Guild Wars 2

First of all let me say that i LOVE it. Huge CUDOS to raid-design team

Now i’m known to curse a lot, simply because the things that i say come without any defensive speech, however, since i can’t curse here due to (“kittens”), i’ll try to adjust and keep this post as civil as i can.

That being said, i’ve played GW2 between 2012-2013, the only end content there were Fractals (for PVE-rs, dungeons were too easy, as they’re now), and WvW
Tho’ to be fair, the end content of pre-HOT gw2, was ALWAYS WvW, tons of people being on ts, or vent, or wherever VOIP was hosted, and just zerging/planning around.
Which’s kinda “cool” but gets boring as well.

Now since i’m “speaking” from personal point of view, i really HATE – Legendaries – with passion, I firmly do believe that they’re nothing more than over-glorified pieces of pixels that EVERYONE can have with given a little bit time and effort (Gold making in this game ‘s pretty much easy)
The way i see it tho’ however, we have a problem.
I firmly do believe that the people who’re constantly moaning and giving negative feedback about raids, are the people who’ve never truly tried to adjust to that particular content, those people are usually full of themselves (more than i am with this post), are at age of around 30-40, and generally perform bad when it comes to their class, and have a belief that raids should be tailored around them, and that they shouldn’t have to tailor their class-play-style accordingly.

Now that’s just “kittens”, pure and utter “kittens”
I’ve guild-lead & raid lead, in couple of MMO’s most notable one being WoW.
WoW Raids, and these raids, are VASTLY different, there’s no more “casual” raids that you can get than what we have in gw2, which’s FINE, there’s more than ENOUGH challenge for progression, and not having a “stale” content.

If any of the Anet staff is reading this, you guys again are doing AWESOME, the expansion itself is GREAT, HoT feels “ALIVE” more than original gw2 ever did, SURE it is a bit short when it comes to story-line and it COULD have been improved, but what we got is perfectly decent.

I IMPLORE you, DO NOT STOP, making raid content, its good, it’s awesome, and it actually “socializes” a bit more people as well.

Now i’d like to get a little bit of your own feedback as well.
In general my opinions, thoughts and views, and when i discuss it with people, i tend to “attack” a lot, simply because i don’t like “kittens”
But either way, i’m really trying here, and would like to hear your input on

Why is it that some of you are unsatisfied with raids, have you tried adjusting to the content? Have you tried searching for a guild, or anyone else to help you out with regarding that?
~ I guild//raidlead and have both wings on 1night farm, which really isn’t much of achievement but, if do know that EVERY single time, if someone needs any help regarding raids, YOU yourself right now that’re reading this, feel free to contact me and we’ll see what we can do.

Either way, yeah.
Why don’t “you” like raids, and please guys, explain this to me since i’ve never truly been able to grasp the idea of pixels (Legendaries) which even you could argue obtaining is for some sort of prestige, but i’ve NEVER been fascinated with people who have them, and neither are players that i know.
I would never spend huge amount of time, just to once its done have it posted in map chat/guild chat for the sake of someone saying “gratz”

On a side note, this’s just coming from personal experience, most of folks that i’ve had chance to encounter be it in pugs, or wherenot, who have legendaries, are usually folks who perform really really really bad in terms of game-play-style

So yeah, hopefully ya guys wont bash much on this post, but if ya decide to do that’s fine, there’s huge of tl;dr content here

Anyhow, give me your opinions on your view on raids, why do you like it, why ya don’t

PS: Again, HUGE HUGE MEGA GIGA huge gratz on the raid-team for constructing well designed content.

Back in 2011-2012 this game was advertised as something player-friendly and not WoW-like, and lot of people bought it because of that – ex-veterans of other MMOs who tired from eternal gear mill and grind. And now what we see? Last new fractal/permanent dungeon path was added in 2013, THREE YEARS AGO. But hey, here is new and exciting raids, with trinity, unique loot, BIS armor locked behind it, just like in WoW.
And I’m asking – what the heck is going on? I left WoW after release of Cata, I had more than enough 25 HM clears, and now this kitten is being only new content in game that was made for people who retired from raids? What?
You love raids? Fine, but don’t push them to those who already fed up with them long ago, and don’t ask why these people are angry when they getting not that this game promised to be.

