Current balance issues:
How can we get other classes invited into the best possible min-maxed groups in Guild Wars 2? How can we get other group compositions to compete with those listed below?
4 War/Mesmer
2 War/2 Guard/Mesmer
3 War/1 Guard/Mesmer
Warriors do the best damage by a high margin, Guardians do best support/damage, and Mesmers provide unique buffs that make one per group nearly mandatory.
These groups takes care of all buffs needed for their respective tasks, offers great damage, and miss out on nothing significant that another class could be providing.
My Suggested Fixes:
1.) Warriors.
Warriors do the best damage, but that’s not actually their largest balance issue. The issue is that a group of warriors ALSO brings the best damage buffs. 100% uptime on fury and 25 stacks of might in a 3war group.
Therefore, the fix I suggest for Warriors is that, in exchange for a bunch of PVP buffs and buffs that do not affect damage (such as more ways to gain prot, stability or other boons), they lose their ability to stack significant amounts of might, and perhaps a nerf to their ability to gain fury as well.
Note: I am not suggesting a nerf of warriors so much as I am suggesting making them stronger in some areas in exchanging for losing the ability to stack so much might and fury. In a group composition where someone else is providing might and fury, they would be doing EXACTLY the same damage with more survivability.
How will this affect the meta? One might stacking class gets added to COF P1 farms—lots of other classes can excel at this. In other dungeons, one slot that was devoted to Warrior can optionally get switched to a might-stacking class.
2 warr/2 guard/1 mesmer gets a bit of a nerf since both Guardians will have to swap for staff 4 and sacrifice damage to stack might. With this change, perhaps it would be more efficient to look at the might stacking options other classes have. Most likely, this meta would remain—but other groups would be able to compete.
It seems like a lot of other classes have interesting might stacking talents— but all for naught, since warriors stack might so easily. This would make a lot more traits and builds for other classes worth looking at.
2.) Mesmers (Or Engineers)
Mesmer’s unique abilities make one per group almost necessary.
The simple fix? Give Engineers a “Portal Gun” talent, and give engineers an AOE frenzy buff. Obviously care will have to be taken that this does not buff them in PVP. Now groups can bring one Mesmer or an Engie to fulfill the necessary unique buffs—Mesmer’s still having the advantage of reflects.
3.) Guardians
I main a Guardian, so I’ll be honest and say I might be biased here. I personally feel that Guardians do a bit less damage than people realize, and that this low damage is a fair exchange for the utility they bring. However, it is possible that Guardian survivability needs a slight nerf to make it a bit less easy to play compared to other classes. Giving another class, perhaps rangers, the ability to AOE stack enemies might help as well. To be honest, I’m least confident about how to fix Guardian or if Guardian really needs a fix so much as Guardian/warriors synergy needs a nerf. I do agree that they are too common and effective, but perhaps other classes need to be brought up rather than Guardians being brought down.
Let’s Look Back at the Group Compositions I posted above:
With these changes, I think the games min/max group composition could become much more interesting and diverse, opening up a ton of options. Things can never be perfect, but I think this would be a vast improvement. I have a zerker warrior, and I’m not trying to get it nerfed— I just have more fun when I’m in a group with more diversity, combo fields, buffs— I don’t want every dungeon run to be exactly the same. I want options.
4 War/Mesmer:
3 DPS zerkers/ 1 might-stacker/ Mesmer/Engineer.
2 War/2 Guard/ Mesmer:
2 Zerker DPS/ 1 might stacker/1 Guardian/Mesmer/Engineer.
2 War/ 2 Guard/ Mesmer:
2 Zerker DPS, 1 might stacker, 1 Guard/Mesmer/Engineer.
Thanks for reading and letting me know what you think.
(edited by Hamartia.3421)
Thanks for the suggestion but I’m against nerfing a class to make others better.
Im also against nerfing a class to make others better, im not going to comment on the whole thing just the guardian part.
If your not getting damage out of your guard your playing it wrong, stop using clerics, soldiers or any garbage like that and start using knights/zerker or a mix of the both. Stop using hammer/staff and start using GS/Secpt/Focus.
I’m also curious as to where you ever see groups looking only for Mes/War/Guard’s? I pug dungeons all the time, I’ve gotten enough karma from just dungeons/daily’s to make 4 legendary’s + have enough for a 5th and I’ve never once seen a pug group looking only for this comp.
