CDI- Character Progression-Horizontal
- 25 damaging condition stack cap per attacker and not per monster attacked. All damage condition builds are useless in pve unless you solo or do in two people tops. Again killing horizontal progression that is already there, just unchain it from the floor.
This would be a game changer for many classes. Now it’s like get one necro per party and he will do all bleeds. You can’t go for condi warrior or ranger or even mesmer, because you will just damage the way party operates…
Region Achievement lines
…
- Cheaper waypoint costs within the region
- Cheaper merchants
- Region exclusive titles
- Armor sets
- Cheaper waypoints within a zone
- Free waypoints within a zone
- Different dialog from npc’s when reaching certain tiers. ie being addressed with more respect for one.
- Final tier titles something along the line of: conqueror of orr, protector of kryta, sentinel of meguuma.
I would say those are excellent ides, but I have a request in here.
If you will do it, please plan some way of rewarding people who already spend a lot of time in those zones.
I have 7 characters that have over 90% of the world map done.
If you now introduce a reason for me to run around the map with nothing to do on those maps, because I already finished them on all those characters I will be really disappointed.
I guess most people who unlocked major chunk of maps will.
So please make it like a reason to visit map if you haven’t done it, but if you did, allow it to be obtainable will little effort, since you already put your effort in there.
For those who want new skills/weapons — that works in the short term to keep the game fresh, but it’s not sustainable. If you keep adding skills, balance becomes a nightmare (Anet’s already having a terrible time of it right now).
How do you propose they Anet deals with this?
They did it with Gw1, and are probably better at now
[awkward cough] Skill bloat was one of the main reasons production on GW1 had to be stopped.
I want more skills and weapons as much as the next guy, but just a few, and they don’t have to come right away.
Not really.
Profession development – specifically, the commitment to introduce two new professions every installment – was a bigger factor. Having to come up with two new professions every six months that were distinct in aesthetics and playstyle from the existing ones, balanced, fit within the engine, and that weren’t simply immersion-breakingly silly is something that was bound to cause an increasing amount of strain as time went on, and as more and more of the good ideas had already been used. New professions was also a large source of skill bloat, as each new profession of course needed a reasonable set of skills to support it – however, skill bloat was largely a secondary issue.
Both, though, could have been easily resolved just by expressing that they’d realised that introducing two new professions and over a hundred new skills every six months was unsustainable, and continued making content chapters for GW1 with a more modest rate of skill and profession introduction (with the spare capacity going towards balancing the existing skills).
The main reason was, simply, that they wanted to do things that weren’t practical to do with the GW1 system.
Now, they certainly took the opportunity of a new launch to make sure they didn’t create another bloated skill system, and this in itself is laudable – however, there’s a large grey area between adding somewhere between five hundred to a thousand new skills in a year – as GW1 did in 2006 – and the nine we’ve received in 2013. I think they can definitely afford to cautiously pick up the pace without it suddenly becoming a two-thousand-skill mess where it is impossible to keep every skill balanced while still being relevant.
Now, I would certainly expect a bit of caution – certainly, I would advice against ArenaNet having quotas that they’re trying to keep like they did with GW1, and I would expect that as the skill field gets better than there’d be a need to focus more on balancing than on introducing new skills.
On the other hand, though, I think being willing to introduce new skills and traits at a measured rate will make balancing easier in some ways. For instance, some of the trait reshuffling really makes it look a bit like they’ve got more traits that really belong in a particular category than there are slots in that category, and essentially they’re finding the least bad trait to bump up or down a category – being willing to expand the trait lists, however, would mean they aren’t bound to the current 6/4/2 array. Conversely, an effective way to pare down something that’s too strong is to introduce a hard or soft counter to it – simple to do if you just add more skills, more challenging if you have to twist or overwrite an existing skill into the role.
The key word in all this, though, is moderation. Too much and you get skill bloat, too little and the skill system starts to get stale – and at the moment, I think we’re at the latter end of the scale.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
1) weapon/armor skin locker. The current transmog system is terrible and clunky. It should be very easy for me to switch around looks and it just isn’t.
The idea that I like is to make it part of ascended gear so people could use ascended gear like upgradeable gear.
It costs a lot and then you spend time to upgrade it with new looks, new stat combos and all that you want/need.
It would allow it to be kinda like limited legendary item that you can spend time on to upgrade it.
It would show nice goals for many people to make. instead of going for legendary grind, they would go for some challenges or some other options to play to upgrade their items.
WAAAHOOOOO!!!! It finally started.
- I would like to have 20-40 new skills for each class. Each class already has 40-60 skills counting weapons, so that would be 80-100 total skills to choose from. I think this would be a fun, TCG-esque system.
- To help accomplish this, I would like PvE skills to be separate from WvW/PvP. This would allow us to go crazy with our builds, and you would still have WvW to help players transition to the PvP skill-set. I don’t think this would cause balance problems because certain skills are already more useful than others; such as reflects, condition-removal, and Warrior’s banners.
- In order to do this, PvE difficulty needs to be raised. ArenaNet has been making progress on this but the game still isn’t there yet. Currently in PvE, it feels like your build doesn’t matter because content is easy, and hence any new skills added would seem somewhat pointless.
TL;DR:
(1) Rollout 20-40 new skills for each class.
(2) Separate PvE from PvP/WvW so these skills can be as fun as possible.
(3) Make PvE more challenging so our build choices matter.EDIT: As an afterthought, I think the most challenging aspect of this suggestion is,“How does everyone unlock the new skills.” Every character already has loads of extra skill points so you would unlock the new skills instantly. Does anyone have any Thoughts/Suggestions on this?
Yes! Yes! and YES!
-I love all of this. As far as suggestions to unlock the skills? Quests! Have skills taught to us by mysterious gurus of the profession that require us to do “training” to earn the privilege to learn the secret techniques!
(Basically, just create some unique Skill Point Challenges) =D
It would be another time consuming difficult PvE activity to do that’s completely different than dungeons, and it lets players enjoy all of the zones in new and exciting instanced ways.
as if the open world zones would be too populated nowadays, we need a new instanced version. No thank you. Better find other ways to add Hard Mode to the game but not instanced
Yeah, that was sort of my biggest concern with it as well, which is why I stated in that same post:
“The biggest problem I see with this though, is that it would prevent players from spending time in the real zones, which is already a goal of Anet.”
