Guild Wars 2

A few problems with dungeon mechanics:

1. Having the “Dungeon Master” achievement (and corresponding title) should mean the players played through each dungeon at least once, right? But it doesn’t. All it means is the player was inside each dungeon when it was completed. As a consequence, LFG is full of people “buying” and “selling” the last boss in dungeons, and the result is a ton of absolutely clueless players (who clearly never killed a single dungeon boss) going around with “Dungeon Master” under their name. That title is now completely meaningless (in fact, it seems the people most likely to “wear it” are the ones who bought it). You might as well sell it at the gem store (effectively, that’s what you’re already doing, because players can buy gems, use the black-box exchange to get gold, and then pay the gold to get the achievements).

2. Let’s say I do an entire dungeon with 4 players from a different guild. When we’re at the last boss, they kick me and invite one of their guild mates (or I get disconnected and they invite someone else). Result? I don’t get the dungeon completion chest (or the daily bonus chest, if it was a first run) and the guy who was just invited (and who was simply sitting by the dungeon entrance when the boss died) gets both rewards, despite not having done anything inside the dungeon.

3. The player who entered the dungeon first has a real-life emergency (or is a troll…) and decides to leave the party half way through the dungeon. What happens? Everyone else gets kicked, and the dungeon is reset. This still happens more than one year after the game was released (and, to be honest, shouldn’t have happened even in beta, if the party system had been designed properly).

How hard can it be to:

a) Make the completion achievement for each dungeon require that the player was present at (and did damage to) each of the dungeon’s bosses (ex., to get SE P1 marked as complete, you must have participated in a successful fight against Impasse Mark IV, Nokk, the Prototypes, and Tazza). GW2 already supports sub-achievements and meta-achievements, so this can’t be too hard to implement (and list, under the achievement, which bosses we have killed and which ones we are missing). Just about every other MMO does this correctly.

b) Give players rewards for things they’ve actually done (i.e., give dungeon tokens after each encounter, adjusted for that encounter’s difficulty, and only to players who actually did some damage during that encounter). Players should never get a reward simply for being in the party when the dungeon ends.

c) Not kick an entire party out of a dungeon just because one of its members had to leave. Even MMOs released almost ten years ago managed to get this right, so how hard can it be, in 2013, to understand that a party and a player are different things, and that you shouldn’t punish 4 people for the fact that the 5th person had to leave?

These are basic design flaws that shouldn’t have been in the game in the first place. Seeing them remain there for more than one year after release is just depressing.

[note: this was a reply to a post that has since been deleted]

The people designing the terrain and buildings are not the same people designing the creatures, which are not the same people coding the AI, which are not the same people writing the dungeon story or designing its encounters, which are not the same people coding the party system, which are not the same people creating the achievements.

There’s really not an isolated “dungeon team”, and this post was mainly about general game mechanics (as they apply to dungeons).

Actual dungeon design is a different issue (and has its own problems, but they’re not as easy to explain or fix).

Dungeon master is a worthless title, I flushed it after arah p4 completition . You are right , the title can be bought which is lame, but I think selling dungeons is a great option if you want faster gold . And people would QQ if the most damage gets more reward , I would QQ aswell because I’m not gonna buy the fail ascended gear .

a t s e.9614:

You are right , the title can be bought which is lame, but I think selling dungeons is a great option if you want faster gold.

It’s certainly a very fast way to get on my block list.

a t s e.9614:

people would QQ if the most damage gets more reward , I would QQ aswell because I’m not gonna buy the fail ascended gear .

I never suggested that “the most damage should get more rewarded”. I said don’t give people an achievement simply for being in the party when the boss dies – require that the player is actually involved in the fight and does some damage (ex., minimum 5% of the boss’ health and / or 5% of the total party healing).

You block people that sell paths lol ? I would block those who buy them instead , how lazy a person has to be to buy some paths ….
The path selling needs no restriction , its too late anyway , the reward system in this game is a huge mess already.

