Guild Wars 2

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

On the topic of making ascended gear a little more accessible, do you think there are certain exotics that deserve to be ascended? Super expensive pieces like Mjolnir or Infinite Light come to mind.

I just want to throw in my support for stat-swappable ascended gear.
No quibbles about the raw stat bump, that ship has sailed.

I just want to run multiple builds on multiple characters with different stat setups, and it’s FAR too much work trying to gear them all up. Getting about eight sets of gear for my three current level 80s, and then potentially many more as I get a couple more alts there is hugely daunting. I haven’t even crafted a single piece for my main yet, though I’m working towards it. (kitten damask!)

Comparatively, if ascended gear could swap stats freely, just getting them fully ascended once would be a worthy goal — something I could do and be assured that I was set for stats. It’d also let me experiment FAR more freely with different off-the-wall build ideas that I’d either never try or be forced to evaluate at a sub-optimal level (probably with rares).

Account-bound ascended works too, but feels weirder to me. I think having each item be owned by one character only, but that ownership not being restrictive makes a lot more sense.

Some other interesting ways we could midigate the pressure on alts is just make all ascended gear account bound it would remove some demand but it’s something we’ve discussed before.

Let me hope that a Badges of Honor -> Ascended Gear chest vendor one day appears.

+1 to both of those ideas. Also the stat changing ability on ascended gear would be really awesome to have, as it would give players a massive incentive to go for ascended.

Edit: And furthermore, giving ascended the stat-changing ability would free up a lot of bank space. Currently I have fifteen slots that take up valuable space in my bank, because I simply cannot put all my different stat armor onto any mules to make some room (because the armor is soulbound), making ascended gear not only account bound, but with the stat changing ability, would solve all of this.

I came to this thread hoping to discuss horizontal progression and i am looking forward to that discussion, but I will share my thoughts on ascended gear. The 5%-7% stat increase is small enough that it has not significantly affect my play, but I still feel as if I should pursue it to tick my numbers up just that much higher. I strongly agree with idea of normalizing max stats to exotic or even better to the maximum stats available in SPvP to facilitate balance and theory crafting. Allowing ascended gear to have the legendary stat swap ability would make the time gating worthwhile without making it feel like it was put in as an obstacle to horizontal progression. This would alleviate fears of new content being balanced around the current tier 1 ascended gear. Defining the maximum stats our characters can achieve should be done before going forward with horizontal progression as that will allow Anet to define how difficult various forms of horizontal progression are.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Everyone gets bored of playing the same style eventually, and having vastly more skills, traits and item effects help to stave this. Vertical progression doesn’t do that.

Yes it does! Imagine that you get 20 more character levels. Then you not only get your stats increased. You also get new trait level! So that you can choose up to 4 traits in each line. You also get more trait points. That enables more build variety and flexibility! All those things are Vertical Progression.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

Just a question really. I know that mine was a later post, but does your above statement include drops that would help increase crafting rates of ascended items? Like drops of mithrilium, spiritwood planks, and other such higher ascended mat drops?

HiddenNick.7206:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Everyone gets bored of playing the same style eventually, and having vastly more skills, traits and item effects help to stave this. Vertical progression doesn’t do that.

Yes it does! Imagine that you get 20 more character levels. Then you not only get your stats increased. You also get new trait level! So that you can choose up to 4 traits in each line. You also get more trait points. That enables more build variety and flexibility! All those things are Vertical Progression.

Or they could lock that stuff behind additional challenge-based content – for example, getting your final 30 attribute points in GW1 required completion of some additional quests, not grinding of additional levels.

EDIT: Almost forgot that changing your secondary profession was handled similarly in GW1 Prophecies – a quest to unlock it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Ascended Gear mats dropping more equally across the game, for example WvW.

Additional ways to earn Ascended Gear at accelerated for Alts.

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

I’d like to ask/add that for all forms of Ascended gear, there should be an acquisition method that does not in any way rely on RNG – that is, a method for which players can see a definitive maximum amount of effort.

This is currently present for Rings (Pristine Fractal Relics or Laurels), Back Items (Relics are earned consistently, skill points are earned consistently, and at least the Vial of Mist Essence is extremely likely to drop before the player can afford enough relics to ascend the capacitor anyways), Amulets (Laurels) and Accessories (Guild Commendations), but not really for anything else, as armor and weapons require RNG components.

There needs to be some method of getting weapons/armor for which you can see exactly how much content it will require. Perhaps RNG can be used to give the process a chance to be faster, while retaining a baseline progression rate even if the player is unlucky – for example, if one of the materials required only drops from champions, but you always get at least 1, with a chance of getting 2 or 3 instead. So the player knows they’ll need to kill a maximum of, say, 50 champions, but it’s possible they’ll need less.

Current forced RNG on Weapon/Armor progression:
- Globs of Dark Matter
- Globs of Ectoplasm, T6 fine materials, Crystalline Dust (If not bought from TP)
- Cloth and Leather (Bows/Armor, if not bought from TP)
- All other materials can be earnt at a minimum rate in some game content

I don’t mind timegating, so long as multiple characters don’t share the same timegate – that being the case, I’d like to see an acquisition method for ascended armor/weapons where the timegate is locked to the character attempting to get the gear. I’ve already proposed something along the lines of using a consumable to begin a quest to ascend an item – perhaps each item’s progress on that quest has timegates, but those timegates are character-specific.

Finally, on costs – there should be a longer method that’s relatively cheap for the player. Casual players can’t afford to keep up with the costs of ascended weapons and armor with the amount of playtime they have. Again, Rings, Back Items, Amulets and Accessories handle this well, and everything else is done pretty badly.

If it’s possible to rework the crafting system, perhaps it would’ve been better to timegate the process of levelling a craft, but make the process of actually crafting ascended gear at 500 relatively cheap and fast. For example, a consumable craftable once per day which increases the maximum level of the craft by x points, with different versions needed at 425/450/475 (this way a character could potentially level the craft by crafting this consumable and selling it when they don’t need it). This could have value on the TP in the same way T7 materials do now – valuable when released and dies off once people have reached the point they want to get to.

And after that, make the actual ascended gear itself quick to make. Maybe it could even be added now – have the player level their crafts from 500 to 600 over time, and at 600 they simply get cheaper recipes for ascended gear.

