Guild Wars 2

Did u saw in lfg ppl who wanna have only guards? I hope anet will fix the reeason why the do that, someone told me about a trait for make more dmg on symbols, dunno but is orrible see lfg like that

Yeah, there is a trait that offer +10% dmg on enemies inside a symbol.
The problem is that if you put more symbol, the dmg increase and with 5 guards it’s kinda op.
It should be fixed alongside to engi grenades

Even if they fix the symbol trait bug the build will be really quite viable. Perma-protection, perma-quickness, significant passive healing, good might stacking etc make it rather easy mode even still.

NikeEU.7690:

Even if they fix the symbol trait bug the build will be really quite viable. Perma-protection, perma-quickness, significant passive healing, good might stacking etc make it rather easy mode even still.

Ya, but the goal is not to break the build, is just that Stacking 5 Guardian shouldn’t be an op strategy like right now. Anyway, it’s a minor problem that will be fix eventually. Not a big deal unless they don’t fix it for like a couple of months.

Thaddeus.4891:

NikeEU.7690:

Even if they fix the symbol trait bug the build will be really quite viable. Perma-protection, perma-quickness, significant passive healing, good might stacking etc make it rather easy mode even still.

Ya, but the goal is not to break the build, is just that Stacking 5 Guardian shouldn’t be an op strategy like right now. Anyway, it’s a minor problem that will be fix eventually. Not a big deal unless they don’t fix it for like a couple of months.

But Nike is right, even with the fix this guardianway-build will do a decent amount of damage and still bring perma protection, aegis and reflects. All that defense allows you to basically play brain-afk and you will still have an easy game.
Even a Cooldown-reduction wouldnt do much, because not many fights last longer than 25s.
At least the fury should be completely removed from the shout.

I don’t want to see lfgs “lf 5 guardians only”, like it is already happening, in the future.

Thaddeus.4891:

Not a big deal unless they don’t fix it for like a couple of months.

Months? I see you’re an optimist.

Lendruil.9061:

Thaddeus.4891:

NikeEU.7690:

Even if they fix the symbol trait bug the build will be really quite viable. Perma-protection, perma-quickness, significant passive healing, good might stacking etc make it rather easy mode even still.

Ya, but the goal is not to break the build, is just that Stacking 5 Guardian shouldn’t be an op strategy like right now. Anyway, it’s a minor problem that will be fix eventually. Not a big deal unless they don’t fix it for like a couple of months.

But Nike is right, even with the fix this guardianway-build will do a decent amount of damage and still bring perma protection, aegis and reflects. All that defense allows you to basically play brain-afk and you will still have an easy game.
Even a Cooldown-reduction wouldnt do much, because not many fights last longer than 25s.
At least the fury should be completely removed from the shout.

I don’t want to see lfgs “lf 5 guardians only”, like it is already happening, in the future.

Well, yeah, that’s the entire emphasis of the build: easy mode. If your goal is to get through the content as lazily as possible then the 5-Guard comp will remain the go-to comp. However, if you’re looking for faster kills or record times you’re still going to want the more diverse comp (once they fix the bug, at least).

I get the feeling it’s like the 4w1m of old – but better.

This will be fixed in a hurry. Group events like teq have been turned into a laughing stock.

I posted a thread that had this information in it yesterday, and was infracted for it.

NikeEU.7690:

Even if they fix the symbol trait bug the build will be really quite viable. Perma-protection, perma-quickness, significant passive healing, good might stacking etc make it rather easy mode even still.

Funfact, I played a build like this 2- 2,5 years ago. No regret! Kappa

Back there the symbol heal + perma protection was really strong, could carry everything with 2 guards like this in fractals. Now with the quickness it’s even stronger. So even if they fix SA, for easy mode fractals and stuff, you can still run it.

Agreed w/ Thorwyn, I’ve been playing hammer guard for a long time, Hammer Guards are awesome.
Besides, why should it matter to you when other people post 5 Guard teams? I agree, seeing Guard-only posted by newbs who just recently decided to put hammer’s on their guardians is.. /meh.. but hey, it doesn’t affect you, nor me.
We’re welcome to post for w/e team comp we want, zerk/META/Ranger only/Open-to-all, whatever. So why complain about other people’s preferences? Yeah it’s broken, but not much difference with taking ele/icebow spike party and still killing stuff in seconds with big AOE + Blinds + vuln + w/e.