If its your guild that’s only asking for this comp of classes for a dungeon run and you don’t like it then switch guilds. The only time I ever see this used to its full potential is by high end dungeon teams, regular people can’t pull off the same thing, they will all be on the ground because most people lack the ability to survive with full zerker gear in any situation but Cof p1.
To be honest, I should have just stuck to the Warrior part as it is the only one I believe is important. I just wanted to address all of the most glaring balance issues.
I’m a Knights/zerkers Guardian and I do great damage for what the class does. I’m just saying that people don’t realize that a decent Ranger does damage on par with a properly geared and spec Guardian… which is fine.
Most people do not ask for this comp. People who know what they’re doing avoid running anything else if they can help it— this group comp trivializes all content in this game.
A decent Ranger doesn’t do damage on par with a Guardian. The most I ever hit for on my Ranger with Sword autoattack is around 3k damage with Might stacks and vulnerability on bosses, and I consistently do 4k+ on the first 2 attacks on Sword with my Guardian and 6k+ on the third attack. Ranger doesn’t come close to that. Warriors are only good if the person playing it is good, and I wish that this is something that people would start to understand. I’ve seen plenty of Warriors using shout heal with dolyak signet and Soldier’s gear that barely hit 6k damage with a hundred blades. When you watch videos like what Strife creates and see his Warrior doing 30k+ hundred blades, it’s not because Warriors are infinitely better than every other class, it’s because the person playing the Warrior has optimized his build and understands game mechanics. Warriors are not damage dealing monsters when they kite bosses around with a Rifle and save their shouts to be used as heals.
A decent Ranger doesn’t do damage on par with a Guardian. The most I ever hit for on my Ranger with Sword autoattack is around 3k damage with Might stacks and vulnerability on bosses, and I consistently do 4k+ on the first 2 attacks on Sword with my Guardian and 6k+ on the third attack. Ranger doesn’t come close to that. Warriors are only good if the person playing it is good, and I wish that this is something that people would start to understand. I’ve seen plenty of Warriors using shout heal with dolyak signet and Soldier’s gear that barely hit 6k damage with a hundred blades. When you watch videos like what Strife creates and see his Warrior doing 30k+ hundred blades, it’s not because Warriors are infinitely better than every other class, it’s because the person playing the Warrior has optimized his build and understands game mechanics. Warriors are not damage dealing monsters when they kite bosses around with a Rifle and save their shouts to be used as heals.
First off, for Ranger, you aren’t taking into account that you have a pet hitting for 1k every second in addition to your damage. Your numbers are also off based on what I’ve seen, but I was more referring to Strife’s standard Guardian vs a full zerker Ranger in terms of damage. I was not trying to say Ranger damage is fine— just that Guardian damage isn’t that high.
You have to be kidding me. Everyone just uses Strifes guide. You press 2 if you can, 1 otherwise, 3 if youre against a wall. BAM BEST DAMAGE IN THE GAME. And… with my suggestions, that would still be the case. You just don’t get fury and might for free. Someone else has to work to give it to you.
(edited by Hamartia.3421)
It’s an ongoing issue with Arenanets design philosophy. They want to give each class a unique feel and have, in my opinion, succeeded if you only take the playstyle into regard.
You suggest to give warriors less might and fury and compensate with giving prot, regen and stability? That just ends up fusing warrior with guardian elements (guess some could call it a freud’sche reaction based on the comment that guardian is your main).
Balancing pve in the current state is a rather hard feat because not enough skills are (yet) split between pve/wvw and spvp which is a matter of utmost importance for this sake.
In my humble opinion it is neccessary that the dungeon encounters themselves get reworked so that pure dmg with minimum utility isnt always the optimal choice.
If every player of the party is skilled a mix of war/guard/mes currently simply fills anything that the pve content asks for and that is the core issue.
I’ve PUGd 350+ dungeons, 30 FOTM, rank 23 wvw, 1765+ hours on ranger, and through all of that I’ve been accepted in nearly every group. Rangers actually do a ton of damage, just, popular players like Strife are admittedly scared of playing a more challenging profession. They won’t even test it to see if it decreases their run times.
It’s an ongoing issue with Arenanets design philosophy. They want to give each class a unique feel and have, in my opinion, succeeded if you only take the playstyle into regard.
