Guild Wars 2

NikeEU.7690:

jheryn.8390:

o far, no HoT mechanic is necessary for any other part of the raid and people have come to expect that.

Since this is demonstrably wrong, would you care to walk back your point? Or will you post-hoc rationalize it away? I’m curious to see how you react to this!

No not going to rationalize it away. I just didn’t think about it TBH. I haven’t done sloth yet, so I shouldn’t have made any assumptions about that. I was wrong about that. Sorry to disappoint you by admitting that as it seems you were hoping for an argument.

I wasn’t hoping for an argument. I was hoping for you to post what you posted. What I hoped for and what I expected were pretty different.

Vinceman.4572:

Why so aggressive about things that are so easily done and no need to argue about. The time you are investing here should be spend to help your friends. ^^

Why are you assuming that my friends want to spend time doing that stuff at all? Any aggression I may have toward you is derived from your inability to see something from someone else’s perspective but your own and yet question them about it.

Vinceman.4572:

jheryn.8390:

Doubt all you want, they are out there whether you have blessed their presence or not.

Yeah, I still want to know the actual number of those players. Compared to the huge amount of raid runs I’ve made. The number is small and because it is so easy to get the required things done the number is negligible.

Thank you! Thank you for making my point. You don’t know the numbers yet you still make unfounded assumptions about them.

Vinceman.4572:

Ye ye, blah blah yourself. Very mature, kiddo! I told you: Pick them up, 30 minutes mastery point run together and you are ready to go in several weeks for the third wing. The xp is no issue because you guys are constantly raiding and you gain enough.

So you insult my maturity with the very thing you found immature? Way to prove you are the better, “more mature” person. I stand fully not admonished. As for your broken record “spend x amount of time getting the masteries…” I’m done trying to explain to you. You obviously just don’t or don’t want to get it. You are right about one thing, my (and anyone else I would imagine) spending time arguing with you is a waste of time. You only see your own perspective. So what is the use?

Vinceman.4572:

I read your statement that you are not the said player but that was after my post, so you better read properly and don’t mix timed posts!

I said many times before that it was friends/guild members I was referring to and never gave any indication it was me I was speaking about. So my statement stands. I wasn’t mixing timed posts.

And you still haven’t reacted to the key point: If your friends are constantly raiding, you have 0.0 issues with gaining xp. Absolutely nada, niente, nichts, none! You are getting ENOUGH xp through raiding. You still haven’t understood that?

Since you all are raiding together, form your raid squad, go to the HoT maps and you will acquire enough points to fulfill a complete mastery in less than one hour. While I agree to everyone that it would take longer as a single person, in a group of 3-xx all non-adventury points are very fast to achieve, especially when bringing a mesmer. Furthermore 3 adventures are very easy for reaching gold status. You have to play them 1-2 times.

jheryn.8390:

Thank you! Thank you for making my point. You don’t know the numbers yet you still make unfounded assumptions about them.

Dude, I am raiding constantly and on the contrary to you I cleared both wings and pugged a lot. Since I always check players via single click or just have a look on their chars it is more than noticeable that the huge majority of players has 166 points or at least a number far above 100. Not even 1 out of 50 players I am facing has less points. So yeah, I want to know these numbers because they are infinitesimal.

All I see is complaining and not wanting to take action with little effort needed. And that’s why people with knowledge won’t take your posts seriously.

jheryn.8390:

Ubi.4136:

I don’t see how this is any different than any other raiding requirement. Be thankful they told you in advance.

What other “raiding requirement” is there? None.

Ubi.4136:

If you are not willing to put in the time and effort necessary to clear a raid, don’t raid. (doesn’t that sound familiar?)

I guess you are choosing to ignore that many posters here who say they are being forced to play PvE in order to raid to the end. Even though raids are poorly deemed PvE, many people who don’t PvE love to raid. Now they are forced to PvE in order to play content they wish to play.

It isn’t advancing in level to play in higher level maps or gain crafting ability. It isn’t progressing a story like getting to the end in DS. This is making them play a genre of GW2 they don’t wish to play but are now forced to do so.

For them it isn’t putting in time and effort to do something for them it is more like “You have to play this different/unrelated game before you can play the game you actually want to play.”

First of all, fighting raid bosses in ANY game is the very definition of PvE… trying to argue that raids are not PvE so you shouldn’t have to do preexisting content is beyond silly. You literaly can only earn HoT mastery exp and earn Hot mastery points in HoT maps. It’s very much so “advancing in level to play in higher level maps”. Secondly, Ascended crafting/gear IS a requirement. It may not be a literal requirement, but you will not find a group that will let you join them in exotics and for good reason. +5% damage across 10 people is important when half of the bosses are DPS races.

In no MMORPG are you going to have new end game content that doesn’t require a grind and new qualifications. Masteries are always going to be evolving. That was the entire point of introducing them- to streamline adding new mechanics and abilities in a continuous and concise format. Really, from day one it was officially announced that Masteries will be connected to raids content. Also, you have no idea how Leyline Gliding will be introduced into the game or if there will be mechanics added to it. If they can arbitrarily add bombs and health packs to Shatter while gliding, they can do so much more in raids. Your ignorance here is what would cripple the creativity and intrigue of raids. And again, raids are HARD, ENDGAME content. You know, the stuff that has been demanded by the community for years. It’s not for casuals or even for the entire PvE demographic. People who aren’t willing to put forth effort into preparing for and learning the mechanics of them are not going to complete them. That’s just how endgame works and it makes or breaks an RPG’s longevity, which Anet is clearly looking towards expansion.

You know what? You’ve got a point. Why bother introducing this single time-investment into something you hate, and let’s make it more straight forward that anyone can do anywhere.

Let’s uh, do what every single other MMO did, introduce massive currency sinks for your raiding.

Let’s bring back armor repairs, scale them up specifically for raids so that after a few wipes you have to put in a few gold to repair your armor. Because gold’s something you can get anywhere, that’s more universal!

Oh, and how about we sell tonics for gold as well, that temporarily grant you say, Ley-Line Gliding! Yea! Screw going anywhere near Mordremoth and let’s have costly resist pots- erm I mean Mastery tonics that cost like, 5g a pop for a solid 30 minutes of that mastery working. Though, careful if they run out mid-fight as you aren’t watching buffs.

