Guild Wars 2

Mungrul.9358:

Sirendor.1394:

Mungrul.9358:

I just want to say that while I agree changeable stats on gear should be implemented (a la Legendaries), it should NOT be limited to Ascended gear. I think we’re in danger of letting it become another carrot when it should be a feature throughout the gear system.

Different materials should yield different cosmetic appearances.

What does this last addition mean? Different stat combinations > different cosmetic looks?

The idea is that the material you craft the gear with doesn’t affect stats at all; rather it determines what the gear looks like. It means more work for the art team, yes, but when it comes down to it, one of the biggest complaints about crafted gear is the restricted set of appearances.

I think you may not fully appreciate the implications of “more work for the art team.” There’s a reason many armor and weapon skins are put in the gem store. And, as an example, there’s a reason they didn’t make unique appearances for every ascended stat as the player-run rumor mill thought (I’m still laughing at those people).

Actually I would love it if Anet did a blog post to shine some light on the every-day life of an Anet 3d artist. They don’t have a magical goose that lays golden eggs containing art assets. Anet employs some of the best artists in the industry, and I fear most people on this forum, in this game, and perhaps most gamers in general have zero understanding of what really goes in to the art assets. Everything from roughing out the lowres mesh to sculpting the highres mesh. Doing normal map transfers. UV mapping. Texturing. Rigging. Skinning and weighting. Animation. Hundreds of man hours went in to those ascended armor sets that everyone hates so much.

Asking them to multiply that by the number of possible stat combinations is probably not economically feasible for Anet, especially when they aren’t charging gems for those skins. But what you are asking now is for unique skins for all the different material recipes in the game too. I’d love to see it happen, but it’s unrealistic and highly impractical.

What if, for a “stat change” token you simply tie them to things like zone completions or guild challenges. Guild Challenges haven’t been added to since the came out really. And I doubt many are jumping for joy over their zone completion rewards.

VOLKON.1290:

This would, however, really have a negative effect on the “play your way” concept. For example, the dedicated WvW players tend to use PVT gear. However this model required Fractals level 50 to unlock toughness… and many WvW players rarely if ever step foot in Fractals. Forcing unrelated content to get stats desirable for completely unrelated areas will go over like the proverbial lead balloon.

I think you misunderstood something. I listed a number of options equal to the number of ascended stat combinations. For example, achieving any of the 3 options in the “Power” section would let players pick between unlocking Berserker, Soldier, or Valkyrie stats. Also, each weapon/armor would always be able to switch back to its original stat combo, even if it is not one that the player has unlocked.

PVT armor would be under the Power section, where one of the options is to achieve WvW rank 100 (which should be easy for any primarily WvW player, especially after ranks become account-bound). Choosing one of the Toughness options would by no means force players to get to rank 50 fractal rewards. Most WvW players would likely attain a Toughness combination via the 5000 AP option.

Also note that this is only an example. In this example, getting a main Vitality stat combo would be a pain for WvW players, so it’s obviously not perfect.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

Chris

Alternate methods for acquiring Ascended and Legendary (pre-cursors as well) weapons etc. is something I want. I don’t want a grind or ridiculously hard content (re-vamped teq is not fun) to achieve it but I think open-world group DEs would be a great way to approach it. It will encourage the community to play together more especially those of us with multiple level 80 characters. The crafting process for Legendary weapons require a lot of mats so the drop rate for T6 mats needs a serious increase.

munkiman.3068:

On horizontal progress and it’s flaws/fixes…

1) There needs to be a locker that holds all the skins you’ve discovered, similar to the PvP locker system. As this already exists in the game, so it might be an easier transition.

2) The insignia system needs a revamp, basically being able to store insignias in the locker as well, then applying them at the time of a skin removal. Or inversely taking them off when you store a skin and adding back to the pool of stored ones. This will make everyones life easier, period. You guys won’t have to code all the different looks to the stats they carry and we won’t have to memorize what stats is what name in the crafting tab.

3) As far as gear level, make each skin you grab match your level. If i’m a 67 light armor class when i trade around my armor in the locker it’ll be level appropriate (50-60). Ditch all the in-between stuff. 40-50 same stats, 50-60 same stats, 70-80 same stats… They are so minor already, no reason to complicate it more. I’m not exactly sure the breakdown, but it would tie into the already craft-able insignias.

4)Insignias are only craft-able, they don’t drop. It makes crafting a bit more valuable, IMO.

5) Completely remove transmutation stones, they are already easy to acquire and it’s an extra step in the process that wouldn’t be needed anymore.

6) Rarity can stay, but realistically it would drop as a blank slate following the skin, not the stats. No more below 60 rares! A rare skin is rare because it’s harder to find, not because the stat says so.

The system needs to be simplified and also a hunt and gather ordeal, giving people something to hoard. If i want to make a level 2 piece of gear ascended, just apply the insignia. Same goes for all the other stat related items, it’ll make this game more alt friendly too!

Just to add more clarity here, rares still salvage the same, they just don’t have stats when they drop, same for exotics, same for ascended. Crafting gear is a blanket color, (ie. white) and doesn’t salvage to ectos, only the insignias do. Greens and blues still drop the same, only stateless. Once and insignia is applied to a piece of gear, it becomes unsalvageable, which wouldn’t be an issue since the only way you could apply the stuff is through the locker.

Also, you’d need to have more than one skin in order to put it on another toon. Just like in regular life and less like the current PvP locker. So, it’s be up to the player if they wanted to keep the skin or salvage/sell it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

[…]

[…]

Try to tie these ideas into the core foundation of GW2’s systems and mechanics please.

