4 hr 2do 1 boss in a raid is unacceptable

4 hr 2do 1 boss in a raid is unacceptable

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: skillze.7689

skillze.7689

having to go threw many players to find a team to do one boss as a pick up group is unacceptable, people dont have time to throw away just to complete something in a fantasy rpg, i have played this game since beta and excelled in everything that its had to offer but your raids are set so high that it take hours of kicking people out of teams (which is just bad for the community) to get a team to complete one boss. and thats without achievements (elitists should not get the green light and they are only a small part of the community). It about time u addressed this issue and stopped listening to the minority and stood up for the people that have stood by you since the start.

(edited by skillze.7689)

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Posted by: Coffietire.2783

Coffietire.2783

Consider finding training runs. No you probably wont get a kill, but you will make yourself known and eventually get involved with a guild with proper communication tools to eventually get the kill.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Just because ppl who dislike harder content complain more that doesnt make them the majority. And by excelled in everything you mean you payed ppl 5-10 gold to do arah for you back in the day? Or Mai trin in under 25 min?

Im sorry if i am rude but no raids are not that hard every pug in this game be it fractals dungeons or raids will over react to a situation and try to min max to no end for encounters that dont need it.

If you dont like this you might as well join guild that do training 1 or 2 times per week like salt, oopsie and so forth.

And may i ask why do you believe that for some reason ppl who want hard content werent there since day 1? The most skilled ppl i k ow are vannila players that had been soloing dungeons for years and low manning them. These ppl asked for more challenging content, its not some kids that cane 3 months before se2 ended and qqed in the forums for the lack of challenging group content.

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Posted by: skillze.7689

skillze.7689

Just because ppl who dislike harder content complain more that doesnt make them the majority. And by excelled in everything you mean you payed ppl 5-10 gold to do arah for you back in the day? Or Mai trin in under 25 min?

Im sorry if i am rude but no raids are not that hard every pug in this game be it fractals dungeons or raids will over react to a situation and try to min max to no end for encounters that dont need it.

If you dont like this you might as well join guild that do training 1 or 2 times per week like salt, oopsie and so forth.

And may i ask why do you believe that for some reason ppl who want hard content werent there since day 1? The most skilled ppl i k ow are vannila players that had been soloing dungeons for years and low manning them. These ppl asked for more challenging content, its not some kids that cane 3 months before se2 ended and qqed in the forums for the lack of challenging group content.

wow see the elitist come out in force, no i didnt pay anyone to get my dungeoneer title and the fact you just flame someone that has supported this game since the start with real money transactions and completed all content just shows how narrowminded you are. people have other responibilities in life and dont have time to throw away just to enjoy content, so its about time anet stop pandering to people like you and realise that alot of the community left because of people like you

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Posted by: skillze.7689

skillze.7689

Consider finding training runs. No you probably wont get a kill, but you will make yourself known and eventually get involved with a guild with proper communication tools to eventually get the kill.

i dont need training run’s, i dont enjoy kicking people out of raids for 4 hours just to complete one raid boss (it kills the community)

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

having to go threw many players to find a team to do one boss as a pick up group is unacceptable, people dont have time to throw away just to complete something in a fantasy rpg, i have played this game since beta and excelled in everything that its had to offer but your raids are set so high that it take hours of kicking people out of teams (which is just bad for the community) to get a team to complete one boss. and thats without achievements (elitists should not get the green light and they are only a small part of the community). It about time u addressed this issue and stopped listening to the minority and stood up for the people that have stood by you since the start.

What is it that you are asking for? The fact that raids can be PUGged at all suggests that they aren’t as difficult as you suggest. The fact that you took 4 hours for a particular wing or encounter doesn’t mean they are tuned too high. In fact, without knowing how you chose the other 9 people, I’m inclined to believe that it’s not as simple as raids being too easy or too hard.

Raids are designed to be challenging content, they aren’t meant to be done by “just any 10 people”; they are setup to require people to know the mechanics, know their professions, and be able to work together.

tl;dr based on the original phrasing in the original post, I don’t see any issue that ANet needs to address.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

I think they might be asking the community to get good ?

Not entirely sure.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Just because ppl who dislike harder content complain more that doesnt make them the majority. And by excelled in everything you mean you payed ppl 5-10 gold to do arah for you back in the day? Or Mai trin in under 25 min?

Im sorry if i am rude but no raids are not that hard every pug in this game be it fractals dungeons or raids will over react to a situation and try to min max to no end for encounters that dont need it.