Costly Armor Repairs and Costly ‘Pot’ Requirements on top of our food and utils, mmm, lovely. I can already sense your drive to work with this system than this silly mastery requirement nonsense.

jheryn.8390:

No not going to rationalize it away. I just didn’t think about it TBH. I haven’t done sloth yet, so I shouldn’t have made any assumptions about that. I was wrong about that. Sorry to disappoint you by admitting that as it seems you were hoping for an argument.

Gorseval (the 2nd boss of Wing 1) requires updraft gliding, another HoT mastery.

I do wonder if a lot of the whiners have even beat vale guard?

Bysvyken.6235:

I do wonder if a lot of the whiners have even beat vale guard?

I am more wondering why all these elite raiders feel the need and urge to attack other posters for simply expressing their feelings on the matter, which is rather ironic, because it seems that people who raid, are the first to attack all other game modes, and put them down, but if anyone says anything negative about raids, they just can’t let it go.

If someone says “Well kitten this, I’m out” they were not talking to you to start with, they were talking to the OP, you’re not gonna change their mind by calling them names, or insulting them, so… why do it?

Why don’t you instead just talk about your opinion of the change, and just let them express their opinion?

cranos.5913:

I have all masteries completed and I was fairly casual about it. 90% of the xp I got through raiding and honestly, it’s not very hard to get the mastery points at all. It doesn’t even take more than a day to get all the points for all masteries, let alone for a single line.

Fallen Masks and Shooting Gallery gold are a stretch, y’know. Fallen Masks with bad RNG…..ugh. I don’t want to see Fallen Masks for as long as the game is still online.

STIHL.2489:

If someone says “Well kitten this, I’m out” they were not talking to you to start with, they were talking to the OP, you’re not gonna change their mind by calling them names, or insulting them, so… why do it?

Why don’t you instead just talk about your opinion of the change, and just let them express their opinion?

To take a pluralized noun like whiners as name calling/insult isn’t on me. Most people whine about one thing or another, that’s just how we are. Maybe I should’ve said “All those people expressing negative opinions of a game mechanic being included in raids”

As for my opinion, it’s just that. Leyline gliding is a game mechanic, presumably this plays part in an interesting raid mechanic.
The modicum of grind to get this is comparatively lax to that of gear grind required in other MMOs.

If your tastes are so refined and specific (e.g. “i like to raid but I absolutely refuse to get 30 mastery points”) you should have the self-awareness to realize that your tastes are so specific and not have unrealistic expectations of being catered to. It’s fine to only like wine produced in a certain region during a certain year by a certain vineyard, but don’t flip out when you encounter a restaurant that doesn’t offer it.

NikeEU.7690:

If your tastes are so refined and specific (e.g. “i like to raid but I absolutely refuse to get 30 mastery points”) you should have the self-awareness to realize that your tastes are so specific and not have unrealistic expectations of being catered to. It’s fine to only like wine produced in a certain region during a certain year by a certain vineyard, but don’t flip out when you encounter a restaurant that doesn’t offer it.

Equally so, someone else should not tell me I need to enjoy some other kind of wine.

In regards to raid difficulty and it’s place on the “end game” tier, the truth is, they could have avoided all this nonsense about who the raid was for by putting in a hard gear check, like requiring a 155 AR, But all the ‘elite raiders’ complained that would be too much work.

I guess everyone has their point when they suddenly feel that it’s too much work, who are you to tell someone else where the line is drawn.

STIHL.2489:

Equally so, someone else should not tell me I need to enjoy some other kind of wine.

That metaphor doesn’t work. The restaurant (anet) offers a selection of wines. You as the consumer can either order from what they have or choose not to have wine with your meal.

What people are doing in this thread is berating the restaurant for not offering the specific vintage they want by posting incredibly whiney (no pun intended) reviews on Yelp.

NikeEU.7690:

STIHL.2489:

Equally so, someone else should not tell me I need to enjoy some other kind of wine.

That metaphor doesn’t work. The restaurant (anet) offers a selection of wines. You as the consumer can either order from what they have or choose not to have wine with your meal.

What people are doing in this thread is berating the restaurant for not offering the specific vintage they want by posting incredibly whiney (no pun intended) reviews on Yelp.

Not at all, what is going on here, is that the Restaurant (GW2) at one time served the exact kind of wine they liked. So they frequented the establishment, gladly enjoying everything on the menu.

Then Anet changes the menu and their wine lists, and does not include the wine they like, so they tell Anet that since they no longer serve the wine they like, they will no longer be ordering from the menu.

Now, that’s all well and good, and everyone should have the right to do just that. Equally so, if someone wants to go in and enjoy the new wine list, and order from the menu to their hearts content, praising Anet, no one is stopping them.

The problem only arises, is when some people can’t handle the fact other people don’t like the wine they like and as opposed to just accepting that, they opt to berate those people who have expressed they don’t like the new wine list by saying something along the lines of “What is your problem, this wine is the best! It’s better then the old wine, you’re just some uncouth savage that could not appreciate good wine if it got shoved up your kitten”

Yah. That’s how most of these discussions go.

And that is why, unlike reddit, the posts about problems stay around on this forums, because some people can’t simply just move on and accept that someone does not like the kind of wine they like, and as opposed to continuing to talk about how much they like the new wine, they just attack those who don’t.

Kasima.8143:

Y’all people who are complaining about this making things inaccessible need to go play platformers or other types of game where everything is unlocked right now. In RPGs, everything is gated behind something, be it level, money, equipment, traits or whatever else. If you’ve got a problem with that, RPGs are NOT for you..

no. you see.. that’s why i play THIS game and not THOSE games… because i don’t LIKE those kind of requirements, and yet, now here they are, being forced upon me. or at least trying to be forced on me.

what i find funny is how many people are like OMG WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS GET GUD NOOOOOB YOU HAVE TO DO THIS THIS IS ENDGAME RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE. no. no i don’t have to do that. and no, i am not a “filthy casual” because i choose not to put up with the bullkitten that seems to be going hand-in-hand with the GW2 raiding scene. i can continue to “raid” in WvW every night and do T4 fractals with my friends as much as i want to and gain so much more enjoyment from the game than putting up with a bunch of elitists telling me how i MUST run my character… and then being forced to run maps that i DON’T LIKE just to get the special snowflake ability to be able to run that raid? well that’s just stacking a suck time on top of another suck time. there are other ways to enjoy the game…

NikeEU.7690:

