Guild Wars 2

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

Why not. If I’m correct the PS ends with a events where you attack a dragon from a zeppelin (that is an air-ship) and if we would have PvP / WvW air-maps guilds might fight each other. It would require new type of open world events (in the air) but it would be possible.

For clarification, the dragon fight takes place in a dungeon, and it is a heavily scripted encounter. It would be a far cry from an air battle between two guild ships.

I can see the jokes now. “Press 2 to GvG”.

Though, I could see ship battles taking an interesting turn. Have a navigator piloting, turret operators, add in a repair minigame… It could be kind of like Puzzle Pirates where everyone contributes to the fight, and the success or failure of one person can mean the success or failure of the whole fight.

Puzzle Pirates is an interesting case. I don’t think it could translate well to this game, due to the underlying design.

daft inquisitor.1605:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sort of like this. One of my big oppositions to mounts any time it comes up (and if anyone decides to start talking about mounts off this, I will find you) is how it could negatively affect performance. I think a couple hundred guild ships parked over Cursed Shore would be just the sort of negative impact on performance I’d be scared of.

From my personal suggestion (and others that have fallen in line), it wouldn’t be “hundreds of ships”. It would be one ship per map instance. Maybe expand it to be two or three. But definitely not free-open, anyone-can-go-there. That would DEFINITELY be a performance bottleneck. It would be heavily regulated by instances, specifically to prevent this type of issue.

But I don’t think a few statically docked (yes, they would not be player-controlled) airships per map would be absolutely fine without causing any extra stress.

I think it could be highly limiting on how many guilds could have ships, then . . . consider how many guilds there are, just on one server. More than enough to dock three ships at every zone in the game. Yes, even including ones nobody goes to, like Brisban Wildlands.

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

You would see Tyria below you (representation of the map) and the information (model and location air-ship_ from a sky-map are being send to normal maps so on the ground so you would see guild-ships high high really high in the sky.

(not that you could jump of and land on the map or anything like that)

In that case it would make sense your air-ship would be able to fly in that sky-map.

I see this as being much less feasible than having a guild airship “parked” in the sky on a map. It’s much easier to have an airship be a part of a map than to constantly pull an update an “image” of the map — especially going two ways (both having the guild hall pull the image of the zone, and then having the zone pull the image of the guild hall).

It should not be so hard really. It’s similar to having a party-member. If you look at the map you see where he is on the map even while he is in another instance. Now add the model information to it and you got all the information you would need here.

Also the sky map would not need much information from the ground map, it just shows a map of Tyria far below so don’t need any of that information. Maybe the weather from the map to show correct clouds and so on but it’s possible that the weather system is done by another server / part of the server software. Not by the map. (in that case the ground map would not need to send any information to the sky-map)

All the sky-map would need to send to the linked ground-map would be the models of the air-ships and the location of them on the world-map.

With that information the ground map would then be able to visualize the air-ships high in the sky. (there are optimizations possible like not sending the whole model but only what you would see from below).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

Why not. If I’m correct the PS ends with a events where you attack a dragon from a zeppelin (that is an air-ship) and if we would have PvP / WvW air-maps guilds might fight each other. It would require new type of open world events (in the air) but it would be possible.

For clarification, the dragon fight takes place in a dungeon, and it is a heavily scripted encounter. It would be a far cry from an air battle between two guild ships.

I can see the jokes now. “Press 2 to GvG”.

Though, I could see ship battles taking an interesting turn. Have a navigator piloting, turret operators, add in a repair minigame… It could be kind of like Puzzle Pirates where everyone contributes to the fight, and the success or failure of one person can mean the success or failure of the whole fight.

Puzzle Pirates is an interesting case. I don’t think it could translate well to this game, due to the underlying design.

Puzzle Pirates specifically, no. However, if we take that type of gameplay and retrofit it to be styled like GW2, I can definitely see it working. It just has to be a minigame of some kind, like how operating and aiming a turret (like in the Zhaitan fight) was sort of like a minigame.

It wouldn’t be point-and-press, it would be dynamic aiming. I think that would only be fair, and be more realistic too.

Devata.6589:

It should not be so hard really. It’s similar to having a party-member. If you look at the map you see where he is on the map even while he is in another instance. Now add the model information to it and you got all the information you would need here.

Except, if you actually want to have details show up, you’re going to have to poll everything that’s happening in that map. All the players, all the enemies/events that are going on, etc. Because I think that would be a big thing, people would want to look down from the airship and actually see what’s happening in real-time.

Which, again, is why it would make more sense to just have it in the same instance as the map itself. I personally don’t see a reason to make this magical “high atmosphere” zone just for airships — It would be a big resource burden all on its own, especially if it’s supposed to bridge the entirety of the continent all at the same time. That would be insanity.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

As for exhibit B . . . airships so far have been largely lighter-than-air craft when larger than a fishing boat in size, and have had a relatively sparse size even on the Glory of Tyria from the end of the game. I can’t imagine guild ships would be that much bigger . . .

Zephyr Sanctum.

daft inquisitor.1605:

Puzzle Pirates specifically, no. However, if we take that type of gameplay and retrofit it to be styled like GW2, I can definitely see it working. It just has to be a minigame of some kind, like how operating and aiming a turret (like in the Zhaitan fight) was sort of like a minigame.

Again: “Press 2 to win GvG”.

I don’t know what it is you’re seeing when you’re describing this sort of transfusion of one game type into another. I could see a lot of ways to do it, but they all fall right back into the slightly snarky bit just above. It sounds like a good idea on paper . . . but once I close my eyes and start drawing it out in my head we get to the problem of how it already worked.

Or in this case, didn’t and became infamous. Almost as infamous as “two blues and a green”.

It wouldn’t be point-and-press, it would be dynamic aiming. I think that would only be fair, and be more realistic too.

That might work if it used the cannons from WvW so you could aim them more or less where you could see.

But the issue of how to make active movement work . . . I don’t think it really could.

Torsailr.8456:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

As for exhibit B . . . airships so far have been largely lighter-than-air craft when larger than a fishing boat in size, and have had a relatively sparse size even on the Glory of Tyria from the end of the game. I can’t imagine guild ships would be that much bigger . . .

Zephyr Sanctum.

