Guild Wars 2

Arewn.2368:

I was wondering what people think of the idea of Group Combat State
Basically, while you’re in the raid, you’re whole group is put “in combat” as soon as any one member gets in combat. This could be raid wide, or just party wide.

This would increase the value of healing by getting rid of questionable practices such as dropping combat to heal, and things like dead allies waypoint without fully reseting the boss.

I’ll also put forth the idea of turning off out-of-combat auto healing while inside the raid instance.

I’m confused by the second suggestion? You already can’t waypoint if any of your group is in combat. If you mean the practice of the party dropping out of combat as a whole for a few seconds then re-engaging before the health regens.
Maybe consider a mystical barrier preventing re-entry until either everyone is dead or the boss is killed (I believe this is the counter used by FFXIV in all boss fights.)?

The last suggestion I’ve mixed feelings about, on the plus side if you get re-engaged in combat before you’ve had a chance for cooldowns to end it adds extra risk. On the negative side, if you’ve just cleared the room it’s just an exercise in frustration waiting for your cooldowns to end so everyone can heal up.

Conski Deshan.2057:

I’ll be honest, as selfish as it is , I’d like there to be nothing new for a farmer or gem traders in Raids. They’re already the two most rewarded (over rewarded) groups due to the shear amount of tradeable items. Plus removing them from the equation on this content puts top players back on track for feeling their time is valued without them having to compete against those two groups for shear number of unlocks.

So my ideal situation would be only T6’s, Ectos, Unids, giants eyes , or other typical high value standard items as the currency generation from raids.
I’ll compromise on some raid mats being tradeable as long as (as you suggested) There is a clear set of items obtained purely and solely by raiding (the vendor at the end which is achievement locked and can only be interacted with if you personally have killed every boss in the raid).

I agree, and it diminishes the prestige if you can just buy everything.
A set of tradeable rare-drop items, in addition to player bound rewards, would be okay.

While I have given feedback that more or less aligns with “traditional” raids in this thread, I want to make one thing perfectly clear.

I think traditional raids are a very VERY bad idea for GW2.

The two Lions Arch events and the Marionette were the best events in GW2 and the best blueprint for a raid-like activity. While both had their flaws, they were fun an inclusive. Marionette did have a higher level of skill and listening to explanations if you wanted to win, but that’s fine. LA was good at letting even solo players help out by doing small events and advancing the reward counter.

Also, in both cases there was a bigger reward at the end if you did well, but enough rewards before then that even failure didn’t feel like a total waste of time. More to the point, though, they were FUN. (Subjective, I know.)

Traditional raids and traditional raid rewards have no place in this game. You should play games, not work at them.

(Unless you’re a dev. If you are, then work.)

Conski Deshan.2057:

I’m confused by the second suggestion? You already can’t waypoint if any of your group is in combat. If you mean the practice of the party dropping out of combat as a whole for a few seconds then re-engaging before the health regens.
Maybe consider a mystical barrier preventing re-entry until either everyone is dead or the boss is killed (I believe this is the counter used by FFXIV in all boss fights.)?

The last suggestion I’ve mixed feelings about, on the plus side if you get re-engaged in combat before you’ve had a chance for cooldowns to end it adds extra risk. On the negative side, if you’ve just cleared the room it’s just an exercise in frustration waiting for your cooldowns to end so everyone can heal up.

Yea, that’s what I meant. I’ve been in situations where me or a group member will drop combat against a boss for a few seconds so that the rest of the party can waypoint to rez. Typically this happens when all but one or two people are dead. Alternatively, an individual in the group will drop combat so that they can go rez a single dead ally faster.

With regards to healing, that’s a risk I was thinking of as well. If in practice disabling out-of-combat healing just makes you stop and wait constantly to heal between fights, then it’s nothing more then a nuisance.
My hope is that it would make healing skills (particularly group healing) more valuable, and add an element of attrition to the over all experience.

No Raid should be more profitable than any other area of the game. One or two skins, maybe, whether they can be traded or not. If people want new challenging content then they should be happy with the challenge and the new content, otherwise, please don’t request it.

Any Raids put in game should not even have a chance at pulling people from other game modes for longer than a few weeks.

The competitive game play is what draws in large numbers of players and widespread attention. Adding in a few more NPC’s to kill does not. We all have to be considerate of and support Anet in keeping the competitive game play healthy for the sake of the whole game and community.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Naetell.3815:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Evening All,

Relics of Orr podcast about the CDI below:

http://www.relicsoforr.com/?p=3403

‘In this special episode we chat with guest host Soren of Gaiscíoch about the Raiding CDI and how Guild Wars 2 could create unique raids.’

Chris

P.S: Thanks Relics of Orr and Soren for your feedback.

Nice. Thanks for the link.

It is an excellent discussion with some really insightful brainstorming and design concepts.

Chris

Very good podcast. Very interesting ideas. As a casual player I’m actually excited for raids.

+1

This got pretty long in the end 800+ words sadly, but cant keep it under 200-300. This post is just about joining and entering the raid. When we get future along the CDI or move onto the next part of raid CDI I will post my responses to rewards, raid structure, mechanics and all the good stuff which will be based on this first post.
Enjoy, and as always! Pm for clarification.

Proposal Overview
• To use and improve already ingame systems.

Goal of Proposal
• Improving the commander system/standard 5-man group function not only for Raiding but for organizing WvW, World bosses and more.
• Letting hardcore experience hard content with story as well as the casuals in less hard encounters

Proposal Functionality
Size of the raid
As others in this thread have expressed, raiding should be instanced and designed for a fixed group of players, here my suggestion is
• 10 man (which will be able to scale to 15) (numbers can change)
• 25 (which will be able to scale to 30)(numbers can change)
The reasons for the +5 scaling is, you are most likely able to find 10 people willing to spend some time in a raid, either from your guild or as a pug, and still being able to bring 5 more people if you happen to be more than 10 up to 15, on the other hand if you are more than 15 ready for a raid night you are very likely able to fill a roster of at least 25 people up to 30. (Here I will argue against myself that maybe 20-25 is better)

Forming the groupe
Forming the group uses the already ingame system of commander to be able to make the groupe (People interested in doing raids will most likely know/or have a person in the guild with a tag) the commander and the people of the squad will have a few option available to them.
• Show in a new window all the members of the squad divided into (2 groups of 5for 10-man version up to 3 groups of 5 man. And for 25 man, 5 groups of 5 man up to 6 groups of 5 man) this is shown in the window as simple party UI with the max amount of groups being (max number of people in a squad/5). The squad leader is able to move people around the groups to better manage everything (example, a group for condi, group for melee and more). This will management will only be available if the squad option is set to private, else it will work as it does now where people can join and the squad and open the squad window and see which group inside the squad you belong to, even if you run with your own group outside the squad system.
• And of course a leave button for members of the squad and for the squad leader an option to kick or add and make squad public or make squad private and only allow people he invites into the squad (which will mean that if you want to join a private squad you cannot be in a group because the commander decides which group you belong to)

Entering the raid and modes
The entrance to the raid will show options in the same way as dungeons do. You will be seeing
• Enter “tourist mode” 10-15 man story mode
• Enter 10-15 man mode
• Enter 25-30 man mode
These different modes have different boss mechanics and scaling. First of is the story mode: It is the same dungeon as the other two modes BUT! This mode is made easy so that even a pug group can complete the bosses and get some loot. The bosses base mechanic will only be a part of this mode and the health and damage should not be so high that they cannot complete it. So all the extra mechanics/health increase/damage increase that make the fight harder will be in 10-15 and 25-30. This makes it so casuals that want to have a go at the raid can at least get though it and experience the story while still getting some loot.