If your tastes are so refined and specific (e.g. "i like to raid but I absolutely refuse to get 30 mastery points") you should have the self-awareness to realize that your tastes are so specific and not have unrealistic expectations of being catered to. It’s fine to only like wine produced in a certain region during a certain year by a certain vineyard, but don’t flip out when you encounter a restaurant that doesn’t offer it.

well. see... the problem i’m having is i’m saying "i don’t really like wine at all. i just drink it occasionally with my friends. i prefer rum and coke. but now my favorite bar down the road told me "yeah, now to get that wine you have to do 5 pushups and 5 jumping jacks first, then i’ll serve you the wine." no, it’s not that hard to do the minor task required to get the wine, but since i never really liked the wine to begin with, it’s trouble i’m not willing to put myself to... so i thank him for letting me know, and i now ignore the wine and go back to happily drinking my rum and coke. everyone else is flipping out around me saying "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON’T LIKE WINE, YOU UNCULTURED SWINE!!!!" yeah. that makes me want to go drink the wine. sure

katz.8376:

NikeEU.7690:

If your tastes are so refined and specific (e.g. “i like to raid but I absolutely refuse to get 30 mastery points”) you should have the self-awareness to realize that your tastes are so specific and not have unrealistic expectations of being catered to. It’s fine to only like wine produced in a certain region during a certain year by a certain vineyard, but don’t flip out when you encounter a restaurant that doesn’t offer it.

well. see… the problem i’m having is i’m saying "i don’t really like wine at all. i just drink it occasionally with my friends. i prefer rum and coke. but now my favorite bar down the road told me “yeah, now to get that wine you have to do 5 pushups and 5 jumping jacks first, then i’ll serve you the wine.” no, it’s not that hard to do the minor task required to get the wine, but since i never really liked the wine to begin with, it’s trouble i’m not willing to put myself to… so i thank him for letting me know, and i now ignore the wine and go back to happily drinking my rum and coke. everyone else is flipping out around me saying “WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON’T LIKE WINE, YOU UNCULTURED SWINE!!!!” yeah. that makes me want to go drink the wine. sure

Actually, we aren’t trying to convince you to drink the wine. We don’t care what you choose to do. all we want you to do is not make mountains out of molehills with these QQ posts about how much you dislike getting leyline gliding. This is the most minor issue imaginable being blown to epic proportions by people who would be best off remaining quiet.

NikeEU.7690:

This is the most minor issue imaginable being blown to epic proportions by people who would be best off remaining quiet.

And people who by their own accounts, don’t even enjoy the game :’)

STIHL.2489:

Bysvyken.6235:

I do wonder if a lot of the whiners have even beat vale guard?

I am more wondering why all these elite raiders feel the need and urge to attack other posters for simply expressing their feelings on the matter, which is rather ironic, because it seems that people who raid, are the first to attack all other game modes, and put them down, but if anyone says anything negative about raids, they just can’t let it go.

If someone says “Well kitten this, I’m out” they were not talking to you to start with, they were talking to the OP, you’re not gonna change their mind by calling them names, or insulting them, so… why do it?

Why don’t you instead just talk about your opinion of the change, and just let them express their opinion?

Several opinions in this thread are factually incorrect, misinformed, or so far out of the norm that the opinions do not deserve equal weight.

To address some points above, I find that real world analogies are rarely helpful on these forums. People nitpick on the analogy instead of the merits of the idea.

The fact is, you’ll get enough experience from raids to level up the masteries.

The fact is, several of the bosses already require mastery points, or players gain an advantage from certain masteries.

The fact is, it really doesn’t take that long to max out mastery points. Took me less than a day. It’ll take even less time if your only goal is ley line gliding.

The fact is, several of the meta builds require HOT content to unlock. See, eg, vipers stats.

And, just my opinion here, I’d rather experience the HOT masteries in a raid like environment, than cow-tow to a minority of players who can’t spend a couple of hours unlocking it. Dive bombing during shatterer or the patriarch is incredibly satisfying. Can’t wait to see what they put in raids.

NikeEU.7690:

Actually, we aren’t trying to convince you to drink the wine. We don’t care what you choose to do. all we want you to do is not make mountains out of molehills with these QQ posts about how much you dislike getting leyline gliding. This is the most minor issue imaginable being blown to epic proportions by people who would be best off remaining quiet.

I don’t believe you. It is pretty obvious that you do care what others choose to do or you would let them express their opinions and not say a word. If you really don’t care, why bother to comment at all?

It only becomes a mountain issue when people start telling others that their opinions don’t matter and why they are stupid for those opinions, etc., etc. Belittling others is never going to get people to your way of thinking. Most people would let it drop after they express their opinions, but to many unnecessarily feel the need to be rude.

To make a statement like “people who would be best off remaining quiet” requires a lot of arrogance and self importance. Who are you to say who should and who should not comment on anything no matter what the subject?

Get the mastery or don’t do the raid boss that requires it; there are other raid wings and bosses in the third wing which don’t require the mastery for you to play if you don’t want to get the mastery. It’s really that simple.

If you’re opposed to the concept of masteries being required for raids, my opinion is that I disagree with you because raids are end-game PvE content and masteries are like leveling up skills for use in PvE. It makes perfect sense to me to incorporate masteries into raids, like the Speed/Adrenal Mushrooms in Spirit Vale, the Updraft on Gorseval, and now Ley Line Gliding in wing 3. I personally wish they’d validate even more masteries by using them in raids either optionally or otherwise.

STIHL.2489:

Not at all, what is going on here, is that the Restaurant (GW2) at one time served the exact kind of wine they liked. So they frequented the establishment, gladly enjoying everything on the menu.

Then Anet changes the menu and their wine lists, and does not include the wine they like, so they tell Anet that since they no longer serve the wine they like, they will no longer be ordering from the menu.

And what content ’’wine’’ did they removed concerning raid? I mean, ya they did remove stuff with HoT or put the stuff behind HoT that used to be core, but it’s about raid. A content that wasn’t there and never changed. To date, they only added different content ’’wine’’ to their menu. Some of which that some people like and other that some people disliked. Did they had raid before and changed it? No. Did they add requirement that used to be not there to the existing wing? No.

jheryn.8390:

I don’t believe you. It is pretty obvious that you do care what others choose to do or you would let them express their opinions and not say a word. If you really don’t care, why bother to comment at all?