:)
I would say rewamping zones and adding to them is important. I already wrote that I love the idea of regional achievements, but new zones should be really a priority. It’s just because many people like me feel like suffocating when we run the same zones over and over again and for half of the year I had to revisit almost all of them to do some LS that forced me to repeat the same things on various maps.
So I would say new zones, them please add some regional achievements so we have something fresh and some new things to do in spare time if we want. Not like “it’s the only thing you will get so zones can be reused”, I think we all are past that.
Profession Switching – The ability for a single character to level up and manage the ability to play as any profession.
This feature would be managed by the multiple profession retainers that currently only serve to reset a specific profession’s trait points. Now all profession trainers would be allowed to enable a main lv80 character to swap and undergo training under a new profession.
Unlike race, a profession is something learned by skill and not bound by birth. A character upon reaching level 80 would be able to visit another profession trait retainer and undergo the ability of profession swapping. A Lv80 Warrior can switch to a Lv1 Necromancer. Leveled professions are saved and players could make profession swap with a reasonable cost of skill point and coin trade in.
This type of thing is met with mixed feelings. I personally feel it might actually fit somewhat well with the GW universe(considering NPC’s have been swapping professions since the days of GW1), but I know that there’s quite a bit of players that might be kitten ed off about it(due to leveling all their alts to 80 so they could have those professions at max level) and some might even go as far as to say that it would be the final peg needed to prove how alt friendly this game can/could be.
I believe you got this idea from FFXIV, since that’s how that game works currently. Its a neat feature, but they have bonus’ in that game if you do hit level cap for alt’s. It’s a confusing a new term to those that have played regular mmo’s. It would be nice but I feel that the population would be a few on board, a bit more than the few liking it not liking it at all, and the rest on the fence; eventually forgetting about the idea.
It would fit with the game, but does that mean it should be in the game?
Thanks for the personal input. I did not get idea from FFXIV for I have not played that game series, only Guild Wars MMO wise. I am simply trying to consider a concept idea form of how Guild Wars 1 had its dual profession mechanic without necessarily bringing the complexity of it (as cool it would be, it would lead to deeper balance challenges).
Those who raised alts would not lose out on anything. As I mentioned before, having multiple level 80s over a single character has its benefits. Those benefits will remain regardless. Even if profession-specific achievements were say created, whether you leveled a new character or retrained a current character would yield the same progress. There is no reason to be discouraged to having leveled multiple characters to 80 if so, they will still bring a better benefit to having.
Many who level those alts just for professions do not “fully” complete their characters. That is gaining all the dream equipment, complete map exploration, ascended/legendary gear, dungeon unlocks, personal story, etc. Really only one character will ever earn all the best things. Partly why I do find this idea should somewhat take form into the game to promote more horizontal progression ideas.
Making alts still bring forth map completion benefits, treasure chests, less crafting profession switching. Retrained professions option is for those who want to simply collect various types of armor set types, weapon types, and be able to enjoy them all on a single character. The other main option is to enjoy the perspective of another class without completely overhauling a character’s race and personal story, while keeping the same name. I have multiple level 80’s myself and would not oppose this idea. I want whatever it will take to help people explore more professions while keeping a sense of progression. It also comes as the most viable way to bring forth what we could consider “profession change”, giving those who discard characters because of their current profession (but do not delete because of progress made) another sense of life.
On the side note, race change could simply be done by giving us more racial tonics that work like watch knight tonics. Allows us to fight whatever the tonic transforms us into.
- 25 damaging condition stack cap per attacker and not per monster attacked. All damage condition builds are useless in pve unless you solo or do in two people tops. Again killing horizontal progression that is already there, just unchain it from the floor.
This would be a game changer for many classes. Now it’s like get one necro per party and he will do all bleeds. You can’t go for condi warrior or ranger or even mesmer, because you will just damage the way party operates…
This too is a much needed change I would support 100%!
Perhaps, given the abilty to stack conditions per attacker and not per monster lower the cap to 20 instead of 25…or something, but defiantly DO IT.
Right now the game feels like you HAVE to go berserker or go home, because of the problem that more than 1 condition build in a party can create redundancy and hinder effectiveness.
One thing about Factions. I did not put it on my list because I am very wary of Factions. The game is kind of grindy enough and adding rep grind to the mix could be disastrous. I just think about other games and having to do rep grind on every single character…..ugh. It’s just really miserable to me. If it was account wide maybe I wouldn’t mind it, but per character? No….just no.
If it was introduced it would need to be bound to account or it will be a major disaster.
That also shouldn’t be too high. Making it like goal for next 6+months per fraction would also make people very unhappy.
For example, you could take 2 shoulder pieces and combine them so it isn’t just on 1 side, but both sides (as I photoshopped an example for your viewing pleasure below), or even take the fluffy trim of Braham’s chest armor and apply it to a different heavy armored chest piece. The potential of customisation epicness here is HUGE.
That is a bit of offtopic, but yes.
I hate all those not similar shoulder pieces. They look so bad most of them are irregular, that would look so great if only we could get them on both shoulders. Like Arah shoulders…
Please pass it to designers…
THE NEW MASTERS
“I haven’t seen that trick before!” — famous last wordsThe fighting spirit of Tyria has lead to countless styles and techniques, handed down through the centuries, mixing and flowing across the years like 10,000 streams of courage. Its time for you to drink of these waters. Welcome as Guildwars 2 reveals the next level of horizontal gameplay in this permanent Living World release.
Just Something I Picked Up
‘Class Mentors’ have been added to the world.I can’t say how much I love this suggestion, lore relations is something I really miss in GW2. It’s not perfect (because skills still rely on skillpoints instead of exploration) but kitten close. I hope they do something like this when implementing new weapons.
Let writers do the writing, personally I don’t care if there are no voice-overs when you have a lore-rich environment instead.
You can replace some of SP with them.
I would also delete like 1/3 of WPs that are on the map to make people run a bit more and new maps should have like 2-3 WPs. Over time few more, but still very little WPs. Southsun is great for that. You just have to run in there and only few camps are accessible by WPs.
Normal maps have way too many WP and that partly destroys the climate.