If you dont like this you might as well join guild that do training 1 or 2 times per week like salt, oopsie and so forth.

And may i ask why do you believe that for some reason ppl who want hard content werent there since day 1? The most skilled ppl i k ow are vannila players that had been soloing dungeons for years and low manning them. These ppl asked for more challenging content, its not some kids that cane 3 months before se2 ended and qqed in the forums for the lack of challenging group content.

wow see the elitist come out in force, no i didnt pay anyone to get my dungeoneer title and the fact you just flame someone that has supported this game since the start with real money transactions and completed all content just shows how narrowminded you are. people have other responibilities in life and dont have time to throw away just to enjoy content, so its about time anet stop pandering to people like you and realise that alot of the community left because of people like you

Lol, like only you have responsibilities. I do my daily fractals with a friend whos has family and 2 kids and only has 2 hours in the evenings to run dailies and raids. How does hi pull it off i wonder.

I myself dont have the time required available and because of that i choose not to dedicate my time soly to raids because there are other things in game i enjoy. If i dont have time to raid i simply dont run them.

I dont go out of my way to ask the devs to change the format and ruin the experience for a part of the community just because i cba to make some time for it take ot slowler and get to smoother and faster kills.

And no im not “elitist” im just telling you that not all content is for everyone and can be completed in the same manners and speed. WHICH. IS. FINE.

Also just because you were here since start does that mean you require soecial treatment? You got that through bday gifts.

Dont bring me arguements of how many gems you spend or if you spend any gems at all because i too buy gems and i too support the game and the devs on the best of my abilities.

I too get to experience releases that are uninterestig to me and borderline annoy me for how unengaging and facroll they are. But you dont see me go out and say “Hey make everything 50% harder and kitten ppl who like it as it is idc i buy gems”.

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

i have played this game since beta and excelled in everything that its had to offer

What exactly did you excel at? Pressing 1? Raids are still too easy in this game.

Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.

There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley

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Posted by: skillze.7689

skillze.7689

I didnt say the raids were difficult, what i said was 4 hours of kicking people out of the group just to complete 1 boss is unacceptable, why do people think i am saying the content is hard or challenging ? you should all get off your high horse and stop thinking i cannot complete the content. any boss in a raid takes less than 15 minutes to do, what i dont enjoy is 4 hours of kicking people out of groups because they cannot do the content.

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Posted by: skillze.7689

skillze.7689

i have played this game since beta and excelled in everything that its had to offer

What exactly did you excel at? Pressing 1? Raids are still too easy in this game.

obviously sarcasm was not your strong point.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Modifying content, which is what you are requesting [“but your raids are set so high that it take hours of kicking people out of teams (which is just bad for the community) to get a team to complete one boss … It about time u addressed this issue…”] is an extreme request when the real issue is your belief that you ought to be able to PuG raids.

If you chose to PuG, you will never know what you’re getting. If you cannot find people who meet your standards by pugging, join or form a raid guild. Pugging content is neither a right nor an entitlement.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

I didnt say the raids were difficult, what i said was 4 hours of kicking people out of the group just to complete 1 boss is unacceptable, why do people think i am saying the content is hard or challenging ? you should all get off your high horse and stop thinking i cannot complete the content. any boss in a raid takes less than 15 minutes to do, what i dont enjoy is 4 hours of kicking people out of groups because they cannot do the content.

Then find another way to complete the content, as many others have. Whatever you are doing to find people isn’t working. If it’s as easy as you say to complete the encounters, try lower size parties with higher-skilled people. Or try asking questions before committing to the attempt. Or organize a static group. Or join an experienced raid community, such as the one listed on the front page of the gw2 subreddit.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Mel.3064

Mel.3064

It is a learn to play issue, even average groups clear all 4 wins in 4 hours. Good groups in about 2 hours. So there is no reason for you to need 4h for one boss.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

It is a learn to play issue, even average groups clear all 4 wins in 4 hours. Good groups in about 2 hours. So there is no reason for you to need 4h for one boss.

I think the OP is saying it’s not the encounter that’s taking a long time, it’s finding 10 people who can do the encounters (rather than just claim that they can). So it’s more of a “learn to find a group” issue, rather than “learn to play.” And to be fair, figuring out how to get good groups is a perennial issue for gamers and non-gamers alike.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: xarallei.4279

xarallei.4279

So….you want the content nerfed to the ground so that you can find groups more easily? I hope I’m reading this wrong. o_O Cause if not, that is kind of insane.