Because people try to actively change the current raid that he like. It’s a content that he enjoy, and people that don’t like it are trying to change it. In the case of this particular tread it happen that we find the ley-line glinging an extremely good idea. Something different that will add fun to new raid fight and we don’t want Anet to scrap that idea entirely because a bunch of people don’t want to put a couple of hours to level up their masteries. We don’t give a kitten if you don’t like the content, but we care when people want to change what we like about the game.

Thaddeus.4891:

jheryn.8390:

I don’t believe you. It is pretty obvious that you do care what others choose to do or you would let them express their opinions and not say a word. If you really don’t care, why bother to comment at all?

Because people try to actively change the current raid that he like. It’s a content that he enjoy, and people that don’t like it are trying to change it. In the case of this particular tread it happen that we find the ley-line glinging an extremely good idea. Something different that will add fun to new raid fight and we don’t want Anet to scrap that idea entirely because a bunch of people don’t want to put a couple of hours to level up their masteries. We don’t give a kitten if you don’t like the content, but we care when people want to change what we like about the game.

Did you even read the post I was responding to? Did you even read what I said? He or she said they didn’t care what we choose to do and don’t care about our opinions. I said “IF YOU DON’T CARE…” Read.

But you did put us on equal ground. I don’t give a kitten if you do like the content. If I and others don’t like something, we have as much right to express our opinions as you do. We have the right to ask for something to be changed if we want to.

Some of these people don’t want to do the ley line gliding. Then End. You can have your opinion just respect that others have theirs as well.

NikeEU.7690:

Actually, we aren’t trying to convince you to drink the wine.

Go read the other posts.. yah.. you are.

We don’t care what you choose to do.

If you really didn’t care, you would not spend all your effort trying to attack the people who don’t like the change instead trying to talk about how excited you are for the change among people that agree with you. Both kinds of people exist on this topic, so why are you only talking to one of them?

Absurdo nailed it.

Why bother posting an uninformed opinion, it’s very, very close to forum trolls who make ludicrous claims that degrade discussions. It doesn’t help anyone, saying ‘I just don’t like it!’ is not constructive in the least.

And I still extremely doubt there are raiders who refuse to PvE completely given certain most effective builds in raids require participation in at the very least Auric Basin. For such a trivial task as well, I believe it is outlandish that they wouldn’t.

Honestly, the mastery system works quite well with the raiding paradigm Arenanet has, where they can design encounters around certain capabilities the raiders might have earned while doing the easier content. It’s a lovely flow from just starting out in Verdant Brink to gliding like a boss against Gorseval.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Get the mastery or don’t do the raid boss that requires it; there are other raid wings and bosses in the third wing which don’t require the mastery for you to play if you don’t want to get the mastery. It’s really that simple.

If you’re opposed to the concept of masteries being required for raids, my opinion is that I disagree with you because raids are end-game PvE content and masteries are like leveling up skills for use in PvE. It makes perfect sense to me to incorporate masteries into raids, like the Speed/Adrenal Mushrooms in Spirit Vale, the Updraft on Gorseval, and now Ley Line Gliding in wing 3. I personally wish they’d validate even more masteries by using them in raids either optionally or otherwise.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

It would drastically gate accessibility and ease of entry into the raiding scene if you required anything beyond mushrooms and maxed gliding.

I don’t want people who I invite to come raid with me in this game to be told " You’re gonna grind braindead dynamic events and waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals or camping NPC’s for specific dynamic event steps to get enough mastery and xp to be raid ready".

WoW doesn’t do this. You can virtually gear up for entry to raids in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar in a week or two of 2-3 hour play sessions.

Guild Wars 2 should be no different.

Raids should be easy to access and difficult to complete by virtue of their combat mechanics, not silly unnecessary gating.

To anyone who played GW1, you know how stupid Lightbringer ranks were for DoA. EoTN was equally cancerous.

Zenith.7301:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Get the mastery or don’t do the raid boss that requires it; there are other raid wings and bosses in the third wing which don’t require the mastery for you to play if you don’t want to get the mastery. It’s really that simple.

If you’re opposed to the concept of masteries being required for raids, my opinion is that I disagree with you because raids are end-game PvE content and masteries are like leveling up skills for use in PvE. It makes perfect sense to me to incorporate masteries into raids, like the Speed/Adrenal Mushrooms in Spirit Vale, the Updraft on Gorseval, and now Ley Line Gliding in wing 3. I personally wish they’d validate even more masteries by using them in raids either optionally or otherwise.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

It would drastically gate accessibility and ease of entry into the raiding scene if you required anything beyond mushrooms and maxed gliding.

I don’t want people who I invite to come raid with me in this game to be told " You’re gonna grind braindead dynamic events and waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals or camping NPC’s for specific dynamic event steps to get enough mastery and xp to be raid ready".

WoW doesn’t do this. You can virtually gear up for entry to raids in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar in a week or two of 2-3 hour play sessions.

Guild Wars 2 should be no different.

Raids should be easy to access and difficult to complete by virtue of their combat mechanics, not silly unnecessary gating.

To anyone who played GW1, you know how stupid Lightbringer ranks were for DoA. EoTN was equally cancerous.

But raids are super easy to access. You get into raid 2 without ever even doing raid 1. Most games require you to finish the first raid part before you even can get into raid 2. I personally think that’s how it shoulda been done but anet was nice and said nope you can walk straight into part 2 without ever needing to do part 1. I’m glad they are making you get ley line for this part. They should of made everyone in the party have to use it but instead we being VERY generous with only saying half the raid will need it. They are going above and beyond to making raids accessible for people just walking into the raid like a stroll in the park. Haha

Zenith.7301:

waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals

Haha yes “days” …

Zenith.7301:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Get the mastery or don’t do the raid boss that requires it; there are other raid wings and bosses in the third wing which don’t require the mastery for you to play if you don’t want to get the mastery. It’s really that simple.

If you’re opposed to the concept of masteries being required for raids, my opinion is that I disagree with you because raids are end-game PvE content and masteries are like leveling up skills for use in PvE. It makes perfect sense to me to incorporate masteries into raids, like the Speed/Adrenal Mushrooms in Spirit Vale, the Updraft on Gorseval, and now Ley Line Gliding in wing 3. I personally wish they’d validate even more masteries by using them in raids either optionally or otherwise.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

It would drastically gate accessibility and ease of entry into the raiding scene if you required anything beyond mushrooms and maxed gliding.

I don’t want people who I invite to come raid with me in this game to be told " You’re gonna grind braindead dynamic events and waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals or camping NPC’s for specific dynamic event steps to get enough mastery and xp to be raid ready".

