Guild Wars 2

Doing the new fractal feels more like doing a raid where one misplaced mechanic would get the party wiped. as a person who has already done raids to get a full set of legendary armor and is sick of raids, please tune the new fractal down.

If you want challenging content then put in better rewards. After spending 3 hours in the new dungeon pugging and getting 5g is NOT rewarding at all.

Fractals especially T4 are designed to be the stepping stones for you to get ready to raid.
So lets not dumb this down any further.

Also, just going to point out the ongoing comical nature of these forums. It’s hilarious to read the comments from people claiming to raid who cannot do this fractal, its even more comical to read the comments from people who wanted 5 person challenging content….Now that they have it they complain.

TexZero.7910:

Fractals especially T4 are designed to be the stepping stones for you to get ready to raid.
So lets not dumb this down any further.

Also, just going to point out the ongoing comical nature of these forums. It’s hilarious to read the comments from people claiming to raid who cannot do this fractal, its even more comical to read the comments from people who wanted 5 person challenging content….Now that they have it they complain.

Yup, I keep losing faith on the players.

TexZero.7910:

Fractals especially T4 are designed to be the stepping stones for you to get ready to raid.
So lets not dumb this down any further.

Also, just going to point out the ongoing comical nature of these forums. It’s hilarious to read the comments from people claiming to raid who cannot do this fractal, its even more comical to read the comments from people who wanted 5 person challenging content….Now that they have it they complain.

That doesn’t mean a fractal should feel like a raid. In all seriousness, this new fractal could very well qualify as a 5 man team raid due to its length and the amount of mechanics involved. Also, one misplay from one player, just like raids, can cause the entire team to fail. I definitely enjoyed it but the the reward at the end is not worth it at all.

Fuji.6284:

TexZero.7910:

Fractals especially T4 are designed to be the stepping stones for you to get ready to raid.
So lets not dumb this down any further.

Also, just going to point out the ongoing comical nature of these forums. It’s hilarious to read the comments from people claiming to raid who cannot do this fractal, its even more comical to read the comments from people who wanted 5 person challenging content….Now that they have it they complain.

That doesn’t mean a fractal should feel like a raid. In all seriousness, this new fractal could very well qualify as a 5 man team raid due to its length and the amount of mechanics involved. Also, one misplay from one player, just like raids, can cause the entire team to fail. I definitely enjoyed it but the the reward at the end is not worth it at all.

Wait….

Let me get this straight, you want 5 man challenging content that is the stepping stones for raiding to NOT feel like a raid ?

I don’t even anymore.

And yes one person can cause a wipe, but it only takes 3 people to remove the problem. Either they learn or they don’t in which case you can remove them.

As for length, are we deluding ourselves here ? I did the entire thing yesterday in ~23 minutes which included 1 wipe at Arkk.

TexZero.7910:

Fuji.6284:

TexZero.7910:

Fractals especially T4 are designed to be the stepping stones for you to get ready to raid.
So lets not dumb this down any further.

Also, just going to point out the ongoing comical nature of these forums. It’s hilarious to read the comments from people claiming to raid who cannot do this fractal, its even more comical to read the comments from people who wanted 5 person challenging content….Now that they have it they complain.

That doesn’t mean a fractal should feel like a raid. In all seriousness, this new fractal could very well qualify as a 5 man team raid due to its length and the amount of mechanics involved. Also, one misplay from one player, just like raids, can cause the entire team to fail. I definitely enjoyed it but the the reward at the end is not worth it at all.

Wait….

Let me get this straight, you want 5 man challenging content that is the stepping stones for raiding to NOT feel like a raid ?

I don’t even anymore.

And yes one person can cause a wipe, but it only takes 3 people to remove the problem. Either they learn or they don’t in which case you can remove them.

As for length, are we deluding ourselves here ? I did the entire thing yesterday in ~23 minutes which included 1 wipe at Arkk.

I said that this fractal could very much qualify as a 5 man team raid. I understand fractals being a stepping stone to raids but this one is pretty much up there at that level.

I’m glad you can finish this fractal in ~23 minutes. Unfortunately, I can finish many of the raids much quicker than that and the rewards are much better too :/

Fuji.6284:

TexZero.7910:

Fuji.6284:

TexZero.7910:

Fractals especially T4 are designed to be the stepping stones for you to get ready to raid.
So lets not dumb this down any further.

Also, just going to point out the ongoing comical nature of these forums. It’s hilarious to read the comments from people claiming to raid who cannot do this fractal, its even more comical to read the comments from people who wanted 5 person challenging content….Now that they have it they complain.

