Guild Wars 2

A few days ago I saw a lfg for 21, 28 (or whatever daily was) and 32 fractals. I didn’t actually see the little tag “5k AP or kick” until I had already clicked it. I wouldn’t have bothered joining otherwise, but I had just instaclicked when I saw the numbers I wanted.

Ok, my bad for not fully reading. they, of course, insta kicked me.

Look, I understand desiring “lEEt” players if you are raiding, or even doing high level fractals. And I generally don’t jack around with people if they don’t want me joining in… plenty of room out in Tyria.

But seriously, 5k ap required for mid level fractal? And why base it on AP of all things? Having 5K AP can happen if you never set foot inside any “difficult” content.

I admit, I joined another group and was HIGHLY amused a few minutes later when I checked LFG and they were want someone with 5K ap to do level 28 and I had already finished all 3.

Is this common? I had never really encountered it in fractals before. I am at level 71 personally, but I have done 77. I just didn’t expect it.

It was more common when it was 4 fractals per a run. As silly as it sounds it actually made a positive woooorrrllld of difference rather than picking up a regualar slow joe. Fractals were never hard it was just terrible rando commandos that made you want to opt for root canals.

5k ap is probably to filter out f2p/new players. It used to be a standard practice in dungeons.

Having an AP requirement is fairly common… but it’s also a pretty horrible way of judging someone. A person can have a high AP total and still not have a clue about how to do Fractals.

It’s just a brain dead way for them to check for bad players. Logic is bad/new players will have less ap and those with more ap should be more experienced in game. It falls apart when you realize the game has bread players who can only stack and spam 1 and then reward them for it.

It measures experience within the game. Does it measure skill level? No.

Some players try to filter out what they perceive would be bad players and AP is one such filter. To be honest, in most cases it doesn’t matter. The time spent trying to get the right players would likely outweigh any time saved. I can see the merits in filtering out players as I did spend 2 hours doing Arah P1 one night having to explain how to do it.

Generally, if you don’t like people filtering who they want in their groups, just ignore them. You can still create your own group that accepts anybody.

Even the people who use it know it’s a ridiculous system that doesn’t actually tell them anything except that this person has been in the game longer than a month or so.

Especially considering most achievement points are gained by playing PvE, and often relatively easy PvE like exploring open-world maps and doing the story, or totally unrelated things like jumping puzzles.

If they could they’d be demanding a gear check, or DPS score or whatever else you can judge people on in other games. But they can’t so they settle for what they can judge you on. It’s the “grown up” equivalent of kids whose school brings in a uniform so they can’t judge each other on their clothes, so they judge you on your bag or where you buy your notebook instead.

And yes, even for easy content. You’ll sometimes see the same thing for story mode dungeons.

If you’re not interested in that type of elitist you’re best off just ignoring any party with an AP requirement.

Arlee.7038:

Having an AP requirement is fairly common… but it’s also a pretty horrible way of judging someone. A person can have a high AP total and still not have a clue about how to do Fractals.

And some can have 2k AP and have an alt with 24k. :P

The $10 sale saw a lot of new alt accounts for the daily rewards.

Arlee.7038:

Having an AP requirement is fairly common… but it’s also a pretty horrible way of judging someone. A person can have a high AP total and still not have a clue about how to do Fractals.

Case in point: I’ve been playing since launch, have just over 12,000 AP and I’ve done 5 Fractals.

And I don’t mean I’ve completed Fractals 5 times, I mean I’ve completed 5 individual Fractals.

The 5k requirement does weed out many of the f2p people. But I know a few people over 10k that are HORRIBLE players.

AP points are hardly an indication of a person’s skill level.

We have a couple guild members that have over 15k AP who have never stepped foot in fractals. AP is in no way a judge of experience or skill.

BloodyNine.7504:

We have a couple guild members that have over 15k AP who have never stepped foot in fractals. AP is in no way a judge of experience or skill.

It shows experience with the game in general. It is of course in no way a measure of skill.

Yes hello David, I happen to be in said daily party that does this for low level fractals, and chances are you’re referencing us (myself and two friends) by your post.

The vast majority of posters in this thread are right. It’s an easy, albeit occasionally inaccurate way to judge player experience level at a glance and attempt to guarantee that the run will go as quickly and as smoothly as possible.