Rednik.3809:

But hey, here is new and exciting raids, with trinity, unique loot, BIS armor locked behind it, just like in WoW.

I agree right with what you’re saying. 2 years ago I had to get a time machine to get my BIS ascended gear because it obviously didn’t exist before raids according to you.

Rednik.3809:

And I’m asking – what the heck is going on? I left WoW after release of Cata, I had more than enough 25 HM clears, and now this kitten is being only new content in game that was made for people who retired from raids? What?
You love raids? Fine, but don’t push them to those who already fed up with them long ago, and don’t ask why these people are angry when they getting not that this game promised to be.

Preach it. We fought hard to make this an unfufiling game devoid of challenge and we will continue to fight untill every last ounce of challenge and interesting content has been wiped from this game.

And those that like the raids, they don’t deserve to get what they want because because it’s not what I want and I deserve to be catered to for self evident reasons.

Aceofsppades.6873:

Rednik.3809:

And I’m asking – what the heck is going on? I left WoW after release of Cata, I had more than enough 25 HM clears, and now this kitten is being only new content in game that was made for people who retired from raids? What?
You love raids? Fine, but don’t push them to those who already fed up with them long ago, and don’t ask why these people are angry when they getting not that this game promised to be.

Preach it. We fought hard to make this an unfufiling game devoid of challenge and we will continue to fight untill every last ounce of challenge and interesting content has been wiped from this game.

And those that like the raids, they don’t deserve to get what they want because because it’s not what I want and I deserve to be catered to for self evident reasons.

- Thank you very much -

For me its probably the build dynamics. The variance in performance between two builds that fulfill the same roll in a raid environment can be INSANE. And area net’s way of dealing with it is to attack psuedo gimmicky mechanics to classes in order to make them relevant.

For example I main a ranger. I love the playstyle of the ranger. And especially the combat style of it. But unfortunately most of my build is decided for me in raids and high end content. We aren’t really dps builds. Were buff builds that also deal dps.

That unfortunately isn’t how I play ranger. And I am not a big fan of druid in general. Which means that quite frankly I am never going to play my favorite class in end game content. Because at this point the classes dynamics simply aren’t going to change away from being a buffer.

My other character is a reaper. Which is great. But its a power reaper. Which isn’t great. Again before raids got into full swing I fell in love with power reaper. I love the playstyle. And the way both the zerk and valk power dps builds feel amazes me. But I will never be able to play them in any form of challenging content. The hardest content I get to play them in is fractals but even THERE my condi counterpart has taken my spot.

The difference in performance and utility is just too high between the two builds. Despite the fact that the two builds serve arguably the same purpose. I have TRIED to find a raid group in three different guilds and probably 70-80 hours staring blankly at the lfg screen seeing (lf condi reaper) pop up and off every single post. I have given up.

The ONLY RAID GROUP I have gotten into since the first month of HoT came out I was invited to on accident. I had posted as a valk reaper (full ascended and propperly geared with food and oils and I had memorized the bosses mechanics by heart) and they just assumed I meant condi reaper when they invited me. I was promptly insulted and then booted.

I am sure you can understand why I personelly might not be happy with raids. Its not any fault of the raids. Or even the players that kick me. Its the class dynamics of the game that allows for two similar builds set up to fulfill identical purposes to have such a massive performance difference because one is condi and the other is power that REGARDLESS of the skill level of the weaker of the pair there is no possible way for them to overcome the difference.