Nike.2631:

Guhracie.3419:

I’m in total agreement about consensus vs. balance, but I think it’s clear that balance isn’t being discussed here, on many levels.

Heehee. To me Balance is the only thing being discussed – not the balance between which character can throw 20,000 points of damage down range the fastest or who can push the highest green numbers over a 5 second ‘moment of crisis’ test because they have stats XYZ from gear ABC…

…Its about the balance between activities and their rewards.

Ascended gear represents a big general nerf to casual playstyles, no argument.
But its an even bigger targeted nerf to Gold Almighty.

When the gearing up meta-game became “You can run off a full set of Exotic Armor by running a dungeon roughly 40 times taking fully active play for around 7 hours vs. you can run up enough gold to buy the same Exotic Gear stat-wise in 10 minutes of marketplace orders” yeah, there were balance issues being addressed by the introduction of a new tier that cannot be bought and sold.

For example I’m glad there is now a way to get repeatedly get Ascended Back items without running fractals ever (the two crafted ones just introduced). The WvW players who didn’t enjoy fractals needed at least the possibility of getting one to regain true parity. OTOH I’m faintly disappointed that the method added is almost entirely gold-gated rather than keyed to Badges of Honor.

To me that’s still a balance issue. It starts with balancing numbers, but it’s not resolved until you’ve balanced opportunities.

((Hmm, suddenly I have a craving for fortune cookies ))

I still say that class balance should come before gear balance. But your point is well-taken- we are discussing balance after a fashion, and it is important in the sense that it relates to the “play how you want” idea that makes the game so appealing to many of us.

I do want to point out that my issues with class balance have almost nothing to do with balancing the numbers.

Faowri.4159:

HiddenNick.7206:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Everyone gets bored of playing the same style eventually, and having vastly more skills, traits and item effects help to stave this. Vertical progression doesn’t do that.

Yes it does! Imagine that you get 20 more character levels. Then you not only get your stats increased. You also get new trait level! So that you can choose up to 4 traits in each line. You also get more trait points. That enables more build variety and flexibility! All those things are Vertical Progression.

Or they could lock that stuff behind additional challenge-based content – for example, getting your final 30 attribute points in GW1 required completion of some additional quests, not grinding of additional levels.

Ye… But it would still be a Vertical Progression just locked behind those specific quests instead of XP (that requires you to do anything you like).

I agree, I would very much like to know if this is the final stat or vertical progression so I can just continue to ignore it in favor of my own in game goals.

I care about horizontal progression and that is what keeps me playing since betas.

I have no interest in ascended gear at all.
and I will keep all my characters in exotic as long as I am allowed to do so by the game mechanics.

I do hope that a vendor in WvW will ultimately one day provide us with the option of buying ascended weapon & armor chests for badges of honor (And a bit of gold perhaps as a money sink – something like 10 gold?). Because it’s all very well increasing the odds, but if your luck is like mine (going 444 WvW ranks without a single ascended chest), kitten luck x kitten luck is still kitteny luck.

We need more guaranteed ways of obtaining ascended, like others have suggested, using different currencies for ascended chest rewards, I.E. badges of honor, fractal relics/pristine fractal relics, karma, dungeon tokens, etc. etc.

As a follow up to my previous post, I have some specifics that would make me likely to return to the game. My apologies that I’m not really in the flow of the conversation, as I don’t currently have the free time to follow it. As a passionate follower of GW2 who went from loving the game to leaving it over Ascended gear, I’d like to at least offer my two cents to the devs with this CDI opportunity.

Make high tier mats available throughout the world – What if, at level 80, you could unlock the option that gathering nodes in all zones have a chance to give you mats from any tier? People who want to farm exclusively top tier mats could still stick to their farming paths through the level 80 zones and get only top tier mats from nodes, but those of us who would like to play in the entirety of Tyria could opt to get a mix of mats. If the option is selected by the player, a node would give an equal chance of producing its normal tier of mat or higher with each harvesting tool swing.

I’ll point out that there is little risk for a character, even in cursed shore, once you are outfitted in exotics. This system, though, would address the perceived difficulty of higher level zones because you eliminate lower tier mats from your loot table when harvesting. The highest tier nodes would only give the highest tier mats. The lower tier nodes would give correspondingly fewer top tier mats.

Build on the contribution system to provide loot corresponding to effort Soloing a DE out in the world can be much more work and risk than showing up at Shatterer to PvToe. They can be as much work as dancing around Golem’s electrical fields and machine guns. Yet, comparatively, they reward nothing.

The game already has a system for judging my contribution to DEs. Expand that so that if I do a DE solo or with a few people who were nearby when it started and we put in some serious effort to defeat it, we can get awarded with dragonite, higher tier mats, and/or more cash than pocket change. If it’s possible to make the system sophisticated enough, it could even be anti-farm, since it would be able to judge that an autoattacking zerg that mows over a DE is only worthy of a minimal reward.

Make it possible for us to move through the entire world and still make reasonable progress toward Ascended gear, rather than funneling us to champ trains, world bosses, and endless node loops through Frostgorge and Orr.

Rework crafting from 400 to 500 Let us craft the pieces for Ascended gear from 475 to 500 so we aren’t just making very expensive exotics to salvage or sell. Make it so that when we hit 500 we already have the pieces and the only thing unlocked at 500 is the ability to put them together into the finished weapon.

Drastically increase rewards in WvW Enough has been said about this, but I want to reiterate it. I’m tired of feeling like I need to spend time outside of WvW if I want to progress the gear I want to use inside of WvW.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

I would like to voice my love for this idea. As it is currently, ascended gear is very expensive. The cost of getting your crafting up to 500, the time gated T7 mats, the Obsidian shards and all the other expensive mats just to craft a single set of Ascended gear is substantial for what I imagine is a large portion of the playerbase. If the cost remains the same (as I imagine it will) the ability to change the stats of said gear in a manner similar to legendary weapons would be a welcome addition, in my opinion.

I think it would increase the incentive for players to reach for it. Pair armor where I can switch my stats on the fly with the ability to change my traits on the fly and you will have my sold forever! Storage space is precious as it is already, this would be a godsend.