I miss the heroes from GW1 and I don’t play dungeons because I have to group with other people. Would it be possible to unlock heroes that could be used instead of living players to run dungeons. Perhaps scale rewards by the number of real players. I mostly just want to see the content… not necessarily for the rewards.
I will oppose any hero system.
The game needs social aspects and make people to learn playing with others.
Now it’s more like do everything on your own.
People do personal story solo, maps solo, most of LS solo.
We lack a major boost to group content that can make guilds worth something.
Now it’s just poor and people don’t bother and don’t see a reason to even be active in guild aside from 1 guild mission once a week.
We need guild houses, guild wars (GvG), and all things that are done best in the guilds.
The game is GUILD wars for crying out loud…
Many people left it already because of lack of good and many guild activities.
Many people were hyped by guild missions but it dies after 3-4 months, because those missions aren’t that great.
(edited by Septemptus.7164)
Ideas for horizontal progression
1. Dodge Animations | First off I didn’t come up with this. I heard about this while watching a VisualWood podcast. Imagine an elementalist that dodges with a crack of electricity, or a mesmer who just disappears shortly when dodging. For simplicity’s sake these wouldn’t add any additional effects, unless of course you have traited for it. I am sure the last thing the Devs want to do is add another component to the game that needs to be balanced.
That’s not a a progression, but I would love it.
2. Mounts | Yes I did indeed open this can of worms. People hate this idea and I understand why IF that would mean inclusion of mounts means waypoints were effected. These two systems could work entirely independently of one another.
I think that waypoints are a great option for those busy people who like to instantly travel from place to place. I completely sympathize with you guys. If you only have two hours a week you want to get as much as you can out of those two hours. I however hate waypoints. I only use them when I need to travel very far distances.To me zipping from point A to point B ruins immersion. I would much rather use a mount for short to medium distance, and wps for long distance. And I think that people would enjoy collecting mounts. It gives another layer to horizontal progression aside from cosmetic gear.
If you make like 2-3 WP on new maps (hopefully reduce some WP’s form original maps – especially in ORR) and add mounts that would boost players speed to 150% it would work just fine.
I love the idea for ranger to catch all my pets. It was easy but great fun.
You can do the same with mounts, but they would require fighting them and taming them. Maybe similar to ogre personal story part. Of course it would need to need a bit more time. Maybe mounts would be champions that you need to kill solo in small instance and then do some quests to make them obey you. THIS WOULD ROCK!!
3. Player Housing/Guild Halls | This would be cool but I am not sure what exactly it should consist of.
Everyone says that we need that so I will just hope it’s coming soon.
Letting players swap out skills on a weapon isn’t appropriate for GW2.
First of all, would you rather new weapon skills be placed on existing weapons, or would you rather get those skills on whole new weapons? ’Cause my thief really wants to use a staff as a melee pain-stick.
Secondly, keeping weapon skills locked is important for balancing the game – let’s not make it more complicated than it already is.
If my warrior could use at least some guardian skills on GS I would love it.
HORIZONTAL PROGRESSION (copy from old thread so it can be here)
1. TITLES:
Create master title similar to GWAMM that would describe how good someone is by defining certain achievement that would bump the title to another title, I described it earlier.
In here you could also support a bit more old GW1 players to recognize their effort in playing GW1 and getting those up to 11 titles.
2. SKINS:
- Create wardrobe system that would allow players to unlock skins and use it at least few times. Maybe use some kind of Mystic forge recipe to create skin from base item and the store skins in wardrobe?
As I proposed ascended items should have an ability to unlock skins and a way to add skins to the item by achievements and recipe.
For example adding dungeon skins by doing dungeon but karma skin by recipe.
If you have a skin bought from gem store it should be unlocked for all ascended items and also wardrobe. Legendaries would also require to unlock gem store skins by purchase and would also need some effort to get skins from Black Lion Specialist.
Unlocking old gem store skins could be done by Mystic Forge recipe.
Wardrobe could work like achievement skins: you can get as many of them as you want, so I can model my look on lvl one and just run through the whole game having it just because I like it.
3. TRIBES/ORDERS/RACES SUPPORT
I think we really need a way to contribute to many existing orders that are in Tyria.
Those could unlock special skins and abilities that they use.
If you will support skirts you will get some item skirt themed and for example some special bonuses towards skirts oppressors. like +1-5% more dmg/def against destroyers.
I also pointed race in here because I really think that we should be able to cross race cultural stuff. The idea is to create a way for char to get in favor of humans so much that they will acknowledge him as great guy and one of the despite where he was born and will make custom armor especially for him that will say: “we love you!”
The armor needs to be an account bound item without race requirement. It might cost more money, but it has to be for every class/race as long as you will prove that you earned it by race support.
The way I see it works is make it like a 200 points system.
Each account starts with 0 points and on 20 points you will have cultural T1, on 50 T2, on 100 you will have cultural T3, and later maybe more items and titles.
If you log in as certain race you will be able to buy race limited items and unlocked those that are unlocked by your playing (in another tab).
Points has to be earned for account or it won’t work.
HORIZONTAL PROGRESSION (part 2)
4. THINGS THAT MONEY CAN’T BUY – legendaries and all that
Everyone will tell there are things that money can’t buy but relaying on RNG is the worst possible way.
I pointed it already so I will write it shortly.
We need stuff that aside from new skins added to the game will be only obtainable by doing certain things.
First of those would be new legendaries. Those needs to require a lot of effort but the effort you have to do by your own. You need to get rid of T6 mats, lodestones and all those items or make certain (maybe time gated) ways to get them with 100% accuracy.
So we could know that doing something for example 150 days will get us legendary item but it won’t be random. It will be something certain. You can add some RNG to it that could reduce basically the time, but you have to get certain results.
I think that you should get it tied with dungeons, challenges, titles, maybe achievements, karma and all those bound currencies and items.
The idea is that when you have a legendary item, you earned it time wise and challenge wise and it shows that you are at least decent if not awesome.
(not like current legendaries that can be bought or you can both mats for them because getting them by yourself is a RNG pain).
This can also be used for other items/skills etc.
5. VERTICAL ABILITIES PROGRESSION
I pointed that out many pages ago, I really would like WvW alike progression with skills and abilities. The skills you get in WvW are amazing and I think all players in there feel like they progress and get stronger without leveling and gearing.
Of course getting new skills is very needed. I love those new healing skills.
