Guild Wars 2

Rainshine.5493:

None of this convinces me that with the current system I am ever likely to afford it. People who put more time into the game, who are more efficient than me, who play the market well — they should all get a Legendary much, much faster than me. But imo the big “endgame” of a game should not be unattainable to all but the absolute richest.

See my previous post, Rainshine.

There is some number N such that the price of a precursor cannot reasonably exceed the price of N crafted level 80 exotics; that number N is directly determined by the chance of getting an exotic from the Forge. Moreover, I suspect that this number N is probably less than 500, though I can’t be sure without knowing the drop rate.

In other words, if you farm up the materials for 500 level 80 exotics, the amount of money you get from selling those materials is pretty much guaranteed to buy you a precursor, unless the drop rate turns out to be even lower than expected.

Yes, you’d probably have better luck making those exotics and putting them in the forge – you might even get 2 or 3 precursors for that many exotics – but if you’re not willing to gamble, that’s entirely your decision. Other people will always be happy to do the gambling for you, for a price premium – think of it as insurance, if you will.

The point I’m making here is an important one, because it’s valid even in the case of hyperinflation – even if exotics were to rise to 2000g as the result of crazy inflation, the prices of the materials would rise with them, and so the guarantee I make above would remain valid.

Now, at current prices 500 level 80 exotics would set you back upwards of 750g, and I’m fairly sure that’s too high for a precursor, but the fact remains that the cost of a precursor cannot forever rise past your ability to obtain one – eventually, you are guaranteed to get one, as long as you spend enough time farming.

Cerise.9045:

azazil.9541:

Cerise.9045:

Alright fine, you guys are right, this new system is perfect the way it is, the old system where the chances of getting a base weapon with enough tries was more reasonable was terrible.

You win, lets encourage arenet to keep the changes, I’ll keep making hundreds of gold off this new system.

Good for you but are you sure you readed first post of this topic ? And if you are angry for it going to cut your earnings sorry bud but we are talking here for greater good not for personal story and gains.

My suggestions are for the betterment of the whole game, it would cost me hundreds of gold if my suggestions are used because it would kill my market and stop me from making easy money off base weapons. I just want the game to be better.

But if you want the base weapon process to stay dumb the way it is then great, I get to make more money this way.

The funny thing it was actually fine before the “bug fix”, it was nearly impossible to make money off it then without exploiting the bug.

Well if you readed my suggestions at first page and others I’m Just suggestioning “Precursors must be account bound with some type of recipes”.. and i guess and looks like we agreed on that.

And also looks like you confessed using exploits before patch for making money with selling precursors. How nice i feel like an idiot for playing honestly without using any bugs.

azazil.9541:

Cerise.9045:

azazil.9541:

Cerise.9045:

Alright fine, you guys are right, this new system is perfect the way it is, the old system where the chances of getting a base weapon with enough tries was more reasonable was terrible.

You win, lets encourage arenet to keep the changes, I’ll keep making hundreds of gold off this new system.

Good for you but are you sure you readed first post of this topic ? And if you are angry for it going to cut your earnings sorry bud but we are talking here for greater good not for personal story and gains.

My suggestions are for the betterment of the whole game, it would cost me hundreds of gold if my suggestions are used because it would kill my market and stop me from making easy money off base weapons. I just want the game to be better.

But if you want the base weapon process to stay dumb the way it is then great, I get to make more money this way.

The funny thing it was actually fine before the “bug fix”, it was nearly impossible to make money off it then without exploiting the bug.

Well if you readed my suggestions at first page and others I’m Just suggestioning “Precursors must be account bound with some type of recipes”.. and i guess and looks like we agreed on that.

and also looks like you confessed using exploits before patch for making money with selling precursors.

I didn’t even know about the exploit until the bug was fixed. How are you suggesting I used it?

Cerise.9045:

*"it would kill my market and stop me from making easy money off base weapons.

The funny thing it was actually fine before the “bug fix”, it was nearly impossible to make money off it then without exploiting the bug."*

This are just your words…

No one is saying you did it intentionally, Cerise, but exploiting is still exploiting even if you didn’t know it was an exploit. Of course, if you did it unwittingly I don’t think it should be held against you, though I do think that if ArenaNet had the ability to undo the effects of such problems with the game it would be a reasonable thing to do.

azazil.9541:

*"it would kill my market and stop me from making easy money off base weapons.

The funny thing it was actually fine before the “bug fix”, it was nearly impossible to make money off it then without exploiting the bug."*

This are just your words…

Yes, it’s the truth, it was nearly impossible to make money off the base weapons if you got them legitimately. It was possible to make a lot of money off them if you exploited the bug.

