Guild Wars 2

Mostly for rev, I want to play a role switcher, I have seen them from before but it was a long time ago.

Celestial gear doesn’t allow you to switch roles, it allows you to play all roles poorly. If you want to be able to switch roles, get legendary gear.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Celestial gear doesn’t allow you to switch roles, it allows you to play all roles poorly. If you want to be able to switch roles, get legendary gear.

Uhhh celestial is all stats is it not? And I did not say it allows you to switch roles, but rev class can switch roles to an extent therefor I am asking about celestial gear.

Ryou.2398:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Celestial gear doesn’t allow you to switch roles, it allows you to play all roles poorly. If you want to be able to switch roles, get legendary gear.

Uhhh celestial is all stats is it not? And I did not say it allows you to switch roles, but rev class can switch roles to an extent therefor I am asking about celestial gear.

It functions exactly like he said. If you get celestial you’ll just be bad at any role you try and play. Yeah, you’ll be able to “role switch”, but you’ll be switching from “being bad” to “also being bad”.

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Celestial gear doesn’t allow you to switch roles, it allows you to play all roles poorly. If you want to be able to switch roles, get legendary gear.

Uhhh celestial is all stats is it not? And I did not say it allows you to switch roles, but rev class can switch roles to an extent therefor I am asking about celestial gear.

It functions exactly like he said. If you get celestial you’ll just be bad at any role you try and play. Yeah, you’ll be able to “role switch”, but you’ll be switching from “being bad” to “also being bad”.

That is kind of a bad explanation, allot of people also have meta tunnel vision, I have known people to use celestial for other things in the past and did quite well with it.

also sadly it aint all stats anymore since they added concentration and expertise….

They took away magic find stat when they took magic find away but dident find it in their hearts to add when they added stats.

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Celestial gear doesn’t allow you to switch roles, it allows you to play all roles poorly. If you want to be able to switch roles, get legendary gear.

Uhhh celestial is all stats is it not? And I did not say it allows you to switch roles, but rev class can switch roles to an extent therefor I am asking about celestial gear.

It functions exactly like he said. If you get celestial you’ll just be bad at any role you try and play. Yeah, you’ll be able to “role switch”, but you’ll be switching from “being bad” to “also being bad”.

That is kind of a bad explanation, allot of people also have meta tunnel vision, I have known people to use celestial for other things in the past and did quite well with it.

One stats set only allows you to play one role. Even celestial gear won’t let you play multiple roles.

Ryou.2398:

That is kind of a bad explanation

Alright, let me explain this better:

Celestial gear won’t allow you to assume the role of DPS (damage dealer), because it wastes a lot of stats on passive defense (toughness, vitality, healing power) and therefor has very poor damage potential (not to mention the hybridization of power and condi damage, which also works extremely poorly). If you want to DPS, you’ll need gear specifically focused on that – i.e. Berserker’s/Assassin’s for power damage, Viper’s/Sinister for condition damage.

It doesn’t allow you to become a support role either, because it gives you ZERO boon duration and very little healing power (compared to healing power main sets like Magi’s). I guess you would be able to provide a little bit of healing and buff uptime, but again, it’s extremely bad compared to builds that focus on that like magi druid. You could also try to compensate for the lack of boon duration by a specific rune/sigil choice, but that would lock you into that specific role – which is gonna happen anyway.

As far as tanking goes, gear has very little impact on that. In GW2, one’s ability to tank is determined by the amount of active defenses available to you without needing to alter your build, which is currently dominated by chronomancers. Also you need to have higher toughness than everyone else, but that’s extremely easy to achieve with minimal changes to your build. The fact is, that chronomancers can pick up the tank role without sacrificng aynthing (+ they are gonna be a part of the squad anyway), which makes them naturally better tanks than any other class in the game, because others would have to give something up. And gear has no impact on that (as long as you have a bit of extra toughness) – in fact, chronomancers use the same gear for tanking as they would be using otherwise, for their regular job, with the exception of toughness manipulation.

For casual stuff like open world, feel free to use celestial gear. Nobody’s gonna care and you may end up doing MORE work than people using berserker gear, because they usually fail to dodge and hug the floor 99% of the time. But keep in mind celestial’s (and other hybrid gear) performance in endgame content with coordinated groups will be EXTREMELY subpar and you’ll likely be kicked from most groups.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

For casual stuff like open world, feel free to use celestial gear. Nobody’s gonna care and you may end up doing MORE work than people using berserker gear, because they usually fail to dodge and hug the floor 99% of the time. But keep in mind celestial’s (and other hybrid gear) performance in endgame content with coordinated groups will be EXTREMELY subpar and you’ll likely be kicked from most groups.

This.

Very nice explanation.

The fact that celestial gear is missing crucial stats like boon duration and condition duration only hurts it even more besides the direct loss of stats compared to specific sets.

