Guild Wars 2

Given that i cant trade my thousand tomes for experience, could i maybe trade the thousand hours i waste waiting for que for the just few hours of headless running around hot maps that awaits me?

Pvp mains doing pve occasionally rant aside,

I dont like the idea.

Its a hard gate of low difficulty farm.
Just make raids hard, its why poeple like them not cz they have an /age limit to enter.

Jahroots.6791:

You lot would be surprised how many experienced and skilled players are at endgame and don’t have 100, let alone 166 mastery points. I’ve run T4 fractals with quite a few people in the 10K+ AP range who fit this description.

To be fair though, it really isn’t hard to max gliding, unless you’ve made the mistake of spending all your points on the other mastery lines. For months people have been advising others to make sure they max gliding first, both here and in-game, so I don’t think this will be much of an issue for the raiding community.

That said, earning masteries isn’t a simple matter of ‘playing the game’. Let’s be honest – many of them require completion of a number of unsatisfying and often frivolous achievements that under other circumstances, would be entirely ignored.

You said it yourself, this is a non-issue for the raiding community. Anyone with an interest in raiding understands masteries have an involvement for many bosses, with the entry-level bosses of the first two wings not requiring any.

It would be utterly different if it were a hard requirement like a forced gear-check, not even allowing you to zone in without everyone actively wearing full ascended gear. This mastery approach is the least intrusive option for seeing if the players raiding are competent at the Magumma Masteries, much like how they have been for the previous wings.

“we are hardcore raiders who play this game to much”
“this is the ultimate content and should be the most challenging”
“What do you mean it requires us to actually have done other content?!”
“how dare you expect us to do content to raid”

I’m sure it is a vocal minority, but this is a bit silly.

I think people just forget we’re talking about THIRD wing. No one forces you to do it and those who are willing to will find a way to get ley-line. ( and most raiders have it by now )
Grow up. If you want to do high-end content then meet the requirements. Wining about only makes you look like a kitten.

I just gotta hope they’re trolling…?

For the record, I am cool with this requirement, and totally support it. In fact, they should have done something like this much sooner if you ask me.

Raiding is end-game, hard content. I thought it was assumed that Masteries would be play a big role and be necessary. Why would they even exist otherwise? The Mastery system was put into place so the game can be streamlined to more easily grow and have new added mechanics. To complain that you don’t want to acquire them to do new upcoming content is just silly.

To me requiring a maxed out mastery line for endgame content is like requiring a player to be at max level for endgame content.

Raids should have a casual button (cause the game is or should be casual firendly). However i agree with those who defend in this case that having gliding on max lvl is just something… natural, is not a hardcore thing.
And remember Gayle’s post is just to let you know. If you dont have it, you can focus into it. Thats why this post has been created. So if you want to play that wing, less complaint, and more winning exp to lvl it up XD. The wing wont come in at least a month or so anyway. So you have time, start now.

Said all that, and returning to my first sentence, i still think raids should have at least an “infantil mode” where you can experience the story of it, without fighting with bosses and without loot.

I miss the good old time when one of the selling points of this game was “play the way you like”.

Now it’s more and more “play the way Arenanet want”.

Blanche Neige.7241:

I miss the good old time when one of the selling points of this game was “play the way you like”.

Now it’s more and more “play the way Arenanet want”.

Nothing stopping you from playing your way, they’re just telling you in advance…you’re gonna fail.

But please continue blaming Anet for things that are the players fault. 269 days it’s been known masteries would be tied to raids and additionally you’ve had 214 days of being able to get said masteries. 189 days of knowing that HoT masteries were used in raids.

Time to stop blaming anet.

Blanche Neige.7241:

I miss the good old time when one of the selling points of this game was “play the way you like”.

Now it’s more and more “play the way Arenanet want”.

How upset were you that Gorseval required updraft gliding? On a scale of 1 to 10 with a 1 being finding out they are bringing back Firefly and a 10 being your mom catching you clomping to my little pony please advise us.

Seriously casuals complaining about not having ley line gliding now? No one complained about updraft at gorseval or Sapper bombs, fountain cleanse etc.

You had 8months? to get this maxed.

i never said i was upset about it. i never said it was impossible to do, or even hard to do. i never even actually complained about the need for it

i just said i wasn’t going to do it because i don’t enjoy that aspect of the game, and i thanked Gaile for informing me ahead of time that it was going to be an integral aspect of the upcoming raid wing. it let me cross something off my "things i don’t give two flying flips about" list. like sPvP. that can also go take a flying leap. it’s not an aspect of the game that i enjoy. dabble in occasionally, yes. bother myself to grind through it for the reward? no. *to me*, not worth it.

if someone else wants to do it because they enjoy it... knock yourself the kitten out. please. by all means. but quit putting words in my mouth.

