Guild Wars 2

timmyf.1490:

Ahh, but here we go then: maybe these zones are split based on whether you’ve killed the dragon or not! So new players get infested territory and have to clear it. I’m not sure if this is feasible without an “underflow” server or something, but it’s an option..

Which means we’re back at the Pre/Post Searing Ascalon gambit I brought up earlier.
But then we’d need some option to allow players a way to go back in Pre Pact if they want.

Also are you tracking via end of Personal Story or Arah dungeon, because we know there are players who don’t dungeon. I’d hate to punish them. Then again we are punishing those who hate the Personal Story too lol.

timmyf.1490:

Atlas.9704:

Then what about elements of after effects? Will they have a pay expansion for a “clean” Orr?

Edit: I dunno why I’m putting down the word “Pay” maybe its because when I hear the term expansion that always comes to mind.

I doubt we’ll ever get a “clean” Orr… at least not Straits/Malchor’s/Cursed Shore.

I could see a Living Story update where we push into Arah (on the ground) and it’s clean.

This is exactly why we need new areas without the Personal Story: we could conceivably defeat a dragon and see its minions disappear.

Sadly, arenanet could script in a big nuclear bomb that is dropped from an Asura airship and level the area. Theres hardly any farming going on there, people only zone in every once in a while to complete a temple event and even thats rare on many servers. Other than to map complete, its borderline pointless to ever stop foot in Orr. Why run around Orr frustrate yourself with knockdowns, cripples, immobalize, etc when you can run around queensdale or kessex now, with ease.

cesmode.4257:

Sadly, arenanet could script in a big nuclear bomb that is dropped from an Asura airship and level the area. Theres hardly any farming going on there, people only zone in every once in a while to complete a temple event and even thats rare on many servers. Other than to map complete, its borderline pointless to ever stop foot in Orr. Why run around Orr frustrate yourself with knockdowns, cripples, immobalize, etc when you can run around queensdale or kessex now, with ease.

This isn’t about the farming, but more about how to integrate a “locked” (in terms of story) zone with the Living Story.

Atlas.9704:

Which means we’re back at the Pre/Post Searing Ascalon gambit I brought up earlier.
But then we’d need some option to allow players a way to go back in Pre Pact if they want.

Also are you tracking via end of Personal Story or Arah dungeon, because we know there are players who don’t dungeon. I’d hate to punish them. Then again we are punishing those who hate the Personal Story too lol.

I don’t necessarily like the idea of splitting zones, it was just an off-hand suggestion.

I still think that there should be new content, perhaps delivered in the form of an expansion, which opens up new territory once you’ve joined an Order. The story would blend in to the Personal Story without being Personal Story. You could have a unique cinematic or two to open it up and a few instances that explain why you’re in the new area.

Of course, as the world changes, your reasons for going to those areas might change, so those cinematics may need to be refreshed periodically.

timmyf.1490:

I don’t necessarily like the idea of splitting zones, it was just an off-hand suggestion.

I still think that there should be new content, perhaps delivered in the form of an expansion, which opens up new territory once you’ve joined an Order. The story would blend in to the Personal Story without being Personal Story. You could have a unique cinematic or two to open it up and a few instances that explain why you’re in the new area.

Of course, as the world changes, your reasons for going to those areas might change, so those cinematics may need to be refreshed periodically.

Well I will say that anything which makes the Orders worthwhile is worth exploring.
I’m saddened by the fact that joining an order only means you can pick from this/that armor set when you break it all down. The missions in the PS were small, quick, and ultimately not really needed.

I find such a disconnect with:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset.

…And…

BobbyStein.2315:

That’s not my decision to make. That stated, feedback regarding the cadence is useful and constructive to others so I think it’s good for people to tell us how they feel about the release schedule.

You think our feedback on that is necessary, but there’s no point, because it’s ultimately futile?

The problem is that game encourage runing in mindless zerg. Zergs that doesn’t have any coordination should be severly punished, by champions, that have alot of anti-zerg aoe abilities. And mean Abilities, which 3 hits will wipe out entire zerg.

While I think it’s good to have some content that is designed to break up the zerg, I do not think that anti-zerg should become the new normal. Overall, the erg is more good than bad. It’s a way for players to cooperate that does not require voice or prior planning. It is easy to pick up and go, which is one of GW2’s biggest strengths. The vast majority of open world content should be relatively “zergable.”

I am also not a fan of the idea being kicked around of having significant negative consequences when people fail an event. Failing an event should maybe start a “failure condition” event that forces them to do some other activities to get another shot at completing the original event, but it should not make the whole place a hassle for a significant amount of time. I think the Modnir event chain has a suitable level of failure states.

nethy, this is just speculation, but my guess is that there is (or at least was) quite a bit of internal discussion about release cadence and how it should be handled. The decision was made to do 2 week releases and that decision was communicated.

The way corporate anything works is that, once the decision is communicated, that’s how it happens. (Also: it is the right way to do things.)

I think we’re seeing the result of that: while it’s currently necessary to outwardly project that 2 weeks are the way it is, my guess is that there will continue to be internal discussions about whether that is the right decision and whether changing it is a possibility.

Now, all of that could just be wishful thinking on my part and I will take no offense if somebody from ArenaNet comes and lays down the hammer and says that everybody in the company 100% agrees with the existing release cadence. Period. And I need to quit speculating because I’m a big dummy dumb-head. :-)

I think I have deciphered what the living world truely is.

It is all that would be embodied in a traditional 6month+ content patch or expansion, broken up in 2 week bits. Whatever issues anyone may have with the various parts, and even I have issues with what I am about to list, it has story, polish, dungeons, changes to the world, QoL enhancements, etc.

Now, the problem that this version of Living Story/Content patch has that traditional ones do not, is that everything is so broken up, disjointed, and it just feels like they are doing 2 week patch jobs to the game.

Normally in a game, for example, WoW you can log into the new expansion and experience everything the new content has to offer at your own time and pace without feeling rushed. Do whatever you want. You literally have months to do it. With the 2 week speed, its do or die. Do it, or go home. Experience the content or miss out. Its a completely negative experience.

Yes, we get it for free, but the entire game is free. The whole ‘its free content’ argument is invalid because the entire game is free. And it is hardly free when ~1 of people get the drops needed for items that are otherwise purchased via the gem store. So yea, its free…but so is the rest of the game. And everything that you may want is either highly rare drop or purchased on the gem store. This argument about free is invalid.

Just take a step back, compare the last dozen or so LS updates to a traditional 6month+ content patch or expansion.

I just think LS is a traditional content patch that is masked by a faster release schedule. But I think it is backfiring.