6. DYES
There should be a way to unlock certain dyes for entire account. Those are also means of progression, there will be those who want to have all of them but due to many characters nobody will invest hundreds of gold into them.
This is also a goal so please think about it. Tie it for some achievements/quests for some people to spend their time on.
4. THINGS THAT MONEY CAN’T BUY – legendaries and all that
Everyone will tell there are things that money can’t buy but relaying on RNG is the worst possible way.
I pointed it already so I will write it shortly.
We need stuff that aside from new skins added to the game will be only obtainable by doing certain things.
First of those would be new legendaries. Those needs to require a lot of effort but the effort you have to do by your own. You need to get rid of T6 mats, lodestones and all those items or make certain (maybe time gated) ways to get them with 100% accuracy.
So we could know that doing something for example 150 days will get us legendary item but it won’t be random. It will be something certain. You can add some RNG to it that could reduce basically the time, but you have to get certain results.
I think that you should get it tied with dungeons, challenges, titles, maybe achievements, karma and all those bound currencies and items.
The idea is that when you have a legendary item, you earned it time wise and challenge wise and it shows that you are at least decent if not awesome.
(not like current legendaries that can be bought or you can both mats for them because getting them by yourself is a RNG pain).
This can also be used for other items/skills etc.
Technically you have to do a lot of content already to earn your Legendary. The Gift of Battle makes you play WvW, the Gift of Exploration makes you do World Completion,…
BUT all this was mutilated by the decision to make the Legendaries tradeable.
Introduce guaranteed rare (or better) at the end of a dungeon path if you have met some or all criteria amongst a list like killing all champions, killing at least a specific percentage of mobs, never got downed/killed, etc.
Guaranteed rare doesn’t especially mean a weapon or an armor, but may also mean a trinket or a potion.
Introduce guaranteed rare (or better) at the end of a dungeon path if you have met some or all criteria
I’d go against more RNG, rather more token as reward. I like the idea of having a list of bullet points of things to do, so that skipping half of the content becomes a bad idea. I have no idea what this has to do with horizontal progression though.
Really enjoying reading all the idea’s and suggestion.
Just a quick note:
Horizontal Progression should not have an end point so keep focused on things that can continue to grow / be added over time.
Also its not about adding more content so we have stuff to do, its about adding things that make you feel more developed, grown, valued, rewarded etc.. but not be more powerful, effective etc…
Keep up the good work!
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
Thanks Bezagron for this summary
And Guhracie, thanks for your summary and your links to favourites as well!
They really help me to try and come up with things that have not been mentioned yet. Like:
Feast version of maintenance oils/sharpening stones etc.
These wouldn’t necessarily be the same type of recipes (mystic forge) as the food feasts! The recipes could be the reward of a quest that starts at crafting level 500 of the respective progression for example.
They wouldn’t need to work like feasts either: they could be charged items. That gain more charges to consume per item if the crafter upgrades the recipe. (Perhaps fueling a party of 5 is no problem for the basic set, but the zergs of WvW could only be fueled by multiples of that item, or upgraded versions.)
They may or may not be accountbound.
(edited by The Lost Witch.7601)
Thieves and rifles: When Anet changed Cluster Bomb from 1200 to 900 Range, they send a clear message they do not want Thieves to have more then 900 Range. Adding Rifle to the bundle would not change anything. Rifle doesn’t really fits with Thieves gameplay anyway.
Best try to give them ideas on brining new weapons to the table, instead of recycling old. It would create more impact on the playerbase.
Warrior: Two-Bladed Sword / Greataxe
Guardian: Polearm
Thief: Whip/Crossbow
Engineer:
Ranger: Crossbow
Mesmer:
Necromancer:
Elementalist:
If the rifle skills were more like sniper-type abilities, it could add a new dimension to thief aesthetics and gameplay. Although the idea of implementing a whip weapon for thieves is also extremely appealing.
I would also LOVE to see greataxes and polearms in game. I’m not sold on the crossbow.
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
Lots of good ideas being thrown around, These are just somethings I dislike/would tweak.
I’d like to repeat what Septemptus said, I’m against any form of Hero system as well. There is very little content that requires you to work with other players. If you are unwilling to work with others in an MMO i.e the genre that specifically requires it, for you to have the full experience. That is a problem you created and should not be treated as an issue.
On housing, love the ideas going around on them at the moment too, I do however not want housing to be limited by race, I play a sylvari but I most certainly want my house to be a stone mansion/castle not made of plant.
Lastly, some of the ideas here are just tick boxes, you will get this new skill, you will get the new weapon, yes it expands your character…just like everyone elses. to me progression is about narrowing down how many people have made the exact same choices/have the same stuff as much as possible. So that you’ve had a unique experience.
I feel this can be done by either Choices, or Skill gates on any progression.
In choices you can pick A or B but not both, in skill gates you may be good enough to get both, you may be good enough to get A or B , or you may be unable to acquire either.
The basics elements of a game include challenge, competition and no guarantee of victory (in this context getting what you want).
11x level 80’s 80+ Titles 2600+ skins , still a long way to go.
what I would like to see with all the progression systems in the game: make it easier to actually see your progression.
Personally I find it quite hard to see which mats I’m still missing for my Legendary. The Achievement-UI rework was a nice first step (follow specific achievements), more would be welcome.
I feel this can be done by either Choices, or Skill gates on any progression.
In choices you can pick A or B but not both, in skill gates you may be good enough to get both, you may be good enough to get A or B , or you may be unable to acquire either.
The basics elements of a game include challenge, competition and no guarantee of victory (in this context getting what you want).
I can agree on choices only on one condition.
They have to resetable like traits we have.
I think the game should become more about tracking your personal performance than about achieving better/stonger gear.
Leaderboards make little sense to me in certain aspects:
- I don’t care who did the most damage in that boss-battle. Probably it was a Berserker Warrior (add a profession/geartype as you like) anyway.
- I don’t care who cleared dungeon XY the fastest. Probably they skipped most mobs and I don’t enjoy that kind of playstyle anyway.
What I would be more interested in: my personal performance and my progress of that. I’m still not interested in my DPS since this could be used for segregation. If that sparring-npc told me that this was my best performance by far since we sparred together, this would mean something to me though.
Even the most unskilled players could see their improvement and feel rewarded that way.
