Guild Wars 2

New stat combo replacing explorer’s with precision as primary stat instead of power. I have no idea how to go about mathing it to figure which is better. When not downscaled from level 80, which stat type would be more effective against crittable entities assuming ~100% crit damage?

Solo: Realistic amount of fury, no buffs from other professions.
Group: 100% Uptime for Banners, Empower Allies, Fury, 25 Might.
Not considering Food/Stacks.

10/25/0/25/10 Guardian:

Solo: Berserker better by 7.8%
Group: Berserker better by 1.8%

30/25/0/0/15 Warrior:

Solo: Berserker better by about 10.5%
Group: Berserker better by about 1.75%

Note: This considers the 100% Critchance Hardcap.

So, as 30/25/0/0/15 warrior it is always better to go full berserker. In a group setting it’s better by 2.5-3.06% (accuracy stacks, 100 prec/10% crit food) than using 1-3 assassin pieces (with bloodlust stacks, 100 power or 100 prec food, stays roughly same).
→ Full Berserker is always better.

Hmmm… So it would break even if you sacrificed 100 power by switching some pieces with assassin and using the 100 power/10%crit food (lasts twice as long at a little under twice the cost of 100 prec/10% crit food). Claws are cheaper than blood too. So not really something you’d get if you already have a berserker set, but something to consider for a set on a new char looking to save some gold.

Now would be a good time for Anet to finally compress a lot more of the awful Traits in Ranger and Engineer, and add new better ones upon Crit. …yeah we get it, Guardian and Warrior is great b/c they scale in a really simple way. Good for them. But this is a real opportunity for them to finally add a little Depth to the whole enchilada. If it works, they could do the same to Ele & Necro too (but focus it more on conditions).

ilr.9675:

Now would be a good time for Anet to finally compress a lot more of the awful Traits in Ranger and Engineer, and add new better ones upon Crit. …yeah we get it, Guardian and Warrior is great b/c they scale in a really simple way. Good for them. But this is a real opportunity for them to finally add a little Depth to the whole enchilada. If it works, they could do the same to Ele & Necro too (but focus it more on conditions).

Suuuure, sure, they will. But at the moment they’re a bit busy preparing the celebration for uhm… for… is there anything left worth a party?
… for the end of summer and the marriage between Jennah and Logan. But they will, surely. Count me on that.

Dub.1273:

Solo: Realistic amount of fury, no buffs from other professions.
Group: 100% Uptime for Banners, Empower Allies, Fury, 25 Might.
Not considering Food/Stacks.

10/25/0/25/10 Guardian:

Solo: Berserker better by 7.8%
Group: Berserker better by 1.8%

30/25/0/0/15 Warrior:

Solo: Berserker better by about 10.5%
Group: Berserker better by about 1.75%

Note: This considers the 100% Critchance Hardcap.

So, as 30/25/0/0/15 warrior it is always better to go full berserker. In a group setting it’s better by 2.5-3.06% (accuracy stacks, 100 prec/10% crit food) than using 1-3 assassin pieces (with bloodlust stacks, 100 power or 100 prec food, stays roughly same).
-> Full Berserker is always better.

Too sleepy to actually write out the math, but at first glance how could the benefit of running zerker instead be lower when you’re expecting higher uptime on critchance buffs which would lower the value of additional precision?

I’ll do some math on the subject.

Assumptions:
Full Berserker vs. Full Assassin (armor, trinkets, weapons, orbs on armor)
+300 power, precision, and +30% crit damage from traits (I.E. idealistic offensive setup that most people wouldn’t run)
Ignoring Fury and Might (class + build specific)
Ignoring stacking sigils
ignoring group composition (banners)
ignoring food (situation specific)
Exotic level gear

Full berserker stats:
2339 Power
1998 Precision (55% chance to crit)
+104% crit amage

Full assassin stats:
1998 Power
2339 Precision (71% crit rate)
104% crit damage

Effective Power = Power x (Crit rate x crit damage mod + (1 – crit rate))

Berserker EFP: 4320
Assassin EFP: 4183

Overall, berserker is about 3.3% better with the conditions I listed. This is a small enough margin that I cannot write off assassin as objectively inferior in every circumstance. Depending on build specifics, particularly things like fury uptime, stat allocation, and procs, assassin may very well be superior to berserker in some circumstances.

