(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
Attitude about dungeons is irrational
I think more recipes with tokens would be a great start, if they’re willing to put a few one off weapon skins into the game. Maybe some more cosmetic auras/infusions?
I think it was irresponsible just nerfing the gold without giving something else to compensate, like an extra rare or mats, or something else more creative.
[EG] is recruiting!
Dungeons provided an easy option for people to spend their time, whether or not they needed gold or tokens.
Raids are fine and all, but how easy is it to throw together a group and get going.
Fractals were fun, but now it’s just a swamp fest, easier than running AC…….. even at high lvls
The Aetherblade addition to TA was one of my favorite add on’s in general
And it would be easy enough to update the things you can buy with tokens: we have guild halls that need decorations, among other things.
Yeah, assets from the dungeons available as guild hall decorations is actually a fantastic idea. Members could trade dungeon currency for decoration tokens. It would be a cool guild activity to work towards, and is a natural fit since dungeons are already group oriented content.
The assets already exist too, it would be a little work for some very cool payout. I think Guild Hall decorations are one of the best things they’ve done in the expansion, aside from the costs associated with them, which they’re fixing soon.
[EG] is recruiting!
you need to bring dungeons back
ANet never sent them away; we did. All they did was reduce the coin reward; token & loot rewards remain the same.
Among the reasons were to make the rewards for other, newer content more comparable. The alternative — increasing the coin rewards for everything else — would end up devaluing coin (if everyone has more gold, then everyone is willing to spend it more freely).
Maybe ANet cut coin by too much. Maybe they should abandon some other game mode in favor of dungeons (although it’s much easier to add one new fractal). But let’s make sure we understand who killed dungeons: we did, when we decided that 70 silver less made them not worth our time.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Why give something else when they dont want us to play dungeons?
It sucks yes but thats what they want.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
TBH I agree their attitude towards instanced content is extremely weird. Currently it’s somewhat favourable, but I’m pretty sure that’s gonna be rather short lived. After wing 3 and 1-2 new fractals we prob won’t see a proper update anymore for years.
you need to bring dungeons back
But let’s make sure we understand who killed dungeons: we did, when we decided that 70 silver less made them not worth our time.
Right, it wasn’t purposefully chosen by the economy devs to make it feel unrewarding.
I remember when I was playing GW1 I did dungeons for fun and for the challenge, not for the reward.
‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong
‘would of been’ —> wrong
This is how I see it:
Feels like the decision was based on multiple things rather than just simple game economics.
Dungeons had been pretty much abandoned long before this reward nerf. The change of focus happened years ago.
Another reason is probably the supposed elitism and toxicity of the dungeon community, especially towards new players. As this game is supposed to be about playing together and having fun.
And finally and most importantly the exclusionary part of the dungeons with their great way to make coin which made everyone not able to run a full dungeon tour in three hours feel at a disadvantage.
Simply bringing up the liquid gold income as the main reason is so naive. We could have gone the route of less liquid gold rewards and more tokens or other stuff from dungeons if they actually wanted rewards to stay at a similar level.
The introduction of new ways to earn gold rewards after the dungeon nerf just cements the point.
Raids are supposed to be everything dungeons weren’t in the end.
Hard PvE content people can not speedrun to death, not a liquid gold generator that excludes most members of the population and easier to design than full dungeons with multiple paths.
Fractals on the other hand are supposed to be rewading PvE content for all skills levels and all levels of gear. Not excluding anyone from good rewards.
Many people hated dungeons for the reasons I mentioned. Many are happy with rewards nerf mainly because they no longer feel like they are losing anything if they do not get into dungeons.
The new thing to hate are raids and the future exclusivity of legendary armor. Pretty much how this community works.
I remember when I was playing GW1 I did dungeons for fun and for the challenge, not for the reward.
Even with the tiny stat difference between exotic and ascended and all – gear still matters in this game.
The eventual decent amount gold that I would earn by simply playing content I loved even with far from optimal pugs was nice to have.
Not having to worry about how you will finance your gear without having to do stuff you dislike was nice. I know, dungeon players are far from the only ones with this problem. WvW players can sing you a sad song about that.
(edited by Henry.5713)
Outside of rewards, the problem with dungeons is almost exclusively just the difficulty and tuning.
