Guild Wars 2

Hello everbody,

I think there is another bug in magg’s chain.
I am a elementalist and today i looked for a group for a CoF exp mode.
So, the guys in my group told me to use the skill glyph of renewal in magg with the abillity air active.
so how it works:
Let Magg die and them use glyph of renewal 3 times to take him further as you can of the mob’s. And them wait, so is not necessary kill the mobs.
…

Hope u can fix that Arena.net

ty

It’s sad that people just can’t do the dungeons without trying to find the laziest ways to bypass the content. I can’t tell you how many PuGs I’ve been in who want to run pass 90% of the trash packs, while my group of friends just blow through them.

Need to take leashing off in dungeons or something.

I’m sorry but how is using the glyph of renewal on Magg an exploit?

Figment.9356:

Need to take leashing off in dungeons or something.

Yes they really do, it would alleviate alot of issues, particularly the time it takes to complete a dungeon which seems to be bothering a-net alot lately…….is it really a hard thing to do?

Also I saw today that you can STILL jump through the last gate in the Magg path and attack the crystal. This time acolytes do not even spawn. However you do still need to do the part where you protect magg to get the last 2 chests to spawn.

It’s also worth noting that last I checked, Glyph of Renewal could bring back FULLY dead players.

Haku.5068:

It’s also worth noting that last I checked, Glyph of Renewal could bring back FULLY dead players.

I believe that is the point.

As for the person who asked how it’s an exploit.

While in air attunement using glyph of renewal teleports the dead person to your location (and revives them) thus you can move magg out of the room.

My suggestion to anet is simply to change the effect of the air attuned glyph of renewal. Maybe I dunno, give the revived person a 50% chance to dodge attacks for 10 seconds after being revived or something. That would fix this exploit.

Muramasa.7049:

I’m sorry but how is using the glyph of renewal on Magg an exploit?

well from what i understand as i havent seen this in action.

Glyph of Renewal in Air will ressurect a target at your position, so it means they use it to pull magg’s body away from the area where the enemies spawn so he never gets hit and you wont even bother having to defend him.

You can fix this exploit by just making magg immune to the revive spell..But that’s not the case..we all, or atleast, Anet must start asking themself…“Why is people exploiting, what part of the dungeon is not correct..”

To many silver mobs spawns to fast..No group can make that alive, while protecting Magg..so the only way is to kite the mobs, and when you do that, you will die..which gives you repair bills…not because you did a mistake, or not because your unskilled..just because this part of the dungeon dosn’t make sense..
And like I said before, the rewards are just to low to even bother doing the whole thing..I do understand why my server is exploiting this..People won’t even ask me if I wanna exploit or not..They just ask..“Your a ele, we need your renewal, wanna join?”..

I would suggest, to make magg immune to revive spell, and please Anet, block the gate..people are still going through..

Sadly enough I can somewhat understand why people tend to think of tricks like these. I can also understand the people with a steady versatile group don´t see this as a problem. PUGs and groups that are quickly setup however do have a problem with this usually cause the right combination of classes isn’t there nor TS/Ventrilo communication.

Instead of “nerfing” the difficulty as some like to call a single event in the entire CoF dungeon bring the overall difficulty up a bit and lower the difficulty of the bomb door. We’re all aware that it’s an easy ride to the door and that’s where everyone hits the break and gets stuck for hours if they don’t have the people that can stay up long enough to survive.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

The fix is simply to have Magg run back to the door.

In general, people will do whatever they can when they are backed into a corner. It’s just part of what humans do when faced with adversity – we use our intellect, creativity, and ingenuity to find solutions to problems. That event is incredibly difficult, and it’s not shocking that players will use whatever tools and techniques they can to get through it.

As a dev, there is a brief moment when I hear about an exploit and think to myself “Clever. Wish I’d have thought of that.” before I enter fix-it mode. I’m more upset at my failure to anticipate an exploit than I am about the person who finds it.

If dungeons weren’t so under-rewarding, tedious, hard and annoying(yes, I’m looking at you Arah), these things wouldn’t be an issue. As it is, people camp AC and TA explorable because they’re the easiest ones, whilst Arah is dead or nigh impossible for PUGs, not only because of its difficulty but because of its immense length, with CoF and CoE being somewhere in the middle.