WoW doesn’t do this. You can virtually gear up for entry to raids in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar in a week or two of 2-3 hour play sessions.

Guild Wars 2 should be no different.

Raids should be easy to access and difficult to complete by virtue of their combat mechanics, not silly unnecessary gating.

To anyone who played GW1, you know how stupid Lightbringer ranks were for DoA. EoTN was equally cancerous.

This is an inaccurate assumption. Leyline mastery requires around 31 mastery points, which is not difficult to get. Get silver on most of the adventures, channel the mastery insights, do some achievements, and voila, you get 31 mastery points! For experience, pop a booster and do Dragon’s Stand once or more a day. All of this will let you finish leyline gliding in around a week, with 2-3 hours per day.

And you know what? It’s account-wide. All of your characters will get it, which means you only do it once. I don’t know about you, but I far prefer this to grinding for gear, which IIRC is the norm in other MMO raids.

Masteries have been a part of ‘combat mechanics’ for a while now. You have mushrooms and gliding in the raid, not to mention the specific raiding masteries as well. What constitutes as ‘silly, unneccesary gating’ would be locking it behind gear stats, which doesn’t strictly happen. And I’m saying this as someone who’s not even on rank 166 for masteries.

This is a non-issue, and the biggest uproar seems to be from the ones the raids are targeting the least.

Absurdo.8309:

It’s fine to give your opinion, but it’s also valid to discount it completely because you don’t actually raid.

Be honest: would you actually raid if ley line gliding wasn’t a requirement? And keep in mind that only 1 out of the 9 raid bosses will actually require the mastery.

I know that player, mainly from WvW, and they do raid, how much I do not know, but I do know that they raid.

I’m hesitant to use an analogy here because they are nit picked to death. But try to empathize: How would you feel if I, who play 0 WvW, criticized a WVW-related decision? Take server-linking for example

As someone who is very heavy into WvW, I can honestly tell you, feel free to toss your voice into the storm. And I can say with certainty that at least some of us, will be far more polite to you, then you have been to us.

STIHL.2489:

I’m hesitant to use an analogy here because they are nit picked to death. But try to empathize: How would you feel if I, who play 0 WvW, criticized a WVW-related decision? Take server-linking for example

As someone who is very heavy into WvW, I can honestly tell you, feel free to toss your voice into the storm. And I can say with certainty that at least some of us, will be far more polite to you, then you have been to us.

You know very well what he meant STIHL. We can discuss the finer details of etiquette and language, but ultimately you slightly dodged his question. How would you feel if someone with zero knowledge of a part of this game, began demanding changes to that part? Should that feedback be considered?

Here’s one, let’s say I am a complete novice at SPvP, and yet I hate fighting Warriors in SPvP because an asuran warrior gunflamed me once in my first match, is my following suggestion ‘Can we remove Warriors from SPvP…’ to be taken seriously? Should Arenanet even listen to those kinds of voices?

Sykper.6583:

STIHL.2489:

I’m hesitant to use an analogy here because they are nit picked to death. But try to empathize: How would you feel if I, who play 0 WvW, criticized a WVW-related decision? Take server-linking for example

As someone who is very heavy into WvW, I can honestly tell you, feel free to toss your voice into the storm. And I can say with certainty that at least some of us, will be far more polite to you, then you have been to us.

You know very well what he meant STIHL. We can discuss the finer details of etiquette and language, but ultimately you slightly dodged his question. How would you feel if someone with zero knowledge of a part of this game, began demanding changes to that part? Should that feedback be considered?

Here’s one, let’s say I am a complete novice at SPvP, and yet I hate fighting Warriors in SPvP because an asuran warrior gunflamed me once in my first match, is my following suggestion ‘Can we remove Warriors from SPvP…’ to be taken seriously? Should Arenanet even listen to those kinds of voices?

I didn’t see anyone demand changes on this topic, You must be getting your topics confused.

But really, go give it a try, see what happens. Some might take the bait, but there is a good chance most would simply ignore you as opposed to get into a tizzy over what you said.

Depending on how inciting you can make your post and how well you can fake it. But new players getting killed and then throwing a fit demanding game chances, is like Tuesday to us PvP players.

Sabetha.4910:

Zenith.7301:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Get the mastery or don’t do the raid boss that requires it; there are other raid wings and bosses in the third wing which don’t require the mastery for you to play if you don’t want to get the mastery. It’s really that simple.

If you’re opposed to the concept of masteries being required for raids, my opinion is that I disagree with you because raids are end-game PvE content and masteries are like leveling up skills for use in PvE. It makes perfect sense to me to incorporate masteries into raids, like the Speed/Adrenal Mushrooms in Spirit Vale, the Updraft on Gorseval, and now Ley Line Gliding in wing 3. I personally wish they’d validate even more masteries by using them in raids either optionally or otherwise.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

It would drastically gate accessibility and ease of entry into the raiding scene if you required anything beyond mushrooms and maxed gliding.

I don’t want people who I invite to come raid with me in this game to be told " You’re gonna grind braindead dynamic events and waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals or camping NPC’s for specific dynamic event steps to get enough mastery and xp to be raid ready".

WoW doesn’t do this. You can virtually gear up for entry to raids in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar in a week or two of 2-3 hour play sessions.

Guild Wars 2 should be no different.

Raids should be easy to access and difficult to complete by virtue of their combat mechanics, not silly unnecessary gating.

To anyone who played GW1, you know how stupid Lightbringer ranks were for DoA. EoTN was equally cancerous.

This is an inaccurate assumption. Leyline mastery requires around 31 mastery points, which is not difficult to get. Get silver on most of the adventures, channel the mastery insights, do some achievements, and voila, you get 31 mastery points! For experience, pop a booster and do Dragon’s Stand once or more a day. All of this will let you finish leyline gliding in around a week, with 2-3 hours per day.

And you know what? It’s account-wide. All of your characters will get it, which means you only do it once. I don’t know about you, but I far prefer this to grinding for gear, which IIRC is the norm in other MMO raids.

Masteries have been a part of ‘combat mechanics’ for a while now. You have mushrooms and gliding in the raid, not to mention the specific raiding masteries as well. What constitutes as ‘silly, unneccesary gating’ would be locking it behind gear stats, which doesn’t strictly happen. And I’m saying this as someone who’s not even on rank 166 for masteries.