That doesn’t mean a fractal should feel like a raid. In all seriousness, this new fractal could very well qualify as a 5 man team raid due to its length and the amount of mechanics involved. Also, one misplay from one player, just like raids, can cause the entire team to fail. I definitely enjoyed it but the the reward at the end is not worth it at all.

Wait….

Let me get this straight, you want 5 man challenging content that is the stepping stones for raiding to NOT feel like a raid ?

I don’t even anymore.

And yes one person can cause a wipe, but it only takes 3 people to remove the problem. Either they learn or they don’t in which case you can remove them.

As for length, are we deluding ourselves here ? I did the entire thing yesterday in ~23 minutes which included 1 wipe at Arkk.

I said that this fractal could very much qualify as a 5 man team raid. I understand fractals being a stepping stone to raids but this one is pretty much up there at that level.

I’m glad you can finish this fractal in ~23 minutes. Unfortunately, I can finish many of the raids much quicker than that and the rewards are much better too :/

Yeah, you can finish one boss in that time. I’d love to see you finish the entire wing in that time. It’s a great false analogy you’re trying to set up though.

I think that difficulty is okay, and the practice should help with raids, what I don’t like are the rewards for completing this fractal.
It pays off more just to play other t4 and t3 fractals than to waste 1h on this just for practice.
If they boost up the rewards for completing this fractal, it will surely be more satisfying.

Considering that it was possible to bug Arkk for the first two days and seeing that the random nature of the tiles disappearing is not intended

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6pw5yp/arkk_breaking_platforms_at_40/dksyq8v/?sh=234b46fc&st=J5O37LPU

I can just as well assume that the majority of players who “cleared” the content were abusing said bugs shrug.

idk ppl can already ckeae the cm in less than 20 mins. So idk the notnal 100 maybe in 15? so 2 ez 1 hard would make it around 30 mins perfect time for pugs.

I don’t see what the problem is. It’s like a raid except people won’t kick you for being unlucky enough to have all your best gear and playstyle knowledge attached to a profession that ended up not being part of the meta.

Grogba.6204:

I can just as well assume that the majority of players who “cleared” the content were abusing said bugs shrug.

Or you know, we just aren’t kitten poor at learning mechanics….

But sure clearly everyone who completes content you can’t is either a Cheater or has no life. It’s like the Golden Rule of videogames.

TexZero.7910:

Grogba.6204:

I can just as well assume that the majority of players who “cleared” the content were abusing said bugs shrug.

Or you know, we just aren’t kitten poor at learning mechanics….

But sure clearly everyone who completes content you can’t is either a Cheater or has no life. It’s like the Golden Rule of videogames.

Oh, did I hit a nerve? ¯\(?)/¯

Or are you really saying that having the disappearing tiles appear at 10% or not at all rather than 40% has absolutely no impact on the fight? So what is the point of “hard content” when you can just cheese it by exploiting Arkk into not attacking at all (fixed within two days) or RNG’ing your way to victory (Arkk not doing certain mechanics the intended way).

At this point it just turns into a battle of endurance. Not impressive.

TexZero.7910:

Fractals especially T4 are designed to be the stepping stones for you to get ready to raid.
So lets not dumb this down any further.

Since when has this been the case? Since raids came out? Because if you haven’t noticed but the original fractals compared to the new ones are drastically different in terms of difficulty…. cough Molten Boss cough

Maybe the NEW fractals were designed with this in mind, which I don’t understand because they designed raids for a small fraction of the player base so why do we need a stepping stone. But to me fractals in general felt like a cousin to dungeons (and now replacement).

And I enjoyed the first fight in the new fractal, but the second one has way too much going on. Dodge aoes + trash mobs + bounce this thing along and don’t miss one or wipe + randomly be made into a bomb. And my group gave up on the second boss.

Karnasis.6892:

Since when has this been the case? Since raids came out? Because if you haven’t noticed but the original fractals compared to the new ones are drastically different in terms of difficulty…. cough Molten Boss cough

Maybe the NEW fractals were designed with this in mind, which I don’t understand because they designed raids for a small fraction of the player base so why do we need a stepping stone. But to me fractals in general felt like a cousin to dungeons (and now replacement).

And I enjoyed the first fight in the new fractal, but the second one has way too much going on. Dodge aoes + trash mobs + bounce this thing along and don’t miss one or wipe + randomly be made into a bomb. And my group gave up on the second boss.

While each of the old fractals today are considerably easier than the new ones, this was not the case at launch. Remember doing high level fractals when you couldn’t get enough agony? Talk about punishing 1 shot mechanics that lead to wipes…

Also, it is advantageous for ANET to want to design content that encourages players to improve over time (albeit at different paces per person). It gives them much more flexibility for encounter design, new tech behind the scenes, new mechanics to use elsewhere in the game, etc.

