Guild Wars 2

Lipin.7529:

I’ve watched the video, thank you for taking the effort to put this up.

The sad fact is: The elementalist doesnt know how to play her class. Alot of DPS was wasted, elite skills not used, auto attacking, not switching stance.

Alot of the parts of the dungeons were ran with sub-effective strategies.

The video was a pain to watch because your party waits forever before you do anything.

The pros: The party cleared it and while they ran it under sub-effective conditions, it further proofs AC can be ran by ANYBODY.

Yeah, none of us knew how to play our classes. That was part of the point of the video.

Mourningcry.9428:

Lipin.7529:

I’ve watched the video, thank you for taking the effort to put this up.

The sad fact is: The elementalist doesnt know how to play her class. Alot of DPS was wasted, elite skills not used, auto attacking, not switching stance.

Alot of the parts of the dungeons were ran with sub-effective strategies.

The video was a pain to watch because your party waits forever before you do anything.

The pros: The party cleared it and while they ran it under sub-effective conditions, it further proofs AC can be ran by ANYBODY.

Thanks

However, in all fairness, we really tried to run it as if we knew no strategies… just clear everything (with the exception of the burrow order, kholer evades, and gathering the scepter pieces). Sorry the chat was covered up. I’m sure it would have added to the entertainment factor.

Also, these were all alts we put together in a couple of days Most of us didn’t even know when to optimally activate skills, etc.

But it was fun. Thanks for watching.

Hey, I’m so sorry, I tend to be harsh, but your explanation kinda explains it. I’ve always been wanting to let the community know they just have to understand the game to appreciate the dungeons. So, much appreciation for the video and posting it on the forums. Cheers!

So 5 players got past it and 500 players can’t so it must be working as intended for a starter level 35 dungeon…

No one in my guild bothers with this thing anymore they all just ignore it, we run all sorts of dungeons but when you bring up AC it’s no no no… don’t bother it sucks and its not worth the hassle..

Amazing fixes i must say..

Dante.1508:

So 5 players got past it and 500 players can’t so it must be working as intended for a starter level 35 dungeon…

No one in my guild bothers with this thing anymore they all just ignore it, we run all sorts of dungeons but when you bring up AC it’s no no no… don’t bother it sucks and its not worth the hassle..

Amazing fixes i must say..

The explorable mode is not a starter dungeon. Why do people insist on this?

Lipin.7529:

Mourningcry.9428:

Lipin.7529:

I’ve watched the video, thank you for taking the effort to put this up.

The sad fact is: The elementalist doesnt know how to play her class. Alot of DPS was wasted, elite skills not used, auto attacking, not switching stance.

Alot of the parts of the dungeons were ran with sub-effective strategies.

The video was a pain to watch because your party waits forever before you do anything.

The pros: The party cleared it and while they ran it under sub-effective conditions, it further proofs AC can be ran by ANYBODY.

Thanks

However, in all fairness, we really tried to run it as if we knew no strategies… just clear everything (with the exception of the burrow order, kholer evades, and gathering the scepter pieces). Sorry the chat was covered up. I’m sure it would have added to the entertainment factor.

Also, these were all alts we put together in a couple of days Most of us didn’t even know when to optimally activate skills, etc.

But it was fun. Thanks for watching.

Hey, I’m so sorry, I tend to be harsh, but your explanation kinda explains it. I’ve always been wanting to let the community know they just have to understand the game to appreciate the dungeons. So, much appreciation for the video and posting it on the forums. Cheers!

I quite literally did not know how to play an Elementalist. I had leveled her all the way up from 2-35 with crafting just before we went into the dungeon. That’s why if you see at the beginning of the video I’m unlocking my skills before I head in.
But if anything, it further proves that if you know how to play in general, it doesn’t matter how bad you are at a class.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Lipin.7529:

Mourningcry.9428:

Lipin.7529:

I’ve watched the video, thank you for taking the effort to put this up.

The sad fact is: The elementalist doesnt know how to play her class. Alot of DPS was wasted, elite skills not used, auto attacking, not switching stance.

Alot of the parts of the dungeons were ran with sub-effective strategies.

The video was a pain to watch because your party waits forever before you do anything.

The pros: The party cleared it and while they ran it under sub-effective conditions, it further proofs AC can be ran by ANYBODY.

Thanks

However, in all fairness, we really tried to run it as if we knew no strategies… just clear everything (with the exception of the burrow order, kholer evades, and gathering the scepter pieces). Sorry the chat was covered up. I’m sure it would have added to the entertainment factor.

Also, these were all alts we put together in a couple of days Most of us didn’t even know when to optimally activate skills, etc.

But it was fun. Thanks for watching.

Hey, I’m so sorry, I tend to be harsh, but your explanation kinda explains it. I’ve always been wanting to let the community know they just have to understand the game to appreciate the dungeons. So, much appreciation for the video and posting it on the forums. Cheers!

I quite literally did not know how to play an Elementalist. I had leveled her all the way up from 2-35 with crafting just before we went into the dungeon. That’s why if you see at the beginning of the video I’m unlocking my skills before I head in.
But if anything, it further proves that if you know how to play in general, it doesn’t matter how bad you are at a class.