Fay’s explanation was also correct. Celestial doesn’t allow you to run multiple builds (where builds actually matter) but it allows you to run multiple builds very poorly.

I see thanks for the explanation everyone, not sure why some eles are doing so well with celestial then, I personally would not mind trading off some things to become a more versatile character, but the boon thing makes sense, I just want to be able to trade off effectiveness in certain roles to be able to do multiple roles decently.

As someone who uses celestial gear across multiple characters in T4 fractals and solo dungeon runs (currently gearing a celestial necro for solo CM100 use) I disagree with the assessment that celestial stats are useless, but agree with the assessment that they will not allow the OP to be flexible with their role and legend choices. In my experience celestial gear is not a jack-of-all-roles stat set: rather it is the set for defensive self-sufficiency, of most use when soloing group content or carrying an uncoordinated group. It is also a stat set that works better on some classes than on others, and I’m not sure how good a celestial Revenant would be.

Professor Sprout.1560:

As someone who uses celestial gear across multiple characters in T4 fractals and solo dungeon runs (currently gearing a celestial necro for solo CM100 use) I disagree with the assessment that celestial stats are useless, but agree with the assessment that they will not allow the OP to be flexible with their role and legend choices. In my experience celestial gear is not a jack-of-all-roles stat set: rather it is the set for defensive self-sufficiency, of most use when soloing group content or carrying an uncoordinated group. It is also a stat set that works better on some classes than on others, and I’m not sure how good a celestial Revenant would be.

Any alternatives?

Professor Sprout.1560:

As someone who uses celestial gear across multiple characters in T4 fractals and solo dungeon runs (currently gearing a celestial necro for solo CM100 use) I disagree with the assessment that celestial stats are useless, but agree with the assessment that they will not allow the OP to be flexible with their role and legend choices. In my experience celestial gear is not a jack-of-all-roles stat set: rather it is the set for defensive self-sufficiency, of most use when soloing group content or carrying an uncoordinated group. It is also a stat set that works better on some classes than on others, and I’m not sure how good a celestial Revenant would be.

It’s not really self sufficiency, it’s a self crutch. You are independant, but you are not really sufficient, because you lack the skill or know how to get rid of the crutch that is defensive stats, or jack of all trades gear. You can do everything you just described in full dps gear, in half the time. The question is, are you good enough at this game to do so? Probably not, which is why you think celestial gear is good.

Soloed CM 100 on full vipers. Hell you can solo most fractals on viper necro.

I know a necro that runs full minstrel. Came in a dungeon with him and cleared it in about 10 mins without his help, on a full zerker warrior. What would have taken him an hour.

But tbh, the reason you are soloing it, would probably be because an actual squad would kick you if they found out? I know i would. Thats why this particular necro soloed the dungeon rather than finding a party. He barely knew the mechanics of the dungeon, he did no damage, and his overall attention span was poor. He was just too stubborn to get rid of the crutch, because just as some people make it a point to be meta, there are those that make it a point to be ‘antimeta’, when the reality is they just have a bad build they want to be accepted as good without putting in the work to make it a good build.

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?

Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?

Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?

Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.

Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.

I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.

Ryou.2398:

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

I have the strong feeling you don’t get what they are trying to show you.

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?

Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.

Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.

I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.

And I have played allot of mmorpgs and understand the meta mentality as well and many times the meta can be off about things as well, I really do not trust the meta attitude because my experience has proved to me I should not.

And this is the only game where ive heard people say defensive stats are used as a crutch, this is far from the only mmorpg where you have dodge mechanics.

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?

Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.

Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.

I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.

And I have played allot of mmorpgs and understand the meta mentality as well and many times the meta can be off about things as well, I really do not trust the meta attitude because my experience has proved to me I should not.

And this is the only game where ive heard people say defensive stats are used as a crutch, this is far from the only mmorpg where you have dodge mechanics.

Meta stands for “Most-Efficient-Tactical-Advantage”.

Defensive stats in GW2 are not needed for survival, this is a fact since enough people have shown that you can survive perfectly fine with 0 defensive stats in all pve content. This is not the case in most other MMOs.

This has nothing to do with mentality. It’s simple math and testing of different builds.

What you are refering to is peoples attitude when they are talking about meta, what I am talking about is the plain math and game design related to the term.

Now you go ahead and disagree and go off building your soldiers or knights or whatever gear with defensive stats you desire. If you stay long enough with the game though you will end up exactly where everyone else is, running a full damage build in pve.

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?

Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.

Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.

I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.

And I have played allot of mmorpgs and understand the meta mentality as well and many times the meta can be off about things as well, I really do not trust the meta attitude because my experience has proved to me I should not.

And this is the only game where ive heard people say defensive stats are used as a crutch, this is far from the only mmorpg where you have dodge mechanics.

Meta stands for “Most-Efficient-Tactical-Advantage”.