I would like to throw out there, that if you plan on making ascended gear have some sort of stat-swapping on it (particularly ascended armor), you really should make an announcement IN THE GAME as well as on the boards here.

Why? Because if you do not, and it takes months to implement (which it probably will, coding doesn’t happen overnight), and people make multiple sets for their individual character (a soldiers, a berserker, an invaders….etc)….they will be seriously Kittened off unless of course you combined the stat-swapping with making them account bound so that these people who already made multiple sets could then give the extra sets to their ALTS (or make ALTS for them to use).

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the next evolution of the original Vertical Progression proposal based on a summary of our discussions:

Regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method.

A review of current RNG metrics.

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Ascended Gear mats dropping more equally across the game, for example WvW.

No more new Gear tiers that make the existing tiers obsolete.

Additional ways to earn Ascended Gear at accelerated for Alts.

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of actions or schedule.

Chris

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

The ability to change gear stats and a (much) easier way to gear our alts with ascended are the two most important things personally.

You have shown some doubts about the first of the two (if I didn’t interpret you wrongly), but ascended not being an obstacle to build diversity should be a pretty high priority, both because it goes well with how the game is designed, and because it promotes horizontal progression.

Now, the best way to execute that is up to discussion. Being able to change stats is one possible solution. Being able to create a duplicate with different stats is another solution (and the one I’ve been suggesting strongly, because it also helps alt-gearing, killing two birds with one stone).

I just want to note that there’s a risk for a stat-changing mechanic to go horribly wrong. If it works like it currently does for legendary gear, fine. If it requires being at a crafting station every time you need to change stats, it’s not fine. Remember, people want this feature to change builds more often and more easily. Forcing them to go to a crafting station and spending materials every single hour to experiment or play with new builds won’t work.

If a money/ material sink is absolutely necessary here, then I’ll once again redirecttwards my idea to duplicates with different stats. They could be crafted with a small investment, but after doing so, they would be placed at a player’s inventory, and the player could swap them anytime they would wish for.

This suggestion would also create an interesting mechnical distinction between ascended and legendary gear. Ascended gear would promote build diversity with duplicates of the same item type with different stats, demanding more inventory space. Legendary would promote build diversity with changeable stats in the same copy of the item, saving up inventory space, because you wouldn’t need different copies for different stats. Of course, if you just inject the legendary’s stat-swapping mechanic as it is into ascended, I won’t mind either! :P Even better for me, as a player.

Finally, thanks for your (on-going) effort Chris! Can’t wait until we start discussing horizontal progression. This thread’s getting pretty big, though. xP

For me, changing my stats is a MUST. I’d rather be able to enjoy the game, constantly tweaking my builds to perfection than worrying about being stuck with the gear I have until I’ve farmed enough for a second, third, fourth set and so on. However as it stands I feel that getting a full set of legendary gear (if that’s the route you’re going with stat changing) would take YEARS to accumulate, and stat changing would definitely be beneficial to WvW teams who encounter a specific tactic and can actively change their stats to hard counter said tactic, rather than mashing their faces into the same brick wall, and provide a route to take for skilled and thoughtful play, especially in WvW/PvE world events.

Morrigan.2809:

I agree, I would very much like to know if this is the final stat or vertical progression so I can just continue to ignore it in favor of my own in game goals.

I care about horizontal progression and that is what keeps me playing since betas.

I have no interest in ascended gear at all.
and I will keep all my characters in exotic as long as I am allowed to do so by the game mechanics.

Horizontal Progression keeps you playing? There is very little of that in the game right now. So what are you talking about exactly? I’m not calling you a liar… I just don’t know what you have in mind?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the next evolution of the original Vertical Progression proposal based on a summary of our discussions:

Regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method.

A review of current RNG metrics.

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Ascended Gear mats dropping more equally across the game, for example WvW.

No more new Gear tiers that make the existing tiers obsolete.

Additional ways to earn Ascended Gear at accelerated for Alts.

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of actions or schedule.

Chris

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

I just want to make a quick comment on changing gear stats. I’m not a fan of stats on gear to begin with. The reason being that it limits builds. I either have to have several sets of gear for different builds or I stick to a small subset of builds. One of the best parts of the original Guild Wars was the ability to change builds and experiment. By giving ascended gear the ability to change stats you open up much more options for build diversity. I can run PVT armor with hammer in WvW and zerker armor with greatsword in CoF without having to have two different sets of gear. Additionally, there would be a lot more retraiting going on, which could be a nice additional gold sink. So, yeah, for me stat changing would be a huge boon.

VOLKON.1290:

I think we’re putting too much thought into “vertical” progression. It should be clear that hardly anyone (a vast minority) wants a continual power creep to be added to the game. So, for the sake of simplicity, let’s say that ascended gear is it. That is max “power”. If that can be agreed upon then the whole topic of vertical itself comes screeching to a halt and we automatically shift to the horizontal line of thinking… now that we know and have resolved ourselves to the idea that ascended is it, how accessible do we make ascended?

Are we? It was pretty clear that hardly anyone wants continual power creep a year ago as well yet here we are with the ascended gear. The strongest statement I’ve seen for not having more in the future is “I certainly hope not”, that is a very weak statement without any sort of commitment. I find the lack of conviction to be very disturbing.

So we’ve seen a few things already mentioned in the thread… adding more viable means to acquire ascended gear and making the ascended gear more flexible such that someone with many alts or many build selections for their character doesn’t need to spend vast amounts of time getting the gear they want, however there still needs to be a notable investment in time to get the gear in the first place (otherwise everyone will be geared too quickly and start looking for “what’s next?”).

Why must the next thing be chasing after newer and shinier gear? Why can’t it just be time spent playing the game instead of time spent getting ready to play the game? Why must everything revolve around chasing shinies? Are we all skritts?
I guess some of that is from all those stories of find the magical doodad to slay the evil MacGuffin but we should break away from that. More adventuring and overcoming challenges and less gearcheck.

Allow the flexibility to change the stats on the ascended gear (as you can on Legendary) so that the time it takes for one character to get geared won’t have to be duplicated multiple times for that same character. Personally the idea I like best in this regards is being able to use t-stones (already in game) to change the inscriptions (weapons) or insignias (armor) on the gear (as opposed to combining two pieces of gear). For example, for a sword simply craft a new insignia and use a t-stone to put those stats on the sword, destroying the old insignia in the process.

