Guild Wars 2

melee> more risks
more risks> more rewards
more rewards> boons, dps, faster revives

Bad. Why?
1)It’s against the silly policy of minimal pvp/pve split. Adding this to pvp/wvw would be gamebreaking.
2)Nobody from anet cares about dungeons.

OP, this idea is so immersion breaking. I wouldn’t like to get might stacks from blast finisher that occured 234973847 metres away.

Melee weapons : good DPS.
Ranged weapons : low DPS.
Of course there are exceptions for some fights, but they are played in melee range anyways.
Having the mobs/boss running around will never help.
And no thanks for kittening bearbow ranger at 1500 range.

The counter arguments are…interesting, to say the least. I think saying the word ‘meta’ is like an insult to them though.

One might have to clarify exactly what the scope of the issue you’re tackling since assuring you’re not “taking their jobs” doesn’t work.

I had a similar idea rolling in my head, since people argued the question “Why do you stack so much?” with “Because that’s how you share boons”. So asking “Well what if you could be further away and still share boons?” gets several responses:

-immersion breaking (meh, a non-issue)
-would split PvP and PvE (fair point but such policies can change…such are guidelines, not rules)
-melee should be better (it still would be)
-slower revives (another good point, just chalk that up to a disadvantage of range to look out for just like melee must be more aware of cleave and AoE)

Another disguised anti-stacking thread?

oxtred.7658:

melee> more risks
more risks> more rewards
more rewards> boons, dps, faster revives

quoting myself until you understand.

Please create next topics in the profession balance subforum, though.

Why are some people so determined to change the game to reward bad/unskillful play.

Why should ranging at max range have no disadvantages? Can you give me a good reason?

dlmoore.7293:

Oh I understand now. Thank you for the great response! I don’t really see how those are counter arguments though. The only real counterargument I’ve seen here is that it is immersion breaking… and I don’t really see how it’s immersion breaking. As you said, the pvp/ pve split is just a guideline. The others are just reasons that melee is better than range, which isn’t really the topic here. I could have worded the title better for sure XD

Melee being better than range is indeed the topic.
The reason why there is a melee meta is because it’s better.
The origin of a “metagame” whatever game we may be talking about (hell, there is even a Pokémon metagame, so please learn what it means before coming) is the fact that people that play the game eventually realize that there are better ways of completing the content in a particular “state” of the game.

Taking games updates a “states”, we might want to name the current metagame : the “melee conjures meta”.

This is because of the following points :
- Melee weapons/skills have better damage coefficients
- Boons have limited range
- Dropping conjures in melee range (where eveyone is) makes them easier to pick up
- Reviving downed players is easier/faster
- The game feels more challenging and dynamic in melee
- Hugging and cuddling is always nice (personal)

The only way to break the current meta include but are not limited to :
- Nerfing melee weapons to the ground, however ranged weapons would be used in melee range (check : ranger LB DPS 2K14 Meta)
- Increasing the boon range : broken in pvp as I could stack might outside of the team fight
- Nerfing conjures to the ground : increses durtion of fights, making them more boring and reducing interest in PvE content. If you’re concerned by the lack of players, avoid this.
- Allow to revive downed players from farther away. Obviously broken in PvP as well. We don’t have split balance /ignore.

Never hate on the “meta” as there will always be one. Don’t ak to fix something you don’t understand.

If you’ve got any questions, feel free to ask.

Edit reasoning : fixing typos :/

spoj.9672:

Why are some people so determined to change the game to reward bad/unskillful play.

Why should ranging at max range have no disadvantages? Can you give me a good reason?

Did you think about the other perspective? I mean, the OP is talking only of boon ranges in dungeons.

Now look at the issues brought up by the poster above me. How can you claim ‘no disadvantages’?

Maybe because Spoj already overcame them?

Oh yeah and someone else mentioned the issues of the target making unnecessary movements because of ranged aggro. That can be a disadvantage as well.

Leo G.4501:

Now look at the issues brought up by the poster above me. How can you claim ‘no disadvantages’?

I expect answers from your side, not the views of a fellow “metaheavyuser”.

The only disadvantage i see is not being able to revive each other. But thats a disadvantage to the melee players. The ones ranging should be perfectly safe. So it might be a disadvantage to the group as a whole if the melee players fail. But its an advantage for the rangers.