Defensive stats in GW2 are not needed for survival, this is a fact since enough people have shown that you can survive perfectly fine with 0 defensive stats in all pve content. This is not the case in most other MMOs.

This has nothing to do with mentality. It’s simple math and testing of different builds.

What you are refering to is peoples attitude when they are talking about meta, what I am talking about is the plain math and game design related to the term.

Now you go ahead and disagree and go off building your soldiers or knights or whatever gear with defensive stats you desire. If you stay long enough with the game though you will end up exactly where everyone else is, running a full damage build in pve.

If it was simple math then this concept would exist in those other mmorpgs with dodge mechanics, because nearly the same all type of stats exist in those other mmorpgs as well. Again this is more then likely a mentality thing then a fact.

And not everyone wants to be squishy and not it has nothing to do with a safety net it has something to do with playstyle another reason is you do not want to rely on your teammates if something goes go bad, when your down in a fight that is still a dps loss.

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?

Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.

Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.

I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.

And I have played allot of mmorpgs and understand the meta mentality as well and many times the meta can be off about things as well, I really do not trust the meta attitude because my experience has proved to me I should not.

And this is the only game where ive heard people say defensive stats are used as a crutch, this is far from the only mmorpg where you have dodge mechanics.

Meta stands for “Most-Efficient-Tactical-Advantage”.

Defensive stats in GW2 are not needed for survival, this is a fact since enough people have shown that you can survive perfectly fine with 0 defensive stats in all pve content. This is not the case in most other MMOs.

This has nothing to do with mentality. It’s simple math and testing of different builds.

What you are refering to is peoples attitude when they are talking about meta, what I am talking about is the plain math and game design related to the term.

Now you go ahead and disagree and go off building your soldiers or knights or whatever gear with defensive stats you desire. If you stay long enough with the game though you will end up exactly where everyone else is, running a full damage build in pve.

If it was simple math then this concept would exist in those other mmorpgs with dodge mechanics, because nearly the same all type of stats exist in those other mmorpgs as well. Again this is more then likely a mentality thing then a fact.

And not everyone wants to be squishy and not it has nothing to do with a safety net it has something to do with playstyle another reason is you do not want to rely on your teammates if something goes go bad, when your down in a fight that is still a dps loss.

Defensive stats are NOT needed in pve. That is a fact.

How well builds perform damage wise is up to debate and testing yes.

Beat his time on celestial gear and I’ll admit that it’s better than zerk.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnYqIokGXBI

Beat his time on celestial gear and I’ll admit that it’s better than zerk.

Celestial is not defensive stats it is a jack of all trades stats set.

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?

Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.

Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.

I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.

And I have played allot of mmorpgs and understand the meta mentality as well and many times the meta can be off about things as well, I really do not trust the meta attitude because my experience has proved to me I should not.

And this is the only game where ive heard people say defensive stats are used as a crutch, this is far from the only mmorpg where you have dodge mechanics.

Meta stands for “Most-Efficient-Tactical-Advantage”.

Defensive stats in GW2 are not needed for survival, this is a fact since enough people have shown that you can survive perfectly fine with 0 defensive stats in all pve content. This is not the case in most other MMOs.

This has nothing to do with mentality. It’s simple math and testing of different builds.

What you are refering to is peoples attitude when they are talking about meta, what I am talking about is the plain math and game design related to the term.

Now you go ahead and disagree and go off building your soldiers or knights or whatever gear with defensive stats you desire. If you stay long enough with the game though you will end up exactly where everyone else is, running a full damage build in pve.

If it was simple math then this concept would exist in those other mmorpgs with dodge mechanics, because nearly the same all type of stats exist in those other mmorpgs as well. Again this is more then likely a mentality thing then a fact.

And not everyone wants to be squishy and not it has nothing to do with a safety net it has something to do with playstyle another reason is you do not want to rely on your teammates if something goes go bad, when your down in a fight that is still a dps loss.

Defensive stats are NOT needed in pve. That is a fact.

How well builds perform damage wise is up to debate and testing yes.

No it is not fact it is YOUR opinion.

Ryou.2398:

Again this is more then likely a mentality thing then a fact.

And not everyone wants to be squishy and not it has nothing to do with a safety net it has something to do with playstyle another reason is you do not want to rely on your teammates if something goes go bad, when your down in a fight that is still a dps loss.

Well, I started my first lvl 80 career on a toughness necromancer in 2013. After a short time of being in the game I realized that exactly this playstyle is boring to me. So my mentality was shifting to a way more faster but also more punishing style. This brought diversity, adaptation, learning encounters and improving reflexes. Sure, that’s not a thing for everyone but it’s what the game is for me. Is it a mentality, of course, a bad one, I doubt so. It’s a subjective perspective.
I personally don’t like to see someone finishing the last 10% of a boss lonely in 5 minutes while the other 90% has been made by 5 players in the same or less time and only because the one special snowflake runs a suboptimal build the group had to struggle way longer than it should have!
Nobody will condemn your build but if you are looking for groups to play with choose those who are ok with your build and please avoid meta groups. There’s a reason they are playing like this and you don’t.