You suggest to give warriors less might and fury and compensate with giving prot, regen and stability? That just ends up fusing warrior with guardian elements (guess some could call it a freud’sche reaction based on the comment that guardian is your main).Balancing pve in the current state is a rather hard feat because not enough skills are (yet) split between pve/wvw and spvp which is a matter of utmost importance for this sake.
In my humble opinion it is neccessary that the dungeon encounters themselves get reworked so that pure dmg with minimum utility isnt always the optimal choice.
If every player of the party is skilled a mix of war/guard/mes currently simply fills anything that the pve content asks for and that is the core issue.
This argument comes up a lot.
Guard and Mes are pretty much the best in any situation that doesn’t require high DPS as well. They are not particularly high DPS classes. So then it’ll just be something like 3 Guard/1 War/Mes.
People really, really don’t want to admit that classes are unbalanced because other games gave them shellshock.
Your comments about warrior are astute though. I wasn’t really offering suggestions, just saying “Give them X sorta stuff”. I personally think very high stability uptime suits them, as well as some ability to gain critical hits into healing (omnom pie, built in). Perhaps that could be the fix to healing signet.
If warrior/mesmer/guardian is a 10 in pve, I’ll give the rest of the class a 9.
But if you play a 9 class when you can play a 10, chance are you pick the wrong skill, weapon and gear too and you become a 6.
I do believe there is unbalance, just not that big people make it sound like it.
IF they want to balance the game they can easily…
They don t want or do not care…
Lets see whats happened in PvE last patches:
Warrior got a damage buff and banner buff
Elementalist got his FEW reflect skills rendered USELESS!
Simply their skills do not work against most bosses for no reasons while guardian still works….(trebouchet patch and other ninja nerfs/glitches to mistform and stuff).
Now if before 2 elemtntalist could make up for 1 guardian in FEW situations in PvE now not even 10 are enough…..
Then there is the other issue.
Most mobs/bosses are immune to crowd control….with the exception of guardian crowd control….
Not to mention that this pushes the importance of raw DPS.
Then again the same mobs have a LOT of CC…this promotes the need of stability….and wich classes have the most?
Then we have the poor AI (well its fine for a mmorpg) that is balanced with absurd stats.
This makes so you need to fight in small burst while having few seconds of invulnerability because you can t facetank anything…
For the same mob stats…there is the downed state issue….
DPS once again but ALSO 2 classes have the best ressing skills ….guardian and warrior.
Elementalist had one but was nerfed into oblivion once again.
And finally the DPS difference is TOO much…..mobs won t evade 100B so a warrior can do more than 2X sustained damage of another class often MUCH MUCH more than 3X.
That goes along with guardian defensive skills that has 3X uptime (with lower CD) of other classes at least …..agan they do their work better than other 2 profession together.
Now given all those things and looking at all Patches i don t see any attempt at PvE balancing.
I may be wrong but i only see PvP balancing that in fact is in a good state….whereas WWW is very unbalanced and PvE is in a terrible state.
P.S: and there is no build…..for everything the answer is ZERKER…..if you have some problems you could want 1 support guardian, but guardian support is awesome even in DPS builds….
P.P.S. and seems anet knows that PvE is really unbalanced….despite i do not agree with them that warriors and guardians are fine and the other are UP….
I think the opposite.
(edited by LordByron.8369)
First off, for Ranger, you aren’t taking into account that you have a pet hitting for 1k every second in addition to your damage. Your numbers are also off based on what I’ve seen, but I was more referring to Strife’s standard Guardian vs a full zerker Ranger in terms of damage. I was not trying to say Ranger damage is fine— just that Guardian damage isn’t that high.
You have to be kidding me. Everyone just uses Strifes guide. You press 2 if you can, 1 otherwise, 3 if youre against a wall. BAM BEST DAMAGE IN THE GAME. And… with my suggestions, that would still be the case. You just don’t get fury and might for free. Someone else has to work to give it to you.
You must not do dungeons at all, because you NEVER have pets doing any sort of damage once a boss starts attacking. I haven’t used anything similar to Strife’s Guardian build in awhile, because after a few months of playing Guardian I simply didn’t need a build like that anymore. My Guardian’s DPS is quite high, so if you feel that yours is low, there are clearly things you could do to increase it.
