Guild Wars 2

I tend to enjoy playing all aspects of the game. I don’t have time for raids, but I have max masteries otherwise, I have the Ascension, I have like 30k WvW badges, 3 legendary weapons, and so on blah blah blah.

I don’t play fractals anymore because I’m not dealing with agony resistance. I put in my WvW infusions, I don’t want remove them, I don’t want to grind for higher AR, I don’t even want to deal with it. I don’t want different AR for different armor sets or different jewelry or on different characters, I have 9 characters with various armor sets… I’m just not doing it.

This is not a whine, it’s a “I am totally happy playing the game as is, I have no complaints, but I will never, ever, ever play fractals if there is AR” post. Maybe the devs that read this don’t care, maybe they have a different idea in mind.

I think AR as is is dumb, maybe others feel that way.

So what the puprose of this thread?

zealex.9410:

So what the puprose of this thread?

Did you read anything at all?

“I will never, ever, ever play fractals if there is AR”. Maybe the devs that read this don’t care, maybe they have a different idea in mind.

I think AR as is is dumb, maybe others feel that way."

Fluffball.8307:

zealex.9410:

So what the puprose of this thread?

Did you read anything at all?

“I will never, ever, ever play fractals if there is AR” post.* Maybe the devs that read this don’t care, maybe they have a different idea in mind.

I think AR as is is dumb, maybe others feel that way."

Ahh sorry i got lost in all the lines abou the sotry of your life, anyways thats fine not all content is for everyone fractals are content for those who like that gear progression system just toned down abit i understand if its not for everyone.

Ya a giant waste basically. Because someone needs to do this detrimental task they’re cutting out a huge audience. I believe even the devs admitted it’s bad design but they’re sort of in over their heads at this point and can’t really back out.

I don’t know if I’m a hardcore player, but every dev hour wasted on fractals could be spent on… etc.

I’m a lock for the next expac, but I don’t even care what the fractal devs come up with and that’s a shame.

Fluffball.8307:

Ya a giant waste basically. Because someone needs to do this detrimental task they’re cutting out a huge audience. I believe even the devs admitted it’s bad design but they’re sort of in over their heads at this point and can’t really back out.

I don’t know if I’m a hardcore player, but every dev hour wasted on fractals could be spent on… etc.

I’m a lock for the next expac, but I don’t even care what the fractal devs come up with and that’s a shame.

I dont think its fair to call it a failure nor a failure because a “huge audience” doesnt enjoy or do if not for fractals there wouldn’t be any reason for asc armor to exist in pve also fractals provide unique end game progression after asx armor in the form of atributed infusion. It also lets the balance with full asc sets in mind which provides even harder encounters.I think you underrestimate the amount of ppl that does them and u should understand that the hardest part to get into the is the actual asc armor and not the infusion esp after the rework on them they’v been great.

Fluffball.8307:

Ya a giant waste basically.

Maybe for you but not for the target audience which is playing fractals on a daily basis.

I’m sure they’re great. They could make the best fractal game in the entire world, I’m not going to delete my WvW infusions to stick in some arbitrary grind mechanic. And that’s fine. All I’m saying is my view point exists. How can you say I underestimate how many people do them when all I’m saying is the mechanic is terrible.

Vinceman.4572:

Maybe for you but not for the target audience which is playing fractals on a daily basis.

Neat. Great reading.

Edit: Just for clarity, I’ve done as high as like 80 something fractals. I will never do them again because of the gear requirements. It’s not a hatred of fractals as a dungeon, I enjoy dungeons.

tier 1 iirc is non ar requirements tier so theres that also from.your wvw gear u should have around 55 ar which is enough i think for some of the tier 2 as well as frac 4 which is great farm.

Fluffball.8307:

Neat. Great reading.

Edit: Just for clarity, I’ve done as high as like 80 something fractals. I will never do them again because of the gear requirements. It’s not a hatred of fractals as a dungeon, I enjoy dungeons.

Well, then do so. I love my fractals how they are and it’s rather a very very very small minority of players like you that don’t like and don’t play fractals with the actual agony system.
There is no need to change just because one single player is ranting in the forum.

Vinceman.4572:

There is no need to change just because one single
player is ranting in the forum.

