Guild Wars 2

I understand fractals have their own gear and such, which is good, to keep pve content from pvp and add a bit of pve progression into the game.

However, what I’m concerned with is the lack of a 10-man:10-boss type dungeon with a boss progression, challenges that require focus, planning and leadership.

All my friends have gone back to wow because they like that sort of thing, and truthfully I like spending time with them in Karazhan and Naxxramus. It was very happy times, meeting at my friends house, ordering pizza and setting up out laptops near each other for “raid night.”

If there were something like this, a real challenging, getting stuck on each boss kind of raid, my friends would all be back and spending money in the gem store again.

Sadly, this isnt happening with us in wow either at the moment because the subscription model is out-dated and nobody wants to pay to play anymore.

So if Devs read this section, adding this would draw back many players who actually enjoy the experience of growth in the raid style progression.

I agree, would be awesome to have this type of activities in GW2.

I totally support this idea. I know ArenaNet is trying to foster an environment that is accessible to players with busy schedules, but I think that they could make 10-player, instanced content available without having it become the giant time hog that it has been in other games. The biggest reason for this is that there isn’t a huge gear treadmill and the need to farm long hours to get necessary consumables.

I don’t want to see this unless they can make positioning more important than just having 10 people stack. It would play exactly the same as a 5-man team except you’d have more damage and the enemies would have more health.

GW1 discouraged people being near each other by having devastating AoE. Even in normal wilderness, things like djinn and roaring ethers would instagib your entire party of 8 if you were all clumped together.

Fluffball.8307:

I don’t want to see this unless they can make positioning more important than just having 10 people stack. It would play exactly the same as a 5-man team except you’d have more damage and the enemies would have more health.

GW1 discouraged people being near each other by having devastating AoE. Even in normal wilderness, things like djinn and roaring ethers would instagib your entire party of 8 if you were all clumped together.

^ Excellent point.

I also think they would need to add in more steady damage. The reason for this is that currently much of the damage comes in spikes, so it can just be dodged, leaving almost no need for any sort of support role. With steady, constant low damage, players would need to utilize more diverse strategy than simply stacking DPS boosting builds and dodging damage.

A lot of wimpy enemies doing constant damage and being able to be CCd would make for an excellent start to a 10-man dungeon.

Well, I don’t think it’s just about having a bunch of enemies doing low damage. Too much of that and everyone just runs an AoE spam build. There also need to be single enemies with a high speed, low damage attack or a DoT effect to keep up pressure.

Ideally you have this sort of low, steady damage and mix it with spike damage because too much of one without the other just makes for a stale, imbalanced meta.

You know you ~can~ just go play WoW, instead of turning GW2 into WoW, yes? Action combat is the point. 10 man action combat could be interesting, but these suggestions about unavoidable damage are contrary to the heart of the game.

It’s not unusual to have lots of wimpy enemies attacking you in GW2. The assassins in CoF2, or any of the zergling, sorry, graveling fights in AC. I actually really enjoy the CoF assassin fight because I don’t need the standard massive single target damage skills, but can rather take some supporty skills. It’s also not unusual to be loved by anyone.

maxinion.8396:

You know you ~can~ just go play WoW, instead of turning GW2 into WoW, yes? Action combat is the point. 10 man action combat could be interesting, but these suggestions about unavoidable damage are contrary to the heart of the game.

Is this a troll?

WoW’s a gear-grind extravaganza. Just because people enjoy large group, instanced content doesn’t mean they like to grind all day to be able to do it or like having their friends locked out of their group because they aren’t in the same gear tier.

And how is unavoidable damage contrary to the ‘heart of the game’? Do you believe that having all healing and support traits/builds/gear being irrelevant is being true to the ‘heart of the game’?