We kind of have this system already with the new fractals instabilities. You can see your personal (group) progress by the challenges you’ve conquered, but you can’t really say: “I’m better than you” because the fractals are still random and there is no DPS meter and time-runs make no sense for different fractals of a certain instability.
Now I’d like to see something like that (like the Queens Gauntlet) for players who don’t enjoy organized groupplay (aka dungeons).
(edited by Marcus Greythorne.6843)
Colin had mentioned that one of the things they’d like to do is open the possibility of all weapons being usable on all professions. If we roll with that idea, I could envision something where you start with the current weapons we have available, but after time can unlock new ones through various means… for example unlocking all skills on all starter weapons, getting ‘n’ number of kills with each weapon, etc. After going through a battery of conditions you could unlock the new weapon for your character, which would in turn start a new set of conditions towards unlocking the next weapon. Ultimately, once you’ve unlocked all weapons and met a set of criteria following that, you could earn a new title (“Grandmaster of Weapons” or something…) and possibly a new set of armor skins for that character. Maybe even a minipet or the like.
After going through a battery of conditions you could unlock the new weapon for your character, which would in turn start a new set of conditions towards unlocking the next weapon. Ultimately, once you’ve unlocked all weapons and met a set of criteria following that, you could earn a new title (“Grandmaster of Weapons” or something…) and possibly a new set of armor skins for that character. Maybe even a minipet or the like.
I prefer Nike’s suggestion of a certain NPC for each weapon who has some challenges for you instead of grinding your weapons to 400 in order to unlock the next thing. It should be more about quality/skill rather than quantity/grind imho.
Wouldn’t if feel more rewarding? Compare:
Just Something I Picked Up
‘Class Mentors’ have been added to the world. Each mentor belongs to one of the existing Professions but has their own unique take on what that means. They may be masters of lost arts, privy to secrets from foreign lands, or simply picked up ‘a little something’ along the way. Each mentor will offer players a series of tasks throughout their zone culminating in a new mini-dungeon. Characters of any class can answer the call… But for characters whose class matches that of the mentor, there are even greater benefits.Completing the instance for your class mentor will immediately unlock a new weapon type for you to use and reveals three new utility skills (listed on a line between the 6-point utilities and the elite skills). These skills typically cost 15 skill points and often share tags with existing skills allowing you to blend them into and enhance existing builds or combine them to unleash entirely new creations!
Now I am the Master…
Once a mentor’s tasks are complete, they will also become a karma vendor offering 3 new weapons skins for the weapon type they teach and specifically themed to go with the skills they reveal. Show off your new moves in style!Master Kaigen-Li (Elementalist)
While the lands of the Tengu remain shrouded behind secrecy and vast stony walls, there are still those who feel wisdom must be shared or it is not wisdom. Meet Master Kaigen-Li a Tengu elementalist who needs your help finding a scroll lost since the Rise of Orr…
Weapon Granted: Main-hand Sword
Skills Revealed: Conjure Night’s Sword, Riddle of Silence (cantrip), Signet of the Starry Heavens
to
for example unlocking all skills on all starter weapons, getting ‘n’ number of kills with each weapon, etc. After going through a battery of conditions you could unlock the new weapon for your character, which would in turn start a new set of conditions towards unlocking the next weapon.
I think the suggestion on this thread would be something worth considering aswell:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Dungeon-Boss-Arena/first
Basically its an arena where you can select dungeon or fractal bosses to fight as a group or solo simply for practise or fun. You could also introduce gambits to the arena. There wouldnt be any currency or loot rewards to prevent farming. There could however be achievements tied to it and maybe even the prestigious mini lupicus (untradeable) for people who are able to solo lupi in a certain time.
Changes that should make for better horizontal progression, i.e. skill should save time spent:
1) Remove agony, or else rework it to be completely avoidable, make it a hate magnet. Remove agony resist completely, grind should never take the place of skill.
2) Introduce a range of runes/sigils that give bonuses specific to certain areas of the game e.g. WvW or Fractal themed and that can be only be placed in ascended armour and weapons, but are not more powerful than other runes/sigils. Players can then differentiate themselves, along the lines of generalist (exotic gear and normal runes/sigils), WvW player (ascended gear with WvW runes/sigils) or Fractal player (ascended gear with fractal runes/sigils).
3) Remove stats from back items so appearance can be changed more easily. Same could be done with aqua breathers. Useless getting a load of back items and not being able to swap them.
4) Rework ascended items so they have the same stats as exotic, but act as account-wide unlocks. Once an ascended item is obtained, any number of copies of it can be accessed on one character or on alts. This is an example of horizontal progression, the longer the game is played, the more options accessible to the player and can be changed between at the click of a button.
5) Or how about adding solo bosses around the world (in small instances), in fractals or dungeons, that can be challenged and if you defeat them you get to unlock a new stat set for your ascended gear. It would be something similar to how elites were captured in GW1. Every time a new stat set is added, a new boss is added too. Maybe theme each challenge to the stat set that will be unlocked. It could be further split by weapon type and armour slot, e.g. boss A drops soldier’s gloves, boss B drops soldier’s helm. Add some distinct cosmetics to it too.
6) Copy the cosmetic system from Rift. Or Lotro. Or TSW. This should have been priority number one after launch, a year later and still not on the horizon.
7) Add fractal armour with exotic stats, but which can be upgraded in appearance not stats as the player gets higher in fractals. Not just shiny effects, but if the armour appearance started off as basic and that everyone could get at ~level 20, then adding more dye channels, more detail and decoration and layers, more effects as the player progressed that would be horizontal progression.
8) Having the new heal skill costing 25 skillpoints is too much, 8-10 would be more appropriate. If players have too many skillpoints, reduce the drop rate of scrolls or add more consumables that require them. Future utility skills should cost the same.
9) The rank abilities in WvW need to be rebalanced so there is more distinction between characters. The two stacking buffs need to be neutered or else that will be the goal for every WvW player. If everyone aims to have the same setup that is a failure of a horizontal progression system.
(edited by Valderro.6389)
I prefer Nike’s suggestion of a certain NPC for each weapon who has some challenges for you instead of grinding your weapons to 400 in order to unlock the next thing. It should be more about quality/skill rather than quantity/grind imho.