This is a non-issue, and the biggest uproar seems to be from the ones the raids are targeting the least.

Why are you people so bad at actually READING WHAT’S THERE and not WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE?

I said exactly there that ley line gliding and mushroom masteries are fine. Requiring Nuhoc and Exalted maxed on top would be over the top as an entry requirement.

Neox.3497:

Zenith.7301:

waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals

Haha yes “days” …

This might come as a surprise to you, but not everybody has your twitch/platforming skills.

Fallen Masks, Shooting Gallery, the Beetles, Floor Is Lava and Golem are probably going to take people more than a day or two to get gold on.

Zenith.7301:

Sabetha.4910:

Zenith.7301:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Get the mastery or don’t do the raid boss that requires it; there are other raid wings and bosses in the third wing which don’t require the mastery for you to play if you don’t want to get the mastery. It’s really that simple.

If you’re opposed to the concept of masteries being required for raids, my opinion is that I disagree with you because raids are end-game PvE content and masteries are like leveling up skills for use in PvE. It makes perfect sense to me to incorporate masteries into raids, like the Speed/Adrenal Mushrooms in Spirit Vale, the Updraft on Gorseval, and now Ley Line Gliding in wing 3. I personally wish they’d validate even more masteries by using them in raids either optionally or otherwise.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

It would drastically gate accessibility and ease of entry into the raiding scene if you required anything beyond mushrooms and maxed gliding.

I don’t want people who I invite to come raid with me in this game to be told " You’re gonna grind braindead dynamic events and waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals or camping NPC’s for specific dynamic event steps to get enough mastery and xp to be raid ready".

WoW doesn’t do this. You can virtually gear up for entry to raids in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar in a week or two of 2-3 hour play sessions.

Guild Wars 2 should be no different.

Raids should be easy to access and difficult to complete by virtue of their combat mechanics, not silly unnecessary gating.

To anyone who played GW1, you know how stupid Lightbringer ranks were for DoA. EoTN was equally cancerous.

This is an inaccurate assumption. Leyline mastery requires around 31 mastery points, which is not difficult to get. Get silver on most of the adventures, channel the mastery insights, do some achievements, and voila, you get 31 mastery points! For experience, pop a booster and do Dragon’s Stand once or more a day. All of this will let you finish leyline gliding in around a week, with 2-3 hours per day.

And you know what? It’s account-wide. All of your characters will get it, which means you only do it once. I don’t know about you, but I far prefer this to grinding for gear, which IIRC is the norm in other MMO raids.

Masteries have been a part of ‘combat mechanics’ for a while now. You have mushrooms and gliding in the raid, not to mention the specific raiding masteries as well. What constitutes as ‘silly, unneccesary gating’ would be locking it behind gear stats, which doesn’t strictly happen. And I’m saying this as someone who’s not even on rank 166 for masteries.

This is a non-issue, and the biggest uproar seems to be from the ones the raids are targeting the least.

Why are you people so bad at actually READING WHAT’S THERE and not WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE?

I said exactly there that ley line gliding and mushroom masteries are fine. Requiring Nuhoc and Exalted maxed on top would be over the top as an entry requirement.

My reading skills are perfectly fine, thank you. Please stop screeching in caps, it won’t help you get anything across.

You claimed that ‘gating’ raids behind masteries is a bad thing compared to simply grinding the gear required, I made my counterargument of how easy it is to get Leyline Gliding, the only end-tier mastery required in raids. Your point about other masteries being required is redundant, because it hasn’t been done – you’re merely arguing in favor of a slippery slope fallacy.

Perhaps stop reading what you want to see, before accusing others of the same?

I didn’t say gating it behind Ley Line Gliding was a bad thing; I said that the view that putting in more masteries as a replacement for gear check would not be remotely the same time investment.

You are hopeless. Go strawman somebody else.

Zenith.7301:

…
Fallen Masks, Shooting Gallery, the Beetles, Floor Is Lava and Golem are probably going to take people more than a day or two to get gold on.

I agree that some of these adventures might be harder and take more time especially when someone lacks the required skill (or has terrible lag). The thing is, you don’t need any of these goldmedals to achieve maximum 166 mastery tank, let alone maxing out only ley-line gliding and nothing else. There’s a huge leeway for anyone who wants to do his masteries even if he’s a very casual player. I see no problem in that.

As for the WvW players, you’re gonna need to get used to this. I mean I’m not complaining I don’t instantly have all the WvW abilities. You need to be invested in that game mode and grind for a little bit in order to achieve that. It’s the same for PvE. If you want to have masteries (and they will be obviously required for HoT content), you’ll need to spend some time doing the maps. Just because you didn’t even try and immediately go QQ on forums, doesn’t mean you’re not gonna enjoy the maps. Give it a shot and show some flexibility. If you come across a particular issue, I’m sure everyone in this subforum will be more than willing to give you a hand. If you don’t even try, you have absolutely no right to complain.

STIHL.2489:

Sykper.6583:

STIHL.2489:

I’m hesitant to use an analogy here because they are nit picked to death. But try to empathize: How would you feel if I, who play 0 WvW, criticized a WVW-related decision? Take server-linking for example

As someone who is very heavy into WvW, I can honestly tell you, feel free to toss your voice into the storm. And I can say with certainty that at least some of us, will be far more polite to you, then you have been to us.

You know very well what he meant STIHL. We can discuss the finer details of etiquette and language, but ultimately you slightly dodged his question. How would you feel if someone with zero knowledge of a part of this game, began demanding changes to that part? Should that feedback be considered?

Here’s one, let’s say I am a complete novice at SPvP, and yet I hate fighting Warriors in SPvP because an asuran warrior gunflamed me once in my first match, is my following suggestion ‘Can we remove Warriors from SPvP…’ to be taken seriously? Should Arenanet even listen to those kinds of voices?

I didn’t see anyone demand changes on this topic, You must be getting your topics confused.

But really, go give it a try, see what happens. Some might take the bait, but there is a good chance most would simply ignore you as opposed to get into a tizzy over what you said.

Depending on how inciting you can make your post and how well you can fake it. But new players getting killed and then throwing a fit demanding game chances, is like Tuesday to us PvP players.

Right so…

What if it were to grant players in the instance provisional status for those masteries, and only while in the instance? That would make it more accessible.

Given that i cant trade my thousand tomes for experience, could i maybe trade the thousand hours i waste waiting for que for the just few hours of headless running around hot maps that awaits me?