Because dodging everything is skills is the heart of the game? I dont mind it about behing able to dodge nuking attack but the fact one can solo a fight just by dodging pulling aegis in and blocking at the right time is kind of dumb. The principe of a MMO dungeon boss is by default to be a challanging encounter designed for a GROUP to overcome. Im not denying the skills of those who soloed it but im reminding solo should not be possible in the first place. In most MMo if you end up soloing you are dead because either you are the healer (dps less and no armor) either you are the tank (no Healing lot of armor low dps) either you are a dps (dies in 1 hit cant heal itself). Since in this game no one depends of anyone to survive and there is no actual punishing mechanics for party with reduced numbers you could just as well let everyone in your party die and solo the boss why would you care long as you can dodge everything your fine o_O

Maybe what they should do is add a purposedly undodgeable mechanics to some bosses wich target the players and allies around in a logic succession (1,2,3,4,5…) and deals damage, the cool stuff is that the more targets around the longuer before that mechanics hits you again, Now whats the point? to put it bluntly the less player/target alive the shorter it will be before the thing hits you again and drop your hp by a fair chunk (thing is once there is barely 2 player left the damage is only spread between the two remaining alive targets resulting into them taking way to much damage to sustain trought and as such falling down)

I think some people are having reading comprehension issues here…

No one is saying that dodging should be irrelevant. Dodging at the right time should be integral to success.

However, that shouldn’t be the only defense you need to succeed.

Dahkeus.8243:

maxinion.8396:

You know you ~can~ just go play WoW, instead of turning GW2 into WoW, yes? Action combat is the point. 10 man action combat could be interesting, but these suggestions about unavoidable damage are contrary to the heart of the game.

Is this a troll?

WoW’s a gear-grind extravaganza. Just because people enjoy large group, instanced content doesn’t mean they like to grind all day to be able to do it or like having their friends locked out of their group because they aren’t in the same gear tier.

And how is unavoidable damage contrary to the ‘heart of the game’? Do you believe that having all healing and support traits/builds/gear being irrelevant is being true to the ‘heart of the game’?

I’m not trolling, I’m serious. I, and many others in this forum, quite enjoy the fact that basically all damage is avoidable with a good group providing strong party support. Aegis + blind + evades + blocks + dodges are all active damage mitigation, which require skill and reflex to apply. This is compared to equipping toughness gear, which requires no skill. I don’t think it’s fun to mitigate damage with gear or healing, because it’s a very passive form of play.

We all want harder content, and even harder content that requires more people or more coordination. That part we certainly all agree with! Content which requires toughness or healing power or whatever seems like less fun, since it is not twitchy and active.

Basically: we agree that harder content would be cool, but you’ll find that very many people do not want more Trinity-type mechanics like what you are suggesting.

They need to do raids. Wurm and teq are no substitute. 10 man’s could be great. The Wizard’s Tower – Karazhan of Guild Wars. It’s okay that we don’t have tanks and healers (although you can definitely fudge it sometimes, a la warden one, or even clockheart.) No gear grind also means no dead raids. Raids aren’t evil – this game has the perfect setup for fun, non-gear focused raiding. The ‘trait reset anywhere’ will only help. But I don’t think Anet will do it. What a shame.

Dahkeus.8243:

Fluffball.8307:

I don’t want to see this unless they can make positioning more important than just having 10 people stack. It would play exactly the same as a 5-man team except you’d have more damage and the enemies would have more health.

GW1 discouraged people being near each other by having devastating AoE. Even in normal wilderness, things like djinn and roaring ethers would instagib your entire party of 8 if you were all clumped together.

^ Excellent point.

I also think they would need to add in more steady damage. The reason for this is that currently much of the damage comes in spikes, so it can just be dodged, leaving almost no need for any sort of support role. With steady, constant low damage, players would need to utilize more diverse strategy than simply stacking DPS boosting builds and dodging damage.

Ranger/ele drops water field, DPS players blast it, oops we’re back to full health again.

Stop trying to mitigate the dodge mechanic, GW2 is an action RPG.

maxinion.8396:

Dahkeus.8243:

maxinion.8396:

You know you ~can~ just go play WoW, instead of turning GW2 into WoW, yes? Action combat is the point. 10 man action combat could be interesting, but these suggestions about unavoidable damage are contrary to the heart of the game.

Is this a troll?

WoW’s a gear-grind extravaganza. Just because people enjoy large group, instanced content doesn’t mean they like to grind all day to be able to do it or like having their friends locked out of their group because they aren’t in the same gear tier.