Yep, some players are heavily talented to find bugs and anomalies, using sometimes method worked succesfully (until immediately fixed) on other MMOs

or, make the stupid event reasonable to do… its not like you can fight 50 silver vets that can easly aoe burst for 12k+ EACH

I’d rather see you fixing the boss heal bug on CoF path 1 before going after the exploits, because if the dungeons were truly a fun people wouldn’t need such a trickery.

Just my 2 cents

There is actually another way to exploit the lava event.

You have four people including whoever magg is currently following stand at the start away from any enemies while one person runs through and makes it to the magmacyte. Once he makes it there the four person group then waypoints to the beginning of the dungeon forcing magg to teleport to the single person standing at the magmacyte, event completed.

Really hope that in the future ANet does much more thorough testing of their dungeons.

Robert,

Is running past mobs like in twilight arbor considered to be an exploit if you’re not cheating them by bugs etc? If it is then maybe there should be an In-game MOTD for things like this to let players know.

Most every group I have ever pugged has wanted to run past certain trash mob packs to make the clear time faster. And no offense to game design, but honestly less boring. (Most people from what I have observed don’t generally enjoy clearing trash if they don’t have to.)

If this is considered exploiting I definitely was not aware. Things like jumping over holes in the wall to skip content is a lot more clear cut that it is not intended. I personally consider the running past trash or kiting to be an alternate way to progress as the trash does leash an there is not a clear obstacle to progression that opens up after the trash dies.

Feel free to PM me if needed and remove this post if needed.

Well the Magg revival exploit was an incredibly smart idea(lightball!). I ‘ve tried to convince myself for a long time that it’s not, although I knew it is. (Having used it for a similar purpose in my PS, when enemy attack waves bugged and became infinite, made it easier) Hell, thats what our skill is doing, right? Anyway everyone will keep doing it: no point running path 2 with DR on, if you are doing it without res exploit, you will just loose money. Especially if you are a low survivability profession like myself.

Silverghost.4192:

Robert,

Is running past mobs like in twilight arbor considered to be an exploit if you’re not cheating them by bugs etc? If it is then maybe there should be an In-game MOTD for things like this to let players know.

Most every group I have ever pugged has wanted to run past certain trash mob packs to make the clear time faster. And no offense to game design, but honestly less boring. (Most people from what I have observed don’t generally enjoy clearing trash if they don’t have to.)

If this is considered exploiting I definitely was not aware. Things like jumping over holes in the wall to skip content is a lot more clear cut that it is not intended. I personally consider the running past trash or kiting to be an alternate way to progress as the trash does leash an there is not a clear obstacle to progression that opens up after the trash dies.

Feel free to PM me if needed and remove this post if needed.

What you described is the exact reason because they put 30 minutes, planning 45 minutes, as a minimal time to complete a dungeon and get full rewards.
As you see, they fixed it yet, and improving to make dungeons longer.
So at the end, skip trash to make the run faster, will not worth anymore.

Well it will be, if you are not planning to do more runs instantly, then DR won’t take effect.

Just add 10 tokens for all trash or most trash (within a threshold) killed by the time the last boss is killed. Adds incentive to clear trash and makes the dungeon longer.

so that is why i always found full COF armor users and play on AC EM and still sucks, die a lot, and complaining along the way about kholer, burrows being impossible to finish….

they acquire those armors with exploits instead of pure skills that demands them to think to come up with solutions to brinf down mobs rather than to “bypass” it…

People would be far more inclined to kill their way to the magmacite(sp?) as Anet intended if the mobs didn’t respawn so fast and if magg wasn’t an absolute waste of mental capacity. Running back through fire pools to restart where he first agroed mobs is annoying not something i see an asuran genius doing.

i’m just curious, I allways discourage my teams from doing exploits.. I explain that it’s because of those stunts that BS like the DR is in place. but sometimes i can’t stop them from doing stuff like jumping through the gates. I don’t go with them when they do so, and on occasion through hassling them about it they’ve decided not to do it at all. But when they do something like that and clear the boss, then come back and kite the room with me to then open the gate and instantly be finished… does that count as exploiting on my part? i’ve just ran the brunt of the dungeon and don’t want to have to leave the team to be 100% sure i’m fine. but if i refuse to take part is it still in someway my fault? they seem very naive and carefree and try to justify it with talk like “They’d have to ban half the population if people got in trouble for this”…

If you feel yourself uncomfortable helping an exploit, just sit, let them do it.
Regardless of the ban thingy.
And report the exploit with details of the execution. Sooner or later, their fun will finish and exploit removed

Robert Hrouda.1327:

The fix is simply to have Magg run back to the door.