Tune up the dungeons to require Exotic gear rather than blues/greens as is the current tuning point.
Tune up bosses and mobs with more relevant mechanics, as well as new AI that we’ve seen around the place, particularly the Shatterer remix.
Raids build camaraderie because they’re hard and you actually need to work together. Most dungeon paths don’t seem to do that.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
Raids were needed, and their popularity shows how you can’t replace controlled small group content with uncontrolled zerg content
Popularity? Do you have any proofs for that?
According to gw2efficiency
58,5% of the players have 0 Magnetite Shards = most probably, have never raided
20% of the players have > 76 Magnetite Shards = most probably, have tried raiding but weren’t very successful
10% of the players have > 240 Magnetite Shards = most probably, raids sporadic
1% of the players have > 1,271 Magnetite Shards = most probably, raids often
Content which is used regularly only by a few percent of the player base can’t be called popular. On top of that bad numbers I’m quite sure that gw2efficiency is mostly used by more ambitious players so the numbers across all players are most probably even worse.
Raids were needed, and their popularity shows how you can’t replace controlled small group content with uncontrolled zerg content
Popularity? Do you have any proofs for that?
According to gw2efficiency
58,5% of the players have 0 Magnetite Shards = most probably, have never raided
20% of the players have > 76 Magnetite Shards = most probably, have tried raiding but weren’t very successful
10% of the players have > 240 Magnetite Shards = most probably, raids sporadic
1% of the players have > 1,271 Magnetite Shards = most probably, raids oftenContent which is used regularly only by a few percent of the player base can’t be called popular. On top of that bad numbers I’m quite sure that gw2efficiency is mostly used by more ambitious players so the numbers across all players are most probably even worse.
How does GW2 efficiency deal with inactive accounts/accounts which don’t have HoT?
It’s also worth noting that the OP’s point revolves more around dungeons than around raids themselves. Raids were necessary because they filled the hole that dungeons’ falling out created- or, imo, that they never adequately filled in the first place.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
How does GW2 efficiency deal with inactive accounts/accounts which don’t have HoT?
Sadly, not very good. More than 75% of the accounts own Airship parts, so they must have HoT.
GW2 efficiency isn’t the best source of this kind of information, but it is the best I know because I’m not aware of any kind of official data for this kind of information.
I liked Dungeons and I would love to see a comeback of them, but I wouldn’t see the popularity of raids as an argument for their comeback, because I’m in doubt about that popularity.
Raids were needed, and their popularity shows how you can’t replace controlled small group content with uncontrolled zerg content
Popularity? Do you have any proofs for that?
According to gw2efficiency
58,5% of the players have 0 Magnetite Shards = most probably, have never raided
20% of the players have > 76 Magnetite Shards = most probably, have tried raiding but weren’t very successful
10% of the players have > 240 Magnetite Shards = most probably, raids sporadic
1% of the players have > 1,271 Magnetite Shards = most probably, raids oftenContent which is used regularly only by a few percent of the player base can’t be called popular. On top of that bad numbers I’m quite sure that gw2efficiency is mostly used by more ambitious players so the numbers across all players are most probably even worse.
Most ppl spend their shards you know. xD
Gear, viper trinkets or if they don’t need any of that once they reach 1k the infusion to get some gold.
Raids are not their primary focus. For smth extra done on the side it’s quite successful and fills a need that absolutely necessary to keep any more serious PvEr.
(edited by cranos.5913)
The comments on dungeons creating a toxic grp environment…… because raid and fractal grps are any less “toxic”
I personally have never really experienced a level of toxicity that would make me dislike trying to party up for dungeons, but at the same time, I avoided any LFG’s that looked particularly arrogant/toxic, because from experience, those were rarely my fastest runs.
As far as success for the raids, it was always meant for a smaller subset of the population, similar to tribulation mode, most of the population will never try it, and many of those who do try, will probably try once, ever.
Even with fractals, I find it hard to persuade non-fractal people to do fractals, even when I tell them my friends and I will basically carry them lol…..
Dungeons were a lot easier to get people into, and once they had a good experience with the dungeons, they liked it, some more than others, but at least it broke the notion of “dungeons are hard, I don’t wanna touch it ever”.
I think more recipes with tokens would be a great start, if they’re willing to put a few one off weapon skins into the game. Maybe some more cosmetic auras/infusions?