Heyheyhey, be careful, naughty boy. You might get into his blocklist!

You might as well say that “buying drugs is lame but selling them is a fast way of making money”. One wouldn’t exist without the other. The people selling “fakechievements” know exactly what they’re doing, and are every bit as lame.

Besides, I have no way of knowing, in LFG, which of the people in that “selling last boss” party are buying and which are selling. And since I don’t like either of them, I simply block them all.

LOL dude are you serious , you block people w\o reason . What’s wrong with path selling? Are you angry because somebody makes tons of cash out of it ? That mentality is ridiculous , that’s why people get banned everyday because of people like this , they block and report everybody that has a different mindset.

a t s e.9614:

What’s wrong with path selling? Are you angry because somebody makes tons of cash out of it ? That mentality is ridiculous , that’s why people get banned everyday because of people like this , they block and report everybody that has a different mindset.

Yeah, it’s horrible how they persecute the poor drug pushers / fake ID sellers / weapon smugglers / etc., too. After all, they have no responsibility in the matter, right?

I couldn’t care less how much “cash” (?) they make. They are enabling a kind of behaviour I don’t like, and if that’s the only way they can think of to make gold, they are probably not very smart, and not someone I would ever want in my party or guild.

They are absolutely free to keep on doing it, and I’m absolutely free to hope I never meet them (and use my block list as a tool to ensure that).

Even if 1) was implemented ppl would still sell paths, because for ppl who buy runs getting a competent team to carry you through p4 is much faster and much less painful than doing it yourself in a party of the same abilities/knowledge as yourself. It would probably cost more though.

Silver.3284:

Even if 1) was implemented ppl would still sell paths […] getting a competent team to carry you through p4 is much faster

I’m fine with someone charging a fee to guide you through a dungeon. The issue is that, given the way the game works, you can buy the final dungeon achievement (and the chest / token reward) without actually participating in the dungeon run at all. That’s why I mention people “selling the last boss” (i.e., the end-of-dungeon reward and achievement) in point #1.

Implementing (a) and (b) would get rid of that.

As long as you actually do the full dungeon, I couldn’t care less who you pay (or give a massage to).

Who cares?
One person spent time to solo the dungeon and sell the path to another person who spent time somewhere else to get the gold to buy those dungeon tokens.

Your comparisson of path sellers to drug deals is completely out of whack, not because it compares real life to video game, but the fact that one actually has real life harm while the other doesn’t. In fact dungeon selling isn’t even against the ToS/EULA, just your own ethical code you are trying to force down other people’s throat. I think I can compare what you are doing to certain religous groups.

Be careful man , he might report you for cheating if you don’t agree with him .

Vespa.1790:

Who cares?
One person spent time to solo the dungeon

What makes you so sure they soloed the dungeon…? That’s a bit naïf…

A lot of the people “selling the final boss” are the ones kicking players just before the final boss.

1. Get 2 or 3 guild mates.
2. Go into LFG and recruit more players.
3. Play through the dungeon (make sure you are the first to enter).
4. Just before the final boss, you and your guild mates kick the other players.
5. Advertise “last boss for sale” in LFG
6. Profit!

Vespa.1790:

just your own ethical code you are trying to force down other people’s throat.

How, exactly, am I trying to “force” anything down anyone’s throat? “Atse” there (and you too, apparently?) is the one trying to tell me how I can or cannot use my own block list.

As I wrote above, people “are absolutely free to keep on doing it [selling paths]”. Can I be any clearer than that?

Or were you replying to some imaginary post, written by someone else?

And the comparison with drugs was merely to point out that supply and demand are connected. You can’t say “consumers are lame” while ignoring the fact that suppliers advertising their product increase that very same demand. If the mention of drugs confuses you, replace with “fake diplomas”, or anything else. You can’t criticize buyers while praising the sellers – the two are connected.

P.S. – Are you really that desperate for attention, Atse?