>Say we’re starting.
>First 5 minutes of the video consist of the Elementalist getting her staff skills.
>MVP right here. XD

Lipin.7529:

Hey, I’m so sorry, I tend to be harsh, but your explanation kinda explains it. I’ve always been wanting to let the community know they just have to understand the game to appreciate the dungeons. So, much appreciation for the video and posting it on the forums. Cheers!

No worries…. no way you could have known any of that just by watching the vid.

Thanks again.

Maestro.5376:

Leo G.4501:

Levistis.8356:

I am down for P3, I’m sure our group could complete it. Let’s try to do it this weekend, how would the others fair on that?

I’d enjoy that. Probably wouldn’t have a bunch of people (well, there never was a bunch) watching to see if we succeed, but P3 is presumed harder than 1 and I think P2 is now the ‘hardest’ so yeah, I’d be down for running the other paths. Shouldn’t take very long

Yeah, we should do either P2 or P3 with the same gear this weekend.

I’m in.

Was joking around with Maestro just yesterday… I said that at this rate, we’ll be running Arah naked with a 1-handed melee weapon before long… There will always be more naysayers.

The first run was about as “pure” as you can get given that the group was at the bare minimum, with zero pervious group experience, with very little class knowledge.

Now, we have experience together, we know how these characters play in this specific dungeon, we are a level higher (1 more trait). If anything, we’re no longer the minimum required that we once were.

But hey, if they wanna see it, ok. However, I really believe at this point the requests are more out of spite then a true belief in that AC exp really can’t be done at level 35. We have nothing to gain, and only a lot to lose. If we don’t clear without wiping, even when we complete it, there will be people pointing that out and using that as ammo.

Well, count me in It was fun the first time, sure it will continue to be!

Name a time and day, I’m ready.

Mourningcry.9428:

…
We have nothing to gain, and only a lot to lose. If we don’t clear without wiping, even when we complete it, there will be people pointing that out and using that as ammo.

Just re-read this, and want to clarify. It’s not about my ego about being able to clear w/o a wipe. By “nothing to gain” I mean we can’t “prove” that AC is any more doable by level 35s.

By “lose”, I mean any failure on our part will likely not be used to highlight our shortcoming, but rather to be used by the naysayers as ammo against ANET to further their claims that AC needs to be changed – which is not the case.

Just wanted to clarify.

Mourningcry.9428:

Mourningcry.9428:

…
We have nothing to gain, and only a lot to lose. If we don’t clear without wiping, even when we complete it, there will be people pointing that out and using that as ammo.

Just re-read this, and want to clarify. It’s not about my ego about being able to clear w/o a wipe. By “nothing to gain” I mean we can’t “prove” that AC is any more doable by level 35s.

By “lose”, I mean any failure on our part will likely not be used to highlight our shortcoming, but rather to be used by the naysayers as ammo against ANET to further their claims that AC needs to be changed – which is not the case.

Just wanted to clarify.

Since there’s all this kittening and whining about having a Guardian in our group, I might as well ask you to switch out for your Necro next time.

I think more than anything, it makes me happy to see that you guys have made connections. =D

Maestro.5376:

Mourningcry.9428:

Mourningcry.9428:

…
We have nothing to gain, and only a lot to lose. If we don’t clear without wiping, even when we complete it, there will be people pointing that out and using that as ammo.

Just re-read this, and want to clarify. It’s not about my ego about being able to clear w/o a wipe. By “nothing to gain” I mean we can’t “prove” that AC is any more doable by level 35s.

By “lose”, I mean any failure on our part will likely not be used to highlight our shortcoming, but rather to be used by the naysayers as ammo against ANET to further their claims that AC needs to be changed – which is not the case.

Just wanted to clarify.

Since there’s all this kittening and whining about having a Guardian in our group, I might as well ask you to switch out for your Necro next time.

Dude…but without a guardian, as you saw in the video, we will stand no chance.

Levistis.8356:

Maestro.5376:

Mourningcry.9428:

Mourningcry.9428:

…
We have nothing to gain, and only a lot to lose. If we don’t clear without wiping, even when we complete it, there will be people pointing that out and using that as ammo.

Just re-read this, and want to clarify. It’s not about my ego about being able to clear w/o a wipe. By “nothing to gain” I mean we can’t “prove” that AC is any more doable by level 35s.

By “lose”, I mean any failure on our part will likely not be used to highlight our shortcoming, but rather to be used by the naysayers as ammo against ANET to further their claims that AC needs to be changed – which is not the case.

Just wanted to clarify.

Since there’s all this kittening and whining about having a Guardian in our group, I might as well ask you to switch out for your Necro next time.

Dude…but without a guardian, as you saw in the video, we will stand no chance.

We’ll lose to the first Breeder and call it a day!

Maestro.5376:

Levistis.8356:

Dude…but without a guardian, as you saw in the video, we will stand no chance.

We’ll lose to the first Breeder and call it a day!

Foo… Dertha or Grast may refuse to run with us once they see the group. I wouldn’t blame them either…

Oolune.4357:

Dante.1508:

So 5 players got past it and 500 players can’t so it must be working as intended for a starter level 35 dungeon…

No one in my guild bothers with this thing anymore they all just ignore it, we run all sorts of dungeons but when you bring up AC it’s no no no… don’t bother it sucks and its not worth the hassle..