Raids are meant to be difficult content. And people love raids for that. Nerfing raids defeats the purpose of their existence. Yes, finding a group in lfg can be very frustrating to be sure. But nerfing the content to “solve” this issue is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If you want to raid more reliably you really need to find a raiding guild. Or get on discord and join Raiders Inn or other groups like that.

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Posted by: Zem.4139

Zem.4139

zealex.9410 , actually , less than 5% of player from gw2 can done raid.
Its not a majority.
all other casual can die and uninstall gw2.

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Posted by: Grok Krog.9581

Grok Krog.9581

Considering how raids in other games are, 4 hours isn’t unreasonable.

My coworker just spent 3 days of like 12 hours of straight raiding on the new Savage Mode Raid or whatever in Final Fantasy 14 to complete it

Grok Walking Amongst Mere Mortals

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

zealex.9410 , actually , less than 5% of player from gw2 can done raid.
Its not a majority.
all other casual can die and uninstall gw2.

I will be here for the scource of those numbers when you can provide them

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Posted by: Vargamonth.2047

Vargamonth.2047

Considering this is a weekend post, maybe the problem is actually on the next to zero incentive we have to replay raid content.
Most experienced raiders clear their wings at the beginning of the week. Weeked playerbase is a lot more “diverse”.
Another option would be to put the reset on, lets say, Saturday.

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Posted by: maxwelgm.4315

maxwelgm.4315

The OP did not help his own case very much, but it is a very good case. As I see it, he’s not complaining about raid difficulty per se, but rather he is complaining about how hard it is to group up with 10 others who can actually run through the content. This is a very hard issue to tackle and Anet did recognize officially that it was an issue.

Saying it wasn’t meant to be pugged, if Anet did think like this at first, surely was a shot on their own feet: the whole kitten game is based on pugging LFG or joining randoms in maps to do events, why the kitten would you break with expectations so abruptly? And then again, the encounters are not hard enough to actually make that claim valid: raids can and I would even say should be pugged by many, just like CM Fractals. The idea of guilds and static groups is awesome, but chances are that you are playing GW2 and not other MMOs precisely because it didn’t require commitment at specific (and often massive if you think of games like WoW) time intervals; you pick it up, you play it, you leave it. And if you only come back 3 months later, new content should be learned (and it can, even with raids) in few days at most.

So, even if Anet tells everyone to git gud it doesn’t actually tackle the problem, as I still can’t raid without others who gut gud (and really, most of us didn’t even git gud enough to 3-man VG), and it’s not all that easy to find these people, let alone in weeks where I miss the reset. Finally, this should not be turned into its strawman extreme, I’m not saying there are no groups to be had for raiding at any given time, just that their numbers are increasingly low and will become even more diluted as number of raids increase and population leaves/spread out. It is a dying from its inception mode, unlike fractals that now also present interesting challenge, so I can just play CM everyday instead of raiding, lol.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

The OP did not help his own case very much, but it is a very good case. As I see it, he’s not complaining about raid difficulty per se, but rather he is complaining about how hard it is to group up with 10 others who can actually run through the content. This is a very hard issue to tackle and Anet did recognize officially that it was an issue.

Saying it wasn’t meant to be pugged, if Anet did think like this at first, surely was a shot on their own feet: the whole kitten game is based on pugging LFG or joining randoms in maps to do events, why the kitten would you break with expectations so abruptly? And then again, the encounters are not hard enough to actually make that claim valid: raids can and I would even say should be pugged by many, just like CM Fractals. The idea of guilds and static groups is awesome, but chances are that you are playing GW2 and not other MMOs precisely because it didn’t require commitment at specific (and often massive if you think of games like WoW) time intervals; you pick it up, you play it, you leave it. And if you only come back 3 months later, new content should be learned (and it can, even with raids) in few days at most.

So, even if Anet tells everyone to git gud it doesn’t actually tackle the problem, as I still can’t raid without others who gut gud (and really, most of us didn’t even git gud enough to 3-man VG), and it’s not all that easy to find these people, let alone in weeks where I miss the reset. Finally, this should not be turned into its strawman extreme, I’m not saying there are no groups to be had for raiding at any given time, just that their numbers are increasingly low and will become even more diluted as number of raids increase and population leaves/spread out. It is a dying from its inception mode, unlike fractals that now also present interesting challenge, so I can just play CM everyday instead of raiding, lol.

I can agree proper group finding (in game guild finding/sorting/paramater basis) is an issue that needs desperately to be solved. However i bet that sorta load on their game is something the servers cannot handle without the proper back-end upgrade.