Nowhere did I say I was making money off exploited weapons. I got the weapons legit so I wasn’t making money off them.

Reading comprehension.

azazil.9541:

*"it would kill my market and stop me from making easy money off base weapons.

The funny thing it was actually fine before the “bug fix”, it was nearly impossible to make money off it then without exploiting the bug."*

This are just your words…

He/she is saying it’s easy to make money now (presumably by buying and selling precursors), not before now.

In any case, if Cerise is making money at the moment in that manner, then that’s mostly the fault of whoever is willing to sell precursors to Cerise at a low price, and the others willing to buy them at a high price.

No one is forced to trade in this game; you buy low and sell high only with the willing co-operation of whoever you are trading with.

Well it’s my mistake if i got it with this way but it sounds like that, anyways sorry if i’m wrong about it.

Glad that got cleared up, one of the important things to my guild is ethics. We don’t exploit in any aspect to the game and we’re proud of it.

I explained what I did to make money before this here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/How-do-people-have-so-much-money/first#post353133

I still think it’s better the way it was before. Clover RNG is fine because the odds of getting clovers is high enough that after enough tries the chance of not getting the clovers is negligable. The RNG using 4 lvl 80 weapons before the update was harsh but still gave you a reasonable chance for a base weapon after trying enough times.

Now the chances are so low, I’m not very good at math but I’m sure someone can calculate the chance of not getting one after 2000 tries, I’m sure that number is high enough to cause worries.

Either way, not much point in arguing it anymore, everyone has made up their mind about it. I believe the situation is bad for the game, others believe it’s fine.

I’ll come back to this issue if we ever get enough data to see what the chance to get a base weapon is per attempt, and then have someone to calculate what the chance is someone will get one with 1000 attempts or 2000 attempts. Right with a relatively data pool the chance to get a base is 0.5-0.6% per attempt so someone who can do math good can figure out what the chance is is you take a sample size of 1000 or 2000 but the chance may not be accurate due to lack of data.

Shogoki.2085:

Rainshine.5493:

And if there are people out there willing to put hundreds of (real) dollars into gems and buy it at ridiculous prices, I’m SoL. The supply appears limited enough that unless I am in the top earning percentile (or have plenty of disposable income that I am willing to throw into virtual goodies) it is out of my reach.

None of this convinces me that with the current system I am ever likely to afford it. People who put more time into the game, who are more efficient than me, who play the market well — they should all get a Legendary much, much faster than me. But imo the big “endgame” of a game should not be unattainable to all but the absolute richest.

Yes, people who have more gold than you (whether they’re savvy at earning money on the Trading Post, or are just don’t mind pumping hundreds of dollars into the game to convert into gold) are going to be able to get things faster than you. You could say the same of any item in the game, not just legendary precursors.

There’s no way to stop this, unless you don’t allow people to buy gold (but ArenaNet has to make money somehow, and there’ll always be illegal gold selling too, regardless…) you are always going to be behind people who have money to waste in the game. This is a fact you just have to deal with.

Right, which I acknowledged and is fine by me. Please actually read what I’m typing if you’re going to respond. Moving on …

Endgame by definition is the carrot on a stick once you get to max level that keeps you playing for months and months after there’s nothing else to do in the game.

Yes, and all I’m asking for is an endgame that does not in large part work on an RNG system. It’s old, it’s dead, it’s not fun (when a specific outcome is desired), it’s not innovative, it doesn’t require being “the best” (lol at that whole trollbait post by Wah), it doesn’t even have to require effort. All that need be required is luck, a high tolerance for tedium and repetition, and/or a really large real-life disposable income.

As I said elsewhere, Anet understood the downsides of an RNG system with dungeon armor. People could easily get exotics via other methods, so the reward there is the skin. They understood that playing the same content over and over and hoping you didn’t totally waste your time is an outmoded way of thinking, but they got super lazy and slapped it in twice for the legendaries.

lackofcheese.5617:

See my previous post, Rainshine.

Sincerely, thank you very much for the detailed explanation, instead of just going “lol then buy it” as everyone else in the thread has. Economics has never been my strong point.

That said, it STILL pisses me off that they copped out with RNG.

Wahaha.7938:

If the prices on precursors keep going up and you can’t afford one – it means you’re not good enough to have a legendary. As Legendary items they are meant for the BEST players. They are NOT a long-term goal for half of the population. If you disagree with this… then too bad I guess? You don’t get to say how this game should be. And the current situation is how it should be. As stated by some other people in this thread, legendary items should be indeed legendary (you know the definition of the word legendary right?) and not “half of the players in the game own an item with the legendary tag”.

