Guild Wars 2

How many of you hate this crap as much as I do? I can’t stand it.

I never put any LFG requirements whenever I post anymore other than “no 1-shotting lupicus.” I still have to frequently remind people not to do it, and often times I’m responded with confusion.

In my opinion it’s just as bad to do it as it is to skip Lupicus, in the sense that it makes it pretty obvious that the player is more than likely too much of a terrible gamer to bother learning the boss. There are exceptions, I know… I know… but most people who pug these days that I’ve encountered all assume to do it. And in my opinion people who do it don’t deserve the daily. People who do it on a regular basis are more than likely too terrible to kill him without it.

Ugh, I am sick of being paranoid and frantically trying to keep him immobilised for phase 1 just in case somebody pushes him to the wall and ignores what my LFG said. >_>

And I am disappointed that GWSCR validated this as a legitimate tactic, like… wtf.

It’s so obviously unintended to be able to instantly kill him when phase 2 begins with literally nothing other than a reflect skill placed at the origin of his projectiles… I don’t have a problem with reflects themselves, but I disagree with anybody that says it’s not exploiting something obviously wrong. I get it, “clever use of game mechanics” and loopholes with the rules, but I don’t agree with it being a legitimate tactic to fight him. By my own personal definition of what cheating is, this definitely is a good example of it.

Feel the need to rant because even though I posted an LFG saying not to do it, some kittenlord guardian pug still blew him up the second phase 2 started. I am also apparently unethical for trying to kick him for it, and nobody else seconded my vote despite having gone out of my way to prevent it from happening. Lupi wasn’t aggroed on me, so I couldn’t prevent him from being pushed to the wall.

Rage. Quit.

/rant

It’s indeed quite sad to see PuGs unable to do it without the WoRsploits, I pray everytime that he Shadow Walks to the NPC. Alternatively you can just play the guard and do a normal WoR instead.

We all accept the risks and uncertainty that comes with puggies when we post in the LFG… nothing is set is stone.

I’d find it highly amusing to watch Lupicus blow up, since I’ve never seen that trick before, but then I suppose it’d get boring quickly just like everything else.

Better luck next time and may RNGsus heap his blessings upon you. :3

I’d feel like a hypocrite completely agreeing with you, but yeah it’s lame. I know I’ve done it in the past for multiple reasons, mainly though if we’re struggling a fair bit and I just feel like making the new players I’m with freak out and ask “ok… wtf just happened?”. Though, now I can solo him, so… doubt I’ll be doing it again, instead I’ll just solo it while they watch

I understand that Lindbur, but because of it I think it’s necessary that they take action by invisible walling the top of the wall or whatever. It’d still be possible to goat from the outside portion in case anybody likes to goof around, but yeah. I’d just hope for the best and pray that they don’t make the projectiles unreflectable/unblockable as it’d totally kitten guardians/mesmers.

As somebody that plays in EU, it’s pretty bad that seemingly 80-90% of all the groups I come across do this.

While I do agree that it’s cheesy and takes the challenge factor out of the fight completely, you have to understand that most people look at dungeons as merely a way to turn a quick profit.
By putting yourself in their shoes you quickly reach the conclusion that there’s no point in spending hours mastering everyone of the 3 phases of the encounter when you can just cheese it so easily.

I’m afraid that people that afford PvE the respect it deserves are a dying breed.

I understand it but that doesn’t mean that I accept it. As I stated in my OP, people that do this don’t deserve the daily just like the people that skip all of the bosses before light orbs don’t either.

The latter I can deal with because that’s people doing things in their own instances away from me, but this…. directly impedes on my own enjoyment of the game.

It bothers me too.

If you’re on a Warrior, you should definitely invest in a mace with a superior sigil of paralyzation (main hand mace on lupi… so good!). If you’re on an Ele, apparently a well-placed/timed swirling winds can also prevent the 1-shot. I am unaware of any other classes that can prevent the 1-shot. Should you succeed, expect all of your pugs to promptly die, or start ranging and thus get him off the wall for you.

Since my rng is awful and everytime I’m in the group lupi will shadowstep to the npc it’s not much of a problem for me, but yep, it’s lame. If npc is dead just range a bit in p2 to unwall him and hope for the best.

Zui.9245:

It bothers me too.