Chris

What might be done to make vertical progression in GW2 more enjoyable?
[…]

• Make gear upgradeable rather than disposable

[…]

Make gear upgradeable is a very nice Idea – it`s already implemented in some way through the mystic forge, but i think a better way of upgrading gear would be to have a system implemented that allows you to take a piece of gear and upgrade it to the next higher tier, so for example you have a SOLDIERS shoulder piece, and you can upgrade it to an exotic version (also SOLDIERS shoulder piece) -> this could be added to help people upgrade exotics to ascended (also SOLDIERS shoulder piece).
That would remove forcing us to use the RNG-elements in the game which most players don`t like.
I have something in mind like: you craft yourself to 500 as e.g. tailor and then you get the option to upgrade existing exotics to acsended or a mystic forge recepie (not RNG- based!).
This could also be put into wvw and you can upgrade your gear there for badges of honor, gold, karma – unlocked with wvw level 100 or so. (adjust those numbers so it needs an equal amount of effort in every part of the game – dungeons – wvw – guild commendations – fractals) and so on, where ascended gear is hard to get right now or RNG-based (fractals, wvw).
I think the idea of ascended gear as a long term goal between exotic and legendary is really good, but right now it only focuses on people who play at least pve – not the wvw and the pvp guys (who mostly play wvw too) and its RNG only for all the people who dont craft, because they play the game instead of farming frostgorge for mats and money .

Spawne.3128:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

Chris

I would say that is true pretty much about all items. However I see this strategy being problematic unless you increase the overall amount of items in the game. Supply vs demand basically. Scale it so that ascended weapons/armor only drop from the hardest of pve related events in the game, and exotics drop from lower difficulty events, and just leave the drop rate of precursors the same so that you dont diminish the rarity of legendary’s. PvE in this game has so much potential however has been largely undeveloped.

I like this idea of higher drop rates for harder content but it still neglects wvw so I would like to add. Higher drop rates in wvw from Player kills modified by the players rank. Higher rank = better chance to get something good from them. In theory higher rank players should have more experience and thus be more difficult to fight.

Is it possible for us to get an idea from you, Chris, of the concepts you think stand out and may have an impact on the future of progression? Right now it’s a lot of you repeating our ideas optimistically, but not a lot of context (with all due respect).

Just make accended items available through the same methods and currencies that exotics are, i.e. karma, dungeons, fractals, WvW, crafting, etc, but at a higher cost. That way people can still play what and how they want.

Also Chris, you said that you would be thinking on the whole Fractal reset thing (to Romo quite a few pages ago). Can those of us who are interested in that particular response expect to see something about it in this thread or will it be brought up in a separate one?

Thanks!

With regards to progression. I like the ideas of a PVE locker for all skins acquired. I also think there should be more in game gear to work towards, keeping the horizontel progression scheme instead of vertical. I came to this game for the horizontel, not the vertical.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Aeonblade.8709:

Lheimroo.2947:

Moshari.8570:

Give the ascended gear either “limited” stat swapping or full stat swapping like legendaries…or a way (a quest for instance) that would allow you to Add a stat for stat swapping.

If there were epic quests in place where you could unlock stat combinations for your gear that’d be.. awesome. That would be unbelievably awesome.

No more grind; make it about challenges.

I agree, would love to hear from Chris on this idea specifically, epic quest chains to unlock swappable item stats and new item stat combos.

This is a cool idea. Lots of logic problems to think about in regard to it. Need more time to think (-:

Chris

My idea for an “epic quest chain” to unlock ascended gear:

Make a member of the Vigil/Order of Whispers/Durmand Priory/Seraph/Different races in each of the major cities that each has a problem that needs to be handled. That “problem” will ultimately lead to the fighting of a world boss.

But before you get to that stage you first have a “something mysterious is going on” quest where you are given a unique item and bring it to some NPC somewhere that triggers an event to guard a dude/ save a captured dude/ retrieve the dude’s thing / whatever. That dude you saved/thing you brought back then tells you “ohmigosh, this super meanie head is doing something evil/is being forced to doing something evil/killed my wife”.

Then you have a “track the bad guy” quest(s) where you are tracking the dude down and figuring out what he’s planning/already has in the works.

Then you have the “confront the bad guy” quest resulting in a champ fight that should absolutely be in the world proper, not in an instance (because everyone loves ganging up on a bad guy!) Then, right as he’s about to die he vows he vengence/slips away/casts the spell/summons the creature that ultimately is what he/she was actually planning which was the world boss. Then you get the question to go kill JoJo/Shatterer/whatever and go kill it.

That doesn’t sound all that long, but you could make it so that simply unlocks a new vendor you didn’t have access to before that accepts some new world boss currency/ectos/laurels/whatever to buy ascended armor.

**I would love it even more if the armor you could buy from this dude was actually ascended armor themed after each world boss.

How about this: the game looks at who has gotten a precursor drop, or multiple, and reduces that persons chances of getting ascended gear drops

Im kidding! Thought I’d lighten the mood. Carry on.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Samhayn.2385:

Spawne.3128:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

Chris

I would say that is true pretty much about all items. However I see this strategy being problematic unless you increase the overall amount of items in the game. Supply vs demand basically. Scale it so that ascended weapons/armor only drop from the hardest of pve related events in the game, and exotics drop from lower difficulty events, and just leave the drop rate of precursors the same so that you dont diminish the rarity of legendary’s. PvE in this game has so much potential however has been largely undeveloped.

I like this idea of higher drop rates for harder content but it still neglects wvw so I would like to add. Higher drop rates in wvw from Player kills modified by the players rank. Higher rank = better chance to get something good from them. In theory higher rank players should have more experience and thus be more difficult to fight.

Interesting idea.

Chris

It is, but then again it punishes certain playstyles. I’ve been in WvW since it came out and I don’t have nearly the rank of many other even newer players. A large part of the reason is the time I tend to spend scouting and baby-sitting towers while the zerg runs amok getting the loot and booty. Time does not equate to experience in WvW. But the WvW rewards balances and imbalances is a topic for another thread I guess.

If drop rates for ascended weapon/armor sets are ever increased, please note that players should never have to run content for weeks on end just to get a lucky drop.

I like the fotm method of gaining a token that can be slowly built up and traded in for a reward if you didn’t get a ring drop.

I don’t like the “higher chance” for an ascended weapon chest from tequatl the sunless because I’ve run it more than 20 times so far and have nothing except for exotic accessories and runes that I’ll never use. The first 4 or 5 times was for the fun of it. After that, I kept running it hoping I might get something better. I was wrong.