HOWEVER, given the fact that precursor supply isn’t limited, more and more of them will be created in the game. Eventually the best players will all have a legendary and at that point the mediocre players will be able to afford precursors. So in a way it still is a viable long-term goal for many people.

Did you really just post that the best players in the game are those that can afford the pre-cursor, especially when there is a method implemented that allows real money to be converted to in-game money?

You should think about that for a second. Players are allowed to voice their opinion, it is up to the developers to decide whether or not their opinions correlate with their game design.

The best players are the ones who have been PvPing the entire time, and probably some of the hardcore dungeon speedrunners.

Rainshine.5493:

Yes, and all I’m asking for is an endgame that does not in large part work on an RNG system.

Legendaries are not the only “endgame” in this game. WvW, sPVP, and doing dungeons for fun are all part of the endgame, and you can be maximally effective at those things if you just get full exotics.

Rainshine.5493:

It’s old, it’s dead, it’s not fun (when a specific outcome is desired), it’s not innovative, it doesn’t require being “the best” (lol at that whole trollbait post by Wah), it doesn’t even have to require effort. All that need be required is luck, a high tolerance for tedium and repetition, and/or a really large real-life disposable income.

As I’ve just demonstrated, the fact that these items can be traded on the trading post means that you can get around the RNG system if you choose to do so. Yes, you’ll pay a price premium for doing so, but I don’t see a huge problem.

As for tedium and repetition, that’s a complaint that can be levelled at the PvE aspect of every MMO ever made. Without a never-before-seen system that is either player-driven, or created by an artifical intelligence, the PvE content in an MMO is bound to get tedious and repetitive after a couple of hundred hours.

If tedium and repetition is an issue, don’t play an MMO, or focus on PvP content.

My patience with this Age of Entitlement crowd ended about 3 identical topics ago.

Here is what most people are asking for: “We want really friggin easy legendary weapons.” 16g and 100k karma for a legendary precursor? Hell, why don’t we just make it free if we’re going to devalue it that low.

No.

You don’t get to log on and play however the hell you want and get a legendary within a month. Why? Because then everyone would have a legendary within a month. Everyone who devotes just as much time as you or more, would be running around with a legendary. I would have had mine weeks ago.

If your typical response to a particularly difficult task is “this is too hard, I’m going to complain to someone until the task becomes less difficult”, then you will not, and should not, ever obtain a legendary. If that is how you approach a hard task, then you do not deserve the satisfaction of navigating the task creatively such that you achieve where others have failed. If you want to give up, then fine, but stop trying to project your own shortcomings onto everyone around you.

To people saying this is the endgame: No, this is what you chose the endgame to be. There are plenty of other options for an endgame, such as dungeon running for armor sets, karma farming for armor sets, named exotic weapon crafting, WVWing, tPvP, leveling/gearing alts, or exploring. There was no guarantee in the Terms of Service you would be able to craft a legendary. Just like there is no guarantee if you play any other game you get to achieve what the top players achieve. You don’t get to participate in international tournaments in CS just because you bought the game. You don’t get to join the top raiding guilds in any other MMO just because you bought the game.

You don’t deserve a legendary just because you bought the game. Or because you casually farm the game. Or because you think you do.

The reason why legendaries are so high in demand right now is because they are actually rare and unique (a positive quality that has been lost with many recent games), and the people who are making them put in the time and effort because we expect them to continue to be rare. If they aren’t rare and amazing looking and set me apart from everyone else around me, then why the hell would I have put in so much effort to obtain something that has identical stats to a weapon that would have cost me 1/10000th of the price and effort??

Answer: I wouldn’t have gotten a legendary if I knew they weren’t always going to be rare, something that Arenanet actually did promise us.

So here it is in short: Arenanet promised us extremely rare legendaries. They did not promise that everyone would be able to obtain them, no matter how badly they wanted it. In fact, promising that legendaries would be both extremely rare, yet easily obtainable for most people who casually played this game, would be entirely oxymoronic.

For Anet to make these weapons more easily obtainable in any way than they currently are would be to break that promise for all of us who went through hell and back again to craft these weapons so that we could actually make our character unique.

P.S. For anyone who mentions “luck” in the context of an MMO, where thousands upon thousands of trials are occurring every hour this game is up, you have no clue what you are talking about. RNG is the only way you can effectively manage the creation of these weapons in the long run. If you don’t have any knowledge of statistics, you really have no basis whatsoever to criticize the outcomes of an RNG system.