If you’re on a Warrior, you should definitely invest in a mace with a superior sigil of paralyzation (main hand mace on lupi… so good!). If you’re on an Ele, apparently a well-placed/timed swirling winds can also prevent the 1-shot. I am unaware of any other classes that can prevent the 1-shot. Should you succeed, expect all of your pugs to promptly die, or start ranging and thus get him off the wall for you.

Engi and hope for the other side of the RNGesus

Something that I have tried before was purposely baiting out a shadowstep, just like the NPCs do. It has worked a few times ^^

Huh. So even you guys have a line with these things.
There’s not much you can do about people ignoring the LFG title, beside playing with your own friends.

I do it. Why? Because it’s fun. Also, I love exploiting.

Zui.9245:

I am unaware of any other classes that can prevent the 1-shot.

cough hylek poison cough

frifox.5283:

Zui.9245:

I am unaware of any other classes that can prevent the 1-shot.

cough hylek poison cough

That prevents the entire phase though, and is not much better since he will only do his Phase 1 attacks.

I agree, but its not just noobs doing it (i’ve had one instance where there was somebody from one of the elite guilds that insisted on doing it). I cringe every time I see a guard or mesmer now. I used to mainly join other people’s group, but now I find myself making my own post much more often (simple post “p1, no exploits”). If I do join a group with a guard or mez (unless its one I know will fight legit), I ask before I even go in the dungeon if they are planning on fighting legit. Fortunately, I often tend to have aggro in phase 1 and will either not push him at all or push him away from the wall. If they do an invisible wall, they’ll have to make sure they do the whole area, or somebody will just find a spot they missed and it will become the new standard to push him to that spot to exploit. I still think the best option is to make him shadowstep to the middle of the room just before using that AOE.

Miku, why so casual?

Step 1. Paralyzation sigil.
Step 2. Skritt bottles.
Pricey, yet priceless.

Lupi is half of the reason why I even do Arah in the first place and trivializing the fight is boring. Once I refused to do it in a pug and the guardian was moaning about how “lots of people have no idea how guardians work”.

Never done it, never will. I think it’s cheap and takes the fun out of the fight.

It’s not an exploit since it doesn’t misuse any mechanics, it’s just a clever use of them. And by clever, I mean the first one to figure it out was clever. Beyond that, it’s just cheesy.

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

Its funny. But i understand some people dont like it as it trivialises the fight.

No Pulse.2967:

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

^^It’s no more an exploit that FGS was. That said, I didn’t really like FGS and I don’t like this, wonderful thing is I can choose not to do it.

That said, I was looking to get some lupi practice in on my thief, just a minute ago I saw a p3 group going, mesmer, guard, guard… nope not even gonna try.

If I had gone through all the trouble to design Arah as soon as I realized this was happening I would have made some sort of band-aid fix to prevent it while I worked on a better solution. I have too much self respect as a gamer to use such a cheesy tactic that may not technically be an exploit but its an exploit. Looking at the speed of dungeon fixes in the past this will never get fixed, and one of the last bosses that required skill will remain a joke.

No Pulse.2967:

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

You’re not really putting it at the source though, you are putting it at a specific point in the terrain to create a result the developers clearly didn’t intend. For that reason alone its an exploit, just not an official one.

It also isn’t about the damage scaling with his power, its about how this special place allows the damage to bypass his phase mechanics where he should go invulnerable.

What may happen is WoR will get the same treatment as feedback and only reflect X projectiles.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

No Pulse.2967:

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

You’re not really putting it at the source though, you are putting it at a specific point in the terrain to create a result the developers clearly didn’t intend. For that reason alone its an exploit, just not an official one.

It also isn’t about the damage scaling with his power, its about how this special place allows the damage to bypass his phase mechanics where he should go invulnerable.

What may happen is WoR will get the same treatment as feedback and only reflect X projectiles.

Wasn’t that exact same argument used for the FGS issue.

“you’re clearly using the terrain in unintended ways making it an exploit”

And as far as phase skipping, didn’t we see that again with the FGS 7s kill someone did by timing it with his animations to prevent him from changing mid rush or something like that? Or isn’t it similar to doing a large attack right before 50% on Brie?

Again, I hate the trick, but I don’t see any solid arguments why it is an exploit but some of the other things int he past aren’t or lets talk current and that new way of centralizing damage on those IB4s and what not?