Second is the 10-15 man mode: Everything is the same as above except for more mechanics/health/damage to the bosses. Rewards will be better (and more interesting, here me out later :b) the encounters have to be different in some way and a little longer.

Third is 25-30: Again everything as in 10-15 just more mechanics maybe more health/damage, and again, better/different loot from 10-15.

(I have ideas on how to make extra boss mechanics as event(Will require some explaining later), flow of the different raids, how to keep track of resets via achievement system, distributing rewards via achievements and standard boss chests , and the rewards themselves already written down, and will post later when we get to that CDI)

Associated Risks
• Not being able to find a person with the commander tag to start the raid (But I doubt it since so many have commander tag but rarely uses it)
• The commander options and squad window being to confusion for new people to this system to understand
• Cluttering the achievement panels with a lot of stuff I will later be posting about

In that case, I’d like C to be: Get rewards while doing my job, so I can make money and play the game at the same time.

Yeah, which is kind of the point, this is a game, if you aren’t having fun then the devs have done something wrong. If you’re playing the game, you should be doing the activities you enjoy, not the activities that are a chore to you but that offer the loot you’re looking for.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
In my opinion and experience, having no unique rewards in areas like this partially devaluates the content.
Luckily for me, it seems most people here share my point of view on this particular matter.

And a certain recent sci-fi MMO crashed against the reef of believing that people in raid-oriented threads were representative of their larger game population. I would expect most people in this thread to be all for raids getting whatever raiders want and forget about everyone else, but don’t expect that the larger community to be happy with that outcome if it happens.

But Prestige is directly lined to the inability for it to be acquired by alternative means or traded. The entire value is on the basis that the person MUST have completed the content themselves and that the content is an impressive feat to complete.

Prestige should not be attached to gear. Gear should be about style and widely available. If you like under the delusion that other players are impressed by what you do, and care what gear you equip, then Titles are good enough to establish that. There should not be skins that only “the cool kids” can get.

Ohoni.6057:

And a certain recent sci-fi MMO crashed against the reef of believing that people in raid-oriented threads were representative of their larger game population. I would expect most people in this thread to be all for raids getting whatever raiders want and forget about everyone else, but don’t expect that the larger community to be happy with that outcome if it happens.

if you have something important to say and give design examples you can do so in this thread instead of trying to bring up unnecessary discussions.

and in a certain recent sci-fi MMO people were completely happy with the raiding content but not with the design decisions outside of raids. using wrong information to prove a point is not going to help you or anyone else.

Ohoni.6057:

There should not be skins that only “the cool kids” can get.

i called the FIFA today and told them its an insolence that better soccer players than myself can win special rewards such as money and trophies for winning the world championship.
they work harder than me, play better and are more talented, but they dont deserve anything that i cannot win in my village soccer tournaments.

and in a certain recent sci-fi MMO people were completely happy with the raiding content but not with the design decisions outside of raids. using wrong information to prove a point is not going to help you or anyone else.

My point there was that they focused on raids, not giving enough focus to the other elements of the game, and it turned out that the “raids are important” crowd were not enough to keep the game functional. It’s ok for ANet to add raids to GW2, but they need to do so with the understanding that it’s only a very minor element of the game as a whole, so they can’t lock cool unique stuff behind it and out of the hands of players who have no interest in raiding at all.

Ohoni.6057:

and it turned out that the “raids are important” crowd were not enough to keep the game functional.

the game is still functional. you are using wrong information once again.

Ohoni.6057:

so they can’t lock cool unique stuff behind it and out of the hands of players who have no interest in raiding at all.

they can. they can the same way they lock unique stuff behind pvp out of the hands of players who have no interest in pvp at all.

as long as the rewards dont make your character better stat wise, the content and rewards are optional (you dont need it to play and enjoy the game) and therefore you wont find any argument that speaks against unique visual rewards.

15 man is good im more for 20 but if u like to be more easy to team up then keep it to 15 .
Also how about gear only for raids so we can have progresion PLS do this i wanna have carrot on a stick for long time in this game skins are not my thing and iv lost to many friends in the skin wars thank you in advance .
also the raiding gear will not work in pve/pvp/wvw only in raids so you can keep it balanced and we can have fun to make the game cooler and you can add some reputation grind like in eye of the north titles will make some skills stronger you take less dmg u deal more dmg etc etc !!

I would love having to farm reputation.That is something that i really miss.

Arewn.2368:

Conski Deshan.2057:

Arewn.2368:

Mizenhauer.6713:

I think a mix of mobs/bosses is best. Mobile enemies would be nice for encouraging cc and more mobile friendly play (ranged). Structural enemies/bosses defeat the purpose of precision and ferocity. Slow chunkers can be easily stacked up on and taken down. As long as there’s variety, it’s more interesting. I guess nobody liked them, but I really liked the toxic mobs. Downed states may be another interesting thing. Not that I’d love being finished by a monster, but what if certain enemies could resurrect others? Interrupt the rez?!

Good point on downed state.
I think it would be really annoying if every mob in the raid entered downstate, but if they add a few here and there i think it can really add to the experience.
Maybe something to the effect of a “commander mob” that is present in most packs of mobs, and it enters a downstate and can potentially be rez’d by the other mobs.

I did suggest in one of my earlier mechanic posts that mobs be given the ability to
-dodge
-downed state
-finish us
In raids to add an extra level of tension to the fights, it means you have to be that bit more careful.

They’d have to be careful with giving enemies the ability to stomp us. A mob taking the time to stomp a player is almost akin to the mob being CC’ed, since it can’t take other actions for the duration. For that reason, I feel like it could be exploited.
Aside from that though, it would help mix things up if some mobs stomped instead of attacking downed players.

Wasn’t the Toxic Alliance given the “downed state”, come to think of it? And mobs later on gained “Evades” and actually do dodge . . . poorly, but they dodge. (I know they do because I’ve seen it done sometimes.)

I think also the Toxic Alliance would finish but I don’t recall clearly.

So, it’s been done but nobody does Toxic Alliance events because they’re pretty difficult for just an event reward.

moiraine.2753:

I would love having to farm reputation.That is something that i really miss.

I am having Mistmoore Castle flashbacks now, as well as Highhold Keep farm flashbacks. I need more booze before I continue. . . so I can block Guild Wars: Factions from entering my memory also…

Faction/Reputation “farm/grind” is something which will inevitably be pointed to as another example of grind (rather than fun) being added to the game. I really dislike this system as a means of handling things because it is rather grindy to deal with. It was in Guild Wars 1, but I’d put a pin in that as one thing not to carry over.

Instead, how about the idea which has been floated as a vendor at the end of a raid, or at certain parts of a raid offering tiered rewards. Sort of llike Dry Top vendors – you can see what items are purchasable if you proceed, and know exactly what you need so you can tell if you just want to call it a day after the First Leg or push as far as you can.