Great. Thanks for your sharing your opinion. Don’t mind my ranting! Haha just ranting not making any sense.

I severely regret responding to my own thread…. jeez.

And we are back to:

zealex.9410:

So what’s the purpose of this thread?

Vinceman.4572:

And we are back to:

zealex.9410:

So what’s the purpose of this thread?

Sorry for sharing an opinion you don’t agree with, I’ll leave now.

no reason for unfriendly behaviour the issue is even tho you might talking about a part of the community you are not giving a good feedback suggestion other way or the conz of the existing system (possible highcost etc)

zealex.9410:

no reason for unfriendly behaviour the issue is even tho you might talking about a part of the community you are not giving a good feedback suggestion other way or the conz of the existing system (possible highcost etc)

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

Fluffball.8307:

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

Really? Just because a majority is content with the current situation after having experienced so too many revamps for fractals and a single player jumps in the forum complaining about it because he/she doesn’t want to put effort in special things?
Seriously…

Fluffball.8307:

zealex.9410:

no reason for unfriendly behaviour the issue is even tho you might talking about a part of the community you are not giving a good feedback suggestion other way or the conz of the existing system (possible highcost etc)

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

haha iv been low on sleep lately xD

Vinceman.4572:

Fluffball.8307:

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

Really? Just because a majority is content with the current situation after having experienced so too many revamps for fractals and a single player jumps in the forum complaining about it because he/she doesn’t want to put effort in special things?
Seriously…

And now you are attributing your own opinion to the “majority”.

Just so you know, most of the players i use to do fractals with would not be sorry to see AR go. The amount of people that actually like this mechanics is most probably really small.

It is annoying. It creates the situation where you run one character through fractals, because gearing up another one would be too much of a bother. And it doesn’t actually introduce anything meaningful. It’s just a grind for grind’s sake.

Astralporing.1957:

Vinceman.4572:

Fluffball.8307:

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

Really? Just because a majority is content with the current situation after having experienced so too many revamps for fractals and a single player jumps in the forum complaining about it because he/she doesn’t want to put effort in special things?
Seriously…

And now you are attributing your own opinion to the “majority”.

Just so you know, most of the players i use to do fractals with would not be sorry to see AR go. The amount of people that actually like this mechanics is most probably really small.

It is annoying. It creates the situation where you run one character through fractals, because gearing up another one would be too much of a bother. And it doesn’t actually introduce anything meaningful. It’s just a grind for grind’s sake.

it tends to happen passively while running your dailies you get ar and drops how do you thing i geared all my chars? And i didn’t even payed attention one day i said i want to gear up my guard and had the gear and the ar collecting dust.

On the one hand, I’m sympathetic with the OP’s situation: it’s a pain to swap gear and it makes me think twice about playing parts of the game.

However, here’s how the OP’s main comment reads to me:
“I don’t care how much I might enjoy fractals, I’m not going to visit them as long as it’s inconvenient for me.”

Which is fine; we all have our limits. I just don’t see why the OP expects anyone else (including ANet) to care.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Which is fine; we all have our limits. I just don’t see why the OP expects anyone else (including ANet) to care.

Anets entire goal was to remove unnecessary obstacles. AR is very unnecessary.
Do you find it fun? No of course you don’t. Then let’s get rid of it.

I don’t expect you to care that I don’t want to play fractals. All I’m doing is putting my reasons out there. I am really not whining, I love this game and play it nearly every day. Anet I think at least deserves to hear that some people don’t like this mechanic.

Fluffball.8307:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Which is fine; we all have our limits. I just don’t see why the OP expects anyone else (including ANet) to care.

Anets entire goal was to remove unnecessary obstacles. AR is very unnecessary.
Do you find it fun? No of course you don’t. Then let’s get rid of it.

I don’t expect you to care that I don’t want to play fractals. All I’m doing is putting my reasons out there. I am really not whining, I love this game and play it nearly every day. Anet I think at least deserves to hear that some people don’t like this mechanic.

You missed the point I was trying to convey: the rhetoric in the original post sounds as if someone is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

If you love the game and don’t see the value in AR as a method of gating players unfamiliar with fractal mechanics, then just make a suggestion. All the other words used are getting in the way.