Leo G.4501:

Oh yeah and someone else mentioned the issues of the target making unnecessary movements because of ranged aggro. That can be a disadvantage as well.

Thats another example of a disadvantage to the melee players for running with rangers. Not a disadvantage to the rangers…. So basically you want to reward the safe rangers for causing problems for the melee players. Am I correct?

So again why should ranging have no disadvantages? And to be more specific. Why should it have no disadvantages in effectiveness when its the far safer option?

Enaretos.8079:

Leo G.4501:

Now look at the issues brought up by the poster above me. How can you claim ‘no disadvantages’?

I expect answers from your side, not the views of a fellow “metaheavyuser”.

You’re short sighted. How can you craft good solutions if you don’t bring to light all the possible problems with it?

spoj.9672:

The only disadvantage i see is not being able to revive each other. But thats a disadvantage to the melee players. The ones ranging should be perfectly safe. So it might be a disadvantage to the group as a whole if the melee players fail. But its an advantage for the rangers.

Leo G.4501:

Oh yeah and someone else mentioned the issues of the target making unnecessary movements because of ranged aggro. That can be a disadvantage as well.

Thats another example of a disadvantage to the melee players for running with rangers. Not a disadvantage to the rangers….

So again why should ranging have no disadvantages? And to be more specific. Why should it have no disadvantages in effectiveness when its the far safer option?

Read Enaretos’ post.

Leo G.4501:

spoj.9672:

The only disadvantage i see is not being able to revive each other. But thats a disadvantage to the melee players. The ones ranging should be perfectly safe. So it might be a disadvantage to the group as a whole if the melee players fail. But its an advantage for the rangers.

Leo G.4501:

Oh yeah and someone else mentioned the issues of the target making unnecessary movements because of ranged aggro. That can be a disadvantage as well.

Thats another example of a disadvantage to the melee players for running with rangers. Not a disadvantage to the rangers….

So again why should ranging have no disadvantages? And to be more specific. Why should it have no disadvantages in effectiveness when its the far safer option?

Read Enaretos’ post.

Errr I did. The only disadvantage i can make out that you are referring to is reviving which I have already countered. Can you maybe answer my questions instead of avoiding the issue?

And if you are referring to damage coefficients. Longbow ranger and staff ele are both 1200 range and superior damage. Longbow is only weak currently because if you are close the auto attack is weak. With this boon sharing suggestion it would be broken.

@Leo G : spoj and I ran dungeon together for close to a year.

We pretty much share the same views on this game. I’m still waiting on your answer. Not his.

spoj.9672:

Errr I did. The only disadvantage i can make out that you are referring to is reviving which I have already countered. Can you maybe answer my questions instead of avoiding the issue?

And if you are referring to damage coefficients. Longbow ranger and staff ele are both 1200 range and superior damage. Longbow is only weak currently because if you are close the auto attack is weak. With this boon sharing suggestion it would be broken.

How about the main disadvantage: that it won’t outpace the current meta. For an idea that is suppose to overturn the basic way we approach dungeons, it would have to be better than what people run now.

As for the fact that it would be broken, care to substantiate that? It’s more productive than pretending this is some grade school argument. You’d think people would try to help with criticism, not silence them with hearsay.

Enaretos.8079:

@Leo G : spoj and I ran dungeon together for close to a year.

We pretty much share the same views on this game. I’m still waiting on your answer. Not his.

And you must be trolling. The only thing I’ve done is restate what the OP is saying and summarized what the opposition pointed out. I owe you no answers, you should be appreciative I’m owing you my attention.

dlmoore.7293:

I have acknowledged that melee would still be the meta. I wasn’t hating on it. I was just saying that this system would make pugging easier and less frustrating. That’s it.

I hear ya. It’s still going to be a tough cab to sell as you have witnessed.

Like I mentioned before, I rolled a similar idea around in my head, wondering how to make it work under the initial premise of ‘why people stack’. I have yet to make a comprehensive post on it because there are a lot more factors involved other than stacking, such as the issues you brought this up under.