...but all the self-righteous bullkitten and puffery is *so* reinforcing my desire to stay away. thank you for that too.

going back to wvw to kill dudes now.

katz.8376:

i never said i was upset about it. i never said it was impossible to do, or even hard to do. i never even actually complained about the need for it

i just said i wasn’t going to do it because i don’t enjoy that aspect of the game, and i thanked Gaile for informing me ahead of time that it was going to be an integral aspect of the upcoming raid wing. it let me cross something off my “things i don’t give two flying flips about” list. like sPvP. that can also go take a flying leap. it’s not an aspect of the game that i enjoy. dabble in occasionally, yes. bother myself to grind through it for the reward? no. to me, not worth it.

if someone else wants to do it because they enjoy it… knock yourself the kitten out. please. by all means. but quit putting words in my mouth.

…but all the self-righteous bullkitten and puffery is so reinforcing my desire to stay away. thank you for that too.

going back to wvw to kill dudes now.

Make sure you got that auto loot unlocked!

Zomaarwat.3912:

Pointing out that “people who don’t do PvE” would then also not do raids, because raids are PvE, see?

Um… No. As I said, many people who do not do PvE do raids because of the challenge. And Raids are niche section of PvE that are significantly more challenging (for some impossible) than the rest of PvE. That is why many of those people don’t play PvE because it offers no challenge.

So to assume that just because raids fall into the official PvE category, doesn’t mean that it appeals to just the PvE set.

In fact, I know many PvE only people in my mid sized guild that want nothing to do with raids because of the difficulty level. They don’t view raids as PvE content no matter if that is where it is officially placed by ANet or not.

jheryn.8390:

Zomaarwat.3912:

Pointing out that “people who don’t do PvE” would then also not do raids, because raids are PvE, see?

Um… No. As I said, many people who do not do PvE do raids because of the challenge. And Raids are niche section of PvE that are significantly more challenging (for some impossible) than the rest of PvE. That is why many of those people don’t play PvE because it offers no challenge.

So to assume that just because raids fall into the official PvE category, doesn’t mean that it appeals to just the PvE set.

In fact, I know many PvE only people in my mid sized guild that want nothing to do with raids because of the difficulty level. They don’t view raids as PvE content no matter if that is where it is officially placed by ANet or not.

Yes.

I got in to raids because of the challenge and I came from WvW (almost 5k rank and 250k kills for nearly 2 years).

It takes less than a day to get all the mastery points.

And any serious raider would have already done some pve to unlock stat combinations or pets (in the case of druid).

Gaile has very kindly given us a heads-up about this requirement. We’ll complain about anything.

Hate to be that guy, but I love how the reddit thread resulted in speculation about what mechanics requiring Ley Line gliding could be.

On the other hand, the official thread devolved into griping…

If people haven’t maxed out gliding by now they should reconsider their playstyle. If they are so lazy why bother playing an MMO anyways.

Almost everyone i see in raids has 166 mastery points, so should be no problem.

ProtoGunner.4953:

If people haven’t maxed out gliding by now they should reconsider their playstyle. If they are so lazy why bother playing an MMO anyways.

What if they simply do not like the HoT maps? Ever think of that?

For many people that enjoy WvW, or EotM, Mainland Mastery Line was super easy because WvW rewarded Mainland Exp. many of us capped our mastery lines before we even knew what they were about, and some people were just doing mastery lines because we didn’t want to waste the EXP. Now, if game modes like WvW and EotM had rewarded HoT Exp as well then it would have made sense that they also had their HoT mastery Lines done. But for people who enjoy WvW, they would need to stop doing WvW, and go do HoT exclusively to cap their mastery lines.

Now, I get that people who only do PvE may miss this, but for people who do WvW, all the time they are spending grinding some stupid PvE content, is time they are not defending their borders, time they are not contributing to their side to win. It’s one thing to put aside maybe an hour a week right before reset, to go do a bit of PvE content, it’s a whole other thing to demand they put away the time cap a mastery.

Honestly, these kitten responses by PvE players, really make me wish they would bring back WvW map Completion for Legendary Items.

Sird.4536:

Make sure you got that auto loot unlocked!

which one? pact mastery i only finally just got recently… after getting enough xp from my occasional fractal runs with friends… the WvW one i had fully unlocked the day it was released.

STIHL.2489:

ProtoGunner.4953:

If people haven’t maxed out gliding by now they should reconsider their playstyle. If they are so lazy why bother playing an MMO anyways.