I am kinda curious what will happen if the guardianway stays for a few months and if any anti-PHIW-ers will become PHIWers and start complaining about how they feel like they can’t play other comps because of how “slow” it is.

It is happening…

ThyShadowPaladin.9521:

Agreed w/ Thorwyn, I’ve been playing hammer guard for a long time, Hammer Guards are awesome.
Besides, why should it matter to you when other people post 5 Guard teams? I agree, seeing Guard-only posted by newbs who just recently decided to put hammer’s on their guardians is.. /meh.. but hey, it doesn’t affect you, nor me.
We’re welcome to post for w/e team comp we want, zerk/META/Ranger only/Open-to-all, whatever. So why complain about other people’s preferences? Yeah it’s broken, but not much difference with taking ele/icebow spike party and still killing stuff in seconds with big AOE + Blinds + vuln + w/e.

Because people are silly. We sit here and tell the anti-zerk people to post for their own groups but then we complain when things like this happen. That said I still want this bug fixed because I want to be able to group with multiple guardians and not have… this without having to drop a trait that I should be able to take.

ThyShadowPaladin.9521:

Besides, why should it matter to you when other people post 5 Guard teams? I agree, seeing Guard-only posted by newbs who just recently decided to put hammer’s on their guardians is.. /meh.. but hey, it doesn’t affect you, nor me.

It doesn’t affect us if some people like to run suboptimal 5 guards group just because they like it or find it super easy.

But it’s a problem when 4 Guards/1 Warrior have :
- Perma Quickness
- Perma Fury
- 25 Might
- Decent Vulnerability
- High Damage because of the stacking modifier
- High defensive ability

A 4 Guards/1 Warrior just sacrifice too little to gain too much. I think that just removing the fury from the shout and fixing the stacking bug should be good enough.

So I went ahead and… tried it for myself. Whoa, that was an amazing experience.
First, I’m glad to see that pugs are able to adapt and successfuly execute meta strategies in such a short time, even if it’s just a temporary game-breaking meta.
This definitely changes things. Not much skill or gameplay required, you rarely have to dodge and DPS is by far superior to any other tactics, that involves even remotely as much effort.
Even though Anet generally doesn’t care about PvE, this is actually so gamebreaking that I expect them to patch it very soon, so… enjoy it while it lasts.

I don’t know what was your experience, but the people I got from LFG were pretty good. Despite using this “cheezy” tactics, they apparently knew the dungeons pretty well and were perfectly aware of how things work, so it was not just mindlessly copying the meta.

As stated above… let the people have fun. We don’t know how much time have we got, so use it while you can. I bet most of us don’t do dungeons for the challenge anymore anyway, so I’m glad I can now safely pug my way through the daily routine and grab the reward so quickly without having to worry about wiping constantly.

I don’t want ANet to nerf it, and if any1 has a problem with it, just start your own group and say “LF XXXX,no guardianway”

I’ve got no problem with the rest of the build remaining after the damage mod stacking is fixed. Easy mode builds already exist, and are balanced by being slower than organized min/maxed comps. Unless 5 guards still manages to outdamage 2-3 ele comps after the fix, I really won’t care.

Thaddeus.4891:

ThyShadowPaladin.9521:

Besides, why should it matter to you when other people post 5 Guard teams? I agree, seeing Guard-only posted by newbs who just recently decided to put hammer’s on their guardians is.. /meh.. but hey, it doesn’t affect you, nor me.

It doesn’t affect us if some people like to run suboptimal 5 guards group just because they like it or find it super easy.

But it’s a problem when 4 Guards/1 Warrior have :
- Perma Quickness
- Perma Fury
- 25 Might
- Decent Vulnerability
- High Damage because of the stacking modifier
- High defensive ability

A 4 Guards/1 Warrior just sacrifice too little to gain too much. I think that just removing the fury from the shout and fixing the stacking bug should be good enough.

Why have a warrior? With Empowering might you’ll get your might if all 5 have it.

What amaze me is that it seem that there are people that think this game glitch work as intended…
To be honest I though they would have fixed this tuesday. Seem like OP bug for guard can stay a little longer than OP bug on some other classes. They need to get rid of this imbalanced thing.