Since I haven’t PuG’ed much lately, I’m not sure how strict they are now-a-days with dungeon runs so not sure how badly you’d get chewed out for ranging it like you mentioned, but it’s not like the approach is infeasible to just range it :P

I’m hoping more changes to the core of the game might be in the works to deal with the rampant boon stacking so perhaps not being in range of all the boons won’t be as big an issue then…

Seems you misunderstand. The meta would change to having lbow ranger (rapid fire is op now) and staff eles at max range with the rest of the party in melee. So yes my points are completely valid.

Are you actually going to answer my questions by the way? Because until you do you havent actually given a valid reason for such a change.

So you want to afk at range while the party will take dmg for you ?
Having 5 people at melee makes it easier to avoid dmg, since the mobs will rotate targets. If there are only 3, or 2, it will be harder for them to survive.

Leo G.4501:

Enaretos.8079:

@Leo G : spoj and I ran dungeon together for close to a year.

We pretty much share the same views on this game. I’m still waiting on your answer. Not his.

And you must be trolling. The only thing I’ve done is restate what the OP is saying and summarized what the opposition pointed out. I owe you no answers, you should be appreciative I’m owing you my attention.

Or not ! I don’t troll often mate. I appreciate the attention, but you should keep it for yourself, no problemo :/

You took part in a debate, either you give arguments or you’re the real troll

spoj.9672:

Why are some people so determined to change the game to reward bad/unskillful play.

Why should ranging at max range have no disadvantages? Can you give me a good reason?

You should play how he wants, isn’t that enough ?

spoj.9672:

Seems you misunderstand. The meta would change to having lbow ranger (rapid fire is op now) and staff eles at max range with the rest of the party in melee. So yes my points are completely valid.

Are you actually going to answer my questions by the way? Because until you do you havent actually given a valid reason for such a change.

You and your buddy seem to take an overtly aggressive posting style for some odd reason (not to be mistaken for hostile)…

~You buddy expects answers from me yet never addressed a single question toward me. This still boggles me. He has no qualms drawing lines in the sand and pitting people against each other by sides though.

~I presented you with answers to your questions. You simply dismiss them and keep pressing me to answer your questions?

I don’t know what kind of poster you think I am, but I don’t owe you any type of response. You can either reply to what I say with some courtesy rather than pure dismissiveness or I can simply refuse to be bullied to respond by you and your buddy.

Gunsnroll.2657:

So you want to afk at range while the party will take dmg for you ?

Just a short quip here: There’s nothing stopping players from doing this now.

Gunsnroll.2657:

Having 5 people at melee makes it easier to avoid dmg, since the mobs will rotate targets. If there are only 3, or 2, it will be harder for them to survive.

And this is why I mentioned this being a disadvantage. Posters try to point out that “it’s not a disadvantage to the ranger” but I’m not talking about the ranger or any two specific classes with this idea. This is about team dynamics to which there is a disadvantage there.

That being said, the proposition is still working both ways. Now you don’t have to be huddled nearby to get the boons from that mesmer or ranger so using those utilities would be a boon to those that need it the most even if you happen to be moving to do other things in the encounter.

I know you don’t want to range afk, it was just to make a point.
While you’ll be ranging to benefit from the dmg boost (and still get less than melee weapons), the ones in melee range will take all dmg

Gunsnroll.2657:

I know you don’t want to range afk, it was just to make a point.
While you’ll be ranging to benefit from the dmg boost (and still get less than melee weapons), the ones in melee range will take all dmg

Yeah you’re right. But that’s why I think melee does more damage, because of the risk.

But the way I see it is, regardless of if you’re a melee or a ranged, everyone is apart of the same team accomplishing the same goal. Why would you not want your boons to help them and their boons helping you? It would only make the goal attained that much quicker for this less effective tactic.

dlmoore.7293:

spoj.9672:

Seems you misunderstand. The meta would change to having lbow ranger (rapid fire is op now) and staff eles at max range with the rest of the party in melee. So yes my points are completely valid.

Are you actually going to answer my questions by the way? Because until you do you havent actually given a valid reason for such a change.

There isn’t a question that you have asked that I haven’t addressed. If you expect me to answer loaded questions the same way I respond to reasonable questions then please just stop posting here.