What if they simply do not like the HoT maps? Ever think of that?

For many people that enjoy WvW, or EotM, Mainland Mastery Line was super easy because WvW rewarded Mainland Exp. many of us capped our mastery lines before we even knew what they were about, and some people were just doing mastery lines because we didn’t want to waste the EXP. Now, if game modes like WvW and EotM had rewarded HoT Exp as well then it would have made sense that they also had their HoT mastery Lines done. But for people who enjoy WvW, they would need to stop doing WvW, and go do HoT exclusively to cap their mastery lines.

Now, I get that people who only do PvE may miss this, but for people who do WvW, all the time they are spending grinding some stupid PvE content, is time they are not defending their borders, time they are not contributing to their side to win. It’s one thing to put aside maybe an hour a week right before reset, to go do a bit of PvE content, it’s a whole other thing to demand they put away the time cap a mastery.

Honestly, these kitten responses by PvE players, really make me wish they would bring back WvW map Completion for Legendary Items.

You can get HOT exp by actually doing the raids. This argument seems more theoretical than practical.

Absurdo.8309:

This argument seems more theoretical than practical.

Creating and responding to hypothetical fake problems is just another form of concern trolling. On reddit these type of things get downvoted to oblivion, here they just go on forever.

Jahroots.6791:

You lot would be surprised how many experienced and skilled players are at endgame and don’t have 100, let alone 166 mastery points. I’ve run T4 fractals with quite a few people in the 10K+ AP range who fit this description.

To be fair though, it really isn’t hard to max gliding, unless you’ve made the mistake of spending all your points on the other mastery lines. For months people have been advising others to make sure they max gliding first, both here and in-game, so I don’t think this will be much of an issue for the raiding community.

That said, earning masteries isn’t a simple matter of ‘playing the game’. Let’s be honest – many of them require completion of a number of unsatisfying and often frivolous achievements that under other circumstances, would be entirely ignored.

There are only a small number of essential masteries depending on what you want to do. Gliding and updrafts are essential for story, Exalted 1 as well, iirc. Bouncing mushrooms helps too. Beyond that, it’s a matter of preference. For specialization collections, you need a few more such as Itzel language, nuhoch language, exalted acceptance/gathering, stealth gliding, etc. You can still get all of those and Leyline gliding without doing many adventures (I’ve only gotten gold on 2-3 adventures and have Leyline gliding done).

Absurdo.8309:

STIHL.2489:

ProtoGunner.4953:

If people haven’t maxed out gliding by now they should reconsider their playstyle. If they are so lazy why bother playing an MMO anyways.

What if they simply do not like the HoT maps? Ever think of that?

For many people that enjoy WvW, or EotM, Mainland Mastery Line was super easy because WvW rewarded Mainland Exp. many of us capped our mastery lines before we even knew what they were about, and some people were just doing mastery lines because we didn’t want to waste the EXP. Now, if game modes like WvW and EotM had rewarded HoT Exp as well then it would have made sense that they also had their HoT mastery Lines done. But for people who enjoy WvW, they would need to stop doing WvW, and go do HoT exclusively to cap their mastery lines.

Now, I get that people who only do PvE may miss this, but for people who do WvW, all the time they are spending grinding some stupid PvE content, is time they are not defending their borders, time they are not contributing to their side to win. It’s one thing to put aside maybe an hour a week right before reset, to go do a bit of PvE content, it’s a whole other thing to demand they put away the time cap a mastery.

Honestly, these kitten responses by PvE players, really make me wish they would bring back WvW map Completion for Legendary Items.

You can get HOT exp by actually doing the raids. This argument seems more theoretical than practical.

It’s not hypothetical at all, because I kittening hate the HOT maps, I honestly really can’t stand them, the only way I got gliding to tier 3, was because it was the new shiny and I was willing suffer though a few maps, hoping that it would somehow stop sucking after a point… it never did, it ended up just sucking more and more with each additional map I unlocked.

Now, you say you can level a full mastery track just doing the raid, ok fair counter point, so, I guess the question now is, is it really feasible to gain the 13 million Exp doing just the raid?

STIHL.2489:

Now, you say you can level a full mastery track just doing the raid, ok fair counter point, so, I guess the question now is, is it really feasible to gain the 13 million Exp doing just the raid?

The compendiums give a fair amount of exp. Probably about 200-300k per boss kill. The events in between also give exp. For 3 bosses per wing, that’s up to 1.8m exp without boosters. Throw in a booster and that gets bumped up a bit more. Let’s reduce that down to 1.5m exp per week, since the compendiums are from the weekly chest. Works out to just 9 weeks of clearing both wings. A bit longer if you don’t clear Matthias (since some groups can still have trouble with him). Raids have been out since what, November? That’s 6 months or 24+ weeks.

