CDI- Character Progression-Horizontal
I know this idea will be pretty expensive for A-net because they will need to design thousands of them, but the player who gets them will stand out in the could because no one will ever get his type of looking gears
Thousands? We’ve had maybe a dozen or so armor sets since launch, and now you’re suggesting thousands? That are extremely rare, so most of the user base doesn’t get them?
I think this CDI is interesting, but some of you guys are suggesting things which would take hundreds of man-months to complete. I don’t get the feeling that there will be that level of resourcing.
I’m hoping Chris comes back with estimates of implementation effort soon.
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org
Alright, I think it’s finally time for me to post here, though I might still forget a few things.
- Dyes
As many before have said, these should be made account wide
- Weapons
As many others too, I definitely think more weapons should be available to classes (MH Pistol for mesmer), and maybe also new weapons ? (Two Handed Axe !)
- Skills
Addition of more skills, not just 1 healing skill but something like 2 new utilities, but especially elites.
Indeed, 3 elites is pretty much very low, not giving a lot of choice. Also there is a problem of balancing elite skills between categoris and professions.
By categories, I mean there are at least 2 : elites with short CD, pretty useful but not that strong (like Signet of Rage or Basilisk Venom) and the elites that are “strong” (at least supposed to be) with long CD (example : Battle Standard, Time Warp).
Every class should have at least 1 elite from each category. Some professions have only long CDs.
Other problem is design too focused on sPvP, making most of elites garbage in PvE and sometimes in WvW too.
Look at the elites in PvE. Warriors have Signet of Rage and Battle Standard : nice.
Mesmers only have Time Warp. Rangers have only Rampage as One.
Guardians have all 3 not very good but not bad either. Necromancers have the golem for some CC or Lich form for damage, but still not that great.
And then …. some troubles.
Thieves : Thieves Guild but they die too fast so it’s useless, Venom is useless since there’s defiant and Dagger Storm is meh.
Engineer : Everything is plain garbage. Elixir X and Mortar are equally useless while the Supply Crate is just lackluster : not completely useless but not good either.
Elementalists : Tornado is useless because defiant, the Glyph is useless because the elemental dies very fast anyway. FGS is only useful in some situations (please hug the wall !)
- Harvesting Items
As was suggested before, these should be made real account wide : you purchase one and you’re able to get one soulbound for each of your characters, especially since it’s pretty expensive.
The same should go for gem skins : you buy a weapon or an armor, you should be able to use it more than once.
- Save Templates (all modes)
Because yes, we should definitely be able to save templates for our characters. QoL is one of the most important thing for long term and hardcore players.
This had been said before it was under radar for sPvP first because it was more difficult for PvE/WvW. How come it’s still not released ? It means it should be easy for PvP but we still have no news.
By the way, it should be released for all modes at the same time, not for sPvP only and then the rest.
- Save Gear
We should be able to save gear combinations, a la Outfitter (WoW Addon) : one click to change your whole armor/weapons/trinkets or just a few pieces.
See for instance this : http://media-curse.cursecdn.com/attachments/2/797/a451e83d2dc60254c6f4096b439ba117.png
- Better Sorting of Inventory
Because the inventory is often a mess, we should be able to sort things, a la Ark Inventory (WoW Addon) : it allow us to split it into different categories, different columns. Very convenient to separate gears/consumables etc …
See how great it is here : http://www.swotti.com/tmp/swotti/cacheYXJRAW52ZW50B3J5T3ROZXJZLU90AGVYCW==/imgarkinventory3.jpg
For these 3 last things, it would be pretty easy to achieve by just allowing players to create their own addons to do this …
My next post will be about fractals and ascended, because there’s so much to talk about this !
Here is a reiteration of my top 3 horizontal progression ideas. They are not necessarily my most wanted, but they are things I would like to see.
More Skillz – I would like to see a slow, gradual, well balanced, release of skills that players need to work towards getting. Not by skill points, but by some other means, such as leveling a rank in one of the orders or some title. The skills gained would be relevant to the order/title. For example a WvW title could unlock skills that would be more beneficial in WvW.
More Skinz – On a similar line to the skills, I would like to see unlockable skins tied to progress within a title/order rank. Both of these things will add more impact on titles or the orders, especially if order/title specific events were introduced as mentioned in previous posts.
More Toys – Again, following some progression system that unlocks them as you go, I would love to see extra toys added that can either help you move about the map faster (while out of combat), such as mounts, or mini-pets that you can use to have mini fights with other players, like polymock but useable anywhere (while in town clothes). These extra toys would be mostly cosmetic/role play enhancing, with any tangible benefits being tiny. Mounts for example would move no faster than +33% movement speed (non-stackable), but it would remove the need to use speed boosts while out of combat.