Ryou.2398:

No it is not fact it is YOUR opinion.

You are wrong on this one here. It is a fact.

Ryou.2398:

Celestial is not defensive stats it is a jack of all trades stats set.

Jack of all trades, master of none!

Vinceman.4572:

Ryou.2398:

Again this is more then likely a mentality thing then a fact.

And not everyone wants to be squishy and not it has nothing to do with a safety net it has something to do with playstyle another reason is you do not want to rely on your teammates if something goes go bad, when your down in a fight that is still a dps loss.

Well, I started my first lvl 80 career on a toughness necromancer in 2013. After a short time of being in the game I realized that exactly this playstyle is boring to me. So my mentality was shifting to a way more faster but also more punishing style. This brought diversity, adaptation, learning encounters and improving reflexes. Sure, that’s not a thing for everyone but it’s what the game is for me. Is it a mentality, of course, a bad one, I doubt so. It’s a subjective perspective.
I personally don’t like to see someone finishing the last 10% of a boss lonely in 5 minutes while the other 90% has been made by 5 players in the same or less time and only because the one special snowflake runs a suboptimal build the group had to struggle way longer than it should have!
Nobody will condemn your build but if you are looking for groups to play with choose those who are ok with your build and please avoid meta groups. There’s a reason they are playing like this and you don’t.

Ryou.2398:

No it is not fact it is YOUR opinion.

You are wrong on this one here. It is a fact.

No the reason for meta builds is because people put them on websites and follow cookie cutter builds thats it, and it has existed on any multiplayer rpg since the dawn of online rpgs of any kind, it does not mean they are always the best, they are effective usually but far from perfect.

There are many ways for group dynamics in any mmorpg, just because you play with groups that are dps centric does not mean it is more effective, there are more ways to play then pure dps.

And no one suggested throwing a random bad build, there is nothing special snowflake about picking defensive stats either, it is a playstyle lol, anyways people need to stop abusing the special snowflake comment this is proof you are with the meta mentality as this is a common opinion of people like that and love to throw around the term and not understand how to even use it correctly.

And no it is not a fact but call it one all you like, you will never change my opinion on something as subjective as this.

Ryou.2398:

Celestial is not defensive stats it is a jack of all trades stats set.

I my post I said nothing about celestial being defensive set or not. I challenged you to beat the time of a good player, who doesn’t need the “crutch” of such stat sets and can solo bloomhunger with full zerk gear. If you can best his time, it would help you make your point that the celestial set has its place in PvE. Until then, I will still consider it trash tier.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Ryou.2398:

Celestial is not defensive stats it is a jack of all trades stats set.

I my post I said nothing about celestial being defensive set or not. I challenged you to beat the time of a good player, who doesn’t need the “crutch” of such stat sets and can solo bloomhunger with full zerk gear. If you can best his time, it would help you make your point that the celestial set has its place in PvE. Until then, I will still consider it trash tier.

Except I never once said celestial will out perform in dps lol, I was interested in being a role switcher and asked about it, then the thread turned into being about choosing some defensive gear in pve. Your literally here to boost your own ego when you have no idea what you where even challenging.

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

Cyninja.2954:

Ryou.2398:

fishball.7204:

But dungeons can be solo’d in full zerk (or viper), celestial is just a crutch for bad play.

Same with fracs, those SC record solos are all done in zerk.

Self-sufficiency is about skill first and foremost, defensive gear stats just help pad any lack of skill.

I disagree just because your wearing defensive gear does not mean you cannot use it for other purposes then a crutch.

You can disagree but as fishball said, since it’s not needed all it does is cover for lack of player skill.

Defensive stats have a very narrow range of usefulness in pve content. Most of the time they get used to give up a big chunck of useful stats for more leeway with mistakes.

No it does not lol, while some may use it for that reason not everyone does, sorry but I think some of you are just full of it.

How are we full of it when it’s proven that defensive stats are not needed?

Feel free to build however you like. Don’t come asking for advice though if you don’t want to accept the answers and suggestions given.

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

No one ever suggested otherwise. You came seeking advice and how or if you use it is up to you.

Eventually you might realise though that you are talking with people who have tried and not only theorised about different stat combinations.

I personally have multiple full ascended sets on multiple characters ranging from celestial to knights to berserker to vipers to marauder and even full minstrel on multiple characters. Defensive stats unless used for tanking in raids or in wvw are not needed in pve. Thus they serve as crutch at best.

And I have played allot of mmorpgs and understand the meta mentality as well and many times the meta can be off about things as well, I really do not trust the meta attitude because my experience has proved to me I should not.

And this is the only game where ive heard people say defensive stats are used as a crutch, this is far from the only mmorpg where you have dodge mechanics.

