Guild Wars 2

So Can we discuss about 4 necro 1 druid meta “again” ? I dont understand the logic behind this. I would prolly change 1 necro into a rev or ps war. Druid in pug is also awful because people never stack properly but that’s not my point here.

I just wanna say 4 necro 1 druid meta is terribad -_-. I’m actually amazed by how many people think it’s good. I’m at NA server, is EU meta also the same?

For perspective:

- Enemy Pulls and Weakness – Reduce the damage output of the majority of monsters save bosses. Epidemic is a critical utility that ignores toughness (which scales a bit as levels progress) which applies the damage and the weakness to enemies to make them less deadly to the group.
- Consistent damage and several layers to protect against death. Conditions have a duration, meaning that albeit certain Power-based Cool-downs might hit for a ridiculous amount of damage, a condition-user has a bit more flexibility, abusing bleed/burning damage for safer kills. The majority of Bleeds/Burn/whatever damaging condition can be applied at a range, a substantial amount of monsters prefer melee. You can imaging the kiting picture…

With toughness scaling and boon steal is gone. I think stacking necros doesn’t work that good anymore.

Add some class that have useful boons like might quickness protection should help the team better.

EU “meta” is pretty much the same. But seriously, that’s old news that sub-optimal group compositions (still) are viewed as “meta”. I still remember stuff like 4 warrs + mesmer, still heavily in use when there were much faster combinations. The current one probably simply is meta for the fact that necros are just faceroll easy and many PUGs are too dumb to adapt to the new instabilities.

gin.7158:

So Can we discuss about 4 necro 1 druid meta “again” ? I dont understand the logic behind this. I would prolly change 1 necro into a rev or ps war. Druid in pug is also awful because people never stack properly but that’s not my point here.

I just wanna say 4 necro 1 druid meta is terribad -_-. I’m actually amazed by how many people think it’s good. I’m at NA server, is EU meta also the same?

It lets you to do a smooth run without wipes in decent time, without hassle with searching good metaparty. Just pop lfg, get it quickly filled and you got your daily run.
Sure, metaparty can do it faster, guild metaparty can do it even more faster, but who cares about extra 5-10 minutes when you can get an easy run in decent time.

It’s partly because the vast majority of pugs will probably take 6 months to realise the toughness scaling is gone. – in my experience pugs take 6 months to pick up on meta changing patches like that.

Also because necro is almost entirely brain dead easy to play.

“meta” doesn’t have to mean fastest clear comp. Easiest clear will always be commonplace in pugs.

Takoyakii.2146:

With toughness scaling and boon steal is gone. I think stacking necros doesn’t work that good anymore.

Add some class that have useful boons like might quickness protection should help the team better.

It’s not that it doesn’t work as well. Its effectiveness is exactly the same. The difference is now other classes aren’t as bad. Their main intention was to allow power builds to be as effective as condition builds.

What they did do was introduce toxic trail and condi bomb instabilities at higher levels, and necros are able to “return to sender” conditions either via minions or plague sending, increasing their DPS at best or just preventing them from dying at worst.

I find that 2 condi necros + 1 druid + 1 guard + 1 ele or 2 condi necro + 1 druid + 1 ele + 1 chrono to be best pug combo right now for t4… not that I consider it meta. My experience in the 4 necro + 1 druid has been fairly bad.

4 Necs + 1 Druid is far from being good, it’s just really difficult to die as death magic necro, especially if you go even more overkill with rise and whatnot. The druid makes it virtually impossible to die. Since you have ranged dps and your minions are basically free dps, it makes it easy to get some sort of okay-ish dps without much effort. Good dps/actual good useage of utility skills takes much more of course, but those groups don’t care about it at all, they just wanna get through easy; this comp enables them to.

We’ve been using 3 Necro + 1 Druid + 1 Condi-PS / Condi Rev and it has worked fine. I’m not going to claim that it’s the best comp for fast kills because it wasn’t that even before, but it’s certainly easy as hell. Stack condis and epidemic. Get Minions. Not much else to it.