And stop accusing Linsey of hiding crap from you. The devs in this game have been more forthcoming and helpful about mechanisms in their game than any other dev team I’ve known. The proper response to a dev (or anyone for that matter) giving you free information that you request is “thank you”, not accusing them of supply “half-truths”.

The Age of Entitlement is upon us.

deathTouch you’re arguing with people who don’t exist

Celestea.4105:

Did you really just post that the best players in the game are those that can afford the pre-cursor, especially when there is a method implemented that allows real money to be converted to in-game money?

You should think about that for a second. Players are allowed to voice their opinion, it is up to the developers to decide whether or not their opinions correlate with their game design.

Yes I did. There are a few ways of judging how “good” a player is. That can be wealth, pvp rank (which doesn’t actually show how good you are) or pve skill (there is no hard pve in this game). Alright, sure: Legendary weapons are intended for those who can make enough money to afford them. If you have a lot of money it generally indicates a lot of work put into the game. Now, yes you can buy gems and get tons of gold for no in-game effort. That is indeed a flaw, but there’s nothing you can do about that. A legendary requires over 300-400g without the precursor. People can still buy that amount of gold with gems.

This has been stated many times in this thread:

The precursor prices are so high because people are buying them. If no one was able to afford them the price wouldn’t be going up. So if there are people that can afford them, it just means that those who can’t aren’t rich enough to have a legendary.

What people here still don’t get despite being told numerous times, is that if the precursor required some kind of skill challenge, or time spent, it would still have to be hard enough so that only a very small percent of the population would be able to get them. Most people complaining don’t actually care about the way the precursor is obtained. They complain about rng? There is a 100% reliable way to get one without rng. They just want an easier path to the legendary because of self-entitlement issues.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/No-Diminishing-Returns-on-the-Mystic-Forge/first#post358876

deathTouch.9706:

I say if people want to believe there is DR on the MF despite a topic started by a dev that states definitively that there is no DR on the MF, then let them.

Let them cheat themselves out of opportunities the MF provides. More money the rest of us can earn because of it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/No-Diminishing-Returns-on-the-Mystic-Forge/first#post358876

deathTouch.9706:

I’ve made roughly 260g from crafting over the past 4 days.

Profits are there. You just have to find them, and creative ways to cut costs.

I see your point from your other posts deathTouch.9706… So basicly you are just after your own profit not for public.

and

Cerise.9045:

deathTouch you’re arguing with people who don’t exist

+1 …. Exactly bud..

azazil.9541:

I see your point from your other posts deathTouch.9706… So basicly you are just after your own profit not for public.

There you go with the entitlement again.

What do I owe you?

Nothing. I owe you nothing. And anet owes you nothing.

In fact, I gave you a huge piece of information saying there is profiteering to be made in crafting, something most people seemed adamantly determined could never be profitable under any circumstance whatsoever.

What have you done for me or the rest of the community that is even remotely useful?

Your own words about it and as you said you are just after…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/No-Diminishing-Returns-on-the-Mystic-Forge/first#post358876

deathTouch.9706:

I say if people want to believe there is DR on the MF despite a topic started by a dev that states definitively that there is no DR on the MF, then let them.

Let them cheat themselves out of opportunities the MF provides. More money the rest of us can earn because of it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/No-Diminishing-Returns-on-the-Mystic-Forge/first#post358876

deathTouch.9706:

I’ve made roughly 260g from crafting over the past 4 days.

Profits are there. You just have to find them, and creative ways to cut costs.

so please stop trolling for your own good.. and think about public and macro. Ah and i’ll not answer to your posts after this. You showed yourself very clear.

Try making a point rather than posting two completely unrelated posts.

I’ll try to divine your meaning from your post though and offer a response.

If people want to choose to ignore a devs comment, then why shouldn’t they lose money?

Despite how well I can convince myself that my car will fly if I drive it off a cliff, does it change the actual outcome when I drive my car off the cliff?

Does this make the gas attendant at the gas station liable for supplying me with the gas I used to drive my car off the cliff?

My point in those posts is this: If you want to blindly ignore reality, that’s fine. Don’t blame me or anyone else but yourself in the end.

I find it really odd that I can’t find a single legit video of a precursor popping out of the mystic forge.

Is there any out there, can anyone provide a link?

lackofcheese

Legendaries are not the only “endgame” in this game. WvW, sPVP, and doing dungeons for fun are all part of the endgame, and you can be maximally effective at those things if you just get full exotics.

