Guild Wars 2

Spoj The Second.7680:

But it does sound condescending if you say it to someone you arent friends with.

Watch out Spoj, you’re threatening his freedom of speech! God forbid someone ask you, very kindly and without judgement, to be polite. That’s not how we do things on the internet.

Thank you peeps, I was already thinking I don’t understand English…

Wait, there are people who think AC is hard?

Also, it must’ve taken a really powerful necromancer to bring this thread back from the Mists.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Any time anyone calls me darling or dear or sweet heart it makes me murderous. If it’s another female doing it, it’s even worse. I feel condescended to. Especially in the middle of an argument.

I get where Kirin is coming from.

Chill out.

Well. There goes any constructive conversation I would have had with you.

Good day.

Good luck kirin!

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Good luck kirin!

I need no luck. One doesn’t have conversation with walls.

I wonder why you waste your time like this, guys… arguing against brick walls. I love you, but sometimes I think you really need an injection of “can’t-do-much-about-it-let-go” or “this guy again I better ignore him”.
By the way, why is there still someone complaining about Kholer but not a meow on the matter of the TROLL?!?! That guy is freaking RIDICULOUS, come on. It wipes the floor with my face everytime I forget how terrible it is and I try to fight it. Not fair for a newbie like mahself.

deSade.9437:

I wonder why you waste your time like this, guys… arguing against brick walls. I love you, but sometimes I think you really need an injection of “can’t-do-much-about-it-let-go” or “this guy again I better ignore him”.
By the way, why is there still someone complaining about Kholer but not a meow on the matter of the TROLL?!?! That guy is freaking RIDICULOUS, come on. It wipes the floor with my face everytime I forget how terrible it is and I try to fight it. Not fair for a newbie like mahself.

But everyone knows feeding the troll is unwise, much less offering yourself up to him… :3

For a lvl35 new player AC is absolutely insane but, once you learn a bit about it, it’s not really a hard dungeon.

Before the LFG tool I used to see a lot of groups looking for eles but, if I have to be honest, I don’t recall many failures not having one, not at least for path 3.
Maybe a couple of times I’ve seen the path 3 burrow event fail, and it has been mainly about some players being completely lost and spending ages reacting to burrow spawns and reaching them.

Path 1 is something completely different.
Whenever I PUG that path, I always ask “3-2 all kill or 1 defend – 4 kill?” upon reaching the graveling point.
If it’s an “all kill”, there’s usually no problem, but most times I don’t even get an answer, so I usually swap weapons and proceed to defend, telling the group to go all together while I take care of Hodgins.
The event usually fails because of people dying and/or not following a common strategy. Even after having told people to go together some players do whatever they want and start destroying both burrows at the same time, forcing me to play 3-2 with the wrong weapon combination. Then some players die, leading to Hodgins being attacked from both sides, way harder to defend.
There’s usually no problem once I explain how the burrows work and/or we agree on a common strategy but, seriously, too many players have no idea, don’t ask, don’t listen and just smash things.

Kholer is not a hard boss at all; It has always been a really nice boss and an awesome training ground.
What annoys me is having to swap to soldier armor and/or hammer (even if not traited for that) when the PUG decides to stack.
With the usual PUG damage output, having the spin attack tell completely obscured is really painful.
If I have to be honest, I find the path 1 final boss actually harder for damage lacking groups. It might be the same with the path 3 one, but I still haven’t found a single group that doesn’t use the corner tactic.
In any case, if you want a completely ridiculous boss in AC, my bets are on that freaking unblockable daze spammer troll.

I’d say that AC isn’t really that hard a dungeon if you take your time and learn the encounters one by one.

Try to go for a 100% PUG experience run where you won’t stack but will still melee so as to check the tells for the attacks and learn to dodge them

In the end, it’s doable for a lvl 35 stuffed with greens and without trinkets. I sold legit runs on a lvl 34 mesmer (helped by 2 lvl 35 warriors : one in blues and one in TV gear :’( )

hmmmm….

RISE

Saint.5647:

hmmmm….

RISE

You.. I… fine. But you’d better share the popcorn.

Sins.4782:

Saint.5647:

hmmmm….

RISE

You.. I… fine. But you’d better share the popcorn.

But I just got us tickets though.