One perfect example is the special action key. Take the new open world map that has really cool and interesting lore tidbits related to the gods when using the special action key. In combat it helps allies certain ways, and hurts enemies. I find it interesting and exciting to pair it up with other people in a larger meta event.

Where did this tech come from? Raids.

Maybe this particular fractal doesn’t have anything jumping out at us that could be used elsewhere in the game, but the point is that there are many reasons to generally want to force improvement of the player base as whole.

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

ButterPeanut.9746:

One perfect example is the special action key. Take the new open world map that has really cool and interesting lore tidbits related to the gods when using the special action key. In combat it helps allies certain ways, and hurts enemies. I find it interesting and exciting to pair it up with other people in a larger meta event.

Where did this tech come from? Raids.

I love the special action key as a tool for design. It gives us a lot more freedom and it can give every fractal a unique “feel”. I find myself wishing I had nova launch in other content.

Exactly. Thank you for commenting on this.

While there are always going to be folks who don’t like content that requires anything more than the minimal amount of focus, you cannot continually design that type of content indefinitely. It is limiting in terms of content design (as a software developer in a different industry, this applies as well).

Think of all the amazing pieces we may not have had if nobody had thought “Hmmmm, we need another button to break out of eggs at Gorseval, or to throw the bomb at Sabetha?”

Another great example…player resetable checkpoint system inside of a JP without needing to die.

The problem with the special action (key) is, that when you first encounter a new action, you don’t know what will happen if you use it. You try to find and move the tiny mouse over it, while in fight, and try to read the popup with the description.

Half way through the reading, you die. Then the special action vanished, and you were not able to figure out what it does. Then you retry the fight, and the same thing may happen again before you fully understand what the key will do.

That’s not a good method to teach players new action key actions. It produces frustration, because you die and lose the fight while you simply try to read a description.

It’s the same with all these tiny buff and debuff signs on my and my enemy’s bar, especially with the special buffs that are added just for that special fight you never encountered before. Constantly adding and expiring the signs, never able to hold the mouse over it long enough to fully read the popups.

WHITE.6803:

Doing the new fractal feels more like doing a raid where one misplaced mechanic would get the party wiped. as a person who has already done raids to get a full set of legendary armor and is sick of raids, please tune the new fractal down.

If you want challenging content then put in better rewards. After spending 3 hours in the new dungeon pugging and getting 5g is NOT rewarding at all.

your complaining about 3 hours? it took me 10 hours just to kill the 3rd and final boss.
there are a few bugs—for sure—but you have to put in work to make it happen. also, defeating a powerful foe is rewarding, is it not? there are a lot of people who expect to receive some great reward for doing very little. change your way of thinking.

Silmar Alech.4305:

The problem with the special action (key) is, that when you first encounter a new action, you don’t know what will happen if you use it. You try to find and move the tiny mouse over it, while in fight, and try to read the popup with the description.

Half way through the reading, you die. Then the special action vanished, and you were not able to figure out what it does. Then you retry the fight, and the same thing may happen again before you fully understand what the key will do.

That’s not a good method to teach players new action key actions. It produces frustration, because you die and lose the fight while you simply try to read a description.

It’s the same with all these tiny buff and debuff signs on my and my enemy’s bar, especially with the special buffs that are added just for that special fight you never encountered before. Constantly adding and expiring the signs, never able to hold the mouse over it long enough to fully read the popups.

While I agree to a certain point we have to admit that the special action key in the new fractal is introduced to us before we even meet an encounter. So, the time is there to read the complete description for a proper usage afterwards.

While it may be fine for the few that find this new content easy, there are a great many that do not. It’s an easy thing to tell people to just learn and practise, I dunno about most people but I play a game to relax, not practise or work. And with family life and commitment outside of games 90% of my guild won’t touch this, for said reasons. I’m not asking for a nerf or easier content but keep in mind that when you make something like this, you’re not making it for the whole community.

Sooloo.1364:

While it may be fine for the few that find this new content easy, there are a great many that do not. It’s an easy thing to tell people to just learn and practise, I dunno about most people but I play a game to relax, not practise or work. And with family life and commitment outside of games 90% of my guild won’t touch this, for said reasons. I’m not asking for a nerf or easier content but keep in mind that when you make something like this, you’re not making it for the whole community.

It quite literally has tiers for this reason. Do the easier tiers to “relax”.

Vinceman.4572:

Silmar Alech.4305:

The problem with the special action (key) is, that when you first encounter a new action, you don’t know what will happen if you use it. You try to find and move the tiny mouse over it, while in fight, and try to read the popup with the description.

Half way through the reading, you die. Then the special action vanished, and you were not able to figure out what it does. Then you retry the fight, and the same thing may happen again before you fully understand what the key will do.