Without adding more currency types, why aren’t there more rewards for karma such as 6-7 figure prices for ascended items such as backpieces and armor pieces? The temple armor sets were a step in the right direction, the “cultural” weapons worked nice too. Shouldn’t we have more items to spend our karma on?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hope this helps?

Chris

In the sense that I’m now realizing a short post you made a couple pages back is about 140 times more important than I had thought at first glance, yes, it helps.

…I have been building a proposal on behalf of everyone…

Has just been re-classified as the discussion equivalent of a nuclear bomb.

Quickly! To the Dev-tracker!

((runs off ninja-style))

Edit: Found it!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion.

Comprehension check: When you say this, you mean you’re formulating a proposal to take into the offices and run past the developer-team, not just to direct the flow of this thread talking to players?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

’Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

The ability to change gear stats.

The ability to potentially use tokens from encounters (allowing users to work toward acquisition of Ascended Gear) that would otherwise only offer RNG chances on Ascended Gear, allowing users to work toward the items (courtesy of Nike and others)’

Those are all good ideas to improve ascended gear’s accessibility and build diversity, but I feel that they aren’t enough to make alt-gearing more appealing.

They certainly help at that indirectly, but unless they would suddenly be too easy to get, which would make no sense considering that ascended gear was designed exactly to prevent that from ever happening, then alt-gearing will remain insane. Currently, the idea of crafting ascended gear for each weapon and armor type, and then for each stat type (which would certainly be fixed if their stats could be changed), and then multiply that for each alt is a monstrous task. It scales exponentionally. Making it slightly easier to get an extra piece of gear is fine for a single character, but will still scale too hard for alts.

That’s why I’ve been defending the idea of duplicates of the same item type (with a stat combination of choice) instead of the current legendary’s stat-changing functionality. There is an advantage and disadvantage to this approach:

• It would be much easier to gear alts. Each type unlocked could be duplicated to every character and every stat combo.
• It would occupy a lot of inventory space.

But that disadvantage… is actually a positive thing for the game! Why? Because it would preserve the current functionality of the legendary’s stat-changing mechanic. Want to save inventory space? Get a legendary, and you won’t need duplicates for different stat combos!

I’ve talked about this in a previous post in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression/page/19#post3376875

However, Mr. Chris, if you feel that this idea is problematic and not viable to acchieve, then please, say so. I’ve been pushing this idea very hard in this thread, so I would like to know if I should keep doing it or not.

Another thing I would like to add is to make soul-bound, (and previously-used) gear to be account-bound.

I brought ascended trinkets with +toughness, and then I found out that I should have gotten berserker trinkets instead. So I replaced them all. So, what should I do with my old trinkets? I would wish to be able to equip them on my alts. But they’re soul-bound now.

If that is out of possibility, then at least let us do something with unneeded/ previously-used ascended gear. So they’re not gathering dust in my bank.

Hi Nike,

There is no morass and no concept of ‘us’ trying to dig ourselves out of it.We are having a discussion about accessibility around ascended gear in relation to how the community wants to acquire it. I still stand by its inclusion and want to ensure that it is equidistantly positioned between Exotic and Legendary. I also want to ensure it is accessible to all players specifically in regard to how they play within the world.

These are all areas we have thought about at Anet. Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with having an open discussion with everyone about how the play, and their feelings toward the opinions of other members of the community and the Developers.

Like i keep saying i am very much looking forward to concentrating on Horizontal Progression. In the meantime however I want to make sure that we give Ascended the attention it is due.

Chris

Do you have time to explain the bolded part in a bit more detail? I’m looking at The Bifrost on the TP and it has exactly the same weapon strength as my Ascended Staff. I can’t double check the actual stats from the TP, but the wiki shows the same stats as my Ascended staff too. Is the Ascended Tier supposed to be under the Legendary Tier or equal to the Legendary Tier?

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Aeonblade.8709:

Lheimroo.2947:

Moshari.8570:

Give the ascended gear either “limited” stat swapping or full stat swapping like legendaries…or a way (a quest for instance) that would allow you to Add a stat for stat swapping.

If there were epic quests in place where you could unlock stat combinations for your gear that’d be.. awesome. That would be unbelievably awesome.

No more grind; make it about challenges.

I agree, would love to hear from Chris on this idea specifically, epic quest chains to unlock swappable item stats and new item stat combos.

This is a cool idea. Lots of logic problems to think about in regard to it. Need more time to think (-:

Chris

I like this idea. This would work best if each combo was account-bound. Each eligible item (possibly an upgraded ascended, similar to infused) would be able to switch to its original stat combo or any of the unlocked combos.

You could group stats combinations by primary attribute and allow players to unlock one in a specific group upon completing certain achievements. This way players could unlock the combo they want without having to play outside their norm, but to unlock all of them players would have to play all PvE/WvW aspects of the game. For example:

Power:

• Reach WvW rank 100
• Achieve “Dungeon Master”
• Complete 4 “Slayer” achievements

Precision:

• Complete 40 unique jumping puzzles
• Complete 3 “Weapon Master” achievements

Condition Damage:

• Achieve “The Sunbringer”
• Kill 2500 enemy players in WvW
• Complete one tier of the “Regular” achievement for four unique activities

Toughness:

• Reach fractal reward level 50
• Reach 5000 total achievement points
• Achieve “Been There, Done That”

Vitality:

• Complete “Victory or Death”
• Achieve “Master Crafter”

Healing Power:

• Earn 1000 achievement points from living story achievements
• Defend 500 objectives in WvW
• Complete the “Dive Master” achievement

Celestial:

• Unlock one stat combo from each of the other six groups.

I feel like this is completely the wrong direction. All the stats should be unlockable via something in the game mode you play in, not forcing you to do supposedly optional stuff like crafting.

I’m glad you like the idea, but what you said would actually turn me AWAY from that kind of system.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Stars.2179:

You could convert gold to gems to buy the item. It’s just in a different currency

They could just make it so that merchant sell transmutation stones for varied exchange price between 3g20s to 5g per stone and it would make it effectively the same. Would you still complain if they do that?