So, I’m coming rather late to the party, but’ I’d like to attempt to get my thoughts in here as well.
Rebuild HoM, or build something similar in our home instance (mentioned this in another thread previously)
- Show off our armors
- Show off our titles, maybe have trophies like GW1
- Show off legendary pieces
- Show off minis
More new in-game armor skins for collecting. Not just gloves, or shoulders, or a back piece, but whole sets. Things like Vabbian or FoW that are ‘prestige’ armor skins.
Additionally, some type of character wardrobe for easy storage of extra armor sets.
A PvE locker for skin unlocking. If I earned ‘Mad Memories’ and want to use it’s skin on 2 characters, I should have that option. Additionally, if I purchased an armor set from store, I should be able to use that skin on more than one character, just like we could with costumes in GW1.
More skills for diversity:
- Skill quests for new utility skills
- Signet of capture to gain new elites from special champs
- Unlockable new skill ‘sets’ for existing weapon thru special training or quests
Account bound dye. Some of us would be more willing to play ‘collector’ of the 400+ dye colors if these were account bound. It might also make crafting the unidentified a little more desirable. Additionally, it makes the dye system more alt friendly.
More titles!
- Race and Order reputation titles. Tie some skills to them, similar to GWEN.
- ‘Pact’ title track which allows us to become a member of all 3 orders instead of just 1
- “People know me” 2.0. Give title hunters a reason to hunt titles, and a way to show it off
Someone else mentioned the story mode and dungeon books from GW1. I like that idea and would like to see again. Dungeon books would fit, and could earn a chunk of a selected dungeon token type based on completion %. Maybe region books? (Someone else mentioned region achievements, which I thought were neat) Could be used to gain racial reputation, and maybe earn things like waypoint cost reduction.
Personality choices should mean something. How npc’s react to me, and some of my unique character phrases could be adjusted based on my character’s personality.
Hench or Heroes for instanced content. I know a lot of people don’t like them, but there many that do, and many that may never experience things like dungeons or fractals without them. These should be unlocked and acquired via quests like Nightfall. IE gain Rox as a usable hero after you complete her quest chain and mini mission to gain her entry into Ritlock’s Warband or some such.
Return hexes to the game, and hex removal. Would add another layer to the play. Perhaps make hexes stack duration to help deal with multiple same skill hex users in large scale fights.
Additional options for guild growth, more ways to obtain guild commendations/merits for smaller guilds, etc. I don’t have anything specific in mind, I’m open to ideas, but I’d just like to see more for guilds, to make them more worthwhile. I see too many people in game talk about how pointless it is to be in a guild because you get no specific benefits.
Return of ‘zaishen’ dailies
- Vigil bounty: Go find and kill ‘x’ champ
- Priory expedition: Help such and such with ‘x’ mini dungeon or JP
- Whisper’s mission: Complete ‘x’ path of ‘y’ dungeon
- Pact extermination: Track and kill ‘x’ world boss
If they manage to implement
Guild halls
Order,Faction,Racial based side quests
a living story that ends in a proper rematch with Zhaitan
than im good
I know Chris talked about a general plan for CDIs, which involve casting out nets, and then refining, etc. I think we’re still very much in the net casting phase, which has been extended, refined, and is likely to continue towards the 6th because of the holidays and what not. Even then some of us are still wanting to talk a bit about slightly more refined ideas before then, and so I think the Devs are largely happy with the direction things are going at the moment. Surely they’d step in when things start to not become useful, somewhat with the Top 3 choices helping guide ideas into the more important options.
That being said, I think some of the better ideas would be for things that lessens Dev work, and moves it to some of the players (in fact, I’m creating a tabletop rpg that has the players make their own skills and weapons, using rules to build them). Ideas like: Skin Crafting (lots of small skins pieces that you add together when you craft weapons and armor. Crafting an Orichalcum Blade, and a skin to go along with it. Your Orichalcum Hilt though, could have a different skin). Housing similar to Animal Crossing, etc. Giving the players a ruleset to create their own things means the devs only need to manage the rules, and can leave the creation to players, who might appreciate a larger sense of choice and customization.