That’s not a good method to teach players new action key actions. It produces frustration, because you die and lose the fight while you simply try to read a description.

It’s the same with all these tiny buff and debuff signs on my and my enemy’s bar, especially with the special buffs that are added just for that special fight you never encountered before. Constantly adding and expiring the signs, never able to hold the mouse over it long enough to fully read the popups.

While I agree to a certain point we have to admit that the special action key in the new fractal is introduced to us before we even meet an encounter. So, the time is there to read the complete description for a proper usage afterwards.

My point wasn’t to focus on the things that the special action key needs. Rather to point out that something so crucial to many different areas of the PvE such as the special action key only exists due to the fact that the devs needed it in order to properly create challenging content in raids. Without it, we may have never seen this new feature. This was just one example of why it is important for challenging content to continue to be developed over time.

Finally got the title yesterday and it took my group a lot of attempts. Just like the nightmare cm, u definitely get used to the pressure after playing it for a time. So it’s worth to keep practicing.

On a side note, there is no way to get the title by abusing platform bugs. It’s not dps related but it bugs with constant wipes as far as i know (thus losing eligibility).

Silmar Alech.4305:

The problem with the special action (key) is, that when you first encounter a new action, you don’t know what will happen if you use it. You try to find and move the tiny mouse over it, while in fight, and try to read the popup with the description.

Half way through the reading, you die. Then the special action vanished, and you were not able to figure out what it does. Then you retry the fight, and the same thing may happen again before you fully understand what the key will do.

That’s not a good method to teach players new action key actions. It produces frustration, because you die and lose the fight while you simply try to read a description.

It’s the same with all these tiny buff and debuff signs on my and my enemy’s bar, especially with the special buffs that are added just for that special fight you never encountered before. Constantly adding and expiring the signs, never able to hold the mouse over it long enough to fully read the popups.

You get the special action key after the first boss and you need it to reach the plattform of the second boss. You should have read it when the second boss starts.

You don’t need to read the buffs/debuffs from the healthbars. You can link them to the chat like items and read it afterwards.

TexZero.7910:

Sooloo.1364:

While it may be fine for the few that find this new content easy, there are a great many that do not. It’s an easy thing to tell people to just learn and practise, I dunno about most people but I play a game to relax, not practise or work. And with family life and commitment outside of games 90% of my guild won’t touch this, for said reasons. I’m not asking for a nerf or easier content but keep in mind that when you make something like this, you’re not making it for the whole community.

It quite literally has tiers for this reason. Do the easier tiers to “relax”.

The fact that fractals has tiered difficulty with progressive rewards and people don’t use them but rather QQ about the top tier being too hard says a lot about what easy mode raids would look like.

TexZero.7910:

Wait….

Let me get this straight, you want 5 man challenging content that is the stepping stones for raiding to NOT feel like a raid ?

I don’t even anymore.

And yes one person can cause a wipe, but it only takes 3 people to remove the problem. Either they learn or they don’t in which case you can remove them.

As for length, are we deluding ourselves here ? I did the entire thing yesterday in ~23 minutes which included 1 wipe at Arkk.

Yes, I would like Fractals not to feel like a raid.

It is impossible for me to get a group for raids unless I am already experienced. There is supposedly holy trinity in raids.

If this is what raids are, then I don’t want Fractals to be like a raid.

NikeEU.7690:

The fact that fractals has tiered difficulty with progressive rewards and people don’t use them but rather QQ about the top tier being too hard says a lot about what easy mode raids would look like.

The issue is that Tier 4 of fractals used to be much easier. Players invested in ascended gear and infusions with reasonable expectations to be able to continue playing the content at that level of difficulty.

I believe the bottom line for most of issues low and middling skilled players have with instanced PvE group content is risk vs reward.

We got too used to low risk (risk being defined as chance of raging teammates, party wipes and absolute failure to complete the instance) and high reward (gold, tokens and drops) activity. Now that the overall design seems to be shifting towards high risk and low-moderate rewards, some people are displeased. This is natural.

If you took a bit more of an objective view of these matters, I’m certain you can understand that although you’ve gained the sort of instanced content you enjoy others have not.

Jahroots.6791:

NikeEU.7690:

The fact that fractals has tiered difficulty with progressive rewards and people don’t use them but rather QQ about the top tier being too hard says a lot about what easy mode raids would look like.

The issue is that Tier 4 of fractals used to be much easier. Players invested in ascended gear and infusions with reasonable expectations to be able to continue playing the content at that level of difficulty.

I believe the bottom line for most of issues low and middling skilled players have with instanced PvE group content is risk vs reward.

We got too used to low risk (risk being defined as chance of raging teammates, party wipes and absolute failure to complete the instance) and high reward (gold, tokens and drops) activity. Now that the overall design seems to be shifting towards high risk and low-moderate rewards, some people are displeased. This is natural.