:)

we also have 8 profession that will do the same things. DPS
i’d like to see more diversity, more strategy we r running in a room to found a corner and stack up, then we will skip a corridor to found another room and stack again…. i wanna see more mechanism, i wanna se heavy tanking/dps in a part of room, a thief cloaked trick some machine then a mesmer make a portal then blink upstairs and carry all the team, i wanna se a hill with a turret with a ranged classes do some job and other classe do other stuff… more complexity, less oneshotting from both parts…. like other games…

I would sell AC p3 1 copper less than Sam in EU. +4 slots, 50% off in NA, because it’s my old turf and less leechers than in EU…

Just to say how hard AC is these days.

/swag popcorn.

Saint.5647:

hmmmm….

RISE

Is that you? You turn me on.

Well, it’s a pretty old photo and the lighting was bad.

i thought for sure i would have posted in something like this but guess not….pro necromancer yes…

get rid of the second wave of spiderlings that spawn when the spider queen drops down and its all fixed….this first boss encounter is too mean on new players unless anets intention was to teach the stack strat right away in the very first encounter of the first dungeon…. if so then mission accomplished… the encounter was fine before the anet revamp

Perhaps I am ignorant in this questoin, but I think this went off topic on page 1. The point(as I see it) is that changes made by the updates causes this dungeon to become HARDER, and thusly that edit is too hard. And yes malfade, kholer coming out of nowhere with no early warning to you MUST dodge is a problem, though it’s solution is not so simple.

I could argue that spider queens minions are a bit much(I’ve heard varying arguments to the queen, and now having played her on a more intelligent note of understanding, dodging, and blocking her attacks, I think I speak a little more wiesely to say she and the boss after are way too hard for a lvl 30 dungeon. Though for more difficult dungeons that is up for debate.

Still, back to the topic, what changed in the updates to cause this? is there something that changed so noticeably it changed how the game could be played? If so we need to focus on that change(or tell me the page it is on) and debate the effect it had, no debate the dungeon as a whole which….is ok for expert players, if not too difficult to a beginning dungeon.

edit: oh and, shout out to shade for exactly what I was thinking. The boss spawning isnt the issue, but that hoard is hard enough without an alreayd veyr difficult boss to do it. The only -real- way I can see to win is to run back into that corner or similar corridor and pick them off that way, I.E, stack(which is very hard given the fire on the stairwell.) It does seem like a poor design on the games fault.

VideoGamermike.5813:

Lots of uninteresting ranting

Made an ele, never played it until level 80. Solo’d AC on first or maybe second try just by playing as one would EXPECT.

In an action game you need to be ACTIVE. Whatever a tank you may want to be, a one-shot mechanic is what it is : it ONE-SHOTS.

So yes you need to dodge. And if in open PvE/WvW you payed attention to tells (mobs’ and even players’) you would see and dodge.

Kholer is nothing but a ranger with a thief’s utilities :/

I actually do want to take a seperate post to defend something Malafide said. Being a GM to multiple pen and paper games now(only recently very seriously), one issue thats hard to work with and a real struggle, is creating challenges that can be overcome without forcing deep insight from the players. Player should be able to guess reasonable what to do without.
Take my example, the next session i play to work with this by altering the battle system to less about striaght combat, and be more about problem solving., There is a terrain, idea, or mechanic(say, lava waves or cliffside fractle) and giving advantages when it’s used, while reeming the players if they don’t use it. If I did this out of nowhere and changed the mechanic every time, my players woul be angry that I’m constantly throwing them into a fire and praying they find some ridiculous option out.

But perhaps a better example is a similar argument I had in Baulders Gate 2. I love that games story, but it’s GM work is shotty, no more famous an example comes from the shrine in the palidin quests, which you enter into an old temple to fight enemies. One area has you go itno a T-intersection, one direction forward, the other into zombies/vampires/mummies. The enemies are close enough its almost impossible to avoid as well.(and there have been nothing but goblins and beasts up to this point, and afterwards, as well.)
Now, vampires have what is called, level drain, a debuff that drops your HP, to hit, and more, every single attack, while mummies can cause paralysis on damage(which makes eveyr subsequent attack never miss.) Now, some argue its not even bad, just have a few negative plane protections or protections from energy and you’re golden…which doesnt work. There is no reason or evidence to guess those vampires are there, the area has no indication there will be level drain, so unless you knew it was coming in advance and exploited OOC knowledge, you can’t combat that threat, as there are too many to work with on casual protection alone. This makes the battle completely unfair for players who don’t want to depend on out of game knowledge.

Begin to see the point? It’s not the players job to know things in advance, nor should the players be expected to fail before they know what to do, there should always be some reason to suspect what is going to happen. These are games, not real life, if you end up going “what the-?!” and even with slow examination of everything seen have no indication of what happened until you fail, something is wrong.