TheFantasticGuy.7206:

I find that 2 condi necros + 1 druid + 1 guard + 1 ele or 2 condi necro + 1 druid + 1 ele + 1 chrono to be best pug combo right now for t4… not that I consider it meta. My experience in the 4 necro + 1 druid has been fairly bad.

my ps power warrior seems to do just fine and extremely good damage.

gin.7158:

So Can we discuss about 4 necro 1 druid meta “again” ? I dont understand the logic behind this. I would prolly change 1 necro into a rev or ps war. Druid in pug is also awful because people never stack properly but that’s not my point here.

I just wanna say 4 necro 1 druid meta is terribad -_-. I’m actually amazed by how many people think it’s good. I’m at NA server, is EU meta also the same?

I think you’re confusing ‘meta’ with ‘popular’ and/or with ‘good’. It’s a popular choice because it works regardless of player skill. That doesn’t make it efficient or even good; it just makes it safe.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

gin.7158:

So Can we discuss about 4 necro 1 druid meta “again” ? I dont understand the logic behind this. I would prolly change 1 necro into a rev or ps war. Druid in pug is also awful because people never stack properly but that’s not my point here.

I just wanna say 4 necro 1 druid meta is terribad -_-. I’m actually amazed by how many people think it’s good. I’m at NA server, is EU meta also the same?

I think you’re confusing ‘meta’ with ‘popular’ and/or with ‘good’. It’s a popular choice because it works regardless of player skill. That doesn’t make it efficient or even good; it just makes it safe.

Which makes it impossible to find a fractal pug recruiting anything but condi necros.

I’m gonna start pugging fractals as a power necro for teh lulz.

It’s basically efficiency. It doesn’t matter whether there is a druid in the comp as long as the majority is necros. Other than that i like having druid+chrono+3 necros, probably best setup i ever run on fractals.

A lot of classes like wars/thieves/eles have major weaknesses in T4 fracs that can be overcome through player skill. Unfrortunately the small amount of players with that skill is already rolling necros for fractals so most runs with random classes end up taking too long or they never clear.

Suffice to say that when running fractals with guildies it’s a different matter entirely since most people know their stuff.

Probably more about consistency rather than efficiency.

The overall design of the encounters in fractals mostly leads to condi necromancers by a process of elimination. You probably wouldn’t use them on speed runs but the aim of t4 fractal pugs is just to finish them with the least death possible. Melee is bad on over half the bosses. 12k hp is bad. Being able to hit multiple targets is good. Being able to hit moving targets is good.

Quarktastic.1027:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

gin.7158:

So Can we discuss about 4 necro 1 druid meta “again” ? I dont understand the logic behind this. I would prolly change 1 necro into a rev or ps war. Druid in pug is also awful because people never stack properly but that’s not my point here.

I just wanna say 4 necro 1 druid meta is terribad -_-. I’m actually amazed by how many people think it’s good. I’m at NA server, is EU meta also the same?

I think you’re confusing ‘meta’ with ‘popular’ and/or with ‘good’. It’s a popular choice because it works regardless of player skill. That doesn’t make it efficient or even good; it just makes it safe.

Which makes it impossible to find a fractal pug recruiting anything but condi necros.

I’m gonna start pugging fractals as a power necro for teh lulz.

Power necro is my main in fractals. Never had an issue with not being allowed into a squad that didnt specify condi necro. Hell some squads just want any necro lol.

sophiewhite.3149:

TheFantasticGuy.7206:

I find that 2 condi necros + 1 druid + 1 guard + 1 ele or 2 condi necro + 1 druid + 1 ele + 1 chrono to be best pug combo right now for t4… not that I consider it meta. My experience in the 4 necro + 1 druid has been fairly bad.

my ps power warrior seems to do just fine and extremely good damage.

Oh, yeah, there’s no problem there for me, I just don’t see many warriors in high level fractals anymore. For that matter I see more DDs and Chronos than PS Berserkers.