Amazing fixes i must say..

The explorable mode is not a starter dungeon. Why do people insist on this?

Technically, it is a “starter” dungeon. People make the assumption that this isn’t the first explore mode dungeon, which adds slightly different mechanics than that of storymode.

In all honesty, it should be the starting block for all low level characters on how the paths you take lead to different outcomes and what to expect from there on out since there’s no direct tutorial on how stuff works.

Why do people need tutorials for everything? Do you want ANet to take you by the hand and help you throught the entire game? THAT would be a boring game. Just accept the fact that AC is perfectly fine for a lvl 35 group. You just have to put a little effort into doing it but then it is a perfectly fine dungeon. And no explorable is not supposed to be starter. It is supposed to be a “hard” dungeon. Hard as in use your brain, use your communicative skills and some patience.

Thanks for the live stream. I’ve worked harder to succeed in some Lyssa events than it seems y’all had to in at least some of the encounters. The experiment proved what I expected it to prove, that skill trumps gear. I’ll take skilled players who don’t know their class that well over players who’ve played one class to 80 but mostly just stand in one place.

That said, I still think there should be hard and easy mode dungeons, with hard tuned up a bit from baseline and easy tuned down a bit. Why? The more a game offers to a broader range of player demographics, the better it is for the game.

Maestro.5376:

Since there’s all this kittening and whining about having a Guardian in our group, I might as well ask you to switch out for your Necro next time.

Will play around with both my thief and necro and see which one I feel more comfortable with.

From my own experience, the Necro was the 2nd char I tried, and I just couldn’t get into the play style. Will give it some time and see.

But no prob shelving the guardian.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Thanks for the live stream. I’ve worked harder to succeed in some Lyssa events than it seems y’all had to in at least some of the encounters. The experiment proved what I expected it to prove, that skill trumps gear. I’ll take skilled players who don’t know their class that well over players who’ve played one class to 80 but mostly just stand in one place.

That said, I still think there should be hard and easy mode dungeons, with hard tuned up a bit from baseline and easy tuned down a bit. Why? The more a game offers to a broader range of player demographics, the better it is for the game.

The problem is how do players obtain that skill level. The problem with AC now is that there are so many mechanics that are not forgiving in the slightest. It makes learning the skills needed for dungeons a huge exercise in frustration. Didn’t know the traps after spider queen 2 hit you? dead! Didn’t know spider queens poison kills you in a few seconds? dead. Didn’t know about the burrows spawning tons of gravelings? dead. Didn’t know flamethrowers kill you super quick? dead. Didn’t know the boss stacks confusion on you? dead. Didn’t know you couldn’t avoid the rockfalls? dead. The list goes on and on.

Everyone is approaching it with prior knowledge and experience. This video does answer the question of if a level 35 group is able to complete the dungeon(although they did it in all masterworks if I read correctly which any new 35 is unlikely to have), but it does not answer if a group of new level 35’s can reasonably complete the dungeon. People forget when the game released the truckload of deaths that came with learning the original AC, even then it was overtuned for new lvl 35’s and that’s why most didn’t run it and those that did came back with horror stories. It took people learning the dungeon teaching others to do it and those in turn teaching more. Only then did AC become easy, but learning it certainly took more than a few deaths.

If they want to make dungeons difficult that’s fine, but you need a learning curve so it doesn’t feel like you’re smashing your head against the wall. They also need to figure out their risk vs reward because I know I certainly don’t do dungeons because of the time it takes to get a decent reward.

Hey I just want to thank the group that did the run and the people that supported them. I tried to post a thread from a new players perspective and I think I did it with the wrong intentions.

I think I actually expected to enlighten a few people as to how a new player actually feels doing these runs, I described my experiences and let people know that it might take a few wipes, but stick to it, and with a group going in with the right attitude and the right expectations you’ll do just fine and you’ll even have fun doing it! _.

For my trouble I was basically just called a liar and a troll, so thank you for going a step further and showing it being done. You may not be new players per se but some of you were new to your class, and you also did it with out a wipe.

I also want to make it known that I would love to be involved in a future run, or just a normal unfilmed run if any of you guys are doing it.

You see, I think my experience in guild wars has been great so far is because I was lucky enough in the groups that I did get that people will willing to teach and willing to rez and willing to wipe if need be.

I say lucky because the forums would have you believe that this doesn’t really exist in game. Well I would like to take out this element of ‘luck’ by actively surrounding myself with like minding people to play with.

So to Meastro, and to all those involved in this video, here is an open invitation from a GW2 noob, invite me on some runs and maybe even add some legitimacy to them that way by inviting a real noob!

I’m on the Tarnished Coast server, my highest character is a level 70 Mesmer named Rekuta. No obligation but I would be very excited to hear from any of you in game.

CryxTryx.9208:

Hey I just want to thank the group that did the run and the people that supported them. I tried to post a thread from a new players perspective and I think I did it with the wrong intentions.

