Guild Wars 2

Hey, long story short. I was dumb for not reading that Versatile Simple Infusions can be used on all ascended armors and weapons in order to gain much higher AR and I finally crafted all of the +1 infusion I had hoarded for so long (in saying so my piroty was crafting my precusor into legendary).

Right now I got 110 AR which before it was 68 so I think I can make a start on Tier 3 now. While I have done T2 for a while but I do know T3 and T4are a whole new level (I know I can’t do T4 yet).

So I was wondering, what advice or guidence would you give to a shout Guardian, my main fractal player? (I also planed to make my Revenant the next fractal character when I send my Guard into HOT but that won’t happened any time soon.)

You have random conditions a lot in that tier, so bring more condi cleanse than usual. You’ll also have lethargic later on and in t4 so an energy sigil may prove very useful. Other than that just refine your tactics as things will be in general harder so mistakes more costly.

Unfortunately due to boon thieves you can’t use a guardian (unless you play very very carefully) in the highest fractal tiers (81+). The enemies will steal retaliation and cause your group to wipe a lot. So you might want to start transitioning to a different class.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Unfortunately due to boon thieves you can’t use a guardian (unless you play very very carefully) in the highest fractal tiers (81+). The enemies will steal retaliation and cause your group to wipe a lot. So you might want to start transitioning to a different class.

What do you recommend for T4 fractals?

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Unfortunately due to boon thieves you can’t use a guardian (unless you play very very carefully) in the highest fractal tiers (81+). The enemies will steal retaliation and cause your group to wipe a lot. So you might want to start transitioning to a different class.

How does Revenant fair in T4 then?

My Guard and Revanant are the only ones who are fully desked out in ascended gears (what? It’s expensive making ascended clothing and RNG is never on my side when it come to those XP reward chests in eotm) and I am in the transition on making my Revenant taking over eotm when I send my Guard to the HOT story (waste of silvers if I keep sending him back and forth from LA to the HOT maps).

Well ok there is also my Mesmer but he will take alot of tinkering to be fractal ready (he isn’t my most favourite class in PVE).

Rev doesn’t have the Retal issues a Guard does with boon thieves but you can still play guard with that. In t4’s you almost always have a necro and/or mesmer which will rip those boons right off. Though you do still want to be careful with the retal. activation. If I were to choose between rev and guard I’d probably go Rev as they offer a lot of what guards do in fractals without that fear of retal transfer (though you can still have your other boons transfer which things like protection are no fun).

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Unfortunately due to boon thieves you can’t use a guardian (unless you play very very carefully) in the highest fractal tiers (81+). The enemies will steal retaliation and cause your group to wipe a lot. So you might want to start transitioning to a different class.

That’s bullkitten, honestly
The instability has a cooldown per player and most parties have at least a necro, often a mesmer too, i.e. enough boonstrip to counteract. On top of that most players probably aren’t going to blow themselves up hard to retaliation with a few exceptions and I’m convinced that watching enemy boons isn’t a difficult thing to do.
Yes, retal can be annoying, but it’s definitely not as bad as you make it out to be.

Reroll to a class anet isn’t hell bend on screwing over…

On a more serious note going up past 80 you’ll have to be rly careful with retal even when bringing boonrip classes. T3 is still fine tho. It’s been a while but it’s prob a good idea to look into the hammer build already since the bosses are prob already HP sponges.

Better start gearing that rev asap…. Retal is the worst thing in T4 fractals and guards can pump out retal like crazy. If u get an engi on the group as well be prepared to either kick the engi or kick yourself cause those blasts are gonna give retal 24/7.

I run T4 on my Guard all the time and I very rarely have issues with retal, and I certainly have never been kicked out of a group because of it. The boon thief has a cooldown and other boons compete to be stolen.
Granted, I’ve built my Guard to generate as little retal as possible, which is not difficult as the raid meta is pretty much that. I run a Ham/LB build very similar to the raid meta and the only real source of retal is if someone blasted my light fields.
If you do get your retal stolen, you’d definitely notice… as a low HP class, a procession of blades or GS#2 being retal-ed will insta-down you.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

The instability has a cooldown per player

Guardian retal applications tend to be party-wide.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

and most parties have at least a necro, often a mesmer too, i.e. enough boonstrip to counteract.