And if everyone uses Strife’s builds, why do I see so many people that play poorly and use terrible builds like shout heal? You can copy a build, but you can’t copy a player’s skill level just by reading about what they do. If a bad player strolls into a dungeon with Berserker’s gear on his Warrior and doesn’t understand the class, there’s a pretty good chance he will be down most of the time, and I’ve seen plenty of situations like this occur. When groups are coordinated, builds are optimized, and players are skilled, content becomes drastically easier. Any pug group with no coordination or skilled players running the exact setup as the groups I run with would not be able to do things as quickly as us. At the same time, I’d wager that running 3 Rangers instead of Warriors with a DnT group would also be quite a bit faster than any average pug group making use of the “meta” classes. Player skill and ability will always be superior to people that copy and paste builds.
After running dungeons so many times you do realize that Warriors/guardians/mesmers are the preferred class to bring into PVE due to their wanted damage and utilities; although yes skill does play a large part of that so a skillful ranger/necro etc. will be just fine in a PVE environment but that same player would do much better playing a Warrior/guardian/Mesmer. Trust me I play Guard/Warrior/Mesmer/Thief and sadly the thief doesn’t get much pve action just because playing the other classes will make for a smoother quicker dungeon run environment.
Also as a response to the above poster when it comes to people using bad builds, from my experience people use them because they focus on more than just PVE and don’t want to retrait/respec every time they go from WvW to PVE as that change could be within a matter of minutes several times a day (which becomes even moreso if you have several 80 alts). And lets face it, pretty much every PVE build is absolutely horrid in WvW.
There are quite a few dungeons where a mesmer or guardian are just useless if your group knows how to play. Either way, the issue is there, about 5 professions are almost never used. Reasons are missing damage (and/or, for Arah for example the misssing projectile reflection). There is absolutely no reason choosing more than one mesmer or more than one guardian. Doesnt offer more support, screws your dps. Same for all other 5 classes, don’t offer any support, don’t offer good damage. To make teams like 1 Warrior 2 Mesmer 1 Engineer and a Nekro or w/e random composition viable there is a simple solution. Buff their damage by a really, really large amount.
There are quite a few dungeons where a mesmer or guardian are just useless if your group knows how to play. Either way, the issue is there, about 5 professions are almost never used. Reasons are missing damage (and/or, for Arah for example the misssing projectile reflection). There is absolutely no reason choosing more than one mesmer or more than one guardian. Doesnt offer more support, screws your dps. Same for all other 5 classes, don’t offer any support, don’t offer good damage. To make teams like 1 Warrior 2 Mesmer 1 Engineer and a Nekro or w/e random composition viable there is a simple solution. Buff their damage by a really, really large amount.
Sadly that’s not a realistic fix (i wish it were) but if they did so they’d destroy Spvp and WvW. Honesty and I hate to say it because i play a warrior but I think 100b needs to be nerfed but it should be changed to some type of instant and/or guided skill without a rooting casting timer, that would at least take care of warriors. The next easiest fix would be for mesmers which IMO the best fix would be to give other classes a group timewarp like ability; specifically I’m thinking of engineers which would fit the lore with it’s technology based skills.
And finally the DPS difference is TOO much…..mobs won t evade 100B so a warrior can do more than 2X sustained damage of another class often MUCH MUCH more than 3X.
Is that fact or make up number. I got 8 class to 80 and use max dps on most of them. Quite honestly I dont’ find the killing speed different that much.
If this game have dmg meter it’ll probably fix many myth. You say warrior do like 2-3x more dmg while another person in this post say ranger do almost the same.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
I haven’t used anything similar to Strife’s Guardian build in awhile, because after a few months of playing Guardian I simply didn’t need a build like that anymore. My Guardian’s DPS is quite high, so if you feel that yours is low, there are clearly things you could do to increase it.
Good to know people are moving from anchoring to dealing damage!
And finally the DPS difference is TOO much…..mobs won t evade 100B so a warrior can do more than 2X sustained damage of another class often MUCH MUCH more than 3X.
Is that fact or make up number. I got 8 class to 80 and use max dps on most of them. Quite honestly I dont’ find the killing speed different that much.
you can find numbers in lot of topics about sustained and burst damage….
There are a lot of variables so discussing it here would be OT.
Try the Old tom test ….
With 2 guards just supporting and 3 warriors
with 2 guards just supporting and 3 X professions of your choice.