Which still wasn’t all that much for internal space or even on-deck space for all that it was relatively massive.

daft inquisitor.1605:

Which, again, is why it would make more sense to just have it in the same instance as the map itself. I personally don’t see a reason to make this magical “high atmosphere” zone just for airships — It would be a big resource burden all on its own, especially if it’s supposed to bridge the entirety of the continent all at the same time. That would be insanity.

Magical high atmosphere?

Just make it the Mists so we can keep any remote PvP experience there rather than on Tyria. Heck, the Mists don’t even have a space limitation since it’s a highly metaphysical realm in the first place.

If you could tie it in to WvW some how, to build upon the Alliance/Guild server idea you’re coming up with all the better.

I’d like a large area/court yard where u can invite opposing guilds to GvG, and have a wall in the middle with readable plaques of the guilds u have GvG’s in your GH and the results of that fight.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Devata.6589:

You have not followed the whole thread? One of the popular suggestions was guild-halls as air-ships. And those would then be placed in sky-maps high above Tyria.

Oh, I have. I think it’s a terrible idea. Okay, to be fair it’s not entirely terrible, but some of the implications are . . . questionable, in my mind.

You would see Tyria below you (representation of the map) and the information (model and location air-ship_ from a sky-map are being send to normal maps so on the ground so you would see guild-ships high high really high in the sky.

Sort of like this. One of my big oppositions to mounts any time it comes up (and if anyone decides to start talking about mounts off this, I will find you) is how it could negatively affect performance. I think a couple hundred guild ships parked over Cursed Shore would be just the sort of negative impact on performance I’d be scared of.

So the inside of your guild-hall would be instanced and the outside would not

But then what is ‘inside’. If I build it my self I would be able to not build any walls so basically do not have an inside.

And exhibit A on how the players will break any idea within four hours no matter how you intend it to be. (No, that’s not necessarily a shot at you – I think a ‘glade’ type guild hall might be interesting, but it would sorta kinda break the idea of a guild hall as . . . well . . . a hall.)

As for exhibit B . . . airships so far have been largely lighter-than-air craft when larger than a fishing boat in size, and have had a relatively sparse size even on the Glory of Tyria from the end of the game. I can’t imagine guild ships would be that much bigger . . .

And before someone brings up the Breachmaker, remember the interior was largely there as part of a mechanism to keep it running. And there’s no idea exactly how it was designed in the first place. With highly limited mobility, from the implications of its design and only two uses.

About the air-ships.

They would not litteraly be in the sky, it would be a seperate sky-map (that covers the hole of Tyria not just one map). That sky map would then send information to a ground-map it get’s linked to and all it has to do is send a model of the ship (this can be extremely optimized, only giving the information needed so would you would see from below and it could even be 2D so like a texture.) and the location.

The ground-map then shows those high in the sky (like how you would see a air-plain in the sky in real-life.. when not living next to a airfield).

That should really not be so much information that it would cause for lag or other performance issues. Even with well over 100 of them.

“a ‘glade’ type guild hall might be interesting, but it would sorta kinda break the idea of a guild hall as” It’s what you have to think of when people can create there own guild-halls. You can not force them to have a true / hidden inside.

“airships so far have been largely lighter-than-air craft when larger than a fishing boat in size, and have had a relatively sparse size even on the Glory of Tyria from the end of the game.”

When I think of GW2 air-ships there are two things that come to mind (for me) the Zephyr Sanctum and the air-castle in Kessex Hills. So it looks like size and gravity don’t matter that much in Tyria. Meaning guild-halls could be huge and heavy.

Well, it looks like there’s a relatively large split here about what we envision for how airships will be linked to ground areas.

Devata just wants a large air zone with tons of guilds in it that essentially has a map of Tyria below it. Whereas I want airships physically in the zone, seeable from the ground, providing its own instance for players to do events and map exploration “with their guild”, so to speak. (Forgot to mention, I’m Shadow, just switched accounts. :p)

The airship combat is a different discussion itself, which is why I haven’t gone into it too deeply here. That’s related far more closely to the GvG discussion than the Guild Hall discussion. As stated earlier, let’s get the current topic discussed and settled before moving on to the next.

Whatever happens with the guild halls, there will be a way to make it work with GvG. People will make it work somehow if it needs to.

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

It should not be so hard really. It’s similar to having a party-member. If you look at the map you see where he is on the map even while he is in another instance. Now add the model information to it and you got all the information you would need here.

Except, if you actually want to have details show up, you’re going to have to poll everything that’s happening in that map. All the players, all the enemies/events that are going on, etc. Because I think that would be a big thing, people would want to look down from the airship and actually see what’s happening in real-time.

Which, again, is why it would make more sense to just have it in the same instance as the map itself. I personally don’t see a reason to make this magical “high atmosphere” zone just for airships — It would be a big resource burden all on its own, especially if it’s supposed to bridge the entirety of the continent all at the same time. That would be insanity.

I think we have a misunderstanding on the hight.
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/thumbnail.php?img=media/2011_AF6_FF_F11_10387PR_1267828237_6919.jpg&size=a

This is sort of how Tyria would look like below. Everything happening on the ground would simply be to small to see. So because of that there is no need to send all the information. And the other way around. Guildhalls would be very big so you would see them but still see them very small (so no need for a full 3D model to be rendered).

“Which, again, is why it would make more sense to just have it in the same instance as the map itself.” That would in fact create much more problems because now all the information needs to be communicated ver that map. Now there really are multiple new models in the sky (the air-ships but also the players on it) and you would have a problem with the available space what would be way more limited this way.

As you said, it’s an issue of height. I would rather see the Airships themselves be distinguishable from the ground. I mean, Guilds want their presence to be seen in the world, right? If your airship is miles up, how are you going to be able to even tell its your guild’s airship?

I see the ships being much lower to the ground — maybe on par or just a tad higher than some of the climable mountains in zones. I would want to be able to see details — heck, I would want to be able to wave to other players (from the ground/nearby cliff) if they’re standing on the deck of the ship.

daft inquisitor.1605:

Well, it looks like there’s a relatively large split here about what we envision for how airships will be linked to ground areas.

Devata just wants a large air zone with tons of guilds in it that essentially has a map of Tyria below it. Whereas I want airships physically in the zone, seeable from the ground, providing its own instance for players to do events and map exploration “with their guild”, so to speak. (Forgot to mention, I’m Shadow, just switched accounts. :p)

The airship combat is a different discussion itself, which is why I haven’t gone into it too deeply here. That’s related far more closely to the GvG discussion than the Guild Hall discussion. As stated earlier, let’s get the current topic discussed and settled before moving on to the next.