There were some tasks like this in GW Factions to unlock some skills in the Shing Jea Monestary:
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
On housing, love the ideas going around on them at the moment too, I do however not want housing to be limited by race, I play a sylvari but I most certainly want my house to be a stone mansion/castle not made of plant.
Lastly, some of the ideas here are just tick boxes, you will get this new skill, you will get the new weapon, yes it expands your character…just like everyone elses. to me progression is about narrowing down how many people have made the exact same choices/have the same stuff as much as possible. So that you’ve had a unique experience.
I feel this can be done by either Choices, or Skill gates on any progression.
In choices you can pick A or B but not both, in skill gates you may be good enough to get both, you may be good enough to get A or B , or you may be unable to acquire either.
The basics elements of a game include challenge, competition and no guarantee of victory (in this context getting what you want).
About housing here -I have several Sylvari’s and they all operate out of Divinity’s Reach.
I have no emotional tie to the grove whatsoever and would not want to live there.
I also want to add that I, in no way, consider the home instance as my character’s home and I do not consider it the same as personal housing at all.
For player housing I think we need something a bit more personal- not sure if it has been mentioned here but months ago in a thread about housing the idea of instanced, player neighborhoods, out in the world came up- so inside the instance you would be able to wander around visit other people’s homes etc and it can be anywhere, rather like the personal story instances are now.
I like it because it solves the cluttering up the map aspect but still retains the social aspect of living in a neighborhood and it doesn’t have to be tied to race.
As for the rest of your comment.
I agree because it should be about differentiating and creating more unique characters- not get so many trait/skill point that everyone ends up as playing ele/warriors of doom or with max points in all the lines.
To me specialties within the professions should be kind of like specialties in real life.
You are a GP or you are a Neuro surgeon or an Ortho
You do not ask the Neuro or the Ortho to take out your appendix or your tonsils.
Same with the professions.
IMO we should never have multiple classes like you have in traditional DnD
I really think we should expand in the professions we already have and make it possible to play these in more diverse and unique ways.
(edited by Morrigan.2809)
I think the suggestion on this thread would be something worth considering aswell:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Dungeon-Boss-Arena/first
Basically its an arena where you can select dungeon or fractal bosses to fight as a group or solo simply for practise or fun. You could also introduce gambits to the arena. There wouldnt be any currency or loot rewards to prevent farming. There could however be achievements tied to it and maybe even the prestigious mini lupicus (untradeable) for people who are able to solo lupi in a certain time.
I like the idea of arenas, hence my previous suggestion of such with npcs roaming around the map who act as bosses in that arena when found + acts as 1v1 duel place also.
What would be nice in these arenas: the possibility for other players to watch (like Queens Gauntlet), but with an invisible barrier instead of the dome.
Weapon dyeing please.
Maybe make it that weapon “dye slots” need to be crafted and the weapon “upgraded” with said slots.
For now I ‘d just be happy with all the meta rewards (skins and minis anyways, and the skins from previous LS things like Mad Kind Memories) being added to the AP reward panel thing, so we can pull them down as many times as we want. I know there are several skins I’d love to use more than once on one characters. That panel isn’t being utilized for anything other than the zenith/hellfire/radiant AP rewards. Seems kind of a waste of a system. I’m sure it would need a way to sort/filter them after awhile, but I don’t think that would be too hard, since the majority of that system is already there.
Also, why do we have to be lvl 80 to be able to buy the certain skins from the master armorer (the last tab on him, the thing with the skins only for <45 badges each piece)? By that point, its kinda become useless to buy those when there are some better ones (by preference) at that level.
Please give us a keyring…
Weapon dyeing please.
Maybe make it that weapon “dye slots” need to be crafted and the weapon “upgraded” with said slots.
I love what they did with SAB, a different color for harder challenges.
For those who want new skills/weapons — that works in the short term to keep the game fresh, but it’s not sustainable. If you keep adding skills, balance becomes a nightmare (Anet’s already having a terrible time of it right now).
How do you propose they Anet deals with this?
They did it with Gw1, and are probably better at now
No they did not. Balance in Guild Wars a complete nightmare! Skills that needed buffs were ignored for a long time, and builds that desperately needed to be nerfed were around even longer. The biggest issue was the fact that although we had access to hundreds of thousands of different builds, only a small handful was used by the player-base because it otherwise wouldn’t have been playable.
(edited by TriggerSad.2597)
4. THINGS THAT MONEY CAN’T BUY – legendaries and all that
Everyone will tell there are things that money can’t buy but relaying on RNG is the worst possible way.
I pointed it already so I will write it shortly.
We need stuff that aside from new skins added to the game will be only obtainable by doing certain things.
First of those would be new legendaries. Those needs to require a lot of effort but the effort you have to do by your own. You need to get rid of T6 mats, lodestones and all those items or make certain (maybe time gated) ways to get them with 100% accuracy.
So we could know that doing something for example 150 days will get us legendary item but it won’t be random. It will be something certain. You can add some RNG to it that could reduce basically the time, but you have to get certain results.
I think that you should get it tied with dungeons, challenges, titles, maybe achievements, karma and all those bound currencies and items.
The idea is that when you have a legendary item, you earned it time wise and challenge wise and it shows that you are at least decent if not awesome.
(not like current legendaries that can be bought or you can both mats for them because getting them by yourself is a RNG pain).
This can also be used for other items/skills etc.Technically you have to do a lot of content already to earn your Legendary. The Gift of Battle makes you play WvW, the Gift of Exploration makes you do World Completion,…
BUT all this was mutilated by the decision to make the Legendaries tradeable.
You don’t need to actually play WvW anymore to get the Legendary stuff done, you just need map completion. The achievement chest give out badges by the hundreds.
So I throw in some Ideas as well:
- Gambits for dungeons
- instabilities for dungeons
- Special achievments /titles for dungeon done with certain instabilities / gambits ( Don’t make em random so People reroll or have luck let People choose and make achievvments like dungeon completed with x instabilities ect / certain gambits. Have Special titles or even Skins for People that are unique to those achievments and NOT buayable..
and for the very end explain the fractal Players about the reset so they can enjoy the game again without having the permanend fear that the time spent or Progress made will be reseted without any comment or compensation:)
An idea Id like to toss out to see if it sticks:
From the WoW days, they introduced a system called reforging.