That is just one of the DPS tests anet put in the game….
And finally the DPS difference is TOO much…..mobs won t evade 100B so a warrior can do more than 2X sustained damage of another class often MUCH MUCH more than 3X.
Is that fact or make up number. I got 8 class to 80 and use max dps on most of them. Quite honestly I dont’ find the killing speed different that much.
you can find numbers in lot of topics about sustained and burst damage….
There are a lot of variables so discussing it here would be OT.
Try the Old tom test ….With 2 guards just supporting and 3 warriors
with 2 guards just supporting and 3 X professions of your choice.That is just one of the DPS tests anet put in the game….
Most people probably dont’ even know how to max dps. And you say 2-3 times more dmg seems like people just dont’ know how to play.
Does anyone actually have a test to show it? I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m saying there’s no proof. I’m not denying warrior is probably at the top dps chart. But I’m not sure the difference is that big.
I mean I got 8 lvl80’s I’m quite inetrested on who have the highest dps. I actually really don’t find warrior dps to be “so much better”, at least not 2-3 times.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
And finally the DPS difference is TOO much…..mobs won t evade 100B so a warrior can do more than 2X sustained damage of another class often MUCH MUCH more than 3X.
Is that fact or make up number. I got 8 class to 80 and use max dps on most of them. Quite honestly I dont’ find the killing speed different that much.
you can find numbers in lot of topics about sustained and burst damage….
There are a lot of variables so discussing it here would be OT.
Try the Old tom test ….With 2 guards just supporting and 3 warriors
with 2 guards just supporting and 3 X professions of your choice.That is just one of the DPS tests anet put in the game….
Most people probably dont’ even know how to max dps. And you say 2-3 times more dmg seems like people just dont’ know how to play.
Does anyone actually have a test to show it?
cool now rather than l2p answer that is quite useless why don t you try what i said?
I did.
And finally the DPS difference is TOO much…..mobs won t evade 100B so a warrior can do more than 2X sustained damage of another class often MUCH MUCH more than 3X.
Is that fact or make up number. I got 8 class to 80 and use max dps on most of them. Quite honestly I dont’ find the killing speed different that much.
you can find numbers in lot of topics about sustained and burst damage….
There are a lot of variables so discussing it here would be OT.
Try the Old tom test ….With 2 guards just supporting and 3 warriors
with 2 guards just supporting and 3 X professions of your choice.That is just one of the DPS tests anet put in the game….
Most people probably dont’ even know how to max dps. And you say 2-3 times more dmg seems like people just dont’ know how to play.
Does anyone actually have a test to show it?
cool now rather than l2p answer that is quite useless why don t you try what i said?
I did.
and you are sure those people actually wearing the right gear, trait the right way, and use the right skill, and use correct attack rotation?
I’m more of a cof guy. I ran probably 2000+ cof path 1 run. Mostly warrior actually.
Do you know why 4 war + mesmer group is always like so much faster than other pug? Because beside warrior is indeed better, all other people didn’t trait the right way, use the right gear, use the right skill, and use the correct rotation.
Unless you telling me your group of players did that. They actually max their dps. And still do 2-3 times more dmg.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
That is why i am suggesting to do it yourself with friends…
So you choose wich build to use….
Not that i care much for cof1….
But in fotm/arah the differences is not 1 more minute…its the difference between succeeding or not….
And even succeeding we are talking of 1 hours runs VS 1,5-2 hours….
Just go kill a Veteran Risen Giant in Cursed Shore. It takes me much longer for any of my other 80s (all 8 classes, so I’ve tried everyone) as it does for my warrior, though admittedly I don’t have optimal skill rotations down on many of them.
Just go kill a Veteran Risen Giant in Cursed Shore. It takes me much longer for any of my other 80s (all 8 classes, so I’ve tried everyone) as it does for my warrior, though admittedly I don’t have optimal skill rotations down on many of them.
Why veteran mob in open world when people moan about balance in dungeons? Why not elite risen elementalist or hunter? Maybe lupi?
Just go kill a Veteran Risen Giant in Cursed Shore. It takes me much longer for any of my other 80s (all 8 classes, so I’ve tried everyone) as it does for my warrior, though admittedly I don’t have optimal skill rotations down on many of them.
Why veteran mob in open world when people moan about balance in dungeons? Why not elite risen elementalist or hunter? Maybe lupi?
