Guild Wars 2

I would just like to know what is the point of time gating celestial crafting via charged quartz crystals. I would understand if the weapons weren’t soul/account bound, but since they are, is this just time gating for lulz? I understand celestial is a boost in every stat, but it’s pointless to time gate something. All you’re doing is slowing down something inevitable if someone really wants it. It’s artificial game-play time, and quite discouraging. Could you please consider removing this senseless mechanic on this particular instance at least? (Or allow the purchase of charged quartz crystals via TP).

Seems strange that they allow the ascended bolt of damask and deldrimor ingots to be sold (both containing a time gated ingredient), but not charged quartz.

That’s my point exactly.

I don’t really understand the reasoning behind time gating anything in a game without a sub fee.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

I don’t really understand the reasoning behind time gating anything in a game without a sub fee.

Fixed that for you.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

I don’t really understand the reasoning behind time gating anything in a game without a sub fee.

To prevent market shocks.

Vol.7601:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

I don’t really understand the reasoning behind time gating anything in a game without a sub fee.

To prevent market shocks.

How can something have a market shock if all the chain from the time-gated item to the end result cannot be sold?

I understand this answer applies to Damask and others like that, but how does it apply to celestial? This is not even considered a very “desirable” combination for most people at this point.

murven.7581:

Vol.7601:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

I don’t really understand the reasoning behind time gating anything in a game without a sub fee.

To prevent market shocks.

How can something have a market shock if all the chain from the time-gated item to the end result cannot be sold?

I understand this answer applies to Damask and others like that, but how does it apply to celestial? This is not even considered a very “desirable” combination for most people at this point.

Sorry, I indeed was thinking in terms of stuff like damask and mithrillium.

Here is an excellent and in-depth explanation from the man himself on time gates (go read the copy-paste in middle of thread). You don’t have to agree with him, but at least understand his perspective.

http://qq.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1t26yg/cdi_isaiah_cartwright_on_time_gates/

Thanks for the link Vol. Interesting read.

While they try to claim a big part of the reason for the time gating is to keep the gap between casuals and hardcore players small I believe the real truth lied in these two facts that were brought up:

•Exploits (Many time gates are there to avoid exploits)
•Overflow issues (the way our tech works without a time gate, you can use overflows to reset your timer)

It’s probably just the best way they can come up with to combat some of these issues instead of coming up with a better solution.

And these statements:

“This is why we create places for people to farm for all types of things. We like people who farm a lot, we are just always trying to make sure farming doesn’t blow out an item so much it’s no longer worth farming as it sort of defeats the whole reason to farm.”

Those really made me chuckle. This is off topic for this post, but I don’t see how they are creating places for people to farm or encouraging farming at all. Just the opposite. There really is not good spot to farm T6 materials any more. Any where that dropped them have been heavily nerfed.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

•Exploits (Many time gates are there to avoid exploits)
•Overflow issues (the way our tech works without a time gate, you can use overflows to reset your timer)

If “exploits” are such a problem that time gates are necessary, perhaps the whole QA process needs better management, in order to trap those exploits before these crafting processes are brought to the game.

Time gating is there to ensure you log in every day so that doing so becomes a habit. It has zero gameplay value.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Time gating is there to ensure you log in every day so that doing so becomes a habit. It has zero gameplay value.

That is it, no deeper meaning. They want you to login everyday or several times a week.

Ok so maybe I can sort of, in some twisted masochistic way, understand time gating celestial to prevent “flooding” or “bloating” but the obvious flaws in that remain:

• It’s account bound…the only thing you’re “bloating” is your own inventory
• The stat combo is mediocre, it is neither good nor bad….imagine that, a multi-stat combo that’s a balance of all stats being fairly neutral….hmm…
• Trying to “keep the gap small between hardcore and casual” cannot be accomplished by something that in no way can be used against a casual player when the item is:
  * account bound
  * not superior to any other stat combo
  * the materials for it are no less available to casuals than hardcore even without the time gating

Which pretty much brings us back full circle. There’s simply no need for this. Maybe at the beginning when celestial was brand new, but it’s creeping up on a year old now. Time gating on it- at least the exotic version anyway- is simply not needed.

Quartz is in competition with other resources, it only comes from crystals.
The ascended trade-able items all use up a larger amount of other resources.

Rouven.7409:

Quartz is in competition with other resources, it only comes from crystals.
The ascended trade-able items all use up a larger amount of other resources.

Quartz (both versions) also drops from wintersday gifts.

On Topic:

Time gating and accound binding charged quartz was introduced as a test run for ascended crafting, which followed later later last year.

Personally i dont see a good point anymore as well to keep it time gated now but it would be unfair to players who went through the time gating before.

Wanze.8410:

Rouven.7409:

Quartz is in competition with other resources, it only comes from crystals.
The ascended trade-able items all use up a larger amount of other resources.

Quartz (both versions) also drops from wintersday gifts.

(…)

True, but it’s no substitution for anything (edit: by this I mean other T6 fine materials otherwise used in crafting). I only brought this up because I don’t think ascended materials and the quartz can be compared directly. If quartz would become tradable – do you think there might be at least an initial rush? Currently I am holding onto mine, but I likely have more then I’ll ever need.

I’m not necessarily against it but we may want to consider what can happen long term and short term with such a change (?).

Rouven.7409:

Wanze.8410:

Rouven.7409:

Quartz is in competition with other resources, it only comes from crystals.
The ascended trade-able items all use up a larger amount of other resources.

