Guild Wars 2

So not so long ago, the costs for ascended gear from fractals were changed. What does everyone think about the new system?

As someone who plays fractals every day, and wants to be able to gear up alts in ascended gear, I like that I can get ascended gear from fractals. Some observations and thoughts from me. I am interested in what others have to say:

1) I have seen exactly zero ascended boxes drop from the daily fractal chests since the change. I can accept this is just RNG, but I would be curious to know if others also have a perception (perception =/= reality) of low or lower ascended box drops after the change.

2) I find the cost of a full set of armour in the new system to be quite high, and we have already seen the market for silk scrap increase rather significantly since the change. I suspect the same may also be true for thick leather and mithril. In fact, the leather farm has done nothing to alter the price of leather, but this is a side topic. I say only that cost of the base materials is only going up, so ascended gear from fractals will only become more and more expensive. I am not certain they have achieved the publicly stated aim to make it cheaper.

For example, if you want to purchase a full set of ascended armour through Bling-9009, you need:
2a) 10k mithril ore, 6k silk scrap and 4k thick leather sections for heavy armour
2b) 2k mithril ore, 6k silk scrap and 9.2k thick leather sections for medium armour
2c) 2k mithril ore, 21k silk scrap and 4k thick leather sections for light armour

It almost seems like the whole plan along was to boost the market price of base materials, and that the “publicly stated intentions” were the bait for us to bite on.

Current market prices for 20 Grandmaster Marks are, according to the wiki:
2d) 378g 26s 40c for 20 armoursmith marks
2e) 416g 68s 00c for 20 leatherworker marks
2f) 421g 92s 00c for 20 tailor marks

These prices are out of line with simple crafting. For example, GW2efficiency says a full set of Ferratus’s heavy armour is 363g 63s 20c and to this one must add 30 ectos and 6 insignias (75g 71s 58c for Berserker’s) and we see the “savings” is disturbingly small.

This is based upon current pricing, but we can see easily that the markets for the 3 base materials are only going up. So the new option actually seems like a bad option.

I would be happy to see other detailed explanations, using market prices, either to refute my concerns, or to support them.

zero box drops from fractals is anecdotal.

I’ve had one since that patch. I’ve also seen a guildy get one.
I’ve also seen a pug get 2 in one island.

Using the marks is still a should be a decent chunk cheaper than crafting. Which may have stimulated a market.. or its just coincidence. However you do need the tokens and whatever else from the game mode when using marks, so cheaper is relative ( but what else to use those tokens on..?)

edit:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Special:RunQuery/Base_ingredients_query&Base_ingredients%5Bitem%5D=Zojja%27s%20Breastplate&Base_ingredients%5Bid%5D=7940&Base_ingredients%5Bquantity%5D=1&wpRunQuery=true

Zojja’s breastplate is 86g 66s 33c to craft..

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Special:RunQuery/Base_ingredients_query&Base_ingredients%5Bitem%5D=Grandmaster%20Armorsmith%27s%20Mark&Base_ingredients%5Bid%5D=12031&Base_ingredients%5Bquantity%5D=1&wpRunQuery=true

1 mark is 18g 85s 40c
4 marks is 75g 39s 20c.

+4g to buy the armour piece:
79g 39s 20c using marks
vs
86g 66s 33c to craft.

Looking at a full set, it may be cheaper to craft, but thats likely due to shoulders/gloves/boots using less materials to craft, but still using 3 marks.
without comparing all 18 armour pieces.. I’d guess your full set numbers are because some of them are cheaper to craft, but not all pieces.

Ascended boxes do still drop, so I suppose nothing happened there. With regard to the cost of armor boxes from Bling, I’m fine with that. Before the change, they were easily at twice the price of crafted items. If it’s more or less even now, I’m fine with that.

I only crafted 1 out of my eight sets of asc. The change doesn’t really affect me much as I only really get my armor off raids and t4 fractal drops. I just got a drop yesterday in fractals so I don’t think the rates have changed.

Its a poor change in my opinion. Price aside, the ascended vendors were introduced specifically as an alternative to crafting ascended, and yet the new recipes for the marks requires more crafting than ever to “purchase” ascended. This change defeated the point of purchasing ascended armor

I believe the change was inevitable. Why?

1. Anet wants Ascended to continue stimulating the economy.
2. The game is aging.
3. Some people have stopped playing.
4. Ascended is the (atm at least) final gear tier.
5. ANet has added a couple of ways to gain the top gear without needing to craft.

All of these factors were going to sooner or later cause a serious reduction in demand which would lower the prices paid for mats. This move postpones that happening. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it adopted for raid-available Ascended as well.

2 armor boxes in my last 2 days of doing t4s. Don’t know why everyone immediately assumes drop rates were nerfed the moment they go a day without a drop.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ascended is the (atm at least) final gear tier.

Atm?