If you took a bit more of an objective view of these matters, I’m certain you can understand that although you’ve gained the sort of instanced content you enjoy others have not.

See though you have t3 which is low risk, and the exact rewards you’re asking for.
Sure T4 rewards aren’t revolutionary, but they aren’t the dumpsterfire you guys make them out to be. In fact they’re quite good, if you aren’t struggling which at T4 you shouldn’t be unless you make several mistakes (in which case drop down a tier until you improve)

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

I love the special action key as a tool for design. It gives us a lot more freedom and it can give every fractal a unique “feel”. I find myself wishing I had nova launch in other content.

It may give you guys more “freedom” but personally I find it extremely gimmicky and irritating to use. What’s worse is it’s designed to put immense pressure on one person in encounters and if they fail it, it creates bad feeling in the group; eg, the sapper bombs in Sabatha.

Now we have the last boss in the new fractal which punishes the entire group if ONE person makes a mistake, thus making them feel like kitten and possibly booted from the group. Imo, it takes the very worse aspects of mmo encounters from the likes of wow were there is animosity towards a group member for failing some hideous, gimmicky mechanic. I adore the raids but I honestly wish you guys would think a bit more about the repercussions of these things when people actually play as groups.

Might as well put this in an existing thread …

So is this going to be the future of fractals where the rest will be slowly replaced by this style of design? If so I would like to know so I can stop wasting any more or resources I might end up spending going towards fractal related things. I don’t really mind quitting fractals since I was never all that attached to it and unlike other people I don’t mind losing a chunk of the game either. I just want to be able to make an informed decision going forward.

This “throw as much things at you simultaneously” style of design is just not for me.

On top of everything else who decided to give the place such crappy lighting? Is not being able to see the boss properly supposed to be part of the challenge? There is constantly this weird back lighting on it. Already got issues with the cursor disappearing in the middle of a fight and this is not helping that problem at all.

Playing through this fractal has been the most depressing experience in GW2. Nightmare was already borderline tolerable I guess this just crossed it.

Edit: The entire fractal feels sluggish for some reason. No idea what is causing that. Maybe it’s the jump and the slower animation.

The visuals and the setting are nice,but the mechanics make it feel more like SAB than GW2.I thought the great balls of fire in Nightmare were bad and out of place,but this new one I just can’t play,it doesn’t feel GW2ish,it plays more like something for playstation.
And dodging and avoiding AoE is cool,but if I have to do it every 2 seconds it gets old really fast.
The first boss is ok,but everything after is wtf I’d rather slap my face with dirty socks than play this.

Aenaos.8160:

And dodging and avoiding AoE is cool,but if I have to do it every 2 seconds it gets old really fast.

Would you rather stack in one spot the whole fight and keep spamming 1?

Aenaos.8160:

The first boss is ok,but everything after is wtf I’d rather slap my face with dirty socks than play this.

Why would that be your go to bad thing to compare it too? That’s so weird.

Who want a dirty sock to the face? I know I dont since my sock smells.

I just did this for the 1st time tonight. How is the OP getting 5g?

Khisanth.2948:

Might as well put this in an existing thread …

So is this going to be the future of fractals where the rest will be slowly replaced by this style of design? If so I would like to know so I can stop wasting any more or resources I might end up spending going towards fractal related things. I don’t really mind quitting fractals since I was never all that attached to it and unlike other people I don’t mind losing a chunk of the game either. I just want to be able to make an informed decision going forward.

This “throw as much things at you simultaneously” style of design is just not for me.

On top of everything else who decided to give the place such crappy lighting? Is not being able to see the boss properly supposed to be part of the challenge? There is constantly this weird back lighting on it. Already got issues with the cursor disappearing in the middle of a fight and this is not helping that problem at all.

Playing through this fractal has been the most depressing experience in GW2. Nightmare was already borderline tolerable I guess this just crossed it.

Edit: The entire fractal feels sluggish for some reason. No idea what is causing that. Maybe it’s the jump and the slower animation.

No it’s not the standard style. They said multiple times that they also want to create fractals in the old style even here in the forum.

I’d like to add my thoughts on this matter. Eventhough I don’t like the general negative attitude of this thread I will still post here since this is one of the threads most recently active.

I would like to not mention the difficulty level of the fractals, or how challenging it is but I would like to discuss the place it is in.

Like a lot of other have mentioned before, this fractal doesn’t feel like a fractal. It feels like a raid and has a lot of mechanics of raids. I am not comfortable with this since fractals and raids are quite different kinds of content. Not only the mechanics but also the length of the fractals cause me to skip it in my dailies. I know my fractals as a 10-15 minute small dungeon if executed correctly. The new one easily takes 2-3 times as long. I am not comfortable with it taking such a long time to complete.