Whatever happens with the guild halls, there will be a way to make it work with GvG. People will make it work somehow if it needs to.

I don’t really see it as an either or scenario.

Why can’t you have Airship docks in a zone and a Sky map for free roaming/travel between maps? Then let guilds sort themselves out.

Torsailr.8456:

daft inquisitor.1605:

Well, it looks like there’s a relatively large split here about what we envision for how airships will be linked to ground areas.

Devata just wants a large air zone with tons of guilds in it that essentially has a map of Tyria below it. Whereas I want airships physically in the zone, seeable from the ground, providing its own instance for players to do events and map exploration “with their guild”, so to speak. (Forgot to mention, I’m Shadow, just switched accounts. :p)

The airship combat is a different discussion itself, which is why I haven’t gone into it too deeply here. That’s related far more closely to the GvG discussion than the Guild Hall discussion. As stated earlier, let’s get the current topic discussed and settled before moving on to the next.

Whatever happens with the guild halls, there will be a way to make it work with GvG. People will make it work somehow if it needs to.

I don’t really see it as an either or scenario.

Why can’t you have Airship docks in a zone and a Sky map for free roaming/travel between maps? Then let guilds sort themselves out.

I was thinking about that myself. I just personally don’t see the merit of the “sky map” for travel. I mean, what purpose would it have?

I could see it being a warzone for GvG battles, yeah, but at the same time, I couldn’t imagine that would span the breadth of all of Tyria like was suggested. This is just my personal opinion of course. I’m not saying there’s no merit to it whatsoever, I just don’t see it myself.

From my perspective on this — where is there to travel? It’s just a bunch of open air and clouds, and some other guild ships. That’s not exciting to me. The only noticable feature would be the terrain below us, but even then, it would pretty much just be the world map, which is precisely as interesting to me as opening the “M” menu on a character. There just isn’t anything worth seeing there.

So, what’s the purpose of it? What can you do on this air map that you can’t do elsewhere, and why? That’s what a lot of the Guild Hall discussion has boiled down to, so I think it’s a good question.

JonPeters.5630:

I wanted to dig into the instanced vs non-instanced debate a bit. Here are 4 questions I’ll pose:

The “Benefits of Open World in a system where guild halls are instanced” is going to heavily reference my post earlier in this thread.

What do people see as the benefits of instanced?

• No Land Grabs
  • Fighting over the ‘best’ plots.
  • Reaching a point where there are no plots left.
• Privacy
  • Say / emote would not be widely visible for roleplayers.
  • Guild meetings / discussions cannot be overheard.
• Ease of navigation (Housing districts in other MMOs are huge zones filled with same-looking houses that are easy to get lost in).
• Upkeep fees less necessary.
• More varied locations (Guild Halls not be situated on ‘realistic’ terrain, but can be on islands, in the mists, airships, etc.)
• Larger area in which to work (the open world approach would require lots of halls to occupy a shared space).

What do you see as the benefits of open world guild halls?

• Less likely to create the impression of an uninhabited world.
  • Cities would still become less populated, but at least housing areas wouldn’t be.
• Creates sense of community by establishing relationships with other guilds.
• A more visible sense of accomplishment.
• Able to incorporate gameplay elements (Dynamic events, etc.) into the same space.
  • The “Housing Zone” need not be just for housing; things can happen in the city streets and common space between all of those guild halls.

How could we get the benefits of instanced guild halls in a system of open world guild halls?

• (Privacy) Chat / emote inside guild halls cannot extend beyond the lot size.
• (Land Grab) remove all sense of ‘land’; every housing plot is identical and exists apart from all others (Airships / Islands in the Mist)
• (Navigation) Simply ensure the housing zone’s terrain is varied enough, has highly visible landmarks and an abundance of waypoints.

How could we get the benefits of open world guild halls in a system where guild halls are instanced?

• (Depopulation) Limit the number of amenities available within guild halls so players have to leave them for some things.
• (Depopulation) Place the guild hall portals within cities, away from Waypoints, so that traveling into the instance at least forces players into visible areas.
• (Community) Multiple guilds inhabit the same instance (“neighborhoods”)
• (Visibility) Allow guild halls to be displayed within the non-instanced cities via a housing competition or other mechanic.

daft inquisitor.1605:

As you said, it’s an issue of height. I would rather see the Airships themselves be distinguishable from the ground. I mean, Guilds want their presence to be seen in the world, right? If your airship is miles up, how are you going to be able to even tell its your guild’s airship?

I see the ships being much lower to the ground — maybe on par or just a tad higher than some of the climable mountains in zones. I would want to be able to see details — heck, I would want to be able to wave to other players (from the ground/nearby cliff) if they’re standing on the deck of the ship.

“how are you going to be able to even tell its your guild’s airship?” How I envisioned it: As guild you would start with unlocking your basic guild-hall airship. This has everything you need including things to expand your guild-hall.

At the bottom (so looking from the ground) there is the guild-emblem.
So this is what you would always see from the ground and for the most basic guild-hall it would be everything you would see from the ground. When building (basically around this basic part) you can make any shape you want. From the ground you would see that shape (and the colors). You would not see the full model.

Shape and emblem shows it’s your ship.

But guild-halls are still completely visible in the sky-map itself.

In your interpretation they would also only be visible if you would be in that same map.

So from a presence viewpoint that would not change, in fact it would be visible for more people in the way I envisioned it.

Not to say there can not be some mix of the two. Maybe you can sometimes dock into a map? there has been talk about that. then you ix the two interpretations.

JonPeters.5630:

On the editing topic I’ve seen a few things listed.

• NPCs
• fixed placement
• grid placement
• free form placement
• upgrading placed things

Assuming everything has a cost:
Some questions with sample answers:
Q: what kind of thing would you be ok with static placement?
A: a giant stone carving of Colin.
Q: What kind of things do you think work fine with grid placement?
A: A theatre where my guild can roleplay how angry we are with the guild hall system in game.
Q: What stuff would you want to have free placement?
A: Statue of Chris Whiteside

Jon

On some guilds I’ve been in, we used to make “parties” after certain events, like for guild promotions, or after a huge success of some sort.
I know many players are familiar with this idea, we can put a banquet down, a barrel of beer (or mead?), some banners, some toys, and people enjoy it. But what if GH could make those kind of events more sophisticated?