And how is unavoidable damage contrary to the ‘heart of the game’? Do you believe that having all healing and support traits/builds/gear being irrelevant is being true to the ‘heart of the game’?

I’m not trolling, I’m serious. I, and many others in this forum, quite enjoy the fact that basically all damage is avoidable with a good group providing strong party support. Aegis + blind + evades + blocks + dodges are all active damage mitigation, which require skill and reflex to apply. This is compared to equipping toughness gear, which requires no skill. I don’t think it’s fun to mitigate damage with gear or healing, because it’s a very passive form of play.

We all want harder content, and even harder content that requires more people or more coordination. That part we certainly all agree with! Content which requires toughness or healing power or whatever seems like less fun, since it is not twitchy and active.

Basically: we agree that harder content would be cool, but you’ll find that very many people do not want more Trinity-type mechanics like what you are suggesting.

You’re misreading what I’m saying if you think that I’m arguing for trinity-type mechanics. I’m arguing that there’s a wide range of mechanics that are largely ignored because of dodges. Yes, blinds are used to some degree on trash and aegis is helpful to some degree too, but we still have no real use or at least very limited use for:
– Group heals
– Group regeneration
– Weakness on enemies
– Group Protection
– Enemy CC through immobilize/snare/knockdown

Ultimately, you don’t need a dedicated healer spot to make gear with healing stats a viable or attractive option to players. Making healing worthwhile doesn’t automatically make a dedicated healer required.

When you open up 10-player content, there’s also a lot more room for diverse builds and it would be a shame if it resulted in just being another situation where you only need a tiny portion of the available utility because that results in people making parties where they primarily stack whatever is the highest DPS class.

Like I said, there are already plenty of examples of tons of weak enemies attacking you in the current dungeons. In order for a 10-man dungeon to be anything different than 5-man dungeons, you have to present greater challenges. A boss sending a dodgeable attack your way every 7 seconds or so is not new and there would be no point in the new dungeon. Now a boss forcing you to dodge while lots of weak enemies force your larger party to use lots of support skills would be interesting.

For that matter, there is no point in any new content if it’s the same ol’ dodge the boss attack every 7 seconds. All you’re doing is reskinning the same encounter.

Fluffball.8307:

Like I said, there are already plenty of examples of tons of weak enemies attacking you in the current dungeons. In order for a 10-man dungeon to be anything different than 5-man dungeons, you have to present greater challenges. A boss sending a dodgeable attack your way every 7 seconds or so is not new and there would be no point in the new dungeon. Now a boss forcing you to dodge while lots of weak enemies force your larger party to use lots of support skills would be interesting.

For that matter, there is no point in any new content if it’s the same ol’ dodge the boss attack every 7 seconds. All you’re doing is reskinning the same encounter.

The problem with your example of current dungeons is that those weak mobs just get stacked and AoEed down while they get trapped in a spot that keeps them easily blinded/reflected/etc. If they added in a bit of AI code to make enemies step out of AoE, similar to in the first Guild Wars, players would actually be soaking up a bit of that steady damage and would have to engage with enemies instead of just standing in one spot, spamming abilities.

– Weakness on enemies

Which is used all the time at high level fractals by using skale venom and warrior warhorn 5.

– Group Protection

Hammer guardians are heavily used in high level fractals – and they apply group protection.

– Enemy CC through immobilize/snare/knockdown

Not sure what this even means, but if you’re arguing CC doesn’t do much I have a whole bunch of videos I can link which show you points where CC works in this game.

It boils down to people just wanting healers, and this game does not have healers. Play another game.

If they added in a bit of AI code to make enemies step out of AoE,

IIRC this was actually in the beta of GW2 but they removed it. I don’t think chasing mobs around is anyone’s idea of fun.

players would actually be soaking up a bit of that steady damage and would have to engage with enemies instead of just standing in one spot, spamming abilities.

Except they wouldn’t. And for the last time, people don’t “spam abilities”, you chain blinds, aegis and CC so that you can burn mobs down while keeping the party’s HP high.