Dramen Maidria.1034:

No Pulse.2967:

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

You’re not really putting it at the source though, you are putting it at a specific point in the terrain to create a result the developers clearly didn’t intend. For that reason alone its an exploit, just not an official one.

It also isn’t about the damage scaling with his power, its about how this special place allows the damage to bypass his phase mechanics where he should go invulnerable.

What may happen is WoR will get the same treatment as feedback and only reflect X projectiles.

You use terrain to put it at the source because the source is otherwise too high in the air. So what it is unintended? Pushing Lupi to the wall? Dropping reflects on top of the wall? Isn’t everything in bounds of game mechanics and thus intended?

No Pulse.2967:

Dramen Maidria.1034:

No Pulse.2967:

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

You’re not really putting it at the source though, you are putting it at a specific point in the terrain to create a result the developers clearly didn’t intend. For that reason alone its an exploit, just not an official one.

It also isn’t about the damage scaling with his power, its about how this special place allows the damage to bypass his phase mechanics where he should go invulnerable.

What may happen is WoR will get the same treatment as feedback and only reflect X projectiles.

You use terrain to put it at the source because the source is otherwise too high in the air. So what it is unintended? Pushing Lupi to the wall? Dropping reflects on top of the wall? Isn’t everything in bounds of game mechanics and thus intended?

So one shotting the jungle wurm was intended? Also look at Malrona, Lupi might end up getting the same treatment if this gets too out of hand.

Alquinon.2957:

So one shotting the jungle wurm was intended? Also look at Malrona, Lupi might end up getting the same treatment if this gets too out of hand.

Using exploits is obviously unintended. But if something is unintended, it doesn’t mean it’s (or was) an exploit. You draw the wrong conclusion there.

No Pulse.2967:

Using exploits is obviously unintended. But if something is unintended, it doesn’t mean it’s (or was) an exploit. You draw the wrong conclusion there.

I’ve never said it’s an exploit, and many people here don’t consider it as an exploit. But it is almost for sure that it’s unintended (like the examples I listed, they both involve reflecting), and what’s more it takes all the fun out of one of the few fun bosses in the game.

Alquinon.2957:

No Pulse.2967:

Using exploits is obviously unintended. But if something is unintended, it doesn’t mean it’s (or was) an exploit. You draw the wrong conclusion there.

I’ve never said it’s an exploit, and many people here don’t consider it as an exploit. But it is almost for sure that it’s unintended (like the examples I listed, they both involve reflecting), and what’s more it takes all the fun out of one of the few fun bosses in the game.

Ugh. Let me paraphrase it then. It was not a bugfix, but just a nerf.

No Pulse.2967:

Alquinon.2957:

No Pulse.2967:

Using exploits is obviously unintended. But if something is unintended, it doesn’t mean it’s (or was) an exploit. You draw the wrong conclusion there.

I’ve never said it’s an exploit, and many people here don’t consider it as an exploit. But it is almost for sure that it’s unintended (like the examples I listed, they both involve reflecting), and what’s more it takes all the fun out of one of the few fun bosses in the game.

Ugh. Let me paraphrase it then. It was not a bugfix, but just a nerf.

And what’s stopping anet from “nerfing” Lupi?

Alquinon.2957:

No Pulse.2967:

Alquinon.2957:

No Pulse.2967:

Using exploits is obviously unintended. But if something is unintended, it doesn’t mean it’s (or was) an exploit. You draw the wrong conclusion there.

I’ve never said it’s an exploit, and many people here don’t consider it as an exploit. But it is almost for sure that it’s unintended (like the examples I listed, they both involve reflecting), and what’s more it takes all the fun out of one of the few fun bosses in the game.

Ugh. Let me paraphrase it then. It was not a bugfix, but just a nerf.

And what’s stopping anet from “nerfing” Lupi?

Nothing. They are just slow when it comes to dungeon changes.

Alquinon.2957:

No Pulse.2967:

Alquinon.2957:

No Pulse.2967:

Using exploits is obviously unintended. But if something is unintended, it doesn’t mean it’s (or was) an exploit. You draw the wrong conclusion there.

I’ve never said it’s an exploit, and many people here don’t consider it as an exploit. But it is almost for sure that it’s unintended (like the examples I listed, they both involve reflecting), and what’s more it takes all the fun out of one of the few fun bosses in the game.