You know why people liked to call Obsidian Armor a status symbol to look for? You had to finish one section of the Fissure of Woe (roughly a third of the whole area) to spawn the armorsmith who would make it from super-rare materials. You had to at least be in a group which got to finish that far – while it was possible to be carried that far, you also needed to have the materials and cash on hand. It was possible but unlikely someone could get to this point without earning it. Likewise, Slaver’s Exile had special weapons available for those who beat EOTN . . . sure you could get run there but that was unlikely to get you the materials. Similarly, you had to reopen Lion’s Arch Keep to get access to most of the War in Kryta content which permitted you to earn Oppressor Weapons (another set for your Hall).

Let’s take a meticulous look at how these worked and why it was used. It pretty much guaranteed a person would have to play through content before getting to these prestigious objects. This is what we should look at, as it . . . whatever you may think of it . . . was one part of the heart of Guild Wars 1. It was the endgame goal for many people to get Obsidian Armor, because of how much it required.

It almost translates into the Legendary struggle, only it relies . . . slightly less . . . on RNGeesus. Here’s where we should take inspiration from, then, for what Raid Rewards might look like.

Here I talked about some types of Raids I’d like to see, so that for every taste there is something:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/page/8#post4525967

Now I’ll write about Rewards:

• Fractal Explorer Rank

This is part of the *H*eroic *F*ractal-*R*aid System (HF-RS)
In the HF-RS, that will be unlocked, once a Player reaches HF-Rank 10 of 1000 you gain “Fractal Knowledge” whenever you successfully fulfill a Fractal Run or later once unlocked also a HFR-Run.
Based on which kind of Fractals and which Level you did, will influence the End Amount of Fractal Knowledge that you will gain.
Heroic Fractals can be entered from the same Fractal Lobby Instance, as like normal Fractals, just with the difference, that the players have to talk first with Dessa in the Lab to decide, how she should configurate the Teleporter, if for normal Fractals, or for Heroic Fractals, also with the difference, that Heroic Fractals aren’t coming by random. Players will be able to decide into which Heroic Fractal they want to go, thats another difference from just the normal Fractals.

So higher you raise in the Fractal Explorer Rank, so harder does it become to reach the next Rank as the required amounts of points rise potentially higher each time, basically like the Luck Bar which takes also each time longer to fill up with every next % of MF.

This will be the rewards from the Fractal Explorer Ranks

Between non specific Ranks, the rewards will be always by random either:

- Random amount of T1,2 or 3 Mist Essences
- 100-200 Fractal Relics
- Random amount of random T5 or T6 Materials
- Karma Bags and 1 Black Lion Key
- Gold Bags and a Legendary Luck Essence
- An Item to Unlock a new Fractals Collection requiring of you to collect all kinds of Fractal Items (Essences, Relics, Tonic, Armors, Mist Stone, Various Infusions, Gift of Ascension, Fractal Capacitor and its Ascended Version)

These will be rank specific Rewards:

10: Unlock Heroic Fractals
25: Get a Miniature Jungle Skelk
50: Title: Fractal Explorer
100: Fractal Helm/Hood/Cap
150: Fractal Pauldrons/Scarf/Epaulets
200: Fractal Greaves/Boots/Shoes
250: Fractal Armor/Guise/Vest
300: Fractal Legguards/Leggins/Breeches
350: Miniature Thaumanova Anomaly
400: Title: Master of the Flux Matrix
500: Chest with an Ascended Armor Piece of Choice
600: Chest with an Ascended Weapon of Choice
700: Chest with a Gift of Choice
800: Chest with an Ascended Weapon of Choice
900: Chest with a Gift of Choice, Endless Fractal Tonic
1000: Chest with a Gift of Choice, Chest with an Ascended Armor of Choice, Title: Refracturer of Lost Wisdom

the game is still functional. you are using wrong information once again.

Functional currently? Perhaps, in a sense. Functional this time next year? Unlikely. But that’s beside the point of this game entirely.

they can. they can the same way they lock unique stuff behind pvp out of the hands of players who have no interest in pvp at all.

The only things currently locked behind PvP are a flaming backpiece and some fairly ugly armor. Even so, I would push to have those opened up through PvE means if I cared at all about getting either, and would support the cause of anyone else who did want to unlock them via PvP. There should be plenty of means to unlock any types of skins in the game, so that the most players can find some activity to unlock them which they find enjoyable. The fewer players “grinding” at something they do not enjoy, the better it is for ANet. Again, just because GW2 currently does something does not mean that it’s automatically the right thing to be doing or that they should not change it where possible.

as long as the rewards dont make your character better stat wise, the content and rewards are optional

That’s entirely your opinion. Personally, I would much prefer to have a set of armor that I think looks cool than to have a set that has 5% higher stats than what I’ve currently got. Cosmetic improvements are no less “must have” than stat improvements.

So, it’s been done but nobody does Toxic Alliance events because they’re pretty difficult for just an event reward.

I made a suggestion a while back that they should give more enemies downed states, but not the full ones that players get, in that you should be able to stomp them down without having to channel it, or dps them down faster than Toxic Alliance. This would give players more ways to show off finishers in PvE and offer an interesting mechanic.

*What kinds of Heroic Fractals for Raids should/could it give?

• Ghosts of Ascalon > Raid as Riona Grady, Ember Doomforge, Gullik Oddson, Kranxx and Dougal Keane through the lands of Ascalon to get the legendary Claw of Khan-Ur, fighting against tons of Ghosts of Ascalon in an alternate reality of the past in this Heroic Fractal

• Destiny’s Edge > Raid as the Members of Destiny’s Edge (Rytlock, Logan, Eir, Zojja, Caithe) and fight either together in the Collosseum endless of Rounds fighting against countless waves of enemies trying to get to the End Round of the Tournament, or battle in an alternate reality against Kralkatorrik with the Help of Glint, fightign off lots of branded Minions, until the Timer runs out and the Raid ends with Snaff’s Death and a Retreat.

• Reapers of Death > Fight alongside Grenth against Dhuum as five of the seven Reapers of Death in the Underworld and free the Realms there of Dhuums demonic Shadow Army. Those 7 realms are the Labyrinth, the Bone Pits, the Ice Wastes, the Chaos Planes, the Forgotten Vale, the Spawning Pools and the Twin Serpent Mountains.
  Everytime you enter this HF, two Reapers will be chosen by random to be non playable and be controled by the CPU as NPCs.
  In regard of which two Reapers aren’t playable, the Players will suffer from two different Gambits of the Underworld while being there, what will make this HF each time a little different experience.

Just 3 examples of how Heroic Fractal raids designed for beign played with 5 Persons could look like. These kinds of Raids would be heavily bonded together with the lore of the Game, for those that love lore and prefer rather Raid like Content, thats designed around a small party size, what makes that content naturally then also more difficult and as an Instance, it can naturally come easiyl together with a Normal Mode and a Hard Mode Version too

Fractals, I believe, is an excellent place to house Raids. This way the devs don’t have to bother with planning Raid locations on maps and it will help keep player population up in Lions Arch if Guild Halls are released. It is also an amazing way to deliver Lore to players.

Rewards and Functions around Dungeon Crawlers

Definition: What is a Dungeon Crawler?
For those that don’t now, what this is, a Dungeon Crawler is a specific type of Dungeon, which automatically generates itself randomly, so that each time when you enter it, the Dungeon will feel completely different than the last time, because you will find completely different enemies, completely different level designs and so on in there.
Simple example for that are games like .hack (DotHack), where the Dungeons are designed as Dungeon Crawls, where you find each time by random different enemies and locations ect.