Yeah, assets from the dungeons available as guild hall decorations is actually a fantastic idea. Members could trade dungeon currency for decoration tokens. It would be a cool guild activity to work towards, and is a natural fit since dungeons are already group oriented content.
The assets already exist too, it would be a little work for some very cool payout. I think Guild Hall decorations are one of the best things they’ve done in the expansion, aside from the costs associated with them, which they’re fixing soon.
110% agree with all of the above.
As for infusions, i think this is a neat concept which can be expanded upon by having jewel crafting 500 (and some unique materials from dungeons/tokens/recipes).
All anet really needs to do with regards to dungeons is add a scaling system like in fractals. I admit raids are the new hotness, but I just don’t have the kind of schedule that allows me to game for a solid, uninterrupted hour. Fractals are great because they rarely take longer than 10-15 minutes. I’d run dungeons for some more variety, but since the rewards were gutted, I can rarely find a group, and when I can find one, half the party is relatively new to the game and we end up wiping a few times. Therefore, I just gave up on them entirely.
Osu
There is already some incentives to play dungeons : low level mats. Their price has rised after dungeon nerf because they were a good source of it.
That is the kind of things that were good with downscaling and why making all dungeons lvl 80 would be bad.
On a side not, life one year ago was not as easy. How many people were here on the forum to complain about dungeons, whether they were too easy, too short, too hard, too long, about the fact that speedruns were killing the economy, about the fact that even speedrunning them the rewards were not high enough, that they were skill less (zerk meta around a corner), that they were higly skilled gameplay (managing active defence to be able to wear zerk armor)……..
Today everyone seems to agree that it was the best content in this game and that they shouldn’t have touched it.
Also don’t forget about several bugs that were never repaired (some were at best acknowledged).
you need to bring dungeons back
ANet never sent them away; we did. All they did was reduce the coin reward; token & loot rewards remain the same.
Among the reasons were to make the rewards for other, newer content more comparable. The alternative — increasing the coin rewards for everything else — would end up devaluing coin (if everyone has more gold, then everyone is willing to spend it more freely).
Maybe ANet cut coin by too much. Maybe they should abandon some other game mode in favor of dungeons (although it’s much easier to add one new fractal). But let’s make sure we understand who killed dungeons: we did, when we decided that 70 silver less made them not worth our time.
Dungeons were dead for a long time before the reward nerf — that was just the final blow.
We didn’t kill dungeons by not running them after the rewards changed (which, anet admitted, was a ploy to further disincentivize running them). They were killed when ArenaNet fired the dungeon team and completely abandoned the content 3 years or so ago.
Think about that — three years without extensions, updates, or even bugfixes. The only time they touch them is when there’s a player-benefiting exploit, like TA story’s infinite gold/XP exploit a while back.
I mean, hell — they refuse to even comment on whether major changes in behavior were intentional or not. They just ignore dungeon issues until we get fed up and stop bothering to ask/care. I hope they don’t wonder why there’s so much animosity towards them.
Sure, restoring the rewards would trigger an increase in activity, but not much. We were already sick to death of them when the rewards dropped. If HOT had shipped with just 1-2 new dungeon maps I might have stuck around, but raids just don’t scratch that itch.
I mean, I get that the original dungeon implementations are unmaintainable. They haven’t explicitly said so, but reading between the lines it’s obvious — the scripting is fragile and finding/fixing bugs is too much work. I assume that’s the reason for St. Hrouda’s departure. What confounds me is that they’ve not created any new dungeons using better scripting, more experienced devs, and the more stable dynamic event system that the rest of the dev team is more familiar with maintaining. I suppose the new fractals are supposed to be that, but ‘too little too late’ has been the running theme for GW2 development.
But yeah. We didn’t kill dungeons. They did, and it happened long, long ago.
(edited by dlonie.6547)
Most ppl spend their shards you know. xD
Since there are no cheap items to buy with shards it is nearly impossible to get to 0 shards by spending them.
Most ppl spend their shards you know. xD
Since there are no cheap items to buy with shards it is nearly impossible to get to 0 shards by spending them.
I never said that. However the “failing at raid” and “raid sporadically” is ridiculous. I have 59 shards and I raid around 5 days a week.
