Guild Wars 2

Personal experince has shown me it is the group your in… I wouldn’t nail right on the head of the dungeon just being to hard… The new dungeon demands team work so pug groups that silently run threw it will most likely fail. AC p2 ghost eater try doing that without talking.

The first time I ran AC after it was patched,my whole experience stopped while defending Hodgers from the Burrows and it was just 2 hours of frustration and I talked about it on this forum.The next day I realized that I/we should tackled this dungeon like a new one not the one we used to run and eureka.

Follow the advice that ‘SliceofHam’ said a few posts above and you will see that the dungeon is not that hard, may be (very) challenging for some but definitely achievable and once you know what to do it will become easier.With some Guildies we ran all 3 paths quicker that we’d have thought and suprisingly P3 boss fight didn’t bugged.

Re did this again with my guardian at lvl 50 and some other higher level chars and finished path 3.

Didnt change my mind on it that much. Spider queen is still does to much AoE damage with the poison rings, gravelings need to be toned down a bit on the stun attacks, and the path 3 boss fight is idiotic.

Relying on AI behaviour to beat another AI’s behaviour is one of the dumbest idea’s yet. Sorry, but its true. The idea behind the mechanic in itself isnt bad (create bubble>save party), however leaving it to an AI unit to chose when to activate is the moronic bit.

Simpler and much MUCH better way is to leave it to player control. Make the AI drop a device or create a device that the player activates to create a bubble. A simple spawn command for a toggle device and bobs you uncle. Ai can still run around like a lunatic and be a buggy mess but now its not at the players expense.

I am shocked actually that this was overlooked or ignored. I mean, how could you miss such an obvious flaw and such a simple fix?

WonderfulCT.6278:

NotOneToRidicule.2340:

My guild just took 4 lvl 80’s and a lvl 63 into AC explorer path 1 and could not get past the Champion Spider (mostly because of the little spiders)…after running this dungeon many, many times. Wait, before you say we’re built wrong…we’re all accomplished in PVE (with 100% world completion, daily farming in Orr, and able to hold our own in WvW).

IMO, it has become way too hard since the latest patch on February 26th. I feel that this game is becoming too frustrating. Since there are other options in the MMO world, I’m thinking of branching out and trying others because of this. Is anyone else feeling as frustrated as I am?

I don’t understand why everyone has sooooooo much trouble with the spider/spiders. I can usually take them all out by myself dying only 0-2 times.

I have a video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmkhyONc7m8
First of all this was done in one take so there are some fails/destroying of burrow that I decided not to omit. Also go to 5 minutes in for spider solo.

Wethospu (hope I got his name right) has posted a much better melee solo of the spiders which you can also check it as its a much better example but I don’t have the link.

Edit: Here is a link to a thread where some help with the spider was posted incase anyone is interested.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Any-advice-for-AC-spider-boss/first#post1563929

http://youtu.be/Cxq7Rle_HsA

Any class can do this run, you just need the right tactics. You need to observe your surroundings before you engage in any boss, and even while engaged you need to observe where things happen.
Apart from that you should also observe the programming of bosses/npcs and how they can benefit your party.
Any dungeon can be done, some dungeons might require some briefing/observation time.
Now AC sometimes requires observation/coordination, especially on the ghostbusters path, and path 3.
If people are having difficulty on path 3 due to Warmaster Grast getting killed, send me a PM and ill tell you the tactics
You absolutely DO NOT NEED warmaster grast in p3.

I think Anet is doing the right thing in making dungeons harder BUT in the wrong direction. They should have started on the higher level dungeons and work their way down. Punishing new players can alienate them from doing any dungeon again from their first experiences at a level 30/35 starter.

Darksanity.1690:

If people are having difficulty on path 3 due to Warmaster Grast getting killed, send me a PM and ill tell you the tactics
You absolutely DO NOT NEED warmaster grast in p3.

If you have anything to share, why not share it here?

Himei.5379:

I think Anet is doing the right thing in making dungeons harder BUT in the wrong direction. They should have started on the higher level dungeons and work their way down. Punishing new players can alienate them from doing any dungeon again from their first experiences at a level 30/35 starter.

Highest lvl dungeons are great as they are (CoE/Arah). I agree that they should have started with the broken ones (CoF P1, HotW). AC was great before, not so great now.

Geoffroy.3685:

Darksanity.1690:

A
If people are having difficulty on path 3 due to Warmaster Grast getting killed, send me a PM and ill tell you the tactics
You absolutely DO NOT NEED warmaster grast in p3.