I think I actually expected to enlighten a few people as to how a new player actually feels doing these runs, I described my experiences and let people know that it might take a few wipes, but stick to it, and with a group going in with the right attitude and the right expectations you’ll do just fine and you’ll even have fun doing it! _.

For my trouble I was basically just called a liar and a troll, so thank you for going a step further and showing it being done. You may not be new players per se but some of you were new to your class, and you also did it with out a wipe.

I also want to make it known that I would love to be involved in a future run, or just a normal unfilmed run if any of you guys are doing it.

You see, I think my experience in guild wars has been great so far is because I was lucky enough in the groups that I did get that people will willing to teach and willing to rez and willing to wipe if need be.

I say lucky because the forums would have you believe that this doesn’t really exist in game. Well I would like to take out this element of ‘luck’ by actively surrounding myself with like minding people to play with.

So to Meastro, and to all those involved in this video, here is an open invitation from a GW2 noob, invite me on some runs and maybe even add some legitimacy to them that way by inviting a real noob!

I’m on the Tarnished Coast server, my highest character is a level 70 Mesmer named Rekuta. No obligation but I would be very excited to hear from any of you in game.

Cool with me, I believe I’m doing some AC tonight.

@ Distaste:

With your reasoning, one could also say, “You don’t know that car will hurt going at 50 mph without stepping in front of it.”

Seriously though, it will take lots of dying from a new players end. I remember not being able to dodge kholer, failing to survive even the burrows, and get crushed by Rumblus’s rocks. Most new players, who want a decent challenge, or want to become better, will practice it. They will not quit and say, “Wwah, too hard, bye” like many of the forum goers suggest.

Distaste.4801:

The problem is how do players obtain that skill level. The problem with AC now is that there are so many mechanics that are not forgiving in the slightest. It makes learning the skills needed for dungeons a huge exercise in frustration. Didn’t know the traps after spider queen 2 hit you? dead! Didn’t know spider queens poison kills you in a few seconds? dead. Didn’t know about the burrows spawning tons of gravelings? dead. Didn’t know flamethrowers kill you super quick? dead. Didn’t know the boss stacks confusion on you? dead. Didn’t know you couldn’t avoid the rockfalls? dead. The list goes on and on.

Everyone is approaching it with prior knowledge and experience. This video does answer the question of if a level 35 group is able to complete the dungeon(although they did it in all masterworks if I read correctly which any new 35 is unlikely to have), but it does not answer if a group of new level 35’s can reasonably complete the dungeon. People forget when the game released the truckload of deaths that came with learning the original AC, even then it was overtuned for new lvl 35’s and that’s why most didn’t run it and those that did came back with horror stories. It took people learning the dungeon teaching others to do it and those in turn teaching more. Only then did AC become easy, but learning it certainly took more than a few deaths.

If they want to make dungeons difficult that’s fine, but you need a learning curve so it doesn’t feel like you’re smashing your head against the wall. They also need to figure out their risk vs reward because I know I certainly don’t do dungeons because of the time it takes to get a decent reward.

So let me address your issues in point. Dungeon mechanics are often very do-or-die. The reason for this is because it’s very difficult to build mechanics in with a learning curve, but still punishing for veteran players if they make mistakes. The constraint is simply too limiting, and it takes away a lot of what you can do, which reduces variety and flavor of the dungeon you’re designing.

With the release of every single new dungeon, there will always be the world firsts, the group of players that venture fearlessly into unknown territory without knowing what comes next. And I will guarantee you that those players likely died over and over and over again before they learned what the dungeon mechanics were and could complete it successfully. AC was the same way when it came out, same with CoE before people learned how to deal with Subject Alpha, same with every other dungeon. There’s a wealth of knowledge out there regarding each of the dungeons and their pitfalls, and really, at this point, if you want to experience a dungeon “fresh” without preknowledge, fine, but don’t complain if the traps/red circles/boss mechanics get you because you were asking for it by not doing your homework. People learn by doing. If you failed once, then you go back with the knowledge you gained and do it again.

If you want an example of a dungeon that was extremely difficult even with people that knew ALL the mechanics, look at AC Ex before release, where the Spider Queen’s poison pools did around 3k per tick.

If you don’t want to put in the work to learning a new dungeon when it comes out, I’m sure by a month later the wiki will have all the information on the traps and pitfalls.

Distaste.4801:

(although they did it in all masterworks if I read correctly which any new 35 is unlikely to have)

I’ll argue against this.

My gear in that run was about 75% karma with 3 pieces obtained through the trading post, namely the boots, the bow and the sigil in the bow. Also, I only completed 2 areas as I lvled the character for the transmutation stones and then focused only on doing higher level hearts and skillpoint challenges.

You can’t see but the warrior still has 14k karma after buying gear upgrades from the vendors when I saw potential in the pieces. Sometimes I’d even waste karma on equipment that I never even used because I’d find something better. No dailies completed for the jugs or anything.

A character that is low level with minimal funds I would suggest using karma to get gear. There’s no reason not to.

CryxTryx.9208:

Hey I just want to thank the group that did the run and the people that supported them. I tried to post a thread from a new players perspective and I think I did it with the wrong intentions.