I also had an idea, where players would actually run around Tyria and find weapon and utility skill “pieces”, and create their own set of 10 skills (like going to this trainer, completing a task, and getting “range 600” as a reward. Then along with “Teleport”, “Blind 3s”, and “Very small Strike”, you’d create your own Flashing Blade. While we probably won’t see something as amazing as this could be, we could take a step back into a larger circle of customization, and extend that to pre-defined effects that we can add to our current skills. Like adding a Leap Finisher and increasing the Damage of Flashing Blade in exchange for removing the blind, or removing some damage from Backstab, and adding an immoblize or 7 stacks of torment.
This way, players can get a lot more use out of the tools their given compared to the cost of making them in the first place. It might take a bit of time to create 7 hilt and blade skins, but once they’re done, they can be used much of often for more things than if we had 7 more sword skins.
building your own skills out of skill pieces would not only be a nightmare for balancing, the profession-specific feeling would also get lost as well as the possibility for other players to “read” your actions and react the right way.
As far as horizontal system development my top three are
- Open world Housing: There are a ton of buildings in the open world without interiors that could be converted in to houses. Each racial city could have an auctioneer that buys and sells the houses from that region. If you no longer want your house you can resell it through the auctioneer who takes a 10% cut. One house per account must wait one week before selling it.
- Deck System instead of subclasses: Instead of changing core class mechanics offer suggested builds in the form of decks (Stat Set, skill/weapon selection, and traits). Each Deck has a meta-achievement associated with completing content with the specific deck. Once completed gain a title and themed armor set. New Skills/weapons/traits would introduce more decks into the game.
- Faction Missions: Various factions (ex. DR, LA, Order of Whispers, Ascalon Ogres) have mission boards in towns and outposts. You can pick from randomly created missions that will spawn Dynamic Events similar to how guild missions work. These events will be randomized from within a subset of mission types. The scarlet invasions and toxic blooms show that there are many locations around Tyria where ANet can spawn events.
To add actual horizontal progression to this system there would be ranks and titles that can be unlocked. I like the idea that was suggested earlier of the player with the most reputation for given faction having a unique title and unlocking a unique finisher. Items could be purchased with karma from faction vendors with faction rank requirements on the items. The higher rank you are the more locations and difficulty ranges of missions you will have access to.
Possible mission types are as follows.- Bounty (go to x location in the faction’s region to fight y champion or legendary)
- Artifact recovery (go to x location escort associated faction to z artifact)
- Raid (go to x location steal y goods from enemy faction deliver to faction npc)
- Defense (Go to x location defend location from raiders trying to steal z goods)
- Requisitions (Craft x number of y item for related faction)
yes we are still around!
(edited by Shongaqu.5279)
- Open world Housing:
And no one will ever go back to a city because of the 7 hours of loading.
- Open world Housing:
And no one will ever go back to a city because of the 7 hours of loading.
Good point. I suppose they would need to adapt culling to the housing system if it was open world. I’m not saying it’s the easiest option to implement, but I feel players would be more invested in open world vs instanced housing.
yes we are still around!
Wouldn’t the easiest option be to convert the HoM into your personal housing? It’s pretty large, already a personal instance, accessible from anywhere in the world, and returns you to the spot you travelled from.
Hi All,
Happy New Year! Thanks for being so patient with me. Regarding other dev’s posting during this period it is unlikely as it is the holiday period and I don’t expect them to emulate my behavior.
Note this CDI will only end when we are happy for it to do so ( and by we I mean all of us).
I am up to date with all the posts, thanks for all hard work, ideation, and discussion.
We are in the process of pulling the net in now and so I am going to ask you all to do something very difficult now (As in you won’t feel comfortable doing it). Previously I asked you to name your top three ideas. You did, and then everyone discussed them which led to a refocusing of many of your ideas and the birth of some new ones.
What I would like us to do is pick ONE idea that you would hold above all others as it relates to the community as a whole. Note I to found this very difficult but my one is blow. Also note I consider Wardrobe to be QOL, however any Wardrobe ideas that are Systemic or build on existing mechanics can be included.
Please also understand this is not a vote that leads to development, this is part of the ideation process. I would recommend looking at ideas that are built on existing systems or mechanics within the game. This is a nice to have however. Many have mentioned giving info on the relative weight of each idea that is put forward, we should do this after this phase but to be honest (having given it a lot of thought) I wouldn’t want to see this weighting get in the way of great ideas.
Remember at the end of the day we are not going to give details on what is in dev or what we plan to build. We will talk about what we like however and thus knowing details about Feature Cost is interesting to know but should not be something that inadvertently hampers the CDI or your ideas.
My original three were:
— Role Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.
— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.
— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.
And my top one is:
— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.
The other two were extremely close but I feel this one would have the best bang for buck for the community.