If you have anything to share, why not share it here?

You’re right to be honest, I may start a new thread with AC (NEW) tactics. Give me some time to compile it properly so that groups of any class can do it( Will also need to include some screenshots ).

Simple as that, this is another proof to the very sick attitude to the consumer in general, making a dungeon that CAN be done, impossible instead, just to prevent farming for the better of the whole – this is some very typical bullshiiiiiit of the socialistic thinking, of course nobody identifies it in himself, definitely not the developers. Never.

If the dungeon was doable and first of all could be enjoyable, THUS it was done by many players, why, oh explain me why would anyone kill it and make it almost impossible unless you’re a very extremely godlike veteran in very godlike gear? Any logic behind it? Thought so.

And by the way, just to ask that seemingly obvious question: HOW are new players like myself supposed learn the dungeon if the only way to get into a squad that maybe may have a small chance of completing it, is to be an above mentioned elite veteran with astonishing experience??? Oh well… Too bad I wasn’t born a god. I’ll just fvck this game and go sit outside on the grass, I’m so tired of the idiots behind the worst decisions repeating time after time after time, destroying any good standards and possibilities of having simple fun in mmos… Too much of this shiiiiiit, I quit.

Adamantel.6427:

Simple as that, this is another proof to the very sick attitude to the consumer in general, making a dungeon that CAN be done, impossible instead, just to prevent farming for the better of the whole – this is some very typical bullshiiiiiit of the socialistic thinking, of course nobody identifies it in himself, definitely not the developers. Never.

A lot of the consumers wanted dungeons where you don’t just faceroll through everything. The spider offered zero challenge before the revamp. You could stand in her poison circles and take minimal damage. With regen you could almost negate this.

Learn the mechanics of the dungeon and how to use your characters. Did you know that you could dodge to evade attacks? Did you know that condition removals can remove conditions? Do you know the role of defiant, what causes the stacks to increase, and how to decrease them? Did you know that stability blocks certain condition effects such as knockdown? Did you know that very basic coordination can go a long ways?

Adamantel.6427:

Simple as that, this is another proof to the very sick attitude to the consumer in general, making a dungeon that CAN be done, impossible instead, just to prevent farming for the better of the whole – this is some very typical bullshiiiiiit of the socialistic thinking, of course nobody identifies it in himself, definitely not the developers. Never.

If the dungeon was doable and first of all could be enjoyable, THUS it was done by many players, why, oh explain me why would anyone kill it and make it almost impossible unless you’re a very extremely godlike veteran in very godlike gear? Any logic behind it? Thought so.

And by the way, just to ask that seemingly obvious question: HOW are new players like myself supposed learn the dungeon if the only way to get into a squad that maybe may have a small chance of completing it, is to be an above mentioned elite veteran with astonishing experience??? Oh well… Too bad I wasn’t born a god. I’ll just fvck this game and go sit outside on the grass, I’m so tired of the idiots behind the worst decisions repeating time after time after time, destroying any good standards and possibilities of having simple fun in mmos… Too much of this shiiiiiit, I quit.

You act like this design is permanent when the design teams can make changes eventually based on reasonable feedback. It may take them a while, but they’re always reading the stuff you post.

It’s true that the transition for newer dungeon runners is rough, so explain what the experience is like through constructive criticism — you know, calm relevant critical discussion without vulgar language (seems to be the only vocabulary many people know how to use these days). Rants like this don’t solve anything, so good riddance. You’re such an expert at what happens behind the scenes, so your rants must be fact.

For the record, most of us weren’t “dungeon gods” when we first started out. We did the trial and error to learn how to do better next time, going through repair bills and dying to unnecessary obstacles. People had to explore dungeons to figure out the tactics. With the dungeons’ current state, if you want smooth perfect runs, then find a guild or group of friends that are willing to go through it with you. If they are experienced, ask them to teach you. If they are new as well, do your best to learn the dungeon. If you’re going to PuG, the experience varies because you can only influence population behavior to an extent.

NotOneToRidicule.2340:

My guild just took 4 lvl 80’s and a lvl 63 into AC explorer path 1 and could not get past the Champion Spider (mostly because of the little spiders)…after running this dungeon many, many times. Wait, before you say we’re built wrong…we’re all accomplished in PVE (with 100% world completion, daily farming in Orr, and able to hold our own in WvW).

