Guild Wars 2

I am an Arah dungeon seller.

As of right now, arah dungeon selling is in a horrible state, not only for the consumer, but also for the seller.

Arah is full of exploits. Obvious exploits. Skipping lupicus, skipping directly to light orb, killing bosses while phase-shifted, and more. It is ridiculous.

The worst part? Arenanet hasn’t done ANYTHING about it. Skipping content isn’t only in the dungeon selling community. Skipping lupicus has become the new norm for pugs. Popular guilds are posting videos of these skips and exploits since “every trick is the industry standard.” Arenanet made an official statement that dungeon selling is allowed as long as the content wasn’t exploited, yet people do it every day.

So how is this harmful?

This has stirred rebellion in the people. People are sick of Arenanet not doing anything about people cheating, so they destroy the instances. People join parties and kick the host. People abuse the merge party bug in order to instantly destroy instances.

Buyers are often out money since dungeon runners aren’t very sympathetic after being kicked. Kickers can face account suspensions. And sellers face the frustration of all of their work for nothing.

This is especially bad in the few cases where dungeon sellers are legitimate, meaning they don’t exploit the run. When I solo arah, I don’t skip or trivialize content. I play by the rules, but since some people assume I am an exploiter, many of my dungeons runs end with nothing.

Arenanet needs to do something. It is ridiculous that these exploits have been in the dungeon for so long and are so widely known, but no action has been taken to fix them or to ban the exploiters.

Moreover, Arenanet needs to hold a firm stance. If they advocate dungeon selling, they need to put something in place that protects the seller and the buyer. I am willing to pay some gold in order to open up some kind of special instance. Maybe 1g to open up an instance where I am the only one allowed, but after the game engine recognizes me at a certain spot in the dungeon, I can post in lfg where people are notified that I am at the final boss and will be deducted a specified amount of gold upon entering my party. Anything.

So Arenanet, please help the dungeon selling community. The current market is in ruins. Sellers exploiting dungeons, griefers kicking legitimate sellers, buyers getting ripped off. all is vain.

And this is any different from skipping Kholer in AC, how? Kholer is placed in the middle of the dungeon, as is Lupicus, the only difference is the manner in skipping the former is more obvious.

Look in the mirror, you’re being hypocritical.

It would be nice if someone in the community setup a website to track buyers and sellers and allow for rankings and ratings of both buyers and sellers of gw2 services… This would provide reputable sellers an opportunity to make the deal with a group in honorable previous agreed to terms without worrying about these LFG tool concerns mentioned above. Also this wouldn’t rely on Anet someday getting around to help out this small niche. If you think about how much money anet makes from these dungeon runs, you can imagine where this fix would be on their priority list…

Not affecting gem store = Ignored.

Am I the only one who sees the irony in “Zhaitan” being an Arah seller? XD

But on topic, I don’t think much will be done anytime soon. ANet may have said dungeon selling is “OK”, but I think they mean that in the sense that it’s not a bannable offense. ANet has had a track record of not liking runs and skips dating all the way back to GW1; they just can’t eradicate it completely because players inevitably find a new way to cheese/skip content, and they can’t fix everything without making the game all but unenjoyable for normal players.

castle.3689:

And this is any different from skipping Kholer in AC, how? Kholer is placed in the middle of the dungeon, as is Lupicus, the only difference is the manner in skipping the former is more obvious.

Look in the mirror, you’re being hypocritical.

I must have missed something because I don’t see any mention of Kholer before your post.

Nice try though.

Darkobra.6439:

castle.3689:

And this is any different from skipping Kholer in AC, how? Kholer is placed in the middle of the dungeon, as is Lupicus, the only difference is the manner in skipping the former is more obvious.

Look in the mirror, you’re being hypocritical.

I must have missed something because I don’t see any mention of Kholer before your post.

Nice try though.

I agree. Don’t be discouraged and keep at though, you’ll get better at understanding fundamental logic one day, I’m sure!

I agree with the title but not the content, I disagree with people selling spots for arah. It gives skilled players to tackle lupi and make some gold (true). However it also encourages groups of 3’s forming a full party and getting to the last boss ONLY to kick the remaining players and sell their spots to split it amongst themselves.

Skipping is fine as long as it isn’t more than 30% of the dungeon. The goal is to pick your battles, not avoid everything. Or it will become meaningless.