I should perhaps have said PvE endgame. Running all the dungeons are fun, but I’m not going to do them over and over and over “just because.” I’ll happily go with friends and guildmates, but it ends there. I only like a couple of the weapons and all the armors are, imo, ugly.

I would actually consider WvW my main endgame, but there is a large percent of the population that will never touch PvP…and for those people, legendaries are the endgame.

lackofcheese

As I’ve just demonstrated, the fact that these items can be traded on the trading post means that you can get around the RNG system if you choose to do so. Yes, you’ll pay a price premium for doing so, but I don’t see a huge problem.

If tedium and repetition is an issue, don’t play an MMO, or focus on PvP content.

…Why are you still posting as though we aren’t in agreement? I acknowledged your last post already. I can get it without RNG, sure — but it’s still a terribly lazy way to go about gating legendaries by the devs.

To really be “legendary” in the bragging rights sense, they shouldn’t be rare just because. They should be rare because an inordinate amount of skill is required to get them. Not time, and money, and RNG.

As for GW2, it was supposed to innovate the boring, repetitive content. Anet lauded how a game without a subscription model didn’t require long grinds designed to gate content and keep people playing longer. What happened to that?

EDIT:

deathTouch

If they aren’t rare and amazing looking and set me apart from everyone else around me, then why the hell would I have put in so much effort to obtain something that has identical stats to a weapon that would have cost me 1/10000th of the price and effort??

How about because you actually like the skin?

This is the attitude I’ll never understand, placing value on rarity alone. How unsatisfying that must ultimately be, because it comes down to a ton of work centered on the assumption that other people think you’re cool/special/amazing.

One thing I’ve learned, is that people are way, way more interested in themselves than they are interested in anyone else. Right now people are all “omg legendary let me see blah blah” because … well…they don’t even know what they look like. When that “shiny new” factor wears off and almost no one even breaks a stride when they run past you with it equipped, what then?

Do things for yourself, not for what other people will think of you. I can guarantee, they’re thinking 100 times more about themselves than they’ll ever think about you.

Can i ask ? Whats wrong with Legendary Precursor Recipe ( not so easy to craft but with enough satisfaction ) and Account Bount Weapon ?

Ok maybe some players can’t sell it at TP for their own profit and pocket but ppl can craft their own weapons with same time with current way.

There is a alot of suggestion on this topic ( included my suggestion at the very first page of topic ) for how to craft Legendary Precursors with recipe.

And ppl acting so aggressively. Hey we are not talking about creating or changing Legendaries. It’s just about Legendary Precursors. But i guess ppl forgetting how hard to make it after getting Legendary Precursors.

You can’t start way to hard quest with impossible. ( Don’t tell me i have x etc weapons in my bank or my guild is so rich or i’m so rich )

I can pay good amount of money to A.Net if i enjoy with the game but so sorry not to Players or Gold Sellers.

Yea there is a way to get it with current way. You can buy from TP ( Player or Gold Seller). You can try with xxx with xxx weapons for nothing or you can wait for Random Worl Drop like a mad. or you can buy it from Gold Seller websites.

But there is a simple solution. Make it Account Bound so it will cut all arguing. Bound it to real in-game recipe so ppl can trust they can get it no matter how need to hard work for it.

I can understand some ppl getting angry cuz their profits will cut and they can’t get golds. ( i don’t wanna say that but all we know some players also selling their golds and items to gold sellers for real bucks. )

Am I really stupid for not using that cheats and bugs really ? You know on reddit and other couple of wesites good amount of members / users gaved good enough info about Legendary Precursors bug. But some players wont use it. Why ? Really we are stupid or we just wanna play this game clean and enjoy around with everything ?

Anyways also we can be sure we will cut Gold / Item Sellers way to profit from it.

At the end A.Net will win, Players will win and so sorry poor Gold Sellers.

azazil.9541:

Can i ask ? Whats wrong with Legendary Precursor Recipe ( not so easy to craft but with enough satisfaction ) and Account Bount Weapon ?

Let’s say Anet wants to keep legendary weapons very rare, like they should be. Do you understand that a recipe for the precursor would be so hard to make that only a very small amount of people would be able/willing to complete it? And if that’s the case, how is it different than farming enough gold to buy it from the TP? Ok you’re going to say “your money doesn’t go to random people”. It really doesn’t matter and you shouldn’t care about that. And if that’s the only reason to change the precursor, why would anet do it when they have a working system right now?