IMO, it has become way too hard since the latest patch on February 26th. I feel that this game is becoming too frustrating. Since there are other options in the MMO world, I’m thinking of branching out and trying others because of this. Is anyone else feeling as frustrated as I am?

there are many post about this already, and it’s always the same debate, the PvE prima donnas telling everyone else learn to play, and the rest arguing with them about the new AC is too hard. Personally I side with the people that think the change made were not needed and in a way that’s not suitable for a beginner dungeon aimed for level 35 as the starting level.

I solo’ed that spider with my ranger. You can pull the little spiders up the stairs carefully. If you pull the champ, run and let it reset. Eventually I got to a point where there was just a few left but the champ would aggro with them no matter what. Two or three suicide runs finished them off.

After that, it was a matter of getting just the right engagement with my pet. I didn’t even use my own weapon as I was up on the stairs and they were across the room and behind the statue. My trait line is x/x/20/20/30. I just used Healing Spring every time it was off CD and my pet couldn’t die. The champ eventually did.

Adamantel.6427:

Simple as that, this is another proof to the very sick attitude to the consumer in general, making a dungeon that CAN be done, impossible instead, just to prevent farming for the better of the whole – this is some very typical bullshiiiiiit of the socialistic thinking, of course nobody identifies it in himself, definitely not the developers. Never.

If the dungeon was doable and first of all could be enjoyable, THUS it was done by many players, why, oh explain me why would anyone kill it and make it almost impossible unless you’re a very extremely godlike veteran in very godlike gear? Any logic behind it? Thought so.

And by the way, just to ask that seemingly obvious question: HOW are new players like myself supposed learn the dungeon if the only way to get into a squad that maybe may have a small chance of completing it, is to be an above mentioned elite veteran with astonishing experience??? Oh well… Too bad I wasn’t born a god. I’ll just fvck this game and go sit outside on the grass, I’m so tired of the idiots behind the worst decisions repeating time after time after time, destroying any good standards and possibilities of having simple fun in mmos… Too much of this shiiiiiit, I quit.

It’s obvious that they did it so that players like you could complain on the forums and provide entertainment for players with the very basic skills required to complete the simplest of dungeons.

I don’t think it is hard. It is just hard “to farm with pug”.

If they just include “unique” rewards for every dungeon I’m sure people will do every dungeon. Now people just farm the easiest thing.

And AC is always the “farm level dungeon” for low level. The revamp really hurt people’s ability to do that.

Ayrilana.1396:

Adamantel.6427:

Simple as that, this is another proof to the very sick attitude to the consumer in general, making a dungeon that CAN be done, impossible instead, just to prevent farming for the better of the whole – this is some very typical bullshiiiiiit of the socialistic thinking, of course nobody identifies it in himself, definitely not the developers. Never.

Learn the mechanics of the dungeon and how to use your characters. Did you know that you could dodge to evade attacks? Did you know that condition removals can remove conditions? Do you know the role of defiant, what causes the stacks to increase, and how to decrease them? Did you know that stability blocks certain condition effects such as knockdown? Did you know that very basic coordination can go a long ways?

While the poster you quoted did not do his “side” of the discussion any good, your assumptions about the cause of the problem might also be unfounded. I’ve seen good groups and bad groups in dungeons. The bad groups mostly do use the tools the game provides, they just waste the resource by using it at the wrong time. This is usually caused by not knowing the fight, not knowing the tell, and reacting rather than being prepared to act at the right time because you know the kitten fight.

1. It’s ridiculous to say that people just need to learn to play. This is the first dungeon that players encounter. It should be teaching how 5 man dungeons work, provide a challenge but nothing impossible.
2. The spider queen and her baby pets are spitting poison at an insane rate, faster than any cool-downs characters might have to try and counter it or dodge. You eventually succumb as you use up your skills and dodges.

You know how people play this one? They stack in the corner by the stairs, train the mobs and aoe the crap out of everything. I don’t know if that’s how the designers intended the fight to go (because that’s very boring) but it works — and it’s what everyone does to get past it.

The thing is broken, pure and simple.

Someone please link a YouTube video where lvl 35-40s go in with lvl 35-40 gear and accomplish it.

This thread’s like a bad boomerang.