The amount of misinformation spread about this game is depressing.

Dahkeus.8243:

You’re misreading what I’m saying if you think that I’m arguing for trinity-type mechanics. I’m arguing that there’s a wide range of mechanics that are largely ignored because of dodges. Yes, blinds are used to some degree on trash and aegis is helpful to some degree too, but we still have no real use or at least very limited use for:
– Group heals
– Group regeneration
– Weakness on enemies
– Group Protection
– Enemy CC through immobilize/snare/knockdown

Do you even play this game? Wait, don’t answer. I know at what level the “average”… if you can call it that… GW2 players play and do dungeons.
I’m honestly sick of seeing these ridiculous arguments thread after thread. I see someone else is already wasting his time trying to make you see reason, so more power and critical damage to him.
Strike hard and true.

@ hendo: I’ll repeat this point since you seemed to have missed it – Making healing worthwhile doesn’t automatically make a dedicated healer required.

And yes, high end fractals is the one portion of the game where a decent amount of defense is needed since you can’t burn through it with the same stack-n-spam tactics that you use for all the other dungeons in the game.

deSade.9437:

Dahkeus.8243:

You’re misreading what I’m saying if you think that I’m arguing for trinity-type mechanics. I’m arguing that there’s a wide range of mechanics that are largely ignored because of dodges. Yes, blinds are used to some degree on trash and aegis is helpful to some degree too, but we still have no real use or at least very limited use for:
– Group heals
– Group regeneration
– Weakness on enemies
– Group Protection
– Enemy CC through immobilize/snare/knockdown

Do you even play this game? Wait, don’t answer. I know at what level the “average”… if you can call it that… GW2 players play and do dungeons.
I’m honestly sick of seeing these ridiculous arguments thread after thread. I see someone else is already wasting his time trying to make you see reason, so more power and critical damage to him.
Strike hard and true.

Yes. How dare people argue for a wider range viable roles for dungeons instead of just praising the pure berserker stack-n-DPS mentality that is encouraged by 90% of dungeon content.

~eyeroll~

Just to repeat – you do not spam abilities. The sooner you realise that the sooner you will realise there is more complexity to this game’s combat that you keep refusing to open your eyes to.

The fact of the matter is, there is a whole group of instances where three out of the five things you mentioned are extremely relevant but you’re choosing to either ignore or downplay any arguments contrary to your stance.

Yes. How dare people argue for a wider range viable roles for dungeons instead of just praising the pure berserker stack-n-DPS mentality that is encouraged by 90% of dungeon content.

Except there are a bunch of viable roles. You take a thief for stealth and sheer DPS, mesmers for almost full reflect uptime, guardians for defensive support and projectile reflection, warriors for offensive buffs and banners, rangers for offensive buffs and a small amount of projectile reflection and elementalists for offensive boon stacking and for situations where you can burst the hell out of bosses. Engineers aren’t so good in organised groups and necros are … meh.

However you don’t have individual players assigned to certain roles. Mesmers, guardians, rangers and thieves can deal with projectiles (to varying extents), warriors, elementalists, guardians and rangers can deal with offensive buffing (to various extents – they all have access to fire fields but warriors have banners, rangers have frost spirit/spotter, eles have fiery greatsword and then guardians just have the fire field). Warriors are quite good if a lot of immobilise is required since they can trait their throw bolas.

Just because there isn’t “you and only you shall, let alone even can do X, and you will do Y and you will do Z” doesn’t mean there aren’t roles. It’s just you’re expected to handle, DPS, control and support individually as players. You all contribute your share of them.

If you want dedicated roles like healing and a buff bot, well there’s other MMOs, but a lot of us are happy with what ANet did with GW2 (and the more we understood the game the more we appreciated it) and we don’t want shoehorned roles.

OP. Hi there. Are you aware of the fact that it’s sometimes difficult to get people to sync for CoE P1 puzzle? Or for lasers? Or for Arah P1 tar boss? Or everbody’s favourite dredge fractal?
Have you ever tried to complete marionette? Or tequatl? Or wurms? Have you seen it fail because people obviously can’t handle thinking and organizing stuff? Even though it requires almost 0 thinking? Even if there is a commander that explains everything?
Good. This thread is now about stacking=exploiting. Of course it is.