That’s not including the bits and pieces of exp you get for killing other things in the raids, as well as the sub-encounters. You still get a small chunk of exp for killing a boss repeatedly each week, even if the compendium is weekly.

So yes, theoretically possible to max out Leyline solely from raiding. The mastery points are a non-issue, you don’t have to touch adventures to get enough to max out only Gliding.

STIHL.2489:

Now, you say you can level a full mastery track just doing the raid, ok fair counter point, so, I guess the question now is, is it really feasible to gain the 13 million Exp doing just the raid?

Yes it is. Get the mastery points, then go raiding like you always do and you’ll have it done by the time the wing is released and probably some more masteries.

Rashy.4165:

STIHL.2489:

Now, you say you can level a full mastery track just doing the raid, ok fair counter point, so, I guess the question now is, is it really feasible to gain the 13 million Exp doing just the raid?

The compendiums give a fair amount of exp. Probably about 200-300k per boss kill. The events in between also give exp. For 3 bosses per wing, that’s up to 1.8m exp without boosters. Throw in a booster and that gets bumped up a bit more. Let’s reduce that down to 1.5m exp per week, since the compendiums are from the weekly chest. Works out to just 9 weeks of clearing both wings. A bit longer if you don’t clear Matthias (since some groups can still have trouble with him). Raids have been out since what, November? That’s 6 months or 24+ weeks.

That’s not including the bits and pieces of exp you get for killing other things in the raids, as well as the sub-encounters. You still get a small chunk of exp for killing a boss repeatedly each week, even if the compendium is weekly.

So yes, theoretically possible to max out Leyline solely from raiding. The mastery points are a non-issue, you don’t have to touch adventures to get enough to max out only Gliding.

Thanks for the heads up! Great reply!

I don’t see how this is any different than any other raiding requirement. Be thankful they told you in advance.

If you are not willing to put in the time and effort necessary to clear a raid, don’t raid. (doesn’t that sound familiar?)

Ubi.4136:

If you are not willing to put in the time and effort necessary to clear a raid, don’t raid. (doesn’t that sound familiar?)

Except this isn’t time and effort spend actually doing the raid, but preparing to do the raid. It’s grinding to get to the fun stuff.

Getting leyline gliding doesn’t make you more worthy for raids, it doesn’t necessarily will make you better at raiding, it’s just another hoop to jump through in order to do the 3rd raid wing.

Obviously, it doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world, and with the way with stray (possibly) leyline energy going about being absorbed by people and animals, I’m sure it’s more thematic and mechanic.

Just shouldn’t become a “feature” that should be praised.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Ubi.4136:

If you are not willing to put in the time and effort necessary to clear a raid, don’t raid. (doesn’t that sound familiar?)

Except this isn’t time and effort spend actually doing the raid, but preparing to do the raid. It’s grinding to get to the fun stuff.

Getting leyline gliding doesn’t make you more worthy for raids, it doesn’t necessarily will make you better at raiding, it’s just another hoop to jump through in order to do the 3rd raid wing.

Obviously, it doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world, and with the way with stray (possibly) leyline energy going about being absorbed by people and animals, I’m sure it’s more thematic and mechanic.

Just shouldn’t become a “feature” that should be praised.

It’s not a grind not anymore since the changes to HoT maps. People have had months to get this and if you have not don’t blame Anet. They said from the start some mastery abilities will be needed for raids so anyone interested in it would have done the farm. Raids were not released at the launch of HoT you know, people had time to get enough masteries and master points for the first wing and you know what no one complained.

Yet again casuals want everything handed to them on a plate. Work for something in this game.

Y’all people who are complaining about this making things inaccessible need to go play platformers or other types of game where everything is unlocked right now. In RPGs, everything is gated behind something, be it level, money, equipment, traits or whatever else. If you’ve got a problem with that, RPGs are NOT for you.

And yet, I see no one here complaining about the need to level up to be able to play higher level maps like Bloodtide Coast or Orr. Why? It’s exactly the same thing that’s at play. You’ll need to play the game to get exp just like you did when you started playing the game. The difference is that you will do it to unlock a mastery rather than do it to become more powerful. Higher level maps are just as gated to a lvl 5 player as wing 3 will be gated to a level 80. So if this concept of character progression bothers you, why did you ever decide to pick up a RPG to play? All these arguments about “inaccessibility” are completely ridiculous and that noise seriously needs to stop.