Meta stands for “Most-Efficient-Tactical-Advantage”.

Defensive stats in GW2 are not needed for survival, this is a fact since enough people have shown that you can survive perfectly fine with 0 defensive stats in all pve content. This is not the case in most other MMOs.

This has nothing to do with mentality. It’s simple math and testing of different builds.

What you are refering to is peoples attitude when they are talking about meta, what I am talking about is the plain math and game design related to the term.

Now you go ahead and disagree and go off building your soldiers or knights or whatever gear with defensive stats you desire. If you stay long enough with the game though you will end up exactly where everyone else is, running a full damage build in pve.

If it was simple math then this concept would exist in those other mmorpgs with dodge mechanics, because nearly the same all type of stats exist in those other mmorpgs as well. Again this is more then likely a mentality thing then a fact.

And not everyone wants to be squishy and not it has nothing to do with a safety net it has something to do with playstyle another reason is you do not want to rely on your teammates if something goes go bad, when your down in a fight that is still a dps loss.

Defensive stats are NOT needed in pve. That is a fact.

How well builds perform damage wise is up to debate and testing yes.

No it is not fact it is YOUR opinion.

Except that it is a fact because not only have I cleared all pve content in 0 defensive stat gear multiple times. So have thousands upon thousands others and so do people running raids every single week which is arguably the most challenging content in this gane at this time.

That alone makes it a fact and not an opinion.

To everyone else in this thread it just shows that you have no understanding of the concept of what meta actually means.

The usefullness of Celestial gear with it’s jack of all trades, master of none stats greatly depends on the content you are running. It works well with any hybrid build and especially if you are in the need of some defesive stats like in PvP. Many even considered it to be overpowered in the past. It can also be used to great effect in the Open World or other solo content.

However, we are talking about raids here. Content that is meant to be ran by ten players. You will rarely find yourself in a group that doesn’t have the big three. A chrono, a druid and a warrior. A place where hybrid builds aren’t needed.
You should have a lot of healing and defense boons, offensive boons, blocks and invulnerability. That combined with your own defenses and ability to dodge makes all of those defensive stats on the Celestial set almost pointless.
Consider this, we are talking about the most common scenario here. It is the scenario people assume you’d try to fit a revenant with Celestial into. It would be a pretty weak build in that case.

You could given us more information about your own experience, the experience of your squad, the builds everyone else runs, the difficulties you still seem to have. People then might have told you that a build that is able to full holes where they open up isn’t the worst of choices.
Instead, you choose to get offended and deny any reasonable thing anybody said by bringing up meta tunnel vision.

Ryou.2398:

It does not mean they are always the best, they are effective usually but far from perfect.

I don’t know to which builds you are referring to but I would assume that most of the people caring about min-maxing – which is the way of getting perfect builds – following qT and other proven builds in context with speedrunning. These builds don’t have to be perfect for you but they are in the objective manner because those players try to squeeze the best out of it therefore those builds are perfection in terms of mathematics.

Ryou.2398:

There are many ways for group dynamics in any mmorpg, just because you play with groups that are dps centric does not mean it is more effective, there are more ways to play then pure dps.

DPS groups that can execute given things are the effectiveness in person. Other ways than to play pure dps are less effective, of course possible but still inferior.

Ryou.2398:

And no one suggested throwing a random bad build, there is nothing special snowflake about picking defensive stats either, it is a playstyle lol, anyways people need to stop abusing the special snowflake comment this is proof you are with the meta mentality as this is a common opinion of people like that and love to throw around the term and not understand how to even use it correctly.

The given fact that you don’t need defensive stats to beat every stuff in this game thwarts everything you try to bring up here.

Ryou.2398:

And no it is not a fact but call it one all you like, you will never change my opinion on something as subjective as this.

I never had the intention to change your opinion. You can stay wrong here but it doesn’t change the fact that you are wrong. Simple as it is. ^^

I think this quote by Nike should answer all your questions and concerns:

Deviating from the meta is fine if it makes logical sense. If you’re doing it because snowflakes gotta snowflake and it doesn’t have any upside in the fight you’re being selfish and hurting your team.

If we’re talking raids or any other coordinated group content, celestial is obviously useless. Replace any class of your choosing from the standard meta composition by a celestial revenant, you will end up with demonstrably worse performance, period. This is why meta is meta.

For solo content, feel free to run whatever you want. You’re not draggning anyone down, because you’re playing solo. If you’re concerned about efficiency, I think it’s been stated clearly enough celestial is subpar compared to meta gear, but hey – do whatever you think is FUN.

As for your original question whether celestial allows you to swap roles, that’s also been answered: No.

Henry.5713:

The usefullness of Celestial gear with it’s jack of all trades, master of none stats greatly depends on the content you are running. It works well with any hybrid build and especially if you are in the need of some defesive stats like in PvP. Many even considered it to be overpowered in the past. It can also be used to great effect in the Open World or other solo content.

