10 Guards on VG
Not sure if ten thiefs could be do able. Granted its possible, but the extreme lack of healing is going to be the thing holding a full 10 man thief group back.
I recall a video of it being tried, but I can’t find the link right now.
“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”
It’s not that guardians are bad. It’s that better options exist. and why not take the best? If you doing through being a PUG then you should expect to bring your best because that’s what they want.
It’s not that guardians are bad. It’s that better options exist. and why not take the best? If you doing through being a PUG then you should expect to bring your best because that’s what they want.
Because everyone should (if it is possible) to play for his or her chosen toon. I’m a guardian since pre-release beta. I have all 8 other professions too, but non of them is as much fun as guardian for me. I would loved to meet more like-minded people like me, who don’t care if the boss gets killed in 6 minutes or 7. People who prefer fun and quality to pressure and number counting.
It’s not that guardians are bad. It’s that better options exist. and why not take the best? If you doing through being a PUG then you should expect to bring your best because that’s what they want.
Because everyone should (if it is possible) to play for his or her chosen toon. I’m a guardian since pre-release beta. I have all 8 other professions too, but non of them is as much fun as guardian for me. I would loved to meet more like-minded people like me, who don’t care if the boss gets killed in 6 minutes or 7. People who prefer fun and quality to pressure and number counting.
I totally see what your saying, sadly the raids where only made with a very small % of people in mind, it was exactly the same with dungeons, if you where going to pug it you had to run xyz class with xyz skills and have xx AP’s or don’t bother, Raids are the exact same unless you are running them with a guild,
You can run whatever class with a guild, but if its a pug group you better be ready to take that xyz class with xyz skills with xx APs or don’t bother.
Not sure if ten thiefs could be do able. Granted its possible, but the extreme lack of healing is going to be the thing holding a full 10 man thief group back.
I recall a video of it being tried, but I can’t find the link right now.
what.
1st attempt was not successful, but they will try again.
This 1st Raid wing depends more on player skill than class mechanics, I think any 10x class can complete at least VG.
Charter Vanguard [CV] – HoD
Bardy Belzebuson – Ranger Sir Belzebu – Herald
(and the other 8 elite specs maxed too)
(and the other 8 elite specs maxed too)
Do you want to play the healer role with your Druid? Great! The class is well built for that and arguable does it better than most classes! Want to player the healer role with your Thief? Umm…..what?
I realize I’m being a little extreme with that example, but you wanting to play Guard in a raid kinda falls into that category. There are simply classes that can better fill the roles that are called upon in the raids. Can you do the raids with any class? Absolutely! But, based on your class selection you’ll end up making the encounter either more difficult or less difficult.
The way I see it you can make the encounter easy making sure you optimize the following:
-Class
-Gear
-Skill
In the case of the 10 man Guard kill? They chose to play a sub-optimal class (with respect to the roles in the raid) so they had to compensate with better skill assuming they were all optimally geared.
The same applies to any raid attempt. You can get away with “worse” classes if your team overall has better skill and gear. You can “cheat” your skill requirements if you have better gear (exo vs Asc) or classes that have an easier time with the encounter. Best-in-slot gear means nothing compared to teams in worse gear but are much more precise in skills rotations and coordination.
Thief self sustain is so high they dont need a healer.
It’s not that guardians are bad. It’s that better options exist. and why not take the best? If you doing through being a PUG then you should expect to bring your best because that’s what they want.
That’s how elitist’s think. Why not take the best? Because you don’t need to in order to succeed. Even WITH ragetimers, the whole idea of the ‘ideal meta team’ falls flat on it’s face. The reality that a select few don’t want to admit and an even larger number don’t understand, is that there are LOTS of combinations of profs and skills that can make a 10 man team to beat raids.
You’ve just crossed over into
The Twilight Zone
(edited by RemiRome.8495)
It’s not that guardians are bad. It’s that better options exist. and why not take the best? If you doing through being a PUG then you should expect to bring your best because that’s what they want.
That’s how elitist’s think. Why not take the best? Because you don’t need to in order to succeed. Even WITH ragetimers, the whole idea of the ‘ideal meta team’ falls flat on it’s face. The reality that a select few don’t want to admit and an even larger number don’t understand, is that there are LOTS of combinations of profs and skills that can make a 10 man team to beat raids.
If you have your own raid team then run whatever you want, but it’s not elitist to point out you should bring the best classes to a pug. Pugs will struggle through the bosses in the first place, a sub-optimal class will just make the struggle even harder.
