CDI- Character Progression-Horizontal
I couldnt really be bothered to wade through 12 pages of duble/tripple/quadrupple post “statements” so if this has be said already, I agree.
Anyhoo; Skills. Give us more skills. The skill system is extremely limited currently. Yes I know you folks have added a couple of healing skills. Thats great, honestly it is. Though the ranger new healing skill is kinda rubbish for anyone not running a spirit build, but thats a seperate point.
No my point is as stated; More skillz plz! Additional utility skills & elites to chose from that are class/race/prof specific and also some universal ones.
But here is an additonal idea, again if its been said, I agree!
Make weapons skills interchangeable . That is to say, we have 5 skills per weapon. You could add more skills to each weapon and give us a choice in switching out some weapon skills. I know a few times I tried a weapon set and thought “that would be great for me is skill # was on button # instead” or “if this weapon A had a skill like weapon B on that skill I think is a bit crappy it would be great for me”
Not that the current weapon skills are that bad. To use an example of the ranger longbow changes a few patches back that put stealth on hunters shot, I know some players would like the option of the old skill version. Giving players a choice in builds and styles is a must for longevity, which you are well aware of.
Balance would be harder yes. But thats a challenge you folks have pulled off in the past with GW1 skill system. So you can do it. And it would add in whole new dimension to the game with regards to builds, and give old characters a new lease of life without the need of complete rebuilds, hell even make it required to rebuild the character.
Just more skills please!
This thread is 11 pages long now so I havent read through all the posts, so I apologize in advance if any of my thoughts have previously been mentioned
1. a DPS meter, Support meter and Tank meter should be implemented into the game for dungeons, these will be shown during hard mode runs of the dungeon (hard mode gives no tokens for gear, instead it offers more gold and the above mentioned meters)
These meters would then lead to overall dungeon leaderboards, an important note is by making only the runs for hard mode display the meters any player not wishing to compete during dungeon runs can simply run the standard version of the dungeon
this came to me via DCUO (recently started playing as its on ps4) but the screen shown at the end of the dungeons there telling me how my DPS compared to other members of the group gave me a goal to work towards improving when I was lower in damage, but also an ego boost when I topped the list, certainly keeps me wanting to improve
2. I would like to see player housing, various levels of housing and locations should exist, while basic housing would be purchasable via gold I believe that more favourable locations (lions arch as an example) should be made available through other means (maybe some available through gold, but not all), the more favourable the location the rarer the housing, there should not be enough for everyone, this makes houses all the more valuable and prestigious to those who have them, if you own a house in a zone, you are prioritised to join that zone during any overflow
I will expand on this by using lions arch as an example, if there are 3 houses available there, 1 should be purchasable via gold, once purchased the owner can list a price at which they would be interested in selling the property, any bids over this price would then be visible to the owner so they can decide if they wish to sell or not
the 2nd house should be available to players of a sPvP background, this house can be won originally via a 1v1 tournament, monthly tournaments take place with the ownership of the house at stake
the 3rd house should be available to the best WvW commander, this is decided via a vote every month, only players who have spent a minimum of 30 hours per month in WvW receive a voting token and the house is given as a reward for their hard work for the server
3. Guild Wars would be nice, instanced arenas offering multiple levels of combat from 5 vs 5 up to 25 vs 25 (deathmatch not domination game mode), a monthly tournament for each category of combat takes place with the winning guild receiving rewards including priority queue for all WvW borderlands
4. I would also like to see stances added to the game (not like the warrior stance skills), these would include normal, healer, support and tank, while in normal stance our skills would be as they are currently, however switching to healer (only out of combat changes allowed) would change our weapon skills to all healing abilities for others (regen, condi cures, aoe or single target heals), switching to support would change the weapon skills to those which apply protection, fury and other abilities to other players, being a tank would switch out weapon skills to those of a defensive nature
I believe the stances would add more depth to WvW in particular
Overall the theme I would like to see is one where the best players can become legends, it gives those who invest time into mastering their class or their tactics the chance to shine and be rewarded with in game luxury rewards for it, the progression here is to encourage players to improve their skill level all the time and then as they improve progress up the leaderboards or proceed further in tournaments (each server has their own individual tournaments)
kitten , i was so long typing my post that the thread went from 11 pages to 12 before it got posted lol
One thing I’d really like to see change with future progression is all top tier gear should be available for badges. I find pve/crafting in this game so boring it makes me want to not log in. I love wvw in this game.
Problem is I get get a legendary or ascended weapons/armor without forcing me into hours and hours of awful pve and crafting. This is not fun. I’m wasting my limited play time being forced to do things I find in incredibly boring, instead of having fun in wvw…either that or just be stuck with sub-optimal gear forever.
I don’t care if it costs a ton of badges to get, because I enjoy wvw, but for the love of god please just let me get all the cool stuff for blowing tons of time in wvw. If cool gear is supposed to be a reward for achievement…well what the heck, I can get cool gear if I blow a couple hundred gold buying mats and crafting for an hour, but if I spend that same couple hundred gold buying siege, upgrading things, and slaughtering players in wvw I just end up with nothing to show for it?
4 great lulz…
Hobo-Sacks
Because they ARE relevant to Horizontal Progression!I cannot progress my back horizontally on my engineer. PLEEEEAAAAASE REMOVE THEM!
Quote for great justice, because it is kinda frustrating.
I am BEGGING ANET to PLEASE REMOVE THE STUPID HOBOSACK!
Nobody likes them! NOBODY! NOBODY!
It’s been more than a YEAR, and engineers STILL cant use backpacks? The same item type with skins being given out EVERY living story?
It’s not fair to lock us out of an entire part of the game. IT’S NOT FAIR! :’(
I hardly play an engi…lvl 30 something. Interesting and quarky. I can see your frustration, though you aren’t locked out of a ‘part of the game’. It was just a silly design decision and its one of those things where I can’t imagine they they didnt think that some people, or many people, would not want the big engi backpacks…and to launch the game with an option to turn that off for engineers.