Yeah, it’s easily possible to be under 150/200 shards (or however much the cheapest stuff is, I forget) because if you had more you’d spend it buying stuff.
HAF 912 | i7-3770k @ 4.5 GHz | MSI GTX 1070 GAMING 8GB | Gigabyte Z77X-D3H
EGVA SuperNOVA B2 750W | 16 GB DDR3 1600 | Acer XG270HU | Win 10×64
MX Brown Quickfire XT | Commander Shaussman [AGNY]- Fort Aspenwood
EGVA SuperNOVA B2 750W | 16 GB DDR3 1600 | Acer XG270HU | Win 10×64
MX Brown Quickfire XT | Commander Shaussman [AGNY]- Fort Aspenwood
I think dungeons should be places to grind for special loot.
Right now they are long event chains along linear paths. People just skip as much as possible to trigger the next event. The whole purpose is to complete the sequence as quickly as possible. That is what kills the fun, not the bosses or environments, though they need refreshes.
If I could camp an area challenging a variety of bosses spawning there for specific loot, dungeons would be more fun.
TBH I agree their attitude towards instanced content is extremely weird. Currently it’s somewhat favourable, but I’m pretty sure that’s gonna be rather short lived. After wing 3 and 1-2 new fractals we prob won’t see a proper update anymore for years.
you need to bring dungeons back
But let’s make sure we understand who killed dungeons: we did, when we decided that 70 silver less made them not worth our time.
Right, it wasn’t purposefully chosen by the economy devs to make it feel unrewarding.
You misunderstand me. Of course the devs deliberately reduced the rewards to drive people to other content (I even stated this). But we decided that just 70 silver was all it took so that we called dungeons “dead”.
ANet made game rewards more competitive with dungeons. They could have done that by increasing rewards outside of dungeons, which would have caused inflation and been ultimately worse for newer or less active players. Instead, they decided to reduce dungeon rewards.
We then decided that dungeons are too boring, too repetitive to be worth doing. As far as I’m concerned, dungeons are just as worth my time now as they were before, because done occasionally, they’re fun. Done every day for 2-4 hours, not so much.
It’s probably hard to see my point of view unless you agree with ANet that the liquid dungeon rewards were too generous.
tl;dr sure ANet wanted us to be comparably rewarded for doing other things, but they didn’t remove dungeons from games.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
TBH I agree their attitude towards instanced content is extremely weird. Currently it’s somewhat favourable, but I’m pretty sure that’s gonna be rather short lived. After wing 3 and 1-2 new fractals we prob won’t see a proper update anymore for years.
you need to bring dungeons back
But let’s make sure we understand who killed dungeons: we did, when we decided that 70 silver less made them not worth our time.
Right, it wasn’t purposefully chosen by the economy devs to make it feel unrewarding.
You misunderstand me. Of course the devs deliberately reduced the rewards to drive people to other content (I even stated this). But we decided that just 70 silver was all it took so that we called dungeons “dead”.
ANet made game rewards more competitive with dungeons. They could have done that by increasing rewards outside of dungeons, which would have caused inflation and been ultimately worse for newer or less active players. Instead, they decided to reduce dungeon rewards.
We then decided that dungeons are too boring, too repetitive to be worth doing. As far as I’m concerned, dungeons are just as worth my time now as they were before, because done occasionally, they’re fun. Done every day for 2-4 hours, not so much.
It’s probably hard to see my point of view unless you agree with ANet that the liquid dungeon rewards were too generous.
tl;dr sure ANet wanted us to be comparably rewarded for doing other things, but they didn’t remove dungeons from games.
lol ok, so rewards in other aspects are now competitive with dungeons instead of flat out 10 times better? wat…
We decided jack kitten. Anet purposefully nerfed rewards to far below other content to the point that it’s no longer worth doing unless you have the recipes. Daily 3h+ dungeon tours and at least 2 FoTM runs reduced to 30min of fractal dailies. Smart move.
Raids are supposed to be everything dungeons weren’t in the end.
And yet the reasons you brought up are even more present in raids than in dungeons. The toxicity levels are even higher, there are desirable rewards you can’t get anywhere else, and as far as exclusionary content goes, raids are pretty much a gold standard of it.
I remember when I was playing GW1 I did dungeons for fun and for the challenge, not for the reward.