Thats the Reward Scheme for Dungeon Crawlers:
Every non specific Dungeoneer Rank will players get rewarded by random with either:

- A random amount of a random Dungeon Token
- A random amount of random Lode Stones
- A Random amount of Random T4-6 Materials
- Karma Bags and a random Booster
- Gold Bags and a random rare to exotic Item
- An Item to unlock the new Gifted Collection that requires you to collect the Dungeon Gifts and some other

10: Unlock Dungeon Crawlers
25: Miniature Ogden Stonehealer
50: Title: Tomb Raider
100: Dungeoneer Helm/Hood/Cap
150: Dungeoneer Pauldrons/Scarf/Epaulets
200: Dungeoneer Greaves/Boots/Shoes
250: Dungeoneer Armor/Guise/Vest
300: Dungeoneer Legguards/Leggins/Breeches
350: Miniature Svánigandr
400: Title: Pirate of the Blood Coast
500: Chest with an Ascended Armor Piece of Choice
600: Chest with an Ascended Weapon of Choice
700: Chest with a Gift of Choice
800: Chest with an Ascended Weapon of Choice
900: Chest with a Gift of Choice, Endless Dungeon Tonic
1000: Chest with a Gift of Choice, Chest with an Ascended Armor of Choice, Title:
Grand Master of Dungeons

What kinds of Dungeon Crawlers should/could exist?

• Dwaynas’ Sky Tower Temple
  A huge 50 floor tower, that players can climb up where each floor will always look different, enemies will change each floor, except for the boss floors that come each 10 floors, which will always be the same bosses

• Melandru’s Mystical Forest
  A huge Forest Maze, that will change its level design everytime you enter it, having different enemies inside.

• Lair of Glint
  A large Cave that is full of illusions to test those who enter the lair. This mighty illision changes each time the design of the Cave and tests those who enter it with every tiem new horrors and fears made of illusions

A raid as being part of an epic storyline is a must for me personally. Looking back at the Lich King raid in WoW and how all the stories were intertwined made it more epic than a random fractal which is quite disconnected to the current happenings.

Yes, fractals are lore-related, but it’s very very little lore that supports these fractals outside of the fractal itself. Colin likes to talk about TV-series analogies, so to me it feels like watching season 5 of “The Walking Dead” and then putting in some scenes from season 1, but with little supporting and connection-building information.

We had some awesome fractals that show interesting szenes from lore (e.g. the Charr-party which raids Ascalon City) but there is little information about what actually happens outside (or even inside) the fractal. The info might be there, spread out to many npcs, but that’s not meaningfull storytelling to me.

Sure, a Abbadon raid sounds epic, but all the motivations behind it should be there. You should see some preparations for it outside of the raid-instance, dynamic events that support that storyline, etc.

Rewards for Guild Crusades

Guild Crusades and the smaller scaled soloable “Order Missions” alongside Guild Crusades which can be started from the Guild Halls of a Guild from the 3 different Order NPC’s will reward players as followed:

Doing successfuly a Guild Crusade will give the guild not only an substantial boost to the Guild Influence, but it also boosts the Guild Reputation, with that again can be raised the Guild Grade to upgrade the guild more and more in order to expand the Guild to something much more bigger and alot more meaning/prideful.

Just for better understanding:

Guild Influence = used to improve Guild Attributes, like Politics, Art of War, Economy, Architecture ect.
Guild Reputation = useful to improve the Rewards you get from the Guild Attributes, like making Banners last longer, have stronger effects ect. letting NPCs get more epic looking Guild Weapon Sets/ Guild Armor Sets, Expand the Options for Guild Logo Designs/Emblems and so on …
Guild Grade = needed to expand your Guild Hall, to unlock new designs for your Guild Island Instance, to unlock more epic looking decor for your Guild Hall, turning your Guild Hall into a Guild Fortress, then into a Guild Village and lastly into a Guild Town, Increasing your Member Cap, unlocking the Ability to set up Alliances with other Guilds.

So, this means, so more Guild Crusades you do, especially when together with Alliance Members so quicker do you gain Guild Reputation with that you can raise then again your Guild Grade to become a guild of epic size with a unique Guild Hall
——

Where would be Guild Crusades?
Instances of these could be found just like Guild Missions all over the map of Tyria.
In Fact, a Guild Crusade just turns a large Part of a Map Zone just into an Instance for the participatign players, in which then happens the Crusade.

But these Guild Missions will have also influence on the persistent map.
If the Guild is successful with the Guild Crusade, Players will gain temporarely a Gold and Magic Find Boost in that Map Zone while being inside of it.

But they also have negative effects.
If that guild should fail its Guild Crusade, then there wont exist temporarely anymore the Downed Mode in that Map and losing all your Health leads directly to death.
—-

Doing instead Order Missions (if you have not enough peopel for doing an Guild Crusade or if you just want to do something solo and help this way also your guild out), these will reward players with Organization Tokens.
OrganizationTokens of the Vigil, the Order of Secrets and the Durmand Priory can be used to gain new order based Weapon/Armor Sets/Miniatures/back items/sigils/runes and various recipes for new buffs (food/potions) or you can turn them just plain in for Influence/Reputation for your Guild.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Evening All,

Relics of Orr podcast about the CDI below:

http://www.relicsoforr.com/?p=3403

‘In this special episode we chat with guest host Soren of Gaiscíoch about the Raiding CDI and how Guild Wars 2 could create unique raids.’

Chris

P.S: Thanks Relics of Orr and Soren for your feedback.

There are some pretty major points they didn’t touch on.

If we talk about raids being the extreme type of challenging content, what we often see is a selling point to progress through the game (aka, end game). With that, it’s about the only thing i can see as to why GW2 even needs raid content. If you look at Destiny as an example, you’d see 10’s of thousands of people watching a few twitch streams attempting the first raid, so there is value in that.

Some things GW2 really needs to do right, if at all, is make the event action packed. The enemies simple cannot just be dps sponges (which most dungeon bosses are). I think that’s what made the marionette so good. Otherwise, raids will be left to the top 25% or less, depending on how fun/challenging/rewarding the content is.

While it’s totally awesome to discuss adding raids, i still feel there are other fundamental fish to fry. Maybe those things are in the works, maybe not, but i thought i’d point a few out.

Jumping/platforming. Some have mentioned (as well as the RoO podcast) having platforming as a type of mechanic. However, platforming in this game is extremely frustrating. This being entirely due to the game having one of the worst cameras of any game i think i’ve ever played. It’s actually fairly frustrating in the few guild missions that require it.

Roles. We really do need them more so in the game. While i don’t think a trinity is a viable option, there definitely needs to be value in individual participation. Most open world (and even dungeon content, unless you talk about stealth or portals) simply has little to no focus on individual participation. While that is a much bigger conversation, i still feel like raid content should be designed around individual participation beyond dps faster. I really think if the trait system had a wider birth and content required it, people would be more inclined to spec support.

Clearer tells on enemy states. Adding the blue fire to invulnerable targets in WvW comes to mind as a good tell design.

Reduced skill effects. Particle effects are pretty out of control, and in some instance are seizure inducing, temples in orr for example. You mine as well not increase the challenge when you can’t even tell what an enemy is about to do, especially when you toss more players in the fight.

Tab-targeting. While it doesn’t need to go, it really should be looked at, as it’s a pretty old, static method for combat initiation and engagement. The battle mod that’s floating around is a good step in a direction for more action based fights.