To put it into perspective. I played a BM hunter in WoW. And I did progressive end game raiding in every expansion until I left near the end of MoP when I started doing GW2 full time. BM wasn’t the meta build for hunters for quite a lot of that time. But I was able to top dps charts because I new the mechanics of my build so well that I knew exactly how to use every cooldown properly because I had focused on honing that one playstyle.

That isn’t possible in GW2. Not just because we don’t have dps meters to prove (Hey I really CAN do competitive dps with you) but because even if we did with the games combat system dealing near the potential maximum dps for a class is incredibly simple. So there actually is no variance for skill level except how well you didnt stand in the fire.

So a super skilled power reaper has no chance of out performing a medium skilled condi reaper. Just like a Well played dps only ranger can never make up for the dps loss of a druid running group buffs.

It makes any incentive for me to improve enough to prove myself fly out the window. As the only thing that matters past a certain level is what build your running.

Thats why I am not happy with raiding in gw2. Because it rubs the flaws in our games system in my face as I watch my friends go through content I probably will never get to enjoy myeslf despite being willing to commit hour after hour to it. Because i don’t want to compromise what makes the game fun for me in the first place.

Aceofsppades.6873:

I agree right with what you’re saying. 2 years ago I had to get a time machine to get my BIS ascended gear because it obviously didn’t exist before raids according to you.

Ascended gear can be crafted and acquired by a lots of ways. Name other way to get legendary armor except raids.

Preach it. We fought hard to make this an unfufiling game devoid of challenge and we will continue to fight untill every last ounce of challenge and interesting content has been wiped from this game.

And those that like the raids, they don’t deserve to get what they want because because it’s not what I want and I deserve to be catered to for self evident reasons.

Oh, so you are playing it for challenge? Then I guess you will agree that raids must be stripped from legendary armor and unique stat items, because you want only challenge, right?

Shadelang.3012:

For me its probably the build dynamics. The variance in performance between two builds that fulfill the same roll in a raid environment can be INSANE. And area net’s way of dealing with it is to attack psuedo gimmicky mechanics to classes in order to make them relevant.

For example I main a ranger. I love the playstyle of the ranger. And especially the combat style of it. But unfortunately most of my build is decided for me in raids and high end content. We aren’t really dps builds. Were buff builds that also deal dps.

That unfortunately isn’t how I play ranger. And I am not a big fan of druid in general. Which means that quite frankly I am never going to play my favorite class in end game content. Because at this point the classes dynamics simply aren’t going to change away from being a buffer.

My other character is a reaper. Which is great. But its a power reaper. Which isn’t great. Again before raids got into full swing I fell in love with power reaper. I love the playstyle. And the way both the zerk and valk power dps builds feel amazes me. But I will never be able to play them in any form of challenging content. The hardest content I get to play them in is fractals but even THERE my condi counterpart has taken my spot.

The difference in performance and utility is just too high between the two builds. Despite the fact that the two builds serve arguably the same purpose. I have TRIED to find a raid group in three different guilds and probably 70-80 hours staring blankly at the lfg screen seeing (lf condi reaper) pop up and off every single post. I have given up.

The ONLY RAID GROUP I have gotten into since the first month of HoT came out I was invited to on accident. I had posted as a valk reaper (full ascended and propperly geared with food and oils and I had memorized the bosses mechanics by heart) and they just assumed I meant condi reaper when they invited me. I was promptly insulted and then booted.

I am sure you can understand why I personelly might not be happy with raids. Its not any fault of the raids. Or even the players that kick me. Its the class dynamics of the game that allows for two similar builds set up to fulfill identical purposes to have such a massive performance difference because one is condi and the other is power that REGARDLESS of the skill level of the weaker of the pair there is no possible way for them to overcome the difference.

To put it into perspective. I played a BM hunter in WoW. And I did progressive end game raiding in every expansion until I left near the end of MoP when I started doing GW2 full time. BM wasn’t the meta build for hunters for quite a lot of that time. But I was able to top dps charts because I new the mechanics of my build so well that I knew exactly how to use every cooldown properly because I had focused on honing that one playstyle.