In general, people will do whatever they can when they are backed into a corner. It’s just part of what humans do when faced with adversity – we use our intellect, creativity, and ingenuity to find solutions to problems. That event is incredibly difficult, and it’s not shocking that players will use whatever tools and techniques they can to get through it.

As a dev, there is a brief moment when I hear about an exploit and think to myself “Clever. Wish I’d have thought of that.” before I enter fix-it mode. I’m more upset at my failure to anticipate an exploit than I am about the person who finds it.

So Mr. Hrouda, will you guys get around to fixing the protect magg event because as it stands now its impossible to kite that many mobs and not die all the time unless you have a group of warriors or w/e.

its not that hard to kite for 3 mins…why do you have all of your people in there dying at the same time?

Maybe because a dungeon that’s based upon dying over and over and just WP running is BS…
I mean if you HAVE to die over and over and “graveyard run” as everyone calls it now since its so common in GW2 dungeons, then something HAS to be wrong with it…

And the glyph exploit, i mean the glyph has like what?.. 2/3 min cooldown? i m not on my Ele but if the OP said its 3 times that’s 6 to 9 minutes waiting which is 2 to 3 times more than kiting so …if you ask me, the way things are now i would rather take that boring part instead of paying 20 silvers on repairs from a fairly bad designed dungeon part…

@Zeh, agree. The bomb part can be unbelievably annoying when you only have a short amount on time to spend playing the game.

The fact that so many players are choosing to opt-out of that particular part of the dungeon shows that that part has major flaws. Before the timer increase, the only problem was people just all went in at once, now it’s in groups of twos.

But remember, at that part of the dungeon, you are not supposed to kite. Apparently it is possible (although I have never seen it happen, but it may be) to dps the mobs down. Never found a party willing to try it, pub’s or guildies. The fact that the kiting takes place, and people trying to find new exploits, shows that people cannot think of any alternative solutions.

@Noxinecrotic You can’t find a party to do it because it is bloody impossible. Squishy classes get one or two shot from many of the mobs in that room. Hell, the first smokelord and his buddies can wipe a party, and it is supposedly possible to kill everything? No.

Do you hear that? Here inevitably comes someone who claims their guild can do it easily and that I and many other just suck or aren’t doing our homework! kitten

I did the dungeon with my guild mates and on ventrilo the first time before all the patches.
what i can say from personal experience is that the way it was back then we could actually kill/kite all the mobs with relatively ease ( read, we died a couple times and had to run back, but i blame those deaths on being new to the game/dungeon) then they changed something in which we could no longer kill the mobs, they spawned to fast and with crazy damage, so we kited, since it was only 1 minute we could kite and do it with relatively low death counts ( now i blame them 50/50 part being a newbie at that difficulty, and the other part being a bit to “challenging”). now the duration is 3 minutes or so , thats just kitten #8230; we cant kill the mobs, we cant kite them and not die alot of times and keep running back to keep magg alive.

You ll have to pardon my English, but with all this i m not saying that we didn’t explore all options.
We tried having 1 substitute outside to “tag” when someone was out of dodges/escapes, we tried it in groups, we even brought specific classes aka guardians to make it easier (which is something Anet said that would never be needed with the abolition of the holy trinity)
IMO the way that part is atm is not challenging is just plain dumb, as a dark souls player i love the challenge in games, but what i see there isn’t challenge is just something badly designed… :\

Actually made a thread about this, but I just got kicked from a group when I saw them jump through the gate and said something about it. This is exactly how it happened:

group jumps through gate
Me: I thought Anet fixed this.
Me: Really guys?
kicked from group

Just that fast. And now I have no tokens to show for it. Just because I did not want to exploit.

Robert Hrouda have you killed those mobs spawns in that room successively in a well organized pug (without voice communication)?

Just curious if you guys play with other players in game instead of in house at ArenaNet.

Those packs are simply WAAAYYYY too overpowered.

And like a poster said in this thread " If these events/dungeons weren’t so buggy/hard we wouldn’t need exploits to do them".