Improvements I would like to see in the living story:

1. Design content requiring other then 30 30 x x x full zerker builds.

2. Increase the time to complete the metas to 3-4weeks, instead of 2 for casual players etc. While I do not have any issues completing these, I know many people that do.

3. better rewards, so far in whole living story best rewards were from completing of the Karka event back when south sun got implimented and Orr ember farm. Have not seen anything coming anywhere close to that since.

Tongku.5326:

Improvements I would like to see in the living story:

1. Design content requiring other then 30 30 x x x full zerker builds.

2. Increase the time to complete the metas to 3-4weeks, instead of 2 for casual players etc. While I do not have any issues completing these, I know many people that do.

3. better rewards, so far in whole living story best rewards were from completing of the Karka event back when south sun got implimented and Orr ember farm. Have not seen anything coming anywhere close to that since.

I can agree with this. And I definately agree on first point, which I don’t think has been touched on much in this thread.

If you build content that enables zergs, you don’t need anything other than zerker builds. Objective: Kill. Thats it. Theres hardly any risk if you are in a sea of players. I too would love to see content that encourages other builds, support builds, condition removal builds, etc.

Good point.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Some of you posted about your favorite releases and least favorite. It would be really cool if you have the time to post your single favorite and least favorite and the reasons why for each. This would help a lot and I will share my learning with you etc. from the posts.

Easily the Bazaar of the Four Winds is my favorite. The area and the look of the ship were just incredible. The artwork and the scenery associated with the ship were breathtaking. There were actual puzzles to solve rather than just things to kill. It introduced the best mini game you have given us. Sanctum Sprint was not only a race but it involved skill and direction decisions and amazingly beautiful scenery in the instance.

Just to throw this in: For sheer fun and delight, Winter’s Day and Halloween 2012 were the most fun! The decorative changes to LA were awesome for both as well. Halloween 2013 not so much since you ganked the dungeon Ascent to Madness. The Blood Prince was a cool addition, but his instances didn’t hold a candle to the Ascent.

My least favorite, without even thinking about it, is the Super Adventure Box and it’s sequel. It feels so completely out of place and cheapens the fantasy/magical feel of the game. I grew up playing those type of games and I now play games like GW1 and 2 because of the beauty and more realistic ‘feel’. It doesn’t make me reminiscent, it makes me cringe.

Also when I see the pixelated minis and worse, the 1980’s video game sounds and music, it completely throws me out of my immersion in the game. I don’t like it at all.

I want to see player-driven dynamic events tied to player/guild housing/property….such as farms, for example.

Sell me a plot of land somewhere in the game. It could even be located inside a publicly accessible instance along with other players’ properties. Allow me to upgrade the property with buildings, NPCs, merchants, etc. Allow me to hire NPC farmhands to tend the crops while I’m out adventuring. You get the idea. Now for the fun part…

Allow me to send pack bulls or dolyaks out from my farm to sell my goods at market. Allow other players to guard my shipments as a dynamic event. If my goods reach the market, the helpful players would get a percentage of the profits, karma, experience, etc. and I would get gold. If they don’t make it to market, the event fails and they would only get some XP and I would lose the goods.

That was just an example.

For a living world to feel alive, there must be characters and players moving about all corners of the map. Player owned farms, shops, properties, etc would go a long way to giving players a reason to be out there.

We also need more crafting/gathering professions such as Hunting, Fishing, Farming and Mercantile.

A living world contains the extraordinary as well as the mundane. In the real world, not everyone runs around with a sword and shield or spouting magic from their fingertips. Rather than fighting elder dragons, I know players that would be content to sit at their virtual homes and tend their crops all day long.

Oh…and the living story currency is out of control. There is absolutely no reason to have more than one living story currency. Black Lion Claim Tickets would be my choice. Players could then save them up from release to release and buy items they may have missed, such as the Ancient Karka Shell, Flame & Frost Gloves or the Fervid Censer, for example.

BobbyStein.2315:

One huge challenge facing the Living World narrative, in my opinion, is guidance. Personal Story has the journal. Dynamic Events have the event UI. Until now, the Living World had: mails, achievements, and scattered icons. That’s all. There was nothing to guide you to the content directly. We never taught the player how to navigate the releases using these systems, which were never designed to be used in this way.

The first improvement to address this went live on 10/29. The special event UI now tells you where to go and in what order to experience the story bits. We have designs for another system that will potentially sort out the timelines and provide other mechanisms to enhance LW releases, but until it’s confirmed for a specific build I can’t divulge more specifics.

I also didn’t notice the new ui i stopped paying attention to that part of the ui because at the moment it is cluttered with my daily, the 2 ls updates my personal story and whatever quest chain i am lose to at the time. I think the living story really should be told better through the tools you already have the npc’s. I recall the scavenger hunt in the first halloween started with a clue and each other spot had a clue to the next every other time you had us find object’s you abandoned this method and just asked us to wander around aimlessly and hope to find stuff this has lead people to simply check guides and it becomes a chore not fun.

nethykins.7986:

You think our feedback on that is necessary, but there’s no point, because it’s ultimately futile?

he is the head writer not the guy who decides the cadence. you want to direct your complaints at the cadence at chris who makes that decision.

What’s fun? Being able to do something and get something for it that’s neat. Looking at the costs of the items for Halloween and the Adventure box. I don’t even bother to start because I know I wont be able to finish it in time. So every living story announcement to me is pretty much these are the zones to not go in to avoid lag. If there were reasonable requirements for stuff it might be neat to looking at their past events it’s not worth the time nor effort.

Now I’m making a stab at the WvW Season 1 achievements. Because I’m all about PvP in MMOs. However I’m guessing it’s probably just going to be a box of stuff that meets up with the Mystic Salvage kit anyways. If it’s Ascended it gets kept, if it’s Legendary it’s sold, everything…….there’s the recycle.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Just wanted to let you know i am super busy today and will be posting over the weekend. I am very much enjoying the discussion especially around Dynamic Event usage and failure. Thanks for your patience and continued discussion.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Dynamic Event
I remember the dynamic event of the first Halloween. The meta Event : Knocking On The Door. That was brillant. If you can keep doing this kind of Meta event for LW release, that would be awesome. It’s start with a investigator, followed by an escort, other stuff and finish by opening a gate to another world. Did I say brillant? It was spectacular. That those kind of thing I’m still waiting to see again. Some great Meta event. In ToN there are event or really really short meta event. I don’t find it as fun as a big meta event and it feel more as a grind.

Failure
Dynamic event are dynamic, they scale with people. With a great meta event where people need to split in different way you split the zerg and it become less easy and people need to play together to avoid failure. Let’s say ther is 4 power source that need to be protect and if one fail the meta event don’t happen, you need to start over again at the start of the meta. That the kind of failure I would love to see.