Easier to find and get to solo, but any of those would work, too. Main point was to go do it rather than sitting on the forums yapping about what ifs. Do it, fraps it, show the world.
Easier to find and get to solo, but any of those would work, too. Main point was to go do it rather than sitting on the forums yapping about what ifs. Do it, fraps it, show the world.
You missed the point.
Easier to find and get to solo, but any of those would work, too. Main point was to go do it rather than sitting on the forums yapping about what ifs. Do it, fraps it, show the world.
You missed the point.
That was not so much in response to the OP as it was to the discussion that featured this:
Does anyone actually have a test to show it? I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m saying there’s no proof.
Let me rephrase it. Do you think that veteran risen giant represents a valid sample of average mob and uses typical tools that players have to counter in so-called high end pve?
@TheMaskedParadim
“You must not do dungeons at all, because you NEVER have pets doing any sort of damage once a boss starts attacking.”
I lol’d at that. Good one. Because you’re lying to yourself and spreading bullkitten from one end of Tyria to the next!
Let me rephrase it. Do you think that veteran risen giant represents a valid sample of average mob and uses typical tools that players have to counter in so-called high end pve?
I think it’s fairly representative, especially for the purposes of doing a simple solo DPS check. It has enough health that won’t be put down by simply bursting, there are enough adds that you might need to manage health the longer you take to kill it, and there are the stomps that you need to either mitigate through stability, blind, interrupts or evasion . It’s not hard, especially if you are DPS-specced, but when you’re looking for a simple measure of theoretical DPS potential why wouldn’t it be sufficient?
I’ve PUGd 350+ dungeons, 30 FOTM, rank 23 wvw, 1765+ hours on ranger, and through all of that I’ve been accepted in nearly every group. Rangers actually do a ton of damage, just, popular players like Strife are admittedly scared of playing a more challenging profession. They won’t even test it to see if it decreases their run times.
Or you’ve never played other classes to see how much their damage is.
I think it will be difficult to nerf/buff a class at this point. The teams are not a problem the content is.
The only thing that could beat a greatsword warrior team is an exceptionally high armored target (over 9000 Toughness!!!) with a high attack rate of high damage close combat aoe(beating dodges and aegis cooldowns), however small HP. Then we can use control and condition damage/retaliation and other stuff that may seem useless at the moment!
I think it will be difficult to nerf/buff a class at this point. The teams are not a problem the content is.
The only thing that could beat a greatsword warrior team is an exceptionally high armored target (over 9000 Toughness!!!) with a high attack rate of high damage close combat aoe(beating dodges and aegis cooldowns), however small HP. Then we can use control and condition damage/retaliation and other stuff that may seem useless at the moment!
You’re saying it’s hard, but to be honest I think I came up with a pretty elegant solution.
It won’t make warrior/mes/Guardian much less powerful, but it will get at least one more class invited to COF speed runs and will get other group compositions some mileage.
With my suggestions, and then buffs to the UNDERPOWERED classes, I think this game would be in amazing shape for PVE.
I’ve PUGd 350+ dungeons, 30 FOTM, rank 23 wvw, 1765+ hours on ranger, and through all of that I’ve been accepted in nearly every group. Rangers actually do a ton of damage, just, popular players like Strife are admittedly scared of playing a more challenging profession. They won’t even test it to see if it decreases their run times.
a few possibilities…
1. We have tested rangers in our speed runs and.found they suck. And youre delusional.
2. strife is actually scared of using a ranger for some reason.
I wonder which is more likely.
You know what would be great for PvE balance?
A dev explaining the Sotg in details and their plans for the future…..
Would be a good start for dicussions because many feels they gave up PvE balance completely so we need feedback.
I guess there are those people that don’t understand how the 3 warrior / 1 guardian / 1 Mesmer type group came about. People didn’t arbitrarily pick those and just go with it. They tested all of the classes with the various builds and found this works the best.
I guess there are those people that don’t understand how the 3 warrior / 1 guardian / 1 Mesmer type group came about. People didn’t arbitrarily pick those and just go with it. They tested all of the classes with the various builds and found this works the best.
Since you seem to be aware of the issue, what do you think of my suggestions?
I guess there are those people that don’t understand how the 3 warrior / 1 guardian / 1 Mesmer type group came about. People didn’t arbitrarily pick those and just go with it. They tested all of the classes with the various builds and found this works the best.