For my development dollar, addressing these things seem paramount to adding tougher content, like raids, else it becomes players fighting again the game mechanics.

Rewards for Battlegrounds and Hunting Reservoirs

As these two types are the most simple onces without any more complex reward structures behind them as like for Heroic Fractals, Dungeon Crawls or Guild Crusades/Order Missions.

These two functionize more like the classical Raid Structure, where players get just rewarded with massive amounts of more plain normal loot, like “Champion Bag”.
These types of raids are better for those players, which like to get more quantitive rewards, rather than qualitive rewards that come with reward tracks like shown above in my concepts. Battlegrounds would basically be the place for all those people, which loved to make “Champion Trains” and still do them whe/whenever possible still today in maps, like Frostgorge Sound as good as still possible.

Battlegrounds in itself can also be integrated into the concept of the other systems, like the Heroic Fractals, where a Battleground could work as Heroic Fractal to let us replay the battle again’st Scarlet’s Marionette, or where we can replay the Battle of Lion’s Arch.
Such simple things can be easily made into Battlegrounds which were already designed from begin on for large amounts of players to participate in those instances.

But naturally Battlegrounds could be found also just everywhere else in the map of Tyria, like one for example in the Centaur Territories where we would play as humans only against the Centaurs (making some racial based battlegrounds to fight against the racial arch enemies based on what race our character is).

Hunting Reservoirs on the other hand reward you just with unique materials, which you could find only in specific hunting reservoirs for example, what would guarantee, that people will always return to these, if they need some of the special accountbound materials that could be found only in the Hunting Reservoirs.
The difference here is just, you need to pay Gold/Karma first to get entrance to these Reservoirs to go for a hunt there, so it works also like a little Gold/Karma sink, which simple Champ Trains on persitant maps don’t.

Palador.2170:

…I think traditional raids are a very VERY bad idea for GW2….

Came here to say this. Was really hoping to hear more support for open world raids despite the challenges that it presents. It would feel truer to the game but if it’s not meant to be …oh well.

If we do go with instanced raids please bring the dynamic event system to vary how players can complete the raid. I really like the idea of branching paths. For example the raid can progress quite differently if the player decide to attack quickly and catch the enemy off guard or take strategic positions and draw enemies into a trap. You did a great job at this kind of thing in the story and I’d love to see more of it.

munkiman.3068:

Otherwise, raids will be left to the top 25% or less, depending on how fun/challenging/rewarding the content is.

25% would generally be considered an extremely high completion rate, I’d kinda expect Raids to be at least under 10%. Consider it at a difficulty level above fractal 50.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

A raid as being part of an epic storyline is a must for me personally. Looking back at the Lich King raid in WoW and how all the stories were intertwined made it more epic than a random fractal which is quite disconnected to the current happenings.

I can’t agree more I love when there’s lore both as part of the content and hidden away in the corners of the Raid. I think there are plenty of past events for raids to fit into should they go that route and there are plenty of modern locations that could be investigated/fitting too while both being important but not part of the main storyline (people would dislike that).

An Orr raid deeper into arah, perhaps less ruined could reveal more gods/vizer information, A raid to former GW1 locations now either buried or in dragon held areas could reveal plenty of information about last stands and the like. A raid to the central transfer chamber may be possible but I think it’s still Primodious’s lair so would be a while away.

Ohoni.6057:

The only things currently locked behind PvP are a flaming backpiece and some fairly ugly armor.

To quote you back at yourself That’s entirely your opinion.

My general opinion of your posts here are that you want to drag everyone down to your level. Someone else used the example I would use on you already but I second it. You don’t want some Olympic athlete level player to have nice rewards/unique medals for their achievement because you can’t have it despite them putting more time and effort in and objectively showing more skill.

You would have to be incredibly naive to think that if you made all items accessible through any content that the single optimal method wouldn’t be found in a day and many people would farm that till their eyes bleed making the game significantly less fun than the hunt for an item.

There should most certainly be “gear for the cool kids”. There should always be unique rewards for displaying skills,Coordination and teamwork above and beyond the average. As I know you haven’t forgotten this is a game (Hey look its that magical shield people hide behind when they want something made easier or given to them). Which means players should fully expect the possibility of not having the skills/ability to get everything in the game additionally the idea of doing a set challenge to get a specific thing is only a concept seen in oooh every game both single and multiplayer.

Ohoni.6057:

The only things currently locked behind PvP are a flaming backpiece and some fairly ugly armor. Even so, I would push to have those opened up through PvE means if I cared at all about getting either, and would support the cause of anyone else who did want to unlock them via PvP. There should be plenty of means to unlock any types of skins in the game, so that the most players can find some activity to unlock them which they find enjoyable. The fewer players “grinding” at something they do not enjoy, the better it is for ANet. Again, just because GW2 currently does something does not mean that it’s automatically the right thing to be doing or that they should not change it where possible.

I disagree. It’s not a fluke that some of the most valued skins in GW2 right now are acquired by completing specific content. Fractal skins, Sunless weapons, SAB (especially green or yellow) weapons all mean more to me than legendaries because they actually say something about the type of content that a player has completed. You would make these skins more broadly accessible and in doing so significantly devalue them. The Mistforged Hero weapons are a perfect example of this. These skins don’t mean a thing about a player’s WvW participation because a) achievements could be completed in EoTM and b) the recent Fall tournament handed tickets out like candy.

Anet needs more content-specific gear that’s actually appealing. Take note Anet: putting smelly fumes on a reskin of ascended armor is not my idea of a good incentive and is the sole reason that I’ve never bothered completing Triple Trouble more than once. Also, I’m sure it’s been mentioned countless time already, but token systems to supplement RNG drops would go a great way towards improving the way these items are acquired.

Back to mechanics:

Proposal Overview
Enrage mechanics / hidden timer (I had a whole post written before I realized this is what I was trying to describe.)

Goal of Proposal
To act as an indicator that you’re doing something wrong or that there is a mechanic you’re not understanding.

Proposal Functionality

Lets say there is a fight against “dark cat zuzu”, you must lead a mouse to it every 15 seconds to keep removing a buff or it only takes 1/100th damage.
Keeping the buff down 50% of the time it would take an average raid quality group 10 minutes to kill it.
So setting a timer for 20 minutes, if for some reason you’re still fighting the boss at this point , it pretty much insta wipes you.

I realize this is a mechanic present in other games and we were asked to move off this but I realized it served an important function and is something we might actually need.

Associated Risks
This mechanic would tend to most effect groups that are barely making it through as it is.

I’d like to hear peoples thoughts on alternatives if you have any?

Ashen.2907:

..
Some of your other suggestions seem reasonable so long as the return for vendoring undesirable drops is sufficient to offset the greater investment generally required of raiding than is the case in other forms of content. The key is to avoid reducing the play value of the content from a rewards perspective by making the rewards undesirable or making repeats of those rewards undesirable. “Wow this is my fifteenth copy of the Untradable Sword of Awesomeness !”

If salvaging such untradable rewards was introduced kitten a means of making them valuable to those who dislike the skin or who have it already I would hope that the materials so gained would be both valuable and tradable themselves.

Time to catch up

I know that we currently have places where you can be carried to rewards, but I’m hoping the raids will end up difficult enough to not make that possible. I hope they make the raids hard enough to make every single player have to pull his weight.