I think I actually expected to enlighten a few people as to how a new player actually feels doing these runs, I described my experiences and let people know that it might take a few wipes, but stick to it, and with a group going in with the right attitude and the right expectations you’ll do just fine and you’ll even have fun doing it! _.

For my trouble I was basically just called a liar and a troll, so thank you for going a step further and showing it being done. You may not be new players per se but some of you were new to your class, and you also did it with out a wipe.

I also want to make it known that I would love to be involved in a future run, or just a normal unfilmed run if any of you guys are doing it.

You see, I think my experience in guild wars has been great so far is because I was lucky enough in the groups that I did get that people will willing to teach and willing to rez and willing to wipe if need be.

I say lucky because the forums would have you believe that this doesn’t really exist in game. Well I would like to take out this element of ‘luck’ by actively surrounding myself with like minding people to play with.

So to Meastro, and to all those involved in this video, here is an open invitation from a GW2 noob, invite me on some runs and maybe even add some legitimacy to them that way by inviting a real noob!

I’m on the Tarnished Coast server, my highest character is a level 70 Mesmer named Rekuta. No obligation but I would be very excited to hear from any of you in game.

Added you. Feel free to add me. I’m on Tarnished Coast too.

Seriously, this looks like more a paid advertisement LOL.

Oh it was great, oh it went so smooth, oh I made new friends.

The fact is, even though I still like to run AC it is immensely harder to find a group now.

No matter how many posts there are here saying how good the new AC is gw2lfg.com proves the opposite.

Morpheus.6401:

Seriously, this looks like more a paid advertisement LOL.

Oh it was great, oh it went so smooth, oh I made new friends.

The fact is, even though I still like to run AC it is immensely harder to find a group now.

No matter how many posts there are here saying how good the new AC is gw2lfg.com proves the opposite.

The decrease in LFG entries is not a demonstration of quality of the new AC, but more a demonstration of how resistant people are to change, especially a slight increase in difficulty.

Maestro.5376:

Morpheus.6401:

Seriously, this looks like more a paid advertisement LOL.

Oh it was great, oh it went so smooth, oh I made new friends.

The fact is, even though I still like to run AC it is immensely harder to find a group now.

No matter how many posts there are here saying how good the new AC is gw2lfg.com proves the opposite.

The decrease in LFG entries is not a demonstration of quality of the new AC, but more a demonstration of how resistant people are to change, especially a slight increase in difficulty.

I would say a ‘shift in difficulty’ instead. The bosses tend to have lower HP meaning you spend less time mindlessly beating on them but yeah, it’s harder to mindlessly beat on them too. It’s a give and take.

Leo G.4501:

Maestro.5376:

Morpheus.6401:

Seriously, this looks like more a paid advertisement LOL.

Oh it was great, oh it went so smooth, oh I made new friends.

The fact is, even though I still like to run AC it is immensely harder to find a group now.

No matter how many posts there are here saying how good the new AC is gw2lfg.com proves the opposite.

The decrease in LFG entries is not a demonstration of quality of the new AC, but more a demonstration of how resistant people are to change, especially a slight increase in difficulty.

I would say a ‘shift in difficulty’ instead. The bosses tend to have lower HP meaning you spend less time mindlessly beating on them but yeah, it’s harder to mindlessly beat on them too. It’s a give and take.

It’s a demonstration that most ppl didn’t like the changes. And I suppose we are playing to enjoy and have fun aren’t we? So Anet just took away something most ppl use to like and have fun.
Lousy job if you ask me.

Morpheus.6401:

Leo G.4501:

Maestro.5376:

Morpheus.6401:

Seriously, this looks like more a paid advertisement LOL.

Oh it was great, oh it went so smooth, oh I made new friends.

The fact is, even though I still like to run AC it is immensely harder to find a group now.

No matter how many posts there are here saying how good the new AC is gw2lfg.com proves the opposite.

The decrease in LFG entries is not a demonstration of quality of the new AC, but more a demonstration of how resistant people are to change, especially a slight increase in difficulty.

I would say a ‘shift in difficulty’ instead. The bosses tend to have lower HP meaning you spend less time mindlessly beating on them but yeah, it’s harder to mindlessly beat on them too. It’s a give and take.

It’s a demonstration that most ppl didn’t like the changes. And I suppose we are playing to enjoy and have fun aren’t we? So Anet just took away something most ppl use to like and have fun.
Lousy job if you ask me.

Maybe if those people admit they just want to mindlessly beat on things that can’t fight back, perhaps. They’d still have to prove they deserve a reward for such actions though.

Leo G.4501:

Morpheus.6401:

Leo G.4501:

Maestro.5376:

Morpheus.6401:

Seriously, this looks like more a paid advertisement LOL.

Oh it was great, oh it went so smooth, oh I made new friends.

The fact is, even though I still like to run AC it is immensely harder to find a group now.

No matter how many posts there are here saying how good the new AC is gw2lfg.com proves the opposite.

The decrease in LFG entries is not a demonstration of quality of the new AC, but more a demonstration of how resistant people are to change, especially a slight increase in difficulty.

I would say a ‘shift in difficulty’ instead. The bosses tend to have lower HP meaning you spend less time mindlessly beating on them but yeah, it’s harder to mindlessly beat on them too. It’s a give and take.