VideoGamermike.5813:

Begin to see the point? It’s not the players job to know things in advance, nor should the players be expected to fail before they know what to do, there should always be some reason to suspect what is going to happen. These are games, not real life, if you end up going “what the-?!” and even with slow examination of everything seen have no indication of what happened until you fail, something is wrong.

My name is AC spider queen. I shine and start moving back before 2/3 of my attacks.

My name is Kholer : I shine like a lighthouse before unleashing my super spinning move.

I am asking you to look at things, not to say you don’t want to. If you don’t want to look at things, switch off the lights and go sleep. It may even cure your attitude :/

I’m waiting for the day you’ll fight Alphard

What does Alphard have that can’t be Akitten through with a mesmer or guardian?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

What does Alphard not have that can’t be Akitten through by VideogamerMike?

-FTFY-

Answer: a long wind-up animation like the already OP Kholer.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

What does Alphard have that can’t be Akitten through with a mesmer or guardian?

Shh, let him discover it by himself !

and if you don’t corrilate that shine with an instant-kill attack? what if you think it’s a buff? what if you think its some kind of bonus? There no indicaiton to what that light is other than a light. to top if off, even if you guess it’s an attack, how do you know how long until it charges? how do you know how to time you dodge, how do you know what KIND of ability it is and what to use to resist it? Again, the only way to find out is to have him use it on you first. You should not have to lose to figure out whats going on. this isn’t I wanna Be The guy, I shouldnt be paranoid about every little thing and have to play with absolute perfection or lose.

edit: unless you have a correlation between something and a result, you can only guess. I -could- guess an attack, but my guess will never be accurate enough to dodge until AFTER he beats me. Again, my BG2 example, I shouldn’t have to lose before I know what to do.

VideoGamermike.5813:

and if you don’t corrilate that shine with an instant-kill attack? what if you think it’s a buff? what if you think its some kind of bonus? There no indicaiton to what that light is other than a light. to top if off, even if you guess it’s an attack, how do you know how long until it charges? how do you know how to time you dodge, how do you know what KIND of ability it is and what to use to resist it? Again, the only way to find out is to have him use it on you first. You should not have to lose to figure out whats going on. this isn’t I wanna Be The guy, I shouldnt be paranoid about every little thing and have to play with absolute perfection or lose.

This, and other action oriented games, are probably not the right genre for you in that case. Using OOC information, as you put it, is pretty much required all the time in these games.

VideoGamermike.5813:

and if you don’t corrilate that shine with an instant-kill attack? what if you think it’s a buff? what if you think its some kind of bonus? There no indicaiton to what that light is other than a light. to top if off, even if you guess it’s an attack, how do you know how long until it charges? how do you know how to time you dodge, how do you know what KIND of ability it is and what to use to resist it? Again, the only way to find out is to have him use it on you first. You should not have to lose to figure out whats going on. this isn’t I wanna Be The guy, I shouldnt be paranoid about every little thing and have to play with absolute perfection or lose.

Meh armor repair is free now :/ And you obvisously didn’t read what I wrote about paying attention. Play as ranger/thief for a day and you’ll be Kholer

And since you seem to like buffs, have you noticed the icon on Kholer’s bar before he spins ? I guess not :/

I’m off to bed, we’ll resume that in 4 hours, after the morning coffee.

Maximion, your comment is not an answer tot he problem. That kind of mentality is a BAD thing, no one wants to go into a game with the ideology they will lose by default(ok, some do but that shouldnt be the default). Sure, losing everyone once in a while is natural, but it shouldnt be a requirement, I shouldnt need to get killed before I know what the attack does. and Kohler is an example of needing to die multiple times on end. if you didn’t see it(focusing on his goons) or didn’t pick the timing instantly, or even saw the attack too late, you have to die AGAIN to get the thing down, and thats not considering the practice for its timing. Dying should be a result, not a requirement.

edit: Can someone please explain what ‘changed’? We are still ignoring the point of this topic I think.

Actually, that’s a good answer, since action games do force you to learn their mechanics. The problem here is that the players have a disconnect between what to expect in dungeons and in open world, given that they don’t encounter mobs that have the same difficulty in the dungeons, OR have scaling difficulty towards the dungeons. Not to mention that the idea of karma training makes it difficult for players to know what to do.

Personally? I wish they released skill data and started on making official starter guide accessible in-game. The barrier of entry to most new players with not much prior MMO, and action MMO at that, makes this ‘toxicity’ you see even worse.