However, we are talking about raids here. Content that is meant to be ran by ten players. You will rarely find yourself in a group that doesn’t have the big three. A chrono, a druid and a warrior. A place where hybrid builds aren’t needed.
You should have a lot of healing and defense boons, offensive boons, blocks and invulnerability. That combined with your own defenses and ability to dodge makes all of those defensive stats on the Celestial set almost pointless.
Consider this, we are talking about the most common scenario here. It is the scenario people assume you’d try to fit a revenant with Celestial into. It would be a pretty weak build in that case.

You could given us more information about your own experience, the experience of your squad, the builds everyone else runs, the difficulties you still seem to have. People then might have told you that a build that is able to full holes where they open up isn’t the worst of choices.
Instead, you choose to get offended and deny any reasonable thing anybody said by bringing up meta tunnel vision.

Please show me where I got defensive over celestial? And no I didn’t get defensive I just do not trust people who trust the meta and that was about defensive stats not celestial. And clearly this is the dungeon, fracts, and raid area there was zero need for me to specify what content.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

I think this quote by Nike should answer all your questions and concerns:

Deviating from the meta is fine if it makes logical sense. If you’re doing it because snowflakes gotta snowflake and it doesn’t have any upside in the fight you’re being selfish and hurting your team.

If we’re talking raids or any other coordinated group content, celestial is obviously useless. Replace any class of your choosing from the standard meta composition by a celestial revenant, you will end up with demonstrably worse performance, period. This is why meta is meta.

For solo content, feel free to run whatever you want. You’re not draggning anyone down, because you’re playing solo. If you’re concerned about efficiency, I think it’s been stated clearly enough celestial is subpar compared to meta gear, but hey – do whatever you think is FUN.

As for your original question whether celestial allows you to swap roles, that’s also been answered: No.

Actually that can go both ways you can say it is also selfish to expect others to run boring meta builds that people do not want to play. Just because there is a 5 min difference does not make it selfish and considering I’m the one spending money on the game it is not selfish for me to run an effective non meta build as long as I’m providing the buffs I need and working at helping the group if you don’t like it then kick me.

What is selfish is thinking everyone else has to play how you want to. Here is the thing though there are those of us who go off the meta just fine without anyone noticing because in multiple mmorpgs because we do very welll.

There is a difference between your over used snowflake word and someone using an effective build.

And as far as everyone else it is not a fact and I will continue to say this over and over.

Ryou.2398:

What is selfish is thinking everyone else has to play how you want to. Here is the thing though there are those of us who go off the meta just fine without anyone noticing because in multiple mmorpgs because we do very welll.

There is a difference between your over used snowflake word and someone using an effective build.

And as far as everyone else it is not a fact and I will continue to say this over and over.

Yes and I see 5k dps damage dealers every day running T4 fractals and don’t bothet to call then iut on their terrible dps. Why? Because I can’t be bothered to waste 30 minutes of my life getting a perfect group to run the fractal content slightly faster. Doesn’t change the fact that they are getting carried by the rest of the group and they’ll never know they are terrbile.

That snowflake world is a concept. You might disapprove of how this concept gets used and missused by players, it doesn’t change the validity of the actual concept though.

You stating that defensive stats being not needed is no fact when literally every single person in this thread has tried to explain to you how one of the most basic game mechanics of GW2 works, is like me stating:“The world is flat.” It’s just as untrue and some believers will just as much not listen to reason.

Seems to be rather pointless to argue about philosophy. To me, people are free to run whichever stat combination they like. Just as others are free to exclude them from their group if they dislike said choice. You are free to like any builds you choose to, all though this doesn’t make them any more or any less efficient. I’ll leave it at that.

Back to the topic.
If what you are talking about was obvious and I missed that again, my apologies. Let’s assume you are talking about swapping your role during an actual boss fight and not picking a different role for each fight.
Your best choice would be something like Zealot. Allows to deal a decent even if not great amount of damage while also allowing you to heal others if needed. You can then keep some toughness food ready for when you have to take over for the tank.
If you are talking about having a different role for each boss then rather work on acquiring multiple sets of gear. All though, you could get Zealot as a starter while you work on adding more gear like a set of Berserker’s.

Vinceman.4572:

Ryou.2398:

It does not mean they are always the best, they are effective usually but far from perfect.

I don’t know to which builds you are referring to but I would assume that most of the people caring about min-maxing – which is the way of getting perfect builds – following qT and other proven builds in context with speedrunning. These builds don’t have to be perfect for you but they are in the objective manner because those players try to squeeze the best out of it therefore those builds are perfection in terms of mathematics.