Does it always work? No. Sometimes we end up being slow anyway, due to people leaving or having the requirement and still being inexperienced. But it can have a large effect on the kind of player that does end up joining our party, and I find we’re generally faster.

Bottom line is: We are not obligated to babysit you, hold your hand, or tell you that it’s going to be okay and that your 2.3k achievement points won’t be an issue. We -could- require you to send us a picture of yourself with a shoe on your head before you joined our party and we could still kick you for not doing it. We’re going to play how we want to play.

Rahar.9872:

Yes hello David, I happen to be in said daily party that does this for low level fractals, and chances are you’re referencing us (myself and two friends) by your post.

The vast majority of posters in this thread are right. It’s an easy, albeit occasionally inaccurate way to judge player experience level at a glance and attempt to guarantee that the run will go as quickly and as smoothly as possible.

Does it always work? No. Sometimes we end up being slow anyway, due to people leaving or having the requirement and still being inexperienced. But it can have a large effect on the kind of player that does end up joining our party, and I find we’re generally faster.

Bottom line is: We are not obligated to babysit you, hold your hand, or tell you that it’s going to be okay and that your 2.3k achievement points won’t be an issue. We -could- require you to send us a picture of yourself with a shoe on your head before you joined our party and we could still kick you for not doing it. We’re going to play how we want to play.

Do you actually feel this hostile about this issue in real life? You seem to be almost upset about it and very defensive. the OP never said anything about wanting babysitting or being carried. I would hope you wouldn’t do that either as it does not help train a better player. One learns by doing and sometimes people like you with what you seem to be indicating is a higher skill in this mode of play should do runs to share that knowledge and there by increase the number of players that can help you achieve your goals.

Thankfully you are posting your intent in LFG. That seems reasonable. I disagree with the tone of your statement and agree with the content. I feel the same about the OP.

I guess you can teach or you can do and that is your choice.

its wierd, my personal lvl is 98 and i finished all fractals, still my AP is only 4000…. so for now i think im kind of supporting the leaderboard…

Rahar.9872:

Yes hello David, I happen to be in said daily party that does this for low level fractals, and chances are you’re referencing us (myself and two friends) by your post.

The vast majority of posters in this thread are right. It’s an easy, albeit occasionally inaccurate way to judge player experience level at a glance and attempt to guarantee that the run will go as quickly and as smoothly as possible.

Does it always work? No. Sometimes we end up being slow anyway, due to people leaving or having the requirement and still being inexperienced. But it can have a large effect on the kind of player that does end up joining our party, and I find we’re generally faster.

Bottom line is: We are not obligated to babysit you, hold your hand, or tell you that it’s going to be okay and that your 2.3k achievement points won’t be an issue. We -could- require you to send us a picture of yourself with a shoe on your head before you joined our party and we could still kick you for not doing it. We’re going to play how we want to play.

It doesn’t bug me. Your money , your game. I was more mystified by the actual 5K metric. If the point is to save time, I can see where that might actually backfire.

But as I said, it is totally your choice and I am okay with it. It just has a middle school vibe, but I tend to be a patient sort and actually don’t mind helping people be better. But if you have limited time and don’t want to risk it, I understand.

If I had fully read the description I would not have joined. And that is totally my fault. So if it happened to be your group, I apologize for wasting your time. I was simply sort of taken aback.

David.5693:

Rahar.9872:

Yes hello David, I happen to be in said daily party that does this for low level fractals, and chances are you’re referencing us (myself and two friends) by your post.

The vast majority of posters in this thread are right. It’s an easy, albeit occasionally inaccurate way to judge player experience level at a glance and attempt to guarantee that the run will go as quickly and as smoothly as possible.

Does it always work? No. Sometimes we end up being slow anyway, due to people leaving or having the requirement and still being inexperienced. But it can have a large effect on the kind of player that does end up joining our party, and I find we’re generally faster.

Bottom line is: We are not obligated to babysit you, hold your hand, or tell you that it’s going to be okay and that your 2.3k achievement points won’t be an issue. We -could- require you to send us a picture of yourself with a shoe on your head before you joined our party and we could still kick you for not doing it. We’re going to play how we want to play.

It doesn’t bug me. Your money , your game. I was more mystified by the actual 5K metric. If the point is to save time, I can see where that might actually backfire.

But as I said, it is totally your choice and I am okay with it. It just has a middle school vibe, but I tend to be a patient sort and actually don’t mind helping people be better. But if you have limited time and don’t want to risk it, I understand.