Finally note we are working on horizontal progression, with many of ideas (some of which may even be in this thread), so I can’t stress enough that this exercise is about further ideation focus refinement. Not a dev list.
Chris
(edited by Chris Whiteside.6102)
If I had to pick one of my three I posted before, it would be:
New Permanent Zones.
New zones would give us more JP’s, events, new creatures, and terrain to explore. Many people would like to see old GW1 areas opened up and I would agree with that 100%.
Sociopolitical Diversification
I would also have to agree with Sociopolitical Diversification as being my highest priority.
Guild Management, Guild Halls, Guild Alliance and Player Housing seems to give the biggest overall opportunity for expansive development.
If I had to pick one of my three I posted before, it would be:
New Permanent Zones.
New zones would give us more JP’s, events, new creatures, and terrain to explore. Many people would like to see old GW1 areas opened up and I would agree with that 100%.
Note it doesn’t have to be from the original list that the poster (you) generated. It could be from anyone’s.
Chris
If I had to pick one, it would probably be the wardrobe aspect. We already have something kinda similar now, the AP panel, however its very underutilized. It could easily (at least from my perspective) be changed to put the skins/minis (only) from the meta rewards (and preferably the rewards from before the meta achievement boxes, ie. Mad King’s Memories). As for gem store items, they could probably be put into the same thing (though probably a different tab), so that us with several alts don’t need to buy the same set several times. I’m all for buying the skins, but it needs to be changed so its like GW1 was, with the vendor after we bought them.
Really close second would have to be new zones (preferably expanding to the wastes, or north, maybe the desert. Unlike others I’d rather have Cantha be last, really don’t like that whole area).
Please give us a keyring…
Sociopolitical Diverification! Adding more ways for players to invest their characters in the world of Tyria is always welcome.
I am curious what sort of rough cost difference there is between implementing open world housing vs instanced housing.
I really like the idea of open world housing, but I am curious if everyone else feels it would add to their investment in Tyria?
yes we are still around!
Since you essentially broke the various suggestions into 3 broad categories, Chris, I’d probably have to say “Sociopolitical Diversification” would probably be my top interest as well as it would theoretically encompass things like guild halls, new quests, new zones, etc. Probably covers a lot of the things in my suggestions list.
Have to say though, that “Role Diversification” would be hot on the heels for second. As much as I like to look nice, I enjoy simply playing more, and more things to fiddle with would be awesome.
Without any doubt, my most important would be Role Diversification
And not just because it was one of the options Chris provided, but because it’s been discussed at length in this thread in various different ways.
The PvE meta in this game is quite abysmal as DPS pretty much rules everything — Tequatle was hailed as adding great new interesting mechanics, but what it ultimately comes down to is a 15 minute DPS check with other mechanics sprinkled on top.
I think expansion of the roles each of the classes can provide would really help alleviate this. Perhaps even skills that alter combat in new and interesting ways with new mechanics could be added.
This is probably one of the more expensive ideas, in terms of time and resources to develop, but it’s still my top choice:
Role Diversification: Earned build templates, new skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.
I modified the original to include ‘Earned Build Templates’ since this seems consistent with the other additions, and probably is the cheapest to implement. I also assume all these elements would have to be earned in some way so as to become a level of horizontal progression.
EDIT: I should add the emphasis would be on earning character flexibility as a way to continually improve the character after level 80. This would keep progression horizontal by allowing more finely tuned customization & flexibility to only be acquired through a considerable amount of time & effort, rather than just adding new skills.
Acquiring new build templates or more flexible skill swapping could be done through completing quests given by a profession trainer, a sort of advanced level of study the character can initiate once level 80 is reached.
This also might easily tie into either Sociopolitical Diversification, Hero Recognition or both. Any titles or faction achievements could have a direct correlation to an actual skill, ability, build template etc.
(edited by Wasbunny.6531)
Sociopolitical Diverification! Adding more ways for players to invest their characters in the world of Tyria is always welcome.
I am curious what sort of rough cost difference there is between implementing open world housing vs instanced housing.
I really like the idea of open world housing, but I am curious if everyone else feels it would add to their investment in Tyria?
Hi Shongaqu,
The cost difference between open and instanced housing is mainly on the technical side which in turn has a HUGE amount of design Considerations/Ramifications.
Hope this helps,
Chris
How specific are you looking for when we’re choosing our one?
Would ‘Expanding Ascended Gear’ count as one, for example, even though this could include:
- Giving different play modes the chance to Ascend Exotics (granted, this is Vertical) to not force people into crafting.
- Giving players the chance to unlock stats and upgrades on a single set of armour in a way unique to that play-mode.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
Note it doesn’t have to be from the original list that the poster (you) generated. It could be from anyone’s.