Permanent LW
Just a short idea. I was writing before about season(6 to 10 episode/LW) Let say that if in every season(4 to 6 month) you add a new map. During that season you add meta event or any LW related stuff in that map. At the end of the Season, all that you have build can stay in that map. It’s still a LW cause we are expending Tyria , people who come back have new map, people who love those event can still do them…
So at the end of one year, GW2 could have expand of 2 or 3 new maps with full of new achivement and meta event! HOW HUGE THAT SOUND! Every other MMO should tremble just by that! Southsun Cove was a great idea and the Karka Queen meta event was a blast, I would have love being able to do it again and again, not a one time event. (I know there was problems with that LW but the idea was still a great one and you know already what didn’t work in that LW). It’s been a year since you add a new map, with everything you learn during this year, you are ready to make the magic happen and get it right! In fact, ToN could have been in a new map and it would be more stunning!

Players choose the next expedition
And just to make it even more CRAZY. Let say that we can choose wich map we want to expand as players by voting. There are 2 expeditions in Lion Arch but they need found so they can make it happen. One for the Crystal Desert and the other for the Magumma Jungle. People have 2 week or one month to vote for the NEXT Expedition/Season like the election we did this spring/summer. That would be Epic and remember for years!

Thanks for reading!

nethykins.7986:

I find such a disconnect with:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset.

…And…

BobbyStein.2315:

That’s not my decision to make. That stated, feedback regarding the cadence is useful and constructive to others so I think it’s good for people to tell us how they feel about the release schedule.

You think our feedback on that is necessary, but there’s no point, because it’s ultimately futile?

Just a shot in the dark, but my hunch is that perhaps what he’s hinting at and can’t say is that it has been mandated from on high at ANet that the head honchos don’t want to change the two-week timing. However, the community relations folks like Chris want us to be able to state our perspective in the hopes that our arguments as customers might get the head honchos to reconsider.

Customer relations folks are never allowed to indicate that there’s any sort of disagreement inside their company, even though we all know that no group of people always gets along seamlessly.

As I said, it’s just my gut reaction to something that appears contradictory.

nethykins.7986:

I find such a disconnect with:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Regarding Cadence of release: This is not something we plan to change in terms of timing and I wanted to make that clear from the outset.

…And…

BobbyStein.2315:

That’s not my decision to make. That stated, feedback regarding the cadence is useful and constructive to others so I think it’s good for people to tell us how they feel about the release schedule.

You think our feedback on that is necessary, but there’s no point, because it’s ultimately futile?

Some companies like to have CYA situations where even if they can’t do anything about said scenario, it at least helps that it was documented.

Believe me, I’ve seen this and yes it is frustrating even on the business side of it.

BobbyStein.2315:

That’s among the many things we discussed doing, but we currently have technical limitations preventing us from making such a drastic change because it would break Personal Story dependencies. Until we have a system in place that separates the timelines of the Personal Story and Living World stories we are limited in the kinds of changes we can show in the open world.

One of the things that confused and confuses me about the Living World development scheme as a whole is where the decision came from to try to take an MMO created and launched with a static design philosophy, and layer on a progressive storyline.

By the very nature of the game as designed you are shackled to inconsequential changes to the background and to the gameplay areas, and if the changes are inconsequential then what point is there in a progressive story? You’d be just as far ahead writing static content that is now and ever shall be just like in every other themepark MMO from EverQuest on down.

Weird situation.

Anyway – unless you do a 180 on the current development direction, you will have to break the static elements of the game to cast off those shackles. It’s going to have to happen to give the Living World any credence at all, so IMO it would be better to do it sooner rather than later, and completely rather than a little at a time.

The personal story is mostly instanced so separating that out wouldn’t be too terribly hard. Simply including a title card or graphic at the start of the major branches indicating the year the instance is taking place would be ok. Perhaps dating it by the Mouvellian Calendar and by X years before Zhaitan’s fall (yeah, it’s a spoiler – but seriously…).

A short instance could be cobbled together to explain that the glowy star thingies are “touchstones in history” or somesuch, and your character is experiencing the life and actions of the famous hero that reunited Destiny’s Edge. Say that they are an initiate in one of the orders and they are learning from their past examples. It’s not a “Personal” Story any more, but it preserves the existing content with a minimum of fuss and disruption.

The zones have certain dependencies related to the storyline that would need to be jettisoned if the story was to have a real impact on the area (I’m thinking the hearts in particular), but I’m equally thinking that the hearts were a half-measure (training quest-hub players to the DE system) that could probably be tossed if there was enough story in the zones themselves to make it obvious where the dynamic events are taking place.

I’d also personally recommend going a little more grimdark in the tone going forward. GW Prophecies is a more effective storyline experience precisely because it deals with a pretty desperate time in history. Even though the Dragons are just as much (or greater) threats than the Charr armies were, I just don’t get the same kind of feeling of danger or “last light in the darkness”. Might have something to do with all the festivals but it just seems like business as usual in most of the continent.

I guess the closest analogy for what I’m feeling would be that it seems most of Tyria is like North America in WWII. There’s a war on and we’re doing our part, but it’s really far away and more of a concept than a direct threat. I’d be more interested in the storylines if Tyria felt more like the UK during the Blitz.

Random thoughts on a Friday afternoon I guess…

I feel that the LS items should be based off of actually completing the story not acheivements. As it is now its a grind fest for acheivment points which can be done im a day. Also it seems to be just promoting champ farming. WvW acheivements I like the way those are set up and werer given enough time to complete them not 2 week, and then being oh god I have to grind these out to get my skin or item. I like how the LS started with flame and frost were it kept building up we had what like 4 months before that arc completed, and we didnt have any other stories to just pop put of no were on us. And me being a person that gets a decent amount of time to play, around 20 hours a week to play I still feel rushed to get the achievements and the items.

It seems my point of view is shared by many

1. Flame and Frost was the right way to introduce a LS. It was a build up to a major event – the Molten dungeon. Unfortunately it lasted only 2 weeks then disappeared completely. Newer players will never experience that content, which is a shame.

2. Content is too rushed. I often feel like I am chasing the game rather than playing it. It is fine to introduce content every two weeks as long as it is allowed to persist for 4 weeks or 6 or forever. Mad King, for instance, can still be played and achievements earned even though we are onto new content. Teq and the new TA are permanent, which is great!

3. There is so much lore to draw on in this game that it seems a waste to spend time on Scarlett and her merry minions. She is just too shallow and disconnected from the main plotline.

gidorah.4960:

nethykins.7986:

You think our feedback on that is necessary, but there’s no point, because it’s ultimately futile?

he is the head writer not the guy who decides the cadence. you want to direct your complaints at the cadence at chris who makes that decision.