For example: “I’d like to see agony infusions removed from the game. They create an unnecessary barrier for otherwise qualified players to participate.” (Bonus points for offering a replacement method of gating.)

That allows for back & forth discussion of the principles involved (is gating good for the game? is the infusion system the best way to accomplish it?), whereas the original statement sounds petulant (“until ANet changes its ways, I won’t change mine”).

Or put another way, I don’t care that you don’t want to play fractals, especially not as phrased in the original post. However, I do care that the existing system might be bad for the community and I’m willing to hear out an argument for how it could be better.

The OP sounds like someone who just wants the rewards from the high level fractals without putting in the effort to get the 150 ar so they can do their daily T4.

AR used to be a decent gate to make sure people got familiar with the mechanics, but these days is too easy getting ascended gear and far too easy to get 150ar. So now you have people doing t4 fracs who really don’t know the fractals when you pug them.

I doubt we will see any other kind of system put in place as the development time required could be spent on more important things.

If anet actually removed AR requirements from fractals it would turn T4 fractals into pure frustration for pug groups and there would be a lot of complaints about getting kicked and the whole toxic/elitist type stuff would become more pronounced.

AR “gating” (I’ve seen more severe gates) currently is probably the best of a lot of bad options to control access to high-level fractals. It_is_ a poor system and there’s nothing truly interesting about it, but some form of access control is necessary. There’s already too many people around in T4 who have absolutely no clue and for whom T1 would be the appropriate level, but I don’t want to imagine the toxicity resulting from an opening of the floodgates.

Muffin Nook.5923:

The OP sounds like someone who just wants the rewards from the high level fractals without putting in the effort to get the 150 ar so they can do their daily T4.

I’m not. I have more money than I need. I have all the legendaries and skins I want, I play for fun. AR is not fun, it’s annoying and unnecessary.

No idea how you got me wanting more rewards out of this…

zealex.9410:

it tends to happen passively while running your dailies you get ar and drops how do you thing i geared all my chars? And i didn’t even payed attention one day i said i want to gear up my guard and had the gear and the ar collecting dust.

It may not be a problem to a veteran that played a lot of fractals before, and doesn’t have many alts. It is extremely annoying to someone that is a more recent player. Or, to someone that has a lot of characters/builds, and likes to test them out.
Personally, i never have enough infusions around. The gold cost is also not so insignificant.

Also, while it may happen passively, it also takes a lot of time. As i said, it’s a grind just for a grind’s sake.

Fluffball.8307:

zealex.9410:

no reason for unfriendly behaviour the issue is even tho you might talking about a part of the community you are not giving a good feedback suggestion other way or the conz of the existing system (possible highcost etc)

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

To be fair, the existence of AR is a change from the original state of the game. You are the one stating that you do not care for a change.

On topic, I think that AR is an odd concept. Id much rather see content created to challenge one’s skill than one’s willingness to add infusions to on’s gear.

“I am totally happy playing the game as is, I have no complaints, but I will never, ever, ever play fractals if there is AR”

This is a complaint against the grind for AR. You are not completely happy about the state of the game—just everything except for AR in fractals. Why is there so much stigma against complaining?

My thoughts:

The difference between the LFGs in fractals and raids is due to the AR mechanic and difficulty scaling. Generally speaking, players with less experience will have to work up to T4 fractals, making the pool of T4 fractal puggers generally better. If you take away the AR mechanic, you’ll get a bunch of people who have no idea what they’re doing flooding into fractals. The LFG system will begin to even more like the one for raids in that people will have to specify if they’re doing training runs—else you’d better be exp’ed or you get kicked.

For a better LFG experience in fractals, I prefer having the AR grind.

Beyond a personal interest in the LFG tool, new comers also have the chance to learn the mechanics through pugging if there’s a tiered system. Tier 4 fractals are not easy when you first start out. They’re not even easy coming from tier 3s. Having an AR system allows for difficulty to be slowly introduced to the player, while maintaining that there will be players at each difficulty rating doing fractals. Without AR, there’s no reason for people to not just do the most rewarding content.

There’s also an easy way around the AR “grind”—just buy them.