Not really, unless you specifically build for it, in which case you nerf your damage significantly just to carry one class.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

On top of that most players probably aren’t going to blow themselves up hard to retaliation with a few exceptions

You’d be surprised. Ironically, the class least likely to blow up due to retal would be the guardian.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

and I’m convinced that watching enemy boons isn’t a difficult thing to do.

It isn’t, but then you’d have to not use any DoT effects or channels, and not attacking until retal is down is (again) a big dps hit.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Yes, retal can be annoying, but it’s definitely not as bad as you make it out to be.

The main point is not that you’d wipe, because you can avoid that. The main point is that a guard in fract 80+ party means your party overall effectiveness just went down. Hard.

Had a personal experience of that, and as a result had to stop using my guard for high fractals. I just decided that being a buden to others just because i play a specific class would be a kitten thing to do.

onevstheworld.2419:

Granted, I’ve built my Guard to generate as little retal as possible, which is not difficult as the raid meta is pretty much that.

If you’re running any sort of useful guardian build, you generate retal. There’s no way around that without severely nerfing your build. And yes, light fields are one of the main problems.

Astralporing.1957:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

and most parties have at least a necro, often a mesmer too, i.e. enough boonstrip to counteract.

Not really, unless you specifically build for it, in which case you nerf your damage significantly just to carry one class.

Scepter’s third auto attack for necro and sword 3rd for mesmer, both pretty standard usage, especially for DPS.

Jerus.4350:

Astralporing.1957:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

and most parties have at least a necro, often a mesmer too, i.e. enough boonstrip to counteract.

Not really, unless you specifically build for it, in which case you nerf your damage significantly just to carry one class.

Scepter’s third auto attack for necro and sword 3rd for mesmer, both pretty standard usage, especially for DPS.

Sure, but they don’t give you boon removal on demand (and not enough boon removal to matter). Necro scepter boon corrupt is more of an additional condition application than a reliable boonrip

Astralporing.1957:

Guardian retal applications tend to be party-wide.

Doesn’t matter, I think he meant the boon thief has a cooldown. This cooldown is chilling enough.

Astralporing.1957:

Not really, unless you specifically build for it, in which case you nerf your damage significantly just to carry one class.

Yes, really. You don’t have to rebuild mesmer or mecro. Every 3rd hit with standard weapons (Sword & Scepter) will remove a boon. The problem is more – I see it every week in Pugs on VG – that the mes is not consequently autoattacking the enemy when no “perfect meta super mega rotation” is needed. Just spam 1 to remove boons, and rotate while the cooldown is active.
Also Mesmer has another ability to remove boons, so does Necro. You only have to have players that use their brains and not running all 3 T4 Fractals with exact the same abilities in every corner.

Astralporing.1957:

The main point is not that you’d wipe, because you can avoid that. The main point is that a guard in fract 80+ party means your party overall effectiveness just went down. Hard.

Haven’t been wiping due to a guard since I can remember. On the other hand I always have a boon stripping class with me (always myself as necro) which is not very uncommon because many players are playing condi necro in high fractals and there is almost always a mesmer around.

People exaggerating again with this topic. I guess it’s just a matter of practice and training. I rarely have trouble or problems and I only pug fracs (at most together with a friend). The biggest issues there are players not knowing the content (kind of rare nowadays) or some players thinking their way to go is the best and trying to discipline others when there obviously is no need for a.k.a. being toxic. E.g. for a single dolyak signet during the door part in dredge fractal where no fight is necessary (although I wouldn’t use it either ^^) and other small irrelevant things that aren’t slowing the runs.
Come on, every T4 fractal is easy, stop being a jerk.

Vinceman.4572:

Yes, really. You don’t have to rebuild mesmer or mecro. Every 3rd hit with standard weapons (Sword & Scepter) will remove a boon. The problem is more – I see it every week in Pugs on VG – that the mes is not consequently autoattacking the enemy when no “perfect meta super mega rotation” is needed. Just spam 1 to remove boons, and rotate while the cooldown is active.
Also Mesmer has another ability to remove boons, so does Necro. You only have to have players that use their brains and not running all 3 T4 Fractals with exact the same abilities in every corner.