They just need to Test the Burrows every patch… b/c sometimes they manage to break on a regular basis to where even Barrage & Hammer symbol auto ain’t hittin ’em

…The hatchlings… unfortunately, you really should have a Reflect for. I honestly don’t see a lot of other options there. Guards and Mesmers aren’t the only ones either. Rangers can reflect those too. I do it every run. Yeah that’s not really fair to the rest of the classes and still means stacking up, but once they’re dead you don’t have to stay stacked to kill Queen. She’s easy enough with a Balanced Team (crazy…I know… but they exist)

Faenglir.1502:

1. It’s ridiculous to say that people just need to learn to play. This is the first dungeon that players encounter. It should be teaching how 5 man dungeons work, provide a challenge but nothing impossible.
2. The spider queen and her baby pets are spitting poison at an insane rate, faster than any cool-downs characters might have to try and counter it or dodge. You eventually succumb as you use up your skills and dodges.

You know how people play this one? They stack in the corner by the stairs, train the mobs and aoe the crap out of everything. I don’t know if that’s how the designers intended the fight to go (because that’s very boring) but it works — and it’s what everyone does to get past it.

The thing is broken, pure and simple.

Someone please link a YouTube video where lvl 35-40s go in with lvl 35-40 gear and accomplish it.

There are several videos. Do a search for them.

The dungeon is fine. Level progression of the dungeons does not mean that the lower ones must be easy and gradually get more difficult. This is just a false concept that several people thought up.

Even with full 80s I still sometimes wipe. I think ac should be much easier so newer players don’t get frustrated when they get totally destroyed every fight in their first dungeon.

I thought the first dungeon people encountered was the story mode version >_>

Ticee.2451:

I’m just wondering why they would choose the first dungeon of all to make ultra hard.. rather than keep that fairly easy and then crank up the difficulty for the last high level dungeons instead? :o

They haven’t worked on the other dungeons yet. Rumor has is that Dungeons phase 2 are being worked on this year again.

… need more LoS…
…

Even though I dont agree with the way anet does dungeons, it’s pretty much: know the dungeon or die.

The spider champ isnt that bad, but unless you know ahead of time to take con removal, projectile reflection, and a ranged options to handle aoe, its going to be very difficult. It’s frustrating that you need to know everything about the dungeon before speccing for it.

Btw, wait for the graveling room in p3. If you dont know where the nests spawn from the get go, ill bet you’ll be stuck on it for quite awhile.

Just LoS the spiderlings around the corner and stack. It’s not an exploit and it’s the easiest way to kill queen. Helps if you have a water field up too.

Oh gee… did someone else just mention another thing Ranger does pretty well?

No wonder everyone hates this dungeon now

My god, please don’t start Pugging until you’re better.
Dungeons are meant to be the difficult content, it’s meant to be hard, even then it’s all faceroll easy once you learn the encounters.
The Spider Queen’s AoEs hurt? Don’t stand in them!? Is that really so hard to figure out?
The spider spawns sit at range, spread far apart making it too hard to kill them? Bottleneck them, hide around a corner, make them come to you. Learning how to use Line of Sight will make all of your dungeon encounters easier.
Using Line of Sight is a method where your team stacks in one place, one person goes and pulls the mobs before rejoining the stack (usually around a corner.) And voila the mobs will come to you, they will be grouped up and in melee range, ready to eat as many AoE’s and cleave attacks as you can throw at them. Bear in mind, some mobs have cleave damage themselves.

Some people on these forums think LoS’ing is an exploit, go figure

“One does not simply make a level 35 dungeon, for level 35 players” Is the first thought that comes up in my mind. I havent seen many low leveled players play through it without dying numerous times. Imo it could be made less difficult for the lower leveled and maybe even make a “level 80 path” which is the real challenge, and you can make that as hard as you want Anet!

All three paths are pretty doable btw. Assuming most party members know what they are doing

AC is the biggest dungeon troll by ANet. I stay away from it….

A month ago I got my full medium AC armor. I didn’t had much trouble getting it. Only the final boss in path 2 can be a pain with a kittenty unorganised party.