You said yourself that range does less damage than melee. Why would longbow ranger be the new meta then? As I pointed out, there are things that a longbow ranger wouldn’t have access to or be able to do for their team. For example, no guardian symbols or mesmer null field effects. Also they wouldn’t provide warhorn 5, or healing spring for the team (assuming they stay at 1000+ range).

Neither you or Leo have posted answers to the following questions.

Why should ranging have no disadvantages? And to be more specific. Why should it have no disadvantages in effectiveness when its the far safer option? Why should you be rewarded for causing problems for teammates who are meleeing?

I did not say that melee is better than range. Most melee weapons do have advantage of damage as Ena said. However the highest damage build in the game is staff ele. And the recent changes to ranger longbow made it incredibly powerful for burst. However the auto attack is designed for max range. With your suggestion both its 8 second cooldown burst and max range auto dmg become a pretty op combo.

Its a reasonable question. What disadvantages are there once your suggestion is implemented? Also how about answering the second question? Thats a valid concern which you seem to be overlooking.

Because all i can see as a result. Ranging gets to have near best if not the best damage while being completely safe. Remaining players have increased risk as they have the boss focusing on less players. The aggro is shared by melees and ignores the rangers. Melees have less players to ress people in the danger zone.

You are basically asking to encourage selfish play. Please explain to me how I am wrong. Because i honestly cant understand how you think its a fair idea. And by the looks of it everyone else agrees with me. This is not a loaded question. I am genuinely curious to your thought process. Because to me its completely baffling.

https://i.imgur.com/9thZ42S.gif

dlmoore.7293:

spoj.9672:

dlmoore.7293:

spoj.9672:

Seems you misunderstand. The meta would change to having lbow ranger (rapid fire is op now) and staff eles at max range with the rest of the party in melee. So yes my points are completely valid.

Are you actually going to answer my questions by the way? Because until you do you havent actually given a valid reason for such a change.

There isn’t a question that you have asked that I haven’t addressed. If you expect me to answer loaded questions the same way I respond to reasonable questions then please just stop posting here.

You said yourself that range does less damage than melee. Why would longbow ranger be the new meta then? As I pointed out, there are things that a longbow ranger wouldn’t have access to or be able to do for their team. For example, no guardian symbols or mesmer null field effects. Also they wouldn’t provide warhorn 5, or healing spring for the team (assuming they stay at 1000+ range).

Neither you or Leo have posted answers to the following questions.

Why should ranging have no disadvantages? And to be more specific. Why should it have no disadvantages in effectiveness when its the far safer option? Why should you be rewarded for causing problems for teammates who are meleeing?

I did not say that melee is better than range. Most melee weapons do have advantage of damage as Ena said. However the highest damage build in the game is staff ele. And the recent changes to ranger longbow made it incredibly powerful for burst. However the auto attack is designed for max range. With your suggestion both its 8 second cooldown burst and max range auto dmg become a pretty op combo.

“Why should ranging have no disadvantages?” is a loaded question. You really aren’t even considering the points that I am making so after this post I am no longer responding to you.

I read your OP. You want better boon sharing so that the guys hiding in the back at 1200 range aren’t as much a drain on their party.

Here is my response: they should be a drain on their party. They should know that and they should feel somewhat bad about it. They should make an effort to learn best practices and implement them if possible. If they can’t, won’t, or don’t care that’s fine but they shouldn’t have their bad choice reinforced with positivity.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

spoj.9672:

Why are some people so determined to change the game to reward bad/unskillful play.

Why should ranging at max range have no disadvantages? Can you give me a good reason?

You should play how he wants, isn’t that enough ?

This is true. If bearbow rangers want to pull aggro, making the fight longer and substantially more annoying, then it must be, because they’re playing how they want.

In the other hand, it kinda adds a bit of a challenge to have someone pulling aggro and having the mob move away from the group. Not only do you have to deal damage to the enemy, you also have to chase it and be ready to evade when it randomly decides to give up on the chase.

Hue.

dlmoore.7293:

hybrid.5027:

dlmoore.7293:

spoj.9672:

dlmoore.7293:

spoj.9672:

Seems you misunderstand. The meta would change to having lbow ranger (rapid fire is op now) and staff eles at max range with the rest of the party in melee. So yes my points are completely valid.