I bring this to discussion because of both, what kind of static assets we could put there, and about the instanced vs open world debate.

For this kind of activities, a guild should be able to decide who participates and who doesn’t, not necessarily restricted to who is in the guild or not. → ability to invite guests to your Guild Hall

With this, I think we can mix the idea of instanced and open world, as suggested by some users on this thread, having an “outside” and an “inside” of the Guild Hall, the outside serves the purpose of affecting the environment, showing off, and it’s customization should be (in my opinion) based around presets, can be a lot of variety there, but it shouldn’t be based on a level of customization that could “damage” the visual integrity of the game.
While in the inside, we should be able to arrange, and re-arrange assets inside, we wouldn’t want to have the “party setup” forever, but we could make it for an special event, and change it back later. This assets I’m talking about can range from being furniture, to flags, statues, or elements with some extra utility, like a forge, a crafting station, or anything like that.

In this matter, grid based placement works well when making rooms and setting up the space inside of the Guild Hall, while furniture and such, work better with free placement.

In this example, is easy to guess that, if you want to make a huge event and invite friend guilds and other players, you need a big place. So the amount of available space could be part of the Guild Halls progression too, being able to make a huge event is, in part, a way of showing off, and just as in complicated sociopolitical situations, is a way of showing power to your neighbors.

(just wanted to bring in an example so we can picture better how this things would work on a daily basis)

daft inquisitor.1605:

Torsailr.8456:

daft inquisitor.1605:

Well, it looks like there’s a relatively large split here about what we envision for how airships will be linked to ground areas.

Devata just wants a large air zone with tons of guilds in it that essentially has a map of Tyria below it. Whereas I want airships physically in the zone, seeable from the ground, providing its own instance for players to do events and map exploration “with their guild”, so to speak. (Forgot to mention, I’m Shadow, just switched accounts. :p)

The airship combat is a different discussion itself, which is why I haven’t gone into it too deeply here. That’s related far more closely to the GvG discussion than the Guild Hall discussion. As stated earlier, let’s get the current topic discussed and settled before moving on to the next.

Whatever happens with the guild halls, there will be a way to make it work with GvG. People will make it work somehow if it needs to.

I don’t really see it as an either or scenario.

Why can’t you have Airship docks in a zone and a Sky map for free roaming/travel between maps? Then let guilds sort themselves out.

I was thinking about that myself. I just personally don’t see the merit of the “sky map” for travel. I mean, what purpose would it have?

I could see it being a warzone for GvG battles, yeah, but at the same time, I couldn’t imagine that would span the breadth of all of Tyria like was suggested. This is just my personal opinion of course. I’m not saying there’s no merit to it whatsoever, I just don’t see it myself.

From my perspective on this — where is there to travel? It’s just a bunch of open air and clouds, and some other guild ships. That’s not exciting to me. The only noticable feature would be the terrain below us, but even then, it would pretty much just be the world map, which is precisely as interesting to me as opening the “M” menu on a character. There just isn’t anything worth seeing there.

So, what’s the purpose of it? What can you do on this air map that you can’t do elsewhere, and why? That’s what a lot of the Guild Hall discussion has boiled down to, so I think it’s a good question.

It can have many purposes. But one of the nice things is that you see other ships fly by even if you fly without direct goal.

Also you could make dynamic events in that sky-map. Dragons that come up would come to mind. (those events might then reward you a place on the real map if they would do a mix of both systems) Or maybe you like PvP and like to fight each other on the ship.

With you alliance guilds you could fly in (or form) a formation. It would give more possibilities as a guild-hall stuck in one place on the ground don’t you think? And where else would you expect those air-ships to be? I would think, in the air. Just flying around.

Devata.6589:

daft inquisitor.1605:

Torsailr.8456:

daft inquisitor.1605:

Well, it looks like there’s a relatively large split here about what we envision for how airships will be linked to ground areas.

Devata just wants a large air zone with tons of guilds in it that essentially has a map of Tyria below it. Whereas I want airships physically in the zone, seeable from the ground, providing its own instance for players to do events and map exploration “with their guild”, so to speak. (Forgot to mention, I’m Shadow, just switched accounts. :p)

The airship combat is a different discussion itself, which is why I haven’t gone into it too deeply here. That’s related far more closely to the GvG discussion than the Guild Hall discussion. As stated earlier, let’s get the current topic discussed and settled before moving on to the next.

Whatever happens with the guild halls, there will be a way to make it work with GvG. People will make it work somehow if it needs to.

I don’t really see it as an either or scenario.

Why can’t you have Airship docks in a zone and a Sky map for free roaming/travel between maps? Then let guilds sort themselves out.

I was thinking about that myself. I just personally don’t see the merit of the “sky map” for travel. I mean, what purpose would it have?

I could see it being a warzone for GvG battles, yeah, but at the same time, I couldn’t imagine that would span the breadth of all of Tyria like was suggested. This is just my personal opinion of course. I’m not saying there’s no merit to it whatsoever, I just don’t see it myself.

From my perspective on this — where is there to travel? It’s just a bunch of open air and clouds, and some other guild ships. That’s not exciting to me. The only noticable feature would be the terrain below us, but even then, it would pretty much just be the world map, which is precisely as interesting to me as opening the “M” menu on a character. There just isn’t anything worth seeing there.

So, what’s the purpose of it? What can you do on this air map that you can’t do elsewhere, and why? That’s what a lot of the Guild Hall discussion has boiled down to, so I think it’s a good question.

It can have many purposes. But one of the nice things is that you see other ships fly by even if you fly without direct goal.

Also you could make dynamic events in that sky-map. Dragons that come up would come to mind. (those events might then reward you a place on the real map if they would do a mix of both systems) Or maybe you like PvP and like to fight each other on the ship.

With you alliance guilds you could fly in (or form) a formation. It would give more possibilities as a guild-hall stuck in one place on the ground don’t you think? And where else would you expect those air-ships to be? I would think, in the air. Just flying around.

While those are some interesting ideas, I don’t think it would be possible for one single map zone to be able to do “all of that”. I mean, the reason we have segregated PvP and WvW maps is because, I’d imagine, the “zone type” itself has to be set up to be that way. You have to assign players to colors so that they’re distinguishable from one another, and then set it up so that all colors see other colors as enemies.