Blanche Neige.7241:

I miss the good old time when one of the selling points of this game was “play the way you like”.

Now it’s more and more “play the way Arenanet want”.

It is fun to draw lines out of context.
“play how you want” does not mean be bad, do stupid things it is going to be fine.
It means, when you pick a class you can play it with different role if you like. Sure they are not as competitive for the different roles and playing healer mesmer is far from optimal. Yet in 95% of PvE content you can still do it because there is a weak difficulty fence.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Ubi.4136:

If you are not willing to put in the time and effort necessary to clear a raid, don’t raid. (doesn’t that sound familiar?)

Except this isn’t time and effort spend actually doing the raid, but preparing to do the raid. It’s grinding to get to the fun stuff.

Getting leyline gliding doesn’t make you more worthy for raids, it doesn’t necessarily will make you better at raiding, it’s just another hoop to jump through in order to do the 3rd raid wing.

Obviously, it doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world, and with the way with stray (possibly) leyline energy going about being absorbed by people and animals, I’m sure it’s more thematic and mechanic.

Just shouldn’t become a “feature” that should be praised.

Yeah and leveling up your toon to 80 was “grinding to get the fun stuff”. And yet you and other people who are complaining about this did it without complaining about it. If you don’t like it, don’t play RPGs.

DrEckers.2039:

Hate to be that guy, but I love how the reddit thread resulted in speculation about what mechanics requiring Ley Line gliding could be.

On the other hand, the official thread devolved into griping…

Probably because you get infracted for pretty much nothing on this forum so it’s pretty much impossible to call out or shut down anything in any effective manner and there is no downvote system. So people with arguments or concerns of questionable logic get free reign and never get their arguments invalidated well enough that they learn their lesson and don’t make posts of questionable logic again.

Minstrel.7615:

Raiding is end-game, hard content. I thought it was assumed that Masteries would be play a big role and be necessary. Why would they even exist otherwise? The Mastery system was put into place so the game can be streamlined to more easily grow and have new added mechanics. To complain that you don’t want to acquire them to do new upcoming content is just silly.

Next thing, you’ll hear them complain about how wing 2 is gated because you need the jumping mushroom mastery to get out of the Slothasor room. Or updrafts to get past the bandit camp.

just set your mastery track to gliding, and you’ll get the xp you need just from raiding

Ubi.4136:

I don’t see how this is any different than any other raiding requirement. Be thankful they told you in advance.

What other “raiding requirement” is there? None.

Ubi.4136:

If you are not willing to put in the time and effort necessary to clear a raid, don’t raid. (doesn’t that sound familiar?)

I guess you are choosing to ignore that many posters here who say they are being forced to play PvE in order to raid to the end. Even though raids are poorly deemed PvE, many people who don’t PvE love to raid. Now they are forced to PvE in order to play content they wish to play.

It isn’t advancing in level to play in higher level maps or gain crafting ability. It isn’t progressing a story like getting to the end in DS. This is making them play a genre of GW2 they don’t wish to play but are now forced to do so.

For them it isn’t putting in time and effort to do something for them it is more like “You have to play this different/unrelated game before you can play the game you actually want to play.”

jheryn.8390:

Now they are forced to PvE in order to play content they wish to play.

This is making them play a genre of GW2 they don’t wish to play but are now forced to do so.

For them it isn’t putting in time and effort to do something for them it is more like “You have to play this different/unrelated game before you can play the game you actually want to play.”

Really? You got the announcement some weeks before so you can gain the XP via raiding only if you already haven’t! Raid experience points are enough for that!
On the contrary, while almost all serious raiders/sc’lers I’ve seen in raids so far are owning all or almost 166 points, I doubt that they aren’t or weren’t willing to play any other content than raids. ^^ They also had a look on the new maps and played them when the addon had been released.
Nevertheless, even though a person that is focused on raids followed a minimum to gain the points, he or she would have maxed gliding before Exalted or Nuhoch Lore. I don’t see any little kind of grind here.

Vinceman.4572:

Really? You got the announcement some weeks before so you can gain the XP via raiding only if you already haven’t! Raid experience points are enough for that!
On the contrary, while almost all serious raiders/sc’lers I’ve seen in raids so far are owning all or almost 166 points, I doubt that they aren’t or weren’t willing to play any other content than raids. ^^ They also had a look on the new maps and played them when the addon had been released.
Nevertheless, even though a person that is focused on raids followed a minimum to gain the points, he or she would have maxed gliding before Exalted or Nuhoch Lore. I don’t see any little kind of grind here.