About dungeon selling, you see that most of the selling spots are for arah path 2, thats because that path is incredibly easy to solo or duo, and also because now more and more people know how to skip Lupicus on that path, which is the only challenging boss in the entire path, for all other bosses there are tricks you can use to make the fight easy.

I dont think that kicking before the final boss is that common as you say, it may happen if you do or say something that makes the rest of the group mad at you, and that chance increases if there are more than one person from the same guild, but its just not worth it. Maybe the only scenario where it would be worth kicking people to sell spots would be fractals lv 48+ (worth i mean for the scammer sellers, well… you get what i mean by that).

Casmurro.9046:

About dungeon selling, you see that most of the selling spots are for arah path 2

You see them for every Arah path, and for a few other dungeons too (mostly high-level ones, since people do the low level ones to get XP while leveling characters, so they’re not as interested in skipping everything).

Effectively, the way the game currently works lets people sell dungeon tokens (reach the last boss, charge a fee to let someone join, then they get dungeon tokens despite not having done anything in that dungeon).

If Arena Net wants this to be possible, they should simply make the dungeon tokens tradable, maybe even sell them at the gem store.

IMO, dungeon tokens and achievements should require that you actually participate in the dungeon run, not simply that you join at the end and stand at the dungeon entrance when the last boss dies.

Most path 2 sellers do solo but they usually exploit alot and skip lupi. There are many legit sellers in rT, HC, DnT that solo the paths and sell. Just because you’ve heard rumours that people get kicked so the slots can be sold doesnt mean its true. I think you will find that the instances of that happening are about 1%.

Anet specifically said its ok to sell this service as long as no exploits are used and no scamming comes into play.

spoj.9672:

Most path 2 sellers do solo but they usually exploit alot and skip lupi. There are many legit sellers in rT, HC, DnT that solo the paths and sell. Just because you’ve heard rumours that people get kicked so the slots can be sold doesnt mean its true. I think you will find that the instances of that happening are about 1%.

Anet specifically said its ok to sell this service as long as no exploits are used and no scamming comes into play.

We could probably swap the whole subforum for this post and be okay :’)

This may surprise you guys, but someone told me today that the miniature collector title is for sale, too.

Everyone agrees that dungeon master title is stupid and its probably on the same level as combat healer since even worse than buying paths you can get carried in every dungeon and get it, people won’t know if you paid for a service or if you were a full time leecher, i don’t understand the upsetting about this.

I don’t think most of the path sellers pug and kick pugs to sell since pugging increase the duration of the runs depending on how many pugs you have, 1-2-3-4 maning a dungeon is way faster than using pugs.

And last, mesmers should get their portal skill completely removed from the game since players need to do all the jp’s by themselves to get their achievements instead of getting ported to the end.

PD: I sell dungeon paths when i teach or do training runs of arah or melee GL with people on my casual guild and we dont get enough for a full party, to help them with repair costs. Please go ahead and block me, you don’t want scrubs like me in your party.

Yea make the tokens tradable who cares , I get nothing from the mytic toilet while flushing exotics , Id rather sell them . I would be happy if they made those worthless tokens tradabe .

Also I support kicking 100% , if you got kicked you probably didnt deserve the reward anyway.

Apparently fotm levels are reset to 30 because a couple people exploited past that, according to the dicussion thread.

Therefore, just wait a few months and dungeon master along with tokens will be removed because a couple people exploited dungeons sometime.

Dungeon sellers, people that wants 5k AP and don’t know how to play, exploiters, classism (only warriors, mesmers), well unfunny people are a threat, seriously ArenaNet should really go and see what is happening in Arah LFG section, it’s extremely easy to identify exploiters there because they admit it in the description, i mean com’on! Fixing the boat exploit and not fixing lupi skip, going under arah glitch, and unlocking corrupted light WP exploit is master programming there, and if you don’t believe me go check Youtube, you find tutorial on how to do these easily.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

someone told me today that the miniature collector title is for sale, too.