Well atleast the wvw croud is abusing this, too, so maybe we have a chance for this to get fixed soon, because of esports and stuff.

It is entirely possible that it is intended to stack. They just didnt consider people having this many symbols going on at the same time (would be pretty stupid if this is the case). So they may fix it to a flat 10% or they may keep it as it is but cap it at 3 symbols or something. Theres no way they will leave it in its current broken state though.

Thaddeus.4891:

ThyShadowPaladin.9521:

Besides, why should it matter to you when other people post 5 Guard teams? I agree, seeing Guard-only posted by newbs who just recently decided to put hammer’s on their guardians is.. /meh.. but hey, it doesn’t affect you, nor me.

It doesn’t affect us if some people like to run suboptimal 5 guards group just because they like it or find it super easy.

But it’s a problem when 4 Guards/1 Warrior have :
- Perma Quickness
- Perma Fury
- 25 Might
- Decent Vulnerability
- High Damage because of the stacking modifier
- High defensive ability

A 4 Guards/1 Warrior just sacrifice too little to gain too much. I think that just removing the fury from the shout and fixing the stacking bug should be good enough.

1 Guard Tank, 1 thief 2 ele, 1 PS war:

Quickness for Spike
Perma Fury
25 Might
Stealth skips
Blinds
Decent vuln, even capped
Massive AOE DPS
Chills
Icebow spikes + Meteor spikes + lava font + FGS + Vuln
High Survival Ability Due to 1 Guard tanking + holding boss, the other 4 can DPS to their hearts content.
High Damage due to class modifiers (Thief atleast 50%+)
etc,etc,etc

^ This team comp also has little Sacrifice w/ alot of gains. So whats the difference?
Anyone can run w/e setup they want and so can you and I.

Isn’t this a “Play as you want” game? If someone want’s to do a 5 Guard team, then they have all the right to. If they want to run 4 Guard 1 War, they have all the right to. If they wan’t to run 5 Ele’s then.. well kitten go in with 5 ele’s.

It’s up to other* people to join them or not in their team’s.————-

I agree with you about the stacking bug though, It’s Overpowered. But seeing as it’s an elite, it should still keep it’s fury. Not like Fury’s a problem w/ most group’s anyway.

I saw 2-3 LFG asking for guardian only … OMG THE END OF THE WORLD

Embrace the change. <3

Lendruil.9061:

Well atleast the wvw croud is abusing this, too, so maybe we have a chance for this to get fixed soon, because of esports and stuff.

Oh man it is kinda beautiful in wvw, so many stacked symbols…gates crumble down so fast!

ThyShadowPaladin.9521:

I agree with you about the stacking bug though, It’s Overpowered. But seeing as it’s an elite, it should still keep it’s fury. Not like Fury’s a problem w/ most group’s anyway.

Maybe I’m just misreading but it sounds like you’re talking about the “Feel My Wrath” as being the stacking bug that’s overpowered. The symbol buff stacking is the real issue. Feel My Wrath just may be a bit too good, but really not worth talking about until this Symbolic Avenger stuff gets settled.

A hypothetical map full of 150 guardians could all do about 1.6 million times their usually damage while standing in symbols… exponential functions are fun!

Ignoring that game breaking bug, I think Feel My Wrath needs to be toned down in some manner: probably by increasing its cool-down to that of individual quickness utilities (about 60s).

Clloydio.3524:

A hypothetical map full of 150 guardians could all do about 1.6 million times their usually damage while standing in symbols… exponential functions are fun!

Ignoring that game breaking bug, I think Feel My Wrath needs to be toned down in some manner: probably by increasing its cool-down to that of individual quickness utilities (about 60s).

I don’t believe it! I say as a community, this should be verified for science.

150 guardians can keep up 300 symbols, at least for a short while. That means Symbolic Avenger triggers 300 times.
The damage is modified to 1.1^300=1,617,717.836 times normal damage (1.6 million).

This is, of course, purely hypothetical, since people in zergs will most likely not play remotely optimal. So practical evidence is not possible.

Jerus.4350:

ThyShadowPaladin.9521:

I agree with you about the stacking bug though, It’s Overpowered. But seeing as it’s an elite, it should still keep it’s fury. Not like Fury’s a problem w/ most group’s anyway.