EDIT:

Player Character.9467:

Too sleepy to actually write out the math, but at first glance how could the benefit of running zerker instead be lower when you’re expecting higher uptime on critchance buffs which would lower the value of additional precision?

Might. 25 stacks of might gives 875 power, while fury gives roughly 420 precision. Referring to my numbers full bersker only gives 341 additional power. At base this is a 17% increase in power. At full might, this is much smaller; a 12% difference.

Copy-pasted from my Guru post just now:

Did a quick check on DPS in builds switching precision for the major stat:

Without any buffs:
20/30/20/0/0 GS guardian: Berserker slightly better
10/30/30/0/0 sword guardian: Berserker moderately better
30/0/0/10/30 axe warrior: Berserker moderately better
30/0/0/10/30 grenade engineer: Berserker slightly better
20/30/5/15/0 sword ranger: Berserker moderately better
10/30/0/0/30 sword/pistol mesmer: Berserker slightly better

With all possible buffs:
20/30/20/0/0 GS guardian: Berserker slightly better
10/30/0/30/0 sword guardian: Berserker much better
30/0/0/10/30 axe warrior: Nearly identical, Berserker slightly better
30/10/0/0/30 grenade engineer: Nearly identical, Assassin slightly better
20/30/5/15/0 sword ranger: Nearly identical, Berserker slightly better
10/30/0/0/30 sword/pistol mesmer: Assassin slightly better

In general, any disparity is because the class in question gets some degree of bleeding on crits, and bleed scales better than direct with more might since you have a lower (read: no) condition damage stat. Otherwise, we’re talking a difference of often less than 100 DPS out of 10k+, so it really doesn’t matter. In general, Assassin’s is probably better just because it crits more, unless you are a class like the guardian who is liable to go way over the crit cap on certain weapons.

Blood the solo warrior in dub’s build is going to be running a significant amount of might over any fight short enough for SoR to be assumed to last the entire fight.

I was assuming 8 might stacks on average (3 from fgj, 5 from SoR with 60% uptime, short duration stacks from Forceful Greatsword).

I arrived at the conclusion that Assassin is better than Berserker.

It’s my first time doing this on a spreadsheet, can anyone check my rough computations and play around with the variables?

few people in reddit helped me out with calculations. there was a problem in my crit formula. Adjusted spreadsheet has been updated. Assassins is only better with high might stacks and other power buffs

The computation has some assumptions.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwdgjeulMp8YVFhTLW1HY3psbHM/edit?usp=sharing

You mostlikely didn’t think about all variables (food/stacking sigil/might/fury/banners, etc) or simply forgot about the 100% critchance hardcap.

Dub.1273:

You mostlikely didn’t think about all variables (food/stacking sigil/might/fury/banners, etc) or simply forgot about the 100% critchance hardcap.

yeah food i didnt include

check out the variables, sigils fury banners are there.
I played around with increasing power and results are the same. also, im using scholar runes so i never reach 100% cap.

please check it out and tell me what you think

What build did you use on what profession?
When i calculate with full assaassin it gets me to 2345 precision (warrior). With banner and fury that caps 100%, even without food/stacking sigil and with scholar runes.

Edit: I can’t check your sheet at the moment, i’m browsing through forums with my mobile phone. You might ask guang for his worksheet, it seems to be quite accurate and also includes crit-procs to a certain grade.

Dub.1273:

What build did you use on what profession?
When i calculate with full assaassin it gets me to 2345 precision (warrior). With banner and fury that caps 100%, even without food/stacking sigil and with scholar runes.