That is still a hefty price tag for armor due to the cost of insignias. It would be over 20g+ per change plus the cost of the stones. After a couple of respecs you would have spent enough to craft another set. That approach is good if you are only ever going to change once in a blue moon. If you change frequently it is still a vast pile of gold.

Ascended Armor Features

Instead of making ascended armor stats changeable, I would rather do it by “upgrading” an ascended armor to a legendary one. Seeing it more like the precursor for legendary armor. Stat’s wouldn’t increase. The only change would be aesthetics and stat change feature.

Ascended Armor RNG/Acquiring

I think it’s fine how they are acquired right now. Maybe increase a little bit the RNG for drops, but otherwise I think we are fine.

Some Ideas of mine:
- Rework the reward system for defeating world bosses, you should get a better reward for beating a boss instead of two blues and a green which also drop from trash mobs.
-add a hard mode for dungeons with unique rewards
-add raids ( max 10 players, but it could be a problem with the actual class system “every class can do everything” u know what i mean )
-as mentioned before rework crafting 400-500
-continue the dragon story, before the dragons fall asleep ( maybe in the crystal desert or the northern shiverpeak mountains )

PS:I dont know if this was mentioned before , but when can we expect the precursor crafting update ? A lot of players would appreciate this.
( the recipe shouldn’t be a drop, u should buy it by a vendor )

Khisanth.2948:

VOLKON.1290:

I think we’re putting too much thought into “vertical” progression. It should be clear that hardly anyone (a vast minority) wants a continual power creep to be added to the game. So, for the sake of simplicity, let’s say that ascended gear is it. That is max “power”. If that can be agreed upon then the whole topic of vertical itself comes screeching to a halt and we automatically shift to the horizontal line of thinking… now that we know and have resolved ourselves to the idea that ascended is it, how accessible do we make ascended?

Are we? It was pretty clear that hardly anyone wants continual power creep a year ago as well yet here we are with the ascended gear. The strongest statement I’ve seen for not having more in the future is “I certainly hope not”, that is a very weak statement without any sort of commitment. I find the lack of conviction to be very disturbing.

Agreed. We have no guarantees. Even if Ascended is the final tier, which we haven’t been given an unequivocal statement about, we’ve also been told that ArenaNet is committed to continual, gradual vertical progression.

There are plenty of avenues for this without implementing a new tier of gear. We don’t yet have ascended equivalent runes, sigils, infusions or consumables. All of these things can gradually be implemented over the next year, and all with as steep of an acquisition curve as Ascended armor and weapons.

In addition, the last statement we have from ArenaNet is that they expect there to eventually be a level-cap increase, though we have no time-frame hinted at. That means we could have level 90 Ascended gear to chase.

Going on ArenaNet’s most recent statements surrounding this area, we can (without 100% confidence) expect not to see a gear above Ascended, but also expect that vertical progression will continue for the foreseeable future.

Statements that Ascended is the final tier of gear do not mean that vertical progression has ended.

Statements in this thread that they want to concentrate on horizontal progression do not mean that vertical progression has ended.

Anyone who thinks that the release of ascended armor has put an end to VP is either not paying attention, or really wants to believe it in spite of the evidence we currently have.

Ordwen.3217:

Some Ideas of mine:
- Rework the reward system for defeating world bosses, you should get a better reward for beating a boss instead of two blues and a green which also drop from trash mobs.
-add a hard mode for dungeons with unique rewards
-add raids ( max 10 players, but it could be a problem with the actual class system “every class can do everything” u know what i mean )
-as mentioned before rework crafting 400-500
-continue the dragon story, before the dragons fall asleep ( maybe in the crystal desert or the northern shiverpeak mountains )

PS:I dont know if this was mentioned before , but when can we expect the precursor crafting update ? A lot of players would appreciate this.
( the recipe shouldn’t be a drop, u should buy it by a vendor )

90% of your points are offtopic

better loot for worldbosses when most of the players just spam 1 is not a good idea

As far as stat swapping goes, I recommend equalizing the price and ease of crafting of all kinds of stat spreads. It was disheartening finding out that Rabid equipment costs five times more than Assassins or Berserkers and I flat out couldn’t afford it. The current prices discourage build diversity and it bars me from enjoying certain classes because I cant gear them properly. Along with this, the ability to choose a Soulbound sets stats as you equip it would be nice. In it current state, I feel like its just a passive way to force us to buy transmutation stones and grind for yet another set of armor.

Long story short, let us choose our favored stats on a Soulbound set (dungeon and karma sets etc.) and have them stay that way. As far as crafting goes, equalize prices and ease of crafting on rarer stat spreads so we don’t have to shell out a massive amount of money on a new set. (Sentinels, Rabid etc.)

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Even though my more specific questions and suggestions haven’t been replied to I want to say thank you for the opportunity, I enjoy this collaboration a lot and I’m looking forward to contribute about horizontal progression.

The thing that gets me most exited from your last post is the review of RNG in GW2. I think the current implementation just doesn’t feel very rewarding. Thanks for reading.

I very much hope to see clear results from these CDI topics down the road.

It’d be great, after the process of going through the information, talking behind closed doors, spending the months it takes to implement changes, and finally putting it into game, if Chris could point back to these threads and show us where something in this conversation made a real difference in the game.

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

I want to clarify my opposition: I am against casual stat swapping. A number of schemes have been put forward that involve a very modest level of commitment to rotate a set. Those sound both interesting as in-game activities and less likely to invalidate parts of the system we have currently.

I still see these prompting a complex set of refunds for duplicate recipes/items to avoid punishing early adopters, but that’s not an insurmountable bit of coding.

It is my least favorite approach and I worry that it will compound poorly with other changes, but it is rich with potential. My vote would simply be “approach cautiously” not “no”.

When I read Chris’ quote my first thought was “who would be against this, and why”, so I’m glad someone posted so we can discuss!

I agree it shouldn’t be too easy. Since my main concern with ascended gear is what to do with my old gear if I decide to change my stats, I’d even be fine with having to craft a second weapon and combine them, but I’m sure others will be more concerned with the cost and grind.

Do you think unlocking stats for one weapon type should unlock that stat for all weapon types? How about other weapons of the same type? How should sigils be handled?