Chris
Thanks Chris. I knew that. It was hard for me to come up with my top three. The three I originally listed were the most important to me out of anything I read or came up with on my own. So, I had the sucky task of deciding which was most important to supply the “just one” you asked for.
BTW, it was very hard just as you said.
My top from the three I posted is:
Guild halls, and player housing.
It was hard for me to decide but I picked this because it could be an anchor to add in more content, like a new zone related to player houses or guild halls, new drops and crafting, and a new personal goal to create the most rockin’ place to hang with your buds.
It’s ugly to ask us that…
Chris Whiteside preference # 3 in my version.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/3407529
— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.
(edited by Louveepine.7630)
As two of your three choices, Chris, fits with my previous choices and the suggestions of some other posters, I would choose a mix of two of yours, as follows:
The two choices in question are:
— Role Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions and hybrid professions.
— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.
I would mix them into one choice is as follows:
— Hero Recognition and Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions as well as unique skins, follwers and rewards, which would all be unlocked through progression in a title or faction.
As you gain rank in your chosen faction, or in a title, you unlock ways to increase your hero’s power (through diversification) and focus your hero’s identity (through skins and extra weapon options).
Sorry if this is technically 2 choices, but I feel they could be so closely linked they can easily be treated as one.
I have to agree with the sociopolitical as well… it opens so many avenues to go down that fit snugly in a horizontally progressive system. Things like Halls and Housing open up whole new areas of crafting (yes, Tinkering again ) which also opens up other areas to craft, such as personal (town) clothing. Halls and Homes also, if you really wanted to get creative and go crazy, could potentially open up the ability to do things like add personal jumping puzzles (could be purchased designed, could even, if the technology allowed for it, be items placed by the homeowner to create their own design), the ability to grow the Halls and Homes through investment of time and resources, etc.
Don’t let yourself be content with the idea of “yay, a house, I’m going to buy a chair”. I’d much rather see an empty house, think it could use a chair, then grab a bundle of wood, some hand-crafted nails, the Shatterers left toe nail and my trusty hammer and see what I come up with.
Now… admittedly that could be potentially a ton of work, especially for the people designing all these toys and goodies. So, let’s take that a little further. You could open up contests to the community to create their own designs for assorted things from a list of materials. For example, you have the above list of slightly comical mats… wood, nails, the Shatterer’s toe nail, maybe add a few other optional items (cloth, leather for example)… and say "design one of these five items (table, chair, wall hanging, statuette, bed) and incorporate the top couple from each category into the game, adding a much more personal feel eventually to the Halls and Homes. You could even have open an items submission area where the creative among us could come up with and submit ideas for approval.
Just random thoughts, but they make me giddy, and being as how I’m currently sober there could be potential merit in this.
My number one would be “Zone Progression” / “Order Progression”
Something that gives players a purpose to explore the zones.
- A lot of people miss quests, my main guess why this is the case is: they miss stories. Dynamic Events are cyclical in nature, so those stories have no real end – climax if you want. Time to give your writers something more to do and let them design unique events.
- even the most simple idea could make people exited. Today I leveled in Kessex Hills when I saw a bear walking alongside a skritt. Awesome I thought… until I found out that I can’t interact with that npc at all; it’s just a guild mission boss. Why not spawn such rare characters (dozen of them, but rare spawns) in the open world, give them a loottable and a few interesting dialogue-options or even a small event associated.
Fill the existing maps with tons of things to do. I mean: tons and tons of things. And may these be just little things… the world has to feel more alive.
…and then combine this with progression. The more people find, the more they unlock. And the more they can unlock for others (in the sense of triggering new events).
summary: progression in specific zones via a huge variety of things to do (something for everyone – fighters, explorers, collectors, lore-lovers, treasure hunters,…………
People should have some goals for each of the zones. Not for the world in general (Legendary – mats from everywhere). Zelda reference: the Master Sword is in the Lost Woods, not everywhere in Hyrule.
(edited by Marcus Greythorne.6843)
Sociopolitical diversification for sure, specifically Order Missions/Faction. This could also tie in with new zones and additional content.
www.getunicorned.com / northernshiverpeaks.org
-snip-
I love reading your ideas, but they make my head hurt sometimes. XD
There is the possibility of offering too many options to players too. Devs have to balance between underwhelming and overwhelming, and having huge varieties of ‘what if’ options could potentially be extremely overwhelming.
How specific are you looking for when we’re choosing our one?