Honestly, I see the point you’re trying to make, but on the other hand I have very little sympathy for the practice of “selling runs”

It was a typical practice in GW1, and it’s a semi-typical practice in GW2, and I don’t blame the sellers for making an anet-sanctioned buck. Heck, I sold my share of desert runs back in the day whenever i was low on platinum.

However

The entire concept of “catching a run” denotes a far greater problem with both games, and only one of those has any liklihood of being addressed.

You are trivializing the player experience, and by virtue of allowing players to hop in to a dungeon at the last minute and claim dungeon rewards you are trivializing those rewards. This is a problem with the design of the content, and not with the players.

I believe dungeon selling does need to change. I believe it shouldn’t be practical or feasible. I believe people should have to earn their own achievements and skins. I believe that content should exist to engage and reward those players at a high enough skill level to regularly sell runs in such a way that there is no incentive to sell runs.

I believe that doing content for other people while they AFK is an indication that something in the design is fundamentally broken and needs to be fixed. Until then, I refuse to blame either the sellers or buyers for taking the paths that they do.

You’r asking for the dungeons to be fixed so that only “legit runs” are possible. In my opinion, a “legit run” doesn’t include abusing the poorly designed dungeon mechanics to solo five person instances, and if and when dungeons are fixed they should be fixed to eliminate that possibility, they should require participants to be present for an entire run to claim tokens and achievements (but not gold, as you’ll still have droppers now and then) and should essentially be structured and played as it says on the door “a five person instance”

Until then, good luck with your business, but keep in mind that you operate in a borderline exploitative business in the first place. If dungeons are fixed, they aren’t going to be fixed with that business in mind.

castle.3689:

Darkobra.6439:

castle.3689:

And this is any different from skipping Kholer in AC, how? Kholer is placed in the middle of the dungeon, as is Lupicus, the only difference is the manner in skipping the former is more obvious.

Look in the mirror, you’re being hypocritical.

I must have missed something because I don’t see any mention of Kholer before your post.

Nice try though.

I agree. Don’t be discouraged and keep at though, you’ll get better at understanding fundamental logic one day, I’m sure!

Kholer is designed to be an optional boss, Lupicus isn’t.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Kholer is designed to be an optional boss, Lupicus isn’t.

Like Kholer, Lupi in P1 and P2 does not require you to kill him to activate the next event trigger. This makes him optional in those two paths. If he wasn’t, the event triggers would be chained together like they are in P3 and P4. By design, it’s no different than how Kholer’s event isn’t tied to the other dungeon objectives.

I’m actually feeling happy that people like you get booted out for selling a dungeon path. You people need to learn how to play a MMO. This is not a business. And please, stop complaining about your time effort. Nobody forced you to go to a dungeon solo just to sell it afterwards. That was your choice, a lame one in fact.

Although I agree that Arah needs some serious fixing. And the Alphard change was kinda lame. I’ve done the “new” p2 couple of times but the Alphard combat is like nothing in the game so far. Dat instant kill.

castle.3689:

And this is any different from skipping Kholer in AC, how? Kholer is placed in the middle of the dungeon, as is Lupicus, the only difference is the manner in skipping the former is more obvious.

Not sure if trolling.

Kohler kills reward the party with an additional WP and some crappy loot. Skipping Kohler is technically possibly by running straight past him, ignoring his aggro, running over a bridge that is always open, running through an archway that is always open and continuing through the dungeon. Players can avoid his aggro so as to not have an unfortunate accident with his pull ability. There is no glitching or unofficial jumping puzzles required.

Bonus event. Same as Lupi in Paths 1 and 2.

Paths 3 and 4 Arah have this giant closed door (you really can’t miss it) that is intended to physically block your progress through the dungeon. It is designed to only open once you have killed Lupi.

Required event. People use glitches in order to avoid fighting Lupi in paths 3 and 4 – which is in direct violation of:

Zhaitan.2578:

Arenanet made an official statement that dungeon selling is allowed as long as the content wasn’t exploited, yet people do it every day.

castle.3689:

fundamental logic

Don’t be mad because you’re not skilled enough to solo a dungeon.

The reason you see more sellers than runners is because normal groups fill up a lot faster – try posting a group and see how quick it fills up.

They don’t need to ban selling, they need to ban exploiters ruining the market for skilled PvErs.

I’m in same boat as OP, no point selling Arah ‘cause people just kick thinking you exploit, and there’s that many doing it it’s pitiful profit I may aswell just give the spots to friends.

They could change it so you have to kill all the bosses, but I don’t think people would be too happy about that.

Hint: You can hide Dungeon Sellers and their groups by blocking them.