My opinion:
Sigils and runes can continue to work as they do now.
Unlocking a stat should unlock it for all weapons of the same type
Unlocks should be ?-bound (on the fence here, I mainly play 1 character but sympathise with the plight of altoholics so this one needs to be part of that discussion).
If it’s a choice between the two, I’d much rather have stat-switching on ascended gear than keeping it account-bound.

I think it’s important to consider the implications of such a system in terms of lower tier items. Compared to exotics, would this system perhaps be too convenient? Or does the cost justify it?

Gibson.4036:

Khisanth.2948:

VOLKON.1290:

I think we’re putting too much thought into “vertical” progression. It should be clear that hardly anyone (a vast minority) wants a continual power creep to be added to the game. So, for the sake of simplicity, let’s say that ascended gear is it. That is max “power”. If that can be agreed upon then the whole topic of vertical itself comes screeching to a halt and we automatically shift to the horizontal line of thinking… now that we know and have resolved ourselves to the idea that ascended is it, how accessible do we make ascended?

Are we? It was pretty clear that hardly anyone wants continual power creep a year ago as well yet here we are with the ascended gear. The strongest statement I’ve seen for not having more in the future is “I certainly hope not”, that is a very weak statement without any sort of commitment. I find the lack of conviction to be very disturbing.

Agreed. We have no guarantees. Even if Ascended is the final tier, which we haven’t been given an unequivocal statement about, we’ve also been told that ArenaNet is committed to continual, gradual vertical progression.

There are plenty of avenues for this without implementing a new tier of gear. We don’t yet have ascended equivalent runes, sigils, infusions or consumables. All of these things can gradually be implemented over the next year, and all with as steep of an acquisition curve as Ascended armor and weapons.

In addition, the last statement we have from ArenaNet is that they expect there to eventually be a level-cap increase, though we have no time-frame hinted at. That means we could have level 90 Ascended gear to chase.

Going on ArenaNet’s most recent statements surrounding this area, we can (without 100% confidence) expect not to see a gear above Ascended, but also expect that vertical progression will continue for the foreseeable future.

Statements that Ascended is the final tier of gear do not mean that vertical progression has ended.

Statements in this thread that they want to concentrate on horizontal progression do not mean that vertical progression has ended.

Anyone who thinks that the release of ascended armor has put an end to VP is either not paying attention, or really wants to believe it in spite of the evidence we currently have.

You are talking like Vertical Progression is the next bad thing after meteor shower! And why is it so bad? Why do you think that Horizontal Progression is vastly superior to it? You’re not playing an ordinary game. You’re playing an MMO game. And that’s the kind game of game that grows vertically and endlessly (or to the moment when people stops playing it) whether you like or not. And characters should grow with it.

Nike.2631:

StriderShinryu.6923:

…it’s becoming pretty clear at this point that the CDI is not what I interpreted it as being. I hesitate to call it an outright failure as, at best, we’re not going to be seeing any of the fruits of our labour for at least several months but the reality of what we are seeing now is definitely not what I was anticipating when the CDI stone was started in it’s rolling.

I’m sort of curious what you thought could happen that isn’t or the time you felt was reasonable to see ideas be converted into action?

Because personally, I find the turn around time between the close of the Living Story CDI and the announcement that the 2 week release schedule is being put on hold AND their revealing in advance the end date for the Scarlet Storyline were breathtakingly fast manifestations of that discussion.

Cause and effect, as far as I can tell.

I just find that the positives of the CDI should not just come in the form of results, but in the form of the actual process. It still feels to me as if we’re dealing with the Wizard of Oz here as opposed to engaging in any sort of actual collaboration. Devs responses are few and far between, and are still highly in the form of “Interesting idea,” “We’ve talked about that in our meetings -winky face-” or “Hey you guys, you should talk about this now!” The back and forth of actual collaboration and discussion is missing, and we’re still largely being stonewalled from almost anything that’s really going on or has gone on behind the development curtain.

I also find it disappointing that the main thrust of the process just seems to be a reiteration of the dozens and dozens of threads we players have already had on these exact topics already, in some cases for over a year now. Given that there’s a lack of actual interaction, the threads that have existed to this point may in many ways just be copy and pastes of threads that are already here.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?
Chris

Yes.
No unlockable additions to gears as many has suggested, including me, has been added to the proposal.
Sure, you stated that you didn’t want to comment on them, which I can accept and understand.
But they have been suggested quite a few times from several different people and if they can be implemented they would be quite intersting and a nice way to progress.
Therefore I think they should be added to the proposal even if you do or don’t comment on them.

TLDR section of my part of that discussion:

• Platform for unlocking skins, stats and upgrades for certain gears, ascended and/or cultural. Cultural was my focus to make it more interesting.
• Allows for vertical and horizontal progression at the same time both in terms of stats and skins.
• Also allows for easy change of builds to make a player more useful in a team.
• Takes away value loss.
• Can make Ascended not a detour but a slot in between Legendary and Exotic.

There were some nice suggestions in the thread.
Links to my posts about it can be found here:
Platform
Unlockables
More arguments and explanations

HiddenNick.7206:

You are talking like Vertical Progression is the next bad thing after meteor shower! And why it’s so bad? And why do you think that Horizontal Progression is vastly superior to it? You’re not playing an ordinary game. You’re playing an MMO game. And that’s the kind game of game that grows vertically and endlessly (or to the moment when people stops playing it) whether you like or not. And characters should grow with it.

Personally, I see horizontal more as growth of options, whereas vertical is simply numbers going up.

As such, I prefer a focus on horizontal since allowing players more options allows for more varied mechanics, whereas vertical is more a case of ‘I did 10 damage now I do 12’ so the growth of options isn’t there, thus encounter mechanics have to stay within the limit of the tools the player has.

Notes:

• Some WvW players do enjoy crafting, it’s just that with queues the way they are at peak hours, they aren’t going to craft because there are no crafting stations outside of their home borderland. If the choice is to craft a thing and wait for half an hour or more to play with their friends again, or not craft it, you can imagine what they’re going to choose.
• Is there any good reason that celestial exotics should be time-gated anymore now that ascended armor and weapons are in the game? Turn that gate off.
• The special exotics that world bosses have (ie, Final Rest on Shadow Behemoth) should have a nontrivial chance of dropping as account-bound ascended instead. Or just be switched to always drop as ascended.