Since you seem to be aware of the issue, what do you think of my suggestions?
After looking at your “suggestions”, it seems to me that you just want us to be nerfed to the same level of effectiveness in pve as your engineer or whatever.
I don’t have an Engineer. I have a zerker warrior, a Guardian, an Elementalist, and a Necro at 80 and exotic/ascended geared. =)
I’ve PUGd 350+ dungeons, 30 FOTM, rank 23 wvw, 1765+ hours on ranger, and through all of that I’ve been accepted in nearly every group. Rangers actually do a ton of damage, just, popular players like Strife are admittedly scared of playing a more challenging profession. They won’t even test it to see if it decreases their run times.
a few possibilities…
1. We have tested rangers in our speed runs and.found they suck. And youre delusional.
2. strife is actually scared of using a ranger for some reason.
I wonder which is more likely.
I’m going to need proof since strifey previously wrote on reddit that he was afraid rangers do less damage and that he personally would never use one. That said, people with 5 level 80s usually aren’t any good at playing their alts. I am a hardcore player and have never run across someone—outside of spvp— who was accomplished with two professions. They are rarities. And ranger is so much different than warrior so people who roll one end up using their warrior playstyle, dying a lot, and saying “what?”. I do have a warrior: it’s so boring I use her as my mule. I would have quit the game ages ago of I had to play that profession.
How much damage does a warrior do? Well, I have a speadsheet here with all the numbers and skill coefficients. I also have one for ranger. Math—it works!
(edited by Chopps.5047)
So, just because i have 7 80’s and use most of them regulary im playing bad?
True, wasnt able to solo lupi first try with my necro.
I’ve PUGd 350+ dungeons, 30 FOTM, rank 23 wvw, 1765+ hours on ranger, and through all of that I’ve been accepted in nearly every group. Rangers actually do a ton of damage, just, popular players like Strife are admittedly scared of playing a more challenging profession. They won’t even test it to see if it decreases their run times.
Or you’ve never played other classes to see how much their damage is.
Playing a profession—which is the correct term— (you’d think a pro like you would know the difference between armor class and profession) doesn’t mean you know how to excel with it. Just because you roll a warrior, craft it up to 80, and slot some exos with ruby orbs doesn’t mean you’re pro. It means you’re just like everyone else, I’m afraid.
So, just because i have 7 80’s and use most of them regulary im playing bad?
True, wasnt able to solo lupi first try with my necro.
I never said that. What a weird conclusion to draw based on my words.
I’ve PUGd 350+ dungeons, 30 FOTM, rank 23 wvw, 1765+ hours on ranger, and through all of that I’ve been accepted in nearly every group. Rangers actually do a ton of damage, just, popular players like Strife are admittedly scared of playing a more challenging profession. They won’t even test it to see if it decreases their run times.
Or you’ve never played other classes to see how much their damage is.
Playing a profession—which is the correct term— (you’d think a pro like you would know the difference between armor class and profession) doesn’t mean you know how to excel with it. Just because you roll a warrior, craft it up to 80, and slot some exos with ruby orbs doesn’t mean you’re pro. It means you’re just like everyone else, I’m afraid.
Actually I think he was talking about the damage output of two people who are equally proficient at playing their respective professions. It seems to me that you are avoiding the facts behind Ayrilana’s painfully simple sentence. Skill is not equal to magic, I’m afraid.
I’ve PUGd 350+ dungeons, 30 FOTM, rank 23 wvw, 1765+ hours on ranger, and through all of that I’ve been accepted in nearly every group. Rangers actually do a ton of damage, just, popular players like Strife are admittedly scared of playing a more challenging profession. They won’t even test it to see if it decreases their run times.
a few possibilities…
1. We have tested rangers in our speed runs and.found they suck. And youre delusional.
2. strife is actually scared of using a ranger for some reason.
I wonder which is more likely.
I’m going to need proof since strifey previously wrote on reddit that he was afraid rangers do less damage and that he personally would never use one. That said, people with 5 level 80s usually aren’t any good at playing their alts. I am a hardcore player and have never run across someone—outside of spvp— who was accomplished with two professions. They are rarities. And ranger is so much different than warrior so people who roll one end up using their warrior playstyle, dying a lot, and saying “what?”. I do have a warrior: it’s so boring I use her as my mule. I would have quit the game ages ago of I had to play that profession.