/block Charactername
is the same as right click → block

Another cool side effect: They won’t seem to be able to join your groups.

With such a name OP, you missed such an opportunity to make a fun light thread such zhaitan continues to dissapoint me, even after death

zamalek.2154:

There’s no difference between jumping up a wall to and walking around if it means taking a detour to avoid/skip the boss. Deep down, you know this to be true. You’re making use of the game’s engine and terrain to bypass optional content (since Lupi’s death isn’t required for continuation of dungeon objectives, it must be considered to be an optional trigger), just like how you jump the roofs in HOTW or SE.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Flissy.4093:

Don’t be mad because you’re not skilled enough to solo a dungeon.

The reason you see more sellers than runners is because normal groups fill up a lot faster – try posting a group and see how quick it fills up.

They don’t need to ban selling, they need to ban exploiters ruining the market for skilled PvErs.

I’m in same boat as OP, no point selling Arah ‘cause people just kick thinking you exploit, and there’s that many doing it it’s pitiful profit I may aswell just give the spots to friends.

Skilled PvErs?DDDDDD
Please, you’ve learned 2-3 mechanics, does that make you skilled?
Everyone can run full berserker don’t be ridiculous.
I especially love you “skilled” people go out of combat leaving fire elemental at the first boss at arah p2 xD

Nice joke bro, you made my day.

Learning mechanics definitely does give some form of skill curve to content. How is a player who can solo Lupicus without a single hit of damage the same skill level as someone who gets hit by every grub attack and causes their group to wipe by triggering bubbles in phase 3?

I don’t even use the Fire Ele. Hell, I don’t even have powders as Im expecting them to be unusable any day, just like most consumables.

With all the mergers around it’s obvious that everyone does the jp in p3/p4. It’a vicious cycle. People kick sellers because they think they “avoid”(if you know what I mean) certain parts of the path and sellers do it because it’s better to risk losing 15min than 25-30 or even more in p4.
In my opinion the jp is intended because every class can do it. Swimming is not because thief/ele/mes are the only ones that can do it.

castle.3689:

There’s no difference between…

I had another reply; honestly though, this discussion is pointless. By extending your logic much further even activities such as murder are acceptable.

zamalek.2154:

castle.3689:

There’s no difference between…

I had another reply; honestly though, this discussion is pointless. By extending your logic much further even activities such as murder are acceptable.

Wow, that’s a little dramatic. What a comparison!

Anet is okay with selling dungeons as long as no exploits are used and folks were not kicked from the party. Most legit sellers do not skip Lupi. Case closed.

ChaosKirin.1328:

No one should be selling spots in a dungeon run. I hope they ban it.

There is literally no other way for skilled players to make extra money in this game. In fact, following a bunch of chumps around pressing 1 on champions is one of the most profitable practices in the game. Selling runs was also a common practice in guild wars 1.

It also literally doesn’t effect you at all. Calm down and git gud.

LittleLepton.8915:

Most legit sellers do not skip Lupi. Case closed.

Surely all legit sellers do not skip, else they aren’t legit?

Flissy.4093:

LittleLepton.8915:

Most legit sellers do not skip Lupi. Case closed.

Surely all legit sellers do not skip, else they aren’t legit?

Er, yes, that’s what I meant, lol.

Only buy from folks who killed Lupi!

Moral of the story.

zamalek.2154:

castle.3689:

There’s no difference between…

I had another reply; honestly though, this discussion is pointless. By extending your logic much further even activities such as murder are acceptable.

No, you don’t. Let me be clear that I don’t sell Arah and I’m not advocating anything here; I’m simply pointing out that there isn’t all that much of a difference between one or the other, which people (like yourself) are choosing to ignore just because it fits their agenda. If you’re thinking “surely it must be an oversight and Anet did not intend for P1 and P2 Lupi to be optional”, then likewise Anet must not have intended for a mesmer’s feedback to be able to reflect his projectiles back for half his health and trivializing the encounter. There are more pressing problems with the game than this, and the only reason why it’s garnering so much attention is because of greed—people who want to sell Arah will find any and all means to discredit other sellers to monopolize Arah selling. Most, if not all legitimate buyers will not care whether Lupi has been skipped or not; the ones who do are actual Arah sellers looking to eliminate competition, and join parties to troll/merge. Just face the facts.

castle.3689:

then likewise Anet must not have intended for a mesmer’s feedback to be able to reflect his projectiles back for half his health and trivializing the encounter.