I don’t play a necro, but the mesmer part is utter nonsense in reality. Yes, you can be lucky, have your boons including reta stolen, finish the AA chain instantly afterwards and accidentally remove reta instead of the alternative boons. Some people also win in the lottery, I’ve heard. Otherwise, reta will stay up for several seconds, which is more than enough time for many classes to blow themselves up twice. The guard can’t even fully control reta application himself, as you just need another player using a blast (or possibly leap) finisher.

In theory, a mesmer could also use PDisenchanter or arcane thievery, but then we’re back to the point Astral already mentioned – kitten yourself just to get a bandaid fix for having the one class in your group which has been thoroughly screwed by FailNet. Easier solution: don’t bring a guard. Reduces the risk of blowing up the entire party to negligible.

We sometimes have a guard in T4 fractals (whenever someone feels like playing guard that day pretty much), no problem whatsoever. We generally strip most boons easily, without having to use any bonus corruption/removal.
Also, if guardian is so bad to you due to the boons they generate, what about chronos and their quickness? Do you not take them because it could speed up bosses to the point where the party destroys themselves due to being unable to react fast enough?

well, you just got the problem out novaan.
if you run with a necro comp, retal is not much of a problem, duo to slow hitting and not much hits per second.

i had it many times when i was running on my ele, that i unload my rotation und suddenly retal and i am dead within 1 second.

while i agree, that guards can be played if hes careful with it and also if players react with boonstrip, its clear that you need a wider attention span and especially with eles. yes, you blow up too fast if there is also a perma quickness chrono in your group and you are at a point where you do many hits.

Quickness? Who cares? If you double 0 attack speed, you’re still at 0. By contrast, dealing up to ~5k dps to yourself is rather unhealthy.

Actually, 5k is still too low. I forgot quickness.

CptAurellian.9537:

I don’t play a necro, but the mesmer part is utter nonsense in reality. Yes, you can be lucky, have your boons including reta stolen, finish the AA chain instantly afterwards and accidentally remove reta instead of the alternative boons. Some people also win in the lottery, I’ve heard.

You are talking nonsense. nothing else, seriously!

Remember: The instability has a 20-second cooldown.

Mesmer autoattack sword which is the standard weapon on mesmer, you don’t switch it:
“Mind Spike: Stab a foe and rip a boon off of them.”
This applies every third hit. Due to enemies not having many boons, all of them are ripped of within a second. You just have to press 1111111111111111111.

Necro autoattack scepter which is the standard weapon on necro, you don’t switch it:
“Putrid Curse: Boons converted to conditions: 1”
This applies every third hit. Due to enemies not having many boons, all of them are ripped of within a second. You just have to press 1111111111111111111.

Also:
Mesmer – Null field – Create a field of energy that rips boons from foes and cures conditions on allies – 32s cooldown (can be shortened by mes as we all know)
Necro – Boon of corruption – Target area pulses – converting boons on foes into conditions – 40s cooldown (can be shortened by mes as we all know)

The rest you are writing can be disregarded.
It’s enough to have a mes so a guard and the blast finishers won’t lead to a group wipe.

That only happens if you are playing with very bad players! The risk is only there with ppl not knowing how to play their class.

As I mentioned before I haven’t been wiping with a guard in my pug group since I can remember playing fractals.

CptAurellian.9537:

Quickness? Who cares? If you double 0 attack speed, you’re still at 0. By contrast, dealing up to ~5k dps to yourself is rather unhealthy.

Actually, 5k is still too low. I forgot quickness.

You would be surprised that I actually see chronos not giving quickness on bosses because “they can steal it” and how people get completely annihiliated by bosses once they have quickness on them, kinda depressing to watch tbh. And I don’t even pug often. At the same time, even if the boss has retal on him, most pugs I’ve seen don’t blow themselves up since because they don’t even get enough multi-hits in; of course that’ll be more of a problem if someone gets their rotation down and plays a class that has many multi-hits, but at that point I’d argue they know to watch out for retal in specific comps. I’m not even saying that retal is a non-issue, because it can very well be, but it’s definitely not something that should make you stop playing your class.