LFG eh, as long as its not automated its fine. Automated LFG should be treated like the redheaded stepchild it is and never remotely be considered for a solution. Community based team content should require an understand and effort from all parties so that a mutual goal can be achieved and automation removes the possibility of this as people feel no desire or attachment to stick around.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

The OP did not help his own case very much, but it is a very good case. As I see it, he’s not complaining about raid difficulty per se, but rather he is complaining about how hard it is to group up with 10 others who can actually run through the content. This is a very hard issue to tackle and Anet did recognize officially that it was an issue.

Saying it wasn’t meant to be pugged, if Anet did think like this at first, surely was a shot on their own feet: the whole kitten game is based on pugging LFG or joining randoms in maps to do events, why the kitten would you break with expectations so abruptly? And then again, the encounters are not hard enough to actually make that claim valid: raids can and I would even say should be pugged by many, just like CM Fractals. The idea of guilds and static groups is awesome, but chances are that you are playing GW2 and not other MMOs precisely because it didn’t require commitment at specific (and often massive if you think of games like WoW) time intervals; you pick it up, you play it, you leave it. And if you only come back 3 months later, new content should be learned (and it can, even with raids) in few days at most.

So, even if Anet tells everyone to git gud it doesn’t actually tackle the problem, as I still can’t raid without others who gut gud (and really, most of us didn’t even git gud enough to 3-man VG), and it’s not all that easy to find these people, let alone in weeks where I miss the reset. Finally, this should not be turned into its strawman extreme, I’m not saying there are no groups to be had for raiding at any given time, just that their numbers are increasingly low and will become even more diluted as number of raids increase and population leaves/spread out. It is a dying from its inception mode, unlike fractals that now also present interesting challenge, so I can just play CM everyday instead of raiding, lol.

Its not a duying game mode as the developers said they want moving on to have the cm in raids be the real challenge and the nornal mode to be the more casual experience. And you can see that with wings like w4 that are incredibly ez. As new raids release and the line between normal amd cm gets bigger more that problem will reduce.

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Posted by: zoomborg.9462

zoomborg.9462

The OP did not help his own case very much, but it is a very good case. As I see it, he’s not complaining about raid difficulty per se, but rather he is complaining about how hard it is to group up with 10 others who can actually run through the content. This is a very hard issue to tackle and Anet did recognize officially that it was an issue.

Saying it wasn’t meant to be pugged, if Anet did think like this at first, surely was a shot on their own feet: the whole kitten game is based on pugging LFG or joining randoms in maps to do events, why the kitten would you break with expectations so abruptly? And then again, the encounters are not hard enough to actually make that claim valid: raids can and I would even say should be pugged by many, just like CM Fractals. The idea of guilds and static groups is awesome, but chances are that you are playing GW2 and not other MMOs precisely because it didn’t require commitment at specific (and often massive if you think of games like WoW) time intervals; you pick it up, you play it, you leave it. And if you only come back 3 months later, new content should be learned (and it can, even with raids) in few days at most.

So, even if Anet tells everyone to git gud it doesn’t actually tackle the problem, as I still can’t raid without others who gut gud (and really, most of us didn’t even git gud enough to 3-man VG), and it’s not all that easy to find these people, let alone in weeks where I miss the reset. Finally, this should not be turned into its strawman extreme, I’m not saying there are no groups to be had for raiding at any given time, just that their numbers are increasingly low and will become even more diluted as number of raids increase and population leaves/spread out. It is a dying from its inception mode, unlike fractals that now also present interesting challenge, so I can just play CM everyday instead of raiding, lol.

Raids are the most popular thing after fractals atm. The only lfg’s that are active from morning to reset. They aren’t dying, if anything else they are on the rise. Also the influx of players after leg armor released and the huge increase on training runs (both lfg, reddit, forum) are just supporting this fact. I’d go as far as to say that pve atm is in the best state it’s ever been since release.

I’m not talking out of my kitten here but from experience and presence. I pug a lot and usually fullclear 2 times a week and i always see new people, driven people that are already performing good without having 300+li.

Because the are no lfg finders and difficulty modes etc the raid community in this game is very packed and unified and the only ones that complain are usually the entitled generation of the pre-hot era where everything was ez and people were showered in rewards for pressing 1.

(edited by zoomborg.9462)

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

The whole kitten game is based on pugging LFG or joining randoms in maps to do events, why the kitten would you break with expectations so abruptly? And then again, the encounters are not hard enough to actually make that claim valid: raids can and I would even say should be pugged by many.