Robert Hrouda: “My parting gift before I abandon dungeons. Enjoy!”—-not. It’s not hard but they just made it more annoying to complete (aka not worth it)

The Ancient One.1895:

I dont want to hear that people need to change players or that your just not good enough to run the AC. That is hog wash. I have run that place over a hundred times and it was hard enough before with all level 80’s in exotic gear. It upsets me when I hear people say you need to be better. IT IS NOT for level 80’s in exotic gear, it is for level 35s in 35 gear. So when I go in after the last patch with my level 80 buddies and we can not finish it or we glitch out after battling for hours you have to realize that there patch was terrible. I know for one I do not wish to waste my time in there until they fix it. A game is supose to be challenging yet fun and enjoyable, it is not supposed to make you angry and depressed. When you get past the spider [if you do] you might as well forget Kohler just run past because you cant fight him anymore. So after trying six times you may decide to run past but then the hatchlings have been increased 100% and they have 4 times the health and half the time they are invulerable. After 2 hours you give up and say you will never come back cause really……what is the point. If arenanet wants you not to play there game they are sure doing a good job of driving us away.

Hi All!

as Noob in GW2, but old WoW player, I have to agree completely with The Ancient One!

Yesterday evening, some friends of mine have carried me in AC explorable mod, just for a quick first run and obviously doing stacking strategy…well is terrible! really! On the other side I have (and I want to!) to become skilled and familiar with mechanics, my character and bosses but,

ArenaNet PLEASE! don’t force us to find those poor espedients to reach results

That was a year ago, and stacking is one result of a convergence of multiple tactics employed in search of the most efficient and optimal approach to dungeon running after 1.5 years.

So um, yeah. Did I mention there are some dungeons scenarios where stacking will guarantee a quick and easy wipe for your party?

Stacking on spider queen is more reliable and consistent that hoping players are capable if staying out of red circles. Since 95% of the player base had issues with that, this is why stacking in the corner became more prevalent.

Players stack for the last boss on path 3 because of the constant knock back attacks and the NPC’s shield if very unreliable. It’s annoying to have a party wipe due to RNG as to whether the NPC casts the shield in time.

I don’t think NPC shield is that RNG anymore. At least when I soloed it, I had zero issues with the shield.

There are actually some pretty good points in OP’s post though.

It’s really easy to get 100% map completion, hang around in Orr, etc etc etc and still be crap at dungeons.

Open world GW2 can be facetanked with very few exceptions. Gear up PVT, take every hit, heal out of it. Hell, I made it to 80 on a thief that used his dodges offensively and never, ever dodged defensively or used blinds/interrupts/blocks, etc. Try playing like that in a dungeon…it’s gonna be a bad time for everyone. The learning curve in jumping from PvE to dungeons is quite extreme.

@dilo: Yeah, stacking sucks. It is the most efficient, safest way to get through that boss (especially if there’s a dungeon newbie in the party), but it is a terrible, boring, uninteresting snoozefest. They should make her still do her AoEs when everyone is stacked to make people actually do something in that fight, but they won’t.

Keep at it, and join a dungeon guild if you are serious about learning (or stick with these friends if they know what they’re doing). Transitioning from the nerfed open world PvE to becoming a dungeon runner is not easy alone.

(note: not saying that stacking is bad/exploitative/etc/etc/etc, just that it’s really kittening boring.)

Shield was fixed months ago I believe.

The problem with AC is that while not a very difficult dungeon, it has some mechanics to it that are just very badly designed, and are very unforgiving to new players. These mechanics such the fun right out of the dungeon to anyone who ventures in there for the first time.

Most of the trash mobs are not so bad, and even the Spider Queen should be doable with half a decent team. But the burrows are still a DPS check. They are ridiculously easy if you spam icebows, and ridiculously hard without them. There’s no point where any npc informs you just what kind of DPS is required, nor are players provided with environmental weapons to take out the burrows. So in the end you have an encounter that is extremely unbalanced, and favors particular classes immensely. It can be like a walk in the park, if your party packs lots of icebows and Fiery Greatswords, and an armor grind without. It’s just not very well designed, and not any fun.

Kholer is a terrible boss. He’s mostly terrible because he’s in the wrong place in the dungeon. His difficulty is disproportionate to every other boss in AC, and he’s a stumbling block to many new players who assume he’s a mini boss. This leads to a high armor repair bill, and that just aint any fun.

The Patriarch on the other hand is a boss who scales really well. He obviously requires a bit of coordination, and a fair amount of DPS is still required (which I despise), but his mechanics are pretty solid.

Colossus Rumblus. I don’t like this boss. Too much knockdown spam and overpowered trash spawning. I hate being stuck in a CC-chain that instantly downs my character without any chance of escaping.