Yes I would complain about that. It shouldn’t cost that much just to transmute some statistics from one item to the next. It is a basic part of gearing up your character, it shouldn’t cost a fortune to do.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You can pretty much say that transmutation is an essential component of the game play…. so why is it locked behind the gem store? That really needs to change.

[…] But for something as essential as transmutation… I have to pay real money for that?

So, which one is it? You agree that you don’t HAVE TO pay real money for that then? Your concern is that it costs 2g-5g per stone then. And that might or might not be a valid one depending on the opinion. Each one to their own.

Personally I don’t think transmutation is a “basic” gearing up process. It is rather a luxurious one, so charging 2-5g is fine. But that’s just my opinion.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

Chris

Yes this would be great :-) And the stat change too :-)

munkiman.3068:

munkiman.3068:

On horizontal progress and it’s flaws/fixes…

1) There needs to be a locker that holds all the skins you’ve discovered, similar to the PvP locker system. As this already exists in the game, so it might be an easier transition.

2) The insignia system needs a revamp, basically being able to store insignias in the locker as well, then applying them at the time of a skin removal. Or inversely taking them off when you store a skin and adding back to the pool of stored ones. This will make everyones life easier, period. You guys won’t have to code all the different looks to the stats they carry and we won’t have to memorize what stats is what name in the crafting tab.

3) As far as gear level, make each skin you grab match your level. If i’m a 67 light armor class when i trade around my armor in the locker it’ll be level appropriate (50-60). Ditch all the in-between stuff. 40-50 same stats, 50-60 same stats, 70-80 same stats… They are so minor already, no reason to complicate it more. I’m not exactly sure the breakdown, but it would tie into the already craft-able insignias.

4)Insignias are only craft-able, they don’t drop. It makes crafting a bit more valuable, IMO.

5) Completely remove transmutation stones, they are already easy to acquire and it’s an extra step in the process that wouldn’t be needed anymore.

6) Rarity can stay, but realistically it would drop as a blank slate following the skin, not the stats. No more below 60 rares! A rare skin is rare because it’s harder to find, not because the stat says so.

The system needs to be simplified and also a hunt and gather ordeal, giving people something to hoard. If i want to make a level 2 piece of gear ascended, just apply the insignia. Same goes for all the other stat related items, it’ll make this game more alt friendly too!

Just to add more clarity here, rares still salvage the same, they just don’t have stats when they drop, same for exotics, same for ascended. Crafting gear is a blanket color, (ie. white) and doesn’t salvage to ectos, only the insignias do. Greens and blues still drop the same, only stateless. Once and insignia is applied to a piece of gear, it becomes unsalvageable, which wouldn’t be an issue since the only way you could apply the stuff is through the locker.

Also, you’d need to have more than one skin in order to put it on another toon. Just like in regular life and less like the current PvP locker. So, it’s be up to the player if they wanted to keep the skin or salvage/sell it.

Sorry for replying to my own thread, lol. But ideas are flowing. So, actually change the functionality of transmutation stones to Locker access and fine locker access stones. This way they become more of a convenience item, change your stats/look anywhere in the world (for a cost, out of combat, etc.) with whatever is in your locker. Could even have a cool, drop out of the sky locker animation

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Gnat.9405:

Is it possible for us to get an idea from you, Chris, of the concepts you think stand out and may have an impact on the future of progression? Right now it’s a lot of you repeating our ideas optimistically, but not a lot of context (with all due respect).

I have been building a proposal on behalf of everyone. I am still seeing how the discussion plays out on other ideas. I will continue to update the proposal. This is how I am approaching the ideation discussion. I think I have called out the idea that are interesting however I don’t understadn what you mean by ‘Not a lot of context’.

If you are looking for definitive promises on work actions then I am afraid that is something I won’t be doing. If you are looking for thoughts on direction moving forward then you can find this all over the thread and there will be a summary in this regard upon conclusion of the Vertical discussion before centering of the Horizintal discussion.

Hope this helps?

Chris

Thanks, Chris.

I’m certainly not looking for promises or confirmations. I guess it’s just difficult to absorb a lot of this information as I try to read it all at once and pick out progressive posts from the ones that are taking this CDI way off track (can’t imagine how you’re doing it!).

I will wait for the summaries of today, as it’s been a great day in this thread so far. Thanks again for the response. I didn’t mean

I’m not sure if you’ve seen my previous post about rolling up the gear types into a few different sets, and having each ascended armor have 3 selectable stat archetypes.
It seems like that idea and some others that have suggested similar methods caught some positive attention for a few pages.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Gnat.9405:

Is it possible for us to get an idea from you, Chris, of the concepts you think stand out and may have an impact on the future of progression? Right now it’s a lot of you repeating our ideas optimistically, but not a lot of context (with all due respect).

I have been building a proposal on behalf of everyone. I am still seeing how the discussion plays out on other ideas. I will continue to update the proposal. This is how I am approaching the ideation discussion. I think I have called out the idea that are interesting however I don’t understadn what you mean by ‘Not a lot of context’.

If you are looking for definitive promises on work actions then I am afraid that is something I won’t be doing. If you are looking for thoughts on direction moving forward then you can find this all over the thread and there will be a summary in this regard upon conclusion of the Vertical discussion before centering of the Horizintal discussion.

Hope this helps?

Chris

If you’ve called out the ideas you find interesting/viable, I guess there’s no reason for my continued participation.
Please forgive my needlessly negative comment here. I have an issue with not feeling heard, but it’s my own issue, and not Chris’s responsibility. (Fun fact: Normally a possessive of a word ending with s would just be s’, but since Chris is a proper noun, it is grammatically correct to use “Chris’s”- I learned this from playing GW2. The more you know!)

There was some discussion about RNG and about people enjoying it and not. I think it’s important to distinguish between two different situations where RNG takes place:

a) You open a chest, and there’s a certain chance to get the uber-drop which is especially available in this chest. In GW1, e.g., there was the Voltaic Spear in the chest at the end of Slaver’s Exile. A dungeon/quest/whatever may be even farmed to especially loot this chest in hope to get this one drop out of it.

b) There is always the chance that you get the uber-drop, by every kill, by every chest. It can drop, but chances are very low, but it can happen all the time. Like precursors in GW2.