But you’re right, it could end up being the case, but if it does, I’d expect it to be once the “hardcore” players have become so used to the encounters that they can make up for one (or two) not pulling their weight.
If I’m right about that, the skins would at least have had a chance to be in the game, before people get easy ways in. Still a problem though, but not immediate.

As for vendoring and salvaging, I’m definitely thinking vendor values that will make it worthwhile your time, and materials that will either be useful to you or have some tradevalue.

Finally, I few pages back, I suggested first of all, that the rewards come in boxes, so at least you get the skin you want (if there is one).
And also, that perhaps several of the same skin and/or possible salvage parts from salvaging these skins could be combined in the mystic forge to upgrade the skin (adding more effects etc.) or possibly an actual item progression through exotic, ascended and infused ascended (with changing looks, like the fractal capacitor).

I will probably be posting multiple scenarios like the following in the next week:

Raid Concept

Ulgoth’s Revenge, a siege style raid against centaurs intent on avenging Ulgoth’s defeat.

Setting

An instanced version of the western third of Gendarren Fields, specifically the area between Stonebore Vaults and Nebo Terrace.

Rules of Engagement

• The player’s base is in Nebo Terrace while the centaurs are in Stonebore Vaults.

Win/Loss Conditions

• Win: defeat two legendary centaur champions with raid style mechanics within the vaults – while simultaneously defending Nebo Terrace from progressively stronger centaur assault waves.

• Loss: Lose Nebo Terrace (the typical blue/red circle capture mechanic we are all familiar with)

Mechanics/Functionality

There are two ways to approach the raid:

• In the first, you split the raid in two, with one group defending NT and the other assaulting the Vaults.

• The second method (which would work better for smaller groups, but would take longer to complete) would be to have the entire party defend Nebo Terrace while you build upgrades (Walls, guard patrols, cannons, etc). Once the Terrace is fully upgraded and can stand on its own against the centaur assault, the entire party can assault the Vaults together.

Bosses/Other Encounters

• Centaur Siegemaster – The siegemaster would be an optional boss and would be virtually impossible to defeat even with a maximum sized raid. His job is to take Nebo Terrace (even though he doesnt attack the Terrace himself). He would be located just north of the Terrace. (NOTE: defeating this boss would not stop the assault waves – he is there solely as an optional hardcore challenge)

• Assault Waves – The centaur assault waves are more complex and troublesome than those found in open world DEs. They even use siege weapons such as arrow carts, ballista and even catapults to harass and attempt to “herd” your party into deadly chokepoints and traps.

• Centaur Shaman – The first legendary encounter within the Vaults, he would be a master of the elements, similar to Ulgoth (only with much more complex and deadly mechanics).

• Centaur Chieftain (final boss) – Defeating the chieftain will demoralize the centaurs and end the assault. The chieftain is lightning fast on his feet and uses a lot of cc style mechanics, such as nets and, if a players wanders to near to a ledge, a cave in under them. He switches between a bow and melee style spear as his primary weapons. He shifts between melee and ranged attacks liberally. In range, he never stands still, but does while using the spear (giving melee heavy parties burn phases in which to stack and get out lots of damage)

Achievements and Rewards (achievements should be a big part of raiding)

• Achievement: Faster than Lightening – defeat the final bosses in x time (this should be tuned to only be possible if groups split up and handle the defense and assault simultaneously)

• Achievement: Stop with the Knocking – defeat the optional (hardcore) Centaur Siegemaster

• Reward (one time): Cheiftain’s Head, which can be turned in at a new raid vendor in Lion’s Arch for credit toward a collection achievement and for a one time gold/unique skin reward.

• Reward (ongoing): 60 Golden Hooves (work identically to dungeon tokens, only with weekly diminishing returns) (Im not married to this option – just believe their should be unique rewards for raiding – but that they should be in line with rewards from other game modes)

Philosophy/Gameplay goal
The goal in this proposal is to show how GW2 style combat and encounters can be used to create a “flexible” encounter that rewards teamwork and player skill without a heavy reliance on numbers (skill trumps numbers). While smaller groups would make a sacrifice (the raid would take longer), they really wouldn’t be at a disadvantage when it comes to completing the raid.

I didnt go into too much detail regarding boss mechanics, but it should go without saying that the fights should be at a difficulty/complexity level higher than dungeons.

Again, this is just one idea. I may (probably will) come up with more as the week goes on and I brainstorm a little regarding how raiding in GW2 can be unique and fun.

Ohoni.6057:

Prestige should not be attached to gear. Gear should be about style and widely available. If you like under the delusion that other players are impressed by what you do, and care what gear you equip, then Titles are good enough to establish that. There should not be skins that only “the cool kids” can get.

Prestige should not be attached to gear, no. But some gear should be attached to prestige. What I mean by this is: it’s not the gear that makes it prestige, it’s your achievement. The gear is just the visual representation of your achievement. It’s your way of showing the community that you beat something hard. Why do you want to take that away from people?

And no, titles are not enough. I think maybe once a month I notice someone’s title, and that’s only when I’m actually playing with them and standing/running near them for longer periods of time. That’s visual enough.

Gele.2048:

15 man is good im more for 20 but if u like to be more easy to team up then keep it to 15 .
Also how about gear only for raids so we can have progresion PLS do this i wanna have carrot on a stick for long time in this game skins are not my thing and iv lost to many friends in the skin wars thank you in advance .
also the raiding gear will not work in pve/pvp/wvw only in raids so you can keep it balanced and we can have fun to make the game cooler and you can add some reputation grind like in eye of the north titles will make some skills stronger you take less dmg u deal more dmg etc etc !!

Adding any kind of gear (stat) progression would go against the core principles of the game. Just remember what happened when they introduced ascended gear (that was enough).
As for titles making skills stronger, all I can say is: NO. That’s is the very opposite of what we need. We don’t need more stuff gated behind time. We need stuff gated behind difficulty and skill.

Ohoni.6057:

In that case, I’d like C to be: Get rewards while doing my job, so I can make money and play the game at the same time.

Yeah, which is kind of the point, this is a game, if you aren’t having fun then the devs have done something wrong. If you’re playing the game, you should be doing the activities you enjoy, not the activities that are a chore to you but that offer the loot you’re looking for.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
In my opinion and experience, having no unique rewards in areas like this partially devaluates the content.
Luckily for me, it seems most people here share my point of view on this particular matter.

And a certain recent sci-fi MMO crashed against the reef of believing that people in raid-oriented threads were representative of their larger game population. I would expect most people in this thread to be all for raids getting whatever raiders want and forget about everyone else, but don’t expect that the larger community to be happy with that outcome if it happens.

But Prestige is directly lined to the inability for it to be acquired by alternative means or traded. The entire value is on the basis that the person MUST have completed the content themselves and that the content is an impressive feat to complete.

Prestige should not be attached to gear. Gear should be about style and widely available. If you like under the delusion that other players are impressed by what you do, and care what gear you equip, then Titles are good enough to establish that. There should not be skins that only “the cool kids” can get.

In that case, you’d argue in favour of making all gear unbounded, so everything can be bought on the trading post.
After all, you make gold with everything you do in the game, so none of the rewards would be out of your reach then.

Blaeys.3102:

I will probably be posting multiple scenarios like the following in the next week:

Raid Concept

Ulgoth’s Revenge, a siege style raid against centaurs intent on avenging Ulgoth’s defeat.

Setting

An instanced version of the western third of Gendarren Fields, specifically the area between Stonebore Vaults and Nebo Terrace.