Now, you could very well make it so that it automatically is set up that way, with each guild being assigned a color. However, then how do you stop larger guilds from continuously preying upon smaller guilds? Not only would you “wreck” the guild-hall experience for players, but you’d also force them into a PvP scenario any time they visited their guild hall.

For “aimlessly flying around”, I don’t see why there is a reason for that in this game. Yes, you can “Mindlessly wander around” in zones already, but that’s simply you avoiding (or not aimfully going towards) other goals that are already present. In a “sky map” like this, it would either have to have content which could be difficult to manage (as you said, random dragon attack events, but again that would take people away from their “guild hall as a refuge”, and turn it into “guild hall as a battleground”, and there would be no way for you, the player, to control that), or it would be a completely wide open space with literally nothing going on ever.

Neither situation sounds like a good solution to me.

Twinny.9304:

I’d like a large area/court yard where u can invite opposing guilds to GvG, and have a wall in the middle with readable plaques of the guilds u have GvG’s in your GH and the results of that fight.

This wouldn’t work.
We already have this in OS inside WvW, yet nobody uses it.
We need an organized system for GvG a la PvP.

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

daft inquisitor.1605:

Torsailr.8456:

daft inquisitor.1605:

~

I don’t really see it as an either or scenario.

Why can’t you have Airship docks in a zone and a Sky map for free roaming/travel between maps? Then let guilds sort themselves out.

I was thinking about that myself. I just personally don’t see the merit of the “sky map” for travel. I mean, what purpose would it have?

I could see it being a warzone for GvG battles, yeah, but at the same time, I couldn’t imagine that would span the breadth of all of Tyria like was suggested. This is just my personal opinion of course. I’m not saying there’s no merit to it whatsoever, I just don’t see it myself.

From my perspective on this — where is there to travel? It’s just a bunch of open air and clouds, and some other guild ships. That’s not exciting to me. The only noticable feature would be the terrain below us, but even then, it would pretty much just be the world map, which is precisely as interesting to me as opening the “M” menu on a character. There just isn’t anything worth seeing there.

So, what’s the purpose of it? What can you do on this air map that you can’t do elsewhere, and why? That’s what a lot of the Guild Hall discussion has boiled down to, so I think it’s a good question.

It can have many purposes. But one of the nice things is that you see other ships fly by even if you fly without direct goal.

Also you could make dynamic events in that sky-map. Dragons that come up would come to mind. (those events might then reward you a place on the real map if they would do a mix of both systems) Or maybe you like PvP and like to fight each other on the ship.

With you alliance guilds you could fly in (or form) a formation. It would give more possibilities as a guild-hall stuck in one place on the ground don’t you think? And where else would you expect those air-ships to be? I would think, in the air. Just flying around.

While those are some interesting ideas, I don’t think it would be possible for one single map zone to be able to do “all of that”. I mean, the reason we have segregated PvP and WvW maps is because, I’d imagine, the “zone type” itself has to be set up to be that way. You have to assign players to colors so that they’re distinguishable from one another, and then set it up so that all colors see other colors as enemies.

Now, you could very well make it so that it automatically is set up that way, with each guild being assigned a color. However, then how do you stop larger guilds from continuously preying upon smaller guilds? Not only would you “wreck” the guild-hall experience for players, but you’d also force them into a PvP scenario any time they visited their guild hall.

For “aimlessly flying around”, I don’t see why there is a reason for that in this game. Yes, you can “Mindlessly wander around” in zones already, but that’s simply you avoiding (or not aimfully going towards) other goals that are already present. In a “sky map” like this, it would either have to have content which could be difficult to manage (as you said, random dragon attack events, but again that would take people away from their “guild hall as a refuge”, and turn it into “guild hall as a battleground”, and there would be no way for you, the player, to control that), or it would be a completely wide open space with literally nothing going on ever.

Neither situation sounds like a good solution to me.

Oow no I would not think you would have the different modes in the same map. You see there will be multiple instances of the sky-maps anyway. (and what you see from the ground would only be one of them.. what ever sky-map that ground map get’s linked to).

But that also means you could decide if you would want to go to a PvP or WvW, or GvG or PvE sky-map and the stuff to do there would be depending on that.

About the guild-hall as battleground.. You attack the dragon, not the other way around so if you are not interested you just ignore the event just as you would be able to do on the ground now. And go mind your own business inside the guild-hall or watch how another guild is taking on the dragon.

Devata.6589:

At the bottom (so looking from the ground) there is the guild-emblem.
So this is what you would always see from the ground and for the most basic guild-hall it would be everything you would see from the ground. When building (basically around this basic part) you can make any shape you want. From the ground you would see that shape (and the colors). You would not see the full model.

From the distance that you’re talking about, a guild ship would have to be absolutely MASSIVE to distinguish a guild emblem from the ground, without it appearing as just a dot in the sky. I think your mental sense of scale here is a bit off.

As I said, I’d rather just have the guild airship docked in the zone itself, close enough that you can actually see the the details and all of the customizations you’ve made, and where you can actually show off your guild hall/ship to anybody — as this would be an open-world area, anyone could enter the zone and see your airship without having to be in a guild and specifically floating around in the sky zone just to see other guild airships.

Devata.6589:

Oow no I would not think you would have the different modes in the same map. You see there will be multiple instances of the sky-maps anyway. (and what you see from the ground would only be one of them.. what ever sky-map that ground map get’s linked to).

But that also means you could decide if you would want to go to a PvP or WvW, or GvG or PvE sky-map and the stuff to do there would be depending on that.

So now, that’s a bare minimum of at least four different sky map zones, all the size of the entirety of Tyria, with possibly dozens or hundreds of guilds and their custom airships all mingling around together? I’m sorry, but that just sounds like an incredible strain on resources to me. Considering how small the zones have to be now before being split, and the limited player population allowed in them, I just don’t see this being feasible at all. :-/ I understand Jon/Chris saying go for the stars, but even in an ideal situation this seems impossible to me, unless I’m missing something huge here.

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

At the bottom (so looking from the ground) there is the guild-emblem.
So this is what you would always see from the ground and for the most basic guild-hall it would be everything you would see from the ground. When building (basically around this basic part) you can make any shape you want. From the ground you would see that shape (and the colors). You would not see the full model.