I remember how awesome it was to loot a chest in GW1 – always this little adrenaline-spike in front of the big chest, in hope to get the uber-loot this time, even though it didn’t work the last 50 times (and if it doesn’t, there were at least quite often some goldies or some nice mats). And the curiosity what the other teammates may get. In GW2, it’s totally boring. Precursors can basically drop everywhere, and chest loot is almost all the time just garbage.

Hi Chris,

Here’s some more brainstorming about my earlier post on how ascended gear bundles together horizontal and vertical progression, and why that’s frustrating (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression/page/25#post3382067):

• To start with, the already-proposed and seemingly popular idea of unlocking new stat combinations (on a legendary-style drop down menu) with various tasks. That sounds awesome, but maybe would take too long to implement.
• Mystic forge recipes for ascended gear, to change the stats. Ascended ring + 1 pristine fractal relic + 1 fine crafting material = ring with different stats. Of course, you’d need alternate recipes for WvW-only players.
• Cheap infusions of stat-swapping. An infusion with -94 power, +94 condition damage that fits in any power-primary ascended weapon. Should be pretty cheap to make, or perhaps a slightly more expensive version with stat-switching and agony resist.
• Ascended cooking! These foods do something similar to the stat-swapping infusions, letting you temporarily bend your ascended stats to some other purpose.

There is some perverse little of part of me that thinks IF Ascended Items can have their stats swapped, it should somehow cost Transmutation Stones – the yellow ones that affect items level 1-79, not the blue ones chiefly found in the Gem Store.

Aside from me having upwards of 200 of them lying around, the idea that getting map completion in a town would allow you to pay for a swap is just so terribly, wonderfully wrong .

That or Bloodstone Dust.

((no, this does not mean I think it should be allowed… this is just me goofing off out loud))

munkiman.3068:

Sorry for replying to my own thread, lol. But ideas are flowing. So, actually change the functionality of transmutation stones to Locker access and fine locker access stones. This way they become more of a convenience item, change your stats/look anywhere in the world (for a cost, out of combat, etc.) with whatever is in your locker. Could even have a cool, drop out of the sky locker animation

I prefer keeping t-stones in and using them to replace the existing inscriptions in the armor. You want to change stats, craft the inscription you want (already in the game) and use a t-stone (already in the game) to overwrite the current one.

I know there was mention that this would require (hypothetically) people to carry around a lot of inscriptions… however I don’t think, at the ascended level, that we should be flipping stats every boss or encounter. Legendary you can already do that, so leave ascended a little step below legendary. You flip stats when you need to for something like a new build, not constantly (unless you actually want to put the time, effort and resources into being able to do so). If I want to carry a pocket full of inscriptions and stones about then sure, I could, but is that even realistic? How often would you be flipping stats without respeccing as well?

Regardless… well, there you go. It feels like a more simplistic solution as opposed to coming up with a bunch of new things and it gets the job done quite well.

Putting the fractals aside, I just wanted to thank you, Chris for taking your time in discussing ideas and views in these topics. Given some ideas are quite interesting, some very detailed, optimistic and creative, while some are quite scary and self-motivated. Regardless the focus and issue you seem to give people hope that they’re being heard. That their passion for the game is being seen by people that made what we, the players, practically love.
It is understood that most of the ideas will never see the daylight, but one way of another you give people the feeling of importance that they are being heard. Even if those things are not implemented in one way maybe they’ll be implemented in another aspect giving the collective mind some meaning in this whole thing.
I have to admit that when this topic began I had very little faith left in me as to where this game is headed, but as I read though most of the replies, the positiveness and the passion behind some of the ideas and suggestions are very uplifting. And having you and the team to acknowledge these ideas even by something small as “That’s an interesting idea” gives me and I’m sure many of us some hope for the future of this game (:

Sirendor.1394:

Maybe we should also introduce the balance of skill-reward into this discussion, since it is something which seems incredibly off balance in the case of ascended armour.

My biggest concern is that the vertical progression we have seen now requires no skill, but a lot of time:
- Gold is the main thing you need (200g per craft + 60g per piece)
- Gold is gained mostly through rather easy activities: dungeons, champion farms, world bosses
- Gold is very very low in challenging content: PvP is debatably one of the least rewarding areas of the game, Jumping Puzzles aswell.

Why do the most easy things in the game give more gold than the kittenes?

I think they want to keep the game highly accessible to players of all skill levels while offering smaller, more specific challenge content for those hardcore players. If you were here around launch you would have heard the deafening cries of people begging them to nerf dungeons (which was a shame in my opinion).

I think you first need to define what “requires skill” means both to yourself and others. Then you need to think about whether that fits anywhere within the overall game design. Skill-gating will do either of two things:

• Create a division where a small % of the players have access, and thus leave out a large % of players, which is contrary to Anet’s belief that everything should be accessible (playable) to everyone. See games like this for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1J2afLOEIo&feature=player_detailpage#t=53

• Create a situation where the skill-based content is eventually “solved” and walkthroughs are posted which defeat the whole purpose of “skill-gating” and allow everyone to easily reap the rewards by following the solved methods of the gameplay. See current Tequatl content on Blackgate for example.

I would like to see less time-gated content, but the sad fact is that type of thing is a nice blanket effect for everyone that alienates no one except impatient people.

In regards to character progression, I would like to see Anet use something more interesting than “25 skill points for a new healing skill” in the game. I would like to be able to unlock a new skill by getting a difficult achievement or beating a specific boss. Perhaps by getting an achievement like Dungeon Master, I unlock a new elite skill. Or they could introduce permanent story meta achievement content which rewards traits for the meta.

This is a real slippery slope discussion because everyone has a different definition for grind.

It seems like some of the problems that people have with Ascended items, could be mitigated by making some of the crafting materials available to purchase from vendors with game currency. By currency, I mean Dungeon Tokens, Fractal Relics, Badges of Honor and Karma.

Doing this would cover a Vendor from each area of the game and also prevent just outright using gold to buy your way to the top.

*I didn’t include sPvP because I know the rewards for that are about to change.