Rules of Engagement

• The player’s base is in Nebo Terrace while the centaurs are in Stonebore Vaults.

Win/Loss Conditions

• Win: defeat two legendary centaur champions with raid style mechanics within the vaults – while simultaneously defending Nebo Terrace from progressively stronger centaur assault waves.

• Loss: Lose Nebo Terrace (the typical blue/red circle capture mechanic we are all familiar with)

Mechanics/Functionality

There are two ways to approach the raid:

• In the first, you split the raid in two, with one group defending NT and the other assaulting the Vaults.

• The second method (which would work better for smaller groups, but would take longer to complete) would be to have the entire party defend Nebo Terrace while you build upgrades (Walls, guard patrols, cannons, etc). Once the Terrace is fully upgraded and can stand on its own against the centaur assault, the entire party can assault the Vaults together.

Bosses/Other Encounters

• Centaur Siegemaster – The siegemaster would be an optional boss and would be virtually impossible to defeat even with a maximum sized raid. His job is to take Nebo Terrace (even though he doesnt attack the Terrace himself). He would be located just north of the Terrace. (NOTE: defeating this boss would not stop the assault waves – he is there solely as an optional hardcore challenge)

• Assault Waves – The centaur assault waves are more complex and troublesome than those found in open world DEs. They even use siege weapons such as arrow carts, ballista and even catapults to harass and attempt to “herd” your party into deadly chokepoints and traps.

• Centaur Shaman – The first legendary encounter within the Vaults, he would be a master of the elements, similar to Ulgoth (only with much more complex and deadly mechanics).

• Centaur Chieftain (final boss) – Defeating the chieftain will demoralize the centaurs and end the assault. The chieftain is lightning fast on his feet and uses a lot of cc style mechanics, such as nets and, if a players wanders to near to a ledge, a cave in under them. He switches between a bow and melee style spear as his primary weapons. He shifts between melee and ranged attacks liberally. In range, he never stands still, but does while using the spear (giving melee heavy parties burn phases in which to stack and get out lots of damage)

Achievements and Rewards (achievements should be a big part of raiding)

• Achievement: Faster than Lightening – defeat the final bosses in x time (this should be tuned to only be possible if groups split up and handle the defense and assault simultaneously)

• Achievement: Stop with the Knocking – defeat the optional (hardcore) Centaur Siegemaster

• Reward (one time): Cheiftain’s Head, which can be turned in at a new raid vendor in Lion’s Arch for credit toward a collection achievement and for a one time gold/unique skin reward.

• Reward (ongoing): 60 Golden Hooves (work identically to dungeon tokens, only with weekly diminishing returns) (Im not married to this option – just believe their should be unique rewards for raiding – but that they should be in line with rewards from other game modes)

Philosophy/Gameplay goal
The goal in this proposal is to show how GW2 style combat and encounters can be used to create a “flexible” encounter that rewards teamwork and player skill without a heavy reliance on numbers (skill trumps numbers). While smaller groups would make a sacrifice (the raid would take longer), they really wouldn’t be at a disadvantage when it comes to completing the raid.

I didnt go into too much detail regarding boss mechanics, but it should go without saying that the fights should be at a difficulty/complexity level higher than dungeons.

Again, this is just one idea. I may (probably will) come up with more as the week goes on and I brainstorm a little regarding how raiding in GW2 can be unique and fun.

Very cool idea, Blaeys. I’ll very much support this kind of raid.

munkiman.3068:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Evening All,

Relics of Orr podcast about the CDI below:

http://www.relicsoforr.com/?p=3403

‘In this special episode we chat with guest host Soren of Gaiscíoch about the Raiding CDI and how Guild Wars 2 could create unique raids.’

Chris

P.S: Thanks Relics of Orr and Soren for your feedback.

Jumping/platforming. Some have mentioned (as well as the RoO podcast) having platforming as a type of mechanic. However, platforming in this game is extremely frustrating. This being entirely due to the game having one of the worst cameras of any game i think i’ve ever played. It’s actually fairly frustrating in the few guild missions that require it.

I have to agree with this sentiment on platforming in GW2. The camera issues need to be addressed before I want to see it in challenging content —i.e. Raids--. There is a ton of content in the game I won’t go back and do(Certain tight-corridor(ed) content)because it is frustrating having to fight the camera.

I didn’t mind it in Dry Top as much because it’s open enough, but I don’t see Raids being as wide open as that. Open spaces don’t lend themselves to feeling a sense of danger.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

runeblade.7514:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Symph.8407:

But you cannot exclude unique rewards because a minority of the playerbase might not like them.

You dont have to exclude the rewards , but that doesnt mean that the reward must be ’’beautiful’’ :P

PPl WILL BE FORCED to play the raid if the reward is visually beeautiful , and they will moan that encounter to be nerfed afterwards .
But if the lesser-easier bosses throw those ’’beautifuls’’ rewards they wont whine at all … and the other ‘’ugly-prestigious’’ gear can be be looted by the dificult bosses for the pro players :P

Edit : Ah , i didnt see the ’’red’’ post … sorry

Fractals had ascended rings and beautiful fractal weapons but, I didn’t feel forced to play fractals.

So no. You’re wrong.

If they weapons + rings where only avialable only in the 51 lvl Fractal , i would love to hear your opinion at that time :P
And in order to reach you 1 extra lvl , you have to maxed out with full accendant gear . a character :P
But if want every boss to drop that ‘’beautiful gear’’ and not exclusive the last boss , i am ok with that :P

Few ppl doing Raids = in the near future = less suport + longer time to create new Raids .
You need ppl , but if the problem is loot … i dont know what to say
In PvP side there was a moto : ‘’as long as there are athletes , ppl will fill the stadium’’ . And atm the stadium is still bhalf empty ….

I am only at level 14. So the difference of level 30 and 50 doesn’t make a difference.

Naetell.3815:

In that case, you’d argue in favour of making all gear unbounded, so everything can be bought on the trading post.

Well, yeah, i was never in favour of soul/accountbound stuff.

After all, you make gold with everything you do in the game, so none of the rewards would be out of your reach then.

TP should be a backup method of getting anything, true, but it should always be a secondary method. And for every item there should be at least two primary approaches to obtaining it.

I’m just scratching my head at so many of these suggestions. I haven’t read past CDI threads but this is really depressing more than anything else. Its not a matter coming up with how to resolve an issue with someone’s suggestion when the core idea of it is just so against what I enjoy about the game.

Crysto i’ll just quote someone else from the dungeon forums.

That CDI sums up to:

“Lets ask our casual playerbase to help give input on hardcore content. Players who have no idea of what they want and are locusts who will only do instanced ‘hard’ content once and never see it again.”

Yea that’ll turn out well.

I would just to add that these kind of players not only don’t understand basic mechanics but constantly bashing meta gameplay which obviously they didn’t understand as well so any suggestion given by them would be just a mess.
Of course honorable mention to the ones who are exceptions from the above.

I would die for some raid content in this game but given the direction this “discussion” is going i’m starting to going against the idea. :/

Astralporing.1957:

Naetell.3815:

In that case, you’d argue in favour of making all gear unbounded, so everything can be bought on the trading post.

Well, yeah, i was never in favour of soul/accountbound stuff.

After all, you make gold with everything you do in the game, so none of the rewards would be out of your reach then.

TP should be a backup method of getting anything, true, but it should always be a secondary method. And for every item there should be at least two primary approaches to obtaining it.