Engineers are locked out of the cosmetic part of the game. It may not be a part you find to be personally important, but it is part of the game. Kits are invasive- they replace back slot items and weapons, and unless you want to design your look around the palette of colours in the kits, the overall aesthetics of character design are destroyed when the kit comes out. It’s easy to shrug off at level 30, but it becomes more and more apparent that the class is broken the more you play it. Just in case you missed it, I did a more involved post on it here.
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
Before I launch into the underwater combat…
I actually like the engineer “hobo sacks” – most of them, anyway, and it makes sense that sense that many of the kits will involve having something on your back for storing grenades, flamethrower fuel, or whatever it is you’re using.
However, as shown in this thread, not everyone likes them, whether that dislike is because they’d rather have another back skin, or just because they don’t like it. There’s also the element that what the “hobo sacks” gain in realism, they lose in the way that an engineer with multiple kits seems to be storing multiple large backpacks in some sort of hammerspace.
As a compromise, I propose the following:
1) If the “Unhide” box is checked, and the back slot item is one that adds to your character’s appearance, then the back slot item has precedence over the backpack even when a kit is equipped. (We can assume, in this case, that the back item somehow contains the materials that all currently slotted kits would require, or that the engineer has found some other means of storing that equipment – possibly in the same place as most rangers, thieves and warriors keep their arrows.)
2) Make the backpacks for the kits available from engineer trainers as soulbound skins. If an engineer player wants to show their dedication to a particular kit by wearing the associated backpack permanently, more power to them.
3) If necessary for pvp recognition purposes, point 1 can be reversed for WvW and sPvP.
Part 2
- No need for a separate trait build like that in pvp, simple additions/ alterations to current traits will do fine. Traits that benefit land only abilities/ weapons have added traits that will benefit aquatic only abilities and weapons. I.E. (10% of toughness is converted to power = no changes. Greatsword skills recharge 20% faster = GS and spear abilities recharge 20% faster.)
I think this is definitely part of the solution. One of the real pains with aquatic combat, especially in places where you end up switching from land to water and vice versa often, is that you often need to be switching your traits over to avoid ending up with junk traits that don’t help you in your current environment (usually land traits that don’t help underwater).
The other major problem is, of course, that half or so of the utility skills are unavailable underwater. This doesn’t just mean less choice – some professions rely on certain utilities for valuable functions when above water, which becomes a problem when they lose them below water. Now, it’s understandable that certain skills just aren’t going to work so well underwater, but underwater combat would probably be much more interesting if, instead of just seeing half of your utilities with red Xs over them, ArenaNet can come up with versions of those skills, or brand new underwater skills that serve a similar purpose.
This would also help with the problem of traits becoming redundant underwater – currently, a number of entire utility skill groups are unavailable underwater, but if new members of those groups are introduced that do function underwater, or a new group is created that keys off the same traits, then those traits would be useful under water again. Combine this with having any mainhand or two-handed weapon trait apply its effects to an appropriate underwater weapon (melee weapons to spears, ranged weapons to spearguns or tridents as appropriate) and have some rule to prevent weapon traits stacking if necessary and that’ll probably allow most traits to be useful below water.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
This whole discussion is probably better suited to a CDI aimed at underwater combat, but here’s some brainstorming on how terrestrial traits that don’t follow the above rules can be made to work:
Zephyr’s Boon, Elemental Shielding, Powerful Auras: Currently, elementalists have no means through which they can generate auras underwater except through high tier traits or skill combos, even though there’s no reason why auras shouldn’t work underwater, making these traits less useful. We also need (well, want) new underwater utility skills. Seems like there’s an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone here.
Coated Bullets: This is a difficult one, since the engineer’s harpoon gun doesn’t really play nice with piercing shots. One possibility could be to make the torpedoes and floating bombs create a cone of shrapnel when they explode, doing damage in a cone-shaped pattern. Or they could just have the ability to explode multiple times – after all, Explosive Shot having the ability to pierce is no sillier than a torpedo with multiple warheads.
Juggernaut: Come up with a new, underwater-only kit that behaves similar to the flamethrower, but uses something that works underwater – electricity, sonic emissions, currents of supercooled water – and apply Juggernaut to this.
Reinforced Shield: Grants toughness when wielding a harpoon gun and reduces recharge on Net Wall
(all symbol-related traits): Place a symbol graphic on the top and bottom of Symbol of Light, and possible on the sides of Spear Wall. These are now symbols for the purposes of traits.
Focused Mastery: Reduces the recharge of skills 4 and 5 on both spear and trident. (This makes it competitive to traits that reduce the recharge on all skills of a single weapon)
Right-Hand Strength: Also applies to spears.
Radiant Fire: Reduces recharge of Purify
Honorable Shield: Gain toughness when wielding a spear, and reduces recharge of Spear Wall and Refraction.
(traits that convert locational skills like wells, consecrations, etc to ground-targeted): Using the ‘throw out a slow-moving orb and activate twice to place’ system would work here. Of course, the main problem is that most of the skills these traits affect are not currently available underwater.
Cleansing Conflagration: Vortex cleanses conditions on allies with every pulse and has a shorter recharge.
Duellist’s Discipline: Illusionary Whaler has a longer range and a shorter recharge (This would mean that Whaler would get a 1500 range, although I think it should still need to be within 1200 to cast – it means, however, that the Whaler doesn’t need to follow so quickly if the target moves.)
Warden’s Feedback: Slipstream now reflects projectiles, and recharges faster.
Greater Marks: Also applies to Feast and Frozen Abyss. (Considering the difference in recharge, applying it to all 2-5 trident skills seems overly powerful)
Piercing Arrows: Also applies to harpoon gun attacks.
Off-Hand Training: Reduces recharge and increases range of skills 4 and 5 on spear and harpoon gun.
Intimidation Training: Also applies to jellyfish.
Dual-Wielding: Applied to spears. If you want an explanation, you get a spear haft jammed into your gut. (Additional explanation: Currently, it’s not possible to dual-wield as a warrior with a ranged weapon, making Dual-Wielding effectively a melee trait.)
Quick Breathing: Okay, this one has me more stumped than Cleansing Conflagration did…
Now, you’ll notice here that I haven’t got anything for the falling traits. That’s because I really have no idea on them. Mind you, they’re mostly used for mobility and jumping puzzles anyway, so it’s probably not a big deal. Maybe make them trigger when diving into the water from above, or when a float or sink effect causes them to hit the surface or bottom respectively.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Gonna post this again. I posted it in the vertical thread… but it’s more horizontal. So just in case it went unread:
“what about Town clothes?