Ugh. Let me paraphrase it then. It was not a bugfix, but just a nerf.

And what’s stopping anet from “nerfing” Lupi?

Coding more or less from what I understand.

If they make it not reflectable it’ll be not blockable and that would really ruin a lot of what I think are intended strategies (dodge + Blocks) for that portion of the encounter.

They are scared of the widespread griefing mentioned.

http://gfycat.com/FilthyEagerDotterel

Fairly certain you can sacrifice your camera and prevent pushing?

RemiRome.8495:

They are scared of the widespread griefing mentioned.

http://gfycat.com/FilthyEagerDotterel

Fairly certain you can sacrifice your camera and prevent pushing?

That is the single most trollish Lupi video I’ve seen, I mean I’ve seen some stuff with him, but my god… what a jerk.

RemiRome.8495:

They are scared of the widespread griefing mentioned.

http://gfycat.com/FilthyEagerDotterel

Fairly certain you can sacrifice your camera and prevent pushing?

That…would kitten me off so bad, lol.

I’d oneshot the kittener on the next attempt for sure. He’d deserve it that time.

Wethospu.6437:

Miku, why so casual?

:<

Idk.

But this is lame.

I also abhor it. Was it intended? Most likely not. Is it an exploit? By the definition of the word, it is not. Is it cheesy? Absolutely. Personally, I do my best to push him away from the wall when I first enter the room, no matter the pug. To each their own though.

Jerus.4350:

That is the single most trollish Lupi video I’ve seen, I mean I’ve seen some stuff with him, but my god… what a jerk.

dlonie.6547:

That…would kitten me off so bad, lol.

I’d oneshot the kittener on the next attempt for sure. He’d deserve it that time.

To be fair it wasn’t Lupi’s fault just the thief roleplaying.

Was laughing so hard (warrior died).

Jerus.4350:

Dramen Maidria.1034:

No Pulse.2967:

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

You’re not really putting it at the source though, you are putting it at a specific point in the terrain to create a result the developers clearly didn’t intend. For that reason alone its an exploit, just not an official one.

It also isn’t about the damage scaling with his power, its about how this special place allows the damage to bypass his phase mechanics where he should go invulnerable.

What may happen is WoR will get the same treatment as feedback and only reflect X projectiles.

Wasn’t that exact same argument used for the FGS issue.

“you’re clearly using the terrain in unintended ways making it an exploit”

And as far as phase skipping, didn’t we see that again with the FGS 7s kill someone did by timing it with his animations to prevent him from changing mid rush or something like that? Or isn’t it similar to doing a large attack right before 50% on Brie?

Again, I hate the trick, but I don’t see any solid arguments why it is an exploit but some of the other things int he past aren’t or lets talk current and that new way of centralizing damage on those IB4s and what not?

And FGS was changed to remove that use, it just took them too long to get around to it, but Anet has been historically slow with things like that all the way back to GW1. Exploit has more than one definition, which is why I separated this from Anet’s official definition that can get you banned. No one creates content with effects like this as part of their design, but the more complicated the system they work in the more ways it can happen. This is why a dungeon team is necessary, they correct these things quickly instead of what we end up with, people getting used to using broken mechanics then getting upset when they are suddenly changed after 6 months or more when they should have been changed within a week.

No Pulse.2967:

Dramen Maidria.1034:

No Pulse.2967:

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

You’re not really putting it at the source though, you are putting it at a specific point in the terrain to create a result the developers clearly didn’t intend. For that reason alone its an exploit, just not an official one.

It also isn’t about the damage scaling with his power, its about how this special place allows the damage to bypass his phase mechanics where he should go invulnerable.

What may happen is WoR will get the same treatment as feedback and only reflect X projectiles.

You use terrain to put it at the source because the source is otherwise too high in the air. So what it is unintended? Pushing Lupi to the wall? Dropping reflects on top of the wall? Isn’t everything in bounds of game mechanics and thus intended?