How is that in any way related to this topic, or even this forum?

Also, last time I checked, minis were tradable between players, and sold at the gem store. Dungeon tokens aren’t (but in fact you can buy tokens for any dungeon, due to the way the game gives the dungeon completion chests even to players who haven’t killed a single boss). If Arena Net wants those tokens to be tradable, they should simply allow us to sell them at the trading post. I have over 1500 tokens for most dungeons in my wallet, and I’d gladly sell them to anyone who wants the dungeon gear, if those are the rules.

Casmurro.9046:

I dont think that kicking before the final boss is that common as you say

I didn’t give any statistics about how “common” it is. I merely said it’s trivial to do (and I know it is done, because it happened to two friends of mine this month), and the current dungeon mechanics make it worthwhile, because the person who joins gets all the final rewards without having to do any work. See points (2) and (b) in my original post.

Nosoyelarty.7268:

PD: I sell dungeon paths when i teach or do training runs of arah

If you’re doing “training runs”, presumably the people you bring are actually doing the dungeon and fighting the bosses, no?

So how does that relate to what I wrote (about people selling the last boss - ie, selling the tokens / achievement to buyers who don’t participate in the dungeon at all)? Was that just a strawman argument, or were you replying to someone else?

spoj.9672:

Anet specifically said its ok to sell this service as long as no exploits are used and no scamming comes into play.

Arena Net said it was OK to charge players gold in exchange for letting them have the dungeon tokens and achievement from the last boss, without having to participate in any dungeon encounter?

I’d like to see where they said that. Got a link?

a t s e.9614:

Also I support kicking 100% , if you got kicked you probably didnt deserve the reward anyway.

The things you say make me wonder how many loose screws you have…

I don’t think many people who buy runs do it for dungeon master title, most do it for the tokens. You’re asking for some drastic changes over a pretty minor thing. I personally don’t judge people by their title, I judge them by their attitude and gameplay, you can buy your way into most things in this game, just like you can buy your way into most thing in life.

Account.9832:

I’d like to see where they said that. Got a link?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

And then some support replies and probably some other stuff I don’t remember maybe someone else can link.

Anyway. Anet stance on this didn’t change since GW1.

TKiller.6829:

Account.9832:

I’d like to see where they said that. Got a link?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

And then some support replies and probably some other stuff I don’t remember maybe someone else can link.

Anyway. Anet stance on this didn’t change since GW1.

I’m going to bookmark this so I can just paste it the next time someone asks for proof. Every week like clockwork…

Theres a more recent thread where some1 asked support and gaile confirmed that it was perfectly fine to sell slots.

TKiller.6829:

Account.9832:

I’d like to see where they said that. Got a link?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

And then some support replies and probably some other stuff I don’t remember maybe someone else can link.

Anyway. Anet stance on this didn’t change since GW1.

nice burn for the ignorant.

I’m not against people selling dungeons slots, but I think it should be discouraged. The fact that I can only buy a slot for an Arah party now, is absurd. I think mechanics should be added that make sure you actually do the entire dungeon from start to finish, or you won’t get the completion achievement. It might suck for people who disconnect halfway through, but something has to be done about the lack of people doing this run for free. You can join any random party for Ascalon Catacombs or Caudecus Manor, yet you can find zero parties for Arah, unless its sold for gold? That’s stupid. The dungeon itself needs a revamp, so you can’t skip through it so easily, and need a full party to do it. They also need to find a solution to the problem of people being kicked right before the final chest.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I’m not against people selling dungeons slots, but I think it should be discouraged. The fact that I can only buy a slot for an Arah party now, is absurd. I think mechanics should be added that make sure you actually do the entire dungeon from start to finish, or you won’t get the completion achievement. It might suck for people who disconnect halfway through, but something has to be done about the lack of people doing this run for free. You can join any random party for Ascalon Catacombs or Caudecus Manor, yet you can find zero parties for Arah, unless its sold for gold? That’s stupid. The dungeon itself needs a revamp, so you can’t skip through it so easily, and need a full party to do it. They also need to find a solution to the problem of people being kicked right before the final chest.

yeah it will suck for those who disconnect, if you check out the current dungeon designs it provides buffers to people who dc during runs. Your suggestion would make a total 180 and invalidate current designs. Why not just flag characters at certain checkpoints instead? simple enough. An example of the checkpt flagging would be CoE changes to 3in1

Fighting or fleeing from mobs are a choice, there is no reason why style of gameplay should be limited just because some people want to play superhero.