I like to role play and whatnot and the selection of town clothes is is… well.. horrible.
Adding more town clothes could give progression not just cosmetically. I’m thinking of crafting. What if there was a tier progression of town clothes our characters could craft? (This game could seriously use some nice dresses!) And you don’t need to limit it to Tailor (thinking cloth). I think all armour crafters should be able to do this. I can’t think of many ideas for weapon crafters, but I’m sure there are items they could each make for main hand cosmetics.
Maybe even race specific town clothes recipes (along with universal ones of course)? For example Sylvari could have more plant like recipes.
This doesn’t need to be a new tier though, add the recipes in for low to high level crafters.
Surely town clothes are easier on the art team than armours? Right?"
Also… dyeable weapons perhaps?
Gonna post this again. I posted it in the vertical thread… but it’s more horizontal. So just in case it went unread:
“what about Town clothes?
I like to role play and whatnot and the selection of town clothes is is… well.. horrible.Adding more town clothes could give progression not just cosmetically. I’m thinking of crafting. What if there was a tier progression of town clothes our characters could craft? (This game could seriously use some nice dresses!) And you don’t need to limit it to Tailor (thinking cloth). I think all armour crafters should be able to do this. I can’t think of many ideas for weapon crafters, but I’m sure there are items they could each make for main hand cosmetics.
Maybe even race specific town clothes recipes (along with universal ones of course)? For example Sylvari could have more plant like recipes.
This doesn’t need to be a new tier though, add the recipes in for low to high level crafters.
Surely town clothes are easier on the art team than armours? Right?"Also… dyeable weapons perhaps?
This was one of my favourite posts from the original discussion thread, so I’m glad you’ve brought it over here. I agree, and I think it should expand into crafting RP items. Mugs/glasses that can be lifted in a toast or thrown in someone’s face, chairs one or two may sit in, and other furniture.
I think many of the townclothes options are/were actually costumes, when we were hoping for functional outfits. These should be easier to make simply due to the fact that they have no combat movement required.
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
I couldnt really be bothered to wade through 12 pages of duble/tripple/quadrupple post “statements” so if this has be said already, I agree.
Anyhoo; Skills. Give us more skills. The skill system is extremely limited currently. Yes I know you folks have added a couple of healing skills. Thats great, honestly it is. Though the ranger new healing skill is kinda rubbish for anyone not running a spirit build, but thats a seperate point.
No my point is as stated; More skillz plz! Additional utility skills & elites to chose from that are class/race/prof specific and also some universal ones.
But here is an additonal idea, again if its been said, I agree!
Make weapons skills interchangeable . That is to say, we have 5 skills per weapon. You could add more skills to each weapon and give us a choice in switching out some weapon skills. I know a few times I tried a weapon set and thought “that would be great for me is skill # was on button # instead” or “if this weapon A had a skill like weapon B on that skill I think is a bit crappy it would be great for me”
Not that the current weapon skills are that bad. To use an example of the ranger longbow changes a few patches back that put stealth on hunters shot, I know some players would like the option of the old skill version. Giving players a choice in builds and styles is a must for longevity, which you are well aware of.
Balance would be harder yes. But thats a challenge you folks have pulled off in the past with GW1 skill system. So you can do it. And it would add in whole new dimension to the game with regards to builds, and give old characters a new lease of life without the need of complete rebuilds, hell even make it required to rebuild the character.
Just more skills please!
Yes they should. They should constantly be implementing new equipped skills to increase build variety and a sense of “freshness” to the game. These skills can just be implemented to PVE only at first, to test for bugs, exploits and to slowly balance them (since there is no public test server) before activating them for WvW and finally PVP.
To not release more skills just because it will affect balance is awfully conservative and is definitely getting stale.
They should also get rid of the whole retraiting rubbish and allow us to save builds which we can change when out of combat. By default everyone is probably specced for dps but occasionally when you PUG, people can have their roles overlap.
It would be nice to allow a condi-specced necro to simply click and change to a power/ds build on the fly instead of having to kick when we already got a condi spammer in the party. It would be nice to be able to have one of the 5 glass cannons in the party swap to something with more support or utility when we need it. It would especially be nice since we won’t feel like we’re pressing the same buttons playing the same build on the same character in the same dungeons or on that same champion farm route all the time.
As we get more skills to choose from, being able to save specs will save people the trouble of having to navigate through them all. More future-proofing = more polish.
But before all that, RELEASE MORE SKILLS PLS. Let the open world PVE be the testing ground.
We were actually told in development that there would be no appearances that we’d see on NPCs that we couldn’t get, through town clothes if not as actual armour. This is a promise that hasn’t come through – Countess Anise’s outfit, for one, is one that a lot of mesmer players especially are jealous of, and if you spend a bit of time wandering around ogling the barmaids you’ll find quite a few more. I don’t know why ArenaNet decided not to make these outfits available to players (difficulty of finding male equivalents to some of the female outfits? The figured they had too many human outfits and not enough of other races?) – but it’s a crying shame that there are quite a few quality outfits in the game that we can’t get, while even with the gem store before the recent removals, players were largely limited to options that were anachronistically modern in appearance, costumes, and the distinctly peasant-esque starting town clothes.
Certainly, unless there’s something I don’t know, the town clothes options for humans at least can be expanded significantly without calling on the art team at all – just make available more of the stuff that’s already been developed and put into the game!
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
-) sturdiness (no durability loss)
This would fit nicely on legendary armor and ascended armor unlock feature.
draxynnic, the major problem I have with the hobo kits is, just like the lack of flexibility in builds, all engineers wielding a kit have that same hobo sack on their back. Engineers are supposed to be quirky and unique and eccentric (at least in my opinion), but there’s not even an option to dye or otherwise modify the appearance of the kits.
Ideas
I’d be a little bit happier with the aesthetics of them if we could alter the look in a variety of ways. These ways could be tied to chosen race, order- heck, even personality, if you want to get really crazy, or other decisions made in the personal story that have very little impact overall. Maybe more looks unlock as you level. It could become its own little engineer meta. It wouldn’t solve all the problems, but it would be a step in the right direction, for sure.