Example:
Armor has
45 power
47 precision
+3% crit damage
I am able to visit a reforge NPC to change up the stats a bit. Via a pre-determined scale, I am able to take, for example, 9 power out of the ‘45 power’ portion and I can place it into Precision(to give me 56 Precision) or into a new category, for example Condition damage to give me 9 condition damage.
Just an idea. I think Blizzard is removing this mechanic from the game, or already has, since they have a better system in place. But this wasn’t a terribly bad system either. It gave you a bit more flexibility on gear.
Another idea Id like to toss out there…and this has been mentioned several times in this thread as well as the previous VP thread…
Id like to be able to discover new abilities. Someone in this thread posted some GW1 videos of defeating some mob to discover a new elite skill. I like this. I would love the ability to hunt down some specific creatures in the world for specific ability drops, not just elite abilities either. Id also like to stumble upon these abilities while just roaming. For example, I am harvesting a mining node and I get a card/consumable for a skill to double click and learn.
The thing is, though, if we tie these skills to mobs, say a champions or something, then we need to be weary of the champ train. You’ll have these trains forming to farm these guys into oblivion and this is not good for the game.
I want to be able to learn or earn abilities through playing ANY part of the game. Or, better yet…while completing dynamic events in game, have the reward tables adjusted to include these ability consumables.. So when I complete a DE, I am rewarded Karma, XP, coin, and the chance at an ability card to double click and learn.
The armour in this game needs to be redone for races other than humans. It’s all well and good having skin wardrobes with unlockable permanent skin access to work for but if I as a Charr have just two armour sets that don’t look plain awful to choose from (T3 heavy and Vigil heavy) then the whole thing isn’t much use to me.
-Remodel and retexture armour to fit all races, especially the chunky body types.
-When remodelling them make the armour more 3 dimensional. Most pieces look like shaped 2D textures than actual armour with mass and depth. (Phalanx armour is very good example of well made chunky armour.)
Another idea Id like to toss out there…and this has been mentioned several times in this thread as well as the previous VP thread…
Id like to be able to discover new abilities. Someone in this thread posted some GW1 videos of defeating some mob to discover a new elite skill. I like this. I would love the ability to hunt down some specific creatures in the world for specific ability drops, not just elite abilities either. Id also like to stumble upon these abilities while just roaming. For example, I am harvesting a mining node and I get a card/consumable for a skill to double click and learn.
The thing is, though, if we tie these skills to mobs, say a champions or something, then we need to be weary of the champ train. You’ll have these trains forming to farm these guys into oblivion and this is not good for the game.
I want to be able to learn or earn abilities through playing ANY part of the game. Or, better yet…while completing dynamic events in game, have the reward tables adjusted to include these ability consumables.. So when I complete a DE, I am rewarded Karma, XP, coin, and the chance at an ability card to double click and learn.
My suggestion to this was:
- Have unique spell effects obtainable in the GW1 way.
- Use Skill Points to unlock Skill Challenges in the theme of the profession (fighting for warriors, rituals and sacrifice for Necro’s ect), as well as the challenge being suitable for the skill (for example, using a defensive skill to survive for 2 minutes). Completing these challenges would award the skill.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
Wanted to expand on my thoughts about the home instance / in game HOM / player housing progression idea.
Much of this has been covered by other posts also.
In general, players like to see accomplishments in the game world.
Examples:
1. Achievements
A picture of a particularly challenging completed achievement on a panel feels less important that say a trophy in a players “Home” or a statue in their home instance (excessive example). Being able to see your home grow would make for good horizontal progression.
2. Building notoriety / relationships with Factions / NPC’s
Investing many hours and risking life and limb for a group or person and never seeing them again is a shame. Having an NPC in your Home or even guards from a Faction in your home instance would be a visual reminder of the accomplishment / growth as a person.
3. Convenience / Quality of Life as a horizontal reward
The ability to travel to LA is free, maybe this is what making it so popular. That along with the easy access to Crafting, TP, Bank, Skill Trainers etc…
Having free access to your house or home instance could be reward level 1. being able to build up the other amenities as horizontal progression would be a noticeable reward / development path.
4. Further Customization
The ability to earn / buy visual upgrades or skin packs for your home would allow players to add more depth to their characters . For instance adding luxurious items, bright and fun things or more dark and Gothic looks.
5. A place to gather
The players home or instance would be a good place for RP or to hang out while waiting for guilds members / teams to form. Being able to build a hub (albeit with a huge amount of effort) would give some good bragging rights / notoriety within circles of friends. Horizontal progression for some people is about displaying their progress.
6. A dynamic space
Unlocking Dynamic events through development would a a great way to keep progression running. For example, if you unlock a group of traders, you get a home instance based DE to collect rare items for them. These “Quests” should be random and when completed, add temporary visual changes.
Well thanks to any whom read these suggestions and keep the idea’s coming!
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
2) Introduce a range of runes/sigils that give bonuses specific to certain areas of the game e.g. WvW or Fractal themed and that can be only be placed in ascended armour and weapons, but are not more powerful than other runes/sigils. Players can then differentiate themselves, along the lines of generalist (exotic gear and normal runes/sigils), WvW player (ascended gear with WvW runes/sigils) or Fractal player (ascended gear with fractal runes/sigils).
How many people uses different sigils and runes for killing undeads?
Just look on the price in TP.
Nobody.
We would probably could go to unlock some sigils or stats to ascended gears that you can hot swap, but really everyone prefers sigils that work for any encounter without endless grind to make weapon sets or replacing sigil/runes with next versions of them just to fight certain boss…
3) Remove stats from back items so appearance can be changed more easily. Same could be done with aqua breathers. Useless getting a load of back items and not being able to swap them.
No.
Really stats have a meaning. The thing that you need is more ways to change items looks and that will be done.
4) Rework ascended items so they have the same stats as exotic, but act as account-wide unlocks. Once an ascended item is obtained, any number of copies of it can be accessed on one character or on alts. This is an example of horizontal progression, the longer the game is played, the more options accessible to the player and can be changed between at the click of a button.
You can’t just take away the fact that a lot of people just worked hard towards those few points more. We had a lot changes like that already (last fractal update)
What we need is so more means to get items across alts and making them more usable like unlocking nice features for those items aside from stats boost. Like the idea to make them able to unlock stats after some effort from player.