Would ‘Expanding Ascended Gear’ count as one, for example, even though this could include:
- Giving different play modes the chance to Ascend Exotics (granted, this is Vertical) to not force people into crafting.
- Giving players the chance to unlock stats and upgrades on a single set of armour in a way unique to that play-mode.
Absolutely as long as the macro level design also included information about the more micro level of design you included in your post.
Chris
— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing, Guild Halls, and Faction Alliances leading to new game play opportunities, rewards and content.
It’s also my #1 above all. I add to this category the Lore Codex or any lore source, improvement and tools.
Because roleplayers will have more sociopolitical interactions if they can learn more about the lore, interact with RP tools, etc. (Example of RP Tool : visitable guild halls)
It’s ugly to ask us that…
Chris Whiteside preference # 3 in my version.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/3407529— Hero Recognition: Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.
Sorry )-: but it will prove to be super useful though I think Louveepine.
Chris
-snip-
I love reading your ideas, but they make my head hurt sometimes. XD
There is the possibility of offering too many options to players too. Devs have to balance between underwhelming and overwhelming, and having huge varieties of ‘what if’ options could potentially be extremely overwhelming.
I’d rather be overwhelmed than underwhelmed. If overwhelmed, you can always catch your breath and get caught up.
Besides, I can’t help myself… when an idea like Halls and Homes comes up I can’t help but start branching out from there… OK, we have the structures, but how… are they built using materials? How does that affect material acquisition? Are they pre-formed purchases? What about furnishing them? Do we simply have items for purchase or do we expand it with crafting? If we go crafting, do we add things to existing professions where they don’t really fit or create a new profession? OK, if a new profession, does it make sense to have it be one you select to have active like the weapon and armor ones or does it make sense to have it as an aside to those and always active regardless? From there you’re back to materials… surely some basic things can be created from basic materials but more exotic things will need more exotic materials, where do we get those from? Then you dig deeper into the crafting and realize we need to flesh it out with enough potential items to be worthwhile, so we’ll need to create basic things like nails and glue for example. Threads and the like are already available. Of course this all adds up to someone having to create all the patterns and designs for players to discover and create, which requires man power. How can that be supplemented? Well, we have a creative community, perhaps players can come up with ideas, designs, lists of materials for the design etc. and submit those, and approved ones might be easier to add than ones that need to be created from scratch? So yeah… sorry about the headache… I’m just always stuck in big picture mode.
(edited by VOLKON.1290)
My number one would be “Zone Progression” / “Order Progression”
Something that gives players a purpose to explore the zones.
- A lot of people miss quests, my main guess why this is the case is: they miss stories. Dynamic Events are cyclical in nature, so those stories have no real end – climax if you want. Time to give your writers something more to do and let them design unique events.
- even the most simple idea could make people exited. Today I leveled in Kessex Hills when I saw a bear walking alongside a skritt. Awesome I thought… until I found out that I can’t interact with that npc at all; it’s just a guild mission boss. Why not spawn such rare characters (dozen of them, but rare spawns) in the open world, give them a loottable and a few interesting dialogue-options or even a small event associated.
Fill the existing maps with tons of things to do. I mean: tons and tons of things. And may these be just little things… the world has to feel more alive.
…and then combine this with progression. The more people find, the more they unlock. And the more they can unlock for others (in the sense of triggering new events).
summary: progression in specific zones via a huge variety of things to do (something for everyone – fighters, explorers, collectors, lore-lovers, treasure hunters,…………
People should have some goals for each of the zones. Not for the world in general (Legendary – mats from everywhere). Zelda reference: the Master Sword is in the Lost Woods, not everywhere in Hyrule.
This idea makes me excited, it could also tie into nearly every Horizontal Progression idea that has been put forward in this CDI.
It is just a good global ongoing goal to have, and one I think we have been doing but dependent on priorities could do a lot more of, especially from the point of view of using/evolving the Map Completion Meta Game system.
Chris
I feel that Sociopolitical Diversification has much more room to grow (and easier to grow), but more important to me is Role Diversification, as class mechanics and “feel” is what I gravitate towards. Sociopolitical feels more materialistic while Roles give me more a sense of becoming something rather than obtaining it. And, looking back, I think my arguments for and against certain aspects somewhat reflect that idea of becoming “something” (whatever that something happens to be).
Honestly though I also feel like there could be served a traditional MMO expansion which includes all three of Chris’s points (whether that happens all at once like with GW1’s, or periodically via Living Story, it doesn’t matter, but at the end of a “Cantha Arc” or “Elona Arc”, we’d have more progression for Roles, Sociopolitical, and Hero Recognition).