Ok, I really cant catch up now to what has been said on this CDI, but here is my opinion on some matters:

I feel that the time for character advancement is soon pass. Yeah, we get more armor and story, but atm with how achievements are done with getting bonuses account wide, or special armor, it seems that expanding on that would be a more logical way to go. Account bonuses to expand to all the characters, unlocking knew armor by doing knew achieves, etc.

It just seems that system is already in place, so why not expand on it more?

Now of course, another idea I saw was adding in a system like in WvW (which gasp the points are account bound :p), to specialize characters more. Perhaps increase harvesting chance to get more items, increase dmg to undead, reduce fall dmg, etc.

I just feel atm, that I am bettering my account as a whole now, and not characters individually is all.

Guhracie.3419:

If you’ve called out the ideas you find interesting/viable, I guess there’s no reason for my continued participation.

Well, I for one just opened your profile and read back through every post you’ve made to this thread sifted out of the flux… and I look forward to hearing more of your ideas. Moreso if they’ve continued to evolve. Particularly in the possibilities tied to characters’ personality choices. You’ve got pros, try to find the cons yourself and clean it up for a fresh presentation when the mode shifts to horizontal discussion.

In some respects you’re a bit ahead of your time – a lot of your posts are about horizontal systems and the focus on those types of posts has been set aside for a bit later.

VOLKON.1290:

munkiman.3068:

Sorry for replying to my own thread, lol. But ideas are flowing. So, actually change the functionality of transmutation stones to Locker access and fine locker access stones. This way they become more of a convenience item, change your stats/look anywhere in the world (for a cost, out of combat, etc.) with whatever is in your locker. Could even have a cool, drop out of the sky locker animation

I prefer keeping t-stones in and using them to replace the existing inscriptions in the armor. You want to change stats, craft the inscription you want (already in the game) and use a t-stone (already in the game) to overwrite the current one.

I know there was mention that this would require (hypothetically) people to carry around a lot of inscriptions… however I don’t think, at the ascended level, that we should be flipping stats every boss or encounter. Legendary you can already do that, so leave ascended a little step below legendary. You flip stats when you need to for something like a new build, not constantly (unless you actually want to put the time, effort and resources into being able to do so). If I want to carry a pocket full of inscriptions and stones about then sure, I could, but is that even realistic? How often would you be flipping stats without respeccing as well?

Regardless… well, there you go. It feels like a more simplistic solution as opposed to coming up with a bunch of new things and it gets the job done quite well.

The difference here is that the stones are consumed, legendary stuff has no cost involved in changing stats. As far as looks go, well you can do that anywhere in the world now with stones, which also includes stats, if you happen to find a stat you want. Personally, stones are pretty worthless, not because i have a ton of them but because when i find a skin to actually use it on, it consumes the skin I already have. Yes i know, the new stone that doesn’t do that, but i’m not buying it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

’Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

The ability to change gear stats.

The ability to potentially use tokens from encounters (allowing users to work toward acquisition of Ascended Gear) that would otherwise only offer RNG chances on Ascended Gear, allowing users to work toward the items (courtesy of Nike and others)’

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion.

Chris

I think that of the three, one is the least appealing.

If you take a step back and look at how things were in the begining, Legendaries were simply Exotics with a fancy skin. Even so, people still wanted them.

If Ascended is to bridge the gap between Exotic and Legendary, then higher stats were never needed. Something like stat switching that makes the item more useful without making it more powerful is ideal. Also, the effort to make it should be a challenge, but not a great challenge.

I still say that the best thing to do is to drop Ascended stats back down to Exotic level, and give them stat switching. I love the idea of having to do things to earn the other stat sets to switch to, by the way. Give Legendary items the same stats, with all of the switches unlocked from the start.

Then you adjust the ways that people can get Ascended items. Adding in more ways to do it, including a sure-fire but slow way, means that you can keep the RNG drops as rare as they are now. The crafting requirements need to be toned down, though. Right now, it’s more grind than challenge.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Is it fair to say that regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method?

Chris

A first step could be improve the world bosses like it was done with Tequatl. Each boss should have special mechanics like Mai Trin, for example.

Examples of improvements with mechanics alredy known:

-Fire Elemental + Weapons testing facility mechanic+ Enviromental weapons to turn off the fire.
-The Frozen Maw + Mai Trin mechanic (the elite guard come with the shaman and have the immunity buffs that must be removed with the shaman’s aoes).
-Golem Mark II + Frizz’s Lab mechanic.

The dragons could also come with an invasion (before the boss can be killed) like the Scarlet’s ones. Players that complete both, the invasion and kill the dragon, could have a chance to get ascended gear.

The improved bosses could drop the ascended gear pieces or components (for example Deldrimor Steel Chestplate Panel or Deldrimor Steel Ingots) depending on the dificulty and lvl of the boss.

This could also be done with tokens. All this shouldnt be limited to world bosses. Dungeons and other activities could be done to obtain them. Could even be part of the rewards given in the Faction (Orders) quests to make people travel over all the map (doing events and puzzles) to get such treassures.

I have alot in my mind but I’ll end up writing so much I’ll just confuse everyone so I’ll just leave some bullets of my main statements

1. Need better, more occurring and more varied rewards ( Such as precursors dropping ascended chests and just the things we obtain from meta’s and the items within updates)

2. To further promote alts change the world so that is a “living world” ( For example at this point the Risen should not be in the main lands of Tyria anymore but should only be in Orr and there numbers are depleting and to solve the problem Trahearne cleanses Orr changing it drastically which would make people wanna bring alts back to these zones to level them.)

3. PvE, sPvP and WvW need to be equal and provide similar rewards.

Thanks, I know its not alot but here ya go!

Aeonblade.8709:

I feel like this is completely the wrong direction. All the stats should be unlockable via something in the game mode you play in, not forcing you to do supposedly optional stuff like crafting.

I’m glad you like the idea, but what you said would actually turn me AWAY from that kind of system.