From the distance that you’re talking about, a guild ship would have to be absolutely MASSIVE to distinguish a guild emblem from the ground, without it appearing as just a dot in the sky. I think your mental sense of scale here is a bit off.

As I said, I’d rather just have the guild airship docked in the zone itself, close enough that you can actually see the the details and all of the customizations you’ve made, and where you can actually show off your guild hall/ship to anybody — as this would be an open-world area, anyone could enter the zone and see your airship without having to be in a guild and specifically floating around in the sky zone just to see other guild airships.

Well guild-halls are pretty big yeah. Here an image just to get the idea of the size you might see from the ground and how the emblem would be distinguishable.

[img]http://oi62.tinypic.com/24l27hh.jpg[/img]
(just for the record, this image is just to show the size, It would all look a litter better in the game itself)

Well the sky-map is an open world map and maybe the two could mix together. Docking in a normal map.

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

Oow no I would not think you would have the different modes in the same map. You see there will be multiple instances of the sky-maps anyway. (and what you see from the ground would only be one of them.. what ever sky-map that ground map get’s linked to).

But that also means you could decide if you would want to go to a PvP or WvW, or GvG or PvE sky-map and the stuff to do there would be depending on that.

So now, that’s a bare minimum of at least four different sky map zones, all the size of the entirety of Tyria, with possibly dozens or hundreds of guilds and their custom airships all mingling around together? I’m sorry, but that just sounds like an incredible strain on resources to me. Considering how small the zones have to be now before being split, and the limited player population allowed in them, I just don’t see this being feasible at all. :-/ I understand Jon/Chris saying go for the stars, but even in an ideal situation this seems impossible to me, unless I’m missing something huge here.

Uhhm you did see it feasibly before but now with multiple instances (what was always the idea) not anymore. You do understand that multiple instances mean less stress per instance? Not more.

I do not know what is limiting the map size. It’s something I talked about before. But if it’s the stuff in it then don’t forget the sky-map does not have a lot of things in it. Those dozens or hundreds of guilds and the events would be all in it. And information from players only has to be send to you when they are near you (network bubble). So also that should be very doable. But the big question here is, what is limiting map-size in GW2. Only if I you know that you know if this would be a problem and how you would be able to solve it.

Devata.6589:

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

At the bottom (so looking from the ground) there is the guild-emblem.
So this is what you would always see from the ground and for the most basic guild-hall it would be everything you would see from the ground. When building (basically around this basic part) you can make any shape you want. From the ground you would see that shape (and the colors). You would not see the full model.

From the distance that you’re talking about, a guild ship would have to be absolutely MASSIVE to distinguish a guild emblem from the ground, without it appearing as just a dot in the sky. I think your mental sense of scale here is a bit off.

As I said, I’d rather just have the guild airship docked in the zone itself, close enough that you can actually see the the details and all of the customizations you’ve made, and where you can actually show off your guild hall/ship to anybody — as this would be an open-world area, anyone could enter the zone and see your airship without having to be in a guild and specifically floating around in the sky zone just to see other guild airships.

Well guild-halls are pretty big yeah. Here an image just to get the idea of the size you might see from the ground and how the emblem would be distinguishable.

[img]http://oi62.tinypic.com/24l27hh.jpg[/img]
(just for the record, this image is just to show the size, It would all look a litter better in the game itself)

Well the sky-map is an open world map and maybe the two could mix together. Docking in a normal map.

Well, the pic you have from “what it would look like from the ground” doesn’t mean much without comparable scale. Do you have an image of how big you would expect the guild hall airship itself to be?

As for what’s limiting the network, you can’t use “network bubble” as a way around things — you have to construct the servers with the assumption that everyone in the instance could potentially be in the exact same spot at the exact same time. Because it will happen at some point, and if your server isn’t capable of supporting that even under limited load, you’re going to have issues.

My assumption is that reason right there is why there is a cap of players allowed in any particular instance at a time. I don’t think it’s possible to have more than a few guilds worth of people on a map at any given time. Heck, maybe even not that many if the guilds in question have a full 250 roster.

We can start w 1gh location per region: 1 for all maguuma, kryta, shiverpeak etc.. Entrance is like door next to gate, this one that change color when depend on who capture it. So when we see something like this in living world, we go in and there is someone who say that is exemplar of gh that we can deploy in the Mist for you, he show also list of npcs that you can hire, and you can see where they will stand (cursor on vendor and he appear as hologram is his desire location). They are vendors and during GvG they guard, when we hire them, we can choose race (dredges all the way, no blind). They do nothing more than these two points.
How would GvG work? you can have one GvG map, with A and B locations, and there you increase ghs of guilds that participate it can be one time copy or sth like that of our gh (we will pretend that gh fly and attach sometimes to GvG map, but in reality it will be only copy). Briefing to gh? 2 ways: through quest system (gw1 time limited invite) or if you advetise free enter to your gh in lfg system and as long advertise and as long not full gh map, all can teleport if click specific button. So we need new tab in G, Brief and there you have invite ………… (place to increase name) and adveritse/cancel advertise – ofc also new tab in lfg system Gh Guest, you see there who offer entrance, click and you teleport.
———————————————————————
Now something not about topic, but aftert word airship I came up with one thought: I wanna enter one of the airships that we see in Cursed Shore, feel hights of being in sky, expose fact that this airship is flying (not scenery around move, or only wind path after our machine, it can make loops but I wanna to see it flying and being on board) + sometimes z’champion that fly closer to face-welcome us
——————————————————————
If gh as airship, airship must fly – not being hang up above us for 99,99% or even more of his time ^^

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

At the bottom (so looking from the ground) there is the guild-emblem.
So this is what you would always see from the ground and for the most basic guild-hall it would be everything you would see from the ground. When building (basically around this basic part) you can make any shape you want. From the ground you would see that shape (and the colors). You would not see the full model.

From the distance that you’re talking about, a guild ship would have to be absolutely MASSIVE to distinguish a guild emblem from the ground, without it appearing as just a dot in the sky. I think your mental sense of scale here is a bit off.

As I said, I’d rather just have the guild airship docked in the zone itself, close enough that you can actually see the the details and all of the customizations you’ve made, and where you can actually show off your guild hall/ship to anybody — as this would be an open-world area, anyone could enter the zone and see your airship without having to be in a guild and specifically floating around in the sky zone just to see other guild airships.

Well guild-halls are pretty big yeah. Here an image just to get the idea of the size you might see from the ground and how the emblem would be distinguishable.