They break up with expectations abruptly because this specific side content or call it niche is not meant for the majority of the playerbase.
It’s design intention was for players wanting the extra challenge. Difficult content that cannot be done pressing 11111 as long as people don’t realize and accept it they are walking the wrong path. 99% of the rest of the game is easy, easy puggable and can be done without effort and organisation. Give the 1% to players who love the challenge, love the team play and love the whole dedication you have to bring to raids.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

The whole kitten game is based on pugging LFG or joining randoms in maps to do events, why the kitten would you break with expectations so abruptly? And then again, the encounters are not hard enough to actually make that claim valid: raids can and I would even say should be pugged by many.

They break up with expectations abruptly because this specific side content or call it niche is not meant for the majority of the playerbase.
It’s design intention was for players wanting the extra challenge. Difficult content that cannot be done pressing 11111 as long as people don’t realize and accept it they are walking the wrong path. 99% of the rest of the game is easy, easy puggable and can be done without effort and organisation. Give the 1% to players who love the challenge, love the team play and love the whole dedication you have to bring to raids.

Maybe in 2012. Fractals are now mini-raids.

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

The whole kitten game is based on pugging LFG or joining randoms in maps to do events, why the kitten would you break with expectations so abruptly? And then again, the encounters are not hard enough to actually make that claim valid: raids can and I would even say should be pugged by many.

They break up with expectations abruptly because this specific side content or call it niche is not meant for the majority of the playerbase.
It’s design intention was for players wanting the extra challenge. Difficult content that cannot be done pressing 11111 as long as people don’t realize and accept it they are walking the wrong path. 99% of the rest of the game is easy, easy puggable and can be done without effort and organisation. Give the 1% to players who love the challenge, love the team play and love the whole dedication you have to bring to raids.

Maybe in 2012. Fractals are now mini-raids.

Oh hey look it’s over-reaction monday in full effect!

It’s also like people are complaining about something they were told was going to happen since HoT’s beta. With raids being their endgame Anet shifted some design (read T4 fractals) to be the stepping stone for Raids.

Calling them all mini raids is quite honestly, silly. You have 3 other tiers to chose from if you cannot do T4.

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Maybe in 2012. Fractals are now mini-raids.

That may be true for 99 & 100 + their respective CMs but overall it’s not yet. Fortunately, Anet stated that they will bring out different fractals in the future and not only boss-to-boss-to-boss ones:

There’s absolutely space for more traditional fractals in the future.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Shattered-Observatory-Feedback/first#post6659295

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

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Posted by: Talindra.4958

Talindra.4958

Took us 2.5hours to clear 13 bosses last night and we took break in between . I pug my raid weekly and need few more weeks to get my third set armour.
Btw. It’s an exponential learning curve for raids. If you don’t hv patience for it. Dont do it. Otherwise you need to be patience .. asking anet to make it easy so you can do it like dungeon run won’t work. You need to fit yourself to it or don’t do it. A friend started only beginning of this year he has demon demise tittle (hard work not paid tittle) and 100 li now. And he does full clear weekly. He never come to forum to cry about how painful it is etc. He just does it. I also hv friends tried and say nope it’s not for them .. no raids. If you want your mastery unlock .. do escort. It’s the easiest raids. You will get it easier .

Champion Magus & Phantom, Demon’s Demise, The Archdesigner.
Death is Energy [DIE] – Gandara EU
Australia

(edited by Talindra.4958)

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

The whole kitten game is based on pugging LFG or joining randoms in maps to do events, why the kitten would you break with expectations so abruptly? And then again, the encounters are not hard enough to actually make that claim valid: raids can and I would even say should be pugged by many.

They break up with expectations abruptly because this specific side content or call it niche is not meant for the majority of the playerbase.
It’s design intention was for players wanting the extra challenge. Difficult content that cannot be done pressing 11111 as long as people don’t realize and accept it they are walking the wrong path. 99% of the rest of the game is easy, easy puggable and can be done without effort and organisation. Give the 1% to players who love the challenge, love the team play and love the whole dedication you have to bring to raids.

Maybe in 2012. Fractals are now mini-raids.

Ppl wanted lowman stuff and cms are perfect for that if you are refering to those youg ot a point. But t4 is not 5 man raids dont lie to ourselves.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Maybe in 2012. Fractals are now mini-raids.