AR costs ~10g for a +9. So for 150 AR—17 +9’s for easy math—you need 170g. With full fractal mastery, I AT LEAST make 15g in gold maybe 5g in materials on average doing the dailies for T4 fractals. That’s 20 gold a day. I’m not even counting the ascended chest drops. Buying a set pays off in nine days of dailies. If you’re good, they’ll take you under an hour—some times half an hour.

17 +5 power infusions add roughly 2% DPS in an ideal setting. To give a sense of the scale of that, infusions add 600 DPS to 30,000 DPS. If I didn’t have a set of 150 AR already, I’d drop those for AR in a heartbeat seeing how much money I make off fractals.

Back to OP, if you don’t care about rewards and aren’t willing to give up 2% DPS to experience another aspect of the game, then continue to not do fractals. It’s not like you can’t afford the AR as implied by your previous posts.

Personally, I did find the AR grind and working my way up to full AR rewarding, and I have guildies who refuse to take free +9s from me because they want to work their way up. Don’t assume no one enjoys it.

The above might be an explanation for the first character. It doesn’t explain however why do you need to grind ar for your second, third, fourth (etc) alt. It should be an accountwide system, not based on character gear.
And even then the lfg lockout is still a far better option than ar (because you can have AR for t4 without ever playing anything above t1. Or even without ever playing any fractal at all). Additionally, LFG lockout is also better because it allows you to play with static groups that know you and are making a meaningful choice to let you come along. AR lockout doesn’t offr any choice however. No matter how skilled or experienced you are, if you have no ar, you have no ar, and will be a liability to the group.

Astralporing.1957:

The above might be an explanation for the first character. It doesn’t explain however why do you need to grind ar for your second, third, fourth (etc) alt. It should be an accountwide system, not based on character gear.

I’d be happy if AR worked like MF. Just a slot on your hero tab that listed your account wide AR. I’d play that.

Edit: And this would also solve the problem that every time the meta changes or your party needs a different role you wouldn’t need a few thousand gold worth of new armor. For example I main ranger, and in T4 fractals there are at least 3 different ascended armor sets I could wear, berserker, viper, and magi/zealot. And maybe the next elite spec makes… I dunno, celestial or something become the meta.

Third Degree Ember.6430:

This is a complaint against the grind for AR. You are not completely happy about the state of the game—just everything except for AR in fractals. Why is there so much stigma against complaining?

Because I really don’t feel like I’m complaining. If others are happy with AR, then I don’t care if it is ever changed, but I think the devs should know they’re losing out on some “customers” by putting in arbitrary barriers that add nothing to the game. In the same way I don’t have time to raid, but I’m perfectly happy with them being in the game.

I also think AR is dumb, and would be happy to see it removed (or at least replaced with account wide mastery instead).

I love that in dungeons and raids I can swap to whatever character I want with no concern. AR is just restrictive for veteran players who tend to have more than one character.

Account-wide AR would be fantastic and would be a very welcome change. I would love to switch to my condi ranger when I PUG with another chrono, but gearing up another character is very much a pain.

I think that’s fair. It would have been nice if it had been designed as a mastery from the beginning, but it wasn’t and we are stuck with it.

You guys have been doing a good job making new fractals though which was desperately needed. So kudos, from my point of view you guys made the right choice to prioritize new fractals.

Just change agony infusions to consumable agony essences, and transform agony into a system like that of luck. Then ascended armor’s advantage could be the exclusive ability to extract runes without destroying the armor, using repurposed infusion extractors.

As for primary stat infusions, most of them can be refunded for the original prices. Those which were obtained through loot instead of vendors can include an extra compensation equal to the vendor ones of each stat. Aesthetic infusions could then be moved to the wardrobe, and become easier to equip/unequip too. Wardrobe auras would have a lot of gem store potential as well.

It’s not so hard, really. You’ll find other multiple similar suggestions all across the community.

Agony and infusions are a mistake, and the sooner you remove them the better. More of the same regarding aquabreathers, which should be transformed into a glider-like system.

Lonami.2987:

Just change agony infusions …

As for primary stat infusions, most of them can be refunded for the original prices. …

It’s not so hard, really. You’ll find other multiple similar suggestions all across the community.

A dev just got through saying that they spent time looking at it and have determined it is that hard, really.