FrostDraco.8306:

Quarktastic.1027:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

gin.7158:

So Can we discuss about 4 necro 1 druid meta “again” ? I dont understand the logic behind this. I would prolly change 1 necro into a rev or ps war. Druid in pug is also awful because people never stack properly but that’s not my point here.

I just wanna say 4 necro 1 druid meta is terribad -_-. I’m actually amazed by how many people think it’s good. I’m at NA server, is EU meta also the same?

I think you’re confusing ‘meta’ with ‘popular’ and/or with ‘good’. It’s a popular choice because it works regardless of player skill. That doesn’t make it efficient or even good; it just makes it safe.

Which makes it impossible to find a fractal pug recruiting anything but condi necros.

I’m gonna start pugging fractals as a power necro for teh lulz.

Power necro is my main in fractals. Never had an issue with not being allowed into a squad that didnt specify condi necro. Hell some squads just want any necro lol.

Do you run reaper in fractals? Melee gets punished really hard in T4, and the reaper’s only real ranged option is Axe…

The best syngergy coming out of 4 nec 1 druid is that the druid can recharge its celestial form almost instantly by healing minions and in turns necros will ramp up toughness TREMENDOUSLY with their minions constantly being healed and grow in number. Plus an army of 50+ minions will act as a very good meat shield.

It’s the safest while also highly effective and synergetic comb

As DavyMcB said druid in 4 necro party is not that much for healing as for healing minions. A lot of minions→more bleeding→more dps→faster kills→smaller window for mistake. Also necors dont loose a lot of HP so druid can heal each one individually.

4necro+druid is not optimal TBH, you can do it faster with other comps(ele+ps+2x nec+druid/guard do it faster from my experience) but its safe. And in pug environment safer also means faster because you avoid a lot of wipes

I personally hate the 1 Druid + 4 Reaper composition.

Ideally I would run 1 Druid, 1 PS, 1 Chrono then mix Ele’s and Reaper’s.

FrostDraco.8306:

Quarktastic.1027:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

gin.7158:

So Can we discuss about 4 necro 1 druid meta “again” ? I dont understand the logic behind this. I would prolly change 1 necro into a rev or ps war. Druid in pug is also awful because people never stack properly but that’s not my point here.

I just wanna say 4 necro 1 druid meta is terribad -_-. I’m actually amazed by how many people think it’s good. I’m at NA server, is EU meta also the same?

I think you’re confusing ‘meta’ with ‘popular’ and/or with ‘good’. It’s a popular choice because it works regardless of player skill. That doesn’t make it efficient or even good; it just makes it safe.

Which makes it impossible to find a fractal pug recruiting anything but condi necros.

I’m gonna start pugging fractals as a power necro for teh lulz.

Power necro is my main in fractals. Never had an issue with not being allowed into a squad that didnt specify condi necro. Hell some squads just want any necro lol.

It’s mine as well, and maybe 25% of the time someone gives me attitude for it. I have on occasion gone scepter in my marauder’s gear and power build because I couldn’t be bothered to argue or change my build.

Took me 35 minutes to do T4 fractals last night, I just want to get them done.

meta pug tactics have never been about speed, they are all about:
-consistency (no wiping)
-no communication necessary

If you want fast runs, don’t pug. If you want reliable runs that don’t involve wiping, run a pug carry build. It happens to be the case that necro has fantastic pug carrying ability in fractals, just as ps war does in dungeons. Remember 4 warrior 1 mesmer meta? lol. People love stacking a bunch of the best pug carry builds and calling it meta.

Also I want to stress in case Anet is reading this, necro is not OP, the reason necro is used is because fractals are practically designed for necro. The way to remedy this is to make more fractals that are more favorable to the melee users.