I think you should look closely at the two quotes, and not just my question alone. Chris practically cuts the discussion on the cadence of release, while Bobby says it’s good to have the feedback on the cadence.
See the contradiction there?

@Timmyf, @Vick and @Atlas….(especially Atlas) I think you’re all right in your own way. All we can do is speculate, but in the meantime, it’s a pretty bum deal to hear that.

My speculation: As Colin had stated many times before. Player numbers dwindle after 2 weeks. They want to keep that “Patch day! influx” up as much as possible in order to keep player numbers up, perhaps to keep the suit’s happy by throwing them more positive game statistics at the end of each quarter.

I guess that’s business.

I have one request and it’s a fairly simple one; since the stance seems to be that the two week cycle will continue, may i at least have the ability with the user interface to disable the notifications pertaining to the current LW status? The little yellow Star in the top right is what I am referring to, I would greatly appreciate this.

Something that also needs improving are the scavenger hunts.

First there need to be clues about where the stuff can be found. By just saying ‘There are 24 items to find, somewhere near krait, in the entire world. Have fun!’ would have had me searching in Metrica Province for hours, if I hadn’t checked Dulfy first. For most players, it’s just not fun searching through entire maps, so they will use a guide (which ain’t fun either, but is way less time consuming).

Second, each item we search for should have meaning. The achievement is called ‘Historian’ but there isn’t any information on the shards directly. I guess we’ll see some reference to the shards when the next update goes live, but the Scavenger Hunt could be so much more if each item you find has a little bit of story behind it.

Having clues where to find the items, so I can actually search on my own, and then beig rewarded by some more info on the subject I find would do so much for this achievement category, it would actually become something that’s fun to do.

Hello,

It is hard to pick just 2 updates for most favorite and least favorite, becouse i enjoyed more then one a lot and more then one disappointed me.
For most favorite i am deciding between Bazaar of the four winds and Cutthrout politics. And its probably bazaar. Becouse it was full of fun. Nice new map full of hidden fragments (?) and new movement skills made its exploring great experience. And there was no frustration. Contens was not easy but there was no moment that would make me frustrated or that would be annoyingly repetetive. I just enjoyed everything and progres in archievments and rewards was comleted naturaly.
And the least? Back to school or tequatl. Back to school not becouse of Box, but becouse of changes it brought. After that i cant enjoy the game as i did before. And Tequatl had nice concept but it could be done much better in my opinion. And its story does not make any sence to me. We killed Tequatl before Zaitans death. How did he end up there after his death? But i must admit its nearly impossible to do such content flawless for first try. :-)

nethykins.7986:

@Timmyf, @Vick and @Atlas….(especially Atlas) I think you’re all right in your own way. All we can do is speculate, but in the meantime, it’s a pretty bum deal to hear that.

It certainly is, but all we can do as customers is list out why we like or not like something and either keep consuming or move on to something else.

A lot of this Collaboration sounds more like they want our opinion for the next arc since they have Scarlet going in a certain way.
Considering how this is their first attempt at creating an arc with a villain I’m just going to try and give as much feedback possible.

To ANet: It seems clear that what is needed when you make a villain (nemesis) isn’t so much the build up but the pay off. You guys are making a good game, a fun world, and you have so much lore to work from.
Build up, display, then expand, and finally resolve the arc of your villains or next big worlds shattering situation. The key is timing and pace, this one was a bit off, but hopefully with all this advice you’ll get it.

cesmode.4257:

I second this. I see more of these types of success/failure scenarios in the early zones and less as you move through the rest of the world. I think you could do the game wonders if you would add more layers of success and failure.

I third this. However, Arena Net has commented on their dynamic events prior to this:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/jubilee/I-don-t-like-this-update/page/4#post2581092

I think this is partially mistaken as their reward structure at the moment does not encourage doing dynamic events. However, even if it were to ,such as by removing champion boxes and pushing them to dynamic event success ¹; I think people would just return to farming patterns and game the system to most the most lucrative use of their time. Such lamentable observations about the state of MMOs were made by me and others in these posts (²,³).

I do not think it is hopeless, but it does entail making players pay for ignoring threats to the world or at the very least making it feel like our actions have meaning to the world. In my opinion we as the heroes of the realm have little responsibility to the realm. Imagine if threats that were ignored could grow and spread, much like the centaurs you describe, to the point that they own a zone. Friendly NPCs vacate those zones (preferably relocating in an adjacent zone temporarily), outposts/waypoints close, and the process starts a new in the next zone. Well known NPCs that represent the major conflict(s) from an invaded zone will head to the nearest governing racial city (e.g., Krytan zones head to Divinity’s Reach, Magumma Jungle zones head to The Grove or Rata Sum) where they act as emissaries for the conflict in that zone. Should the enemies hold it long enough they empower the adjacent zone allowing the conflicts there to escalate. Eventually, zones get invaded to the point they reach the gates of the major racial cities or the number of emissaries grows past a certain point, either could work. Vendors and trading posts inside those cities become uncertain about how safe they actually are due to the increasing unrest in the neighboring zone(s) and start closing. At this point the leader of the racial capital starts insisting on help and sending emissaries to Lion’s Arch. Refugees from the cities also start showing up in Lion’s Arch, destabilizing the economy and causing increased auction house fees and vendor unrest ⁴. The more racial capitals in disarray due to enemies at their borders the more refugees in Lion’s Arch and the bigger the consequences on Lion’s Arch.

This would be a huge amount of work and not be without problems (how to handle existing game rewards that are severely hindered by an invaded zone, like World completion). As I discussed in previous posts in this thread ⁵ I side on content that makes actions more meaningful rather than content that might cause some player conflict or prevent certain rewards, but I do not envy the position the developers are in when it comes to balancing players conflicting desires. Generally, I think “carrot-on-a-stick” content; like loot, map completion, and achievements should supplement interesting content, not become the content or prevent more meaningful events from taking place. If they are in the way of developing more world impacting content, then they should be reworked.

That’s just one way I would breath life into old zones and make dynamic event outcomes have more impact on the world.

¹ – Ideas to make players spread out in the world and do dynamic events

² – Does Arena Net Regret Dynamic Events?

³- Are we trading Dynamic Events for Rifts?

⁴ – Maybe, I’m not an expert on economies so I’m not so sure how this would work out. Just the refugees asking for help could be enough to move some players into action without actual economic impacts. I just find it odd that the world could be going to kitten and Lion’s Arch operates mostly as is.