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
Imho factions reputation could be interesting, when done in a non-grindy way. Instead of doing the same events for the faction over and over again, maybe it could work when finding a certain number of unique events for that faction hidden all around the world and do each of those once.
If you do like 20-30 different events in the world or maybe small chains of events (2-3) you can use them to get fraction exp aside from normal ways like doing hearts, maps, whatever you place in here.
Those events would rotate once a week and can be done only once a week, but they would only give some extra fraction xp, aside from normal stuff.
Bear in mind that supporting fractions should be gained retroactively for every heart (etc) done already per any character so people who went for map completions wont get in bad positions.
Please make fractions reputation and make it a way to obtain cultural armors.
Support, in short this is Healing and Boons, but also other effects such as Wards and Reflection.
- In addition, Healing Power should directly effect the effectiveness of certain boons, both new and existing. Such as Protection, say it reduces 20% base damage + (Healing Power / 25). So having say 1250 healing power would allow you to put out Protection reduce 70% of direct damage. (very rough example)
- Add new boons such as: Barrier, absorb damage up to a set amount, stacking in intensity up to 5 stacks. 20 + (6 x lvl) + Healing x 2.6) Example: 1250 HP would absorb 3750 per stack, up to a grand total of 18750 damage.
- Increase boon removal or manipulation in direct proportion to any increase of
This is such a great idea that I feel reminded of something that has been posted months ago but sadly mostly has been ignored because there was a lot of rumble about other “critical” posts such as ascended gear.
GW2 “buff” system is rather simple – and that is fine. Players can learn all effects within one visit of the wiki. What changes if player stats directly affect a boon’s effectiveness? Player’s can easily understand that a support character’s Regen ALREADY heals more than a let’s say Zerker’s.
But why a full-on Zerker can cast the exact same protection as a full support ele/guard/engineer is rather odd?!
This idea is great, number tweaking is important though. The base boon should still be a “buff” while the full-throttle boon shoudln’t make or break combat. On the top of my head with protection: Range would go from 20%-55% with full investment.
Categories
Damage
- Fury
- Might
- Bleeding
- Burning
- Vulnerability
CC
- Blind
- Chilled
- Confusion
- Crippled
- all other conditions
Support
- Aegis
- Prot
- Regen
- Swiftness
I have several ideas on how to implement these ideas. One would be a to have three respective trait lines, call them sub-professions.
These would naturally have a new stat called control/support/damage-effectiveness which alternates respective boons/conditions.
Also respective traits would be affecting certain boons/conditions so one can have a maximum of three boons/conditions affected. Even more choices <3
_This would reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally boost diversity
What do you guys think of this?? I would especially ask Lost Witch, Yoh, Diogo Silva and Nike since I read your posts with most interest. Even if some ideas are contradicting each other
Happy holidays,
D I V A
(edited by D I V A.6018)
In regard to my last post.
D I V A pointed out something rather interesting.
My argument about how massively favor DPS over Control and Support ins’t just about the skills, but stats as well.
- Power = Direct Damage
- Precision + Crit% = Direct Damage
- Condition Damage = Damage over Time
- Condition Duration = Damage over Time, and partially Control (Torment, Chill, Weekness, Blind, etc)
- Toughness = Defense
- Vitality = Defense
- Healing Power = Support/Defense
- Boon Duration = Support/Defense
So out of 9 attributes, 5 are for DPS, 1 for control, 4 defense, 2 support.
That’s kinda skewed don’t ya think?
I thought that was an interesting observation, don’t you?
(edited by Yoh.8469)
+ Mounts
Asura’s waypoints is faster and enough. It will prevent overloading issues and NPC obstruction too. Also, it feel more appreciable to me to see my character go afoot in his journey, dodging and fighting ennemies instead of running like a steamroller across countries without looking at the landscape. We’re adventurers and the world is so rich and beautiful ! And it can be enrich
Yes, yes, YES!
I really love the idea.
*There is just one problem. *
Mount combat.
I would say that when you want to attack from the mount you would jump on the ground. It can’t work like town clothes to disappear when attacked.
When you fight and have mount it can be your pet, just like ranger pets.
(Just make additional buttons over the area when rangers have their pets, elementalists attunements etc.)
Then everyone can catch special pets all over the maps to ride them.
I already proposed to make catching them like this:
You talk to the friendly animal (you can use ranger pets), then it triggers little instance when you fight elite/weak champion and a pack supporting them. After the fight you get one animal, then you take some time to tame it. Maybe it goes near you but you cant ride it yet, after taming the pet is yours.
I would make them as thought as ranger pets thou and on kill they would disappear until you go out of combat.
Mount’s can be used only on maps, not in dungeons.
I would allow them in WvW thou. It would be nice addition.
Thats how I see mount system.
It would make really fine horizontal progression.
(not that with mount you would get like 150-160% total speed boost, but it would not stack with any other boosts)
Mounts really have a nice place in short trips and side quests.
So out of 9 attributes, 4 are for DPS, 1 for control, 4 defense, 2 support.
That’s kinda skewed don’t ya think?I thought that was an interesting observation, don’t you?
Precision can be a support stat in some builds, if they work through proc-on-crit effects/traits.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
So out of 9 attributes, 4 are for DPS, 1 for control, 4 defense, 2 support.
That’s kinda skewed don’t ya think?I thought that was an interesting observation, don’t you?
Precision can be a support stat in some builds, if they work through proc-on-crit effects/traits.
Ah, touche. Your quite right, but it’s first and primary function is that of DPS.
Now if direct heal skills (besides your self heal) could crit, then that would be a horse of another color.
Or if there were a much more traits that have support/defense based on crit procs.
But in either case, it requires you do deal DPS first, and as such it kind of shows you where Arenanets focus is. Damage first, everything else second.
Please make more runes/sigils closer to optimal, there are so many varieties yet many never see use.
Right now it’s getting like skills in GW1 – so many to choose from, but the practical options are few.
Decide on a set that would be considered “balanced”, then work the rest so that they can compete – will open up a lot more build varieties.