It’s a demonstration that most ppl didn’t like the changes. And I suppose we are playing to enjoy and have fun aren’t we? So Anet just took away something most ppl use to like and have fun.
Lousy job if you ask me.

Maybe if those people admit they just want to mindlessly beat on things that can’t fight back, perhaps. They’d still have to prove they deserve a reward for such actions though.

That’s not an accurate representation of the old AC. Old AC became easy because people learned it, not because the mobs were not fighting. Nor could it be done mindlessly — well except maybe for Ghost Eater. Although I remember one run having to revive the same guardian several times in the Ghost Eater fight. Your message will come though clearer if you do not let your passion for dungeons get in the way of your objectivity.

I would like to see you (Leo G.4501) mindlessly beat the old Kholer, not dodging wires and spin, or mindlessly beat howler king not dodging his breath, or mindlessly beat colossus not dodging breath and the stones, or the ascalonians on p2 …
Spider Queen was too easy? Yes it was. The hole dungeon was quite easy for experienced players, so what? What is the problem on having the first dungeon easier? So new players can learn and you don’t see that “experienced players only” on the posts on gw2lfg.com.
There are other harder dungeons to run, you want a challenge, go run arah p4 and let others have fun on the easier stuff.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Old AC became easy because people learned it

This has been my case in point since the whining about the new AC on the forums. Old AC wasn’t easy for most groups at first, either. It’s just because people learned it. And it will end up exactly the same for the new AC, just give it some time.

IndigoSundown.5419:

That’s not an accurate representation of the old AC. Old AC became easy because people learned it, not because the mobs were not fighting. Nor could it be done mindlessly — well except maybe for Ghost Eater. Although I remember one run having to revive the same guardian several times in the Ghost Eater fight. Your message will come though clearer if you do not let your passion for dungeons get in the way of your objectivity.

AlietteFaye put’s it pretty well. The reason it’s ‘hard’ now is because it’s unfamiliar (bugs aside). It will get easier as we proceed to hammer though it again and again like before.

Morpheus.6401:

I would like to see you (Leo G.4501) mindlessly beat the old Kholer, not dodging wires and spin,

I’ve seen guardians do it before. I think they used protection boon to do it. I’ve beaten old Kholer before solo but it wasn’t easy.

But right now? You can eat Kholer’s pull+spin without dying. Not only did they make his kill-shot weaker, they reduced his health. So if someone with protection and condition removal could eat his spin before, they can do it now much easier.

or mindlessly beat howler king not dodging his breath,

Dodging once is pretty easy. Especially if you were in melee, you could just dodge through him.

or mindlessly beat colossus not dodging breath and the stones,

And he did nothing while the rocks fell so hitting while moving…did you notice in that video, hitting while moving is standard fighting. Doing that just helps you survive longer so basically using standard fighting tactics to beat the boss’ signature attack.

Anyway, I’m not arguing about if the dungeon should be ‘easy’ or ‘hard’ but the bosses shouldn’t be as cake as they were. It’s a shame when the hardest part about AC isn’t any of the main bosses but were burrows and ghosts that gang up on you. If you can’t see that they just made the bosses the proper challenge they were suppose to be to begin with, then I don’t know what to tell you.

The bosses pose a real threat unlike before, when once you learned what they do, they were no threat at all.

And again, I have no problem with having tutorial mini-dungeons in this game. But not tutorial dungeons that also award end-game rewards. Why? Because people will then farm the kitten out of them and do nothing else (see: CoF). There’s lots of potential for mini-dungeons in this game and that’s where I feel the learning should be because those rewards can be controlled without stifling those seeking those end-game rewards. Basically, I think if you want to farm something there should be work involved. Doing easy kitten dungeons is hardly work.

Morpheus.6401:

I would like to see you (Leo G.4501) mindlessly beat the old Kholer, not dodging wires and spin, or mindlessly beat howler king not dodging his breath, or mindlessly beat colossus not dodging breath and the stones, or the ascalonians on p2 …
Spider Queen was too easy? Yes it was. The hole dungeon was quite easy for experienced players, so what? What is the problem on having the first dungeon easier? So new players can learn and you don’t see that “experienced players only” on the posts on gw2lfg.com.
There are other harder dungeons to run, you want a challenge, go run arah p4 and let others have fun on the easier stuff.

Oh no no no, you’re missing the point here. Uber awesome players like Leo and Maestro want ALL 9 dungeons to be “challenging” to the point where only 2 groups out of 10 can finish them. So much fun. You can’t beat AC? Well perhaps you should try another dungeon… before Anet makes those harder too.

Liquid Storm.8097:

Oh no no no, you’re missing the point here. Uber awesome players like Leo and Maestro want ALL 9 dungeons to be “challenging” to the point where only 2 groups out of 10 can finish them. So much fun. You can’t beat AC? Well perhaps you should try another dungeon… before Anet makes those harder too.

Well what exactly do the ‘not Uber awesome players’ want?

Do they want to get a 10sec warning when to dodge? A slap on the wrist if they don’t?

Do they think they should be able to beat a path in 10min and the whole dungeon in less than an hour?