Anet programs three types of projectiles. Reflectable, blockable, indestructable. The ones they use are intentionally chosen.

FWIW, when I sell arah paths I don’t use any reflects to kill Lupicus. Though my Sword #5 block does a lot of work.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

castle.3689:

then likewise Anet must not have intended for a mesmer’s feedback to be able to reflect his projectiles back for half his health and trivializing the encounter.

Anet programs three types of projectiles. Reflectable, blockable, indestructable. The ones they use are intentionally chosen.

FWIW, when I sell arah paths I don’t use any reflects to kill Lupicus. Though my Sword #5 block does a lot of work.

They could have made the projectiles reflectable but do no damage or reduced damage. Certain reflects (Risen Wizard’s spin) do significantly reduced damage, or no damage (Champion Flame Legion Shaman in the Uncategorized Fractal).

castle.3689:

Darkobra.6439:

castle.3689:

And this is any different from skipping Kholer in AC, how? Kholer is placed in the middle of the dungeon, as is Lupicus, the only difference is the manner in skipping the former is more obvious.

Look in the mirror, you’re being hypocritical.

I must have missed something because I don’t see any mention of Kholer before your post.

Nice try though.

I agree. Don’t be discouraged and keep at though, you’ll get better at understanding fundamental logic one day, I’m sure!

You personally accused him of “Skipping Kholer” because he wanted something done about Arah skipping.

Please back this up with facts that he, himself, IS skipping Kholer or please don’t bother dragging this thread off topic.

If you wanted to say that Kholer shouldn’t be optional, that’s fine. False accusations with no proof just make it look like you don’t have any defence against this reasoning so you’re playing the finger-pointing game to take it from one subject to another.

Maybe you feel that you can’t handle Arah once the exploits are patched?

Darkobra.6439:

Sockpuppeting is a thing now?

Yeah, that’s what I thought. No evidence meaning you’re acting purely out of emotion.

If you’re going to struggle in Arah, just give me a message in game and I’ll show you how to play. You don’t need to exploit to beat it and exploits SHOULD be fixed. It’ll make you a better player in the long-run.

Darkobra.6439:

You don’t need to exploit to beat it and exploits SHOULD be fixed. It’ll make you a better player in the long-run.

QFT.

Exactly why I pitched in this thread. I have actually only done P1 and P3 – legitimately, with friends – and really enjoyed the challenge of the Lupi fight (contrary to those false accusations regarding my agenda). Imagine someone new to the dungeon missing out on that challenge because everyone exploits/skips Lupi (I haven’t PUGged Arah, but I would imagine people do pressure each other into exploiting – just like the old AC).

zamalek.2154:

Darkobra.6439:

You don’t need to exploit to beat it and exploits SHOULD be fixed. It’ll make you a better player in the long-run.

QFT.

Exactly why I pitched in this thread. I have actually only done P1 and P3 – legitimately, with friends – and really enjoyed the challenge of the Lupi fight (contrary to those false accusations regarding my agenda that you mentioned). Imagine someone new to the dungeon missing out on that challenge because everyone exploits/skips Lupi (I haven’t PUGged Arah, but I would imagine people do pressure each other into exploiting – just like the old AC).

I don’t pug Arah anymore now that I prefer buying it, but I never encountered pugs trying to skip Lupi when I did. And my guild mates that I ran with never did it either. I’m not sure when skipping Lupi became a thing, but it’s sad, nonetheless. The fight is interesting.

They don’t need to fix the arah exploits for the sellers or buyers. They need to fix it because it’s broken, badly. Every single path had exploits that remove the need for skill and dramatically reduce the time needed to finish.

Path 1, the only boss that is fought legit is the Crystalline Entities. Ooze and Shaggroth are exploited, then everything else is skipped with a JP.

Path 2, everything is killed from underwater or the party is phase shifted and unkillable for the entire dungeon. Even the boat skip was never fixed like they thought it was.

Path 3 and 4, you use a jp to skip straight to lupi, skipping 2 bosses in p3 and 3 bosses in p4. Plus Simin is easily bugged, then another jp to get to the end.

It’s a broken dungeon and needs fixed. All it needs is a few invisible walls and some boss checks for the main exploits. Then they could take look at bosses like ooze, Shaggroth and Simin. They did a well enough job fixing Belka, Abomination and Alphard, now they just need to do the rest.

Shaggroth exploited?

Perma stun lock. Exploited is probably a harsh term for that one, but it does completely negate the mechanics of the fight after you first spawn him.