Are you actually going to answer my questions by the way? Because until you do you havent actually given a valid reason for such a change.

There isn’t a question that you have asked that I haven’t addressed. If you expect me to answer loaded questions the same way I respond to reasonable questions then please just stop posting here.

You said yourself that range does less damage than melee. Why would longbow ranger be the new meta then? As I pointed out, there are things that a longbow ranger wouldn’t have access to or be able to do for their team. For example, no guardian symbols or mesmer null field effects. Also they wouldn’t provide warhorn 5, or healing spring for the team (assuming they stay at 1000+ range).

Neither you or Leo have posted answers to the following questions.

Why should ranging have no disadvantages? And to be more specific. Why should it have no disadvantages in effectiveness when its the far safer option? Why should you be rewarded for causing problems for teammates who are meleeing?

I did not say that melee is better than range. Most melee weapons do have advantage of damage as Ena said. However the highest damage build in the game is staff ele. And the recent changes to ranger longbow made it incredibly powerful for burst. However the auto attack is designed for max range. With your suggestion both its 8 second cooldown burst and max range auto dmg become a pretty op combo.

“Why should ranging have no disadvantages?” is a loaded question. You really aren’t even considering the points that I am making so after this post I am no longer responding to you.

I read your OP. You want better boon sharing so that the guys hiding in the back at 1200 range aren’t as much a drain on their party.

Here is my response: they should be a drain on their party. They should know that and they should feel somewhat bad about it. They should make an effort to learn best practices and implement them if possible. If they can’t, won’t, or don’t care that’s fine but they shouldn’t have their bad choice reinforced with positivity.

That would be all fine and dandy if you were dealing with a group of people that you play with often. But for pugs, your pleas often fall on deaf ears. It isn’t even worth the effort trying to explain it to them, especially when you will likely never see them again, much less run a dungeon with them.

If you were talking about pugs who experience dungeons once and never do it again, sure, you may have a point, maybe. Other than that you don’t sound like a player who pugs very much, or haven’t been pugging dungeons for very long.

Pugs in general may not adopt meta immediately but they eventually do. With more experience they do feel the weight of risk v. reward and eventually gravitate towards efficiency. There are some that refuse to change their ways, but they are well in the minority.

Oh God it’s friday evening again. So it begins…

lets cross out first or maybe even second box on my bingo sheet

spoj.9672:

Its a reasonable question. What disadvantages are there once your suggestion is implemented? Also how about answering the second question? Thats a valid concern which you seem to be overlooking.

Because all i can see as a result. Ranging gets to have near best if not the best damage while being completely safe. Remaining players have increased risk as they have the boss focusing on less players. The aggro is shared by melees and ignores the rangers. Melees have less players to ress people in the danger zone.

You are basically asking to encourage selfish play. Please explain to me how I am wrong. Because i honestly cant understand how you think its a fair idea. And by the looks of it everyone else agrees with me. This is not a loaded question. I am genuinely curious to your thought process. Because to me its completely baffling.

Well if it’s that baffling, then that means you aren’t looking at it from his perspective.

As far as loaded questions, thus far you had been asking such questions. And you wonder why people are hesitant to try and answer you squarely?

Regarding the not-loaded question, what disadvantages would exist if you went range? It’s a good question. I would assume the same that currently exist minus the boon sharing. You still end up making a fissure in your team dynamics so if a teammate goes down or you go down, it would be harder to rez them or for them to rez you. Also, if you draw too much attention, you might slow down the melees by kiting the boss around unintentionally. If the boss has reflect, you’re kind of boned because now you can’t hit them.

But on the other side of the coin, currently teams do their might stacking at special times, i.e. before a fight, during a respite in the boss’ actions…then they go about their business up close or further back. Does your concern really focus on what ranged gets or simply where the boon rally occasionally occurs.

Whatever the OP is suggesting, I doubt his attempt is primarily because he’s selfish. If he were truly selfish, he wouldn’t really care what that ranger 1200 distance away (even if it’s him) does, so long as the fight ends and loot is awarded.

hybrid.5027:

Here is my response: they should be a drain on their party. They should know that and they should feel somewhat bad about it. They should make an effort to learn best practices and implement them if possible. If they can’t, won’t, or don’t care that’s fine but they shouldn’t have their bad choice reinforced with positivity.