Besides (and yes, I’m aware that’s not an argument whatsoever), I think retal is great to get pugs out of their eternal sleep and actually make them pay attention.

@skarpak: We only have one necro at best whenever we run fractals, actually. If you mean that, that is

Vinceman.4572:

Remember: The instability has a 20-second cooldown.

Mesmer autoattack sword which is the standard weapon on mesmer, you don’t switch it:
“Mind Spike: Stab a foe and rip a boon off of them.”
This applies every third hit. Due to enemies not having many boons, all of them are ripped of within a second. You just have to press 1111111111111111111.

No kitten, Sherlock. In your brilliant post, you forgot only one factor: boon thieves steals up to 5 boons per player, so you typically have 5+ on the boss. Teach me how to rip “all of them of[f] within a second” by just autoattacking. As for the rest of your post, I guess demanding some reading comprehension would clearly be too much.

As to quickness, I have yet to see that having any noticeable effect on bosses. With reta accidents, by contrast, I’ve seen more than enough people blow themselves up in 1-2 seconds. And when you have fields or other passives down, you can’t even prevent it by stopping your other attacks.

CptAurellian.9537:

No kitten, Sherlock. In your brilliant post, you forgot only one factor: boon thieves steals up to 5 boons per player, so you typically have 5+ on the boss. Teach me how to rip “all of them of[f] within a second” by just autoattacking. As for the rest of your post, I guess demanding some reading comprehension would clearly be too much.

No kitten, Watson.
I don’t need reading comprehension because your problem is just a theoretically one. A mesmer has enough abilities – I posted them – to handle this alone. The “up to 5 boons” means UP TO, not always 5 and if you have a proper look onto the enemies they rarely have more than 3 boons up.

I agree this only counts for players knowing how to T4. Random stupid guy with no plan will struggle that’s for sure.

I repeat: If you know your sh_t retaliation is 0.0% a problem in T4.

sigh The other abilities, that’s exactly where you lack reading comprehension. Gimping yourself (there’s a metric ton of more useful utility skills) just to compensate for the reta problem is neither fun nor good design. Especially when 90% of reta is directly or indirectly caused by exactly one class.

Besides: If your entire group knows their stuff, it’s little problem. As soon as you take a random guy with you, it’s a lottery.

BS!
And there is still no lack of reading comprehension, stop the insults!

Null field is a very useful ability and no waste at all. Boon of corruption is also fine. Why not using them if there is an instability like this? Especially at 100 they are gold worth. This is what good players call adaptation to encounters. You still have enough place for 2 of your most loved abilities.

CptAurellian.9537:

Besides: If your entire group knows their stuff, it’s little problem. As soon as you take a random guy with you, it’s a lottery.

Again: I pug fractals with randoms every fricking day if I have the time. No problems with retal whatsoever. The biggest issues are toxic egomaniacs nothing else.
Slowly I understand why you and others are facing problems. Just copying full dps metabuilds that are the optimum for organized groups won’t lead to the fastest success. They are a basis or a starter not the gold standard!

Ok this seen to gotta out of hand…

So basically I fine with my Guard on T3 but if I want to T4 with him, it would be a changed of builds and possible some rejection? Otherwise, higher AR should goes toward my Revenant or Mesmer then?

I main Guardian in fractals and got my legendary wings.

guardian is fine. Just know your stuffs. I just dont use gs 4 and F1. and switch out the trait that deal more damage for enemy standing in your symbol since I dont use gs4.

Guard’s other utilities: reflect, Aegis (well timed of course) are useful in fractals.

and having a necro or mesmer in group helps. My friend usually run necro with me

Renkencen.6127:

Ok this seen to gotta out of hand…

So basically I fine with my Guard on T3 but if I want to T4 with him, it would be a changed of builds and possible some rejection? Otherwise, higher AR should goes toward my Revenant or Mesmer then?

Yes. Especially after today’s balance patch, that increased guard’s possible retal applications.