Are you posting in the wrong thread?

You’re still arguing against things I’m not saying. I’m not saying that each profession should have a specified role. Where are you getting this stuff?

I’m saying that healing should be a viable tactic. This doesn’t mean you should need to have a dedicated healer, but it does mean that there should be a reason to wear something other than berserker gear in a dungeon group.

I’m saying that groups should need to handle mobs with something more than just stacking in a spot and AoEing/cleaving them down.

Yes, it’s good that there are roles for reflecting projectiles and stacking specific DPS buffs, but because anything outside of this matters so little, group tactics are stale and no one following the meta wants anything other than a full-berserker geared member in their party.

It’s bad enough that this is present in all, but high end fractals, but if you continue this trend into a 10-player group, these problems will be even more pronounced. Groups will take a guard, someone to stack might (maybe an ele), a spotter/spirit ranger, then they’ll just stack whatever does the highest personal DPS.

and let me repeat since you still don’t seem to have seen it when I wrote it before: I’m not arguing for dedicated roles

One more time since you seem to have missed this so many times:
I’m not arguing for dedicated roles

Dahkeus.8243:

The problem with your example of current dungeons is that those weak mobs just get stacked and AoEed down while they get trapped in a spot that keeps them easily blinded/reflected/etc.

Assassin part of CoF2 doesn’t get stacked. They spawn all over the place and aren’t dangerous enough to stack, and there is no speed advantage to killing them fast or slow since you’re reliant on Magg’s timer.

I personally think it’s an interesting fight because no one stacks there, and there are a lot of opportunities to support your team. Group stability is really helpful, and there is enough pressure that people can wind up going down if no one has any support at all. Coupled with the timer mechanic and you are often better off taking support over pure damage (for example Spirit of Stone would be a lot more useful than “Sic ’em!” if your group doesn’t already have protection.)

Dahkeus.8243:

If they added in a bit of AI code to make enemies step out of AoE, similar to in the first Guild Wars, players would actually be soaking up a bit of that steady damage and would have to engage with enemies instead of just standing in one spot, spamming abilities.

Sounds good to me. Anything to get people moving around.

This would never work, because 10 post-patch zerkers would be unable to do any damage.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Rampager-build-looks-promising-in-PVE-now/first#post3795996

according to anet the zerk build is receiving a 10% damage nerf which means having 5 group of zerker after the patch will be doing 50% less damage

giggles

dlonie.6547:

This would never work, because 10 post-patch zerkers would be unable to do any damage.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Rampager-build-looks-promising-in-PVE-now/first#post3795996

according to anet the zerk build is receiving a 10% damage nerf which means having 5 group of zerker after the patch will be doing 50% less damage

giggles

i personally believe these forums should require a gearcheck, for kittens sake some one please kill me…

dlonie.6547:

This would never work, because 10 post-patch zerkers would be unable to do any damage.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Rampager-build-looks-promising-in-PVE-now/first#post3795996

according to anet the zerk build is receiving a 10% damage nerf which means having 5 group of zerker after the patch will be doing 50% less damage

giggles

This… this gem. I heard spoj talking about it on ts but I didn’t bother checking and…
Oh boy, was I wrong.

Are you posting in the wrong thread?
You’re still arguing against things I’m not saying. I’m not saying that each profession should have a specified role. Where are you getting this stuff?
I’m saying that healing should be a viable tactic. This doesn’t mean you should need to have a dedicated healer, but it does mean that there should be a reason to wear something other than berserker gear in a dungeon group.

Healing is a viable tactic. Just not at high level play. Stick full clerics on your guardian and watch the HP bars go up. High level groups don’t need healing because they can handle their own survivability, and being rewarded for high skill level by being able to wear offensive gear I don’t think is unreasonable.

I’m saying that groups should need to handle mobs with something more than just stacking in a spot and AoEing/cleaving them down.

Why? Why should we have to circle kite or anything like that? It’s not fun, it’s not interesting, it’s tedious.