I do understand that this fractals is special since it has a special place, but shouldnt it then feel like a celebration or coming together of what is great about all other fractals?

Lastly I would like to say that I do really enjoy the content. I do wish it was placed in another position. 5 man raids would be the dream for me. I would like to keep enjoying fractals for what they are or rather were, and also raids for what they are.

I hope my feedback was understandable for you.

Jahroots.6791:

NikeEU.7690:

The fact that fractals has tiered difficulty with progressive rewards and people don’t use them but rather QQ about the top tier being too hard says a lot about what easy mode raids would look like.

The issue is that Tier 4 of fractals used to be much easier. Players invested in ascended gear and infusions with reasonable expectations to be able to continue playing the content at that level of difficulty.

I believe the bottom line for most of issues low and middling skilled players have with instanced PvE group content is risk vs reward.

We got too used to low risk (risk being defined as chance of raging teammates, party wipes and absolute failure to complete the instance) and high reward (gold, tokens and drops) activity. Now that the overall design seems to be shifting towards high risk and low-moderate rewards, some people are displeased. This is natural.

If you took a bit more of an objective view of these matters, I’m certain you can understand that although you’ve gained the sort of instanced content you enjoy others have not.

If you were more objective you’d see thefe is a simple solution: go down a tier and practice until you’re ready for tier 4.

Saying you got used to easy mode tier 4 and now it’s not face roll and you deserve face roll is just entitlement. Also level 100 non cm is pretty easy you just have to have some pracTice with the mechanics. Instead of complaining on forums try to use your time to productively increase your play experience.

gjBackBone.4807:

I’d like to add my thoughts on this matter. Eventhough I don’t like the general negative attitude of this thread I will still post here since this is one of the threads most recently active.

I would like to not mention the difficulty level of the fractals, or how challenging it is but I would like to discuss the place it is in.

Like a lot of other have mentioned before, this fractal doesn’t feel like a fractal. It feels like a raid and has a lot of mechanics of raids. I am not comfortable with this since fractals and raids are quite different kinds of content. Not only the mechanics but also the length of the fractals cause me to skip it in my dailies. I know my fractals as a 10-15 minute small dungeon if executed correctly. The new one easily takes 2-3 times as long. I am not comfortable with it taking such a long time to complete.

I do understand that this fractals is special since it has a special place, but shouldnt it then feel like a celebration or coming together of what is great about all other fractals?

Lastly I would like to say that I do really enjoy the content. I do wish it was placed in another position. 5 man raids would be the dream for me. I would like to keep enjoying fractals for what they are or rather were, and also raids for what they are.

I hope my feedback was understandable for you.

I understand where you are comming from but did arena net ever said " fractaps are supposed to be this or that"? Fractaps are manifestations of the mist they canlitterally be w/e they like.

Ppl in the past have asked for longer fractals and we already had some longer fractals like cliffside.

They have atated that theres absolutely room for oldschool style of fractals and honestly was a sure thing.

Calling the base version a raid is also unfair. What just because i cant sleep mid fractal and still win the fight doesthat make it a raid and also makes it something that fractals arent supposed to be?

As for the cm tbh its harder than w4 and thats fine cm modes exist outside the tiers and they can be as hard as they can because they are challenge modes after all.

Also iv already seen 12-15 min clears on the normal 100.

Let’s also not pretend that OG Fractal 40-50 was ‘Easy’. Everything would one-shot, the design was archaic and groups were I dare say more toxic to anyone not being meta. You had to be one of maybe 4 professions in any decent clear group. If you made a group with anything else you would be joined by likeminded folks and spend hours in OG Cliffside and Dredge alone.

Are you telling me an experienced raider with legendary armor is unable to organize a group that can clear what are basically 5 man miniraid bosses? That they lack the ability to research a fight only slightly before hand to learn mechanics, most of which can be reacted to blindly, and then after failing in all of this … is asking for the nerfing of content that other, less experienced players have cleared and enjoy?

I feel the need to disagree with this idea entirely.

zealex.9410:

gjBackBone.4807:

I’d like to add my thoughts on this matter. Eventhough I don’t like the general negative attitude of this thread I will still post here since this is one of the threads most recently active.

I would like to not mention the difficulty level of the fractals, or how challenging it is but I would like to discuss the place it is in.

Like a lot of other have mentioned before, this fractal doesn’t feel like a fractal. It feels like a raid and has a lot of mechanics of raids. I am not comfortable with this since fractals and raids are quite different kinds of content. Not only the mechanics but also the length of the fractals cause me to skip it in my dailies. I know my fractals as a 10-15 minute small dungeon if executed correctly. The new one easily takes 2-3 times as long. I am not comfortable with it taking such a long time to complete.