That isn’t possible in GW2. Not just because we don’t have dps meters to prove (Hey I really CAN do competitive dps with you) but because even if we did with the games combat system dealing near the potential maximum dps for a class is incredibly simple. So there actually is no variance for skill level except how well you didnt stand in the fire.

So a super skilled power reaper has no chance of out performing a medium skilled condi reaper. Just like a Well played dps only ranger can never make up for the dps loss of a druid running group buffs.

It makes any incentive for me to improve enough to prove myself fly out the window. As the only thing that matters past a certain level is what build your running.

Thats why I am not happy with raiding in gw2. Because it rubs the flaws in our games system in my face as I watch my friends go through content I probably will never get to enjoy myeslf despite being willing to commit hour after hour to it. Because i don’t want to compromise what makes the game fun for me in the first place.

Mate, i apologize but the way i know, BM hunters weren’t underpowered at all throughout MOP, they were OP as kitten in PvP and were utilized in PvE as well,
With all due respect, MoP was a joke expansion in a term of “is this content hard”, i’ve zerged ALL HC runs and leveled to 90 in under a month as a SP/Disci

And raiding in WoW ‘s vastly different to raiding in here, due to each class can somehow be utilized in raid enviroment, there’s always a trade off/on.
- Every class’s “hooned-tailored” and it gives you an ilussion of a choice, while every single thing can be used correctly.

GW2’s a bit different with that, we don’t have the option of each class-sub-genre having it’s benifets, but i firmly do believe it’s simply because raids are a new thing to gw2

To any WoW Players, i’ll let you kittenING KNOW that in vanila, each class was the same as class in gw2, and you only used a spell or two, during whole 40man encounter, that did not change until TBC
so give it time.

BTW, THANK YOU for this lengthy response, and for your concern about raiding.

The only thing that i have to say to that is that i personally don’t agree with you.

I like tailoring classes for raids, because not everything can be awesome at everything, it simply doesn’t work.

@Sillytune I played in the other expansions two man. Its why I said it how I did. I played all they way till MOP*. Including lich king when beast mastery hunters were considered jokes outside of BGs. I still topped dps meters even against top level players there.

Its true that its different than in GW2. I was only making an example based on my past experiences. Not a direct comparison by any means.

That illusion of choice is part of what annoys me. This game lies to you from the get go. Gets you to love a playstyle. Learn it. Master it. And when you get to the content that you have worked so hard to be able to play. It tells you that everything you did was completely worthless.

As for giving it time. How many expansions should I wait do you wonder? Do you REALLY think dps ranger is ever gonna out perform buff applying rangers in group environments? Not without those buffs being gutted first. Its built into the class too deeply now.

And im not gonna ask anet to butcher the rest of the ranger class so I can feel important there.

Its the same thing with condi reaper vs power reaper. Unless power reaper gets heavy buffs. Or condi reaper gets heavy nerfs it probably isn’t going to change. And again. Im not gonna ask anet to break someone elses playstyle to fit my needs. Or WORSE. Put players that love condi reaper to death and don’t want to play power reaper in the same position I am in now.

Thats why I gave up. Because no matter who wins here someone has to lose. If it isn’t those of us that don’t enjoy the current gameplay then itl be someone else that won’t enjoy our gameplay. So theres no point just pushing the misery onto other people.

“Shrug” Im never going to see gorseval. And im never going to see the bosses of SP or the new raid thats about to release.

Simply because there probably wont be any room for me.

And im okay with that. My post was only to awnser your question. Does it suck? Yeah. And it probably means my life span in this game won’t be for too much longer unless other things continue to catch my attention. But that isn’t the raids fault or the players fault or even anets fault. Its just how the dice rolled.

Edit: Bah realised after I posted that it made it sound like I was playing the martyr card. Not gonna edit it because this is still how I feel but wanted to say that wasn’t what I was going for. Just an accurate as possible portrayal of my feelings on the subject.