-snip-
I love reading your ideas, but they make my head hurt sometimes. XD
There is the possibility of offering too many options to players too. Devs have to balance between underwhelming and overwhelming, and having huge varieties of ‘what if’ options could potentially be extremely overwhelming.
I’d rather be overwhelmed than underwhelmed. If overwhelmed, you can always catch your breath and get caught up.
True, much rather ‘over’ than ‘under.’
-snip-
I love reading your ideas, but they make my head hurt sometimes. XD
There is the possibility of offering too many options to players too. Devs have to balance between underwhelming and overwhelming, and having huge varieties of ‘what if’ options could potentially be extremely overwhelming.
I’d rather be overwhelmed than underwhelmed. If overwhelmed, you can always catch your breath and get caught up.
Overwhelmed during the ‘Casting of the Net’ phase is awesome because we as a group will help to refine and reduce the ideas.
Chris
I would mix them into one choice is as follows:
— Hero Recognition and Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions as well as unique skins, follwers and rewards, which would all be unlocked through progression in a title or faction.As you gain rank in your chosen faction, or in a title, you unlock ways to increase your hero’s power (through diversification) and focus your hero’s identity (through skins and extra weapon options).
Sorry if this is technically 2 choices, but I feel they could be so closely linked they can easily be treated as one.
I’ve been stunned at Rin’s interpretation of the different features, and I must say, this is the approach I would like to see.
Hero Recognition based on Order choice, Player Housing, Guild Halls, etc…that could branch into further Diversification and Performance through new skills, events, challenges, etc…
So based on the above mix of Chris’ original categories, I’d say Hero Recognition/Sociopolitical development could set a solid framework for the different skills, events, and challenges that we’re all eager to see as well.
Role diversification.
I’m not that interested in player housing; it has no actual gameplay.
Role diversification adds to gameplay.
-snip-
I love reading your ideas, but they make my head hurt sometimes. XD
There is the possibility of offering too many options to players too. Devs have to balance between underwhelming and overwhelming, and having huge varieties of ‘what if’ options could potentially be extremely overwhelming.
I’d rather be overwhelmed than underwhelmed. If overwhelmed, you can always catch your breath and get caught up.
True, much rather ‘over’ than ‘under.’
Too much complexity drives non-forum players away. My wife, for example, has a lot going on in Real Life, and just doesn’t want to play a game that is more lifestyle than recreation.
Casuals are important, too.
My top three Horizontal changes:
1. Get Rid of soul-bound items. Everything should be account bound: dyes, legendaries, ascended gear, etc.
2. New, and difficult, areas. This should include the unlock of new skills.
3. Make all ascended gear available for purchase with Fractal Tokens, Laurels or Badges.
I would mix them into one choice is as follows:
— Hero Recognition and Diversification: New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, infusions as well as unique skins, follwers and rewards, which would all be unlocked through progression in a title or faction.As you gain rank in your chosen faction, or in a title, you unlock ways to increase your hero’s power (through diversification) and focus your hero’s identity (through skins and extra weapon options).
Sorry if this is technically 2 choices, but I feel they could be so closely linked they can easily be treated as one.
I’ve been stunned at Rin’s interpretation of the different features, and I must say, this is the approach I would like to see.
Hero Recognition based on Order choice, Player Housing, Guild Halls, etc…that could branch into further Diversification and Performance through new skills, events, challenges, etc…
So based on the above mix of Chris’ original categories, I’d say Hero Recognition/Sociopolitical development could set a solid framework for the different skills, events, and challenges that we’re all eager to see as well.
It’s an interesting perspective. Technically following his (her?) line of thinking, all 3 areas could be closely interlinked. One leading to another, back and forth, based on action and reaction:
A guild leader must lead her followers on an epic quest to liberate and then rebuild a guild hall; which in turn opens up a small instanced map where guild members could then not only build their guild hall, but individual housing. Which could then turn around an offer unique skins and rewards to show off.
Prob not the best or most detailed thought, but something that comes to mind, and presents options from all 3 categories in a single scenario. In some instances, it might be easier to develop things in tandem, where as in others its easier to build one set as the foundation, and then the additional options on top of it. Just depends on how they choose to develop.
Too much complexity drives non-forum players away. My wife, for example, has a lot going on in Real Life, and just doesn’t want to play a game that is more lifestyle than recreation.
Casuals are important, too.
Agreed. I’m a casual player myself, so I completely understand. If something seems so big and overwhelming, you get the immediate feeling that there is just ‘too much to do’ and therefore will never get it done, so why bother.