IMO, this is a far more selfish attitude. To me, it’s putting a ‘meta’ (oooh, the naughty word!) before players not because it is what’s best for the group, but what’s best to conform to some strategy…a strategy that might not be best suited for all the players of your team.

I cant argue with people who dont understand the meta. Its too mentally frustrating to explain everything in detail.

Ill just point out the main disadvantages you mentioned are disadvantages to the melee players not the rangers. Which is once again a case of rewarding players for screwing over their teammates. Why do you want to encourage that?

spoj.9672:

I cant argue with people who dont understand the meta. Its too mentally frustrating to explain everything in detail.

Ill just point out the main disadvantages you mentioned are disadvantages to the melee players not the rangers. Which is once again a case of rewarding players for screwing over their teammates. Why do you want to encourage that?

I honestly hate this argument “oh you don’t understand the meta bleh”. It’s stupid.

It basically boils down your argument to “it goes against my super-733tz strategy so it’s a bad idea” or it pits anything I say vs the reward/greed of players which is not a point I feel like explaining from.

I’ll just say this: you probably think those on the forums that oppose the ‘meta’ are bad players, carebear, or strive to be special snowflakes. Probably true in the general sense, but don’t try to make yourself seem special because you practiced a kitten encounter a few times so you can speed run it. I’ve done it too, in this game and others. You’re not special and drawing a line in the sand so you can place yourself on some high-ground to defend a ‘meta’ (rather preposterous considering metas are subject to change) is only drawing yourself into a corner when things get updated.

That said, I’ll point out, again, that you’ve dismissed the point I made. I addressed your point multiple times: to me, the idea isn’t supposed to reward selfish play or encourage ‘screwing over players’ but to aid everyone on the team in supporting each other.

I can already tell you’re not going to be pleased with that answer, and that’s because it’s the same answer. Once you quit dismissing other people’s answers and respond to them, you might get them to give more answers.

And THAT being said, beyond what you and others in this thread have mentioned, I see a couple of other flaws in the idea thanks to looking at the suggestion from others’ perspectives. But I haven’t the will to mention them because it feels pointless as discussion here feels forced as it is. I already feel I’m typing dissertations here JUST to get people to bother talking about the subject.

dlmoore.7293:

My thought process is that it would allow that double longbow ranger waaayyy over in the corner to gain benefits (namely might) and give some benefits to his or her party, which would make PUGing easier. This would obviously only take effect in dungeon settings (maybe open world I guess). Let me know what you guys think!

There is a design problem that ranger longbows push rangers to long range and then rangers don’t share boons. However in dungeons you just have to accept it as the cost of safe easy play. Melee has more risk, melee gives better reward, that’s the design, and it is mostly right.

If you’re in a casual PUG group then the casual players won’t mind you using a longbow anyway. If you’re in a speed running group then it doesn’t matter what class you play you are expected to bring certain skills for high dps and the ranger is no different in that regard. If you can’t deliver the right skills/dps with one weapon then use another, just like every other class.

Leo G.4501:

spoj.9672:

I cant argue with people who dont understand the meta. Its too mentally frustrating to explain everything in detail.

Ill just point out the main disadvantages you mentioned are disadvantages to the melee players not the rangers. Which is once again a case of rewarding players for screwing over their teammates. Why do you want to encourage that?

I honestly hate this argument “oh you don’t understand the meta bleh”. It’s stupid.

It basically boils down your argument to “it goes against my super-733tz strategy so it’s a bad idea” or it pits anything I say vs the reward/greed of players which is not a point I feel like explaining from.

I’ll just say this: you probably think those on the forums that oppose the ‘meta’ are bad players, carebear, or strive to be special snowflakes. Probably true in the general sense, but don’t try to make yourself seem special because you practiced a kitten encounter a few times so you can speed run it. I’ve done it too, in this game and others. You’re not special and drawing a line in the sand so you can place yourself on some high-ground to defend a ‘meta’ (rather preposterous considering metas are subject to change) is only drawing yourself into a corner when things get updated.