• There are no “original prices” for primary stat infusions; people have bought them at a variety of values to their account.
• A lot of the same people who have multiple toons with AR+150 also have maxed-out luck, so converting to luck would be worse than useless; it would actually create an inventory management issue in addition to destroying value.

I’m not against the concept of making AR account wide. Neither do I see a way to do it that doesn’t involve distracting ANet from evolving the more interesting and parts of the game.

Astralporing.1957:

Vinceman.4572:

Fluffball.8307:

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

Really? Just because a majority is content with the current situation after having experienced so too many revamps for fractals and a single player jumps in the forum complaining about it because he/she doesn’t want to put effort in special things?
Seriously…

And now you are attributing your own opinion to the “majority”.

Just so you know, most of the players i use to do fractals with would not be sorry to see AR go. The amount of people that actually like this mechanics is most probably really small.

It is annoying. It creates the situation where you run one character through fractals, because gearing up another one would be too much of a bother. And it doesn’t actually introduce anything meaningful. It’s just a grind for grind’s sake.

I like the idea of AR a lot. Its a really awesome concept where you have to progress your character in order to survive jumping through the mists, but I agree that the implementation can sometimes be annoying.

That said I don’t know if I could agree with removing AR entirely, but it would be nice if it was somehow made easier to get AR on your toons once you have reached certain milestones on 1 character. Say once you have a character with +100 AR, the infusions from the vendor only require 75% as many +1 infusions to purchase, and once you have a character that has +150 AR, the infusions from the vendor only require 50% of the original +1 AR to purchase? That’s just off the top of my head, but something along those lines, where you build 1 character up to 150 AR and it makes it easier to build up others, would be much appreciated. It would make it easier for players to gear up more than 1 character to do fractals, especially if they are different weight classes (since that would make gear swapping impossible, and swapping your infusions every time you wanted to do fractals would get expensive quick).

I think that the existing AR mechanism has become so entrenched as a gear-based concept that it will be difficult to significantly modify it. But I do think the concept of Agony is a bit redundant as a difficulty mechanic — there are already difficulty increases and more mistlock instabilities as levels increase.

I guess my point is there isn’t going to be a one-size-fits-all solution — for AR or anything else — which is why it’s good that there are options. For example, for myself and many of my guildmates, we really don’t care for the recent changes to Swamp and Thaumanova. The increase in mechanics complexity and duration are things that we just don’t want to bother with — so we just don’t do those fractals anymore. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t good changes, since there are very likely many people that really enjoy them. We really like Chaos and Nightmare, so we do those more often now.

So if AR is something that someone doesn’t want to bother with, there is still a group of fractals that satisfy that requirement. But I think that it’s a valid point that there’s someone out there that doesn’t care for having to deal with AR, just like there are folks like me who don’t want to deal with certain individual fractals. As long as we’re given a selection to choose from, I think Anet is doing a reasonably good job of trying to offer a spectrum of things to satisfy as many people as possible. But in the end, identifying these different points of view to Anet can only help them better evaluate future changes.

Just my 2 cents.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

• There are no “original prices” for primary stat infusions; people have bought them at a variety of values to their account.
• A lot of the same people who have multiple toons with AR+150 also have maxed-out luck, so converting to luck would be worse than useless; it would actually create an inventory management issue in addition to destroying value.

Original prices are vendor prices. Even if you bought them with coin, those original material prices are still the same. +3 infusion will always be x2 +2 infusion and x4 +1 infusion.

Also, I suggested using something like luck, as in a system example, not converting it to luck. Editing it to make the point clear.

Lonami.2987:

Just change agony infusions to consumable agony essences, and transform agony into a system like that of luck. Then ascended armor’s advantage could be the exclusive ability to extract runes without destroying the armor, using repurposed infusion extractors.

As for primary stat infusions, most of them can be refunded for the original prices. Those which were obtained through loot instead of vendors can include an extra compensation equal to the vendor ones of each stat. Aesthetic infusions could then be moved to the wardrobe, and become easier to equip/unequip too. Wardrobe auras would have a lot of gem store potential as well.

It’s not so hard, really. You’ll find other multiple similar suggestions all across the community.