HiddenNick.7206:

Gibson.4036:

Khisanth.2948:

VOLKON.1290:

I think we’re putting too much thought into “vertical” progression. It should be clear that hardly anyone (a vast minority) wants a continual power creep to be added to the game. So, for the sake of simplicity, let’s say that ascended gear is it. That is max “power”. If that can be agreed upon then the whole topic of vertical itself comes screeching to a halt and we automatically shift to the horizontal line of thinking… now that we know and have resolved ourselves to the idea that ascended is it, how accessible do we make ascended?

Are we? It was pretty clear that hardly anyone wants continual power creep a year ago as well yet here we are with the ascended gear. The strongest statement I’ve seen for not having more in the future is “I certainly hope not”, that is a very weak statement without any sort of commitment. I find the lack of conviction to be very disturbing.

Agreed. We have no guarantees. Even if Ascended is the final tier, which we haven’t been given an unequivocal statement about, we’ve also been told that ArenaNet is committed to continual, gradual vertical progression.

There are plenty of avenues for this without implementing a new tier of gear. We don’t yet have ascended equivalent runes, sigils, infusions or consumables. All of these things can gradually be implemented over the next year, and all with as steep of an acquisition curve as Ascended armor and weapons.

In addition, the last statement we have from ArenaNet is that they expect there to eventually be a level-cap increase, though we have no time-frame hinted at. That means we could have level 90 Ascended gear to chase.

Going on ArenaNet’s most recent statements surrounding this area, we can (without 100% confidence) expect not to see a gear above Ascended, but also expect that vertical progression will continue for the foreseeable future.

Statements that Ascended is the final tier of gear do not mean that vertical progression has ended.

Statements in this thread that they want to concentrate on horizontal progression do not mean that vertical progression has ended.

Anyone who thinks that the release of ascended armor has put an end to VP is either not paying attention, or really wants to believe it in spite of the evidence we currently have.

You are talking like Vertical Progression is the next bad thing after meteor shower! And why is it so bad? Why do you think that Horizontal Progression is vastly superior to it? You’re not playing an ordinary game. You’re playing an MMO game. And that’s the kind game of game that grows vertically and endlessly (or to the moment when people stops playing it) whether you like or not. And characters should grow with it.

I’m not sure why you seem to think horizontal progression results in no character growth.

Regardless, I’m not playing just any MMO game. I’m playing an MMO that promised a vertical stat progression cap and horizontal progression and rewards. Cosmetics, new traits, new skills, new weapons, new ways to use those skills, new character-based areas to grow such as housing – all of this was on the cards. But I’m sure we’ll come onto that once the discussion moves on.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the next evolution of the original Vertical Progression proposal based on a summary of our discussions:

Regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method.

A review of current RNG metrics.

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Ascended Gear mats dropping more equally across the game, for example WvW.

No more new Gear tiers that make the existing tiers obsolete.

Additional ways to earn Ascended Gear at accelerated for Alts.

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of actions or schedule.

Chris

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

I agree with this completely :-) Even with the stat swapping. It is hard enough to make one full ascended gear for one character. Making another for different build is like equiping alt. And one brainstorm in regard of this. If we will some day have any way how to equip our alts more easily with ascendeds but nothing will be done for different build. It will be actualy much easier to create new character of same class and equip him like alt with easy way then making new build for old character harder way. I pesonaly would cetainly do it, becouse leveling is not big problem :-) This could lead to uncontrolled alt making where every player has at least 3 characters of each class he play :-D This would be very weird and GW2 unique don’t you think? :-D

HiddenNick.7206:

You are talking like Vertical Progression is the next bad thing after meteor shower! And why is it so bad? Why do you think that Horizontal Progression is vastly superior to it? You’re not playing an ordinary game. You’re playing an MMO game. And that’s the kind game of game that grows vertically and endlessly (or to the moment when people stops playing it) whether you like or not. And characters should grow with it.

Go look at GW1.

This was billed as the MMO that DIDN’T have VP. It was supposed to be different. However, you and all the other MMO content locusts, rammed through everything in one month, then scared Anet into releasing content for people they didn’t even market the game to.

There is an endless variety of MMOs with the endless vertical progression you desire. This game wasn’t built for it, but added as a complete kneejerk reaction, with devs lying/claiming they didn’t lie/proved they were lying/claiming “you didn’t understand what i said”. Leaving the community/dev interaction completely hostile to one another, resulting in the CDI efforts being put forth now. All because you wanted a carbon copy clone of every other MMO experience with slightly different graphics.

Septemptus.7164:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i’ll say this again.

allow us to have horizontal progression in our gear.
allow each gear to unlock stats one by one, swap stats when out of combat via a menu.
allow each gear to unlock skins one by one, swap skins when out of combat via a menu.

best horizontal gear progression ever!
thank you.

please help to spread and support.

also, please remove level cap increase off the table.
please also remove higher tier than ascended off the table.

this means the maximum level 80 will not be increased, ever. and the highest tier ascended will not be any higher. ever. please. yes. thank you.

I would love the idea to kinda divide ascended and legendaries like this:
Legendaries- you have everything like you want:
- stats change (full list)
- looks change (similar list with all possible looks from this kind of a weapon)

Ascended items:
- quest, do LS, dungeons, fractals, etc – to unlock stats change on the item one by one.
- quest, do LS, dungeons, fractals, etc – to unlock skin change on the item one by one.

Exotic items:
- pay for transmutation crystals to change look one time
- pay for stat change crystal to change stats one time.

I personally would go very much for it and I would have real means for progression.
The system would also give legendaries value of the ultimate item and ascended would be really between exotics and legendaries.
Basically this would ROCK BIG TIME! (for me)

Still new legendaries should be creatable only by BTA items (aside from those already in TP)

This sounds fantastic, and it would really motivate me to put some effort toward acquiring a legendary. Changing appearance on the fly in addition to stats seems like a fair option for the legendary items to have. +1

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the next evolution of the original Vertical Progression proposal based on a summary of our discussions:

Regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method.

A review of current RNG metrics.

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Ascended Gear mats dropping more equally across the game, for example WvW.