(and please tweak those that are actual vertical progressions, eg Generosity>>Purity, so that they work in a different way, and not just functionally superior)
+ New Races/Classes
Arena.net already have difficulties to give time to every race and manage each class. Asking for new ones when they can’t take care of the existing ones will be regrettable if implemented.
When Arena.net have the ability to develop lore and story for every races, new ones can be considered, but not currently.
Also, new classes mustn’t be implement for satisfaying the “new class” envy, but to add a completely non-existent and solid gameplay mechanisms.
I know that races are pain when it comes to armors, but I would really want to get more and more races into the game. (Psst, KODAN FOREVER!)
As for classes I think we have everything we need.
On the other hand going for specializations would be great.
I would see it like the school system. You specialize more and more into some ways you work, just like real live.
You are a guardian and that is abase class.
Then you can specialize to become “defender” and you loose the ability to fight 2 handed weapons but you get some neat bonuses when you use a shield and any other one handed weapons. It would work like very defensive guardian build with extra tiers.
On the other hand you could become a “holy knight” and loose shield but focus on two handed weapons or torch with one handed weapons, but you would not get any additional boosts to defensive, yet a lot to offensive.
I think both paths can have progression not bound to level.
You should be able to switch them like crafting: NPC will do it, you can pay (very little or none fee) and you will be swapped to another specialization to exactly the point when you stopped your previous progress in this path.
You can add a way to swap auras around guardian holy/dark. It can be purely cosmetic.
Elementalist idea
Specialization in here could go 2 ways (5 ways)
Specialization in any attunement. Like “Fire Master”. You would regain the ability to use 2 weapon sets but you can only use fire spells. Of course additional tiers to make fire better, stronger etc.
The same with mastery in earth, ice, thunder.
The last one would be an “Arcane Master”. He could use all schools like now, but his spells would be weaker (on the level of normal elementalists). He would have more utility than strength.
There can be any other ways to improve classes you have now, but I would not add purely another class. Maybe aside from 3rd heavy class, but subclasses/specializations would be way better.
(edited by Septemptus.7164)
Cesmode, that’s what this polymock is that everyone speaks of. Apparently GW1 had it? So everyone keeps hoping their minis one day will battle in the polymock arenas.
YES, PLEASE.
Since the conversation of stats came up, and the overly skewed nature of them, and DPS in general, I had a thought.
I can’t believe I am going to say this but, maybe we should have a new stat?
I mean Magic Find was phased out, and good residence, but shouldn’t we consider something to replace it?
I think something the was clearly Control orientated, since it don’t really have a stat, besides partially Condition Duration.
So how about something that reduces recharge time on certain CC skills?
So Daze, Stun, Knockback/down, Launch, Sink, Float and Fear all have their recharges reduced by x%, with a hard cap of 50%?
I’m just floating that idea out there.
•Account bound all magical items you use on your character. Why can’t I use my Guardian’s old gear on my Warrior? It’s not like I can sell it on the TP. Or do anything at all useful with it.
If you want the looks you can transmute it to while items and transmute it again to the final item, but it sucks….
It should be account bound on use instead of soulbound on use.
The way it work now is very bad for anyone who wants to just try any other classes.
Horizontal Progression: Those things that make being a max level character enjoyable.
Solo dungeons would be nice. I would rather enjoy a branching path or progressive challenge solo dungeon. Preferably with interesting puzzles, mechanics or surprising twists. I’ve had more then my fill of rock ‘em sock ’em robot dungeons. Wailing on a boss with high health till he dies isn’t fun or engaging.
Good meaningful story Interesting characters would be nice. I am not a fan of Scarlet, for many reasons. Not the least of which is how she was introduced. Subtlety is a lost art. We don’t have to save the entire planet from falling apart every single story arc. Stories shouldn’t be rushed either.
Time limits are bad I didn’t get to do a lot of the recent living story stuff. The limited time windows on them were stupid. It made the “events” more about grinding achievements then enjoying an experience. Much like the world bosses, I can’t wait all day for things to pop up so I can “achieve” something. And now, because the window has passed, I won’t be able to even try anymore. A “relive this historic <whatever>” feature would be appreciated.
Collecting Collecting things for purpose is fun, especially when that collecting is finite. Scavenger hunts for things/NPCs/items to decorate, populate or display in our home instances would be cool. Not grinding for them. More akin to the Black Moa Chick in GW1. Maybe give us the chance to build an actual home in our home instance to keep our things?
Unlocking I miss the quests from GW1 that let me unlock skills. I wouldn’t mind seeing something like that for future skills in GW2. Finish a quest chain/instance thing to unlock some skill. You could keep your skill point grind alternative unlock too if you wanted. I think using event chains to unlock other things might be fun too. Like unique dyes or mini pets. I’d rather they were instanced chains. Waiting for Dynamic Events to pop is like waiting in traffic.
Polymock I liked Polymock in GW1. Finally implementing Polymock in GW2 would be high on my wish list. It could also tie into some of the other things I mentioned above. Collecting game pieces, displaying trophies in your home instance, etc.
Achievement progression You’ve already done this somewhat in WvW with World Rank progression. I’m more interested in PvE. Reminiscent of the lightbringer/sunspear/ebon vanguard/deldrimor/asura/norn title tracks of GW1. If you’re gonna make us grind for things anyway, why not give us perpetual rewards instead of one shots that may or may not be anything good? Profession based effects would be the best. Though anything would be nice. I. E. Max your ooze slaying achievement line and get a damage boost against oozes, or a damage resistance to their attacks. Or an added effect when you attack them (In the ooze example, maybe a chance to hit them during their long evades, or a chance to break their long blocks).
Just a few ideas and thoughts. Good luck out there.
I think something the was clearly Control orientated, since it don’t really have a stat, besides partially Condition Duration.
I thought about a similar aproach like your previous idea. An overall decrease in CC effectivess (including hard cc).
Idea 1
Take Engineer’s Big Ol’ Bomb. (curently launches 400’)
- Zero control-effectiveness means it launches for 50’
- with full “control-effectiveness” (let’s say 30 in that trait line) will launch 500’
Idea 2
Take Necromancer’s DS#3 fear
- Zero “control-effectiveness” gives a zero % chance to bypass defiant and stability
- 30 “controll-effectiveness” gives a 50% chance to pierce those effects. Even blocking.