That said, I’ll point out, again, that you’ve dismissed the point I made. I addressed your point multiple times: to me, the idea isn’t supposed to reward selfish play or encourage ‘screwing over players’ but to aid everyone on the team in supporting each other.

I can already tell you’re not going to be pleased with that answer, and that’s because it’s the same answer. Once you quit dismissing other people’s answers and respond to them, you might get them to give more answers.

And THAT being said, beyond what you and others in this thread have mentioned, I see a couple of other flaws in the idea thanks to looking at the suggestion from others’ perspectives. But I haven’t the will to mention them because it feels pointless as discussion here feels forced as it is. I already feel I’m typing dissertations here JUST to get people to bother talking about the subject.

You can think what you want. But people are beyond stubborn on forums. And will refuse to admit they are wrong. Id happily keep going if either of you had a basic grasp of what im talking about. But it seems id have to explain so much that its not worth the effort. So ill just move on and give a basic summary of the original point and a simple question.

The trade off currently is that range is safer so it does less damage (mostly because of buff sharing). If you make buffs work no matter the range. Then that trade off is gone. Classes with very high damage ranged weapons will be able to get max damage with complete safety while also screwing over their teammates.

What justification is there for a change like that?

spoj.9672:

You can think what you want. But people are beyond stubborn on forums. And will refuse to admit they are wrong.

That’s probably a faulty ground to start with.

Looking from the perspective of someone who is wrong, they are much more likely to admit they make a mistake when you’re not trying to ‘prove them wrong’. You see things as a debate to win. You don’t have to, though. The OP posted a suggestion to critique. There’s nothing ‘wrong’ with doing that so you’re going to be at odds of getting them to ‘admit they are wrong’. At best, the basis for the suggestion is skewed so what is the problem attempting to be addressed isn’t being solved. Still doesn’t require someone to be proven wrong, just a different solution.

Im honestly impressed how you keep dodging that question.

spoj.9672:

Why are some people so determined to change the game to reward bad/unskillful play.

Why should ranging at max range have no disadvantages? Can you give me a good reason?

I wish people in general were as good at being concise as you are. -.-

Terrible thread is terrible. If anything there should be even more disadvantages to ranging than there are.

Purple Miku.7032:

spoj.9672:

Why are some people so determined to change the game to reward bad/unskillful play.

Why should ranging at max range have no disadvantages? Can you give me a good reason?

I wish people in general were as good at being concise as you are. -.-

Terrible thread is terrible. If anything there should be even more disadvantages to ranging than there are.

If I didn’t feel as I’m feeling right now, I’d be literally fuming and clenching my fists in frustration. Mr. teapot is right, it’s mentally draining to explain, no, to even read. So tiring.

deSade.9437:

Purple Miku.7032:

spoj.9672:

Why are some people so determined to change the game to reward bad/unskillful play.

Why should ranging at max range have no disadvantages? Can you give me a good reason?

I wish people in general were as good at being concise as you are. -.-

Terrible thread is terrible. If anything there should be even more disadvantages to ranging than there are.

If I didn’t feel as I’m feeling right now, I’d be literally fuming and clenching my fists in frustration. Mr. teapot is right, it’s mentally draining to explain, no, to even read. So tiring.

http://i.imgur.com/lk31SIZ.jpg

Purple Miku.7032:

deSade.9437:

Purple Miku.7032:

spoj.9672:

Why are some people so determined to change the game to reward bad/unskillful play.

Why should ranging at max range have no disadvantages? Can you give me a good reason?

I wish people in general were as good at being concise as you are. -.-

Terrible thread is terrible. If anything there should be even more disadvantages to ranging than there are.

If I didn’t feel as I’m feeling right now, I’d be literally fuming and clenching my fists in frustration. Mr. teapot is right, it’s mentally draining to explain, no, to even read. So tiring.

http://i.imgur.com/lk31SIZ.jpg

<3 <3 Thanks man!

oxtred.7658:

more risks> more rewards

i loled.

’cause that speedo is tabooooooOO

Dem google arguing skills.

Hahah. If you cant answer that question then theres obviously a fault in your logic. Its a pretty reasonable question.

Accusing me of loaded questions just because you cant justify your suggestion is pretty hilarious.

PS. Last night i was almost pulling my hair out with frustration. Which is why i gave that response.