⁵ – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development-Topic-Living-World

SirMoogie.9263:

cesmode.4257:

I second this. I see more of these types of success/failure scenarios in the early zones and less as you move through the rest of the world. I think you could do the game wonders if you would add more layers of success and failure.

I third this. However, Arena Net has commented on their dynamic events prior to this:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

Ive seen his post pop up many times in threads. What Ive always wanted to say in response to that was that I am not sure a big deal was made about the additional dynamic events that they installed. Im guessing they were tucked into the game in various places where people would stumble upon them randomly and not notice that they are new events. Honestly, if you ran through a zone that you might have been to only once, what are the odds that you experienced all dynamic events in the zone(other than maybe queensdale and maybe kessex where the DEs are easily repeated)? Theres a fat chance that players just didnt recognize a new event.

Regardless, did they simply add a bunch of DEs, raced to the forums to see that we were not posting about them and determined “Oh, well they dont like it, lets move onto something..hmm I had an idea. a Living world!!”

Also, Im not taking about adding NEW dynamic events. But even re-working old ones to make success or failure impactful. Have both of the outcomes kick off a chain. Not necessarily create entirely new DEs with their own mini stories, but add onto existing DEs too.

cesmode.4257:

Ive seen his post pop up many times in threads. What Ive always wanted to say in response to that was that I am not sure a big deal was made about the additional dynamic events that they installed.

I don’t think Anthony is completely wrong though. I don’t think most players would return to events even if they were more impactful, like you and I both want. Call me cynical, but I think most MMO players like collecting things (e.g., achievements and loot), gathering riches, and empowering their characters. So, even if they added consequences to dynamic events and incentivized them with better loot, I think the majority of players would still take the path of least resistance. Trackers would pop up for whatever farm chain proved to be most efficient and the zones that unfortunately didn’t make the cut for that farm chain would die off. I can even see it causing conflict, like in my Shadow Behemoth example in this post ¹.

Thoughts on handling this problem, if you agree it is one?

¹ – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development-Topic-Living-World/3129259

Favorite and least favorite? Alright, go!

Favorite: Bazaar of the Four Winds!

It’s been said several times in this thread, but I love everything about this update. The area was very unique compared to the rest of Tyria we have access to at the moment. A Cantha-influence market town/jump puzzle topped with a flying kite city is the kind of crazy creativity I like to see Anet do. The activities and achievements were fun and tied into the area nicely, we had new skills/abilities to play with, the election was an interesting spin on the living story and it was just a nice place to go to. I think one of the devs described it as “a map as jumping puzzle” and it turned out great. I really hope you return to creating vertical areas like it in the future. It’s something that GW2 does that other games in the genre don’t and it really gives a unique feel to things.

Another thing to consider about this update is that the story line of it not only ties into the GW1 lore (which everyone was freaking out about.) but it also ties into the general narrative of GW2. We know the story of Destiny’s Edge, and this update is a repercussion of their actions in the world. They failed, and the Zephyrites are basically reeling from the consequences. It’s a beautiful and sad place. That’s something else you guys do well, along with making amazing hellscapes. :X

But something to consider about the Bazaar is that it is structured as kind of a “lull” in the story. We took out the Molten Alliance, battled Karka, fought off the Sky Pirates, and then we had a nice break at a very unique vacation spot and had an election. I don’t think the Bazaar could be used as a template for the greater living story because of this. It’s kind of a “great filler episode.” But that’s a good lesson when looking at TV style story telling, you need episodes like that to let your characters flesh out.

Runner up: Shadow of The Mad King

I really think this should be your template for a “standard episode.” It had a nice lead-in with the eventual destruction of the lion statue, fun activities, a great little instance at the end and it built on itself through out the month until you had the show down with the Mad King himself. The Lost Shores also follows this template and outside of the final battle that I’m sure caused a chernobyl in your server rooms, I loved it as well. Even Flame and Frost kind of follows this template, it’s just spread out a bit too thin. Dat narrative pacing.

Also while the once in a life time events may have not gone over with the general public (I liked them personally. :X), using an instance upon map enter like you did with Tower of Nightmares would be a great way to bring those kind of scenes back in a more manageable way. Hope to see you guys attempt it more in the future.

Least Fav: Tequatl Rising

First off, love this battle! It’s everything we’ve been needing in challenging content. It could scale to a slightly smaller group, but I really don’t want this thing nerfed. We need some “kicked in the face” moments in this game and Teq is a good start. From what I understand it was made by the feature team and not the living world team, but I really think a little more narrative would have helped a lot here in smoothing over this addition to the game. I mean Rox is there to kind of say “Hey Tacquito’s gone crunchy!” but it doesn’t have much meat on it. I know explanations are supposed to come later, but I think a little more confused chit chat over what’s going on would have helped here to kind of build up the mystery vibe.

Grimthagen.6019:

The personal story is mostly instanced so separating that out wouldn’t be too terribly hard. Simply including a title card or graphic at the start of the major branches indicating the year the instance is taking place would be ok. Perhaps dating it by the Mouvellian Calendar and by X years before Zhaitan’s fall (yeah, it’s a spoiler – but seriously…).

I agree with everything you said, but this in particular made me excited for what they could do with a Living Story/Personal Story interface. Imagine if the interface were a timeline with event markers. Clicking a marker brought up a map of the location, some snapshots/artwork of what the area looked like during the event, and the ability to replay relevant cutscenes (or even replay the events themselves) .I don’t know why I’m so excited for a timeline, but I’ve always liked knowing when events described in stories occur.

So, i was beginning to wonder if we are ever going to get to take on any of the other the elder dragons? because after finishing Arah that’s it? the living story its cool in all but come on.

SirMoogie.9263:

cesmode.4257:

Ive seen his post pop up many times in threads. What Ive always wanted to say in response to that was that I am not sure a big deal was made about the additional dynamic events that they installed.

I don’t think Anthony is completely wrong though. I don’t think most players would return to events even if they were more impactful, like you and I both want. Call me cynical, but I think most MMO players like collecting things (e.g., achievements and loot), gathering riches, and empowering their characters. So, even if they added consequences to dynamic events and incentivized them with better loot, I think the majority of players would still take the path of least resistance. Trackers would pop up for whatever farm chain proved to be most efficient and the zones that unfortunately didn’t make the cut for that farm chain would die off. I can even see it causing conflict, like in my Shadow Behemoth example in this post ¹.

Thoughts on handling this problem, if you agree it is one?

¹ – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Collaborative-Development-Topic-Living-World/3129259

Oh dont get me wrong, I completely agree that it is a problem and possibly an un-solvable one. Before any CBT and after reading how content would be handled in GW2 (via DEs) I wondered this very topic. How will arenanet solve the problem of human nature? We will find the easiest and most lucrative path(s) and run them into the ground, ignoring all of the long or difficult events. I knew this would be a problem before the first CBT. I had hoped, or maybe I trusted or expected that Arenanet had a solution. Apparently not, because it runs wild in all areas of the game.