Math hardly applies in real world scenarios though. These builds are being min maxed all the way through, tested under unrealistic conditions on the dps golem with any possible buff that you likely won’t have a 100% uptime, with rotations that can and even more will never be applied by players in a real world scenario.
You can min max all the way you want but it’s a fact that normal dps is more than sufficient for any content and it makes a lot more sense to let people play a build they are more comfortable with rather than forcing them into unrealistic min max builds thex feel uncomfortable with.
A dead dps means no dps. If you are content with playing these kinds of builds then that’s fine but don’t apply this elitist logic that anything worse will cause more stress on the group or even cause them to fail just because someone wants to play a bit more comfortable.

E: this doesn’t necessarily mean that Cele rev is a good idea. I just wanted to get a general point out there.

No there are no recent tests for cele gear on rev.

Entenkommando.5208:

Math hardly applies in real world scenarios though. These builds are being min maxed all the way through, tested under unrealistic conditions on the dps golem with any possible buff that you likely won’t have a 100% uptime, with rotations that can and even more will never be applied by players in a real world scenario.

Nobody denies that the dps golem isn’t picturing a real combat scenario. There is a reason why those dps numbers & rotations are called “benchmark”. But it’s undeniable that the same player will have better numbers with character 1 (meta style) than character 2 (snowflake style) provided that he is able to play the mechanics and don’t just stupidly/blindly hit on the target.

Entenkommando.5208:

You can min max all the way you want but it’s a fact that normal dps is more than sufficient for any content and it makes a lot more sense to let people play a build they are more comfortable with rather than forcing them into unrealistic min max builds thex feel uncomfortable with.

First of all, define “normal dps”. I doubt that a celestial <insert class> is helping a lot for raids and fractals. Nobody claimed that the OP has to change his build or is playing wrong. If it’s okay for him to play his wanted content like this and he finds likeminded people he should go on but never ever expect others to take him with them so that he can be comfortable in his playstyle while the other 2-9 players have to compensate his missing effectiveness.

Entenkommando.5208:

A dead dps means no dps. If you are content with playing these kinds of builds then that’s fine but don’t apply this elitist logic that anything worse will cause more stress on the group or even cause them to fail just because someone wants to play a bit more comfortable.

Nobody ever in this thread applied elitist logic. And the argument of “a dead dps means no dps” is not logical here because if you know how to the dps won’t die. And additionally the opposite is true for some raid encounters: No dps means dead dps.

Yes of course you still need some sort of dps. And as I said Cele can still be questionable.
One example: I like to play my condi nec with blood magic. It’s not the best dps, but I never die and can pull downed teammates out of the dps if they make a mistake.
This makes things a lot more enjoyable for the group, even if we don’t have the highest dps. My nec is still more than sufficient in terms of dps and I’m playing a build I feel comfortable with which again makes for a better playing atmosphere.

My problem is when people are excluded because someone thinks everything has to be meta builds for the fastest clear while this may even be a huge hindrance with a non familiar group.
I’d guess that you can say anything up to at least +-5k dps in these benchmarks is non impactful due to unrealistic testing, personal rotations and possibly added convenience. Sure these benchmarks may be useful for people who know every little detail in mechanics and never make mistakes, like you seem to be, but this doesn’t even apply to a small percentage of players and even less when joining random groups.

I didn’t want to attack you personally or anything, but I think unless you are playing in a fully pre-made group people should be a lot more open about free play styles in the forums instead of basically saying “go meta or go home”

Entenkommando.5208:

I never die

See, and others, like me never die as necro without using blood magic plus we are able to get downed mates up.

Entenkommando.5208:

This makes things a lot more enjoyable for the group, even if we don’t have the highest dps. My nec is still more than sufficient in terms of dps and I’m playing a build I feel comfortable with which again makes for a better playing atmosphere.

Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing personally against running blood magic. But when you have a druid in your group there is no logical reason to run bm. Maybe your druid could be bad but then you should change this spot with another dps and then run your bm. Many ppl in GW2 don’t understand when their group comp and single build is wasted as hell and they need so many more minutes to clear content although it’s not needed. It’s ok to play like this but please let others play their style and don’t join those groups because both sides will become bad-tempered.

Entenkommando.5208:

My problem is when people are excluded because someone thinks everything has to be meta builds for the fastest clear while this may even be a huge hindrance with a non familiar group.
I’d guess that you can say anything up to at least +-5k dps in these benchmarks is non impactful due to unrealistic testing, personal rotations and possibly added convenience. Sure these benchmarks may be useful for people who know every little detail in mechanics and never make mistakes, like you seem to be, but this doesn’t even apply to a small percentage of players and even less when joining random groups.

Ppl exclude themselves when joining a group and not meeting the requirements of it. Just go ahead form your own group but don’t expect others to rule with you only because you say “It is working too even though we have less dps/less meta.” You have to accept that there are ppl that do not want this. And yeah, not everything is black or white: While I’m ok with a third healer on Matthias with unexperienced pugs I’m not ok with it on other bosses.
And to the point of making mistakes: You can still do a lot of them when running in meta gear and on the other hand there are also mistakes where it won’t help if you either have zerker gear or nomad. Need to mention I’m speaking about some specific raid encounters and not faceroll fractals!