But i’m sure them actually having good rewards didn’t hurt. You were having fun, but you weren’t spending time in unrewarding content either.
tl;dr sure ANet wanted us to be comparably rewarded for doing other things, but they didn’t remove dungeons from games.
Considering they have stated that the reward nerf’s goal was to make people stop running dungeons, if 70 silver nerf wasn’t enough they would just have nerfed it even more. Yes, it was Anet that killed dungeons, and they did it intentionally.
Though fortunately it seems they didn’t think it would cause as big an outcry as it did, and they’re backpedaling now.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Yeah, it’s easily possible to be under 150/200 shards (or however much the cheapest stuff is, I forget) because if you had more you’d spend it buying stuff.
This is only about a few percent of the players. Since the most players have 0 shards that doesn’t change much. Raids aren’t popular if the most players didn’t do them.
Raids are supposed to be everything dungeons weren’t in the end.
And yet the reasons you brought up are even more present in raids than in dungeons. The toxicity levels are even higher, there are desirable rewards you can’t get anywhere else, and as far as exclusionary content goes, raids are pretty much a gold standard of it.
The major difference is that raids are in no way as or even more rewarding as other top “gold farming” content in this game.
Raids are supposed to be exclusive by design. That is why they did their best to keep the gold rewards as low as possible to not make anyone feel at a disadvantage like they did with dungeons previously. The best ways to earn gold have been the ones accessible to everyone for longest time already.
The only exclusive items are the new trinkets. Rather sure those will not stay exclusive to raids in the long run.
Raids would reward you with 50g-100g per week or let’s say 10g per run and no weekly cap if it was up to me. Don’t think they will ever go with what people like me would want, though.
(edited by Henry.5713)
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
The dungeon clearing community used to be quite big. Dungeons always were and still are fun to a lot of players. This community has been a good indication on how well liked dungeons were even after over three years of almost no updates.
Other players felt forced to step into dungeons daily to farm enough gold to keep up or achieve whatever goal they had. Those certainly are the ones who only ever played them for the gold.
The same thing can be said for everyone who is forced to play whichever event chain is currently most rewarding, though. Many do not enjoy any of that but still have to play them for hundreds of hours to keep up with the inflation.
The continual neglect and eventual openly stated abandonment of the dungeons was why many quit or moved on to other things or games. The actual harsh reward nerf was just the last straw at the end of this process for many of us who still had some hope to see new dungeons some day.
Even if you are one of the lucky few who own multiple of the most expensive dungeon recipes you still are effected by those points as well as the fact that it is getting harder to find pugs and most people you played with quit or lost all interest in dungeons.
At least that is how I feel about it.
liquid gold v other rewards is an important distinction, max speed raids provide very little liquid gold compared to max speed dungeons
it’s not just the raw amount of time it takes to clear or the expertise but it’s the weekly cap that helps keep the amount of money injected by raids limited compared to dungeons
if dungeons ran on a weekly cap similar to raids they could probably reward more liquid gold and still feel rewarding
Nalhadia – Kaineng
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
Outside of rewards, the problem with dungeons is almost exclusively just the difficulty and tuning.
Tune up the dungeons to require Exotic gear rather than blues/greens as is the current tuning point.
Tune up bosses and mobs with more relevant mechanics, as well as new AI that we’ve seen around the place, particularly the Shatterer remix.Raids build camaraderie because they’re hard and you actually need to work together. Most dungeon paths don’t seem to do that.
The problem is, most dungeons aren’t level 80 content. They’re 35, kitten, 65, 75 level content. They were meant to be doable at that level, i.e. in masterwork level gear.
Anyway, now to post about stuff that has nothing to do with the above: One of the reasons why the dungeons were abandoned was because all of the changes/updates that were made to dungeons weren’t well received. The amount of time it took to remake and tune up dungeons just wasn’t cost effective.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
You say it makes perfect sense to get rid of dungeons. No more dungeons = reduced playtime.
Updated & rewarding dungeons please.
All I used to do was ac- arah, now i log in for dailies! thanks anet you really had my interests at heart<3
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
They nerfed dungeons because they dissolved dungeon team long ago (based on wrong interpretation of metrics), and noone else wanted to bother fishing in the code they did not understand in order to fix bugs.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
You say it makes perfect sense to get rid of dungeons. No more dungeons = reduced playtime.