If I had fully read the description I would not have joined. And that is totally my fault. So if it happened to be your group, I apologize for wasting your time. I was simply sort of taken aback.

You’re astoundingly polite and accommodating.

I was reading the thread and thinking, “Yeah, kinda silly but hey people can run groups how they want, no harm no foul.”

Then I read the guy’s response and now I hope he steps on legos barefoot every day for the rest of his life.

Kudos to you for your cool head.

David.5693:

Rahar.9872:

Yes hello David, I happen to be in said daily party that does this for low level fractals, and chances are you’re referencing us (myself and two friends) by your post.

The vast majority of posters in this thread are right. It’s an easy, albeit occasionally inaccurate way to judge player experience level at a glance and attempt to guarantee that the run will go as quickly and as smoothly as possible.

Does it always work? No. Sometimes we end up being slow anyway, due to people leaving or having the requirement and still being inexperienced. But it can have a large effect on the kind of player that does end up joining our party, and I find we’re generally faster.

Bottom line is: We are not obligated to babysit you, hold your hand, or tell you that it’s going to be okay and that your 2.3k achievement points won’t be an issue. We -could- require you to send us a picture of yourself with a shoe on your head before you joined our party and we could still kick you for not doing it. We’re going to play how we want to play.

It doesn’t bug me. Your money , your game. I was more mystified by the actual 5K metric. If the point is to save time, I can see where that might actually backfire.

But as I said, it is totally your choice and I am okay with it. It just has a middle school vibe, but I tend to be a patient sort and actually don’t mind helping people be better. But if you have limited time and don’t want to risk it, I understand.

If I had fully read the description I would not have joined. And that is totally my fault. So if it happened to be your group, I apologize for wasting your time. I was simply sort of taken aback.

It appears that other posters may have taken my sarcasm as anger or frustration of some kind.

You, however, seemed to be a reasonable sort from the get go, so I hope I’ve cleared some confusion. My post’s main purpose was only to clarify why groups like mine might choose to have said metric on our LFG’s, and that’s to attract the kind of player that wants to get the run done in the shortest amount of time. Call it elitist if you like, but we don’t have the time to “train” new players or don’t care to use our time “imparting” our knowledge.

Hopefully this provides some insight to the other side of the argument.

Fellow players should see “fractals done” (per difficulty range) and “personal fractal level” numbers.

Spoils the fun when you try to use tactics in fractals (and dungeons), and fellow player aggroes and kills every incoming mob.

AnniMira.2506:

Fellow players should see “fractals done” (per difficulty range) and “personal fractal level” numbers.

Spoils the fun when you try to use tactics in fractals (and dungeons), and fellow player aggroes and kills every incoming mob.

You can see personal fractal level. Go into the LFG tab and hover over any of the 4 fractal categories, you will see each personal level.

sarasvatri.6871:

You’re astoundingly polite and accommodating.

I was reading the thread and thinking, “Yeah, kinda silly but hey people can run groups how they want, no harm no foul.”

Then I read the guy’s response and now I hope he steps on legos barefoot every day for the rest of his life.

Kudos to you for your cool head.

Quoted for truth!

LvL 32 is really really really hard they want to be sure they can finish it

If people can join your level 20+ group in LFG, that means they are at least fractal level 20. By that point, they should easily have enough experience to be useful in your daily group.

I’ve never run into an AP req for fractals, and 90% of them have been very smooth. The ones that aren’t smooth are usually 67 and 77 runs with people who have over 10k AP and fractal level 100. There really is no good reason to enforce such a restriction.

" … imparting our knowledge. " Lol, that’s a good one. Must take a lot of time.

thats just stupid
<<<<<< 15k ap (slight brag)
highest lvl fractal ive done is 14 and i only even started fractals this year

if someone is using ap as a measure for whether you are fit for content then they are probably not fit for that content or at the very least they will be unfun to play with

It’s not ideal, but realistically…it usually works. Low AP has a strong correlation with low skill, manky builds and a lack of experience. And while high AP is not a good indicator of skill and experience, this requirement does increase your chances of running with decent players

It’s funny that someone would bother with this for a 32, but I’m guessing they had a few terrible experiences they’d rather not repeat. I’ve run a level 2 where the wisp run inexplicably failed twice in a row (a warrior kept dying) so I’d not rule anything out.