A-t-kittening-m?

I’m staring down the barrel of trying to level leatherworking and then craft ascended armor for my main, at ruinous expense. The idea that all that work could be undone with the addition of another tier is incredibly disheartening.

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ascended is the (atm at least) final gear tier.

Atm?

A-t-kittening-m?

I’m staring down the barrel of trying to level leatherworking and then craft ascended armor for my main, at ruinous expense. The idea that all that work could be undone with the addition of another tier is incredibly disheartening.

Yeah, I know. I remember when Exotic was supposed to be the final tier, so I know what ANet statements are worth. I hope they don’t but I no longer rely on ANet’s word.

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ascended is the (atm at least) final gear tier.

Atm?

A-t-kittening-m?

I’m staring down the barrel of trying to level leatherworking and then craft ascended armor for my main, at ruinous expense. The idea that all that work could be undone with the addition of another tier is incredibly disheartening.

anet has stated it will always be the best gear in the game. dont worry.

The one to Rule.2593:

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ascended is the (atm at least) final gear tier.

Atm?

A-t-kittening-m?

I’m staring down the barrel of trying to level leatherworking and then craft ascended armor for my main, at ruinous expense. The idea that all that work could be undone with the addition of another tier is incredibly disheartening.

anet has stated it will always be the best gear in the game. dont worry.

Actually no, they haven’t. They were very careful to avoid any definite statements. There’s likely much more loopholes existing in their promises now than there were when they introduced ascended.
It doesn’t seem they plan to introduce any new tier anytime soon, but it doesn’t mean they won’t change their mind later. They certainly did change their minds on many other things.

Remember, that they said once that the best tier should be easy to obtain, and yet they are now changing ascended to be more and more of a grind. They changed their mind on it.
Nothing is safe.

Astralporing.1957:

The one to Rule.2593:

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ascended is the (atm at least) final gear tier.

Atm?

A-t-kittening-m?

I’m staring down the barrel of trying to level leatherworking and then craft ascended armor for my main, at ruinous expense. The idea that all that work could be undone with the addition of another tier is incredibly disheartening.

anet has stated it will always be the best gear in the game. dont worry.

Actually no, they haven’t. They were very careful to avoid any definite statements. There’s likely much more loopholes existing in their promises now than there were when they introduced ascended.
It doesn’t seem they plan to introduce any new tier anytime soon, but it doesn’t mean they won’t change their mind later. They certainly did change their minds on many other things.

Remember, that they said once that the best tier should be easy to obtain, and yet they are now changing ascended to be more and more of a grind. They changed their mind on it.
Nothing is safe.

Changed to be more and more of a grind? What?
It’s easier than ever to obtain ascended gear

Adzekul.3104:

Current market prices for 20 Grandmaster Marks are, according to the wiki:
2d) 378g 26s 40c for 20 armoursmith marks
2e) 416g 68s 00c for 20 leatherworker marks
2f) 421g 92s 00c for 20 tailor marks

Just to remind you that to get a full set of Ascended armor using the “old” version took 44 days minimum, now it’s 29 days minimum. It also required 354 liquid gold (!!!) plus 117 Integrated Fractal Matrices, that’s another 340 gold extra for a total of 694 gold.

You can say all you want about not liking the new system, however, the truth is that the new system is by far cheaper than the previous one. Even if you buy everything from the TP to level to 500, the difference is huge. The “new” price isn’t a problem at all

No way i am buying the gear from fractals like this.

maddoctor.2738:

Adzekul.3104:

Current market prices for 20 Grandmaster Marks are, according to the wiki:
2d) 378g 26s 40c for 20 armoursmith marks
2e) 416g 68s 00c for 20 leatherworker marks
2f) 421g 92s 00c for 20 tailor marks

Just to remind you that to get a full set of Ascended armor using the “old” version took 44 days minimum, now it’s 29 days minimum. It also required 354 liquid gold (!!!) plus 117 Integrated Fractal Matrices, that’s another 340 gold extra for a total of 694 gold.

You can say all you want about not liking the new system, however, the truth is that the new system is by far cheaper than the previous one. Even if you buy everything from the TP to level to 500, the difference is huge. The “new” price isn’t a problem at all

The old way of purchasing ascended gear was always marketed as having a high markup over crafting it. That was the price we paid to not have to craft it. Now we pay the same amount, or more, to purhcase it, yet have more crafting than just regular crafting ascended armor,

I don’t know whether it is cheaper or more expensive to buy ascended gear via fractals or to craft it and the truth is I don’t care. Because yet again the fractal rewards system is overly complex and requires analyzing by the player just to get their reward.

Should I buy discounted keys? Should I buy boxes of the tp? Is it cheaper to buy ascended or craft it? Should I try for a random golden fractal skin or should I pay a lot more to buy a guaranteed one? Should I attune rings before salvaging? Should I infuse them? How many fractal relics do I have if I convert my pristine relics?