I’m not sure what you mean by “Ideal meta team falls flat on its face” because it is a fact that a good team comp will deal more damage and make it through raids far easier than 10 people choosing the class they like the most. The biggest reason for this are the offensive support that the meta classes have. Guardians and thieves literally bring nothing in the first raid wing. Even if a guard chooses to tank, a Chronomancer is far better for the job as they can both tank and provide perma quickness/near-perma alacrity They’re only bringing their own individual DPS which isn’t that great in the first place. A thief and a guard can fill in the gaps after all the better classes (for the raid) are already picked without it making too much of a difference…but it will still be noticeable, and it might be that little difference that’s keeping a pug group from succeeding.
The most important thing is whether or not who you’re playing with is okay with your decision. I don’t think it’s wrong for a serious pug group determined to complete the raid to kick someone who refuses to play one of the classes that will benefit the raid the most. I find it silly to kick someone in dungeons and fractals for such a reason, but raids are difficult enough for pug groups to warrant policing what classes your group should be playing.
(edited by Kagamiku.9731)
Well done. You proved two things with this attempt:
1. That those who believe you have to have a certain meta party to ever beat any boss in the raid are wrong.
2. That those who think the raid is possible with any group but easier and more efficient with certain compositions are right.
It’s not that guardians are bad. It’s that better options exist. and why not take the best? If you doing through being a PUG then you should expect to bring your best because that’s what they want.
That’s how elitist’s think. Why not take the best? Because you don’t need to in order to succeed. Even WITH ragetimers, the whole idea of the ‘ideal meta team’ falls flat on it’s face. The reality that a select few don’t want to admit and an even larger number don’t understand, is that there are LOTS of combinations of profs and skills that can make a 10 man team to beat raids.
If you have your own raid team then run whatever you want, but it’s not elitist to point out you should bring the best classes to a pug. Pugs will struggle through the bosses in the first place, a sub-optimal class will just make the struggle even harder.
I’m not sure what you mean by “Ideal meta team falls flat on its face” because it is a fact that a good team comp will deal more damage and make it through raids far easier than 10 people choosing the class they like the most.
There are not contradictions in what I’ve said. Anytime I see someone doing ‘meta-only’ team compositions, I think ‘Oh, not good enough a group to win outside of meta gaming?’. To boot, meta doesn’t allow anyone to succeed more; that’s a fallacy; it simply allows a group to CARRY others more.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
People are so narrow-minded right now.
I can’t even find a pug spot with condie engi because they only want burnzerker. It doesn’t matter I have plenty of killing experience on the boss. They just want burnzerker.
It’s not that guardians are bad. It’s that better options exist. and why not take the best? If you doing through being a PUG then you should expect to bring your best because that’s what they want.
That’s how elitist’s think. Why not take the best? Because you don’t need to in order to succeed. Even WITH ragetimers, the whole idea of the ‘ideal meta team’ falls flat on it’s face. The reality that a select few don’t want to admit and an even larger number don’t understand, is that there are LOTS of combinations of profs and skills that can make a 10 man team to beat raids.
If you have your own raid team then run whatever you want, but it’s not elitist to point out you should bring the best classes to a pug. Pugs will struggle through the bosses in the first place, a sub-optimal class will just make the struggle even harder.
I’m not sure what you mean by “Ideal meta team falls flat on its face” because it is a fact that a good team comp will deal more damage and make it through raids far easier than 10 people choosing the class they like the most.There are not contradictions in what I’ve said. Anytime I see someone doing ‘meta-only’ team compositions, I think ‘Oh, not good enough a group to win outside of meta gaming?’. To boot, meta doesn’t allow anyone to succeed more; that’s a fallacy; it simply allows a group to CARRY others more.
So what if you think that? It’s true. Most pugs will struggle beating the raid with meta-builds, and it will be impossible for them without meta-builds. They’ll simply hit a wall once they meet Gorseval because they lack the damage to advance. And even if they’re a decent group that can beat it with a subpar group comp, meta builds will still allow them to complete the raid with less attempts because meta builds allows for a larger margin of error.
And that’s precisely what makes you wrong, meta does carry groups who are not good enough to do it with non-meta builds. If they lack extremely good DPS rotations, a meta build will help them make up that lost damage.
Just because a team comp is “meta” that doesn’t mean everyone is using the same identical number of classes and builds. But there are classes and builds that will only serve to make the raid more difficult. And that’s fine if you want to run them, but it’s not elitist if the squad leader of another group doesn’t want that build/class on their team.
@Exciton: I’m not sure how that’s possible. Engi’s are extremely valuable and my raid team always has them. I prefer them over burn zerkers for Vale, and while a burnzerker will out damage an engi on Gorseval, slick shoes makes Gorsevals CC stage so easy without other classes sacrificing better skills or swapping to a less damaging weapon to help break his C.C.
(edited by Kagamiku.9731)
but it’s not elitist if the squad leader of another group doesn’t want that build/class on their team.
Guess we disagree then, especially if we already know the ability to carry a team only goes up as more meta teammates are present.