Then I thought about running dungeons in other MMO’s like LotRO, SWTOR, Rift, and WoW. I never ONCE thought of doing an exploit or been in a group that kept doing exploits just to get past something.

I think that is very odd that all of a sudden people have to do it in this game. It is not working ArenaNet!!

MrLee.6892:

Robert Hrouda have you killed those mobs spawns in that room successively in a well organized pug (without voice communication)?

Just curious if you guys play with other players in game instead of in house at ArenaNet.

Those packs are simply WAAAYYYY too overpowered.

And like a poster said in this thread " If these events/dungeons weren’t so buggy/hard we wouldn’t need exploits to do them".

Then I thought about running dungeons in other MMO’s like LotRO, SWTOR, Rift, and WoW. I never ONCE thought of doing an exploit or been in a group that kept doing exploits just to get past something.

I think that is very odd that all of a sudden people have to do it in this game. It is not working ArenaNet!!

just an FYI, that room doesn’t have to be exploited. I haven’t had a single PuG for whom kiteing under my instructions hasn’t worked. sometimes we get it in one go, sometimes it takes 4-5 attempts… but never left that dungeon without having completed it fairly bar one exception where the group were full of themself, and in a hurry to be endgame Leetsters standing around geared up without having played much of the game to get there – with them they rez’d mag out the way without even trying the kite first. I’ve even done it with mostly light armored players and 2 of us medium geared. However, that’s still not the way it’s meant to be. it’s obvious from the shape of the room and allocated space, the fact you have to try buy magg some time.. that it’s intended to be like one of those wave after wave survival things where we’re supposed to hold them off using combat. it’s far too hard to be done THAT way, but it can still be done without cheating. They are well aware of the difficulty of that room though… I think they intend to fix this soon (hopefully).

Hayden.7920:

MrLee.6892:

Robert Hrouda have you killed those mobs spawns in that room successively in a well organized pug (without voice communication)?

Just curious if you guys play with other players in game instead of in house at ArenaNet.

Those packs are simply WAAAYYYY too overpowered.

And like a poster said in this thread " If these events/dungeons weren’t so buggy/hard we wouldn’t need exploits to do them".

Then I thought about running dungeons in other MMO’s like LotRO, SWTOR, Rift, and WoW. I never ONCE thought of doing an exploit or been in a group that kept doing exploits just to get past something.

I think that is very odd that all of a sudden people have to do it in this game. It is not working ArenaNet!!

just an FYI, that room doesn’t have to be exploited. I haven’t had a single PuG for whom kiteing under my instructions hasn’t worked. sometimes we get it in one go, sometimes it takes 4-5 attempts… but never left that dungeon without having completed it fairly bar one exception where the group were full of themself, and in a hurry to be endgame Leetsters standing around geared up without having played much of the game to get there – with them they rez’d mag out the way without even trying the kite first. I’ve even done it with mostly light armored players and 2 of us medium geared. However, that’s still not the way it’s meant to be. it’s obvious from the shape of the room and allocated space, the fact you have to try buy magg some time.. that it’s intended to be like one of those wave after wave survival things where we’re supposed to hold them off using combat. it’s far too hard to be done THAT way, but it can still be done without cheating. They are well aware of the difficulty of that room though… I think they intend to fix this soon (hopefully).

Now, some insight into “my instructions” would be helpful.