4 necros 1 druid does around 85% of the dps of a full dps comp (maybe more like 75% now that toughness scaling is gone).

but to play that full dps comp, you need 5 people on top of their game all on different classes, and if you dont have those 5 people who know how to not only put out dps but also not die while doing so, then someone will drag the group down.

with 4 necros 1 druid, all people need is to have fought the fights a couple times before. cuz aint no kitten gonna die while he droolin on his necros skill bar.

its faster when you can make no guarantees about the rest of your group. thats why its a pug thing.

you wanna get away from it? find a speed run guild. until you do, stop doing a disservice to your fellow pugs by dying while you try to kitten out dps (good job if you arent).

insanemaniac.2456:

you wanna get away from it? find a speed run guild. until you do, stop doing a disservice to your fellow pugs by dying while you try to kitten out dps (good job if you arent).

So true, so true. Just did T4 runs with a guard who never changed his utility from Bane/ToF/PoB and a mesmer who ran i-don’t-know-what (but hardly any wells and no reflects). Guess stuff like reflection is overrated for fractals like underground.

Oh wait, for some reason, quite a bunch of people went down. Must be magic.

PUG druid is terrible…YOU DON’T WANT A DRUID IN PUGS. 99.99% of the druids I pug with are bearbow and stay far pew pew pew with signets.

Yuiii.1278:

PUG druid is terrible…YOU DON’T WANT A DRUID IN PUGS. 99.99% of the druids I pug with are bearbow and stay far pew pew pew with signets.

terrible druid is terrible.
Technically unrelated to being a pug or not.
A competent druid (helps) makes it faceroll.

Probably the fastest t4 clear I have ever had… Healing Druid, condi necromancer, fresh air ele, PS war, and chronomancer. All three in 20 mins.

TheFantasticGuy.7206:

sophiewhite.3149:

TheFantasticGuy.7206:

I find that 2 condi necros + 1 druid + 1 guard + 1 ele or 2 condi necro + 1 druid + 1 ele + 1 chrono to be best pug combo right now for t4… not that I consider it meta. My experience in the 4 necro + 1 druid has been fairly bad.

my ps power warrior seems to do just fine and extremely good damage.

Oh, yeah, there’s no problem there for me, I just don’t see many warriors in high level fractals anymore. For that matter I see more DDs and Chronos than PS Berserkers.

probably because the high skill wall. not really any defensive abilities but all offensive. so dieing is super easy to just a few hits. and some bosses that 3 hit you and you cant even attack really with melee. im looking at you chaos!

Sykper.6583:

……..toughness (which scales a bit as levels progress)

Nope

Nothing has changed, i did my fracs today and i was with 3 necros and 1 druid. today we had old tom, aetherblade, and the molten boss.

The reason i say old tom is because the 3 necros stacked minions so the robot couldnt hit us and the druid out healed the room dps. We didnt use the fans and the necros easily stacked over 100 bleeds on top of other condi.

Who honestly thought the toughness scaling changed anything? It makes it better for Zerk/maruder characters to do fracs but when nothing else is changed the meta stays the meta.

On the aetherblade frac the 3 necros lived threw the robots and laser fields and simply stacked condi on all the robots with epi and killed the bots in about 30 sec.

Now the molten boss was hilarious, alot of groups without necros can struggle when the little lava monsters pop and he goes into ball form. They immediately broke his ball form and epi the lava monsters and they almost all died in like 10 sec.

There is literally no straight power build that even compares to amount of damage a necro can put out in fractals/dungeons/raids.

We never could stack condi when dungeons where the big thing to run. Now you can stack condi like candy in the back of a van on halloween.

We have druids/ele that can out heal areas of the game for fracs. We have necros that can spread condi out faster then power players can smash the 1 button.

Ive said this for PvP but it applies to frac/ dungeons/ and core tyria.

When the game is based around raid builds the game will break. I know way more people who dont raid then do raid and the devs in the game are changing skills in the game for raids. I understand that dungeons were messed up because they didnt balance around dungeons and now they are incredibly easy but meta builds are super OP now. You are having the same raid builds across the game. At no point does changing toughness level change what they have done to balance to the game.