Obviously with that huge investment, you won’t we able to perma cc while also dealing huge DPS (warrior mace/shield+hammer as example).
Hehe, it would even solve the problem of defiant in PvE.
DIVA
My main issue with this game is the skill mechanism. I have tried to bring countless people into this game, even buying it as a gift for some.
All the feedback I have received has been about skill mashing 12345 1234 1234 1234 1111 1 6 6 6
It’s not a problem for me at all, but 5/6 of my MMO friends think it’s like a MMO for children where you don’t have to think for yourself.
I have to agree there may be too few skills on the skill bars for people to have real fun with their classes.
Other MMO’s I have played forced you to really think before going into battle.
I.E LOTRO, when playing the” Mesmer class” you would have to fear one out of the mob of three just too survive the encounter. I like having to think in battles and not just run in 1234 and that’s that.
Im not trying to talk down any suggestion you made, since most of them are very good suggestions, but, there’s alot of them that have nothing to do with Horizontal Progression, which is the topic of the thread.
Some of them don’t look like that, indeed. But not only is “horizontal progression” a very loose term, but I have also written some things in there which act as further-growing foundation to even certain horizontal progressions that I have stated throughout my posts.
I actually had to slap my fingers to not post certain stuff which definitely was not horizontal progression and tried to give some of my points the explanation of why I believed them to be horizontal. Again, loose term, and I’m partly sorry for Chris and everyone else who is meticulously reading through all this stuff… but if the end result is worth it, then the only thing I can do is provide thought-through stuff that is hopefully worth a read and remotely understandable.
I just want to say i absolutely love all these ideas you put out they’re amazing in my opinion
I asked this once before in the PVE/Living World CDI thread but never did get an answer. Seeing as it’s a question you created (and seem to repeatedly ask), I can only hope you have an answer for this too. I’ll rephrase it this time.
What games do you devs look at as a reference for what you want to see in game in terms of horizontal progression?
Yes, yes, YES!
Please, don’t quote me when you’ve read diagonnally and missed the most important thing about my post that it is a list of things to NOT add to the game.
Just read titles is bad.
a DPS meter, Support meter and Tank meter should
Do not ask for Holy Trinity ! Having DPS with support/berzerker/tough/control orientation is better in many way.
And a DPS meter is BAD ! There are many things useful in fight that can’t be translate in DPS. Heal, surviving, boost, control, rescue mates, manage mechanism, kite mob, protect mates. The game is sweatly design that you can’t sum a fight to a calculated value. But it’s what other players will do if meters are implemented !
Now while Faction achievements/quests are a nice idea. There are quite a few problems with it.
First off, Do you need to be an active member from said faction by having done the personal story. Not everyone is keep on going through the personal story.
Are the rewards between factions the same or different. If there are armor sets involved than I can see issues with people having chosen a faction already but wanting an armor set from a rival faction. So unless switching factions is implemented I see this as an issue.
Some have noted wanting retroactive rewards. Personally I say no, let people start on an equal footing. The idea is to get people out there not to have some be able to skip most of it already from the start.
To facilitate people being in zones I would restructure the way dailies are currently done. I never understood why anet didn’t implement a hard cap on the dailies. Do 5 dailies and you should not be able to gain more points.
Instead of the current method I would put in a daily meta. The meta would award the achievement points when 5 dailies have been done. The dailies themselves can award small rewards. Not all of them, but those that require more specific tasks. Like the LS dailies can award LS related currency. WvW can award badges or for say the 2 rank achievement it can reward the least awarding wxp potion. Other options being small currency or karma. The Meta daily would award between 8-10 points to not offset current progress in total AP gain per day.
This can free up time for AP hunters do go out and do different things without losing out. More casual people would be able to gain points faster and not feel left behind to much when they miss one.
If you can make every Order quest without being of the Order, you destroy the purpose of these Order Quests that is to make you involved in your Order plans/duties/plots. So the answer is : Yes, you need to have joined an Order.
You join an Order with the level 30 quest, It’s not hard. If people don’t want to join an Order/make their Personal Story, It’s a way to motivate them.
It’s a way to make our choices meaningful on long term !
Personaly, I play mmorpg game with a very cosmetic adjustment. What is important to me is that i look good, after that i can start getting good.
Right now i feel that there’s too little options to choose from. It’s also very important that your outfit fits your characters personality, this applies mostly to the human of course;
For example, a Noble female light armor might not want to show too much skin. Most light armors for female is only covering the most private areas and nothing else. Still i have no other choice than to wear these outfits for my Noble who should probably look more like Countess Anise and Lord Faren to be honest.
So i suggest that we add more cultural armors for all the races.
This concept also applies to the profession you are. As an engineer i font want to dress in scales or tight leokard. I want things that look more… Engineery. This applies to all the professions. Take a look at your concepts for GW1 armors. There’s alot of inspiration for you to get from there.
If you can make every Order quest without being of the Order, you destroy the purpose of these Order Quests that is to make you involved in your Order plans/duties/plots. So the answer is : Yes, you need to have joined an Order.
You join an Order with the level 30 quest, It’s not hard. If people don’t want to join an Order/make their Personal Story, It’s a way to motivate them.
It’s a way to make our choices meaningful on long term !
And I disagree. Forcing people to do A so they can do B is rarely a good way to motivate people.
3. Currency Conversion: Since there are so many currencies in the game each specific to different sectors of the game, it would be wise have the ability to convert currencies. For example: I do not play fractals but find some of the Fractal rewards appealing, but have no other way to get these rewards. Or I need a new set of ascended trinkets but used the last of my laurels on ascended weapon/armor recipes. I may have masses of 1 particular dungeon token or WvW badges or Karma which could be converted to the currency i require at that moment in time. which makes things less time gated and forcing ppl to do something they don’t enjoy to get something they want/need.
I would love a way to swap these.
Maybe some dungeon tokens or karma, ascended materials like bloodstone into dragonite ore and imperial fragments or those 2 together.
There are lots of possibilities and of course you have to be balanced by the aquisition time, but it could work nice.