Shadelang.3012:

@Sillytune I played in the other expansions two man. Its why I said it how I did. I played all they way till MOP*. Including lich king when beast mastery hunters were considered jokes outside of BGs. I still topped dps meters even against top level players there.

Its true that its different than in GW2. I was only making an example based on my past experiences. Not a direct comparison by any means.

That illusion of choice is part of what annoys me. This game lies to you from the get go. Gets you to love a playstyle. Learn it. Master it. And when you get to the content that you have worked so hard to be able to play. It tells you that everything you did was completely worthless.

As for giving it time. How many expansions should I wait do you wonder? Do you REALLY think dps ranger is ever gonna out perform buff applying rangers in group environments? Not without those buffs being gutted first. Its built into the class too deeply now.

And im not gonna ask anet to butcher the rest of the ranger class so I can feel important there.

Its the same thing with condi reaper vs power reaper. Unless power reaper gets heavy buffs. Or condi reaper gets heavy nerfs it probably isn’t going to change. And again. Im not gonna ask anet to break someone elses playstyle to fit my needs. Or WORSE. Put players that love condi reaper to death and don’t want to play power reaper in the same position I am in now.

Thats why I gave up. Because no matter who wins here someone has to lose. If it isn’t those of us that don’t enjoy the current gameplay then itl be someone else that won’t enjoy our gameplay. So theres no point just pushing the misery onto other people.

“Shrug” Im never going to see gorseval. And im never going to see the bosses of SP or the new raid thats about to release.

Simply because there probably wont be any room for me.

And im okay with that. My post was only to awnser your question. Does it suck? Yeah. And it probably means my life span in this game won’t be for too much longer unless other things continue to catch my attention. But that isn’t the raids fault or the players fault or even anets fault. Its just how the dice rolled.

Edit: Bah realised after I posted that it made it sound like I was playing the martyr card. Not gonna edit it because this is still how I feel but wanted to say that wasn’t what I was going for. Just an accurate as possible portrayal of my feelings on the subject.

Nah again, you’re doing fine, and when i said thanks for your reply it wasn’t a sarcasam, i truly mean it.

However, your situation is well it’s dire to be fair, and i stand with your point of view as well.
I just don’t think that there’s anything that can be done in that case, until someone proves me otherwise, raids will always be custom-tailored otherwise they wont be challenging-fun at all.
We could have “bosses” like world-bosses, that don’t require you to do pretty much anything, other than spam 1, but it’d just feel kittenty tbh.
I got into this game because of®Aids only.

I’ve personally changed couple of classes here, because i was bad with them, one being PS warrior, and another one Druid, i simply can’t heal here without additional UI being in place.
So i’m playing Guard/Herald/Condi Eng, etc.

i understand that this’s not something that you should be doing, but maybe try changing another class and looking at end-content performance of that particular class and its playstyle, maybe it’ll be something that’ll interest you.

Sillytune.1580:

Shadelang.3012:

@Sillytune I played in the other expansions two man. Its why I said it how I did. I played all they way till MOP*. Including lich king when beast mastery hunters were considered jokes outside of BGs. I still topped dps meters even against top level players there.

Its true that its different than in GW2. I was only making an example based on my past experiences. Not a direct comparison by any means.

That illusion of choice is part of what annoys me. This game lies to you from the get go. Gets you to love a playstyle. Learn it. Master it. And when you get to the content that you have worked so hard to be able to play. It tells you that everything you did was completely worthless.

As for giving it time. How many expansions should I wait do you wonder? Do you REALLY think dps ranger is ever gonna out perform buff applying rangers in group environments? Not without those buffs being gutted first. Its built into the class too deeply now.

And im not gonna ask anet to butcher the rest of the ranger class so I can feel important there.

Its the same thing with condi reaper vs power reaper. Unless power reaper gets heavy buffs. Or condi reaper gets heavy nerfs it probably isn’t going to change. And again. Im not gonna ask anet to break someone elses playstyle to fit my needs. Or WORSE. Put players that love condi reaper to death and don’t want to play power reaper in the same position I am in now.