Agony and infusions are a mistake, and the sooner you remove them the better. More of the same regarding aquabreathers, which should be transformed into a glider-like system.

To call this proposal an oversimplification, would itself be not nearly as grand an oversimplification.

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

We did at one point explore the possibility of account bound AR, but in the end decided on simplifying the agony system (back when we simplified infusions) rather than doing a huge system change.

A larger system change would have taken many resources away from actually building content, and would have caused other problems. Like.. what happens to agony infusions? All those infusions on the market suddenly either become worthless, or need some other reason to be consumed. Additionally, what would the effect be on ascended gear? Would you need ascended gear still? What happens to demand?

Ideally we would have designed the system as account bound in the first place, but that is not the reality we live in.

Unfortunately, at this point I do not see a switch to account bound AR any time in our future

Mechanically it could work like essence of luck/magic find.
the potions would be hilariously OP at 300 AR mind you..

edit: someone beat me to that idea.

& I’d agree that atm it’s not worth the time/effort to change it.

Content > system reworks.
We ( as a player base) are desperately hungry for more content

Never understand some people… maybe being poor growing up made you look at things differently to the modern generations…
I have many characters but as I only play one at a time and love playing Pve and WvW and am very happy that its quite easy to have a character play well in both wearing the same gear…
So i only made one of each (light, med and heavy) Ascended gear and made one of each type, or two when a weapon came be played in both hands, ascended weapon…
But I also like to play Fractuls… But I do not change any armor or weapons as with all the available accessories available from the new areas I just load a set up with AR…. If you attune and infuse a ring you have three slots… Running 12 (10’s are really easy and cheap to get/make but as time has gone on I am slowly upggradeing them) at the moment so thats 12 × 6 = 72AR on just the rings…
Takes seconds to change from WvW to Fractul accessories…
So where is the problem…
Personally I love the fact that AR, and other similar items, exsists… As it sorts those who really enjoy that particular area of GW2 and learn how to play it properly at max levels, where the challange is realy a challenge…
I enjoy playing up to, about, level 65 and will spend many years enjoying Fractuls without a thought of “must collect/complete everything but its so hard why cant they make it easier… just for me, cause I’m important”
Never was a “gamer” before as it was all “follow this to do that and MUST keep getting bigger weapons”
But LOVE GW2 because you can set up a character and play pretty much anywhere… some areas you die a bit more often but “free to repair” means you dont care if you die 5 times before the bad guy does…
But do learn that this game is built so that there is more than one way to do something/get somewhere…
To say “I’m not playing fractuls as long as there is AR” just smacks of premadonna footballers who dive when another player comes near them…

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

We did at one point explore the possibility of account bound AR, but in the end decided on simplifying the agony system (back when we simplified infusions) rather than doing a huge system change.

A larger system change would have taken many resources away from actually building content, and would have caused other problems. Like.. what happens to agony infusions? All those infusions on the market suddenly either become worthless, or need some other reason to be consumed. Additionally, what would the effect be on ascended gear? Would you need ascended gear still? What happens to demand?

Ideally we would have designed the system as account bound in the first place, but that is not the reality we live in.

Unfortunately, at this point I do not see a switch to account bound AR any time in our future

The resource budget needed for an AR overhaul might not be worth it, I agree.

But what if Anet gathers a team to overhaul not only the AR system, but also the sigil/ rune systems? Many players have also expressed their problems and wishes with the more traditional means of upgrading (examples: demand for ascended runes/ sigils, the poor synergy between the rune system and the stat-swapping system for legendary armor, the useless minor and major ugrades that clutter the inventory whenever you mass salvage green items). So, unifying them all under a new, modern technology might be worthier of Anet’s resources, no?

In other words, kill 3 birds with 1 stone.

OriOri.8724:

Astralporing.1957:

Vinceman.4572:

Fluffball.8307:

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

Really? Just because a majority is content with the current situation after having experienced so too many revamps for fractals and a single player jumps in the forum complaining about it because he/she doesn’t want to put effort in special things?
Seriously…

And now you are attributing your own opinion to the “majority”.

Just so you know, most of the players i use to do fractals with would not be sorry to see AR go. The amount of people that actually like this mechanics is most probably really small.