[img]http://oi62.tinypic.com/24l27hh.jpg[/img]
(just for the record, this image is just to show the size, It would all look a litter better in the game itself)

Well the sky-map is an open world map and maybe the two could mix together. Docking in a normal map.

Well, the pic you have from “what it would look like from the ground” doesn’t mean much without comparable scale. Do you have an image of how big you would expect the guild hall airship itself to be?

As for what’s limiting the network, you can’t use “network bubble” as a way around things — you have to construct the servers with the assumption that everyone in the instance could potentially be in the exact same spot at the exact same time. Because it will happen at some point, and if your server isn’t capable of supporting that even under limited load, you’re going to have issues.

My assumption is that reason right there is why there is a cap of players allowed in any particular instance at a time. I don’t think it’s possible to have more than a few guilds worth of people on a map at any given time. Heck, maybe even not that many if the guilds in question have a full 250 roster.

Yes then you are going to have lag issues (just as you now have if zergs collide in WvW). Thats something you can never completely get rid of but it’s good enough for most games out there so why not for GW2. I really think map-size limit has to do with something else. Not because they are afraid to many people would end up in the same place. Maybe they do not have a network buble at all, or more likely the stuff going on in one map (events, NPC, mobs and so on) needs to be controlled by one server, it can not be split up. Now in that case the sky-map might be possible anyway because there is much less of that.

What do people see as the benefits of instanced?

Instanced guild halls would bring exclusivity to members. Celebrations and events could happen without outside grievance. Meetings can be held in relative tranquility.

What do you see as the benefits of open world guild halls?

The chance to share your greatness with everyone. Let all who pass marvel at this hall of wonders! Open world halls can be used a destination point for large public gatherings. They can also serve as a staging ground for PvE events.

How could we get the benefits of instanced guild halls in a system of open world guild halls?

Provide guild leaders a switch to toggle open/closed – private/public access. A good example are Private Islands in Second Life. Region owners are given tools to allow public access, or limit access to groups. In GW2’s case, the access can be limited to members wearing the proper guild tag.[/i]

How could we get the benefits of open world guild halls in a system where guild halls are instanced?

See answer to previous question .

An instanced guild hall is the easy of the two options, relatively speaking. Like the halls in GW1, formatting is pre-determined. Leaders can decide which NPC’s to purchase for use. However, in keeping line with the persistent atmosphere an open world hall is the better option. Access to the hall can be programmed into the door. For instance, if a guild is holding a members only meeting the door would grant access to members wearing the guild tag, but the hall itself would still be visible from the outside.

GvG as airship battles? Well, then. Color me intrigued.

inb4 jetpacks & adding aerial combat to ground and underwater

Gulesave.5073:

GvG as airship battles? Well, then. Color me intrigued.

inb4 jetpacks & adding aerial combat to ground and underwater

Well it could be one of the GvG modes. But GvG is the next subject.

Gulesave.5073:

GvG as airship battles? Well, then. Color me intrigued.

Some of us like a little bit of Skies Of Arcadia in our MMO’s.

Vix.6730:

What do people see as the benefits of instanced?

Instanced guild halls would bring exclusivity to members. Celebrations and events could happen without outside grievance. Meetings can be held in relative tranquility.

Not to tackle you personally but to me most of those negatives seem technical difficulties. So I figured I would use this as an example.

If you can build a guild-hall the way you want you can make it as closed as you want. Doors (like in WvW) would only let guild-members in and then add the function to keep chat inside, and map-chat outside and you would have your exclusivity also with open world guild-halls, not?

daft inquisitor.1605:

I was thinking about that myself. I just personally don’t see the merit of the “sky map” for travel. I mean, what purpose would it have?

I could see it being a warzone for GvG battles, yeah, but at the same time, I couldn’t imagine that would span the breadth of all of Tyria like was suggested. This is just my personal opinion of course. I’m not saying there’s no merit to it whatsoever, I just don’t see it myself.

From my perspective on this — where is there to travel? It’s just a bunch of open air and clouds, and some other guild ships. That’s not exciting to me. The only noticable feature would be the terrain below us, but even then, it would pretty much just be the world map, which is precisely as interesting to me as opening the “M” menu on a character. There just isn’t anything worth seeing there.

So, what’s the purpose of it? What can you do on this air map that you can’t do elsewhere, and why? That’s what a lot of the Guild Hall discussion has boiled down to, so I think it’s a good question.

When I first envisioned sky maps I think my main objective was a home for air ships because there wasn’t enough real estate to tether them all, which is the same problem land based guild halls have.

This is the airship over Vigil Keep. It gives a good scale comparison. With potentially hundreds of guilds with guild halls, if they were all tethered around the edges of maps it would get quite crowded. It gets worse if you increase the size to something like Zephyr Sanctum for larger guild halls.

Just having a home for an airship to sit in seemed a little dull so I proposed it move on a semi randomized route over Tyria. Other ideas have been tossed about to fill the void of “what to do in an sky map”.

While the view from it may be similar to the world map, I’d hope they put more care into it. We’ve all seen what the art department can do when they want to make something look good. I think it’d look much better than just the world map. But you’re right, it’s a novelty. Good for an hour or two of fun then glossed over by the majority of players and certainly not everyone will be interested in the views.

I think the sky map has more potential than just tethering, and I think both ideas are better than either/or. I also agree with you that the idea still needs work. And I actually appreciate that you’re trying to hash it out. Great features take a lot of work to get right.

Gulesave.5073:

GvG as airship battles? Well, then. Color me intrigued.

inb4 jetpacks & adding aerial combat to ground and underwater

Too late, aerial combat was brought up pages ago.

Also, everything is better with jetpacks. Especially with bobblehead jetpacks.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

daft inquisitor.1605:

Devata.6589:

Oow no I would not think you would have the different modes in the same map. You see there will be multiple instances of the sky-maps anyway. (and what you see from the ground would only be one of them.. what ever sky-map that ground map get’s linked to).

But that also means you could decide if you would want to go to a PvP or WvW, or GvG or PvE sky-map and the stuff to do there would be depending on that.