Pvp mains doing pve occasionally rant aside,

I dont like the idea.

Its a hard gate of low difficulty farm.
Just make raids hard, its why poeple like them not cz they have an /age limit to enter.

Yes, really. Missing the point much? The ones I know don’t WANT to PvE in order to raid no matter what “advance notice” they are given. Is that a hard concept? Several of my friends in raiding groups have not even bothered to step foot in HoT other than to raid. They don’t care one wit about PvE content other than raids.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

Are not disagreements with the system in place? And it’s funny that when you say ‘Some might take your bait’ as that is entirely my point. You think it’s a ridiculous idea, but remember what I said about feedback and giving Arenanet a bad message?

The mere possibility that the devs could entertain the idea and implement Warriors being removed from SPvP is completely out there due to voices on the forums is exactly why people are reacting here to ‘raiders’ complaining about how Ley-Line Gliding is just too much for them. It’s absurd, plain and simple. And there hasn’t been one remotely constructive feedback for an alternative other than ironically, as I quoted from a previous page, ‘Just make raids hard’.

What do you think these Masteries are intended to do other than provide unique and potentially difficult encounters depending on what masteries you need to implement?

Zenith.7301:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Get the mastery or don’t do the raid boss that requires it; there are other raid wings and bosses in the third wing which don’t require the mastery for you to play if you don’t want to get the mastery. It’s really that simple.

If you’re opposed to the concept of masteries being required for raids, my opinion is that I disagree with you because raids are end-game PvE content and masteries are like leveling up skills for use in PvE. It makes perfect sense to me to incorporate masteries into raids, like the Speed/Adrenal Mushrooms in Spirit Vale, the Updraft on Gorseval, and now Ley Line Gliding in wing 3. I personally wish they’d validate even more masteries by using them in raids either optionally or otherwise.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

It would drastically gate accessibility and ease of entry into the raiding scene if you required anything beyond mushrooms and maxed gliding.

I don’t want people who I invite to come raid with me in this game to be told " You’re gonna grind braindead dynamic events and waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals or camping NPC’s for specific dynamic event steps to get enough mastery and xp to be raid ready".

WoW doesn’t do this. You can virtually gear up for entry to raids in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar in a week or two of 2-3 hour play sessions.

Guild Wars 2 should be no different.

Raids should be easy to access and difficult to complete by virtue of their combat mechanics, not silly unnecessary gating.

To anyone who played GW1, you know how stupid Lightbringer ranks were for DoA. EoTN was equally cancerous.

The other games don’t do this because they have a gear treadmill. You have had 8 months? To get this mastery and in the April patch they made it even easier for you to get it. Though I guess if DoA was hard for you because of the LB ranks then no wonder you can’t do raids here.

STIHL.2489:

NikeEU.7690:

Actually, we aren’t trying to convince you to drink the wine.

Go read the other posts.. yah.. you are.

We don’t care what you choose to do.

If you really didn’t care, you would not spend all your effort trying to attack the people who don’t like the change instead trying to talk about how excited you are for the change among people that agree with you. Both kinds of people exist on this topic, so why are you only talking to one of them?

No, I’m trying to get criers to stop crying. I don’t really care at all who plays or doesn’t play the raid. I’m not invested in the outcome of whether or not some random person plays the raid or doesn’t. All I would like is the completely out of proportion reaction from the Tear Force Complaint Squad to end. The forums encourage endless complaints from completely myopic individuals with no sense of what they are not entitled to.

Also it’s not a “change.” Every wing of the raid so far has required HoT masteries to get passed at least one boss.

It’s funny that this topic has progressed so far down this path, I only recall two players with actual complaints, one sounded like they hadn’t started raids at all while the other was sort of trolling.

The posts that appear to ‘challenge’ this mastery requirement are simply suggesting that masteries aren’t as easy to get as some players claim. Somehow, it got entirely out of hand from there.

How about we switch this into something a little more positive. Some speculations perhaps? I’m imagining a ‘chase’ of sorts. The boss pursues us along a path (maybe islands or platforms) with some kind of DPS or mechanical requirement needing to be met in order to progress further. Failure to do so would result in a wipe. I’ve enjoyed encounters like this.

Sykper.6583:

STIHL.2489:

Sykper.6583:

STIHL.2489:

I’m hesitant to use an analogy here because they are nit picked to death. But try to empathize: How would you feel if I, who play 0 WvW, criticized a WVW-related decision? Take server-linking for example

As someone who is very heavy into WvW, I can honestly tell you, feel free to toss your voice into the storm. And I can say with certainty that at least some of us, will be far more polite to you, then you have been to us.

You know very well what he meant STIHL. We can discuss the finer details of etiquette and language, but ultimately you slightly dodged his question. How would you feel if someone with zero knowledge of a part of this game, began demanding changes to that part? Should that feedback be considered?

Here’s one, let’s say I am a complete novice at SPvP, and yet I hate fighting Warriors in SPvP because an asuran warrior gunflamed me once in my first match, is my following suggestion ‘Can we remove Warriors from SPvP…’ to be taken seriously? Should Arenanet even listen to those kinds of voices?

I didn’t see anyone demand changes on this topic, You must be getting your topics confused.

But really, go give it a try, see what happens. Some might take the bait, but there is a good chance most would simply ignore you as opposed to get into a tizzy over what you said.

Depending on how inciting you can make your post and how well you can fake it. But new players getting killed and then throwing a fit demanding game chances, is like Tuesday to us PvP players.

Right so…

What if it were to grant players in the instance provisional status for those masteries, and only while in the instance? That would make it more accessible.

Given that i cant trade my thousand tomes for experience, could i maybe trade the thousand hours i waste waiting for que for the just few hours of headless running around hot maps that awaits me?

Pvp mains doing pve occasionally rant aside,

I dont like the idea.

Its a hard gate of low difficulty farm.
Just make raids hard, its why poeple like them not cz they have an /age limit to enter.

Yes, really. Missing the point much? The ones I know don’t WANT to PvE in order to raid no matter what “advance notice” they are given. Is that a hard concept? Several of my friends in raiding groups have not even bothered to step foot in HoT other than to raid. They don’t care one wit about PvE content other than raids.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

Are not disagreements with the system in place? And it’s funny that when you say ‘Some might take your bait’ as that is entirely my point. You think it’s a ridiculous idea, but remember what I said about feedback and giving Arenanet a bad message?