Thats why I gave up. Because no matter who wins here someone has to lose. If it isn’t those of us that don’t enjoy the current gameplay then itl be someone else that won’t enjoy our gameplay. So theres no point just pushing the misery onto other people.

“Shrug” Im never going to see gorseval. And im never going to see the bosses of SP or the new raid thats about to release.

Simply because there probably wont be any room for me.

And im okay with that. My post was only to awnser your question. Does it suck? Yeah. And it probably means my life span in this game won’t be for too much longer unless other things continue to catch my attention. But that isn’t the raids fault or the players fault or even anets fault. Its just how the dice rolled.

Edit: Bah realised after I posted that it made it sound like I was playing the martyr card. Not gonna edit it because this is still how I feel but wanted to say that wasn’t what I was going for. Just an accurate as possible portrayal of my feelings on the subject.

Nah again, you’re doing fine, and when i said thanks for your reply it wasn’t a sarcasam, i truly mean it.

However, your situation is well it’s dire to be fair, and i stand with your point of view as well.
I just don’t think that there’s anything that can be done in that case, until someone proves me otherwise, raids will always be custom-tailored otherwise they wont be challenging-fun at all.
We could have “bosses” like world-bosses, that don’t require you to do pretty much anything, other than spam 1, but it’d just feel kittenty tbh.
I got into this game because of®Aids only.

I’ve personally changed couple of classes here, because i was bad with them, one being PS warrior, and another one Druid, i simply can’t heal here without additional UI being in place.
So i’m playing Guard/Herald/Condi Eng, etc.

i understand that this’s not something that you should be doing, but maybe try changing another class and looking at end-content performance of that particular class and its playstyle, maybe it’ll be something that’ll interest you.

Again I never said we should have easier bosses. My “DREAM” would be to have builds that provide similar levels of utility also provide similar levels of dps. And dps focused builds that don’t provide utiltiy provide the dps to make up for it. The difference between dps builds should be HOW the damage is applied. To enable people with multiple playstyles to play the content. And to account for specific rolls (like vale guardian who REQUIRES a condi dps).

lets take power reaper and condi reaper as examples agian. Both are capable of aoe boon stripping and CC as well as debuffing. Which is the utility of their builds. But their potential dps has significant differences.

Condi reapers potential dps is MUCH higher than that of a power reaper. Even in ideal circumstances for the power reaper and sub ideal for the condi. Two builds that fulfill the same purpose to significantly different results.

If the difference in dps between the builds was only one or two thousand. Then people would be more inclined to pick their build based on the “flavor” of there build. A valk reaper plays differently than a zerk reaper. A zerk reaper plays differntly than a condi reaper. But ultimately all 3 fulfill the same utility roll in combat to similar effectiveness.

Its the application and levels of there damage that separate them apart and make only one of them ever viable.

I should warn you the second half of your post begins to sound condescending. The advice you have given is one that has occurred to me already so it sounds like your trying to talk down to me. Or that you feel like your talking to an inexperienced player and feel pity which is also something people could take as insulting. I don’t think thats your intent but I thought I should warn you.

Other classes/builds simply don’t have the same level of enjoyment for me. And Id rather let someone who will enjoy the content on those builds play rather than take the spot of someone who will have more fun than I will because I feel like I am fighting my own build. (Which is how playing condi/buff bot builds feels to me personally).

Shadelong, I agree that power reaper needs some look at. Either raising weapon coefficients on Dagger/Greatsword or reworking traits to actually be effective in a raid encounter (looking at you Reaper’s onslaught and Soul Eater). If Power reaper was buffed to be comparable to other power dpses or a new specialization for ranger came out that was more in line with normal Power Ranger, would that get you to Raid?