There are always going to be people who value their time more than the time they spend with strangers. They PUG to get things done. For them, this game offers few ways to find like-minded people of similar abilities and so they use proxies, AP being the easiest one to use.

There are others who care more about how they spend their time and aren’t in a particular rush. It’s a little easier for them to find like-minded people, they can avoid anyone in the first group, who is going to advertise using some arbitrary metric, like AP.

The problem is when any of us expect the group we join to be the group we want, without communicating our interests. Read the advert, ask if you’re not sure, and, if you kick or drop, be gracious enough to let folks know why. (In this case, “sorry, wrong AP” would have been fine.)

It’s a big game; there’s plenty of room for people who care about being in a rush and those who don’t.

Everyone lower than 20.000 AP currently only shows lack of interest in gw2. In groups is no need for people that show this lack of interest.

Bomber.3872:

Everyone lower than 20.000 AP currently only shows lack of interest in gw2. In groups is no need for people that show this lack of interest.

I haven’t said this about posting in years but that sounded arrogant. It’s a scale 32 fractal, if they meet the AR requirement anyone should be allow to go with any group. Unless the LFG asked otherwise.

Rauderi.8706:

And some can have 2k AP and have an alt with 24k. :P

The $10 sale saw a lot of new alt accounts for the daily rewards.

To be fair, it’s been slightly over a year since the $10 sale. If you’ve done nothing with the account beyond daily APs you’d still be around the 4k AP range (I only use my alt account for quick PvP dailies, somehow broke 5k AP a couple weeks ago).

Rahar.9872:

My post’s main purpose was only to clarify why groups like mine might choose to have said metric on our LFG’s, and that’s to attract the kind of player that wants to get the run done in the shortest amount of time.

So the AP requirement is arbitrary and you don’t actually associate skill with it, you’re just using it as a way to turn off people who like to take things slow and are most likely to be offended by AP requirements?

That’s a novel way of doing it.

Judging by AP makes no sense. A player who has 7k AP but quit in 2013 and recently came back to play is just as inexperienced as someone with 200 AP. Or there’s me for example, I don’t give a crap about achievements in any game, I only have 5600 AP but I’ve been playing GW2 since beta and I’m an experienced player. I want to punch everyone in the face who uses AP to judge people. I always start my own parties and type “ALL welcome except for elitists!”

I only frequent the 1-20 fractal LFG and I’ve seen one or two AP requirements there too, as well as plenty of “zerk only” and “exp only” things. Cringe-worthy really, given the easiness of those fractals. I just dive into any old group and it almost always works out. Occasionally you do end up as part of a dreadful team but that’s OK, it just maybe takes a few more minutes to get the job done. No biggie. Last night we were doing Fractal 2 and only two of us knew what to do, which gave us a certain amount of challenge with the three wisps but we got there after a few goes hehe.

I didn’t even know we could see other player’s AP total.

AnniMira.2506:

Fellow players should see “fractals done” (per difficulty range)

I want that counter, and i wish the whole fractal counter didn’t stop counting back in January 2013.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

5k ap is probably to filter out f2p/new players. It used to be a standard practice in dungeons.

fully agree but the real story : i know some ppl that have 20k+ Ap and are trash in every aspect of the game and the funny part is that i met an 100 Ap dude that surprised me in dungeons and fractals
its not about Ap, its about skill, this discrimination must end

If i have almost 30k AP, lvl100 frac and 150 AR, can i join your party and kick you all out? I am just assuring everything goes as smoothly according to my “Stats”.

^ Assuming you get 2 others in the party to do the same

It’s a moot point discussing this any further anyway, y’all are just pretty much saying the same stuff over and over. Was already explained why the LFG was put up that way, yadda yadda, nothing is going to change because people don’t like it. Unless anet specifically forbids having requirements in LFG, stuff like this will always be made.
Don’t like it, plenty of other groups to join, especially if said group is right after reset because most people are looking to complete them anyway.

I think ppl see it more like a D move. Most are aware anyone is entitled to stuff like this because on the long run you “the creators of the party” decide and dictate how your own party handles things.

What would, in my opinion, have been a D move, would be NOT stating your terms in the party message and just kick people without them knowing your “entry fee”..but in the OPs case, i see you guys clearly stated u want someone with X AP and he didn’t read it.

Nothing wrong in my book.

APs don’t tell much. There are even people wiht less than 1k on a 2nd account who are very good ofc.