Account.9832:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

someone told me today that the miniature collector title is for sale, too.

How is that in any way related to this topic, or even this forum?

Title of the thread is “Achievements for Sale.” Guess I was mistaken about you being upset about there being achievements for sale. I dunno, maybe that phrase is extremely ambiguous and I am dumb.

Alternatively, it could be viewed that your position is irrational, and to demonstrate that I hyperbolic-ally provided an example to show that virtually every achievement is “for sale” and perhaps you should consider not being a BHB.

spoj.9672:

Theres a more recent thread where some1 asked support and gaile confirmed that it was perfectly fine to sell slots.

Yup, just couldn’t find the link.

The Gaile’s link

TKiller.6829:

Account.9832:

I’d like to see where they said that. Got a link?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

That says dungeon runs (i.e., charging to let someone join your party, to actually play through the dungeon).

It says nothing about selling a party spot so people can join at the end and get the tokens without participating in the dungeon run at all.

As I said above, I’m absolutely fine with people charging (or paying) for anything they want.

I just don’t think people should get tokens simply for being in the party when the last boss dies. They should only get tokens for bosses they actually fight, regardless of having paid or not.

None of my suggestions in the original post is related to payments; it’s about fixing the broken way in which GW2 awards tokens (and achievements).

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

someone told me today that the miniature collector title is for sale, too.

Account.9832:

How is that in any way related to this topic, or even this forum?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Title of the thread is “Achievements for Sale.”

No. As you know perfectly well (unless you can’t read), the title is "Achievements for sale and other dungeon flaws ". The word “other” makes it pretty clear that the reference to achievements was specifically about dungeons.

And the forum is also very clearly labelled “Dungeons”.

If you want to talk about pet achievements, feel free to create a thread in the appropriate forum.

Simple solutions :
- Fix the exploits so it’s impossible to skip bosses
- Put ‘puzzles’ in that needs four or five people to finish

We know the GW2 combat system lets one high skilled person perform better than five newbies. That isn’t going to change so some solo/duo dungeons will remain possible and players will sell if players will buy.

GW2 generally gives a full share of rewards with anyone who contributes so I doubt they will change that for dungeons. If a group is short of a person the game system should support their efforts to get a replacement to help out, so that means giving full rewards. Path selling should not spoil that.

That says dungeon runs (i.e., charging to let someone join your party, to actually play through the dungeon).

That’s a terrible interpretation which you’ve concocted just to make it sound like there’s actually room for interpretation in the first place.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Selling-dungeons-is-allowed/first#post3061531

Hallo,

ist es erlaubt, wenn man ein Dungeon (man nehme als Beispiel Arah) alleine oder zu zweit legal – also, ohne skips, exploits, bugs oder sonstige verbotene Mitteln – durchspielt, diese dann im Ingame-Lfg-Tool gegen Gold an Spieler zu verkaufen?

Vielen Dank im Voraus für die Antwort.

response

Hallo […],

vielen Dank, dass du dich an das europäische Support Team gewendet hast.

Es sollte kein Problem sein, solange es nicht gegen die Nutzervereinbarung verstößt, bzw. wenn ihr den Dungeon ohne Exploits oder ähnliches durchspielt.

Sollten weitere Fragen oder Probleme auftauchen, stehen wir dir jederzeit gerne zur Verfügung.

google translate -

Hello,

it is allowed, if you have a dungeon (you take as an example Arah) alone or in pairs legally – ie, without skips, exploits, bugs or other illegal means – through play, then sell in-game Lfg tool against gold to player ?