So you would prefer different accomplishments to unlock each combination within each play style? How far would you take that? Just WvW vs PvE? Then you still have the problem of WvW roamers vs WvW zergers vs WvW defenders. In PvE there’s a whole myriad of play styles: dungeon runners, harvester/crafters, farmers, fractal runners, explorers, role-players, achievement hunters, living story focused players, etc, and they will all inevitably complain if they’re forced outside their usual play area. If you try giving all play styles a way to unlock everything by only doing one thing, you’ll end up giving them nothing but a grind.

Xenon.4537:

I’d love to see it happen, but it’s unrealistic and highly impractical.

See, I don’t think it is.
What if the 2 week Living Story releases were changed to releasing new skins every 2 weeks?
And I think the whole idea of community artwork submissions has legs too. Guild Wars 1 had LOADS of weapons that were designed by the community.

@ Chris
Honestly all I want to know is if I can stop worrying about content becoming so hard I can’t do it without Ascended, and if the tiers will stop now and I never have to worry about it

I have never had even 40 g, playing since betas- yes I know :P

atm I am laboriously crafting Eye of Rodgort- even that is making me do things I don’t want to do since I need money to buy bloods.( I made Lidless eye in about 3 weeks)
Saving up for Vision of the Mists already for another character

Mostly I love running DE’s out in the open world- it is really fun for me- it is what I enjoy doing.
It leaves me completely broke- I love seeing the world and discovering things, it gives me great joy, just no gold.
I also love making and playing and gearing more characters.

Ascended might as well be on the moon as far as I am concerned because I play this game for fun- and I have had a lot of fun.

I stopped having any interest whatsoever in crafting because even though I loved it – I simply can’t afford it.

I am picking between my own goals and the goals the game hands to me that feels very arbitrary to be honest and not fun at all

Xenon.4537:

Sirendor.1394:

Maybe we should also introduce the balance of skill-reward into this discussion, since it is something which seems incredibly off balance in the case of ascended armour.

My biggest concern is that the vertical progression we have seen now requires no skill, but a lot of time

I think they want to keep the game highly accessible to players of all skill levels while offering smaller, more specific challenge content for those hardcore players. If you were here around launch you would have heard the deafening cries of people begging them to nerf dungeons (which was a shame in my opinion).

I think you first need to define what “requires skill” means both to yourself and others. Then you need to think about whether that fits anywhere within the overall game design.

This is a very good point, as much as I hate to admit it. Skill-gating can separate players as much as grind or gold requirements, and even if we think this is fair it’s not necessarily fun.

That said, it seems entirely reasonable to me that skilled players gain cosmetic benefits unavailable to other players. Think like “Arena Champion” titles or hats or whatever. No one should be that sad they don’t have a “I’m Super Skilled” hat if they are, in fact, not super skilled.

Also, while it’s true that some players can’t pass a skill gate, some can’t pass a gold or grind gate either. We can pretend otherwise, because “eventually you’ll get enough gold, as long as you save,” but I don’t think that’s a practical reality for many players, some of whom can’t outpace inflation and many of whom will just find the prospect of saving money for months for Pink items to be unfun and a reason to quit.

I will admit to having skipped a few pages of discussion, so I may reintroduce items already thoroughly discussed, if that is so I apologize.

Equipment
The idea of possible modification of ascended equipment has already been introduced and well discussed. One other possibility is the possibility of changing the possession status of an ascended item. Ascended gear is supposed to be squarely between Exotic and Legendary. I understand that, but as previous suggestions have already broached the idea of blurring those lines (i.e. limited stat changing on ascended, something currently only available to Legendary).

Someone previously has noted the discouraging element of disposable equipment and expressed a desire for upgrading instead of destroying. I would like to see the option to unlock a soul-bound ascended item (Weapon, armor AND jewelry). I imagine having two possibilities here.

One would a single use option (purchased or craft-able) for the purpose of moving an item to a different character. As others have noted, build and play styles change over time. It would be nice to be able to hand off stuff to an alt character without having to just purchase another item entirely. Single use unlocks should be somewhat expensive, but perhaps no more than 1/2 the cost of fully replacing the item.

The second is the ability to “upgrade” a particular ascended item to account bound. This should obviously be more expensive than the single unlock, perhaps 2x the cost of purchase/crafting an item. Upgrades, whether this or others to unlock stat combos should NOT interfere with other upgrades, the way infusing an item lost infusions already present. Each upgrade should be permanent.

Character
The present level cap is 80, and i imagine that more thought and framework is built around that cap than I am capable of imagining. Yet there is still some satisfaction from character development, that goes beyond equipment possession. Some of that is presently addressed with getting skill points even after lvl 80 has been achieved. I would like to see an option to spend those skill points as a form of character progression aside from unlocking all the skills. There is already an existing structure for account bonuses. I think it would be cool to be able to buy bonuses with skill points, much the same as we can progress them with achievement chests and salvaging luck. I know they would have to be expensive, especially with the way skill point scrolls can be farmed, so perhaps 100/ bonus purchased (250?). To keep people from figuring some way to skew things by exclusively stacking one bonus (say XP), the upgrades could be limited to tiers, so that if someone purchased MF first, the second could only be spent on Karma/Gold/XP, the third on the remaining 2, and the final one would be restricted to the only remaining option, but then the next tier would be open to all four again. Repeat.

In this post: Vertical Weapon progression without causing a ruckus

I provided an option for adding some vertical weapon progression without the pitfalls of adding a new BiS tier. The benefit is that making a Legacy Weapon does not actually require you to make a NEW tier but only to modify the current one.

From a Role Playing standpoint the question is: how does a Legendary Weapon get to be Legendary?
By having the very best weapons stand out above all others thru the deeds of their wielders(Legacy Weapons become Legendary over a few generations).

Now if you don’t like the idea of adding a new tier you always have to option to allow these changes to all Ascended items and make this a Horizontal progression instead of a Vertical one though I do not really like that idea as you would be taking Ascended Weapons and turning them into something different and I don’t think that is a path that you really want to tread.

Either way Ascended remains BiS.

I’m not sure what I can add about vertical progression, despite the fact that it’s something I feel strongly about. This is in part because the discussion around the subject has been framed around its “accessibility”. So it feels like all we can say about vertical progression is how we’d all like to have more varied venues in which to grind for it. Add it to WvW vendors for badges, allow us to use dungeon tokens for it, make them more convenient for alts, etc.