@Strifer it’s really just a more elaborate take on the 2 in method. I organise the 5 of us into “team 1” consisting of 2 players, “team 2” consisting of 2 players, and if there’s a guardian available they are “team 3” solo. Otherwise – i’ll explain when i get to it. The 2 players in team one are assigned a replacement from team two. Say player ‘A’ and player ‘B’ are team 1, Player ‘C’ and player ‘D’ are team 2. Player ‘A’ is assigned ‘C’ as their substitute, and ‘B’ is assigned D. player A and B begin by talking to Magg, and kiteing as best as they can for as long as possible. When ‘A’ get’s downed, they call ‘down’ or just the letter ‘d’ to signal the substitution, and ‘C’ runs in to replace ‘A’. it doesn’t matter who goes down first on either team. If ‘B’ dies first, ‘D’ will be in before ‘C’. The reason i say to run in before they are properly dead is that while they are downed, they still hold some mob attention and that makes it easier for the substitute to get into a comfortable place. it also means that there wont be a few seconds where they turn on Magg. if player 5, who we’ll call ‘E’ is a guardian, they will observe and wait until either ‘C’ or ‘D’ is dead, and the other one just a couple seconds from going down. They run in, and any good guardian from what i’ve seen can take alot of damage and usually buy a good 10-20 seconds or longer. if player ‘E was infact a guardian, then player ’A’ and ‘B’ should easily be ready by the time ‘E’ is almost defeated, at which point the two of them run in and the cycle continues. if ‘E’ was a less bulky class due to no guardian being available, they simply observe both ‘C’ and ‘D’, and run in to replace who ever gets downed first. if this happens, ‘A’ and ‘B’ still have plenty of time to get back. and just say for example, C dies, and E is in with D – it is the duty of ‘A’ and ‘B’ to observe and wait till either one is dead and the other is on around 30% health or seconds from a few fatal hits. then they go back in and the cycle continues. that pattern usually holds for an average of 2 cycles, it can be broken sooner and it can be held longer… but when it does get broken, that doesn’t matter, just play it like the less constructed any 2 players in angle. by that time, you would have bought enough time that it doesn’t matter so much. around 80% you’ll probably just be running back constantly as they will be far greater in numbers and harder to kite. forget all order at that point and just keep going for it like lemmings, that’s usually sufficient enough to get the last 20%.

Thought I read a dev post that the whole strategy to the room was to NOT kite and to kill the mobs? Thats why the added more time to it?

Am I wrong?

So it’s a thinly veiled death zerg. Nice tactic.

@MrLee i replied to you just before that and explained. you’re not wrong, it is definately meant to be a fight where you hold off as long as possible… but whether you’re attacking or just surviving… that’s atleast honest and not simply taking avantage of cracks in the design.

@spreadhseets if you’ve got a better strategy besides glitching or being able to fight through it, please dazzle us with this intricate and creative tactic. I didn’t say it was anything above neolithic cunning but you can sum anything up bluntly and make it sound bad. this works well for me…and that’s better than being a conscienceless exploiter who wants everything without earning it. it’s not the intended flight path but it still requires effort which is the next best thing when the intended way is near impossible.

i do the 1 in routine..and myself(thief) always stays back as a failsafe…the more you learn your toon, the more you learn how to do things properly..myself(the failsafe) always stays back in case we all get downed…i use my aoe stealth shroud to save magg for 10 seconds and remove him from all aggro, which is plenty of time IMO…this also follows the “suicide line”, which is better than exploiting around..this isnt like any other MMO’s..you will die, and you cant solo everything…if you dont want to run that risk, dont jump into the instances

I got ignored by 2 groups, just because I didn’t wanna revive Magg…This is such a great “community” mmo game..

^ So they did you a favor as you didn’t want to run the dungeon that way anyway

Actually made a thread about this, but I just got kicked from a group when I saw them jump through the gate and said something about it. This is exactly how it happened:
group jumps through gate
Me: I thought Anet fixed this.
Me: Really guys?
kicked from group
Just that fast. And now I have no tokens to show for it. Just because I did not want to exploit.

Its just as bad the other way around too. My guild was doing this the other day, we had 4 people, so we pug the last. Before we even reach the room, the pug dude had already glitched through it. We tell him we’re not going to exploit it. After hearing a big rant and several cuss words from him, we attempt it, and our first time fails.

He tries to get us to do a DIFFERENT exploit. And then another. When we refuse, another rant full of every cuss words in the book. We kick him, and someone from the party goes to pug someone else in Lion’s Arch to finish.

After asking the person if they were ok to do it legitimately, they HESITANTLY accept. We get to the room, they go “Oh, lets just do it <insert obvious exploit here>”. Seriously? Finally we managed to do it 2-3 tries later, but not without a lot of complains from the one pug.

Since there’s no banning threat, people are totally open about it. LFM shouts in lion arch specifically ask for the classes that can exploit it, even describing the exploit.

There’s a reason CoF armor is the most common dungeon armor in the game right now. It really cheapens the experience. Sure, Anet should fix it much much faster, but on the other hand, its pretty sad that 99% of the CoF running player base is exploiting it right now.

Exploits are here to stay due to anet backing down from bans 2 times in arrow. There is nothing that ever going to get them to stop trying to exploit everything they can now

Shados.1306:

Its just as bad the other way around too. My guild was doing this the other day, we had 4 people, so we pug the last. Before we even reach the room, the pug dude had already glitched through it. We tell him we’re not going to exploit it. After hearing a big rant and several cuss words from him, we attempt it, and our first time fails.