The more complicated your game rules the more ways unintended uses of skills can happen. It is very difficult to anticipate every way a player will push the use of something to keep everything in balance, the old argument of the game lets me do it so it must be intended assumes that the game was created by an omnipotent being who was able to anticipate everything before the game was published or released. No one would design a boss like Lupi and intentionally allow a way for what is happening to happen. Keep in mind for this to work you have to drop the WoR at a very specific spot and it took players 2 years to find it, it isn’t a surprise it would have been missed during development. Feedback technically reflects it at the source too but you don’t see the same result even before it was nerfed, so it isn’t about reflecting it at the source. The sad truth is Anet will be slow to fix it which just encourages more and more people to do it thinking “well they haven’t changed it so it must be intended”. I am more worried about a sweeping nerf that will either ruin Lupi or WoR, although capping it at 20 projectiles like Feedback was won’t be the end of the world.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

Jerus.4350:

Dramen Maidria.1034:

No Pulse.2967:

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

You’re not really putting it at the source though, you are putting it at a specific point in the terrain to create a result the developers clearly didn’t intend. For that reason alone its an exploit, just not an official one.

It also isn’t about the damage scaling with his power, its about how this special place allows the damage to bypass his phase mechanics where he should go invulnerable.

What may happen is WoR will get the same treatment as feedback and only reflect X projectiles.

Wasn’t that exact same argument used for the FGS issue.

“you’re clearly using the terrain in unintended ways making it an exploit”

And as far as phase skipping, didn’t we see that again with the FGS 7s kill someone did by timing it with his animations to prevent him from changing mid rush or something like that? Or isn’t it similar to doing a large attack right before 50% on Brie?

Again, I hate the trick, but I don’t see any solid arguments why it is an exploit but some of the other things int he past aren’t or lets talk current and that new way of centralizing damage on those IB4s and what not?

And FGS was changed to remove that use, it just took them too long to get around to it, but Anet has been historically slow with things like that all the way back to GW1. Exploit has more than one definition, which is why I separated this from Anet’s official definition that can get you banned. No one creates content with effects like this as part of their design, but the more complicated the system they work in the more ways it can happen. This is why a dungeon team is necessary, they correct these things quickly instead of what we end up with, people getting used to using broken mechanics then getting upset when they are suddenly changed after 6 months or more when they should have been changed within a week.

FGS wasnt changed because it was an exploit. It was changed because it was op and overused. Pretty sure they nerfed it because of PvP and WvW anyway. Nothing to do with PvE. It worked as intended. They just never expected players to use it in that way. Thats an oversight which led to unintended use. But its far from an exploit.

Unless you are considering it an exploit in terms of manipulating mechanics in a completely legitimate way. But labelling it like that causes misunderstandings. Because thats the same as when you exploit AI such as LoSing, stunlocking, or interrupting known attacks. They can all be considered exploitation of some sort. Yet they are all completely intended/valid tactics.

TL;DR
Dont use the word exploit for anything other than obvious bannable offenses.

Would be nice if the wall behind lupi becomes untargetable by ground target abilities but since wall is not that good in pvp/wvw this will never happen so wall on lupi will stay forever unless im wrong and anet finally starts to care about pve too yay.
(I dont like the wall either but i consider it a clever use of game mechanics)

I like it just because it’s faster tbh. After this long with no new content I even got tired of fighting lupi normally. =/

If it will make people feel better to substitute exploited for abusive that’s fine, it gets us to the same place and that’s why I mentioned exploit has multiple meanings, people get hung up on Anet’s official definition and that’s okay. Like I said, at this point I’m just hoping that when someone does bother to fix the situation 8 months from now it’ll just be to cap the reflects WoR can do rather than a Malrona fix.

It’s pretty stupid how all projectiles originate from the bottom and center of everything. Happens with everything. WvW Trebuchet, the Triple Trouble Wurm, etc. The animations are all lies.

The proper solution here is to make GL’s projectiles non-reflectable. That’ll stop this and make the fight more interesting in general.

make an “all welcome” post it usually fills with at least 1 necro. that is more than enough to scare off these unfun people who don’t bother complying with the lfg message. Alternatively, you can roll a necro yourself, even more fun when pugroulette in arah.

10 times out of 10 I’ve had a good experience when it comes to the option of group decisions in blowing up lupi. They sometimes ask “wall on wall lupi?” i immediately say “no” and that is that.

Another idea: make it so all reflects can’t crit. Maybe even make reflects do half damage – you have to admit, reflects are a bit overpowered, and should be more for defense than offense. This would reduce/prevent future problems too. Fortified turrets can’t crit and will only take about a third of his health – I only tried this once, as I don’t like to do this sort of thing (I don’t even use the OOC exploit at Belka when I solo).