Why? Why can’t I just play fractals and have straight forward rewards? What part of this is fun? Take a hint from raids, 1 currency, and straightforward rewards.

thrag.9740:

Why can’t I just play fractals and have straight forward rewards?

I am confused — why can’t you? Take your loot and sell it; buy what you want instead. That’s what most of my friends do and they are just as happy as I am — the market is efficient enough that there’s mostly very little difference between paying attention to the nuances and not — you can make more by being careful, but you aren’t losing much by ignoring the market.

the cahnges are pretty ok imho the value of asc armor had dropped really low with asc being so easily obtainable

Astralporing.1957:

The one to Rule.2593:

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ascended is the (atm at least) final gear tier.

Atm?

A-t-kittening-m?

I’m staring down the barrel of trying to level leatherworking and then craft ascended armor for my main, at ruinous expense. The idea that all that work could be undone with the addition of another tier is incredibly disheartening.

anet has stated it will always be the best gear in the game. dont worry.

Actually no, they haven’t. They were very careful to avoid any definite statements. There’s likely much more loopholes existing in their promises now than there were when they introduced ascended.
It doesn’t seem they plan to introduce any new tier anytime soon, but it doesn’t mean they won’t change their mind later. They certainly did change their minds on many other things.

Remember, that they said once that the best tier should be easy to obtain, and yet they are now changing ascended to be more and more of a grind. They changed their mind on it.
Nothing is safe.

Actually they have. and on multiple occasions. just because you’re salty about recent changes doesn’t make you right.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

thrag.9740:

Why can’t I just play fractals and have straight forward rewards?

I am confused — why can’t you? Take your loot and sell it; buy what you want instead. That’s what most of my friends do and they are just as happy as I am — the market is efficient enough that there’s mostly very little difference between paying attention to the nuances and not — you can make more by being careful, but you aren’t losing much by ignoring the market.

Yes you can do that. But there are at least 5 fractal currencies (relics, pristine relics, golden fractal relics, research pages, integrated matrices), more if you include gold and infusions. The entire system is needlessly complicated.

Here is a reasonable question I can ask. How many fractals do I have to do to fully complete the golden weapon collection (assuming average rng on drops)? Look at all the redundant currencies you have to consider. First you have golden fractal relics, which are just bought from pristine and gold. Then you have integrated matrices which are just matrices and regular relics. Why? Why not just have a straightforward cost in terms of matrices, relics, pristines and gold? Why do we have to do all these pointless conversions?

IMO anything that pushes up the price of Mithril and Silk is good. These changes may hurt a bit, but fractals undermining the economy hurts a lot.

The one to Rule.2593:

Actually they have. and on multiple occasions.

I’d advise you to look up what exactly they actually said. You’ll be surprised how many loopholes each of those statements had.
If they’ll someday decide to introduce a new tier, they won’t break any promises, and won’t go against any statement that weren’t already invalidated by introduction of ascended. And that’s without even considering possible level cap raise.

Neither of those are likely to happen now, that’s true, but if you believe there’s any definite statement precluding one of those from happening, you weren’t paying attention. And if you believe that even if such statement existed, it would stop Anet if they decided they want to change it, you’re naive.

thrag.9740:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

thrag.9740:

Why can’t I just play fractals and have straight forward rewards?

I am confused — why can’t you? Take your loot and sell it; buy what you want instead. That’s what most of my friends do and they are just as happy as I am — the market is efficient enough that there’s mostly very little difference between paying attention to the nuances and not — you can make more by being careful, but you aren’t losing much by ignoring the market.

Yes you can do that. But there are at least 5 fractal currencies (relics, pristine relics, golden fractal relics, research pages, integrated matrices), more if you include gold and infusions. The entire system is needlessly complicated.

Here is a reasonable question I can ask. How many fractals do I have to do to fully complete the golden weapon collection (assuming average rng on drops)? Look at all the redundant currencies you have to consider. First you have golden fractal relics, which are just bought from pristine and gold. Then you have integrated matrices which are just matrices and regular relics. Why? Why not just have a straightforward cost in terms of matrices, relics, pristines and gold? Why do we have to do all these pointless conversions?

You don’t have to do them for ascended crafting, which is the topic of this thread.

And you could just do fractals and depend on RNG for the golden (or ordinary) fractal weapon skin collections. The conversion are there (I speculate) to make it possible for people to buy the last few, for those too impatient to wait. I suspect it’s setup to be convoluted in part to make it less attractive for any other goal. (Although honestly, I dunno; I’d be happier with a simpler system, too.)

I’m not complaining about the ability to buy otherwise rng rewards. I’m complaining that we have to first convert two fractal currencies into a third fractal currency, and that third currency is only useful for buying one or two items.