He tries to get us to do a DIFFERENT exploit. And then another. When we refuse, another rant full of every cuss words in the book. We kick him, and someone from the party goes to pug someone else in Lion’s Arch to finish.

After asking the person if they were ok to do it legitimately, they HESITANTLY accept. We get to the room, they go “Oh, lets just do it <insert obvious exploit here>”. Seriously? Finally we managed to do it 2-3 tries later, but not without a lot of complains from the one pug.

Since there’s no banning threat, people are totally open about it. LFM shouts in lion arch specifically ask for the classes that can exploit it, even describing the exploit.

There’s a reason CoF armor is the most common dungeon armor in the game right now. It really cheapens the experience. Sure, Anet should fix it much much faster, but on the other hand, its pretty sad that 99% of the CoF running player base is exploiting it right now.

yeah i’ve experienced this myself. In my guild group, we’ve pugged the 5th spot, specifically told them we’re doing this legit. So the guy goes through the hole and DPS the last boss anyways, ignoring us telling him to stop. Kicked him and invited another. But in non guild majority groups, it’s lost fight. Ask them to try kiting the Magg room and they’ll say they’ve never successfully like that. Explain to them exactly how to do it. Nicer groups, even when they willing to give it a try, does it wrong by trying to live instead of keeping magg alive. They would run out of the door to reset the mobs all on magg. Once, had a group agree and then their ele ressed magg to the middle of the room. Oy.

Good job fixing the exploitable bugs in CoF. I just went there to check if those were really fixed (of course I was taking a look only at the things I knew about). I haven’t check if the reward system works well but I’ll probably do later today.

One thing I want to point after watching the movie with a group killing mobs spawning during bomb planting. This will not be doable with totaly different profession setup. I also clearly see why it’s doable with the setup I saw.
So it would be nice if someone in ANet considered if as promised explorables are hard but doable with all the setups (I’m not thinking about 5 elementalists setup but rather balanced ones but not necessarly made from 2 warriors and a guardian as a core).

Regarding this exploit – I went two times to see if it realy works as said, I reported exploit and I stopped going to CoF at all. I like my account.

Eve.1029:

Shados.1306:

Its just as bad the other way around too. My guild was doing this the other day, we had 4 people, so we pug the last. Before we even reach the room, the pug dude had already glitched through it. We tell him we’re not going to exploit it. After hearing a big rant and several cuss words from him, we attempt it, and our first time fails.

He tries to get us to do a DIFFERENT exploit. And then another. When we refuse, another rant full of every cuss words in the book. We kick him, and someone from the party goes to pug someone else in Lion’s Arch to finish.

After asking the person if they were ok to do it legitimately, they HESITANTLY accept. We get to the room, they go “Oh, lets just do it <insert obvious exploit here>”. Seriously? Finally we managed to do it 2-3 tries later, but not without a lot of complains from the one pug.

Since there’s no banning threat, people are totally open about it. LFM shouts in lion arch specifically ask for the classes that can exploit it, even describing the exploit.

There’s a reason CoF armor is the most common dungeon armor in the game right now. It really cheapens the experience. Sure, Anet should fix it much much faster, but on the other hand, its pretty sad that 99% of the CoF running player base is exploiting it right now.

yeah i’ve experienced this myself. In my guild group, we’ve pugged the 5th spot, specifically told them we’re doing this legit. So the guy goes through the hole and DPS the last boss anyways, ignoring us telling him to stop. Kicked him and invited another. But in non guild majority groups, it’s lost fight. Ask them to try kiting the Magg room and they’ll say they’ve never successfully like that. Explain to them exactly how to do it. Nicer groups, even when they willing to give it a try, does it wrong by trying to live instead of keeping magg alive. They would run out of the door to reset the mobs all on magg. Once, had a group agree and then their ele ressed magg to the middle of the room. Oy.

you do realize that the intent was to kill the mobs in the bomb room and that suicide train kiting is an exploit, right?

yes i do realize that the intent was to kill the mobs. and I have tried the kill mobs method before. You mostly succeed w/ a good group, and only have to kite the last 20 seconds. however, i don’t always have the luxury of putting such a group together, so.