The mere possibility that the devs could entertain the idea and implement Warriors being removed from SPvP is completely out there due to voices on the forums is exactly why people are reacting here to ‘raiders’ complaining about how Ley-Line Gliding is just too much for them. It’s absurd, plain and simple. And there hasn’t been one remotely constructive feedback for an alternative other than ironically, as I quoted from a previous page, ‘Just make raids hard’.

What do you think these Masteries are intended to do other than provide unique and potentially difficult encounters depending on what masteries you need to implement?

Minor Points: Not sure if that’s all the same poster, but re-read what they said, None of them were against this feature itself being put into the Raid itself. IE: They have nothing against the Mastery Requirement being put in. Their main point of contention, at least among people that PvP/WvW, is they would like another way to cap the mastery line outside of being forced to do HoT content, which, yah, gonna say, I support that as well.

I mean, really, Is that too much to ask? Personally I gotta say, that’s not a bad idea if they could trade in a Tome of Knowledge to gain some HoT mastery Exp, or maybe had a HoT Reward Track that gave HoT Mastery Exp. It’s not like they are trying to destroy your precious raids, they just want another way to get what they need to play it.

Secondly:

STIHL.2489:

For the record, I am cool with this requirement, and totally support it. In fact, they should have done something like this much sooner if you ask me.

NikeEU.7690:

STIHL.2489:

NikeEU.7690:

Actually, we aren’t trying to convince you to drink the wine.

Go read the other posts.. yah.. you are.

We don’t care what you choose to do.

If you really didn’t care, you would not spend all your effort trying to attack the people who don’t like the change instead trying to talk about how excited you are for the change among people that agree with you. Both kinds of people exist on this topic, so why are you only talking to one of them?

No, I’m trying to get criers to stop crying. I don’t really care at all who plays or doesn’t play the raid. I’m not invested in the outcome of whether or not some random person plays the raid or doesn’t. All I would like is the completely out of proportion reaction from the Tear Force Complaint Squad to end. The forums encourage endless complaints from completely myopic individuals with no sense of what they are not entitled to.

Nope, the forums don’t, the Forumites do, by dropping everything and responding to them, you feed them.

What you feed, grows. Just saying.

Zenith.7301:

This might come as a surprise to you, but not everybody has your twitch/platforming skills.

Fallen Masks, Shooting Gallery, the Beetles, Floor Is Lava and Golem are probably going to take people more than a day or two to get gold on.

What I don’t understand is that I have all masteries and I think I did 2 maybe 3 gold medal and they were all those that I could do with no problem. I never completed any of those gold adventure you talking about. It didn’t stopped me from maxing all masteries.

Even if you do zero gold adventure you will still have 124 Mastery points, more than the 117 needed.

Jahroots.6791:

It’s funny that this topic has progressed so far down this path, I only recall two players with actual complaints, one sounded like they hadn’t started raids at all while the other was sort of trolling.

The posts that appear to ‘challenge’ this mastery requirement are simply suggesting that masteries aren’t as easy to get as some players claim. Somehow, it got entirely out of hand from there.

How about we switch this into something a little more positive. Some speculations perhaps? I’m imagining a ‘chase’ of sorts. The boss pursues us along a path (maybe islands or platforms) with some kind of DPS or mechanical requirement needing to be met in order to progress further. Failure to do so would result in a wipe. I’ve enjoyed encounters like this.

I’m also hoping for a chase. I’m imagining something like 5 guys fight the boss while the other 5 drop bombs from above.

Zenith.7301:

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

Some of the end-tier masteries aren’t even possibly usable in raids (ie. Exalted Gathering). Furthermore, adrenaline and speedy mushrooms are there to make things easier but aren’t required. That kind of optional mastery usage is also a very effective way to validate masteries, which is all I asked for if you reread my original post. For instance, they could have a big bad Chak be a boss in Wing 3, and then Nuhoch Alchemy would be useful but not required.

Haha this has got to be the only game I have played where being better than someone is either “not possible” or (if you are) it is something you should be insulted for.

People are so lazy they can’t even be asked to play the game to progress in a different part of it.

Zenith.7301:

I didn’t say gating it behind Ley Line Gliding was a bad thing; I said that the view that putting in more masteries as a replacement for gear check would not be remotely the same time investment.

You are hopeless. Go strawman somebody else.

Oh, really?

“I don’t want people who I invite to come raid with me in this game to be told " You’re gonna grind braindead dynamic events and waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals or camping NPC’s for specific dynamic event steps to get enough mastery and xp to be raid ready".

WoW doesn’t do this. You can virtually gear up for entry to raids in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar in a week or two of 2-3 hour play sessions."

Your last sentence implies that the problem with the masteries is time, which has already been shown to be dishonest. I am not strawmanning you. You are simply avoiding the argument you made.

Unless you mean to imply that grinding for gear is a lot more fun than grinding for masteries, despite being 1. Character-bound for some MMOs and 2. Never-ending?

I fail to see the logic in this.

Absurdo.8309:

I’m also hoping for a chase. I’m imagining something like 5 guys fight the boss while the other 5 drop bombs from above.

I am going to bet, it’s more a placement issue, since only half the raid needs it, it’s not going to be an issue of damage, but the ability to do something like get to a ‘circle’ or some other point that needs to be activated.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

People are so lazy they can’t even be asked to play the game to progress in a different part of it.

i’d really like and appreciate it if you’d quit insulting me (and others like me) because i dislike a certain aspect of the game and would prefer to play to have fun.

katz.8376:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

People are so lazy they can’t even be asked to play the game to progress in a different part of it.

i’d really like and appreciate it if you’d quit insulting me (and others like me) because i dislike a certain aspect of the game and would prefer to play to have fun.

Considering that dungeons, fractals and raids are less than 5% it sounds like you dislike 95% of the game and I dont think Anet needs to cater to people who like less than 10% of the game

Malediktus.9250:

katz.8376:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

People are so lazy they can’t even be asked to play the game to progress in a different part of it.

i’d really like and appreciate it if you’d quit insulting me (and others like me) because i dislike a certain aspect of the game and would prefer to play to have fun.

Considering that dungeons, fractals and raids are less than 5% it sounds like you dislike 95% of the game and I dont think Anet needs to cater to people who like less than 10% of the game

I have read many Proponents for raiders make the claim they only enjoy raids, following your logic, Anet should cease to cater to them.

Might want to rethink that logic.