How much damage does a warrior do? Well, I have a speadsheet here with all the numbers and skill coefficients. I also have one for ranger. Math—it works!
Strife isnt the only player in our guild, and I have no idea what quote youre referring to. If rangers would improve our speed clear records or even make our casual runs bettrr we would use them.
Spreadsheets. I play guild wars 2 not fantasy land spreadsheet wars 2. spreadsheets are good for theory, next you put it into practice and demonstrate it in actual game play in realhigh level fractals or dungeon speed clears. Try doing that if you want to be taken seriously.
And a lot of players can play multiple professions at an elite level, so maybe youre not as hardcore as you think you are, but thats just a speculation.
OP I do agree with you that warriors tend to too easily stack might. Overall in PVE they bring a lot to a group for little personal loss.
But this is not the only problem if might is the only solution then I should be king of PVE with my elementalist, using cantrips and combos I can go up to 25 stacks of might.
The real difference for me is in content, there is a reason why warriors are still not great in PvP but are great in PvE. In PvP warriors suffer from slowing conditions preventing them from being in range of a target and the enemy dodges and kites out of your burst attacks. In PvE apart from Karkas and some archers in CM I very rarely see enemy dodge/evade/kite to improve their lifespan.
Albert Einstein:
“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”
OP I do agree with you that warriors tend to too easily stack might. Overall in PVE they bring a lot to a group for little personal loss.
But this is not the only problem if might is the only solution then I should be king of PVE with my elementalist, using cantrips and combos I can go up to 25 stacks of might.
The real difference for me is in content, there is a reason why warriors are still not great in PvP but are great in PvE. In PvP warriors suffer from slowing conditions preventing them from being in range of a target and the enemy dodges and kites out of your burst attacks. In PvE apart from Karkas and some archers in CM I very rarely see enemy dodge/evade/kite to improve their lifespan.
The reason no one cares your ele stacks might is because a group of warriors can get 25 stacks. If they couldn’t, suddenly other classes ability to stack might would matter.
The reason no one cares your ele stacks might is because a group of warriors can get 25 stacks. If they couldn’t, suddenly other classes ability to stack might would matter.
And they have a real interesting damage scaling . But it doesn’t mean all classes have an equal chance of performing in PvE just by removing might generation from Warriors.
Just have a look at condition necromancers or rangers… they are not really great in dungeons where monsters have lots of HP and low armor. Not even at 25 stacks of might will they equal the dps output of a warrior.
Again the problem is the game content and the way most mobs/bosses fight. The AI is not great and they just try to facetank you without thinking, which is obviously the best set up for a warrior.
I’ve PUGd 350+ dungeons, 30 FOTM, rank 23 wvw, 1765+ hours on ranger, and through all of that I’ve been accepted in nearly every group. Rangers actually do a ton of damage, just, popular players like Strife are admittedly scared of playing a more challenging profession. They won’t even test it to see if it decreases their run times.
Or you’ve never played other classes to see how much their damage is.
Playing a profession—which is the correct term— (you’d think a pro like you would know the difference between armor class and profession) doesn’t mean you know how to excel with it. Just because you roll a warrior, craft it up to 80, and slot some exos with ruby orbs doesn’t mean you’re pro. It means you’re just like everyone else, I’m afraid.
Actually I think he was talking about the damage output of two people who are equally proficient at playing their respective professions. It seems to me that you are avoiding the facts behind Ayrilana’s painfully simple sentence. Skill is not equal to magic, I’m afraid.
You are correct. My statement was actually addressing two points, one of which you mentioned. Perhaps I should’ve spent a little more time to elaborate my points.
My other point was that Chopps main is obviously ranger. He made a statement that Strife was afraid of trying out ranger and testing it out. He also said you needed to play a “profession” (class and profession are synonymous in the RPG genre FYI) for an X amount of time in able to be skilled in it.
How can he make a claim against warrior and other classes when he’s not skilled at them by his own definition yet accuse others about making a claim against archers when they are not skilled according to his definition? Sorry Chopps but it goes both ways.
To simplify: he’s being hypocritical.
I should also add that the first person to make a claim is normally the one to present facts to defend it. Chopps made the first claim that ranger damage was awesome and was called out. The one that called him out is not required to make the initial submission of proof.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.