4. HoM for GW2: A place to be proud of and continuously build to improve upon, where all ur achievements/titles/armor sets and mins can be displayed. See GW1 HoM, say no more
Just as I wrote about GWAMM, the master title, we really need things to measure some big scale progress.
We have HoM in GW2.
Maybe by any chance norns or humans could find it and restore it.
Maybe some stone dwarfs would be awakened by it’s magic and they would work as its guardians and restorers?
It can be connected to raise of destroyers…
There are so many possibilities.
I have to add that I loved HoM in GW1. It was just so great in many ways…
It saddens me when I go in there in GW2.
5. Make use of dead maps: All these champ farms have created a large influx of players to certain maps i.e Queens dale and Frostgorge (I do it myself occasionally), but this has made other maps less attractive to go to. I love going to a map that’s full of life, players everywhere each doing their own thing, weather it be in groups/guilds or solo. A place that I have always been fond of is Timberline Falls (but it’s completely dead), this is just 1 example, there are many more. Perhaps Weapon Skins and titles specific to zones which require items from that specific zone to craft said skins, thus creating constant player usage of each zone/map.
Thats the old topic.
I would say – make maps unique with some LS, like Kessex now is only area where remains of toxic alliance are. That is great and I hope it will never change.
That’s all I would do to maps.
We need new maps and a way to explore them and see changes in them.
Very little WPs in there (2-3 max), maybe after months another 2 and thats it.
In that time the map needs to evolve. Maybe some pact camps will be created, maybe events will change around them. We need world that is alive.
Then after some time map will become kinda frozen when it will be established.
We need more maps that count to world map.
6. Build Templates: This is a big one and needed so much, Perhaps keep the cost of resetting traits by purchasing crystals from the traits guy at the current cost, consume a crystal when loading a new build, by loading a new build the armor and trinkets will be automatically slotted as per build providing the armor and trinkets are in your inventory.
Simple yes.
I would say rewamping zones and adding to them is important. I already wrote that I love the idea of regional achievements, but new zones should be really a priority. It’s just because many people like me feel like suffocating when we run the same zones over and over again and for half of the year I had to revisit almost all of them to do some LS that forced me to repeat the same things on various maps.
So I would say new zones, them please add some regional achievements so we have something fresh and some new things to do in spare time if we want. Not like “it’s the only thing you will get so zones can be reused”, I think we all are past that.
Yeah, I want new zones badly. Not just because it’s fun to explore new places, but because of the stories/lore that could be introduced from places like Far Shiverpeaks, Cantha and Elona. I’m telling you Anet, if you did a Cantha or Elona expansion (or massive patch if you insist on this no expansion thing…I think that’s a mistake though) people would come back for that. People want to know what is going on in those areas.
Lets face it.
We want stories to explore, with many pieces, many informations about the word and all that we knew from GW1, GW2 and more. Try to explore stories you established. We need new lore pieces as bad as maps.
And I disagree. Forcing people to do A so they can do B is rarely a good way to motivate people.
People are forced to level up to make dungeons, fractals, unlock trait points.
People are forced to level up craftsmanship to make ascended items.
People are forced to get armor and weapons before fighting.
People are forced to gather Skill Points to unlock skills.
People are forced to buy 5 skills of the previous tiers to unlocked the next tiers.
People are forced to fill heart to unlocked the karma vendor option.
People are forced to make Racial Personal Story before Order Personal Story before Pact Personal Story.
If you want to make Order Quests, it’s not offending to have to choose an Order as prerequisite.
7. Mini pets: I have a few mini’s but never use them as i see no point, perhaps if they have an ability like renew food buffs when they expire (providing u have some in ur inventory to renew with) or +2 to each stat or +5 to a specific stat certain mini’s connected to certain stats etc etc. this would not only make them more appealing to use but also more appealing to collect.
I greatly, greatly disagree with this. Minis are supposed to be vanity items only. They should not add stats or do anything to give an actual in-game advantage to players. Especially since so many minis are in the gem shop. And I’m saying this as someone who actually owns minis from that shop and would have that advantage over others. They are just cute pets to have following you around.
If they want to do something with the minis it should be something like polymock.
I agree very much.
Part 1
The current stateIf you take all the underwater areas in the game it at the very least makes up around 4 entire zones, or roughly 1/8 of the current playable map. So why is 1/8 of the world in such terrible shape as far as combat and content goes, and why has there never been a serious discussion or anything addressing underwater development from Anet (as far as I have searched)?
So to start I will list some of the current problems with underwater content that drives many players from it entirely.
- Current trait builds have little to no added benefits for underwater combat.
- There are no joined underwater/on land traits, so pretty much everyone suffers underwater.
- Breathers cannot be crafted, the highest quality of breather is “rare”, and they only are obtainable as a rare drop Tequatl or on the TP for an exorbitant price.
- Breathers only have 3 available skins (white, grey, and red)
- There are no World Bosses for underwater content.
- Dungeons with underwater parts are avoided or disliked due to the disadvantage of
playing in them.- There are no Major Dynamic events that take place underwater, and those dynamic events that do are often flooded by mobs and undoable by single people (talking about the inquest event in bloodtide near Sorrowful Waypoint.
- Ground targeted utilities have no use underwater as you can only target surfaces.
- Thief, Necro, Guardian, and Elementalist have only 1 elite that works underwater.
Warrior has 2, however one is a banner (see above for ground targeted skill problems)- No races have any underwater Elites.
- Most Area of Effect skill ranges are impossible to determine while underwater, unless against/near a surface.
- There is a lack of diversity with underwater enemies. (dragon corrupted -primodus, sharks, 1 whale, inquest, pirates, krait, hylek, baracudas, skelk, wurms, jellyfish, maybe 3 largos, and drakes)
We have traits that add dmg for land and water combat, but thats it.
I have to agree we need more water areas.
Maybe some archipelagos in center of the map near karka island.
Only few real islands with merchants and fishermans and a lot of vast underwater areas to explore. They can look so great and I love how underwater works in GW2.
what i miss is a little more shiny for the wvw players. ok, i understand. we all want to avoid pve farmers in wvw. but we need more the ascendeds as anybody else. military always need the best weapons. pls let us to buy ascended chest for badge+laurer. like this we need time and active playing
If they do that you will see a sea of PvE farmers.