DrEckers.2039:

Shadelong, I agree that power reaper needs some look at. Either raising weapon coefficients on Dagger/Greatsword or reworking traits to actually be effective in a raid encounter (looking at you Reaper’s onslaught and Soul Eater). If Power reaper was buffed to be comparable to other power dpses or a new specialization for ranger came out that was more in line with normal Power Ranger, would that get you to Raid?

While it would close the gap and allow me to make the attempt. There is still community belief we have to worry about.

Power Reaper is more LIKELY to be accepted than ranger. Because ranger currently fills its roll as a buffer even if the ranger wants to give that up in return for more personnel damage its likely the raid community itself would ignore any increases to its dps outside of that buffer roll in order to maintain its aspect as a buff for the rest of the raid. Druid is just too good at improving other peoples damage. And I am worried the class will be pidgeon holed into druid (atleast for PvE) for quite some time without some HEFTY reworks to the base class I can’t expect this late in the games life.

It would be easier with Reaper. As currently the largest reason to run condi reaper over power reaper is the higher damage. A base damage increase to power builds that put it on par with condi builds would mitigate the largest reason to take condi builds over power. And it would then be decided by the mechanics of the individual fight and the desires of the individual raid group.

Its still not a guarantee however. Even with those buffs it would likely take weeks if not months before “lf condi reaper” became “lf reaper” appeared in the PuR community. As for organized raids. They will likely be more accepting after the first round of DPS tests came out on reddit showing the two would be nearly equal. This would happen faster if the people posting the tests were well know groups such as DnT who have a significant affect on player opinion towards composition.

So even with buffs there is a good number of ifs. But that isn’t completely what you asked.

If I could begin to find raid groups on the builds I enjoy. I would likely begin looking for a long term raid group again. Regardless of how it was done.

What I would hope however is that it was done in a way that made the different builds equal. With only there utility separating them. (or in the case of power reaper vs condi reaper their damage application method) Or the utility they DO provide balanced in such a way that there is a reason to take either of them depending on raid composition.

Edit: Tl;DR Yes it would. But I feel that would be the easy way out and would just lead to this kind of issue happening for someone else instead of me. Which I feel is inherently kittened up if its possible to atleast mitigate it.

Rednik.3809:

Aceofsppades.6873:

I agree right with what you’re saying. 2 years ago I had to get a time machine to get my BIS ascended gear because it obviously didn’t exist before raids according to you.

Ascended gear can be crafted and acquired by a lots of ways. Name other way to get legendary armor except raids.

Preach it. We fought hard to make this an unfufiling game devoid of challenge and we will continue to fight untill every last ounce of challenge and interesting content has been wiped from this game.

And those that like the raids, they don’t deserve to get what they want because because it’s not what I want and I deserve to be catered to for self evident reasons.

Oh, so you are playing it for challenge? Then I guess you will agree that raids must be stripped from legendary armor and unique stat items, because you want only challenge, right?

Legendary armour has the same stats as ascended. Ascended is still BIS, it just shares the place. If you are going to argue that stat swapping makes it incredibly better I am going to struggle to take you seriously because then you would be vastly overestimating the worth of stat swapping.

I love how challenge and no rewards are somehow the same thing to you. Can I guess at other things that are equal to you? Maybe water and bricks, or even you and lord of the universe who is more important than anyone else.

Aceofsppades.6873:

Legendary armour has the same stats as ascended. Ascended is still BIS, it just shares the place. If you are going to argue that stat swapping makes it incredibly better I am going to struggle to take you seriously because then you would be vastly overestimating the worth of stat swapping.

It’s better? Better. Therefore, BIS.

Aceofsppades.6873:

I love how challenge and no rewards are somehow the same thing to you. Can I guess at other things that are equal to you? Maybe water and bricks, or even you and lord of the universe who is more important than anyone else.

Who saying about no rewards? Stripping of legendary armor and unique stats means that raid rewards will be same as in other game modes, but on top of that there will be a challenge that you praise so much. Oh wait, you not playing raids for challenging content?