I dont know of a solution. Taking your Shadow Behemoth idea a step further: Should we fail to prevent him from being summoned, what if he wasn’t stationary? What if he then began roaming town to town destroying the towns in Queensdale. Im sure there will be incentive to stop him and defeat him, at least from the low level players. They need those heart events and NPCs!

Now you would factor in the eventual zerg train, and again, this is where things get tricky. How do you stop the people, who have no vested interest in Queensdale burning or if it survives, from “exploiting” an event for profit…maybe slowing it down so that they can milk every ounce of profit out of it?

Maybe the solution to this is not in the events itself, but the elsewhere. I hope Arenanet is not naieve to think that their game is devoid of grinding. Excuse the stereotype, and I mean to offend no one, but side from eastern MMOs, it is the most grindiest western MMO on the market today. Thats not even my opinion. Ask anyone on these forums, ask anyone on fansites or in map chat. Grind is a lot heavier in GW2 than in a game such as WoW or Rift.

So how is grind and these DEs related? Well, if you didnt require an obscene amount of gold to purchase a pre cursor off the TP(because chances of finding one via chest or drop are practically unheard of), maybe there is less need or value to having a lot of gold. Less reason to make sure you have mounds of it. Less incentive to grind mindlessly.

Im just thinking off the top of my head and I have nothing to back up the previous paragraph. But it is something to think about. Reduce the amount of grind(for gold and materials) in the game and I wonder if the zerg like mentality fades away a bit, thus making designing these dynamic events and thus Living World much easier.

Food for thought…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate if I’d stated that you were prioritizing release dates over quality. I get that you guys have every intention to release quality content. You’re all very passionate and committed to what you do, and you obviously want to create things that people enjoy.

However, allow me to make an observation. I’ve noticed that when you discuss future content or features (other than Living Story), you never commit to a release date. My understanding was that this is because game design can be unpredictable: things change, features may not work exactly as you intended, bugs may pop up, or it may simply take more time to polish a feature for release than you intended. And you don’t want to release content before it is ready, hence…you never commit to a release date.

Except for when it comes to Living Story.

Suddenly, every two weeks, just like clockwork, there it is. Right on schedule. How, then, can it be that your priority is on the quality of the release, when you are committed to releasing it on a specific date no matter what?

If you are saying that you now have the ability to make sure that content is ready by a specific date, then surely you have the ability to commit to dates for all your releases (not just Living Story). But of course, we know that this isn’t the case.

So while you may want quality, it certainly isn’t your priority. It can’t be. Not on a specific release schedule. It’s impossible.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.

I would be really interested to know what you guys are doing to meet my concerns regarding the cadence. Because I honestly have no idea how you can do that while simultaneously stating that the cadence will continue unaltered no matter what any of us says.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The cadence is something we discuss frequently. We are a very collaborative team and do our best to never sweep anything under the rug (-:

I’m curious as to what these discussions are like. When you are having these discussions, does it ever come up that many people are vigorously opposed to it? Or is it the impression of the team that the current cadence is both popular and desired? If so, do you have any metrics to back this up?

Finally, a simple question:

Why are you unwilling to adjust the release cadence? What is the reason that it must continue, no matter what anyone says? Can you at least help us understand that?

Id like to hear Chris’s, or any developer’s, thoughts on Phasing. Blizzard adopted this technology and technique years ago so it isnt a new concept and Id be surprised if you dont have the tech or expertise to pull it off.

Utilizing phasing could solve some of these issues.

For example, a player leveling could experience the wolrd, for example Kessex, as it was originally. Once he hits 80, via some quest line or something kessex turns into what it is today. To solve the issue of undead minions and the zhaitan talk in Orr, once your character has defeated zhaitan, these things change. Friendly NPCs no longer talk about if they can defeat zhaitan. They chant that they have! And the number of undead minions are reduced because you have defeated their master.

Thinking about phasing further, I cannot imagine why it isn’t utilized especially in a game like GW2 where open world content and dynamic content is the core.

Allow me to say one thing that isn’t aimed at anyone in particular.

“I believe that Anet hired a lot people who worked on other MMOs. They have no idea what Guild Wars is all about. And so they are stirring the GW2 ship in a very wrong direction.”

I believe that this is a really good educated guess. We can tell by how grind-ly the LS has become. They are all about farming 1,000,000s of candies for a mini. Farming 1,000,000s of apples for a back item. etc. This is very classical MMO design; Keep the players playing by forcing them to grind.

However little did they know, Guild Wars was designed to remove all grinding. It was designed to be a story and gameplay driven MMO. GW1 is, imo, the best MMO ever made because of that.

When game play and story is good, you don’t need to make the players grind. They will play the content, and then play it again with an alt character.

Alt friendliness, another thing that’s killing GW2. All these ascended gear is doing so much more harm than good.

You see, other MMOs focus on making one primary character. The players is supposed to throw everything into this one character. That’s all the player got. Guild Wars is not like that at all. GW1 is about trying all professions and see which one you like the best. It was one of the most alt friendly MMOs on the market.

Back in GW1 I was a primary Necro. But I also understand every other profession because I tried them all. I know all about ranger interrupts. I know all about front line warriors. etc. In conclusion, I know GW1 the game.

I cannot do the same in GW2 at all.

Based on how grind-ly and alt-unfriendly GW2 is, I can safely assume that Anet hired way too many people who worked on other MMOs and have no idea what Guild Wars is about.

If I speak the truth, these people better change their point of view and get with the program quick. Or they should be removed from Anet to prevent further hindrance to the masterpiece of the Guild War franchise. I played this game since GW1 beta for good reasons.

Chris, Bobby, Etc…

One really important thing I want to stress in all living story content (particularly when you start talking about consequences of failure) is to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE using scaling for the events. Or at least test them on the low population servers first. On my server, Southsun Cove is a no-fly zone because all the camps are constantly under Karka control because we cannot get enough people to clear them…all the temples are almost constantly under a state of Orian Control (except right after re-set when we try (and sometimes fail) to clear all but Balthazar and Grenth usually, since we don’t have enough people to clear those two most of the time). Tequatl is a non-event that has now also become a no-fly zone since it is always covered in the fish heads. And it was extremely difficult for many of my guild-mates to get the blood and madness event achievements because we couldn’t get enough people to kill the lich in the labyrinth.