Besides I farmed mats for ascended in WvW. I don’t know where do you play since my server (Underworld is one of the most empty servers since S1, ask people), but getting ascended mats in WvW is extremely easy.
A REAL cartography achievement, not this go to X point then bounce to Y point, etc. GW1’s cartography demanded you visit maps and corners of maps that otherwise were ignored because there wasn’t really anything (quests) in them. A player had to become very familiar with the entire region, and it took a bit of time.
And it was an issue for many players so people created a mods for that.
No thank you.
I don’t want exploring like this.
i dont see what kind of progression you could have from that is more like not boring grinding which is very good still
Well you have a slowly growing collection of treasure-maps and gradual rewards coming with it. Progression is horizontal, because you don’t get more powerful when completing one of the 25 maps.
If you define horizontal progression as gear progression without stats, you could simply unlock new skins instead of minis for completing each family. A centaur-champion slayer unlocks centaur-themed armor.
I want Guild Halls, like in Gw1. This would be a great way for horizontal progression and a great way to be able to interact with your guild.
I will back up the idea with another thought.
Make them more alive. Let NPCs wounder around.
Make more like a city, not few NPCs and thats all.
I would see guild halls more like home instance, and home instance more like HoM.
Which brings me to this point —- Anet, do you see how many times references have been made to the original GW? Granted, it is not a perfect game, but if something is ‘broken’ (several things in GW2), why reinvent an already existent fix? Please listen to us veteran players when we suggest some mechanic similar to the ancestral game.
Mechanics can be hard to connect, but I would say many things that were in GW1 are needed in GW2.
GvG, Guild Halls, Alliances, elite instances, enemies that fight with builds instead of sea of HP, statless items (or items with swapable stats), and many more.
Again this goes also to the fact that people who wanted to read stories were able to and GW1 had so much lore that you try to cut us off.
Please remember horizontal progression is also gathering lots of lore in game.
This bores some and for the others is the reason to play.
You should never expact people to read, but ability to read will be used by 30% of people for sure and they will be more bound to the game that way.
So add books, add rich dialogs or even journals for a character (similar to personal story?)
Maybe make a collection of books that you discovered in place of personal story (my journal will be one, first position) and allow people to read all books you fount in Tyria them in spare time?
There is plenty of room for lore in this game and it’s a horizontal progression also.
Horizontal Changes related to Armor: The following would be upgrading componants that could be applied to armor like dye, so let’s start with that one.
- Dye Duplication: If you are going to keep dye soulbound. Allow Alts to copy a dye from one character to another. So let’s say I find a Celestial Dye and put it on my Main, now I get a dye duplicator and copy the Celestial Dye and put it on an Alt, another duplicator, another Alt etc. These duplicators could drop in the same manner as dyes or maybe you earn them by completing certain quests or there is always the Cooking Craft.
- Blended Material Component: If armor is made of different material it will have a different look. For example a Gossamer/Cotton blend Light armor might have deeper saturation levels but if it was a Gossamer/Silk blend it might be shinier. The same could be done with Tanning agent for Medium Armor or Alloys for Heavy.
- Paterns: Stripes(horizontal, vertical, diagonal), dots(small, medium, Large), checks, tie-dye, camouflage, heck even paisley would be an option. Each pattern would Not be armor weight dependent so the same pattern drop could be applied to light/medium/heavy.
- Grandmaster Upgrades: Upgrading armor looks would also be possible by using an elite crafting option available to Grandmaster Crafters.
Light: Beading, Patching, Embroidering
Medium: Stamping, Alternate Material Layering, Studding
Heavy: Gilding, Emblazoning, Etching
I LOVE THOSE IDEAS!
I hope they will come to be!
Imho factions reputation could be interesting, when done in a non-grindy way. Instead of doing the same events for the faction over and over again, maybe it could work when finding a certain number of unique events for that faction hidden all around the world and do each of those once.
If you do like 20-30 different events in the world or maybe small chains of events (2-3) you can use them to get fraction exp aside from normal ways like doing hearts, maps, whatever you place in here.
Those events would rotate once a week and can be done only once a week, but they would only give some extra fraction xp, aside from normal stuff.Bear in mind that supporting fractions should be gained retroactively for every heart (etc) done already per any character so people who went for map completions wont get in bad positions.
Please make fractions reputation and make it a way to obtain cultural armors.
Well my whole point of doing a variety of content once to unlock higher tiers of reputation was to get rid of doing the same events over and over. And why that timegating, something players obviously hate a lot?
Hearts were an afterthought to the game to guide players who come from “?-MMOS” to GW2 through the maps. I don’t like how this is turned into main-content. They should rather improve the event-system imho instead of having players do that static content again.
I’d love if reputation works 100% without time-gating. You also should be able to pause your progression for as long as you want and continue when you feel like it. If you’d have a reputation monthly – to do 30 events per month – and you have 25, those 25 shouldn’t be deleted once the new month begins.
a suggestion how faction reputation could be implemented:
- you get a codex from the faction leader
- in this codes you gradually unlock lore-pages, artwork and small stories about the faction by completing faction related collections.
example:
find and insert 15 specific centaur-weapons (non-tradeable trophy-items you get as a guaranteed event reward (gold medal) for a unique centaur-related event; you’ll only get one at any of these events in the game).
—> unlocks in the codex: A lore entry about centaur battles + a centaurslayer-weapon
—> unlocks in the world: When you wield that weapon / have it in your inventory, some new events will trigger in centaur-related zones. These have +300% higher droprates of faction-related questitems.
In order to keep players together, have a considerable bonus magicfind to a certain faction per week.
PS: make it harder (more objectives for these events) to get a gold medal.
I wonder what’s the biggest obstacle for creating new events in the game. Sometimes when reading dev-quotes I get the feeling that voice-overs are.
Would you guys be happy with more events, even though there were no voice-overs?
I wonder what’s the biggest obstacle for creating new events in the game. Sometimes when reading dev-quotes I get the feeling that voice-overs are.
Would you guys be happy with more events, even though there were no voice-overs?
yes I would be
same goes for added personal story/order stories- I get the idea voice overs are a barrier here too