No more dungeons doesn’t not result in reduced playtime unless you don’t substitute for other content. Anet does not tell you what content you will do; you decide that.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
They nerfed dungeons because they dissolved dungeon team long ago (based on wrong interpretation of metrics), and noone else wanted to bother fishing in the code they did not understand in order to fix bugs.
That doesn’t change what I said … if the dungeon content is just a gold faucet and Anet didn’t want that gold faucet to be on dungeons … it’s simple people.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
I think you misunderstood what I said. Unsupported content will not maintain interest from players forever. At some point the only people left doing it will be types like gold farmers. It happened because the devs stopped supporting it, not because the content sucked.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
You say it makes perfect sense to get rid of dungeons. No more dungeons = reduced playtime.
No more dungeons doesn’t not result in reduced playtime unless you don’t substitute for other content. Anet does not tell you what content you will do; you decide that.
There’s no alternative though. Fractal dailies are shorter than they were pre-HoT, dungeons not worth doing and raids on a weekly cooldown.
You can see how their attitude towards dungeons and instanced content in general is quite weird, no? It’s like they no longer wanted people to play instanced content on a daily basis.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
You say it makes perfect sense to get rid of dungeons. No more dungeons = reduced playtime.
No more dungeons doesn’t not result in reduced playtime unless you don’t substitute for other content. Anet does not tell you what content you will do; you decide that.
There’s no alternative though. Fractal dailies are shorter than they were pre-HoT, dungeons not worth doing and raids on a weekly cooldown.
You can see how their attitude towards dungeons and instanced content in general is quite weird, no? It’s like they no longer wanted people to play instanced content on a daily basis.
Those might not be alternatives to you. I don’t see their attitude as weird at all. In fact, I think it goes directly to how they approach GW2 as an atypical MMO. There are LOTS of things in this game that Anet purposefully did to avoid the standard approaches to providing an MMO. I think dungeons is just another one of those. Albeit, it wasn’t successful, but when you try new things in the market, sometimes the market doesn’t like them. It happens.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
I think you misunderstood what I said. Unsupported content will not maintain interest from players forever. At some point the only people left doing it will be types like gold farmers. It happened because the devs stopped supporting it, not because the content sucked.
Yes, unsupported content does not maintain player interest and yes the people left doing it were gold farmers … so what I said makes sense. Anet did not want that to be a gold faucet for farmers.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
You say it makes perfect sense to get rid of dungeons. No more dungeons = reduced playtime.
No more dungeons doesn’t not result in reduced playtime unless you don’t substitute for other content. Anet does not tell you what content you will do; you decide that.
There’s no alternative though. Fractal dailies are shorter than they were pre-HoT, dungeons not worth doing and raids on a weekly cooldown.
You can see how their attitude towards dungeons and instanced content in general is quite weird, no? It’s like they no longer wanted people to play instanced content on a daily basis.
Those might not be alternatives to you. I don’t see their attitude as weird at all. In fact, I think it goes directly to how they approach GW2 as an atypical MMO. There are LOTS of things in this game that Anet purposefully did to avoid the standard approaches to providing an MMO. I think dungeons is just another one of those. Albeit, it wasn’t successful, but when you try new things in the market, sometimes the market doesn’t like them. It happens.
Really? Purposefully destroying a dungeon community, taking away the stuff they were enjoying before the expac makes sense to you?
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
You say it makes perfect sense to get rid of dungeons. No more dungeons = reduced playtime.
No more dungeons doesn’t not result in reduced playtime unless you don’t substitute for other content. Anet does not tell you what content you will do; you decide that.
There’s no alternative though. Fractal dailies are shorter than they were pre-HoT, dungeons not worth doing and raids on a weekly cooldown.
You can see how their attitude towards dungeons and instanced content in general is quite weird, no? It’s like they no longer wanted people to play instanced content on a daily basis.
Those might not be alternatives to you. I don’t see their attitude as weird at all. In fact, I think it goes directly to how they approach GW2 as an atypical MMO. There are LOTS of things in this game that Anet purposefully did to avoid the standard approaches to providing an MMO. I think dungeons is just another one of those. Albeit, it wasn’t successful, but when you try new things in the market, sometimes the market doesn’t like them. It happens.
Really? Purposefully destroying a dungeon community, taking away the stuff they were enjoying before the expac makes sense to you?