Lately, the tendancy is to make boss’s with tons of hitpoints and devastating attacks to better fight against the “zerg” and these bosses seem to require about 30-40 people at the minimum to take down…please be considerate of the servers that cannot get that many people on one map at a time…(particularly after the first couple of days of the new LS…we can usually manage for a few days, but after that, people just avoid those things). The minute Kessex hills started, no one could take on the lich anymore in blood and madness, (heck we could barely beat the candy-corn king).

In everything you release….think in the back of your mind…can this be accomplished by the 10 people that are on a low-pop server on a weekday afternoon…because almost all of the content released in the last 3 months (since return to lost shore) has not been.

BobbyStein:

That’s among the many things we discussed doing, but we currently have technical limitations preventing us from making such a drastic change because it would break Personal Story dependencies. Until we have a system in place that separates the timelines of the Personal Story and Living World stories we are limited in the kinds of changes we can show in the open world.

Maybe you can’t kill the leaders of the playable races, but similiar to the meta-events with the unnamed skritt-king it should be manageable to install a DE-path with changeable politics using the neutral factions – like the dominion of the winds. Just let the tengu-emperor be assassinated, who resides in the heart of tyria, and you get a perfect political chaos with changing alliances.

(I wonder why the tengu do not mention the toxic alliance damaging everything – including their merchants – directly in front of their own home.)

minbariguy.7504:

Why are you unwilling to adjust the release cadence? What is the reason that it must continue, no matter what anyone says? Can you at least help us understand that?

My gut feeling on this is it has to do with marketing and promotion. It’s already been billed as a prominent selling feature of the game. To suddenly back-track on those claims would be difficult to substantiate on a PR level.

Now, regarding the concept of evolving DE’s, methinks Nike hit it on the head. Failure to accomplish a DE at the moment is a simple hard reset. It should, however, set into motion another DE with another two options depending on success or failure. This is a wonderful vehicle to tell the LS. Drop a patch note that there’s a new DE in an area, and as the DE chain progresses, it reveals more of the story actively.

What would make it even more believable, is if the two options weren’t necessarily “succeed” or “fail.” But rather, “you have to escort one of these two caravans—you can’t save both.” So there’s a sense of personal decision making that would play into it.

Now, the problem with this concept is that it’s still lending itself to zerg fests. Important DE’s are always zerg fests. Thus, introducing component DE’s (a la the invasion of Orr DE’s which I believe are done better than many others), would go a long way toward helping with this.

But the simple issue is that no DE should ever “end” upon completion or failure. There should always be a “next step.”

Tobias Valin.5893:

The only problem with that, timmyf, is that if you kill a dragon and his minions disappear how is someone who comes along 2 years from now going to experience killing that dragon? What you are suggesting is that the devs make content aimed at current players with no thought of future players or how to catch them up.

That’s currently one of the biggest problems with the Living World; the inability of brand new players to experience the stories. They play through the personal story, kill Zhaitan, and then are thrust into Nightmare Tower with no way of knowing who Scarlett is, where she came from, why she’s the villian, what she has done previously to make her a threat, etc… it’s like coming in to a TV show half-way through the season. Do you watch the remainder, or wait for it to hit Netflix so you can start from the beginning? Problem is, there is no Netflix for old content, so new players are simply out of luck.

I will counter argue: How can a child born in 1946 live though WW2?

He can’t. He is born after WW2.

Same thing with the Living Story.

A new player is born after certain events. So he can only read up on it and watch old videos (e.g. re-live though it by playing the mission, knowing full well it happened in the past) on it. He cannot experience it anymore in real time.

The world must change for this whole Living Story concept to work.

There is at least 2 more alliance ( one involving svanir and the other one involving separatists ) and a finale assault of Scarlet with the capture/death/disappearance of Scarlet in the same or in a last living story.
Then extension for a new Dragon or two (an alliance like Scarlet likes (liked) it)

NB : It’s pure speculation.

Hey Guys and Devs.

Good to see you are responding to peeps.

I’ve thought about Chris’s question and in conclusion of my “brainstorming” I found the question really odd. Why follow a TV series’s concept when you have a lot of cool video game series?
I’ve just finished CoD Modern Warfare series and still thought “kitten , that was still awesome…I’ll surely replay it in the future”. Cool story, you get to live it from different characters perspective and it’s just good as it is.(Ok, not that great, still don’t understand why they had to kill Sandman and his team but you get the point) And not to mention the epic moments for example when the Eiffel tower came down, or the Prypiat missions, discovering the “thought abandoned” city was fun.

You did similar with Guild Wars beyond, think about the wedding story when we played with Keiran for a few missions. Overall it was connected, well built up and you introduced a character who we met later in WoC(the assssin, sorry, forgot her name). I was actually sitting on nails because I couldn’t wait the next patch.
Now with these LW updates, I found myself not to care anymore because it didn’t make sense to me or because the story was kind of spread out.(I’m a lore geek on Guild Wars, really love it, but this player vs Scarlet and every bad guy in the world haven’t been so memorable(or I could haven’t made a deep impact on me))

That’s it for now, time to rest.

CHIPS.6018:

Tobias Valin.5893:

The only problem with that, timmyf, is that if you kill a dragon and his minions disappear how is someone who comes along 2 years from now going to experience killing that dragon? What you are suggesting is that the devs make content aimed at current players with no thought of future players or how to catch them up.

That’s currently one of the biggest problems with the Living World; the inability of brand new players to experience the stories. They play through the personal story, kill Zhaitan, and then are thrust into Nightmare Tower with no way of knowing who Scarlett is, where she came from, why she’s the villian, what she has done previously to make her a threat, etc… it’s like coming in to a TV show half-way through the season. Do you watch the remainder, or wait for it to hit Netflix so you can start from the beginning? Problem is, there is no Netflix for old content, so new players are simply out of luck.

I will counter argue: How can a child born in 1946 live though WW2?

He can’t. He is born after WW2.

Same thing with the Living Story.

A new player is born after certain events. So he can only read up on it and watch old videos (e.g. re-live though it by playing the mission, knowing full well it happened in the past) on it. He cannot experience it anymore in real time.

The world must change for this whole Living Story concept to work.

oooooooooooor you could just make an Asura to make a Time gate where you could go back an Instanced form of the event to redo it for archivements nostalgia hell even for skins. and it would totally not effect the living world out there so current LS would not have probs.

an MMORPG game cant stay up without expanding with your idea the game would NEVER expand anywhere if Anets plan is Pure LS.

Lets see WoW as an example: MILLIONS of players leave at the end of an expansion but when an expansion arrives MILLIONS come back one of the reason the game is still up and running.

With temp LS Players that leave don’t have a single reason not a SINGLE one to come back to the game after a month/year.