Hello […]

Thank you’ve turned to the European support team.

There should be no problem, as long as it does not violate the User Agreement, or if you play through the dungeon without exploits or similar.

Should any questions or problems arise, please contact us any time you are available.

So, are you allowed to play through a dungeon and then sell the slots? Why yes, yes you can.

I just don’t think people should get tokens simply for being in the party when the last boss dies. They should only get tokens for bosses they actually fight, regardless of having paid or not.

Too bad, get over it. And if you even dare to be a white knight and kick path sellers, then I hope they record it and everybody who sees the picture/video smashes the report button.

None of my suggestions in the original post is related to payments; it’s about fixing the broken way in which GW2 awards tokens (and achievements).

Just because you disagree with it doesn’t mean it’s broken.

- Fix the exploits so it’s impossible to skip bosses

Yeah, I’m sure running across the bridge in COF p1 was a massive exploit when Blaclan was a champion.

ANet needs to identify what the actual exploits are (and not just speed clearers walking past a boss and white knights complaining) before they fix them. Most of the big speed clearers aren’t a fan of exploits (there’s the dumb boat in Arah p2 which actually takes longer than the actual skip which makes it pointless to do, and that was fixed), the only one I can think of that is “accepted” is Arah p4 to skip Vahid, Priest of Melandru because the fight is absolutely dreadful and anti-fun. If the priest in Cursed Shore was brought in instead, I’m pretty sure speed clearers would love to do p4 because that’s an actually well-made boss, and I thought that even before he became popularised, he has hard hitting attacks which are very clearly choreographed swings which makes him punishing but rewarding if you pay attention.

I think we’d all be happy if it was impossible to skip Lupicus too, he’s pretty much the only skill test in Arah and if he’s made unskippable the number of sellers would crash to a low.

Put ‘puzzles’ in that needs four or five people to finish

lf3m tar boss p1, 1g

Yup, and I’ve helped about two or three times groups doing that. If COE was a popular selling dungeon, you’d get the same thing for the lasers.

GW2 generally gives a full share of rewards with anyone who contributes so I doubt they will change that for dungeons. If a group is short of a person the game system should support their efforts to get a replacement to help out, so that means giving full rewards. Path selling should not spoil that.

But then bads who want their dungeon master/shards of zhaitan/empyrial fragments wouldn’t be able to get them as easily. You’re basically saying we shouldn’t be allowed to offer a service because you disagree with path selling for no reason whatsoever, even though ANet said it was fine.

Why do you care about sellers? It doesn’t affect you, you’re not in their instance. LFG is full of sellers? Well, make your own LFG and fill the group in like 2 seconds.

How dare people offer a service to people uninterested or incapable of completing an instance, how dare they offer people a way to get tokens/fragments for their ascended/legendary/arah set, those filthy competent players, they should be terrible like me.

colesy.8490:

God bless.

let’s keep that ready for c/p for next time

colesy making the best of his 1 hour flood control by making an hourly masterpiece of a post

The problem of people “buying” the title doesn’t bother me. I am sad to see “player-offered” services such as running outposts and dungeons in GW1 disappear in Guild Wars 2. It was a closer community as you got to know the seller and form a group. Besides my rant on that, it sounds like you’ve got bad guildees who you run with. No one has ever kicked a party member of a group I’ve been in to let someone else in at the last minute.

colesy.8490:

That says dungeon runs (i.e., charging to let someone join your party, to actually play through the dungeon).

That’s a terrible interpretation which you’ve concocted

It’s not an “interpretation” at all, it’s what the linked message said, as anyone can see by clicking on link:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

A dungeon run is not the same as a dungeon chest. The word “run” clearly implies some participation in the dungeon.

Anyway, as mentioned several times (but you insist on a straw man argument), my issue has nothing to do with people buying or selling slots (that’s just a consequence of the design flaw).