What experience exactly do you want? The only part I’m defending is dungeons should be challenging. Dungeons that aren’t should be looked at. Why should dungeons be easy or have a scale so newbies can hop in on the big guns and not be put on the spot?

If it’s challenging, why should they not be killed? If they aren’t downed and killed, does it ever pose a threat?

What exactly are you opposed to? Because I’m not sure why you’re focusing on me or on the ones defending the current implementation of the dungeons. It’s like you’re complaining dungeons shouldn’t be difficult or that how the instance is now is completely unfeasible to comprehend by a new player.

So my question to you guys is, how would you change things?

If you say ‘change it back to old AC’, then I guess I’m done here. Basically amounts to ‘the bosses shouldn’t pose a threat’.

Morpheus.6401:

Morpheus.6401:

Seriously, this looks like more a paid advertisement LOL.

Oh it was great, oh it went so smooth, oh I made new friends.

This was my first post, it was a joke. But then I started to think … How many times you joined a random group for AC and there was only lvl 35 players? For me NEVER! And I ran that dungeon hundreds of times, not once I had all 35’s on a group. And all different classes! Are you kidding me?! No way! If they had said it was a test or something ok, but they said it was a PUG. NO WAY!

Other thing, the Ele girl, she was lvl 35 but had all staff skills locked, how come? Possible but not probable. And still she knew perfectly how to use each and every staff skills. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! LOL

And they all knew, despite being lvl 35, exactly what to do in every step of the way. That ok, could all be alts of very experienced players, because the Ele just discovered the area when she got in the dungeon so she had never been there before (not on that char). But … After the other aspects I noticed I have to say, LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS FIXED GUYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too much coincidence, a lvl 35 PUG right after the changes, not skipping anything, the perfect run for Anet.

HAHAHA IT’S A TRAP!

Shame on you

Now I have to tell everyone about this.

Your tinfoil hat is showing.

The elementalist leveled to 35 by crafting, and in no way made ‘perfect’ use out of ALL of the staff skills. Mainly stayed in fire or water attunement, rarely dabbled in air, and almost never used earth at all.

And they skipped clearing most of the groups for the scepter pieces event which throws your claim of not skipping anything out the window. . If you had actually watched the video, you’d know this.

Haha not clearing all mobs on scepter pieces I don’t even consider that skipping. I think nobody has ever killed all mobs in that room.

And the girl, she lvled crafting and had never used a staff before, so she had never used the char for fighting before, but still she did really good huh.

What about the lvl 35 PUG, how many times you joined one for AC? Win the lottery is more probable than that.

Leo G.4501:

Well what exactly do the ‘not Uber awesome players’ want?

We’ve already given our suggestions 100 times, I’m not gonna make a 101st post about it.

Leo G.4501:

What experience exactly do you want? The only part I’m defending is dungeons should be challenging. Dungeons that aren’t should be looked at. Why should dungeons be easy or have a scale so newbies can hop in on the big guns and not be put on the spot?

If it’s challenging, why should they not be killed? If they aren’t downed and killed, does it ever pose a threat?

Challenge and getting wiped 50 times is not the same. Challenge is also not constantly running around and dodging OP opponents who can kill you in just a matter of seconds. On another note, I’ve already stated that there are 9 dungeons in the game. If YOU want “challenge”, go do harder ones like Arah or CoF, spend hours and hours trying to get through a boss and then post a bragging video on YouTube for all I care. But seeing as how every dungeon needs to be structured in such a way that you have to get wiped at least 10 times to get through on your first try is stupid, and if you’re defending that kind of approach, you’re being egoistic. Period.

Leo G.4501:

So my question to you guys is, how would you change things?

See comment 1.

Leo G.4501:

If you say ‘change it back to old AC’, then I guess I’m done here. Basically amounts to ‘the bosses shouldn’t pose a threat’.

Yeah and when you’ll learn everything there is to learn about AC and start spamming how easy it is, you’ll expect Anet to make it even harder. How is this not favouring elitism?

Morpheus.6401:

Haha not clearing all mobs on scepter pieces I don’t even consider that skipping. I think nobody has ever killed all mobs in that room.
And the girl, she lvled crafting and had never used a staff before, so she had never used the char for fighting before, but still she did really good huh.
What about the lvl 35 PUG, how many times you joined one for AC? Win the lottery is more probable than that.

Why is that not skipping? They’re skipping groups of mobs that they’d otherwise have to kill in order to complete the dungeon, and I know that people killed all of those enemies before they figured out how to evade everything to cherrypick the fragments. I was there. Stop moving the goalposts.

Never having used the staff before doesn’t mean that they had absolutely no idea how the elementalist’s staff functioned on a fundamental level. Doesn’t exactly take a whole lot of effort to figure out how each skill works on a basic level just by reading the description and using it once or twice while unlocking the skills, though the most optimal usage comes with experience.

Honestly, haven’t been in a PuG of at-level characters since launch because people starting farming tokens for the weapon skins on their level 80 characters.

But that isn’t even the point of this video. It was to demonstrate that a group of level 35 characters with level-appropriate equipment that is extremely easy to obtain even for new players can complete the dungeon in it’s revamped state, because the claim was that it wasn’t possible.