Hero Recognition based on Order choice, Player Housing, Guild Halls, etc…that could branch into further Diversification and Performance through new skills, events, challenges, etc…
So based on the above mix of Chris’ original categories, I’d say Hero Recognition/Sociopolitical development could set a solid framework for the different skills, events, and challenges that we’re all eager to see as well.
Are you thinking PvE skills like we saw in GW1? or something else? new weapons based on faction even?
example faction system with necro that has attained mid rank
- Great Sword for Vigil
- Scythe for Order of Whispers
- Chakra Guides for Priory
all three would be melee AOE type weapons but do different things GS is power based, Scythe is Siphon based, CG is condition based. depending on what weapon you want to be trained in you chose a faction to gain rep with. Ultimately you can unlock all of them. Add token buffs like the Kiel/Evon ones to WvW for your faction so everyone can work towards it regardless of game type. Make them unlocked in SPvP for free.
Just sort of going down a rabbit hole with this…
yes we are still around!
(edited by Shongaqu.5279)
Role diversification.
I’m not that interested in player housing; it has no actual gameplay.
Role diversification adds to gameplay.
I disagree. Halls and Homes can add quite a bit to game play by giving people specific goals to work for. People may be drawn to areas hey normally don’t frequent for needed materials both mundane and exotic. Events could be created that tie into this as well. So to say is has no actual game play… I think the actual game play it provides could become quite extensive.
My number one would also have to be Sociopolitical Diversification. As I’m sure my previous posts have made clear, I really like the idea of diving back into the various Factions around Tyria. I think using the existing factions and perhaps even creating new ones is a great vehicle for giving new/updated rewards (new armor, new ways to get existing armor/weapons, etc), for expanding on the existing lore, for making the world seem more “alive” and spread the population out from places other then LA.
Player/Guild housing
I love the idea of getting to choose where the physical entrance to guild housing would be. Give us a reason to go to places other then LA. Have an entrance in Black Citadel, Divinity’s Reach and Hoelbrek. And along with this, make the chat channel span all 4 major cities, instead of having just individual ones.
Ultimately, this is my number 1 choice because, from my perspective, it seems like the best vehicle to introduce new content, satisfy those who want more expansion with existing lore and diversifies player’s perceived and actual roles in the world of Tyria.
(edited by adubb.2453)
Role diversification.
I’m not that interested in player housing; it has no actual gameplay.
Role diversification adds to gameplay.
I disagree. Halls and Homes can add quite a bit to game play by giving people specific goals to work for. People may be drawn to areas hey normally don’t frequent for needed materials both mundane and exotic. Events could be created that tie into this as well. So to say is has no actual game play… I think the actual game play it provides could become quite extensive.
Agreed. It could also lead to new gameplay opportunities such as events, tasks, adventures and much more.
Chris
Hero Recognition based on Order choice, Player Housing, Guild Halls, etc…that could branch into further Diversification and Performance through new skills, events, challenges, etc…
So based on the above mix of Chris’ original categories, I’d say Hero Recognition/Sociopolitical development could set a solid framework for the different skills, events, and challenges that we’re all eager to see as well.
Are you thinking PvE skills like we saw in GW1? or something else? new weaopns based on faction even?
example faction system with necro that has attained mid rank
- Great Sword for Vigil
- Scythe for Order of Whispers
- Chakra Guides for Priory
all three would be melee AOE type weapons but do differnt things GS is power based, Scythe is Siphon based, CG is conditon based. depending on what weapon you want to be trained in you chose a faction to gain rep with. Ultimalty you can unlock all of them. Add token buffs like the Kiel/Evon ones to WvW for your faction so everyon can work towards it regardles of game type. Make them unlocked in SPvP for free.Just sort of going down a rabbit hole with this…
For GW 2, I don’t think PvE skills would be a bad thing. WvW has their specific skills through rank upgrades. PvE should get similar. It’s very important; however, that said new skills are not imbalanced against the existing skills, and even more important that new, difficult, challenging content is introduced that could be alleviated partially by the use of new PvE skills.
The bold is going to be the difficult part. Players have blown expectations out of the water with stacking, combos, killing Lupicus in seconds, etc…If Arenanet truly wants to create challenge, they will essentially have to kill the existing builds or curb their power down to make any new content feel challenging enough.
I wouldn’t do this through nerfs to any existing skills, but instead, I would give all new bosses in metas or dungeons an “armored” buff (non-strippable) that reduced critical damage by a flat percent. This would greatly reduce the current strength of Berserkers, but still be possible to keep that strength high if players could stack Vulnerability. (the existing % debuff).