These are fine suggestions, but I must confess that this places me (and I suppose, people like me) in an odd position. People against its inclusion, that is.

This is my situation. I can only hope that I am not alone in this, and that, therefore, my small piece can serve to represent those like myself to you, the developers, so that at least you know we exist and still have great hopes for this game.

I am one of those players that came to this game based on pre-release marketing suggesting a lack of grinding for stats, and a relatively equal powerbase at 80 with very easy to acquire BiS gear. I know that you know the choice quote I’m talking about. Thus, you can imagine my surprise when the ease of acquiring Exotics was considered a problem instead of a positive!

What this effectively means is that any change to “accessibility” that does not amount to “easy and trivial to get, like Exotics” is meaningless to me, and those like me.

Farming 5000 Badges of Honor is preferable to grinding crafting to 500 only because you get BoH by killing people and this falls into the category of “things that I like to do in the game”. But grinding is grinding. I would have to repeat this process for every alt, and every time I wish to test a new build and see how it performs at the highest power level (which is also something that is being discussed in the thread and you’ve read about).

I suppose this places me at odds with a different audience. An audience that wants to slowly work towards their gear. And this is fine. Not every game is for every audience. That’s actually why I’m here. I’m here because I hated MMOGs, and I checked out Guild Wars 2.

It is from within these circumstances that I approach hoping that suggestions which encourage a less vertical and more qualitative implementation of Ascended gear are used in the future. People have already suggested the notion of Ascended gear that bears great quality of life abilities, like changing stats, instead of having flat out stat boosts, as possible alternatives. You have already read these suggestions – and no doubt have internally discussed their merits already. These would be my preferred implementation, but even as I say it, I recognize that such a thing applied retroactively would be fantasy.

I have but a single other suggestion I can make – and that is to consider the implementation of vertical progression in PvE as separate to WvW, as the implications for each mode are different. It seems that for the time being, you are content on focusing on horizontal progression, something that I most definitively agree with. That being said, I don’t know what will happen in the future. I do not know whether Ascended sigils, runes or higher quality Infusions lie in the works.

You could find that due to the cooperative nature of PvE in this title, and the fact that no content beyond Fractals exist for which Ascended gear is intended, the existence of such progression creates only minor competition between players. It could continue to serve its function as a goal that is harder to reach than Exotics but less so than a Legendary. Players could still progress their character by seeing small increments in numbers and this would minimally impact the progression and experience of other players.

WvW, on the other hand, directly pits player against player – those with and those without. New players already lack trait points and even the simple gear quality of Exotic – elongating the time of stat acquisition seems unnecessary as elements of vertical progression already existed within the mode, surely enough to “ease them in”. Furthermore, WvW features the one piece of content outside of Fractals that will slowly become more powerful over time – players. Mobs in PvE won’t grow stronger because of the vertical progression already in the game, but players will. Players who are new or who forsake grinding in lieu of “fun” or worse, simply have little time to play will face these more powerful enemies.

It is for that very reason that I usually avoid other MMOs. To fight other players at my best, I have to do what feels like endless grinding just to reach the same stats. I have to do it again if my build is nerfed or balance changes. It’s almost like I’m working, so that later, I can play. I just don’t think that makes for fun gameplay, which is what led me to this game.

I recognize that what I feel makes a good game might apparently be different than what your development team feels, and I guess that may make this post seem worthless, but nonetheless I thought that if there ever was a time to suggest a change for the character progression in the game, one of these threads would be it. Regardless of what comes of it, the creation of these threads deserves recognition, as at the very least, you are making the forum goers feel “heard” by the dev team. I can appreciate these attempts to listen to us and make us feel like part of the game’s growth.

I suggest a complete removal of stats from gear, or at the very least crafted gear. Have stats be tied to inscriptions and insignias that we already have the ability to craft. Give inscriptions and insignias the same function as sigils and runes. Want to change the stats? Acquire a new inscription or insignia and apply it to your item while destroying the old one.

Throw a transmutation stone into the recipe if need be.

Morrigan.2809:

@ Chris
Honestly all I want to know is if I can stop worrying about content becoming so hard I can’t do it without Ascended, and if the tiers will stop now and I never have to worry about it

I have never had even 40 g, playing since betas- yes I know :P

atm I am laboriously crafting Eye of Rodgort- even that is making me do things I don’t want to do since I need money to buy bloods.( I made Lidless eye in about 3 weeks)
Saving up for Vision of the Mists already for another character

Mostly I love running DE’s out in the open world- it is really fun for me- it is what I enjoy doing.
It leaves me completely broke- I love seeing the world and discovering things, it gives me great joy, just no gold.
I also love making and playing and gearing more characters.

Ascended might as well be on the moon as far as I am concerned because I play this game for fun- and I have had a lot of fun.

I stopped having any interest whatsoever in crafting because even though I loved it – I simply can’t afford it.

I am picking between my own goals and the goals the game hands to me that feels very arbitrary to be honest and not fun at all

Not to speak for Chris, but I’ll just offer a player’s perspective on the necessity of Ascended Gear for content.

• Ascended Gear is only required for higher tier Fractals, and even then, we are not talking about the new Ascended armor. This is only referring to rings, accessories, and weapons, as those are currently the only pieces that can accept Infusions. Also, the incremental +X design of infusions now means it’d be possible (although highly unlikely) to acquire the desired amount of AR for a given scale, even without having all ascended accessories + Ascended Weapon.

• Anyone who says otherwise (ascended required for wvw, ascended required for tequatl or large-scale encounters, etc…) is simply referring to the ability to perform at maximum efficiency (which not counting critical damage%, is only 5% better than full exotic).

• It is my understanding as a player that Anet never did intend and never will intend Ascended Gear to be a requirement for any other open PvE content. If new instances are developed cough Elite Areas, FoW, UW, etc… cough in the future, I’d say Ascended Gear may be a requirement there, if Arenanet chooses to use Agony as a mechanic in these areas.

That’s the only element I could see Ascended being somewhat of a requirement in the distant future.