No more new Gear tiers that make the existing tiers obsolete.

Additional ways to earn Ascended Gear at accelerated for Alts.

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of actions or schedule.

Chris

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

I would say that a pretty fair summation of the ascended part of the discussion.

Hi Chris,

There were many comments on all aspects of the proposal. I just want to add an easy way to mitigate ascended stat swap. Just add a retrainer for, let’s say, 10s a piece. You still need to retrain traits anyway (around 4s) so it’s not a big deal. And legendary owners also have some advantage of not visiting this trainer/paying money.

HiddenNick.7206:

You are talking like Vertical Progression is the next bad thing after meteor shower! And why is it so bad? Why do you think that Horizontal Progression is vastly superior to it? You’re not playing an ordinary game. You’re playing an MMO game. And that’s the kind game of game that grows vertically and endlessly (or to the moment when people stops playing it) whether you like or not. And characters should grow with it.

I’m not sure how you got that out of that post. It was in response to a conversation about whether we can accept that Ascended is the final tier of gear, which means the discussion about vertical progression is over, and we can move on to just talking about horizontal progression.

I was pointing out that, quite the contrary, ArenaNet is committed to continuing vertical progression, and therefore the subject is far from closed.

As to your assertion that MMO automatically means vertical progression, that is certainly the tradition of MMORPGs, but there is nothing inherent in Massive, Multiplayer, Online, or Role Playing Game that means vertical progression is necessary.

There are plenty of Multiplayer games, Online games, and Role Playing Games that do not have continual, vertical progression.

I am also not dead set against vertical progression. I do, however, hate the current implementation of Ascended gear for a variety of reasons I’ve listed previously.

Vertical progression that flows naturally out of immersive gameplay is fine. GW2 leveling is an example. Vertical Progression where the extrinsic reward vastly eclipses the intrinsic rewards (Ascended Gear) is what made me take a break from playing GW2.

Septemptus.7164:

I would love the idea to kinda divide ascended and legendaries like this:
Legendaries- you have everything like you want:
- stats change (full list)
- looks change (similar list with all possible looks from this kind of a weapon)

Ascended items:
- quest, do LS, dungeons, fractals, etc – to unlock stats change on the item one by one.
- quest, do LS, dungeons, fractals, etc – to unlock skin change on the item one by one.

Exotic items:
- pay for transmutation crystals to change look one time
- pay for stat change crystal to change stats one time.

I personally would go very much for it and I would have real means for progression.
The system would also give legendaries value of the ultimate item and ascended would be really between exotics and legendaries.
Basically this would ROCK BIG TIME! (for me)

Still new legendaries should be creatable only by BTA items (aside from those already in TP)

I like these suggestions and it would motivate me more to do the various different types of content.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the next evolution of the original Vertical Progression proposal based on a summary of our discussions:

Regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method.

A review of current RNG metrics.

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Ascended Gear mats dropping more equally across the game, for example WvW.

No more new Gear tiers that make the existing tiers obsolete.

Additional ways to earn Ascended Gear at accelerated for Alts.

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of actions or schedule.

Chris

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

Just that I’d like to voice support for changeable stats

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the next evolution of the original Vertical Progression proposal based on a summary of our discussions:

Regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method.

A review of current RNG metrics.

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Ascended Gear mats dropping more equally across the game, for example WvW.

No more new Gear tiers that make the existing tiers obsolete.

Additional ways to earn Ascended Gear at accelerated for Alts.

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of actions or schedule.

Chris

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

How much more time investment does ArenaNet expect from its players before they can acquire best-in-class equipment?

It used to be that just doing the dallies would be enough but not anymore. Now you need to do the dallies to get your laurels AND also farm world bosses for dragonite, AND farm champions for bloodstone dust AND farm jumping puzzles or WvW for your empyreal. This game has become a time-investment creep just to get the most effective gear!

I suggest as part of the reward for doing the dallies, give some amount of bloodstone dust + dragonite ore + empyreal fragments. Otherwise, we would have to acknowledge the fact that this game is not for busy people, unless they don’t mind wearing sub-optimal gear relative to their peers. Either that or make ascended gear or visual crystals (or its ingredients) able to be traded.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the next evolution of the original Vertical Progression proposal based on a summary of our discussions:

Regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method.

A review of current RNG metrics.

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Ascended Gear mats dropping more equally across the game, for example WvW.

No more new Gear tiers that make the existing tiers obsolete.

Additional ways to earn Ascended Gear at accelerated for Alts.

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of actions or schedule.

Chris

Bump. We are close to being able to move onto the ‘focused’ Horizontal Progression part of this conversation.

Does anyone have anymore comments on the proposal above based on our discussions?

Chris

Izzy mentioned earlier that ArenaNet’s stance is that obtaining ascended gear should take a long time. I was very pleased to see quite a number of people calling that out as being a problem, but at the same time, it’s worrying to see that one of the biggest core philosophies for GW2 is no longer shared between ArenaNet and the players.

• It’s okay for legendary weapons to be costly and to take a long time to obtain. They’re vanity items and don’t contribute to vertical progression.
• It’s okay for account bonuses like gold find, magic find, etc. to take a long time to boost up. They’re nice passive bonuses that don’t actually contribute to the gameplay itself and our characters’ capabilities.
• It’s okay for PvP Rank to take a long time to raise. It’s something meant to be able to last players for years, and doesn’t have any effect on gameplay or character capabilities.

It’s not okay for obtaining ascended gear to be as costly as it is, as time-consuming as it is, and as limited as it is when it has an actual effect on vertical progression for our characters. The claim that ascended items “create a bridge between exotic and legendary” is bogus, the reasoning having been stated a number of times throughout this thread. I sincerely hope you guys understand why, because until you do, I’m worried about anything substantial being done to put ascended gear in the role it actually fills . Ascended gear has no business being as costly, both in time and resources, to obtain as it is. It’s a very slight upgrade from exotics, and as such, should take a very slight amount of time, effort, and/or resources to obtain.

A lot of the proposals are going to be working off of each other, and as such, I think it’s very, very important that you take time and revisit the crafting requirements on ascended items based on how you move forward with regards to the ability to change stats and the methods of making multiple sets for both different builds and alts. The recipes need to require less materials. The time-gating needs serious adjusting, if not complete removal. The reliance on laurels needs to be cut back. Crafting is miserable enough as it is, and there is absolutely nothing enjoyable or fulfilling about the process of crafting ascended gear.