Morpheus.6401:

Haha not clearing all mobs on scepter pieces I don’t even consider that skipping. I think nobody has ever killed all mobs in that room.

And the girl, she lvled crafting and had never used a staff before, so she had never used the char for fighting before, but still she did really good huh.

What about the lvl 35 PUG, how many times you joined one for AC? Win the lottery is more probable than that.

Well you know you can mouse over skills to read what they actually do. That helps a lot if you’re playing a new class and if you are already a pretty good player it won’t be that difficult to get suited to a new class. You will make minor mistakes but you will be able to remember the position of the skills more easily.
Furthermore they wanted to prove that AC was doable with a standard lvl 35 character. They were a PUG as in they met on the forums but they never said that they were inexperienced players in guild wars.

Before you shout “lies” and use way too many exclamation mark you should read the whole thread.

EDIT: Basically what Hobocop said – he was just faster. :’(

It was a PuG in the sense that it was five random people who had never played with each other before forming a group towards a common cause. Isn’t…that what a PuG is? You just pick up whoever happened to be interested at the time.

Morpheus.6401:

OK so it was not a PUG, if they met before and planed to prove right?

That was what made me think, I ran that dungeon hundreds of times and never got in a random group with all lvl 35 players, never.

I believe you’ve never been in a level 35 only group because most of the others were above or even 80. The OP and his group stated that 80 doesn’t mean a huge difference in stats but it may mean that the 80 character should have a basic knowledge of the game. So the fact that you complain that you never had a 35 PUG is somewhat equal with the fact that you had it easier in your runs? I’m a little confused.

I’m not complaining just saying, it was not a PUG. They planed the whole thing before.

Last time I checked every dungeon merchant was selling lvl 80 exotics. Maybe dungeons should present bigger challenge than moas in open world?

Yes they planned to do this dungeon at the minimum level with gear that every PUG can have. That was planning. They never planned the run itself. They had to plan certain things otherwise people would complain about gear above average and who knows what.

Maestro.5376:

Morpheus.6401:

Seriously, this looks like more a paid advertisement LOL.

Oh it was great, oh it went so smooth, oh I made new friends.

The fact is, even though I still like to run AC it is immensely harder to find a group now.

No matter how many posts there are here saying how good the new AC is gw2lfg.com proves the opposite.

The decrease in LFG entries is not a demonstration of quality of the new AC, but more a demonstration of how resistant people are to change, especially a slight increase in difficulty.

More likely because it’s not easy farming anymore so they moved on to a dungeon that is.

Liquid Storm.8097:

Challenge and getting wiped 50 times is not the same. Challenge is also not constantly running around and dodging OP opponents who can kill you in just a matter of seconds. On another note, I’ve already stated that there are 9 dungeons in the game. If YOU want “challenge”, go do harder ones like Arah or CoF, spend hours and hours trying to get through a boss and then post a bragging video on YouTube for all I care. But seeing as how every dungeon needs to be structured in such a way that you have to get wiped at least 10 times to get through on your first try is stupid, and if you’re defending that kind of approach, you’re being egoistic. Period.

Can someone describe a ‘challenging’ fight that cannot cause a wipe after a few fails?

I’m sure it exists but I’m having trouble imagining it. Perhaps old Kholer? He hasn’t changed much from the old though, just more variables and his spin isn’t quite as deadly.

Yeah and when you’ll learn everything there is to learn about AC and start spamming how easy it is, you’ll expect Anet to make it even harder. How is this not favouring elitism?

The difference being, there are mechanics in the fight not easily ignored. For instance, you can’t just put weakness on the spider queen and have her poison pools do practically nothing (or even without the weakness). Now you have to stay out of them. They aren’t easily ignored. It won’t ever be ‘easy’ in the sense that you’d be able to just stand there and beat on her until she’s dead like before. If she lays down those pools you’d better watch out. If she immobilizes you, not only are you stuck but likely taking heavy damage.

And I find it funny people think the new gravelings are tougher. They’re so much easier to kill and their knockback isn’t near-instant death like the Stalker’s knockdown used to be. Not only that but the AoE knockback is so telegraphed, new players can actually tell what hit them vs being chewed up by a Stalker that isn’t even facing you.

You think it’s head but really, it’s just different. You haven’t adjusted to the changes…oh, and the bosses actually pose a threat so…

Teevell.1684:

Maestro.5376:

Morpheus.6401:

Seriously, this looks like more a paid advertisement LOL.

Oh it was great, oh it went so smooth, oh I made new friends.

The fact is, even though I still like to run AC it is immensely harder to find a group now.

No matter how many posts there are here saying how good the new AC is gw2lfg.com proves the opposite.

The decrease in LFG entries is not a demonstration of quality of the new AC, but more a demonstration of how resistant people are to change, especially a slight increase in difficulty.

More likely because it’s not easy farming anymore so they moved on to a dungeon that is.

Basically, yeah.

I’ve heard people doing AC runs pretty quick, around 15-20mins a run on part 1 or 3. Those farmers probably either don’t want to put in the effort to relearn AC or likely just want their farming to be as little effort as possible.