@Wahaha.7938 Did you read my post till end before answer first question ? Since it’s not a real question and it answer itself in same post or why did you not answer whole post anyways….

Ah and before please read again first post of this topic too since its why we are talking about..

Ah and i must add i will / wanna craft Eternity but not with this way….

I wanna spend my time in game with playing but without gambling or paying someone with huge sum of money or my time except A.Net oneway or another.

Since Legendary Precursor is 355 bucks in gold sellers and 350 bucks in TP.. What a coincidence ??? !!!!

There is a link fo Eternity if you wanna check it…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternity

and the last think i wanna say before leaving this area for a while please listen this cover for Fear Not This Night from Taylor, Lara, and Malukah..

Peace… This is just a game for fun…. Azazil out for a while…

Dint see any and i did alot of looking / research.

Lots of video’s of people trying but they always seem to come when u dont expect them.

Ive had 2 so far, The Legend And The Lover.

I have tryed alot of crafted lvl 80 rares of which i had nothing but some random exotics.

The 2 ive got are both from 4 – LVL80 Exotics, it took quite some time and money tho, but in the end it payed up. when u get like 30-50 Gold just start buying cheap LVL80 exotics. ( +- 1G / 1.25G each )

I’m still going at it ill do my best to record the next one.

Before the patch I got a lot base weapons by simply throwing in a lot of level 80 rares that I bought for cheap off the trading post.

After the patch this isn’t really possible anymore because of the DR. I only got 2 base weapons after the patch because of this. I got both of them through a combination of buying exotics from the trading post, crafting exotics when the materials are cheap, and using the mystic forge to forge exotics from rares(only works a few times before DR hits). After this I wait at least 24 hours for the DR to clear up and then I throw the rares in the forge in batches of 36, I feel like this is a safe enough number before the DR kicks in but gets me through all my exotics at roughly the same pace I’m getting them each day. If you’re using the forge to try to get the base weapon, don’t use it to turn rares into exotics on the same day, always keep 1 day minimum between doing these 2 things.

Before the patch I focused only on dawn and dusk and got a good amount of each because I could throw an unlimited amount of rares/exotics into the forge each day without worrying about DR. Now that I have to limit myself so much I’ve only gotten a The Lover and The Legend. I already sold them unfortunately. I’m currently trying to get The Hunter, I can’t do any more attempts today because I’ve already hit the DR on the forge, but I’ll record my attempts tomorrow and upload them to youtube if I get it.

Do you have a number of exotic you used in total to get thoes base weapons? Atm ive used 280 exotic (all shortbows), without any result. Starting to think that is not ment to be

I know its not THAT many exotic.

Rainshine.5493:

Why are you still posting as though we aren’t in agreement? I acknowledged your last post already. I can get it without RNG, sure — but it’s still a terribly lazy way to go about gating legendaries by the devs.

I’m not so sure that we are in agreement.

Most people here, including you, have been calling for a fixed recipe, but what I’ve been arguing is that a recipe with a similar average cost wouldn’t really make much of a difference – either way it’s going to be a grind, although with RNG you might also get lucky.

Now, if your argument is that obtaining a legendary shouldn’t be based on grind, I can understand that point and I can agree – but it’s an entirely different point to what has been the main focus of most of these threads, which have been complaining solely about RNG.

However, making a system where a legendary requires “an inordinate amount of skill”, as you propose, is much easier said than done. At the very least, it’s not something I’ve ever seen in an MMO.

Rainshine.5493:

As for GW2, it was supposed to innovate the boring, repetitive content. Anet lauded how a game without a subscription model didn’t require long grinds designed to gate content and keep people playing longer. What happened to that?

Getting to level 80 and full exotics isn’t that long a grind. Since legendaries are entirely a visual element, you’re not forced to continually grind in order to be competitive in WvW or PvE. That is a problem in many other MMOs and I think GW2 does a fine job of solving it; the difference between having optional grinding and mandatory grinding is rather a big one.

Linsey has quite specifically said the Mystic Forge is not affected by DR, so I remain doubtful of there being any.

@deathTouch
Are you Clint Eastwood by any chance? Because you’re talking to an empty chair.

Why do some people just refuse to understand what we’re complaining about? All we want is some kind of price stability. The easiest way to do that would of course be a set recipe even if it costs the same as the current precursors on the TP that would make all the difference because we would know EXACTLY what we need to pay for it. That’s the reason no one is complaining about the rest of the legendary recipe even though it’s an insane amount of grind.

Stop assuming we want things to be cheaper, stop assuming we’re not willing to put in the effort and for crying out loud stop assuming that the economy is some magical system that always fixes itself!