I do understand that this fractals is special since it has a special place, but shouldnt it then feel like a celebration or coming together of what is great about all other fractals?

Lastly I would like to say that I do really enjoy the content. I do wish it was placed in another position. 5 man raids would be the dream for me. I would like to keep enjoying fractals for what they are or rather were, and also raids for what they are.

I hope my feedback was understandable for you.

I understand where you are comming from but did arena net ever said " fractaps are supposed to be this or that"? Fractaps are manifestations of the mist they canlitterally be w/e they like.

Ppl in the past have asked for longer fractals and we already had some longer fractals like cliffside.

They have atated that theres absolutely room for oldschool style of fractals and honestly was a sure thing.

Calling the base version a raid is also unfair. What just because i cant sleep mid fractal and still win the fight doesthat make it a raid and also makes it something that fractals arent supposed to be?

As for the cm tbh its harder than w4 and thats fine cm modes exist outside the tiers and they can be as hard as they can because they are challenge modes after all.

Also iv already seen 12-15 min clears on the normal 100.

You’re missing the point I am making, and also appear to understand things I never said.

The point I am making is not about what fractals are supposed to be or what they are intended to be like. I am comparing the new fractal to the fractals we already had, its about continuation. On top of that what I say is highly subjective. This is about the way I see it, I do not claim some universal truth about all of this.

To rephrase my whole previous post: I dont like the direction this develops in. I do like the content but I dont feel like its put here in the right place because to me it feels more like raids than fractals.

Can you try and respond again to this rephrased feedback?

gjBackBone.4807:

zealex.9410:

gjBackBone.4807:

I’d like to add my thoughts on this matter. Eventhough I don’t like the general negative attitude of this thread I will still post here since this is one of the threads most recently active.

I would like to not mention the difficulty level of the fractals, or how challenging it is but I would like to discuss the place it is in.

Like a lot of other have mentioned before, this fractal doesn’t feel like a fractal. It feels like a raid and has a lot of mechanics of raids. I am not comfortable with this since fractals and raids are quite different kinds of content. Not only the mechanics but also the length of the fractals cause me to skip it in my dailies. I know my fractals as a 10-15 minute small dungeon if executed correctly. The new one easily takes 2-3 times as long. I am not comfortable with it taking such a long time to complete.

I do understand that this fractals is special since it has a special place, but shouldnt it then feel like a celebration or coming together of what is great about all other fractals?

Lastly I would like to say that I do really enjoy the content. I do wish it was placed in another position. 5 man raids would be the dream for me. I would like to keep enjoying fractals for what they are or rather were, and also raids for what they are.

I hope my feedback was understandable for you.

I understand where you are comming from but did arena net ever said " fractaps are supposed to be this or that"? Fractaps are manifestations of the mist they canlitterally be w/e they like.

Ppl in the past have asked for longer fractals and we already had some longer fractals like cliffside.

They have atated that theres absolutely room for oldschool style of fractals and honestly was a sure thing.

Calling the base version a raid is also unfair. What just because i cant sleep mid fractal and still win the fight doesthat make it a raid and also makes it something that fractals arent supposed to be?

As for the cm tbh its harder than w4 and thats fine cm modes exist outside the tiers and they can be as hard as they can because they are challenge modes after all.

Also iv already seen 12-15 min clears on the normal 100.

You’re missing the point I am making, and also appear to understand things I never said.

The point I am making is not about what fractals are supposed to be or what they are intended to be like. I am comparing the new fractal to the fractals we already had, its about continuation. On top of that what I say is highly subjective. This is about the way I see it, I do not claim some universal truth about all of this.

To rephrase my whole previous post: I dont like the direction this develops in. I do like the content but I dont feel like its put here in the right place because to me it feels more like raids than fractals.

Can you try and respond again to this rephrased feedback?

I dont really have anything diff to say. I can see that this is diff than what we had and it can be compaired more to raids but i believe thats fine because we got many fractals and many more are comming.

Fractals can be diff anyway the devs choose so and ppl can have a diff prespective to what is acceptable in fractals or not. I believe you can have something that would resemble a5 man raid because there wasnt ever a statement that ties fractals in a specific spot or lvl of difficulty.

Fractals are also played by alot more ppl with diff preferences. I for example hae long wanted something more tight than a stack and dps golem type of fractal.

Which i feel we got alot from the previous ones so i believe this answers my calls. Both 99 and 100 require me to be on my toes and be there and not drofting somewhere else while presing keys.