Yes, really. Missing the point much? The ones I know don’t WANT to PvE in order to raid no matter what “advance notice” they are given. Is that a hard concept? Several of my friends in raiding groups have not even bothered to step foot in HoT other than to raid. They don’t care one wit about PvE content other than raids.

And all those that do raid and PvE like myself, did not max out gliding first. I maxed Itzel first. It depends on your focus.

But, since all “serious” raiders you have encountered so far are maxed at 166 or close, then I and every other person who doesn’t like this is wrong. Because, well, you set the standard for the rest of us playing GW2 right? If you don’t see it, then how can it be?

jheryn.8390:

Ubi.4136:

I don’t see how this is any different than any other raiding requirement. Be thankful they told you in advance.

What other “raiding requirement” is there? None.

Ubi.4136:

If you are not willing to put in the time and effort necessary to clear a raid, don’t raid. (doesn’t that sound familiar?)

I guess you are choosing to ignore that many posters here who say they are being forced to play PvE in order to raid to the end. Even though raids are poorly deemed PvE, many people who don’t PvE love to raid. Now they are forced to PvE in order to play content they wish to play.

It isn’t advancing in level to play in higher level maps or gain crafting ability. It isn’t progressing a story like getting to the end in DS. This is making them play a genre of GW2 they don’t wish to play but are now forced to do so.

For them it isn’t putting in time and effort to do something for them it is more like “You have to play this different/unrelated game before you can play the game you actually want to play.”

I have been raiding since day 1 and raids are still my favorite part of the game. Anyone who has been raiding seriously already has advanced gliding, so this is a maximum 12 achievement point “grind” (I’m assuming ley line gliding isn’t your last mastery; if you took nuhoch alchemy before than then you deserve the longer grind lol). That’s like 4-5 hours of time tops if you just look up videos/guide of achievement points. I still don’t have nuchoch alchemy because I don’t care about maxing my achievement points, but if I needed to pick it up for raiding then I would just go out and do it because it’s faster to unlock it than to complain about it on the forums. It seems ridiculous to me that someone would be willing to spend hours and hours each week raiding but won’t put in 4-5 hours one time to be able to continue raiding.

You seem to have some weird profile for someone who loves to raid more than anything but apparently hates the PvE aspect of gw2 so much that he won’t spend a few hours running around grabbing strongboxes and insights in order to continue raiding. I mean kitten it takes more time to prep a new character for raids with tomes, crafting+converting gear, and unlocking elite spec. Not to mention things like farming map currency if you want things like viper gear, commanders gear, rune of thorns, etc. Raiding has always involved a huge amount of PvE preparation, starting with the ascended gear grind eve, and I can’t imagine that someone is willing to go through all that crap but won’t put in a comparatively small effort to unlock ley line gliding. I have not met this theoretical player, and I’ve raided with a whole lot of different people.

On a separate note its also silly to assume anet would keep a HoT mechanic out of the HoT raid just because people don’t want to put in the effort to unlock it.

jheryn.8390:

Yes, really. Missing the point much? The ones I know don’t WANT to PvE in order to raid no matter what “advance notice” they are given. Is that a hard concept? Several of my friends in raiding groups have not even bothered to step foot in HoT other than to raid. They don’t care one wit about PvE content other than raids.

Well, then your friends are a rare species in GW2 if that would be true. But the fact stands: You and your friends are gaining tremendously much xp from raiding only so that is not your problem. You also gain many mastery points and I think you will agree that if your friends are that focused on raids, they already have (almost) all points from both wing because they are easy to achieve. Otherwise they won’t deserve to be called “raiders” in this game.

jheryn.8390:

And all those that do raid and PvE like myself, did not max out gliding first. I maxed Itzel first. It depends on your focus.

That’s why I mentioned Nuhoch and Exalted (50 useless points of 117 existing). Maxing Itzel first is legit. Focusing on Nuhoch and Exalted would have been bs for an intelligent player that has sympathy for content like raids. You can’t tell me it wasn’t possible to get the points along the way. That would be lie and you know it!

jheryn.8390:

But, since all “serious” raiders you have encountered so far are maxed at 166 or close, then I and every other person who doesn’t like this is wrong. Because, well, you set the standard for the rest of us playing GW2 right? If you don’t see it, then how can it be?