It has to do with the fact that people who have to leave (or get kicked, or disconnected) before the last boss get almost no reward (even if they played through 99% of the dungeon), while people who did absolutely nothing get the full dungeon completion reward (final chest + bonus chest), simply because they joined before the last boss died (and don’t even need to participate in that fight).

I made it pretty clear that I think people are free to buy or sell whatever they want. My post it not addressed at players, it’s addressed at Arena Net.

colesy.8490:

if you even dare to be a white knight and kick path sellers, then I hope they record it and everybody who sees the picture/video smashes the report button

You seem to have some serious rage issues.

And why would I (or anyone else) “kick path sellers” ? That doesn’t even make sense. I wouldn’t be in their party in the first place, because I would never pay to buy a path and I’d never try to sell one.

Calm down a bit and think before “smashing” your keyboard.

colesy.8490:

None of my suggestions in the original post is related to payments; it’s about fixing the broken way in which GW2 awards tokens (and achievements).

Just because you disagree with it doesn’t mean it’s broken.

If you think players who did not kill a single mob in a dungeon should get the dungeon completion chest, I suspect you’re in the minority. That was clearly also not Arena Net’s intention (otherwise they would make the tokens tradable). It’s simply an (exploitable) consequence of the changes introduced in dungeons a few months ago.

colesy.8490:

[lots of stuff]

Please include the name of the people you are quoting before each quote. You’re mixing things posted by several people, and I’m a bit tired of people “accusing” me of saying something I never did, because they read some mangled quote in someone else’s message.

It’s not an “interpretation” at all, it’s what the linked message said, as anyone can see by clicking on link:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Please-fix-people-selling-dungeon-slots/page/5#post1162080

A dungeon run is not the same as a dungeon chest.

Again, poor interpretation. Conventional interpretation of “dungeon run” refers to the entire thing, i.e. “selling dungeon runs” would mean to run a dungeon then sell. The only time I can think of this wouldn’t apply are bads asking for money to teach people how to skip Lupicus, and even then, you’re not paying for a run, you’re paying to learn how to skip a boss then leaving. Just because you want to use a completely moronic interpretation of something doesn’t give you any more a leg to stand on.

You seem to have some rage issues.

And why would I (or anyone else) “kick path sellers” ? That doesn’t even make sense. I wouldn’t be in their party in the first place, because I would never pay to buy a path and I’d never try to sell one.

Think before “smashing” your keyboard.

You must be new here. Complaints about path selling in this subforum normally involves people getting upset about imagined exploits like “the stacking exploit” which involves luring mobs so you can cleave them down, better known as “common sense” or “logic” to people with brain cells or the “skipping boss exploit” where you run past a champion and it deaggros, because apparently ANet are too dumb to remove leashing mechanics and therefore it must be an exploit even though GW1 shows that they know how to make mobs not leash. For the record, Robert Hrouda said leashing was a conscious choice that they made when making dungeons.

If you think players who did not kill a single mob in a dungeon should get the dungeon completion chest, I suspect you’re in the minority.

Why not? They were present when the last objective was completed, why should they not receive the completion chest? Because you don’t like that competent players can offer the less skilled a service? Not everyone is as masochistic as us, they might not want to endure horrendous pugs to get tokens. Maybe they’re WvWers and don’t give a kitten about PvE so they just buy paths to get a nice weapon/armour skin. Suspect all you want, ANet is fine with it, the only people who complain are white knights who are going out of their way to get offended about something.

That was clearly also not Arena Net’s intention (otherwise they would make the tokens tradable).

If it wasn’t intended they’d have “fixed” it, like all of the other stealth fixes they make to dungeons or in their major dungeon revamp a little while ago. But they didn’t. So guess it was intended.

It’s simply an (exploitable) consequence of the changes introduced in dungeons a few months ago.