It is annoying. It creates the situation where you run one character through fractals, because gearing up another one would be too much of a bother. And it doesn’t actually introduce anything meaningful. It’s just a grind for grind’s sake.

I like the idea of AR a lot. Its a really awesome concept where you have to progress your character in order to survive jumping through the mists, but I agree that the implementation can sometimes be annoying.

That said I don’t know if I could agree with removing AR entirely, but it would be nice if it was somehow made easier to get AR on your toons once you have reached certain milestones on 1 character. Say once you have a character with +100 AR, the infusions from the vendor only require 75% as many +1 infusions to purchase, and once you have a character that has +150 AR, the infusions from the vendor only require 50% of the original +1 AR to purchase? That’s just off the top of my head, but something along those lines, where you build 1 character up to 150 AR and it makes it easier to build up others, would be much appreciated. It would make it easier for players to gear up more than 1 character to do fractals, especially if they are different weight classes (since that would make gear swapping impossible, and swapping your infusions every time you wanted to do fractals would get expensive quick).

Maybe just something as simple as changing +1 infusion drops from higher fractal tiers to +2, +3, +4 (accordingly to tier). I remember, that it was supposed to be like that, actually, when those infusions were first introduced, but Anet never followed on that.

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

We did at one point explore the possibility of account bound AR, but in the end decided on simplifying the agony system (back when we simplified infusions) rather than doing a huge system change.

A larger system change would have taken many resources away from actually building content, and would have caused other problems. Like.. what happens to agony infusions? All those infusions on the market suddenly either become worthless, or need some other reason to be consumed. Additionally, what would the effect be on ascended gear? Would you need ascended gear still? What happens to demand?

Ideally we would have designed the system as account bound in the first place, but that is not the reality we live in.

Unfortunately, at this point I do not see a switch to account bound AR any time in our future

Why does the economy take over game design decisions?

Economy should never trump gameplay.

Fact is, the current system is an immense pain in the kitten and goldsink to manage not only inventory and ascended trinket swapping.

People would still need ascended gear because the output difference of full ascended vs exotic is 10%+.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

• There are no “original prices” for primary stat infusions; people have bought them at a variety of values to their account.
• A lot of the same people who have multiple toons with AR+150 also have maxed-out luck, so converting to luck would be worse than useless; it would actually create an inventory management issue in addition to destroying value.

Lonami.2987:

Original prices are vendor prices. Even if you bought them with coin, those original material prices are still the same. +3 infusion will always be x2 +2 infusion and x4 +1 infusion.

There are no “original prices” for AR+1 infusions. The market price of any AR+x infusion is based on the cost to make them, which is identical whether crafted or purchased from a vendor. 50% of the components are thermocatlytic reagents with a fixed vendor price; the other half is AR+1, which has a market price. At current prices, basic infusions amount to ~50% of the cost of AR+7|8|9|10|11 infusions.

In other words, there’s no “original price” for infusions; it’s all market price and, under your proposal, AR+1 would cease to have value.

Lonami.2987:

Also, I suggested using something like luck, as in a system example, not converting it to luck. Editing it to make the point clear.

I don’t think you realize just how many AR+1 would be introduced to the game by swapping to account bound AR. QT’s recommended arrangement (twelve AR+9, eight AR+7) requires over 2,800 AR+1 and over 2,800 thermo-cat — that’s over 100g worth of value (~50 from AR, ~50 from themo-cat, not including any alt weapons.

Let’s assume for the moment that there is anything that ANet can offer for the agony that would satisfy people with multiple toons geared with AR+150, that’s still 50g per toon per person from the thermo-cat alone. What do you think that’s going to do to market prices on, oh, everything else? And just wait for the whining from those who don’t own excess AR, when they find they can’t compete on prices from the suddenly (ahem) infusion of gold.

tl;dr no, it’s not that simple.

