after 6 months).

In this debate, don’t just take any argument and twist it in your favor. There are reasonable arguments to be made; this is not one of them. Quite the contrary, in fact.

I didn t say that they are making player favoritisms

But my personal impression is they are making a minigame favoritism.
(sorry if my english is not clear)

A minigame that never get nerfed despite generating 10X income of anything else.

We all know TP is totally unbalanced as risk/reward….
We need several actions like the crystalline dust change….

Buttercup.5871:

In this debate, don’t just take any argument and twist it in your favor. There are reasonable arguments to be made; this is not one of them. Quite the contrary, in fact.

TP related problems impacting non TP flippers should be discussed in general section…

Unfortunately being here, Its like discussing stealth in thieves forum …..

LordByron.8369:

We all know TP is totally unbalanced as risk/reward….
We need several actions like the crystalline dust change….

[…]

TP related problems impacting non TP flippers should be discussed in general section…
Unfortunately being here, Its like discussing stealth in thieves forum …..

You’d be surprised how many people are willing to listen to reason when they see it and I do believe you’re in the right section for this discussion. I’d merely like to point out that the crystalline dust action was a fix to a widely recognized problem. Thus far, other than the empyreal fragments/dragonite ore availability (or lack thereof) I have yet to hear complaints about the availability of materials required for ascended crafting. Even when it concerns gossamer; you must have gathered at least a stack playing the game normally the last months. If you then sold it cheap knowing full well what was coming (ascended crafting), that’s entirely on you.

How should i reply to this?

Should i post a long and boring list of threads you can get to by yourself?
They are on top of section like crafting, and general…..

Its not that you see price spikes of 200% or even 2000% based on datamining before 99% players even get the news…….

We should debate wich thing makes gold more worthless…

Flippers or supply?
For rare and popular items i bet flippers….
The main point is we shouldn t even debate what s worst….

We need flipping to be regulated and another MORE FAIR gold sink to take its place….
The current one is just making few players rich while inflating gold value for Others…….

And thus it makes this game more grindy that it should be.

I don’t disagree with your feeling that playing PvE/WvW content and playing the TP is out of sync. I just disagree with the arguments made in support, as well as the conclusion.

I think that instead of limiting the TP, we should first look at limiting DR and increasing reward-based gameplay. I only reverted to the TP when I saw that the more I played, the less the game rewarded me. That’s bad; that’s the part that needs to be addressed. It’s at the core of the frustration of those that don’t want to use the TP to obtain coin. The only reason I’m on the TP is to avoid having to grind myself to pieces in order to obtain what I want.

Buttercup.5871:

The only reason I’m on the TP is to avoid having to grind myself to pieces in order to obtain what I want.

i hope you realize that comes at other player cost……
Possibly you will find some excuse….but your fun comes at other players fun expenses….

LordByron.8369:

i hope you realize that comes at other player cost……
Possibly you will find some excuse….but your fun comes at other players fun expenses….

This is an incorrect statement.

When you buy something on the TP, your convenience comes at your own cost and rewards the other player (the person who is selling).

Your fun (a quick buy) rewards their fun (farming, tp flipping, etc.).

LordByron.8369:

Buttercup.5871:

The only reason I’m on the TP is to avoid having to grind myself to pieces in order to obtain what I want.

i hope you realize that comes at other player cost……
Possibly you will find some excuse….but your fun comes at other players fun expenses….

You were doing so much better, and now you start being unreasonable again I’m not forcing anyone to sell stuff to me. In fact, I sometimes lose money on the transaction because prices tank to rock bottom. Those who sell items on the TP are not the “victims” you make them out to be. That is just a really bad argument, which only works counter-productive. Again, there are plenty of “traders” that believe in your cause, but being unreasonable is not the way to get anyone’s support.

And please read my post before responding, as I did with yours. You’d have noticed that I did not enter the TP game because it’s so much fun, I came there because the alternative – grinding an uphill battle against DR – is worse. I’d rather use my brain and get rewarded for it than get frustrated over my horrible luck in getting any kind of decent drop. Even now, with ~160 magic find, my drops are horribad. So, instead of complaining, I worked on getting decent at being somewhat of a trader (although I’m a dwarf compared to most), which improved my gaming experience. I now can just enjoy playing the game without getting frustrated over my horrible luck. I can even enjoy the TP game now, it’s relaxing in a way.

Buttercup.5871:

You were doing so much better, and now you start being unreasonable again

I can t say the same about you….i see a purpose to confound….or to convince yourself.
Note that im not judging YOU…only your posts….

In fact, I sometimes lose money on the transaction

Risk/reward the base of any game
Totally unbalanced here……

The issue is the inflation caused by FALSE scarcity created by flippers.

They balance and nerf anything in the rest of te game not respecting their view of risk/reward….

With the only exception of TP the omst broken of them all

So a lvl 80 FOTM player get slapped in the face while a TP flipper get each patch more rewards via rumors and patchnotes before release….

And please read my post before responding, as I did with yours. You’d have noticed that I did not enter the TP game because it’s so much fun, I came there because the alternative – grinding an uphill battle against DR

As i said you get your money at other players costs….its not a personal attack….its what any non flipping player will tell you if you say in game you flip market…

Also they will probably rightfully dislike you for that…..
As many people dislike me in this section

is worse. I’d rather use my brain and get rewarded for it than get frustrated over my horrible luck

That would be nice IF
This was a game based on economy and not Killing stuff
And if the flipping stuff wasn t free pvp against anyone not wanting to participate…..

We don t have alternatives to TP…..like for example NPC vendors for materials….

I don t want to be forced to play a PvP minigame in order to get access to the main game…..