Completing an instance by yourself and selling slots is not an exploit. It’s called “I want to make money without boring myself to tears on champion farms”. But of course, the GW2 community hates any sign of player skill and so the white knights must come out in force to unleash holy justice on competence, wherever it dares to lurk.

Please include the name of the people you are quoting before each quote. You’re mixing things posted by several people, and I’m a bit tired of people “accusing” me of saying something I never did, because they read some mangled quote in someone else’s message.

If you can’t even remember what you wrote, then that’s your problem, not mine.

colesy.8490:

you want to use a completely moronic interpretation

You really have some rage issues.

colesy.8490:

Complaints about path selling in this subforum

There he goes again with the straw man…

“Path selling” (assuming you mean selling dungeon tokens to people who don’t actually participate in the dungeon) is, as I wrote, merely a consequence or result of the broken dungeon reward mechanics. And the same goes for the worthless achievements – they’re just a consequence.

Do I need to write (again…) that I think people are free to buy or sell whatever they want...?

Try a different straw man argument, at least.

colesy.8490:

where you run past a champion and it deaggros, […]

What does that have to do with anything I (or anyone else) wrote, in this thread…? You’re clearly angry about a lot of things and at a lot of people, but please try to stay on topic.

colesy.8490:

If you can’t even remember what you wrote, then that’s your problem, not mine.

Is that supposed to sound clever? I can remember what I wrote just fine; you’re the one (deliberately, as is now obvious) mixing quotes from different people to misrepresent what they said.

colesy.8490:

That was clearly also not Arena Net’s intention (otherwise they would make the tokens tradable).

If it wasn’t intended they’d have “fixed” it

Ahaha, you must work in user support. “Everything is working as intended, as demonstrated by the fact that it is the way it is.” Yeah, because there are absolutely no bugs or exploits in games…

I guess you’re just trolling, and I for one am done feeding you.

I like how the guy ignores the thread about the support ticket with the direct confirmation that this is alright, and continues to refer to only the other moderator post. gg strawman.

You don’t have to like it, and you can say they should change it— that’s your right. But these are the breaks: selling paths at the end is legal. Go convince Arenanet that your opinion is correct and that might change, I am sure they are looking forward to your feedback (not in these forums though, since they don’t read them ).

This OP…confirmation bias.

Hilarious

maxinion.8396:

selling paths at the end is legal.

Did I ever say that it wasn’t? Please try to reply to things I actually posted, and not to someone else’s made-up quotes.

maxinion.8396:

I like how the guy ignores the thread about the support ticket

That “support ticket” is from NCsoft’s German support. They didn’t design the game, Arena Net (in the US) did.

All the support techs can say is whether something is against the TOS or not (and no one suggested that it was). They cannot comment on game design issues (as they usually point out at the end of their e-mails).

The issue is whether Arena Net thinks dungeon tokens should be tradable or not (that’s effectively what “buying the last boss / chest” means – you’re buying dungeon tokens for gold).

If that is intended (and not considered an exploit by the game’s designers), then I would expect them to make the tokens tradable directly. Since they didn’t, their intentions are ambiguous.

In fact, I posted in the suggestions forum, proposing exactly that:

Instead of making players who just want tokens “buy” the last dungeon chest, Arena Net should simply allow players to sell that service directly (i.e., player A runs the dungeon and then sells the tokens to player B ).

That way, LFG can focus on people actually looking for a group to run dungeons (while, naturally, being perfectly free to pay for a guide, or to charge a fee to guide other people, whether in dungeons or any other game contant).

If you agree with the selling of dungeon tokens, please post in that thread.

I always give my arah paths away for free, its an outrage!! Free progress without playing the game!! Don’t you agree that the pay2win model at least requires you to p0000n it up FGJ! At the champ train420? Making dungeon tokens tradeable will ultimately devalue the paths as most players do it with the compensation of 3G/xp/frags in mind thus only for example actually end up paying 2G, your suggestion kills the sellers business and allows for easy competition. Dismissed