The economy (the real economy as well as the ingame one) can in fact be manipulated, exploited and worst of all broken. Just look at all the other mmos, usually it’s the inflation that gets it. Admittedly Anet has some serious gold sink methods but the precursor prices are still inflating and that’s not good for the game.

All we want is some kind of price stability. Can you understand this word? STABILITY? It doesn’t mean cheaper, it just means stable and not drastically changing. I want to know that I can take a 1 month break from the game and not come back realizing that getting a precursor has now tripled in cost. Is that too much to ask for?

Also, if you think we got it bad, what’s someone who’s just getting into the game now going to do? Hey, you didn’t play since headstart? You can kiss your hopes for a legendary goodbye because they’re not even PvE. They’re economy based PvP. Go to the gem store or go home, there’s no way you can compete this late into the game when there’s such a low supply for the precursors.

lackofcheese.5617:

Most people here, including you, have been calling for a fixed recipe, but what I’ve been arguing is that a recipe with a similar average cost wouldn’t really make much of a difference – either way it’s going to be a grind, although with RNG you might also get lucky.

If you really think there wont’ be a difference then just let us have the fixed recipe. If people are still complaining about it after that, then I for one will be on your side defending it.

280 exotic shortbows? I think it’s time you just bought the precursor.

I’m still going to try putting exotics into the forge myself though. It would be great if we could get more stats out there and see if we can find an average amount required.

Yes i know i should buy/have bought it, but for me now its just about beating the kitten mystic forge

lackofcheese.5617:

Linsey has quite specifically said the Mystic Forge is not affected by DR, so I remain doubtful of there being any.

Devs have been wrong about the game before, it probably means there’s just a bug in the game that they’re not aware of.

Oh and I forgot something…

Clovers…

for the RNG haters, clovers have RNG on em too, I’ve thrown in three sets of the 10 recipes to be rewarded with 37 vicious fangs, 25 orichalcum, and 10 clovers.

So for the very unlucky, clovers could prove to be annoying as well.

@Windklinge: If RNG mechanics are so broken, bad, and unfun, why has EVERY game that ever had a random chance of something happening used RNG.
Old school 20 side die rolls
randomized loot properties ( accurate halberd of vanquishing anyone? )
set loot percentages for boss’ loot table that are given a random roll…from a certain MMO that is rather popular that just recently released an expansion.
That same MMO has sooo much RNG in it. Which is my point, EVERY game that uses some standpoint of randomness has to use RNG.

I understand that many believe that the RNG is too low for precursors. Instead of whining and complaining, propose a new system. If RNG is so broken, how would you design a replacement for a system that has been in place since games were created?

The designers had to limit the number of precursors so they set the % very low…

Has anyone thought about comparing the time it takes to gather the ~130 gold for a precursor with just farming and selling everything you find to make gold? Instead of burning resources and throwing them in the forge, sell everything (that you don’t need for your legendary)

I’m not a fanboy, I simply understand how randomness works. Perhaps you should take a trip to Vegas and see how you handle IRL RNG. There’s a reason the house always wins.

The game does have the rating of gambling, this is why i think? it’s fine the way it is, however if they want to reduce the price of legendary pre’s then all they need to do is increase the drop rate of exotics or rares. The more exotics and rares in circulation the cheaper they will get and the more chances people have in the forge.

The recipe idea is silly, it’d drive the resource prices through the roof and it’d cost a lot more.

I would also like to say, keep this thread constructive. If you have an argument as to why a set recipe is a better idea, or have another solution(s) please give a constructive and concise reasoning as to why. Don’t just say you want it.

LOL @ all the people that come in here, and simply go “Entitlement entitlement entitlement!” over and over without actually having any sort of point.

If you even understood that word properly you might realize how ridiculous it is to keep claiming that people that paid $60 are not “entitled” to experience the content in the game.

Precursors are content in the game. If anything “entitles” anyone to the “right” to experience it, paying $60 to ArenaNet sure does, irrespective of how much time it might take to get, everyone is “entitled” to play and experience it assuming they put in the effort.

Right now though the Mystic Forge is a moving goal post, forever receding into the infinite distance, forever unreachable (due to Godskull cheaters inflating the prices and ArenaNet nerfing the Mystic Forge out from under us).

No, it is not and cannot be a forever receding goalpost. I don’t know how many times I have to say this. There is an upper limit to how high the price of precursors can rise relative to the prices of level 80 exotics, and that upper limit is directly tied to the drop rate.