I consider it a legitimate and intelligent tactic. You have to time imobalizes and make sure you have enough. I suppose it would be better if he still attacked why imobile. Or the adds continued to spawn. But thats just a case of anet not thinking of the counters to their mechanics. It should stay but id be all for the tar being a threat while imobile.

Not intelligent if you use some consumables like some people (myself included) do. Then again I think the original fight with the constantly going back into the ground and having to stand on the tar spouts is annoying.

Having the boss not look like an elongated kitten when immobilised and actually fighting back wouldn’t be a bad change though. The “shoggroth” hardly lives up to its source mythos.

“Dungeon Selling” need to stop !
it is stupid consent !! and it is actually exploit ! ’wts arah p4 30g" are you insane ?
i never buy Dungeon paths and i never will ! hope everyone stop buying so you lazy ppl will actually have to idk “team play” the idea of Dungeons is team play !

HAHA 30g!

Regardless of if you saw that, it doesn’t mean anyone was buying it.

Which reminds me, WTS linen scraps 2g/ea

guanlongwucaii.3162:

Not intelligent if you use some consumables like some people (myself included) do.

The idea remains intelligent, regardless of execution.

I guess so. I was pretty impressed when I first saw the tactic in action. Who’d have thought that the shoggroth needs to move all the way back to its spawning burrow to hide?

Since I’ve started buying, I’ve seen the issues you’re mentioning here, OP, and I agree with you that they need to be fixed. I think the exploits will be eventually, but I wouldn’t be surprised if people just find new ways to exploit, e.g. the p2 ship jump was fixed and people found another way almost immediately. Your idea about paying extra for a special instance might help, but charging gold to open an instance is ridiculous from the perspective of any non-selling party, and I don’t see ANet making those kinds of changes just to accommodate path sellers.

If you’re looking for some relief from the madness, I suggest you focus on trying to find some regulars to buy from you. I have a regular seller for each of the three paths, and all of them seem to have other regular buyers on their lists, so when they finish the run, instead of posting an LFG and opening themselves up to kickers, they just PM their regulars and get it done.

Good luck.

To those who say dungeon selling needs to stop:
I buy Arah daily. I love that buying it is an option. I understand that I’m getting rewards that I didn’t earn in terms of participating in the dungeon content, and I was a bit hesitant to do it at first, but I decided to go ahead and try it for a number of reasons.

I already have a full set of Arah armor on my main. I earned the tokens for it by running Arah myself, but it took a long time to get the whole set because I only have enough play time for 1 path per day. On top of that, I usually had to pug it, and about 10% of the time the run wasn’t completed for whatever reason.

Now I want another set for an alt, and I realize that I’m not entitled to an easier journey than I had the first time around, but honestly I don’t much care. There is an easier way available, ANet has said it’s okay, and I have the gold to do it. After the number of runs I’ve done, it’s not really fun any more, and if I can get 3 paths per day and still have my 1-2 hours of play time to do something else, I’m gonna do that.

Dungeon sellers could disappear from the face of tyria and not 1 person would notice or really care.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Dungeon sellers could disappear from the face of tyria and not 1 person would notice or really care.

Pretty sure the buyers would notice and care.

spoj.9672:

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Dungeon sellers could disappear from the face of tyria and not 1 person would notice or really care.

Pretty sure the buyers would notice and care.

ya heaven forbid they have to learn the fights by youtube instead of sleeping through the fight.

castle.3689:

And this is any different from skipping Kholer in AC, how? Kholer is placed in the middle of the dungeon, as is Lupicus, the only difference is the manner in skipping the former is more obvious.

Look in the mirror, you’re being hypocritical.

You can’t be serious. Kholer is an optional boss, Lupicus is not. Kholer can be skipped by simply not fighting him. Lupicus is skipped by bugging outside, or on top of the map.

All you people crying about dungeon sellers need to grow up and stop. ANET SAID countless times selling runs is ok. It was ok for over all of gw1.

the ones who exploit will eventually get what’s coming to them, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe you won’t see it (unless they bring back dhuum’s ban animation which would be epic) but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

Until then if you see a person exploit then report them, if not don’t join their run, but stop acting like they are a terrible person when they are only 1) providing a service to the community and 2) making themselves some $ too.

I don’t think anyone is saying that people selling paths are terrible people. You shouldn’t be making strawman arguments.

The real issue is not with the players selling paths (it’s a perfectly fine business), but with the current game situation where the business seems to dominate certain dungeons (specifically Arah). And I do think it should be addressed.