Also i wonna note that this isnt a direction. I believe this is more of an emphasis that fractals dont necessaraly have a format and theres creative freedom as to what the devs can make. Its been already stated that the next fractal will be easier which will possibly make ot look less than a raid. They have also stated that more oldschool fractals are going to be a thing.

I wonna add that the devs could go for a vg kind of fight with 100 or they chould go with a matthias fight. Both are fine with me when it comes to difficult content.

I can see ppl not liking this type of fractals but i also expect that ppl can see that other (me included) dont like the aproach on fractals like solid ocean, and the one with the drill or the orerework swanpland/snowblind.

gjBackBone.4807:

To rephrase my whole previous post: I dont like the direction this develops in. I do like the content but I dont feel like its put here in the right place because to me it feels more like raids than fractals.

Can you try and respond again to this rephrased feedback?

Sounds like you have a cognitive bias that associates mechanics with raids since the game was mechanically light for the previous 4 years. It also seems like you’re dislike for the direction is ultimately misplace because they told you the exact direct they wanted fractals to be when they started the rework processes. They wanted T4 to provide for people a source of challenging 5 man instanced content that was lacking.

I’d say they’ve flawlessly executed on both. But as per usual the community sees change for the better and instantly comes back with kneejerk reactions.

So, just did the new fractal for the first time tonight. First try was a level 75 where I joined a wiped boss on the first fight. Proceeded to wipe 3 more times and everybody left. The second attempt was in a level 25 fight and it was honestly pretty fun even if we failed at the last boss. I honestly loved most of the mechanics and didn’t mind the length of things.

But, the orb bouncing in the last fight really needs to have the mechanics looked at. In the group I was in some people just could not get the hang of it and the punishment for that was basically a instant wipe. We finished the last try getting him down to about 40%, but meh.

I’ll try again, but I don’t think I’ll worry about doing it on harder fractals for some time to come.

Neuriot.9806:

So, just did the new fractal for the first time tonight. First try was a level 75 where I joined a wiped boss on the first fight. Proceeded to wipe 3 more times and everybody left. The second attempt was in a level 25 fight and it was honestly pretty fun even if we failed at the last boss. I honestly loved most of the mechanics and didn’t mind the length of things.

But, the orb bouncing in the last fight really needs to have the mechanics looked at. In the group I was in some people just could not get the hang of it and the punishment for that was basically a instant wipe. We finished the last try getting him down to about 40%, but meh.

I’ll try again, but I don’t think I’ll worry about doing it on harder fractals for some time to come.

I treat it like the split phase at siax. We put markers where each orb will spawn so when the phase starts we know where to go. Then we move clock wise each to his pillar.

TexZero.7910:

gjBackBone.4807:

To rephrase my whole previous post: I dont like the direction this develops in. I do like the content but I dont feel like its put here in the right place because to me it feels more like raids than fractals.

Can you try and respond again to this rephrased feedback?

Sounds like you have a cognitive bias that associates mechanics with raids since the game was mechanically light for the previous 4 years. It also seems like you’re dislike for the direction is ultimately misplace because they told you the exact direct they wanted fractals to be when they started the rework processes. They wanted T4 to provide for people a source of challenging 5 man instanced content that was lacking.

I’d say they’ve flawlessly executed on both. But as per usual the community sees change for the better and instantly comes back with kneejerk reactions.

Yes, I am very biased.. All I am saying is the way I like things, yet people respond with trying to convince me that what Anet did is okay. I never said it’s not okay or its bad. I am merely voicing a preference. You explaining why Anet implemented the fractal as is completely misses the point. What I say is highly subjective, as stated before. What I am saying has everything to do with how the content feels like to me. I feel like the nightmare fractals is great, but I dont feel that way about the Shattered Observatory.

imo there are some issues that should be addressed:

boss 1: The sun is a visual eye sore, so bright its blinding and unpleasant to have on my screen.

boss 1: split phase: the trash mobs use cc so frequently, but they are a small hit box made of white light, not easy to actually see the tells, and so its difficult to dodge. You can’t blind or cc them, so it feels like there is no active counterplay, just spam distore/aegis/stability.

boss 3: Too much visual clutter, raids can have lots of mechanics because models are large enough you can actually see things among the sea of visual noise. In short, Ark is too small to see comfortably imo.

Not knowing the mechanics of the new fractal i started some scale 25 runs to get the hang of it.

Some good and some bad, but there was always something new to understand and learn (at least for me).
What really annoyed in these 2 days of many failed tries were these lvl100 elitists complaining about people not knowing the mechanics and not willing to drop some information and insta leaving after 2 or 3 failed attempts.
Why joining lowest scale fractal with this kind of attitude?

With this experience it’s hard to judge the fractal itself.

To me the last boss seems to be filled with too many mechanics. I don’t wanna know how things go once instabilities come into play.