So now, that’s a bare minimum of at least four different sky map zones, all the size of the entirety of Tyria, with possibly dozens or hundreds of guilds and their custom airships all mingling around together? I’m sorry, but that just sounds like an incredible strain on resources to me. Considering how small the zones have to be now before being split, and the limited player population allowed in them, I just don’t see this being feasible at all. :-/ I understand Jon/Chris saying go for the stars, but even in an ideal situation this seems impossible to me, unless I’m missing something huge here.

I think if there was a GvG or WvW element to sky maps then it would need to be over those maps. The sky maps over PvE maps should be PvE. Perhaps a feature to port your guildhall to EBG for WvW/GvG fights?

That might make for some intense fights. Two zergs fighting over SMC while a couple guild Airships take shots at each other overhead? Might be kinda cool to see.

It would be more feasible to just have some random airships fly across the sky, (high above, in simplified low-res). Making them match specific guild ships allegedly flying across at that time seems like a lot of unnecessary work when players won’t be able to tell the difference.

Airships don’t even have to be the standard, here. They could just as well be in addition to grounded and even underwater bases, depending on what we plan to do with them. Airships aren’t everybody’s cup of tea.

Devata.6589:

Vix.6730:

What do people see as the benefits of instanced?

Instanced guild halls would bring exclusivity to members. Celebrations and events could happen without outside grievance. Meetings can be held in relative tranquility.

Not to tackle you personally but to me most of those negatives seem technical difficulties. So I figured I would use this as an example.

If you can build a guild-hall the way you want you can make it as closed as you want. Doors (like in WvW) would only let guild-members in and then add the function to keep chat inside, and map-chat outside and you would have your exclusivity also with open world guild-halls, not?

Right. My first answer was to address the sole benefit of instanced guild halls. Further down I mention an open world guild hall as being the nicer of the two options and offer the idea of a swinging door/access gate. My day job allows me to configure region access tools among other tasks which include avatars, voice, chat and media within parcels who sit alongside other parcels. The same basic theories could be applied here. In fact I recommend whoever’s representing Anet (and reading this) to look into how Second Life allows private island owners to control their regions as a guideline for open world hall configuration tools. They are practical in use.

Torsailr.8456:

Gulesave.5073:

GvG as airship battles? Well, then. Color me intrigued.

inb4 jetpacks & adding aerial combat to ground and underwater

Too late, aerial combat was brought up pages ago.

Also, everything is better with jetpacks. Especially with bobblehead jetpacks.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And not to forget jet-packs have been in the game for over 1,5 year now. Not that I really envisioned jet-pack usage (yet I was not sure how members would jump form one ship to the other.. would they have to be touching each other? You know maybe those jet-packs can come in handy after all) but it is a nice little fact to throw in here

Gulesave.5073:

It would be more feasible to just have some random airships fly across the sky, (high above, in simplified low-res). Making them match specific guild ships allegedly flying across at that time seems like a lot of unnecessary work when players won’t be able to tell the difference.

Airships don’t even have to be the standard, here. They could just as well be in addition to grounded and even underwater bases, depending on what we plan to do with them. Airships aren’t everybody’s cup of tea.

That could be a way to make it easier but it would also be a little dull don’t you think? Guild-member on the ground in guild-chat.. Heey guys I see you over Cursed Shore, uhhm, we are hovering somewhere above Mount Maelstrom. I think the other option would just be nicer. And you would be able to tell the difference while with your solution you would indeed have a better vision of them. And when mixing it in with the ability to indeed dock in a map you would still have the visible effect from close by.

Lots of good ideas, I just want to add:

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes please.

Iason Evan.3806:

As a side note Jon, the people who are really going to spend time with this are the same type of people that Carbine totally took for granted when they were designing WildStar. They were so rigidly clinging to the raid system in that game that they lost sight of the people that just wanted to level to 14 and then play house. The bulk of the design should be around them. Why? Because the dude(me) that gets a “Fractal Guild Hall Drop” will put it in the hall and then just head straight back into the Fractals. Holly Homemaker will spend hours finding the perfect spot to place that item. That’s who it should be for.

If you are going to actually design a guild hall system, do it for the Holly Homemakers. Designing an open world guild hall system for people like me that spend 90% of our time in combat wastes what the guild hall is aesthetically. Design it for the people that want to spend 90% of their time in the guild hall.

Take that idea you had about guilds controlling points out of the guild hall system if it’s open world. Ultimately the Guild Hall has nothing to do with control points.

I really want to echo this. Build Guild Halls for the people that want Guild Halls. Other systems should not be part of the Guild Hall system. Guild Halls should NOT become a barrier to playing other parts of the game! You can, perhaps, merge the two somewhat, but they should not be tied together at the basic level. People should not be forced to build a Guild Hall just to play GvG or control points or whatever else you come up with. The only reason someone should feel that they need to build a Guild Hall is because they want a Guild Hall.

In my opinion, content should be designed for everyone, not just those who “you think will be potentially interested on it”, at least speaking of MMOs.

When you do that, later, you suffer from splitting your playerbase, specially when the game ages and you need to shift populations toward certain game types. Maybe Holly Homemakers should be taken into consideration when making the core of the system, but the guy that only plays fractals, will actually never try anything else, because the content will be designed to be “not for him”.

Hmm.. CDI for GUILD HALLS…. when is the expected release date? How long does Anet usually take for this?

Simon.3106:

Hmm.. CDI for GUILD HALLS…. when is the expected release date? How long does Anet usually take for this?

Under their current policy Anet will never give an ETA for release unless it’s very near completion. That said, who knows? Your guess is as good as everyone else.

I think we need the basics like we had in Guild Wars. some merchants a couple bankers, some portals and a few different maps to choose from for our guild instance. maybe 10 healthy options/maps. *An arena* one that can be ran into like the wilds and while in the area it’s pvp free for all but it should be within the map rather than having to load to it. You could also make it auto scale all players to 80 upon zoning in.

With the Airship and the one in Divinity’s any other options like crafting or town ports needs to be either left out altogether or if integrated anyone that had bought those permanent passes should get a refund. as they should be able to port straight to their GH from the guild window.

The GH should also be free from timed kicks. Sometimes we just want to /dance*.

I’m also interested in #6 on Vanive.3804 ’s post

Simon.3106:

Hmm.. CDI for GUILD HALLS…. when is the expected release date? How long does Anet usually take for this?

At least 6 months out. If they come anywhere close to implementing some of the larger ideas here then more likely 12-18 months. But that is my personal estimate. I have no inside knowledge of Anet’s development schedule or manpower.