The howling king is alright as a boss.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

But the burrows are still a DPS check. They are ridiculously easy if you spam icebows, and ridiculously hard without them.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The Patriarch snipsnipsnip and a fair amount of DPS is still required

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Kholer is a terrible boss. His difficulty is disproportionate to every other boss in AC.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Colossus Rumblus. I don’t like this boss. Too much knockdown spam and overpowered trash spawning

Whatisthisidonteven

RemiRome.8495:

What is this I don’t even.

I’m quite serious. I’ve wandered into AC with plenty of random groups, and even with guildies, and struggled immensely with those darn burrows. Even with one elementalist with icebow and fiery greatsword, we could sometimes not do enough damage to clear them in time, or the mobs that spawned simply overwhelmed some of the less experienced players.

The mere fact that I was usually the only one left standing, proves that the burrows are in fact pretty hard for new players. I pack a ton of toughness, and have a survival build, so my survival isn’t surprising. But those burrows have wiped a lot of players, and not just because they are bad. There’s something clearly wrong with the difficulty scaling, and the DPS required to pass this obstacle.

Perhaps worse, is that they aren’t any fun. High difficulty can be forgiven (if it’s a fair challenge), but lack of fun I find much harder to let slide.

You
can’t
even
crit
them

It’s literally impossible to not have “enough dps”

I have to admit I understand where Mad Queen is coming from………

If I pug AC no one knows a kitty thing. They don’t know what to do. They run around, they kill themselves, they kill Hodgins, they get poisoned to death, etc. these things just happen in pugs in AC. For those of us who don’t gear check.

About the dps thing I’m not sure if it’s a dps check or a do you have a brain check. :/ sadly not all do.

RemiRome.8495:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

But the burrows are still a DPS check. They are ridiculously easy if you spam icebows, and ridiculously hard without them.

What is this I don’t even.

It is really tough if you’re in a low DPS group with no ele to FGS/IB or guard to kite gravelings away from Hodgins. I’ve seen this room break pugs so hard xD.

Sometimes the best option in that case (for hodgin’s path, anyway) is to just clear the gravelings >.< takes forever but most groups can handle it if they can at least manage to kite. I usually just switch to my ele after the first wipe, though xD

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

RemiRome.8495:

What is this I don’t even.

snip

Hes referring to the fact that colossus rumblus doesnt spawn trash mobs. Thats the howling king. And the howling king doesnt spam knockdowns. So you’ve essentually combined howling king and rumblus together.

RemiRome.8495:

You
can’t
even
crit
them

It’s literally impossible to not have “enough dps”

You have had fantastic luck with your PUGs then, lmao

spoj.9672:

Hes referring to the fact that colossus rumblus doesnt spawn trash mobs. Thats the howling king. And the howling king doesnt spam knockdowns. So you’ve essentually combined howling king and rumblus together.

Sorry, I must have confused the two. It’s an easy mistake.

spoj.9672:

RemiRome.8495:

Whatisthisidonteven

Hes referring to the fact that colossus rumblus doesnt spawn trash mobs. Thats the howling king. And the howling king doesnt spam knockdowns. So you’ve essentually combined howling king and rumblus together.

Dat Howling Rumblus doe.

Also, Kholer is the best boss in AC. You actually have to pay attention, which is why most pugs skip it. >.>

“Get rid of Kholer”
“Troll is OP, nerf pls”

I love when people complain about optional bosses xD

The problem with Kholer is that he’s an optional boss in the middle of the AC dungeon, who causes more wipes than ANY of the other bosses in AC. So yes, his difficulty is disproportionate to the location he’s in. Unless you cheese his encounter by stacking behind a pillar, he’ll tear through most pugs with ease. And it would not surprise me if most beginners quit trying AC entirely after running into Kholer, and having their armor severely trashed.

dlonie.6547:

It is really tough if you’re in a low DPS group with no ele to FGS/IB or guard to kite gravelings away from Hodgins. I’ve seen this room break pugs so hard xD.

Sometimes the best option in that case (for hodgin’s path, anyway) is to just clear the gravelings >.< takes forever but most groups can handle it if they can at least manage to kite. I usually just switch to my ele after the first wipe, though xD

Kiting the gravelings is a pain. Mostly this is due to the aggro mechanics of the game being rather dodgy and unclear. It really feels like all graveling burrows sections were designed with specific classes or builds in mind. And that’s what gets inexperienced players. They head into the dungeon pretty confident, and for the most part they can easily clear most mobs. But then they run into these gimmicky encounters, and the experience turns sour and unpleasant.