Henry.5713:

Seems to be rather pointless to argue about philosophy. To me, people are free to run whichever stat combination they like. Just as others are free to exclude them from their group if they dislike said choice. You are free to like any builds you choose to, all though this doesn’t make them any more or any less efficient. I’ll leave it at that.

Back to the topic.
If what you are talking about was obvious and I missed that again, my apologies. Let’s assume you are talking about swapping your role during an actual boss fight and not picking a different role for each fight.
Your best choice would be something like Zealot. Allows to deal a decent even if not great amount of damage while also allowing you to heal others if needed. You can then keep some toughness food ready for when you have to take over for the tank.
If you are talking about having a different role for each boss then rather work on acquiring multiple sets of gear. All though, you could get Zealot as a starter while you work on adding more gear like a set of Berserker’s.

Thank you hopefully something like this will work in fractals at least.

Entenkommando.5208:

Yes of course you still need some sort of dps. And as I said Cele can still be questionable.
One example: I like to play my condi nec with blood magic. It’s not the best dps, but I never die and can pull downed teammates out of the dps if they make a mistake.
This makes things a lot more enjoyable for the group, even if we don’t have the highest dps. My nec is still more than sufficient in terms of dps and I’m playing a build I feel comfortable with which again makes for a better playing atmosphere.

My problem is when people are excluded because someone thinks everything has to be meta builds for the fastest clear while this may even be a huge hindrance with a non familiar group.
I’d guess that you can say anything up to at least +-5k dps in these benchmarks is non impactful due to unrealistic testing, personal rotations and possibly added convenience. Sure these benchmarks may be useful for people who know every little detail in mechanics and never make mistakes, like you seem to be, but this doesn’t even apply to a small percentage of players and even less when joining random groups.

I didn’t want to attack you personally or anything, but I think unless you are playing in a fully pre-made group people should be a lot more open about free play styles in the forums instead of basically saying “go meta or go home”

This is a good example of what I was trying to say, I couldn’t agree more.

Power necro isn’t meta, but i would take that over celestial any day.

There is a difference between viable, and trash builds/stats. That like running carrion on a GS warrior, when GS applies no condi’s so half the stats are literally wasted.

Having healing power on a necro without BM is wasted.

Having condi dmg on a sword/sword mesmer is wasted.

Having condi dmg on a longbow ranger in general, is wasted.

I shouldn’t need to explain to you why these things are so when you could just read skill descriptions and easily find out.

As for ‘not every like to be squishy’, well duh. Run something that isn’t squishy but isn’t complete gutter. Like commander chrono, or valkyrie necro.

Edit: I meat to say longbow ranger, not warrior.

FrostDraco.8306:

Power necro isn’t meta, but i would take that over celestial any day.

There is a difference between viable, and trash builds/stats. That like running carrion on a GS warrior, when GS applies no condi’s so half the stats are literally wasted.

Having healing power on a necro without BM is wasted.

Having condi dmg on a sword/sword mesmer is wasted.

Having condi dmg on a longbow warrior in general, is wasted.

I shouldn’t need to explain to you why these things are so when you could just read skill descriptions and easily find out.

As for ‘not every like to be squishy’, well duh. Run something that isn’t squishy but isn’t complete gutter. Like commander chrono, or valkyrie necro.

If you read my first reply I thanks everyone for showing me why celestial was not a good choice and accepted it but instead people like yourself keep making assumptions about someone you do not know without even reading anything beyond the topic.

I never disagreed with what your saying, in fact I implied effective build several times some of you need to just get off your high horse eltist attitudes and stop making assumptions about what kind of builds Others want to do.

In no way shape or from did I ever imply I wanted to do something like build a confirmation with no condi gear. Nor did I need an explanation of how skills work.

And people wonder why they consider do many in mmorpgs to be elitists.

Its interesting how people on GW2 define what is “useless” and what is “good”. In Dark Souls, the best players are those that have low dps (fist only), rely on nothing except understanding game mechanics, and do not rely on stats (naked). High dps means you don’t not need to know how to reliably counter every boss mechanic 100% of the time, those players specialize in cheesing and bursting down encounters. Low dps, means the boss fight drags out for long enough that you will be forced to experience every attack multiple times and your forced to actually learn them.

Celestial has more than enough DPS, to reliably beat all PvE content. The stat combination is extremely useful in all 3 game modes: PvP (before it was removed), WvW, and PvE. The stat combination, allows your character to be self-sufficient against all situations. Excellent stat for dueling, for roaming, for PvE, and in the past excellent stat for PvP. Meta builds on the other hand are one trick ponies, that optimize one main trait of the build. One small nerf, to their one trick and they fall from the meta.