Edit: I can’t check your sheet at the moment, i’m browsing through forums with my mobile phone. You might ask guang for his worksheet, it seems to be quite accurate and also includes crit-procs to a certain grade.

pretty much basic war build
30/0/0/10/30. Group dungeon setup

I avoid forceful GS because of the 5s might stacks, and 30 disc gives 30% crit dmg and 15% crit chance

Exo Berserker Armors, Ascended Berserker Trinkets, Scholar Runes

EDIT: calculated your precision 2345. With fury (and if that is already with banner) you hit 92.52% crit chance it was without banner, with banner = 100%

How i calculated precision is based on wiki article, i also checked with my own war, it checks out http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision.

in short: first 927 precision is 5% crit chance, every 21 after that is +1%

2345 is without banner.

Assassin stats sound perfect for my 10/30/0/30/0 reflection mesmer though.

For a x/30/x/x/x mesmer a mix of assassin and berserker is going to be best.

Dub.1273:

2345 is without banner.

ah, then that’s 100%

Math aside, it’s obvious to see how it works.

Berserker adds more Power, and less Precision. So each hit will deal, on average, more damage. With Assassin, your Precision is higher, so you will crit more, but each hit will deal less damage. Just depends on if the RNG gods smile upon you when determining if you’re gonna critical hit or not

Berserker Mesmer without Spotter shout be at about 97% crit chance with Banner, Fury, Perception, and Food. I may be leaving something out though. That’s also using a 10/30/0/20/10 build.

You might miss out 4% of the trait.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Berserker Mesmer without Spotter shout be at about 97% crit chance with Banner, Fury, Perception, and Food. I may be leaving something out though. That’s also using a 10/30/0/20/10 build.

Didn’t we talk about this last night? 10/30/0/0/30 zerk/Scholar mesmer with 38% base crit chance from gear + 14% from Dueling + 8% from Discipline + 7% from Spotter + 20% from Fury = 87%. That puts you 5% over if you switch to Assassin. The rest you can substitute for power instead of precision (i.e. +100 power from food instead of +100 precision, Bloodlust instead of Perception). That puts you at 105% for an Assassin set which means you are not going to cap unless you are getting more than 9% crit chance from traits.

I am going to give this general list of rules so there isn’t any confusion. It’s not 100% accurate or exhaustive but it is pretty close:

Factors that favor Assassin:
- Getting less than 9% crit chance in total (via precision stat and trait boosts like RH Strength) via traits
- Having damage-dealing procs, i.e. bleed or lifesteal on crit.
- Having damage-boosting boons procs, i.e. might or vuln on crit, IF your party isn’t maxed on those already.
- Having a 2H weapon as your main DPS weapon, i.e. having only one sigil.
- Not having any or all of the following buffs on you at all times: Banner of Discipline, Spotter, Fury

Factors that favor Berserker:
- Getting MORE than 9% crit chance from traits
- Using a 1H weapon as your main DPS weapon AND not having a better sigil combination than Force + Accuracy (i.e. no Night, Race-Slaying, stacking sigils)
- Ruby Orbs being better than Scholar Runes for your specific setup
- Playing content where there are a lot of mobs that cannot be crit on.
- Having minimal might stacks.

10: III
30: IV, X, XI
0
20: II, VIII
10: III

All Berserker’s armor. That gives us 54% base crit chance. 8% from Banner of Discipline makes it brings us to 62%. 11% from Perception stacks brings us to 73%. 20% from Fury brings us to 93%. 7% from Spotter if we have it would take us to 100%. Food puts us past 100%. If no spotter and only food, food would add about 3% crit chance taking us to 96% crit chance (possibly 97%).

The difference is you can choose the ~300 power(berserker) or 15% crit chance(assassin).

Just swap in rampagers in your builder until it gets updated to see how much precision it would add. Personally, I’m not going to bother.