I don’t set the standards but I doubt many players were buying HoT only because of raid implementation. There are other games with a bigger focus on such stuff. GW2 is a rookie on that field. Also, the big majority has played the core game for many years before. They have done dungeon farming, fractaling and some other stuff in the game. When HoT was released it wasn’t a big deal for them to gain mastery points and many xp before the first wing came out. You had how many weeks? 3? 6? Enough to get as much as possible and tbh I saw several sc players playing on the new maps according to my friend list. Not just only because they needed the masteries, no it was interesting to have a look at them and to beat the meta events as one of the first people in HoT. I really really don’t believe that there were so many players who haven’t played this game before, just heard Arenanet is releasing a raid and bought this game without doing research about the history with all the desasters and the actual target audience!

And now you even get an announcement several weeks before! So pick up your raid buddies and go together for that little hurdle. You are a well-rehearsed team, no problem to get the required points in minutes.

Edit:
Yourself are over 3 years playing this game. You have played this game all time without having a raid and you knew about this game, the designers, the philosophy and the implementation and you were still playing. So stop the anti-argumentative discussion, it’s ridiculous.

Dinosaurs.8674:

I have been raiding since day 1 and raids are still my favorite part of the game. Anyone who has been raiding seriously already has advanced gliding

There is no way you can make such a claim. The “I want it to be true, therefore it is” approach doesn’t work for anyone.

Dinosaurs.8674:

If you took nuhoch alchemy before than then you deserve the longer grind lol).

I believe I said that Itzel was my first completion not Nuhoch.

Dinosaurs.8674:

That’s like 4-5 hours of time tops if you just look up videos/guide of achievement points.

4-5 hours that some players have absolutely no desire to invest.

Dinosaurs.8674:

I still don’t have nuchoch alchemy because I don’t care about maxing my achievement points, but if I needed to pick it up for raiding then I would just go out and do it because it’s faster to unlock it than to complain about it on the forums. It seems ridiculous to me that someone would be willing to spend hours and hours each week raiding but won’t put in 4-5 hours one time to be able to continue raiding.

Well, because it is ridiculous to you, then it must be for everybody. #facepalm

Dinosaurs.8674:

You seem to have some weird profile for someone who loves to raid more than anything but apparently hates the PvE aspect of gw2 so much that he won’t spend a few hours running around grabbing strongboxes and insights in order to continue raiding.

Before you make comments like this, I suggest you pay attention to what you read (or don’t bother reading). It isn’t me, it is a few of my friends. Mostly WvW players and a couple of PvP players. I happen to love PvE. And their position on PvE isn’t weird at all. They don’t care about PvE because to them there is no challenge.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Raiding has always involved a huge amount of PvE preparation, starting with the ascended gear grind eve, and I can’t imagine that someone is willing to go through all that crap but won’t put in a comparatively small effort to unlock ley line gliding. I have not met this theoretical player, and I’ve raided with a whole lot of different people.

Well again, because you haven’t met them, they must not exist. #eyeroll. Most of these people I know are WvW’ers and have had no problem with ascended weapon or armor creation/acquisition. Many have had ascended box drops they used for their raid armor/weapons and have more to spare. So what other “PvE crap preparation” does anyone have to go through?

Dinosaurs.8674:

On a separate note its also silly to assume anet would keep a HoT mechanic out of the HoT raid just because people don’t want to put in the effort to unlock it.

I don’t disagree with this except that so far, no HoT mechanic is necessary for any other part of the raid and people have come to expect that. Two of these friends of mine bought HoT only and solely for the raids. Now they are regretting their purchase.

Vinceman.4572:

Well, then your friends are a rare species in GW2 if that would be true. But the fact stands: You and your friends are gaining tremendously much xp from raiding only so that is not your problem. You also gain many mastery points and I think you will agree that if your friends are that focused on raids, they already have (almost) all points from both wing because they are easy to achieve. Otherwise they won’t deserve to be called “raiders” in this game.

Again, you act as if you have the most incredible vast knowledge about all players that play the game. Get over yourself. You don’t know how “rare” or “common” any type of player is. They don’t have the points, because they have never bothered with the masteries. And again, who said you get to decide who deserves anything in this game? Was there a vote to elect you that I missed?

Vinceman.4572:

That’s why I mentioned Nuhoch and Exalted (50 useless points of 117 existing). Maxing Itzel first is legit. Focusing on Nuhoch and Exalted would have been bs for an intelligent player that has sympathy for content like raids. You can’t tell me it wasn’t possible to get the points along the way. That would be lie and you know it!

Again, they have never cared about HoT masteries or invested in them, because they don’t care about HoT content. What is it you don’t get about that?

Vinceman.4572:

I don’t set the standards but I doubt many players were buying HoT only because of raid implementation.

Doubt all you want, they are out there whether you have blessed their presence or not.