Yes, it’s good that there are roles for reflecting projectiles and stacking specific DPS buffs, but because anything outside of this matters so little, group tactics are stale and no one following the meta wants anything other than a full-berserker geared member in their party.

You’re basically saying “all the relevant tactics aren’t what I like, therefore group tactics are stale”. Just because you dislike the current meta doesn’t mean it should be changed.

It’s bad enough that this is present in all, but high end fractals, but if you continue this trend into a 10-player group, these problems will be even more pronounced. Groups will take a guard, someone to stack might (maybe an ele), a spotter/spirit ranger, then they’ll just stack whatever does the highest personal DPS.

And why shouldn’t they? In raids for other MMOs you trim out as many healers and tanks as possible until you reach your cap of DPS-ers too, why should GW2 be different? You get all of your classes that can apply unique buffs then you just stack as many high DPS classes as possible while maintaining a safe enough ratio of say, guardians to keep them protected with blinds, aegis, protection, reflection so that they can maintain their DPS rotations.

and let me repeat since you still don’t seem to have seen it when I wrote it before: I’m not arguing for dedicated roles

One more time since you seem to have missed this so many times:
I’m not arguing for dedicated roles

You want healers to be viable, i.e. a dedicated role.

Play another game if you don’t want the burden of DPS, support and control.

sigh I don’t get why all threads about more challenging content have to be hijacked by “want trinity, no stacking” discussions… If you want to discuss it, there’s a million topics on it already. Not to mention an idiotically large one in the general discussion forum.

Yes, raid type content would be fun. Lupi type bosses with like 10 phazes or something… Or even an 8 man instance of the likes of fissure of woe or underworld would be sweet.

cranos.5913:

sigh I don’t get why all threads about more challenging content have to be hijacked by “want trinity, no stacking” discussions… If you want to discuss it, there’s a million topics on it already. Not to mention an idiotically large one in the general discussion forum.

Yes, raid type content would be fun. Lupi type bosses with like 10 phazes or something… Or even an 8 man instance of the likes of fissure of woe or underworld would be sweet.

Basically this.

cranos.5913:

sigh I don’t get why all threads about more challenging content have to be hijacked by “want trinity, no stacking” discussions… If you want to discuss it, there’s a million topics on it already. Not to mention an idiotically large one in the general discussion forum.

Yes, raid type content would be fun. Lupi type bosses with like 10 phazes or something… Or even an 8 man instance of the likes of fissure of woe or underworld would be sweet.

cranos.5913:

sigh I don’t get why all threads about more challenging content have to be hijacked by “want trinity, no stacking” discussions…

It’s not a hijacking. There is no reason to make a dungeon 10-man if it’s going to play exactly the same as a 5-man. You wouldn’t even be able to see that there are ten people playing with you because you’d all be on top of each other.

I have no moral problems with stacking, but it would be an absolute waste of an opportunity.

No one wants a trinity, but a ton of people want excuses to use skills that do something other than blind or damage. All these beautiful CC skills go to waste!

Fluffball.8307:

cranos.5913:

sigh I don’t get why all threads about more challenging content have to be hijacked by “want trinity, no stacking” discussions…

It’s not a hijacking. There is no reason to make a dungeon 10-man if it’s going to play exactly the same as a 5-man. You wouldn’t even be able to see that there are ten people playing with you because you’d all be on top of each other.

I have no moral problems with stacking, but it would be an absolute waste of an opportunity.

No one wants a trinity, but a ton of people want excuses to use skills that do something other than blind or damage. All these beautiful CC skills go to waste!

Am I the only one who uses CC in high level fractals then? :S TBH I wouldn’t be able to survive on my little zerk guardian otherwise. 0_o Especially ice bow #5 is a great CC to get a boss DPSed down quickly imo.

Of course 10 man dungeons would have better mechanics then the actual dungeons. It’d be more like lupi or many of the fractal bosses, but then much more difficult and most likely several phazes. None of what I see here is about that though, it’s all “let’s add unavoidable damage to make zerkers wear knights gear” which is the most overdone, boring discussion on this forum.