If you’re going to be sensational, I think there is little value in having a discussion with you. I said it makes sense for Anet to nerf dungeon rewards if the only purpose that people were using dungeons for was to farm gold. Please listen.
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
You say it makes perfect sense to get rid of dungeons. No more dungeons = reduced playtime.
No more dungeons doesn’t not result in reduced playtime unless you don’t substitute for other content. Anet does not tell you what content you will do; you decide that.
There’s no alternative though. Fractal dailies are shorter than they were pre-HoT, dungeons not worth doing and raids on a weekly cooldown.
You can see how their attitude towards dungeons and instanced content in general is quite weird, no? It’s like they no longer wanted people to play instanced content on a daily basis.
Those might not be alternatives to you. I don’t see their attitude as weird at all. In fact, I think it goes directly to how they approach GW2 as an atypical MMO. There are LOTS of things in this game that Anet purposefully did to avoid the standard approaches to providing an MMO. I think dungeons is just another one of those. Albeit, it wasn’t successful, but when you try new things in the market, sometimes the market doesn’t like them. It happens.
Really? Purposefully destroying a dungeon community, taking away the stuff they were enjoying before the expac makes sense to you?
If you’re going to be sensational, I think there is little value in having a discussion with you. I said it makes sense for Anet to nerf dungeon rewards if the only purpose that people were using dungeons for was to farm gold. Please listen.
And now people use fractals to farm gold when is the nerf comming..
If you’re going to be sensational, I think there is little value in having a discussion with you. I said it makes sense for Anet to nerf dungeon rewards if the only purpose that people were using dungeons for was to farm gold. Please listen.
That’s a big if.
And again, they didn’t nerf dungeon rewards to decrease gold faucets. They did it because they didn’t want to bugfix old/develop new dungeon content.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Illconceived Was Na, Anet deliberately gutted dungeon rewards to drive people into fractals and raids, they literally stated this outright. I know you know that.
If all they wanted was to reduce the amount of gold people were getting, they could have increased the number of dungeon tokens, boosted the drop rate of all those obscure recipes, and so forth. But they didn’t care about that, they just didn’t want people doing dungeons. And they succeeded wonderfully, the dungeon LFG is basically a wasteland.
If Gold was the only reason people were doing dungeons, then dungeons really were not worth supporting as content in the first place.
Gold was the only reason because the content never got any attention from devs after around month 6 or so. They explicitly stated they were trying to drive players away from dungeons instead of putting resources into supporting them, which is asinine.
Yes exactly … It’s not asinine. It makes perfect sense. If people are ONLY doing content for gold, then that’s not quality content to begin with. Anet recognized that and dealt with the problem properly since they decided they weren’t going fix dungeons to be worth doing beyond being a gold faucet.
How does it make sense for a game to give people less content to play and less reasons to log in? I’m confused as to why you think it’s a good idea to reduce playtime.
It doesn’t, but those aren’t the reasons they nerfed dungeons so I don’t see the relevance.
You say it makes perfect sense to get rid of dungeons. No more dungeons = reduced playtime.
No more dungeons doesn’t not result in reduced playtime unless you don’t substitute for other content. Anet does not tell you what content you will do; you decide that.
There’s no alternative though. Fractal dailies are shorter than they were pre-HoT, dungeons not worth doing and raids on a weekly cooldown.
You can see how their attitude towards dungeons and instanced content in general is quite weird, no? It’s like they no longer wanted people to play instanced content on a daily basis.
Those might not be alternatives to you. I don’t see their attitude as weird at all. In fact, I think it goes directly to how they approach GW2 as an atypical MMO. There are LOTS of things in this game that Anet purposefully did to avoid the standard approaches to providing an MMO. I think dungeons is just another one of those. Albeit, it wasn’t successful, but when you try new things in the market, sometimes the market doesn’t like them. It happens.
Really? Purposefully destroying a dungeon community, taking away the stuff they were enjoying before the expac makes sense to you?
If you’re going to be sensational, I think there is little value in having a discussion with you. I said it makes sense for Anet to nerf dungeon rewards if the only purpose that people were using dungeons for was to farm gold. Please listen.
The point is that it makes much less sense than supporting the content they created, especially when it’s something as core to the MMO experience as world dungeons.