Maybe I’m just misreading but it sounds like you’re talking about the “Feel My Wrath” as being the stacking bug that’s overpowered. The symbol buff stacking is the real issue. Feel My Wrath just may be a bit too good, but really not worth talking about until this Symbolic Avenger stuff gets settled.

My bad, I meant i Agree with the symbol stacking bug being nerfed, but “Feel My Wrath”, seeing as it’s an elite, should keep it’s fury——

Feel My Wrath isnt that strong on its own. Its only 5 seconds of quickness. Which isnt that much at all. Making the cooldown 40 seconds would probably be enough of a nerf to stop the guard spam after symbol stacking is fixed.

If anyone else noticed, Hammer guard’s aren’t doing that much damage ATM. probbly ninja-nerfed the symbols already.

Not a ninja nerf, they posted it. Just not in notes. LFG still catching up

Well let’s compare Feel my Wrath to time wrap.

Untraited Feel my Wrath is 16% uptime of quickness. Traited it’s 21%.

Untrainted Time Wrap is 6% uptime of quickness. Traited it’s 7%.

Time Wrap give slow to ennemies (which is a plus in pvp, but not really in PvE).
Feel My Wrath give fury (which is a plus in both PvP and PvE).

My point is that Feel My Wrath is more powerful than Time Wrap. Time Wrap used to be a big reason why Mesmer was usefull in dungeon and now Guardian can do it better? I just feel that Feel My Wrath is a bit too overpowered right now.

If we want Feel My Wrath to be more on par with Time Wrap, we would need to have 80 second of cooldown on it to get around 6% Quickness uptime.

Anyway, there is several solution to nerf Feel my Wrath. I don’t mind whatever method, but I just feel it’s a bit too much right now.

Thaddeus.4891:

Well let’s compare Feel my Wrath to time wrap.

Untraited Feel my Wrath is 16% uptime of quickness. Traited it’s 21%.

Untrainted Time Wrap is 6% uptime of quickness. Traited it’s 7%.

Time Wrap give slow to ennemies (which is a plus in pvp, but not really in PvE).
Feel My Wrath give fury (which is a plus in both PvP and PvE).

My point is that Feel My Wrath is more powerful than Time Wrap. Time Wrap used to be a big reason why Mesmer was usefull in dungeon and now Guardian can do it better? I just feel that Feel My Wrath is a bit too overpowered right now.

If we want Feel My Wrath to be more on par with Time Wrap, we would need to have 80 second of cooldown on it to get around 6% Quickness uptime.

Anyway, there is several solution to nerf Feel my Wrath. I don’t mind whatever method, but I just feel it’s a bit too much right now.

I think you are underestimating Slow, and just how much easier it makes runs.

Also completely ignoring length of an average fight. Timewarp has 10 second duration. Which is a significant portion of a boss fight. Which means the low uptime is not really an issue. On the otherhand feel my wrath is quite short so having such a low cool down and better uptime is justified. Also slow is overpowered.

Yeah, but Feel my Wrath is almost 3 times the uptime of Time Wrap + fury. Slow is a defensive ability, which is nice and all, but it’s not really the most important factor. You gonna take the defensive ability you need to get through the content, not more.

Am i really the only one that think that Feel my Wrath need at least a small nerf? Everybody is 100% fine with the current skill?

I agree, Feel my Wrath is way too powerful. If they dont remove the fury and increase the cooldown, the new pugmeta for fractals will be 5 guards only, even with the SA fix.

Yeah its too strong right now. But only by a little. I think you are underestimating how big a hit it would take if the cool down was just raised by 10 seconds.

Let’s also not forget that, even considering fight length, using TW locks you out of using elites for a full 3 minutes. Meanwhile FMW will be ready by the time you get to the next fight.

FWM should have a somewhat higher CD, while TW’s cd is much too long (always has been, IMHO). 60-90s would be plenty.

My point about the fury was that the lack of group wide fury was always a known weakness of the guardian. And for me that weakness was on purpose. The strenght of the guardian was his defensive capability and that should come at the cost of his offensive capability.

That’s why I make sense to me to remove the fury from FMW. It kill two birds with one stone. It’s nerf a little FMW, which is a little overpowered right now, while keeping the Guardian to go too much into offensive support (he already have decent vulnerability and might).