It is relevant because we see this again in buying ascended items in fractals. Rather than a straightforward material cost locked behind a crafting requirement, we must first refine all these materials just to use them as a currency.

edit: I don’t think its fair to criticize without proposing an alternative solution. I have been in favor of an alternative solution for a long time. Just make it so you can buy things like crafting materials with fractal currencies, then craft the material yourself.

Ideally they would leave in the old way to obtain ascended gear from the fractal vendors (with the satbilizing matrices and research pages), while lowering the cost a bit so that it isn’t ~75% more expensive than crafting. A 33% markup would be pretty decent opportunity price to avoid crafting. That way players who want to pay extra can still avoid crafting.

• If all you cared about was the gold cost, the new system is at least cheaper.
• The new system, however, still doesn’t sink a lot of the Fractals currency.
• I wanted to buy ascended gear through Fractals specifically to avoid crafting, since I use those crafting materials for other things.

All in all, the net sum of their changes is that they spent a lot of effort and rebalanced those systems, and I’m still never going to buy a single piece of ascended gear that way. I think they missed the mark pretty heavily.

Rising Dusk.2408:

• If all you cared about was the gold cost, the new system is at least cheaper.
• The new system, however, still doesn’t sink a lot of the Fractals currency.
• I wanted to buy ascended gear through Fractals specifically to avoid crafting, since I use those crafting materials for other things.

All in all, the net sum of their changes is that they spent a lot of effort and rebalanced those systems, and I’m still never going to buy a single piece of ascended gear that way. I think they missed the mark pretty heavily.

One player doing or not doing that is not anything significant. What matters is the numbers across the playerbase — and that’s something ANet will know, but never tell us.

We can only infer from what they do in three to nine months. If this remains, they are happy with how it performs so far. If it changes, we can guess at what might have not worked to encourage it.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

One player doing or not doing that is not anything significant. What matters is the numbers across the playerbase — and that’s something ANet will know, but never tell us.

You’re not wrong, but the thread literally asks if we’re happy with the change, so I answered that question for the only person for whom I can speak: myself. As far as this change goes, I will go from never buying this ascended gear to still never buying this ascended gear. I would be very surprised if I were the only one.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

We can only infer from what they do in three to nine months. If this remains, they are happy with how it performs so far.

Possibly. On the other hand, they have been known to leave unchanged a lot of things noone was satisfied with, just because they didn’t want to admit to making a mistake

Rising Dusk.2408:

You’re not wrong, but the thread literally asks if we’re happy with the change, so I answered that question for the only person for whom I can speak: myself. As far as this change goes, I will go from never buying this ascended gear to still never buying this ascended gear. I would be very surprised if I were the only one.

You’re definitely not the only one. And i think it’s telling, because generally we represent a wildly different playing style, likes and dislikes.

Astralporing.1957:

Possibly. On the other hand, they have been known to leave unchanged a lot of things noone was satisfied with, just because they didn’t want to admit to making a mistake

Can you name one thing no one was happy with that they did not change?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Astralporing.1957:

Possibly. On the other hand, they have been known to leave unchanged a lot of things noone was satisfied with, just because they didn’t want to admit to making a mistake

Can you name one thing no one was happy with that they did not change?

While you are being overly pedantic in that with such a large playerbase, there will never be a change that everyone likes, nor one that no one likes.

That said there are a few things that have had an outpouring of negative feedback that haven’t been changed.

Rising Dusk.2408:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

One player doing or not doing that is not anything significant. What matters is the numbers across the playerbase — and that’s something ANet will know, but never tell us.

You’re not wrong, but the thread literally asks if we’re happy with the change, so I answered that question for the only person for whom I can speak: myself. As far as this change goes, I will go from never buying this ascended gear to still never buying this ascended gear. I would be very surprised if I were the only one.

Sorry, you are absolutely right. I should not have said that, because your response is to the topic of the thread.

OriOri.8724:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Astralporing.1957:

Possibly. On the other hand, they have been known to leave unchanged a lot of things noone was satisfied with, just because they didn’t want to admit to making a mistake

Can you name one thing no one was happy with that they did not change?

While you are being overly pedantic in that with such a large playerbase, there will never be a change that everyone likes, nor one that no one likes.

That said there are a few things that have had an outpouring of negative feedback that haven’t been changed.

I’d be happy to discuss one of those. The most negative feedback I can remember was about the introduction of Ascended way back when. Despite the large amounts of negative feedback, there was a lot of push-back from the many posters who claimed to like Ascended. I can remember a few things that drew out mostly negative feedback, but those were all changed in one fashion or another.

One was the gold for gems interface, which was adjusted to allow players to select a given amount of gems to buy rather than having to buy in increments similar to gems for real money. Another was the no-character-slot for vets with HoT basic purchase, which was also changed. I’m having a hard time remembering anything else that met with such near universal upset which was not changed.