Vinceman.4572:

There are other games with a bigger focus on such stuff. GW2 is a rookie on that field. [SNIP] blah, blah more blathering about people playing PvE that has nothing to do with the kind of people I am talking about. [SNIP] I really really don’t believe that there were so many players who haven’t played this game before, just heard Arenanet is releasing a raid and bought this game without doing research about the history with all the desasters and the actual target audience!

The people I am talking about were big PvP players in GW1 and moved to PvP and WvW in GW2. They didn’t play PvE in the first game and haven’t in the second. Some of them did buy HoT just for raids. Others heard that the content was more difficult and decided to give PvE another go. All of them quit PvE after a matter of days because it was just more boring PvE to them.

Vinceman.4572:

Edit:
Yourself are over 3 years playing this game. You have played this game all time without having a raid and you knew about this game, the designers, the philosophy and the implementation and you were still playing. So stop the anti-argumentative discussion, it’s ridiculous.

Apparently, so is your reading comprehension and ability to see/have empathy for something beyond your own views.

jheryn.8390:

I don’t disagree with this except that so far, no HoT mechanic is necessary for any other part of the raid and people have come to expect that. Two of these friends of mine bought HoT only and solely for the raids. Now they are regretting their purchase.

You what? Have you never made it to gors? Because I’m pretty sure updrafts are a HoT mechanic. Or perhaps you beat sloth and just sat in his room because oh guess what bouncing mushrooms are a HoT mechanic. Not to mention it was explicitly stated that there would be masteries tied into raids before they came out and even if you missed that then CLEARLY the previous two examples I have mentioned are indicative of Anet using their mastery system in raids and it would be only logical for them to continue this trend.

jheryn.8390:

Again, you act as if you have the most incredible vast knowledge about all players that play the game. Get over yourself. You don’t know how “rare” or “common” any type of player is. They don’t have the points, because they have never bothered with the masteries. And again, who said you get to decide who deserves anything in this game? Was there a vote to elect you that I missed?

Why so aggressive about things that are so easily done and no need to argue about. The time you are investing here should be spend to help your friends. ^^

jheryn.8390:

Again, they have never cared about HoT masteries or invested in them, because they don’t care about HoT content. What is it you don’t get about that?

They needed gliding, they needed mushrooms. Were they complaining about every single thing? They have to be frustrated players, I guess.

jheryn.8390:

Doubt all you want, they are out there whether you have blessed their presence or not.

Yeah, I still want to know the actual number of those players. Compared to the huge amount of raid runs I’ve made. The number is small and because it is so easy to get the required things done the number is negligible.

jheryn.8390:

The people I am talking about were big PvP players in GW1 and moved to PvP and WvW in GW2. They didn’t play PvE in the first game and haven’t in the second. Some of them did buy HoT just for raids. Others heard that the content was more difficult and decided to give PvE another go. All of them quit PvE after a matter of days because it was just more boring PvE to them.

Ye ye, blah blah yourself. Very mature, kiddo! I told you: Pick them up, 30 minutes mastery point run together and you are ready to go in several weeks for the third wing. The xp is no issue because you guys are constantly raiding and you gain enough.

jheryn.8390:

Apparently, so is your reading comprehension and ability to see/have empathy for something beyond your own views.

I read your statement that you are not the said player but that was after my post, so you better read properly and don’t mix timed posts!

jheryn.8390:

o far, no HoT mechanic is necessary for any other part of the raid and people have come to expect that.

Since this is demonstrably wrong, would you care to walk back your point? Or will you post-hoc rationalize it away? I’m curious to see how you react to this!

I’m a little annoyed about the requirement. The only content that I enjoy right now are raids and pvp. And I really don´t like open world pve. I will still unlock the mastery just to be able to play the raid, but it´s a painful and boring experience for me. I haven´t even done the HoT personal story.

The problem for me is not about the time it takes, my problem is that I have to spend that time doing stuff that I don´t like at all.

I have been raiding almost every week since they were released and I only have 37 mastery points and I still need like 20 mastery points to be able to unlock the ley line mastery.

Wing 1 + wing 2 only needed 9 mastery points, 14 if you count the speed mushroom for vale guardian and 17 if you count lean techniques to get back from then cannons faster at sabetha.

For the new wing you will need 25 additional mastery points just because of the ley line mastery, 28 if you didn´t unlock the lean techniques for wing 1, adn you also need a lot of experience points. I hope that at least the mechanic involving the ley line mastery they implement for the fight is going to be fun.

There are some masteries that shouldn´t even exist in my opinion and they are just there for the sake of adding grind like the explosive launch and Forsaken Thicket Waters masteries. They are just passive effect that you don´t even notice once you have them unlocked and only apply to some specific encounters.