Or are you suggesting that ArenaNet is going to nerf the Mystic Forge on a weekly basis until the chance gets to 0.0000000001%? They might, if they’re just plain evil, but in that case I’d strongly recommend against posting on these forums, because if you do so they might get annoyed and throw a personalized stealth nerf at you.

Archer.6485:

Why do some people just refuse to understand what we’re complaining about? All we want is some kind of price stability. The easiest way to do that would of course be a set recipe even if it costs the same as the current precursors on the TP that would make all the difference because we would know EXACTLY what we need to pay for it. That’s the reason no one is complaining about the rest of the legendary recipe even though it’s an insane amount of grind.

As I said on the previous page, there is an upper limit on the price. The price of a precursor won’t exceed ~500x the price of the materials needed for a single exotic (although, that is of course a high estimate).

Archer.6485:

The economy (the real economy as well as the ingame one) can in fact be manipulated, exploited and worst of all broken. Just look at all the other mmos, usually it’s the inflation that gets it. Admittedly Anet has some serious gold sink methods but the precursor prices are still inflating and that’s not good for the game.

First of all, there doesn’t seem to be a serious problem with inflation in this game. Note that one or two items increasing in price does not constitute inflation, in the usual economic sense of the word – that would only apply only if it applied to most of everything in the game.

Also, on what grounds is a rise in precursor prices “not good for the game”? I don’t really see an inherent problem. If anything, they were too cheap before, and now they’re much more reasonably priced. In fact, some of the less wanted precursors can be had at bargain basement prices, like Venom at 17g.

Archer.6485:

All we want is some kind of price stability. Can you understand this word? STABILITY? It doesn’t mean cheaper, it just means stable and not drastically changing. I want to know that I can take a 1 month break from the game and not come back realizing that getting a precursor has now tripled in cost. Is that too much to ask for?

Not everyone wants stability. I, for one, think lack of stability is a lot more fun. Besides, I don’t think you’d be complaining if the price was going down, would you? If so, then stability isn’t really what you want anyway.

Yes, it absolutely is a moving goal post. There is nothing that says you will hit the average within 1000 tries, or even 10000. You could easily be “unlucky” and never get a precursor, even over thousands of tries.

So it absolutely is a moving goal post and is 100% absurd. Your opinion about it is irrelevant.

Sorry bro you are not entitled to a legendary because you didn’t exploit or paying ridiculous gold in TP, despite paying $60 for this game.

First of all, I didn’t say it wasn’t a moving goalpost, I said it couldn’t recede forever, which is an entirely different point.

It’s also funny that you would say something like “your opinion about it is irrelevant”, when when most of what you’ve said in this thread has been simply your opinion – e.g. “So it absolutely […] is 100% absurd”. So your opinion is relevant, but mine isn’t? Or maybe most of what’s being said here is irrelevant, but you simply don’t care and are happy to continue an irrelevant discussion?

Nor is that simply my “opinion”. If you hadn’t noticed, I backed up up with an argument which I haven’t seen anyone respond to.

In any case, even you couldn’t trade with other players and had to rely solely on RNG, the moving goalpost analogy is flawed. An RNG-only situation would be a stationary goalpost that you didn’t move towards most of the time.

I think finding out the odds would be a good idea; we don’t necessarily need the devs to tell us those odds either.

If we get tens of thousands of trials done across hundreds of players and share the information, we could easily get the statistics we need. Also, working together to get that information would be a lot more fun than just being told the numbers, I think.

Sorry bro you are not entitled to tell Arena-net who and who isn’t entitled to a legendary. Designing an aspect of the game for a → Massively <- multiplayer game that is only relivant to a ridiculously small portion of your player base is quite simply dumb game design. Especially when put a lot of effort in playing up and advertising that aspect.

Is it fun?

“If our model was subscription based, we might be spending all this time racing to add as much filler content as possible to keep players chasing the carrot. Instead, as content designers with the goal of creating fun, we get to spend this time refining our content and making it amazing.” – let time decide :P

To: Celestea.4105

I dont think there is a average amount really.

The first one i got was “The Legend” ( staff ) i think in total i did +- 150 try’s ( x4 = 500 )
However the second one i got was “The Lover” i got this only 3 days after The Legend.

I dint really keep track of try’s anymore but i can tell you it was a HELL of allot less then on the first one.

I have had guildies trying it with lower lvl exotics and they way passed 150 try’s and havnt seen a thing yet, so i’m guessing 80’s have a better chance, but again cant be sure both mine came from 4 LVL80’s

Of course there’s an average.

Some precursor traders in this thread. Sad.