Quartz (both versions) also drops from wintersday gifts.

(…)

True, but it’s no substitution for anything (edit: by this I mean other T6 fine materials otherwise used in crafting). I only brought this up because I don’t think ascended materials and the quartz can be compared directly. If quartz would become tradable – do you think there might be at least an initial rush? Currently I am holding onto mine, but I likely have more then I’ll ever need.

I’m not necessarily against it but we may want to consider what can happen long term and short term with such a change (?).

If they make it tradeable, even if they keep the time gate, it would still be way under the crafting value of ~20s because there is so much excess of it in the economy.

During the first days of Wintersday, all gifts wrongly dropped charged crystals all the time, so there is a large surplus of it from there.

I opened 10k wintersday gifts during those days and iirc, i got like 450 charged crystals from it. I trashed one stack and kept the other.

Ok, so everyone would pick it up to create and potentially salvage “cheap” exotics, right?

Rouven.7409:

Ok, so everyone would pick it up to create and potentially salvage “cheap” exotics, right?

No.

Even if you get the quartz at 1 copper, you would still have to fork out around nearly 5g for ore, wood and ectos.

Mhh, I would disagree, because if you are crafting anyways, be it only to level, I know I would use the quartz instead of the other T6 items that I might have another use for in the long run. Add to that your guess that they will be cheaper… ?
The nearly 5g cost are there regardless.

Rouven.7409:

Mhh, I would disagree, because if you are crafting anyways, be it only to level, I know I would use the quartz instead of the other T6 items that I might have another use for in the long run. Add to that your guess that they will be cheaper… ?
The nearly 5g cost are there regardless.

Good point but you are forgetting that you need to buy the recipes for each weapon/armor individually as well. if you check the prices on those, its not a cheap way to lvl.

Wanze.8410:

(…)

Good point but you are forgetting that you need to buy the recipes for each weapon/armor individually as well. if you check the prices on those, its not a cheap way to lvl.

Hah, yes!

Perhaps the whole dynamic (around quartz) will change once the bazaar returns, including the time gate.

There’s no point now. IMHO it was originally a test but once ascended armor was introduced the time gating should have been removed.

If they want to keep the gate, what I suggest they do is flip the binding. Make the regular crystals account-bound, and make the Charged ones sellable. This creates a better market for people who want to speed up the process of making them, and gives people who have multiple stacks of them a slightly better purpose. I gave away 500 Quartz Crystals to a friend so he could spend the next 20 days to make 4 items, which I would have gladly just made for him myself with my 100+ Charged Quartz.

Plus, changing it would fit with the Ascended materials: the minor product is account-bound, but the end product isn’t, but then the crafted product is account-bound again.

The time gate is crazy if you need it to make ascended pieces.

The crystals are the biggest time gate for the wupwup heavy shoulders.

After the incoming crit damage nerf to celestial, it will become a lot less attractive to craft.
Right now a full set of ascended celestial armor adds 19% crit damage, while a full set of ascended berserker armor adds 17% crit damage.

After the change to ferocity, the berserker set will have 235 ferocity which is supposed to be equal to the 17% crit damage before the change.
The celestial set will end up with 147 ferocity, which then will roughly equal 10% crit damage.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Time gating is there to ensure you log in every day so that doing so becomes a habit. It has zero gameplay value.

I’ve given the gating a lot of thought, because I hated it at first, too.

I agree with your assessment regarding Charged Quartz, but not with regard to the ascended materials. The major difference for me is whether or not the gated material is tradable.

IMO, there is no validity to Charged Quartz being totally isolated from every other fine crafting material through time gating. I think this was a misstep on ANet’s part, and I think they are acknowledging it (indirectly) by giving us alternate ways of acquiring CQ through other methods (like the Wintersday gifts).

With ascended materials like Damask being sellable, the idea of reducing the gap between hardcore and casual (referring to Izzy’s post on Reddit that someone else linked in this thread) doesn’t appear to be directly substantiated. However, the time gating does introduce a redistribution of wealth.

Hardcore players with excess gold can sidestep the time gating by buying the gated materials, which means they are paying a premium to have their BiS gear immediately. Casual players who don’t need or care about having ascended armor right away can sell their gated materials for a premium, making it an easy source of gold for players who might otherwise have a low income rate.

Honestly, as long as the gated materials are tradable, I have no problem with the time gating. It just makes the gated material into a more valuable market than it would’ve been otherwise. However, having the gated material be account bound is a mistake.

Vick.6805:

Hardcore players with excess gold can sidestep the time gating by buying the gated materials, which means they are paying a premium to have their BiS gear immediately. Casual players who don’t need or care about having ascended armor right away can sell their gated materials for a premium, making it an easy source of gold for players who might otherwise have a low income rate.

This would be true if it wasn’t for the fact that the current prices of damask make the profit of selling it so marginally low that casual players prefer to use it anyway. The profit does not jutify postponing your ascended armor. This happens because ascended armor is forcing everyone who wants to have it to spend lots of gold in leveling crafting, so you have a lot of people who can produce damask, making it easy for all those people to produce it when they are done with their ascended pieces, again having a negative impact on the casual player compared to the hardcore player.

If hardcore players could chose to buy it all instead of leveling the craft discipline, then the prices of damask and ascended leather would be much, much higher, because more people would skip leveling the craft.

So even if this was designed to help the casual player, in the end it didn’t have the desired effect because crafters cannot do anything with what they learned after they are done with their armor and weapons.