Try Clerics’ gear.

Fractals are a huge improvement over the regular farming dungeons, you’re right. Stacking isn’t a thing there, and there are tons of support skill areas.

I like the idea of lots of wimpy enemies coming at you because bosses are immune to CC and most of them can’t damage you at all. The grawl fire elemental boss is so much fun because of the lava eles, the actual boss is useless. (Also the DoTAoE he puts on players and ‘hot feet’ or whatever it is called is a fun way to force movement.)

Why 10 man dungeon? Why not 5 man dungeon?

The more the merrier.

Just imagine how it would look like to pug a 10 man raid with all the “playhowiwant” players …

That’s the main reason for this not happening. Anet wants everyone to enjoy their content. 10 man raids aren’t possible for playhowiwant’s.

Dalanor.5387:

Just imagine how it would look like to pug a 10 man raid with all the “playhowiwant” players …

It would happen what used to happen at Urgoz, I guess. Go in, first room, first group of mobs, 15 seconds, wipe.
Gw1 was a merciful god, so it allowed your idiotic team to stop ridiculing itself and you were kicked out of the instance; gw2, on the other hand…
Go in, wipe.
Ress.
Go in, wipe.
(x10)
Same strategy everytime, of course: the guardian tanking, the elementalist stuck in water pumping heals and 7 bearbows pew-pewing from distance doing mad dps with the new grandmaster trait. No mob stacking because it’s an exploit: let the 20 enemies gallop freely on the prairie and on your corpses. They need to have fun too.

Anyway, nah. Imagine the particle effects on a dungeon boss like Alphie, but this time done by 10 people. Just… no.
Fix the mechanics first, then new 5 man dungeons with better encounters, then maybe a 10-12 man zone. Still, not happening. We got Tequila as “hardcore content”.

I want Fissure of Woe and Underworld baaacccckkkk. Exact same content and feature, then we’ll talk about 10-man party.

deSade.9437:

Anyway, nah. Imagine the particle effects on a dungeon boss like Alphie, but this time done by 10 people. Just… no.

These are already painful to watch indeed.

Fix the mechanics first, then new 5 man dungeons with better encounters, then maybe a 10-12 man zone. Still, not happening. We got Tequila as “hardcore content”.

Yep, beside being the same stack on boss and dps like mad wouldn’t be any different from the current 5 man system. Or they would introduce weird and gimmick mechanics for a few “raid” member, similar to what they did an Aether path with the pheromone buffs.
And make it instanced in the first place, open world zerging either a fail or boils down to who can coordinate 100-150 people on TS on a forced overflow / empty map.

ps: Are there any “dungeon design” thread for this topic? Actual brainstorming would be usefol on the topic with encounter ideas.

In gw1 you had 2 elite instance with 12 players it was awesome.
There was also a pvp arena with 12 on each team.
And a timed mission with 16 players.
But they wont do that because they players would have to wait around for too long.
That’s why they vent from 8→5 players in the first place.

But GW1 had henchmens for the same reason, right?

Hah. Try doing anything with henchmen. Things started getting decent only with Nightfall and heroes; even then, bar a few weird solo builds, you wanted players to help you do elite zones.
Still, I thought mmos were meant to play with people… nevermind.

The OP seems to be asking for mini raids that require a lot of team work and co-ordination and are rewarding because they are difficult. The problem is that the game philosophy is currently about open access events that anyone can join. It isn’t about complex dungeons that need voice chat and organization by small cliques. I also don’t see that you can do much more with 10 man dungeons than 5 man dungeons. Having six people run past a trap to flick switches isn’t much better than three people flicking switches. Having 10 people dodging at the right time while auto-attacking isn’t much better than 5 people doing it. People forget that the existing dungeons are actually difficult but are made easy by perfected tactics and the same would happen to 10 man dungeons too.

There is probably more need in the game for 2 player content for casuals such as couples and kids. They often don’t want to join with strangers for speedrunning dungeons, WvW, or complex world events but they still want some fun repeatable content.

Anet is moving away from dungeon content. Good idea or not, this will never happen.

Well, yeah. They are.