That may be true for 99 & 100 + their respective CMs but overall it’s not yet. Fortunately, Anet stated that they will bring out different fractals in the future and not only boss-to-boss-to-boss ones:

There’s absolutely space for more traditional fractals in the future.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Shattered-Observatory-Feedback/first#post6659295

I dont believe a boss to boss to boss design should be connected this heavily with raids. Its a diff format from the existing one thats just it. You think anet cant make traditionaly designed fractal a stepping stone to raids?

4 hr 2do 1 boss in a raid is unacceptable

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Posted by: Talindra.4958

Talindra.4958

I hv seen a lot a lot of casual players tht just like to relax in gw2 particularly in my guild.. so recently planned to make training escort to at help them to unlock achievement and mastery. There are guild out there that helps. Many weird training time and so on. You will find one that fits.
Anyway are u in eu? If so you might be able to join our escort just to unlock mastery if you are interested.

Champion Magus & Phantom, Demon’s Demise, The Archdesigner.
Death is Energy [DIE] – Gandara EU
Australia

(edited by Talindra.4958)

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

I dont believe a boss to boss to boss design should be connected this heavily with raids. Its a diff format from the existing one thats just it. You think anet cant make traditionaly designed fractal a stepping stone to raids?

Don’t know why you – again – quote my post and start to argue about things I haven’t said or intended. It’s better if you don’t quote them in the future until you have understood what I was referring to.

1. In this case the forist wrote it’s a shift into mini raids.
2. I agreed
3. I showed him a quote that Anet has “absolutely space for more traditional fractals in the future.”
4. So, it’s possible that we won’t get a mini raid the next time or later.

I’ll add that the actual Swamp revamp with the final boss fight already is enough to be a stepping stone into raids. Anet was using the term “stepping stone into raids” exactly for this specific revamp.
So yeah, if you can handle bloomhunger you will be able to handle the easier raid encounters like Escort, Mursaat Overseer, Cairn, VG, Trio and Samarog.
Don’t come up that harder ones were needed to be a stepping stone for raids.
And before you don’t understand again: I have nothing against the difficulty of the new fractal or the CM and already did it by myself. I’m just stating that it’s a lie that this fractal is a must to bring people into raids. If you could handle the older ones well you were already able to raid successfully.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

(edited by Vinceman.4572)

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

I dont believe a boss to boss to boss design should be connected this heavily with raids. Its a diff format from the existing one thats just it. You think anet cant make traditionaly designed fractal a stepping stone to raids?

Don’t know why you – again – quote my post and start to argue about things I haven’t said or intended. It’s better if you don’t quote them in the future until you have understood what I was referring to.

1. In this case the forist wrote it’s a shift into mini raids.
2. I agreed
3. I showed him a quote that Anet has “absolutely space for more traditional fractals in the future.”
4. So, it’s possible that we won’t get a mini raid the next time or later.

I’ll add that the actual Swamp revamp with the final boss fight already is enough to be a stepping stone into raids. Anet was using the term “stepping stone into raids” exactly for this specific revamp.
So yeah, if you can handle bloomhunger you will be able to handle the easier raid encounters like Escort, Mursaat Overseer, Cairn, VG, Trio and Samarog.
Don’t come up that harder ones were needed to be a stepping stone for raids.
And before you don’t understand again: I have nothing against the difficulty of the new fractal or the CM and already did it by myself. I’m just stating that it’s a lie that this fractal is a must to bring people into raids. If you could handle the older ones well you were already able to raid successfully.

You implied that the boss to boss to boss format is a raid thing to which i dont fully agree thats all. As for the new fractals I dont think having more than 1 frcatal being a stepping stone is nececerally bad since in 1 fractal you cant possibly cover any wierd type of mechanics raids will throw at you. I dont also think ppl treat the new one as a stepping stone lol i believe the see this as an actual raid.

Imo this Fractal can teach you better to remain focused during the encounter which is also needed in raids. I dont believe swampland got that well enoug imo ofc. Lets say if swamp land could make you ready fr the ez bosses these last 2 can make yo ready for the rest.

Speaking for normal t4 here obv.

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Posted by: nacario.9417

nacario.9417

having to go threw many players to find a team to do one boss as a pick up group is unacceptable, people dont have time to throw away just to complete something in a fantasy rpg, i have played this game since beta and excelled in everything that its had to offer but your raids are set so high that it take hours of kicking people out of teams (which is just bad for the community) to get a team to complete one boss. and thats without achievements (elitists should not get the green light and they are only a small part of the community). It about time u addressed this issue and stopped listening to the minority and stood up for the people that have stood by you since the start.