5) Or how about adding solo bosses around the world (in small instances), in fractals or dungeons, that can be challenged and if you defeat them you get to unlock a new stat set for your ascended gear. It would be something similar to how elites were captured in GW1. Every time a new stat set is added, a new boss is added too. Maybe theme each challenge to the stat set that will be unlocked. It could be further split by weapon type and armour slot, e.g. boss A drops soldier’s gloves, boss B drops soldier’s helm. Add some distinct cosmetics to it too.
*We need more content that would focus players on doing groups and guilds fights *(no zerg stuff and no solo content, there is a lot of that already and nothing from that helps the game.)
6) Copy the cosmetic system from Rift. Or Lotro. Or TSW. This should have been priority number one after launch, a year later and still not on the horizon.
I think that you should write more about it.
7) Add fractal armour with exotic stats, but which can be upgraded in appearance not stats as the player gets higher in fractals. Not just shiny effects, but if the armour appearance started off as basic and that everyone could get at ~level 20, then adding more dye channels, more detail and decoration and layers, more effects as the player progressed that would be horizontal progression.
This is a cool idea, but it should be done for more than just fractal armor. Cultural armors should be used for that reason I think and maybe some other selected cross race armors.
8) Having the new heal skill costing 25 skillpoints is too much, 8-10 would be more appropriate. If players have too many skillpoints, reduce the drop rate of scrolls or add more consumables that require them. Future utility skills should cost the same.
Agreed.
You should not block players that don’t farm champions because you need a SP sink. Make them convertible for gold or something, but not skills for 25 SP each time.
(edited by Septemptus.7164)
For those who want new skills/weapons — that works in the short term to keep the game fresh, but it’s not sustainable. If you keep adding skills, balance becomes a nightmare (Anet’s already having a terrible time of it right now).
How do you propose they Anet deals with this?
They did it with Gw1, and are probably better at now
No they did not. Balance in Guild Wars a complete nightmare! Skills that needed buffs were ignored for a long time, and builds that desperately needed to be nerfed were around even longer. The biggest issue was the fact that although we had access to hundreds of thousands of different builds, only a small handful was used by the player-base because it otherwise wouldn’t have been playable.
And how is it any different in GW2? Mindless, auto-attacking zerker builds that desperately need to be nerfed and weren’t yet? Plenty of skills, stats, traits and weapon sets that are ignored for the optimal DPS one? Only a small handful of builds playable?
With the way PvE’s design currently is, with the overload of passive effect systems (runes + traits + sigils, and someday in the future, infusions), with the lack of mechanisms to make support or control builds any better or more enjoyable, and with the lack of mechanisms to prevent spam, GW2 is a balancing nightmare too.
One year after the game is out, and pvp’s balance is actually at a worse state than it was half a year before, and every single time Anet tries to buff underpowered options, more spams comes into the game. Aoe spam, auto-attack spam, condition spam, boon spam, passive proc spam, AI spam, particle effects spam, etc.
And let’s not talk about skills like Ride the Lightning or Mist Form, which were made to be less enjoyable for the sake of balance, because there was no other way to nerf them (for example, no energy system) other than outright stripping enjoyable functionalities out of them.
GW2 is pretty much a balancing nightmare too, and currently neither the playerbase is satisfied with its balance _anywhere_in the game, nor is anet acchieving a more balance state no matter how hard they try.
The core philosophy for PvE encounter design, for the (extremely passive) character progression/ customisation system, and for a few other things, need to be revamped, and Anet needs to have the courage to do it. Currently, if you look anywhere else in the internet, GW2 is frowned upon when people talk about interesting endgame or balance.
(edited by DiogoSilva.7089)
To me its all about the story..not Ls actual story,order,racial and pact,we never even heard of them,also Followers/sidekicks/heroes would work and not turn the game away from socail features as long as the guild features were improved (like guild hall,guild vs guild and faction guild approval or statistical missions,like sending the followers away and only seing the result)
Anet talked about a personal nemesis,i would like a reply as to way that was dropped,and a hint of what it could be please
4. THINGS THAT MONEY CAN’T BUY – legendaries and all that
Everyone will tell there are things that money can’t buy but relaying on RNG is the worst possible way.
I pointed it already so I will write it shortly.
We need stuff that aside from new skins added to the game will be only obtainable by doing certain things.
First of those would be new legendaries. Those needs to require a lot of effort but the effort you have to do by your own. You need to get rid of T6 mats, lodestones and all those items or make certain (maybe time gated) ways to get them with 100% accuracy.
So we could know that doing something for example 150 days will get us legendary item but it won’t be random. It will be something certain. You can add some RNG to it that could reduce basically the time, but you have to get certain results.
I think that you should get it tied with dungeons, challenges, titles, maybe achievements, karma and all those bound currencies and items.
The idea is that when you have a legendary item, you earned it time wise and challenge wise and it shows that you are at least decent if not awesome.
(not like current legendaries that can be bought or you can both mats for them because getting them by yourself is a RNG pain).
This can also be used for other items/skills etc.Technically you have to do a lot of content already to earn your Legendary. The Gift of Battle makes you play WvW, the Gift of Exploration makes you do World Completion,…
BUT all this was mutilated by the decision to make the Legendaries tradeable.
You don’t need to actually play WvW anymore to get the Legendary stuff done, you just need map completion. The achievement chest give out badges by the hundreds.
It’s useless if you don’t have to do any hard stuff and can bypass it by gold.
Please tell me what is hard in making legendary outside from gathering gold (not buying one but making one).
I see only 2 things:
- map completion (I know people who don’t like it and its kittenly for them)
- getting clovers just because it’s RNG.
Other stuff is like “go buy that”, farm champions, play TP, run from any content that needs any thinking, planing or effort in general. Just farm for hours or pretend to play by doing TP all the way and sit in LA for a whole day.
So I throw in some Ideas as well:
- Gambits for dungeons
- instabilities for dungeons
- Special achievments /titles for dungeon done with certain instabilities / gambits ( Don’t make em random so People reroll or have luck let People choose and make achievvments like dungeon completed with x instabilities ect / certain gambits. Have Special titles or even Skins for People that are unique to those achievments and NOT buayable..
I love it.
Well as long as they will become unlockable instead of random drops – similar to SAB tribulation mode.