In the same time it keep the identify of FMW as a long cooldown quickness skill compare to the long cooldown Time Wrap.

ok now that 5guardian is nerfed, 3engies,1w,1guard new meta, gogo make it happen!

Don’t forget Thad that Slow is the reason people got the 11s lupi kill. Sure specific case but still, it can be offensive when you consider the implications. Allowing you to continue damaging longer without having to evade/block as often. Just a note though, don’t slow in phase 3 of Lupi, extended lifedrain is a pain

I think 45-60s is good. If you go to 90s I think the duration should increase a few seconds. I know we’re not a PVP thread, but if they want this to be used there that kind of nerf would surely make me drop it and go back to focused renewal where I get all my virtues back as well as invuln. Right now I have increased burst potential vs defensive potential with a hint of offense through virtues.

IMO they should decrease timewarp though, just so long.

FMW is only really powerful in the right setting, as a lone guardian it’s nice, but not OP at all. It’s only when you stack them up. Yes this means there will be an easymode meta of 5 guards, but didn’t that already trivialize Fractals? And isn’t the War/Thief/Guard/Ele/Ele combo just as stupidly good with it’s constant blinds, more than enough projectile defense, perma fury/might, and amazing damage such that each encounter/phase is blown up in seconds. I don’t really see a problem.

No clue why people still care about 5 Guard teams. when there are plenty of other team comp’s that are fare more efficient, Severely Out-DPS & Out-Burst them and more content-flexible. Also, why do you think Fury is OP from an ELITE skill? Most team’s have 1-2 ele’s who can easily blast 1m+ fury in seconds before any fight, or the warrior’s FGJ + Spammable Banner #2 by everyone Pre-fight. FMW, It’s a good elite with no real point in nerfing. There’s better stuff out there.

ThyShadowPaladin.9521:

No clue why people still care about 5 Guard teams. when there are plenty of other team comp’s that are fare more efficient, Severely Out-DPS & Out-Burst them and more content-flexible. Also, why do you think Fury is OP from an ELITE skill? Most team’s have 1-2 ele’s who can easily blast 1m+ fury in seconds before any fight, or the warrior’s FGJ + Spammable Banner #2 by everyone Pre-fight. FMW, It’s a good elite with no real point in nerfing. There’s better stuff out there.

Pretty much this. We all know that a diverse group is gonna be better then a group of just one class in almost every instance. FMW might be a bit strong, but i don’t think its any stronger then some other elites that we have in the game. It was actually nice to have an elite that felt… well powerful.

I wouldn’t mind if timewarp got a lower cool down. It might cause issues with pvp and wvw though.

In the end, for me the people who are running these five man guardian groups are probably not people I want to play with anyway. So rather then worry about what they are doing in their groups, I am gonna stick with players who play like I do. It’s pretty much the advice I give anyone when they complain about Zerker only groups.

FMW should be comparable to both the elites with a similar effect (Time Warp) and the single target abilities with quickness (ranger, warrior, thief utility skills). In that regard the recharge should probably be brought up to 50 or 60 seconds, and the duration of quickness upped to 6 or 7 seconds. TW should’ve probably gotten the glamour treatment, since it is a glamour right now – 20% lower recharge.

ThyShadowPaladin.9521:

No clue why people still care about 5 Guard teams. when there are plenty of other team comp’s that are fare more efficient, Severely Out-DPS & Out-Burst them and more content-flexible. Also, why do you think Fury is OP from an ELITE skill? Most team’s have 1-2 ele’s who can easily blast 1m+ fury in seconds before any fight, or the warrior’s FGJ + Spammable Banner #2 by everyone Pre-fight. FMW, It’s a good elite with no real point in nerfing. There’s better stuff out there.

1) We cared about 5 guards team because there was a broken trait that allowed Guardian to do insane amount of dps. But now I think that trait is simply disabled while they fix it, so no problem anymore.

2) I don’t think fury is OP. I just think that every profession should have a balance between what they can provide. Guardian used to bring defensive support with limited offensive support. But with the new traits and skill they can provide good might, fury and vulnerability, while still giving good defensive support. Fury itself isn’t OP at all. But this give too much tools to the guardian.

3) Feel of Wrath feel a bit too powerful because compare to other quickness skill, it have the highest uptime of them all, while being party wide.

They should have given a skill like that to Necromancers. I don’t see why one of the best professions should get one of the best elites.