As someone who doesnt raid (did in the past tho by clearing first wing in pugs) nor have the legendary armor all I can say is this game needs challenging content. Why must all be accessible to everyone, especially when there are good equal alternatives out there such as ascended gear.

If you take away the Journey and focus then you only have left with Skins Wars 2.

It’s the same With the legendary backpiece from spvp, it’s purely time gated, anyone can get it, and thats plain wrong because why cant we have content that rewards those willing to dedicate themselves. Im not talking being upper legendary tier, even platinum would do, but still there is a limit at how casual friendly this game should be – when there are equal options out there for anyone.

Power Ranger PvP
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

having to go threw many players to find a team to do one boss as a pick up group is unacceptable, people dont have time to throw away just to complete something in a fantasy rpg, i have played this game since beta and excelled in everything that its had to offer but your raids are set so high that it take hours of kicking people out of teams (which is just bad for the community) to get a team to complete one boss. and thats without achievements (elitists should not get the green light and they are only a small part of the community). It about time u addressed this issue and stopped listening to the minority and stood up for the people that have stood by you since the start.

As someone who doesnt raid (did in the past tho by clearing first wing in pugs) nor have the legendary armor all I can say is this game needs challenging content. Why must all be accessible to everyone, especially when there are good equal alternatives out there such as ascended gear.

If you take away the Journey and focus then you only have left with Skins Wars 2.

It’s the same With the legendary backpiece from spvp, it’s purely time gated, anyone can get it, and thats plain wrong because why cant we have content that rewards those willing to dedicate themselves. Im not talking being upper legendary tier, even platinum would do, but still there is a limit at how casual friendly this game should be – when there are equal options out there for anyone.

I don’t really care one way or the other but if people find too much of the content beyond their abilities they often decide the game isn’t for them and will abandon it to those it’s meant for. In the 3 guilds im in there are already more than 50% of people that won’t pvp, wvw, raid, or do the new fractals like swamp and nightmare. I have no solutions but I think theres a problem here and expecting people to get better isn’t the answer.

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Posted by: lagrangewei.8516

lagrangewei.8516

having completed legendary armour… my opinion is…

1. there is a lack of reward for 2nd runs which means if you are not there on monday, you are screw…

2. the lfg system suck, you are stuck in a party and wait on them. it would be better if I can tick the boss i want and have something like a quick match system for player that had cleared the boss before.

RAWR~
Feed the Merlion… before the Merlion feed on YOU!

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Posted by: Beorn Raukar.4328

Beorn Raukar.4328

And people are doing 4 man matthias while this guys complains

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Posted by: lagrangewei.8516

lagrangewei.8516

And people are doing 4 man matthias while this guys complains

you confused premade and pug. will you do a 4 man matt with pug?

RAWR~
Feed the Merlion… before the Merlion feed on YOU!

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

And people are doing 4 man matthias while this guys complains

you confused premade and pug. will you do a 4 man matt with pug?

Doesn’t matter, you need to make the right conclusion out of it:
If 4 players can kill a difficult boss there is very much room for 10 men because you have 2.5 times more players. For example you can choose for a third healer and still should be able to have more dps or the ability to kill it.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

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Posted by: Fancypants.9705

Fancypants.9705

Consider finding training runs. No you probably wont get a kill, but you will make yourself known and eventually get involved with a guild with proper communication tools to eventually get the kill.

i dont need training run’s, i dont enjoy kicking people out of raids for 4 hours just to complete one raid boss (it kills the community)

Your whining kills the community. Raids are meant for organized play for experienced groups. If any pug could join a raid group wearing their flashy green gear and defect a wing…. gw2 would be a joke! Juts because you have played since beta doesnt make you privileged. If you want easy content, go do dungeons.

if you dont enjoy kicking people for 4 hours…. have them ping there gear and kp.. its pretty easy.

Next thing you will complain about is how other players are to good in pvp and they should go easier on you…. cause you’ve been playing since beta….

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

Maybe in 2012. Fractals are now mini-raids.

That may be true for 99 & 100 + their respective CMs but overall it’s not yet. Fortunately, Anet stated that they will bring out different fractals in the future and not only boss-to-boss-to-boss ones:

There’s absolutely space for more traditional fractals in the future.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Shattered-Observatory-Feedback/first#post6659295

Thank you for the link. I hope this is a sign I’ll be able to do group content again.

The whole kitten game is based on pugging LFG or joining randoms in maps to do events, why the kitten would you break with expectations so abruptly? And then again, the encounters are not hard enough to actually make that claim valid: raids can and I would even say should be pugged by many.