Also playing old content gives some realy nice nostalgic feeling when your boored old content makes wonders. im always doing it in other mmos when im bored and that also keeps me and allot of other players playing.

you know what I hear from the majority of players in different game forums that think that GW2 is good but they left it ?

they left bicous they aren’t seeing the game going anywhere content wise. one of their major reason.

im right now just standing on the fence with crossed fingers that they WILL implement them as replayable someway that don’t hurts the current LS if they do it this will be one of my main MMORPG and I start throwing my money in their face if they plan to continue like this I leave for good im just waiting for an answer that YES they WILL do it not just plan it but WILL do it.

nethykins.7986:

I think you should look closely at the two quotes, and not just my question alone. Chris practically cuts the discussion on the cadence of release, while Bobby says it’s good to have the feedback on the cadence.
See the contradiction there?

i dont see the contradiction to me it looks like bobby is saying i am not in charge of this decision but thank you for sharing and chris is saying i am in charge of this decision the answer is no. Maybe they can clarify.

minbariguy.7504:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We are committed to quality not quantity.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate if I’d stated that you were prioritizing release dates over quality. I get that you guys have every intention to release quality content. You’re all very passionate and committed to what you do, and you obviously want to create things that people enjoy.

However, allow me to make an observation. I’ve noticed that when you discuss future content or features (other than Living Story), you never commit to a release date. My understanding was that this is because game design can be unpredictable: things change, features may not work exactly as you intended, bugs may pop up, or it may simply take more time to polish a feature for release than you intended. And you don’t want to release content before it is ready, hence…you never commit to a release date.

Except for when it comes to Living Story.

Suddenly, every two weeks, just like clockwork, there it is. Right on schedule. How, then, can it be that your priority is on the quality of the release, when you are committed to releasing it on a specific date no matter what?

If you are saying that you now have the ability to make sure that content is ready by a specific date, then surely you have the ability to commit to dates for all your releases (not just Living Story). But of course, we know that this isn’t the case.

So while you may want quality, it certainly isn’t your priority. It can’t be. Not on a specific release schedule. It’s impossible.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

This said there is a lot we can and are doing to meet concerns regarding the cadence and really polish the positives we have already achieved in this area.

I would be really interested to know what you guys are doing to meet my concerns regarding the cadence. Because I honestly have no idea how you can do that while simultaneously stating that the cadence will continue unaltered no matter what any of us says.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The cadence is something we discuss frequently. We are a very collaborative team and do our best to never sweep anything under the rug (-:

I’m curious as to what these discussions are like. When you are having these discussions, does it ever come up that many people are vigorously opposed to it? Or is it the impression of the team that the current cadence is both popular and desired? If so, do you have any metrics to back this up?

Finally, a simple question:

Why are you unwilling to adjust the release cadence? What is the reason that it must continue, no matter what anyone says? Can you at least help us understand that?

This cuts right to the point and deserves a direct and serious answer. We have already seen lackluster content released because of the living story that could have used an extra month or so of polish. We hear you say one thing and do the opposite and it hurts your credibility.

cesmode.4257:

I don’t know of a solution. Taking your Shadow Behemoth idea a step further: Should we fail to prevent him from being summoned, what if he wasn’t stationary? What if he then began roaming town to town destroying the towns in Queensdale. Im sure there will be incentive to stop him and defeat him, at least from the low level players. They need those heart events and NPCs!

That potentially resolves the problem of getting people to engage him. However, I referenced this as another problem. I suppose I should have said what are your thoughts on the two problems I’ve raised. The other one raised is what about introducing player conflict by having dynamic events with multiple outcomes based on player choice.

What if one player wants one outcome and another player wants another? We already got a preview of this when they added champion loot boxes and fire elementals became the event to fail. People were actively harassing players trying to succeed at the events so they could get more boxes. Similar problems occurred with Scarlet’s invasion. Now these scenarios did have a loot conflict so it isn’t exactly synonymous with a scenario where we could prevent the shadow behemoth from being summoned (provided all rewards are created equally). However, I imagine some players would disagree, potentially to the point of harassing each other if one wanted to fight the really cool boss encounter and the other wanted to save the day.

The devs have stated this was a problem during development:

The team had to test the game to remove some elements that put players at odds with one another. “Originally when we had events,” Cartwright said, “we had events that had fail states and success states. We still have that, but there would be this event going on where there’s a [character] that’s gonna summon a big bad monster. And they’re on the way, leading up to it. And if you fail that event, a big monster spawns. And if you stop her, it doesn’t spawn. What we found is, some players want to see the big bad monster, and so they’re like, ‘Don’t do the event!’ But some players do want to finish and [stop] the monster, and so you have conflict. Now, some players are disliking each other. We started getting in the game and some people were like, ‘Hey, don’t do that.’ And so we said, OK, what did we do wrong? When you see another player, you should be like, ‘Awesome! I have another person here!’”

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/09/guild-wars-2s-subtle-mind-control-makes-me-actually-like-other-people/

While I’d really love such an organic world where player actions matter, even when such actions could influence whether to allow a boss to be summoned or not; it seems that to have a more positive community some choices will have to be left to the wayside. I think this where we can have a good productive discussion. What types of events would be good candidates for keeping a mostly positive community, while still giving consequences to player actions in the world?

Some comments stated that in Living Story too much quests are only done for looting champs or zerging for getting archievements and the story comes too short.

I think it’s human nature that people always do the most profitable with less efford as possible, which is looting now. Masses always will zerg for looting.

To change this a little bit, you could create a specific new type of quest in Living Story, that forces the single player to make a CHOICE with his habit EITHER to lot items OR to get a gratification like karma. Don’t give them both at a time.

Karma should be more than just another currency. That would make the world more living too. Let some NPC get angry or happy in response of the single players actions (or karma-level), so that they refuse to sell him items or change their item-list for a specific time.

So looting for profit wouldn’t be the only profitable way to play the game anymore, but people had the chance to do this, if they want to.

The problem with bosses spawning at the end of an event chain is that the bosses actually are rewarding, both in experiencing epic content and on getting more loot/xp/gold.

One possible solution would be to have multiple paths lead to the same boss, just with a different twist. The path where you failed an event could be harder/longer, requiring more time for the same end reward. Of course finding a logical story for having failure and success both lead to the same boss spawning might be a challenge.

A second solution would be to make people actually not want to have the boss spawning. The boss could have nasty influences on the area (summons by a Son of Svanir could unleash a snowstorm which gives lessened visability, perhaps random application of blind, a debuff like in the Snowblind Fractals etc.) or just have the Invulnerable buff for 15 minutes after spawning. Making it very hard to defeat might also work, with a bounty that increases over time to make sure the boss will be worth defeating eventually, but just not right after the failed event.