And finally, I just wanted to bring up one last thing really quickly before we move on to horizontal progression that I haven’t seen mentioned yet:

With regards to the changes to infused ascended gear and the agony resistance slots…
Why were the new agony resistance slots implemented the way they were? We’re still stuck using our offensive and defensive infusion slots on Versatile Agony Resist infusions if we want to advance in fractals, and now we just have an extra slot to put more agony resistance. Free up the infusion slot so that we can actually use it for its original purpose. Make all ascended gear have +5 agony resistance inherently, drop the versatile infusions, and make obtaining more agony resistance done purely through the designated agony resistance infusion slot.

I think what a lot of people who have never played GW1 don’t realize: a mmo can just be fine without vertical progression, IF there is something else to progress (like different skills in GW1).

GW2 at it’s current state wouldn’t work with no vertical progression. There need to be something that would take it’s place (a LOT of new skills for example), but there isn’t. A single healing-skill a month won’t do.

replacing an armorset with another isn’t progression.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

[…]

RNG: One of the best ways you’ve come up with to ease RNG is tokens and containers that let you choose stats. This could be mixed by adding some sort of very rare drop that can be traded in a generic ascended merchant, and the merchant has one item per weapon/armor type, and you can choose the stats with that item. So if you get lucky enough to get a very rare ascended drop, at least is something you can always use.

Stats: I really like the idea of being able to ‘feed’ ascendeed with stats. Not just ascended stats,but also exotic. You get an ascended weapon, and you can ‘feed’ it your old rares, exotics and ascended. And the ascended item ‘remembers’ the best combination of stats you ever gave it, and you can switch between them. Just like legendaries, but slower as you have unlock the stats progressively instead getting all ascended stats at once like you do in a legendary. This would increase the size of each item, though, as each ascended would have to get something like a bitarrary property indicating unlocked stats.

Drops: I don’t know about ascended drop rates. Even if you made them as high as T6 materials… well, over 3500 hours of gameplay, and I still got more T6 materials from loot bags that directly from drops, and more from the clover recipe that from bags. And I’m not even close to getting 250 of each for a legendary. Everyone I know got them by buying them on the trading post. And I don’t like buying the stuff. I filled my hall of monuments’ armor section with drops without farming or trading, and I still want to do that. I should be able to play to get my stuff, not work making gold to buy the stuff from others.

Alts: One possible way to make things easier for alts is replacng the current recipe with a recipe of an unlocker. An item that grants to the account access to a cheaper version of the item recipe, plus one copy of the item itself.
People who had already crafted one of the original items would get the recipe unlocked when they login with a character that has one of those items in their inventory, and the recipe would be updated.

Also, recipes to ‘upgrade’ exotic items to ascended would be welcomed. Got lucky enough to get an exotic in a dungeon or from a champion loot bag? Gather some ascended materials, and with a mystic forge recipe that includes a vision crystal, you can ascended it.

So far as Trait progression goes for vertical progression, what about something like out of Path of Exile where we unlock additional trait points from special rare tomes that we get from completing difficult solo or group quests? (So really its closer to GW1, but I never got that far. Ele/War all solo was not kind at times. =P)

(Actually I’d say just take a look at the Path of Exile passive skill tree for fun, even if its not something flows with GW2. I don’t think Guild Wars 2 would ever need a skill tree this big, but I like the concept of separate paths to things. Kindof a pipe dream thought. Also seperate for GW2 – it probably wouldn’t be shared across class, but the concept of getting to different parts of the tree through different paths could still be interesting.)
Passive skills/traits for POE : http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree

Anyway that’s my random fart in the wind thought I had.
I love the game and think its kind of the devs to set this up at all. Its very hard to listen to people throw ideas around without any idea of the cost associated without slamming on the panic breaks. But you guys are managing it, overall, better than I would be.

It was mentioned previously, but I would like to highlight the function of making ascended gear permanently account bound (regardless of upgrade/transmute). Let’s look at it realistically, ascended gear (particularly light armor) requires a huge amount of work to obtain, which is then further limited by what you actually obtain:

- One item
- Locked to one character
- For one stat combination

For most things there is a trivial difference between ascended an exotics, but that difference can matter and can be unsettling knowing the original way the game was marketed to prevent this. By making an item account bound, it can be moved to alts if you change character or the balance team decides your pve build is having negative impact on their glorious esports. [b]This additional functionality, removes the necessity of the vertical gear treadmill and offers additional utility based functionality[b] which makes sense:

White/Blue/Green/Yellow/Orange – Gear that provides the majority of stats
Ascended – Able to use infusions (fractals, wvw benefits, utility benefits). Account bound.
Legendary. – Infusions. Account bound. Able to change stats. (Able to change sigil would really really help btw)

As for ascended gear changing stats, a while back there was a gem store item datamined to allow an item to change stat combination, will this ever exist? What about an item in game which costs essence of luck/ecto’s or some sort of currency to allow you to change the stats on one item? That way the functionality is available but legendary gear can do it permanently.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the next evolution of the original Vertical Progression proposal based on a summary of our discussions:

Regarding Ascended Gear we would like to see more ways to earn it and in terms of drop rates, a higher percentage chance of acquiring them through this method.

A review of current RNG metrics.

The ability to change gear stats (Note there is still a lot of discussion about whether people want this or not)

The ability to build up to Ascended Gear through drops rather than just relying on RNG.

Ascended Gear mats dropping more equally across the game, for example WvW.

No more new Gear tiers that make the existing tiers obsolete.

Additional ways to earn Ascended Gear at accelerated for Alts.

Note this is the formulation of a proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of actions or schedule.

Chris

There was an idea floating around some time ago. Was about what makes legendary a legendary weapon: it should be only the craft or also matters the use? (legendary weapons become legendary bcs great things were done with them). All that ended in the idea of make items able to level up (could come with the unlock of new skins, and increase of rarity/tier).

The idea is that the armor and weapons could lvl when are used in combat. Ofc, this shouldnt be easy, it should only be an alternative to the other ways to get them.