They break up with expectations abruptly because this specific side content or call it niche is not meant for the majority of the playerbase.
It’s design intention was for players wanting the extra challenge. Difficult content that cannot be done pressing 11111 as long as people don’t realize and accept it they are walking the wrong path. 99% of the rest of the game is easy, easy puggable and can be done without effort and organisation. Give the 1% to players who love the challenge, love the team play and love the whole dedication you have to bring to raids.

Maybe in 2012. Fractals are now mini-raids.

Oh hey look it’s over-reaction monday in full effect!

It’s also like people are complaining about something they were told was going to happen since HoT’s beta. With raids being their endgame Anet shifted some design (read T4 fractals) to be the stepping stone for Raids.

Calling them all mini raids is quite honestly, silly. You have 3 other tiers to chose from if you cannot do T4.

It’s a rough spot for sure since few people do T3 compared to 4 and the rewards are so-so. Wasn’t the case with dungeons back in the day, but that’s not the game today, sadly.

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

(edited by Makai.3429)

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

It’s a rough spot for sure since few people do T3 compared to 4 and the rewards are so-so. Wasn’t the case with dungeons back in the day, but that’s not the game today, sadly.

It was quite literally the same as it is today. If you ignored what people wanted you had a harder time finding groups. Nothing has changed except the sheer number people feeling entitled to being carried for rewards.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

If you PUG, you accept this reality. It’s in fact completely acceptable because the game doesn’t dictate to the people doing those activities what is ‘OK and NOT’. What you find acceptable or not is irrelevant. I mean, the whole idea that you can cobble together 10 people for what is supposed to be ORGANIZED team content, then complain about the consequences of that is nonsensical.

Moral: Don’t PUG if you don’t want to waste your time. Your choice.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

It’s a rough spot for sure since few people do T3 compared to 4 and the rewards are so-so. Wasn’t the case with dungeons back in the day, but that’s not the game today, sadly.

It was quite literally the same as it is today. If you ignored what people wanted you had a harder time finding groups. Nothing has changed except the sheer number people feeling entitled to being carried for rewards.

I don’t want to be carried, which is why I can’t/don’t do T4 or Raids – out of respect for other players and their time. Unfortunately the game is becoming more and more inaccessible to me, which is frustrating. I just wish there were a rewarding mode similar to dungeons from years past.

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

It’s a rough spot for sure since few people do T3 compared to 4 and the rewards are so-so. Wasn’t the case with dungeons back in the day, but that’s not the game today, sadly.

It was quite literally the same as it is today. If you ignored what people wanted you had a harder time finding groups. Nothing has changed except the sheer number people feeling entitled to being carried for rewards.

I don’t want to be carried, which is why I can’t/don’t do T4 or Raids – out of respect for other players and their time. Unfortunately the game is becoming more and more inaccessible to me, which is frustrating. I just wish there were a rewarding mode similar to dungeons from years past.

You mean like dungeons currently are ?
Or Silverwaste, or AB, or Lake Doric or any of the other absurd GpH sources….

Yep the game is certainly moving away from easy content

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

It’s a rough spot for sure since few people do T3 compared to 4 and the rewards are so-so. Wasn’t the case with dungeons back in the day, but that’s not the game today, sadly.

It was quite literally the same as it is today. If you ignored what people wanted you had a harder time finding groups. Nothing has changed except the sheer number people feeling entitled to being carried for rewards.

I don’t want to be carried, which is why I can’t/don’t do T4 or Raids – out of respect for other players and their time. Unfortunately the game is becoming more and more inaccessible to me, which is frustrating. I just wish there were a rewarding mode similar to dungeons from years past.

You mean like dungeons currently are ?
Or Silverwaste, or AB, or Lake Doric or any of the other absurd GpH sources….

Yep the game is certainly moving away from easy content

Dungeons aren’t nearly as rewarding as they used to be, what with the nerfs and inflation. I may give Lake Doric a try, though – hides, I’m assuming?

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Dungeons aren’t nearly as rewarding as they used to be, what with the nerfs and inflation.

This is a factual error people are falling for since it has been spreading around after the first nerf. Since then, Anet has rebalanced the rewards and if you run your dungeons in the same groups like before but now with elite spec etc. you’ll actually make more money than in the past.
Dungeons just aren’t popular anymore because they are old content. Pick up some gildies/friends and you will see it’s lucrative. It’s not as good as fractal 40 farm and other farming methods in the game but still ok to increase your own pocket. Inflation won’t deny that.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.