Hey Fluffball. Totally agree with you here. I’m really loving the game since headstart but up untill this point I’ve only ever put 10AR on 1 or 2 trinkets, ever. I think AR is overly complicated, even now. I can’t get myself to figure out how many +1’s I need to get a total of 149 or something AR. I know there are ppl who wrote it down somewhere but then still. Why is it that way? You need +9’s and +7’s together or something to get maxed out AR. Weird numbers. It needs relatively too much of my attention and time to figure out how I put enough AR on my characaters to play fractals.
In these last 5 years I think I’ve thought like 100 times to look into AR, put it on my gear and start playing fractals and every time I think “naaahh, too much work, I’ll just clear some more raids again but on a different toon, do wvw or a meta-event”

Then again, the logic off what the dev says makes sence to me too

When you have 9 armors with wvw infusions and not willing to use one armor for
Agony just stay in wvw….

And when you dont have enough +1 to craft the 150 for your armor dont play t4 fraks, you will need people who carry you, practice the lower one.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

• There are no “original prices” for primary stat infusions; people have bought them at a variety of values to their account.
• A lot of the same people who have multiple toons with AR+150 also have maxed-out luck, so converting to luck would be worse than useless; it would actually create an inventory management issue in addition to destroying value.

Lonami.2987:

Original prices are vendor prices. Even if you bought them with coin, those original material prices are still the same. +3 infusion will always be x2 +2 infusion and x4 +1 infusion.

There are no “original prices” for AR+1 infusions. The market price of any AR+x infusion is based on the cost to make them, which is identical whether crafted or purchased from a vendor. 50% of the components are thermocatlytic reagents with a fixed vendor price; the other half is AR+1, which has a market price. At current prices, basic infusions amount to ~50% of the cost of AR+7|8|9|10|11 infusions.

In other words, there’s no “original price” for infusions; it’s all market price and, under your proposal, AR+1 would cease to have value.

Lonami.2987:

Also, I suggested using something like luck, as in a system example, not converting it to luck. Editing it to make the point clear.

I don’t think you realize just how many AR+1 would be introduced to the game by swapping to account bound AR. QT’s recommended arrangement (twelve AR+9, eight AR+7) requires over 2,800 AR+1 and over 2,800 thermo-cat — that’s over 100g worth of value (~50 from AR, ~50 from themo-cat, not including any alt weapons.

Let’s assume for the moment that there is anything that ANet can offer for the agony that would satisfy people with multiple toons geared with AR+150, that’s still 50g per toon per person from the thermo-cat alone. What do you think that’s going to do to market prices on, oh, everything else? And just wait for the whining from those who don’t own excess AR, when they find they can’t compete on prices from the suddenly (ahem) infusion of gold.

tl;dr no, it’s not that simple.

I think you missed my entire point where +1 agony infusions would be used for a luck-like system of accountbound agony progression.

OriOri.8724:

Astralporing.1957:

Vinceman.4572:

Fluffball.8307:

What??? Is that english?

Also I am not being unfriendly, the people that are being unfriendly are the people that think change is bad.

Really? Just because a majority is content with the current situation after having experienced so too many revamps for fractals and a single player jumps in the forum complaining about it because he/she doesn’t want to put effort in special things?
Seriously…

And now you are attributing your own opinion to the “majority”.

Just so you know, most of the players i use to do fractals with would not be sorry to see AR go. The amount of people that actually like this mechanics is most probably really small.

It is annoying. It creates the situation where you run one character through fractals, because gearing up another one would be too much of a bother. And it doesn’t actually introduce anything meaningful. It’s just a grind for grind’s sake.

I like the idea of AR a lot. Its a really awesome concept where you have to progress your character in order to survive jumping through the mists, but I agree that the implementation can sometimes be annoying.

That said I don’t know if I could agree with removing AR entirely, but it would be nice if it was somehow made easier to get AR on your toons once you have reached certain milestones on 1 character. Say once you have a character with +100 AR, the infusions from the vendor only require 75% as many +1 infusions to purchase, and once you have a character that has +150 AR, the infusions from the vendor only require 50% of the original +1 AR to purchase? That’s just off the top of my head, but something along those lines, where you build 1 character up to 150 AR and it makes it easier to build up others, would be much appreciated. It would make it easier for players to gear up more than 1 character to do fractals, especially if they are different weight classes (since that would make gear swapping impossible, and swapping your infusions every time you wanted to do fractals would get expensive quick).

hire this person or simply do what he/she/it suggests i’d change it tho to instead of your main’s ar to max fractal lvl like "a 50% discount to +1s or w/e for chars that have fully cleared all 100 lvls