I see games like Dark Souls doing the same thing (teaching you how to play by killing you) all the time. It’s not necessarily nice, but it’s one way to teach the mechanics. I certainly think it could be taught more effectively and that the learning curve is super steep, but once you do your first few dungeons, you learn to recognize boss tells just from the standard glowing/charging up animations which are very similar. It’s just a matter of l2p.

maxinion.8396:

I see games like Dark Souls doing the same thing (teaching you how to play by killing you) all the time. It’s not necessarily nice, but it’s one way to teach the mechanics. I certainly think it could be taught more effectively and that the learning curve is super steep, but once you do your first few dungeons, you learn to recognize boss tells just from the standard glowing/charging up animations which are very similar. It’s just a matter of l2p.

Speaking of L2P

D(emon)ark souls is the most misunderstood game since a decade, and shares everything in common with GW2.

When some Young players tried it, they tried to rush it in Devil may cry style and they got owned.
So they thougt it was hard.

It wasn’t.

DS is a reboot of a game of 15 years before called king’s field.
Shares the same mechanic and lore, just adapted to the next, next, next gen.

All the chalenge is Learning how a BAD and OUTDATED AI works, at that point everything in the game is easy.

Doesn t it remember anything to you?

P.S.: DS still had a great lore, expecialy being a low budget project, but the fact that its ’80 gameplay is considered innovative makes me cry every time….That sort of gameplay would be destroyed on any high budget game.

Its like saying Goat Simulator has a complex physic.

Soloing the spider queen is the easiest fight in the game. >.>

SteepledHat.1345:

Soloing the spider queen is the easiest fight in the game. >.>

Yes it is sir,yes it is.

Even the corner stack trick has made the so-called OP Kohler not so OP anymore. Just 1 Ele with fgs and reflects plus condi remove should do the trick.

“You heard Grast, hold that corner!

That… that really feels like cheating. AC is so easy with an elly it’s not even remotely fun anymore. I absolutely feel like exploiting the poor Kholer, it just looks pathetic.
….
OMG, they infected me!!! I’ll soon think stacking and skipping are exploits!!! /grabs engi’s flamethrower

P.S. Flemtrhwoer op.

Mike, just for you:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-8906992/dubsweeper.rar.html

If you want the ultimate faceroll, enter 0 as p, field size (n, m) do not matter in that case. Aside of that, you can always use 666,999 as input to automatically solve it.

Dubsweeper crashes for me whenever i try to put in p.

Am i exploiting?

• top ele, 10 min flood control fugg you trash mods

You need to put in p, n, m – seperated by commas. I actually handled that exception to simply restart the user input but I forgot editing the second instance of the py, which I used to create the .exe.

Edit: I also forgot changing back m, n to n, m – so it’s actually probability, width, height.

I WON!

Dubsweeper trolled me when i tried to stack in a corner >.<

Dubsweeper goes crazy.

Go with a dps build in AC with an unexperienced party.
Don t use chat (or be sure pugs aren t good enough to do what you tell them).
If you succeed, then AC is easy.

If you don t, then it could mean tricking AI (calling it AI is even too much) is easy.

LordByron.8369:

Go with a dps build in AC with an unexperienced party.
Don t use chat (or be sure pugs aren t good enough to do what you tell them).
If you succeed, then AC is easy.

If you don t, then it could mean tricking AI (calling it AI is even too much) is easy.

People solo AC my boy. Add 4 meat shields pugs, it changes from soloing to carrying.

Enaretos.8079:

LordByron.8369:

Go with a dps build in AC with an unexperienced party.
Don t use chat (or be sure pugs aren t good enough to do what you tell them).
If you succeed, then AC is easy.

If you don t, then it could mean tricking AI (calling it AI is even too much) is easy.

People solo AC my boy. Add 4 meat shields pugs, it changes from soloing to carrying.

If you think so, i guess you don t pug a lot

Some players actively ruins your solo strategy.
Solo strategies works only due to an indecorous AI, when other players makes so the AI is slightly less predictable, you can t rely in positioning, LoS and stuff like that anymore.

LordByron.8369:

If you think so, i guess you don t pug a lot

Some players actively ruins your solo strategy.
Solo strategies works only due to an indecorous AI, when other players makes so the AI is slightly less predictable, you can t rely in positioning, LoS and stuff like that anymore.

It takes on average 10-30 seconds for a bad to die in a fight he/she doesn’t know. Let them lie on the floor while you solo. You lost 1 minute on a full run.