I just don’t understand this sentiment at all. Why do some people insist on everything being available to them?
You’re killing all sense of special for items this way. If everything is available everywhere, nothing is special. Then this game will completely and entirely be about who has most time for farming gold.
It’s already way too depending on gold farming, if they add more stuff to that, you might as well just pull the plug..

Edit:
The game should be made up of several “areas” of gameplay, each type more or less different from the rest, and each of those areas should have something exclusive and unique to them.
This way, the people who enjoy each respective type of gameplay and are good at it, can show off to the rest of community, that this is the area that they mastered.

I would hate to come to a game and spot someone in super cool looking gear, and think to myself “I want that”, and then when I ask how he got it, he tells me he just grinded for gold.. I would think “wow.. that was.. disappointing..” and then I would probably find another game.

Dalanor.5387:

Crysto i’ll just quote someone else from the dungeon forums.

That CDI sums up to:

“Lets ask our casual playerbase to help give input on hardcore content. Players who have no idea of what they want and are locusts who will only do instanced ‘hard’ content once and never see it again.”

Yea that’ll turn out well.

I would just to add that these kind of players not only don’t understand basic mechanics but constantly bashing meta gameplay which obviously they didn’t understand as well so any suggestion given by them would be just a mess.
Of course honorable mention to the ones who are exceptions from the above.

I would die for some raid content in this game but given the direction this “discussion” is going i’m starting to going against the idea. :/

Quoted for the sad truth.

I hope the devs are well aware of this fault in CDI’s. I understand the purpose of the CDI is to allow those players to discuss ideas which might make them play raids. But the reality is players who wouldnt normally play them probably wont play them more than once even if you tailor it to them. So i hope anet sticks with the traditional style of extremely challenging content for hardcore players with good unique rewards. And just adds incentives to encourage new players to give raids a chance. Probably best way to do this is to add some kind of mentor system so experienced players get rewarded for teaching new players and taking them along with them.

And in terms of mechanics and general design you only need to look back at the elite zones in GW1 and base them off those. The reward systems and free roaming style of Underworld, FoW, DoA were really good. Then you also have Urgoz’s Warren and The Deep to use as source material aswell. Go back to your roots please!

Id like to see discussion on how to adapt those zones and missions into GW2. So how would you alter mechanics to complement GW2’s different combat, build and party system. Because frankly that is a really good starting place and it is a style which is pretty unique to the Guild Wars franchise.

Please, let’s stay away from elitism in this thread.
More than a “sad truth”, that is trying to discredit other’s ideas just based on some assumption that “they are casuals, that don’t know what they want and won’t play the raids more than once”.
I can see where that comes from, but at the same time, this is not a democracy, this is just exposing ideas, it doesn’t necessarily means that if an idea gets “repeated” a lot, it has more weight or is better than one that was said just once.
Try to help by proposing and showing your perspective, not by complaining about others being part of the discussion.

Baltzenger.2467:

Please, let’s stay away from elitism in this thread.
More than a “sad truth”, that is trying to discredit other’s ideas just based on some assumption that “they are casuals, that don’t know what they want and won’t play the raids more than once”.
I can see where that comes from, but at the same time, this is not a democracy, this is just exposing ideas, it doesn’t necessarily means that if an idea gets “repeated” a lot, it has more weight or is better than one that was said just once.
Try to help by proposing and showing your perspective, not by complaining about others being part of the discussion.

Well i hope the bolded part is true. But we have seen evidence of the opposite when discussing balance very recently. Which is undestandable because you remember things more clearly if they are repeated, devs are only human they cant get everything right and sometimes they will listen too much to the wrong people. Which is why I think it is important to bring the issue to the devs attention. Please excuse the slightly aggressive tones. Its still something that shouldnt be ignored. So I would ask that you please dont descredit posts just because of slightly harsh wording.

Orpheal.8263:

Based on which kind of Fractals and which Level you did, will influence the End Amount of Fractal Knowledge that you will gain.

Is this fractal type gated behind the FoTM’s? If so, not sure this is a good idea. How many raiders are playing these? How inclusive does this feel to the rest of the community? Does everyone have to do Fractals to gain access to all of the raid content…or just this one type?

maha.7902:

This thread is full of people vehemently opposed to raiding giving “ideas”. This thread is full of people vehemently opposed to any sort of skilled play giving “ideas”.

That is why it is a discussion. People opposed to raiding can still offer a valuable perspective, which in turn can give a creative person ideas on how to solve said percieved problems without compromising the integrity of what raiding is.
If no one would ever listen to people opposed to a concept, our technology would never have advanced to where it is today. The fact you can play a videogame on the internet is because of dissatisfied people.
It’s a better idea to address their concerns, rather than dismiss them. In fact, what many people have against raiding is exclusion to begin with, and they are not wrong.

As for people opposed to skilled play, I haven’t seen anyone speak up against that, so you might want to point them out to me.

maha.7902:

Do you see why skillful players are frustrated with this thread when they’re just being drowned out by endless complaining about the imaginary stacking problem, people who have deluded themselves in to thinking support doesn’t matter, and suggestions like upscales being allowed to raid (as if that wouldn’t dilute the difficulty or anything) or making the rewards terrible so people wouldn’t be “required” (ok just how people are “required” to flip the TP or do dungeons to make money ohwaittheyarent) to raid.

As a skillful player, I do not feel frustrated with any of the above. I consider them parts of an ongoing discussion, and not something to anger myself at. There is no need to project your personal feelings on everyone else.

And yes, some of those are strange sentiments to have, but they are being repeated by one or two people in total, which is far from what anyone would describe as a popular idea. In fact, there are more people arguing against their ideas than there are people arguing for those ideas. The most constructive voices are trying to find a middle ground that doesn’t compromise on difficulty or anything.

Let’s invoke Godwin, that’ll lend credibility to your argument.

Crysto.7089:

I’m just scratching my head at so many of these suggestions. I haven’t read past CDI threads but this is really depressing more than anything else. Its not a matter coming up with how to resolve an issue with someone’s suggestion when the core idea of it is just so against what I enjoy about the game.

Then maybe raiding isn’t for you. Just like PvP isn’t for everyone, etc.
If you mean something else, you’ll need to clarify your position.

I have a question

Ppl say nobody should be carried/ pull there weight in those raids.

So how is that monitored/ controlled ?

Without a dps meter how we know who is been carried by 20 people?

A lot of the players I know would enjoy a reworked map of Underworld. The various missions leading to a conclusion was a great idea. It was originally designed for 8 players so the scaling to 15 shouldn’t be tremendously difficult.

I would like to see some of the quests within this be splitting quests. 3 5 man groups have to do something to advance to a bring up an NPC that gives the next quest in the chain.

I also would enjoy seeing an environmental debuff that is removed after the successful completion of a particular quest (it could even be a bonus quest rather than a main quest, so it increases the difficulty for speed clearing..you have to make the choice to do this quest or go for the faster way dealing with mitigation as you go).

If the underworld is utilized (or any other previous map) lore must be preserved with as little reconning as possible. Otherwise, the long time players will have issues that will decrease their desire to play.

Underworld had some timed events, kill x in y time or you lose. This is a nother valid quest type.

One quest could release NPC’s throughout the map, to either open doors or portals, provide small levels of support, or need to be saved before they all are killed…possibly another case can be made for a split party quest.

Just a few ideas