But the experience is this: generally, people with low AP are worse in fractals. Not always, but the probability is rather high, that someone with 2k AP performs worse than one with 5k+. That is what I generally noticed in fractals. Nonetheless we are talking about 20-30 fractals – imo it’s ridiculous. I don’t give a kitten how much AP someone has anyways as long as they are good.

revox.8273:

its not about Ap, its about skill, this discrimination must end

It will end ONLY if devs will add inspect button or personal skill based content specific titles.

^ What did i just read..

TheRandomGuy.7246:

revox.8273:

its not about Ap, its about skill, this discrimination must end

It will end ONLY if devs will add inspect button or personal skill based content specific titles.

such as “the eternal” in raiding? no ty. it only takes for some ppl to be carried for some fake “skill”, its the same as “dungeon master” since it only needed to complete 1 time the dungeon
i like the idea still, but there are only a few titles that rly reflect player skill and dedication over 1 segment of the game such as “dungeoneer” for example

Mea.5491:

Judging by AP makes no sense. A player who has 7k AP but quit in 2013 and recently came back to play is just as inexperienced as someone with 200 AP. Or there’s me for example, I don’t give a crap about achievements in any game, I only have 5600 AP but I’ve been playing GW2 since beta and I’m an experienced player. I want to punch everyone in the face who uses AP to judge people. I always start my own parties and type “ALL welcome except for elitists!”

They’ll have a much lower learning curve when coming back compared to the brand new player.

As far as the difference, let me explain it this way. Let’s assume that we have Player A and Player B. Player A has played Elder Scrolls games for years and has even amazed a total of 2,000 hours playing both Morrowind and Oblivion. Player B has never played an Elder Scrolls game. Let’s also assume that this is the only difference between the two players. Skyrim comes out. Who do you think is going to player better?

Amassing 5K+ AP takes time regardless as to whether you get it strictly from dailies or not. During this time you would likely have done things in GW2. That’s kind of obvious. You’ll have gained a basic understanding of the game which is something that a new player may or may not have right away.

Dungeoneer, the title you can get by repeating PvP tracks?

kolompi.1287:

Dungeoneer, the title you can get by repeating PvP tracks?

kitten , forgot about that route :/

AP is used as a metric because some information is better than no information.

Yes – it isn’t perfect – but I’ll take the 20k AP guy over the guy that has 5k any day – why? Because 20k achievement points don’t just materialize – so if you have them I at least know you play the game a lot.
There is a direct correlation between time spent in game and skill level – and while exceptions do exist – I’d rather have people who’ve spent tons of time in GW2 because chances are they’ll be more skilled.

You can’t get AP without spending a lot of time in game – so naturally – the more AP the better the odds that person isn’t completely bad.

Yeah, figured this argument would switch from dungeon speedruns to Mossman speedruns. :P

Same advice applies:

• If you don’t see an LFG whose requirements you meet, please make your own. Keywords to use are “all welcome”. Also specify “full clear” or “cutscenes” (less relevant for fracs) if that’s what you’re going after or it’s your first time in.
• Bring two friends with you. This keeps the trolls from kicking/hijacking a group.
• General life advice, don’t be a D. If you see LFGs you don’t like, please be mature and leave them alone. You wouldn’t want to play with them, anyway. Agree to disagree.

It’s indeed an accurate check of gears. I got my full ascended set when I had around 5k AP. But there is definitely no need for full ascended to do scale 32 fractal. If it was tier 3 dailies (56/67/77) then it would be more reasonable.

xiiliea.9356:

It’s indeed an accurate check of gears. I got my full ascended set when I had around 5k AP. But there is definitely no need for full ascended to do scale 32 fractal. If it was tier 3 dailies (56/67/77) then it would be more reasonable.

Um.. not in the slightest accuracy, really.

Anecdote:
15k+ AP. Total of maybe 6 Ascended gear pieces between all three armor weights.
Not counting trinkets, anyway. I’m swimming in those. :P

Wouldnt just checking the person’s personal fractal level VIA LFG be a better way to determine if they are experienced or nah?

OtterPaws.2036:

Wouldnt just checking the person’s personal fractal level VIA LFG be a better way to determine if they are experienced or nah?

As I haven’t checked before, curious question:

Is that visible to other people? I vaguely think yes, but I’m not sure. Though, yeah, it would be a better indicator of fractal performance.