GW2 doesn’t have tanks and healers, everyone does damage and everyone looks after their own health pool in the first instance :P
Did you even play the raid in beta?
I don’t own HoT, so I never played the raid or anything else in beta. This is fascinating. Are you telling me that raids will have the trinity in them?
“Be angry about legendary weapons, sure, but what about the recent drought of content?”
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
The first and only boss in the beta had a mechanic where he constantly attacked the guy with the most toughness, allowing other people to go ham.
I have noticed the same behavior in some HoT open world enemies. I took a WvW geared engi in to some hero challenges to open up scrapper, and my moderate level of toughness compared to other people probably in zerker and sinister made the champs attack me 100% of the several minute long fights.
I don’t own HoT, so I never played the raid or anything else in beta. This is fascinating. Are you telling me that raids will have the trinity in them?
No, raid bosses aggro to high toughness so that you have boss control. What you do with the mechanic is up to you.
Between ranger pets(bears and maybe even drakes), earth elementals, necro minions and even mesmer phantasms(lower hp but spammable) there are plenty of things to do the tanking for you.
A lot of dungeon and fractal bosses aggro onto higher toughness. This happening in raids is not new to the game.
Edit: herald trait for toughness per upkeep makes it a very good choice for tank without losing any dps. The other traits in he first herald slot are pretty mediocre. (And this has allowed me to keep a lot of pressure off team mates in Fotm lately & keep bosses where I want them).
Can I throw in some controversial suggestions in for you to think about? Here goes;
Tempest:
Lowest HP lowest armor, so what? 100% protection uptime makes 40% damage reduction. 50 when in earth melee range, 60 with a frost aura on. Add in lots of thoughness and laugh danger in the face. Doubles up as group support with aura-boonsharing
Daredevil:
Its hard to take damage while constantly evading, dd would need a little reset time every now and then tho…
Can I throw in some controversial suggestions in for you to think about? Here goes;
Tempest:
Lowest HP lowest armor, so what? 100% protection uptime makes 40% damage reduction. 50 when in earth melee range, 60 with a frost aura on. Add in lots of thoughness and laugh danger in the face. Doubles up as group support with aura-boonsharing
Daredevil:
Its hard to take damage while constantly evading, dd would need a little reset time every now and then tho…
Not controversial. Classic tank mindset: sac most dps capability to tank.
It’s just not how gw2 combat was designed, and completely uneccesary to do that
As far as pets go smokescale is better than the bears, since it has an invuln under your control and an evade sort of under your control (it’s the first skill it uses when swapped in), plus it helps a bit with breakbars as well. And it’s a second (or third) tier pet in terms of damage as well.
The greatest freedom is the freedom not to get involved.
attacks can be evaded, reflected or blocked: standard guard tank (ups i mean zerk of course) with dodges, aegis, active blocks on focus and shield, shield of courage… will work like always.
attacks need to be facetanked: summoned pets like earth elemental, certain ranger pets, consumables, thieves guild, engineer thumper turret.
boss does not give a kitten about pets and only targets players, attack can not be dodged (cuz high attackspeed or wahtever) or blocked frequently enough: cavalier necromancer. Necro does not need too much precision due to fury, some banner buffs and the amazing “decimate defenses” trait. However he needs some toughness to gain aggro due to him being a light armored class. deathshroud and high heatlh pool make him amazing for facetanking stuff without sacrificing too much dmg.
Primary damage output is with condi, 3.5k armor and run shoutheals as they heal for 3k+ each use. Nice that they also heal allies so you do a significant amount of party healing as well as tanking.
Sustain around 4k burning/tick with spikes of 8-10k depending on might stacks.
I can also confirm that you hold aggro very well, as Anet obviously tuned up the go after toughness mechanic.
I swear people are just posting their favourite class at this point.
On the other hand, it means anet did a fair job of balancing classes in terms of aggro control, considering every single class has been mentioned.
ofc thats because every class can fill multiple roles some are just better at it than others depending on how much they loose doing it
I think that’s the beauty though, anyone’s favorite class can become whatever they want it to be. Sure, a Revenant with shield and using Glint as their legendary has a bunch of blocks and area heals, but an elementalist can stack some serious damage reduction. It’s about how you play not what you play, and that’s one of the things I love most about GW2
Rev, Ele, Burnzerker
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
Chrono. You already do low damage and are primarily there for quickness/alacrity, which means your raid sacrifices less damage from you than from any other class. Additionally, boss control makes it easier to correctly place your well combo for team buffing.
Chrono. You already do low damage and are primarily there for quickness/alacrity, which means your raid sacrifices less damage from you than from any other class. Additionally, boss control makes it easier to correctly place your well combo for team buffing.
I think Arena Net intended the specilizations to push professions into certian roles. It’s not that they can’t be used for other things, but it’s clear Chrono has upped mesmer control and durability options in a very mesmer-esque way (e.g., a mesmer doesn’t survive a hit by mitigating damage completely, they take it and warp time backwards to when they had full health). The gear you get as a chrono in collections also tends towards PvT stats.
Daredevil also seems to be along these lines, but I’m not sure how successful they were with that.
Chrono. You already do low damage and are primarily there for quickness/alacrity, which means your raid sacrifices less damage from you than from any other class. Additionally, boss control makes it easier to correctly place your well combo for team buffing.
I think Arena Net intended the specilizations to push professions into certian roles. It’s not that they can’t be used for other things, but it’s clear Chrono has upped mesmer control and durability options in a very mesmer-esque way (e.g., a mesmer doesn’t survive a hit by mitigating damage completely, they take it and warp time backwards to when they had full health). The gear you get as a chrono in collections also tends towards PvT stats.
Daredevil also seems to be along these lines, but I’m not sure how successful they were with that.
I don’t know about pushing into certain roles since no one is making anyone utilize the specializations, but they definitely added a ton of new options for each profession as to how they play their role
Rev, Ele, Burnzerker
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
I don’t know about pushing into certain roles since no one is making anyone utilize the specializations, but they definitely added a ton of new options for each profession as to how they play their role
Push is probably too strong of a word, provide more tools for one role over another would have been a better way of phrasing it.
I don’t know about pushing into certain roles since no one is making anyone utilize the specializations, but they definitely added a ton of new options for each profession as to how they play their role
Push is probably too strong of a word, provide more tools for one role over another would have been a better way of phrasing it.
That I definitely agree with. For example, I don’t even use the longbow on my dragonhunter, but wading into melee with my greatsword and traps makes for a devastating combo, in the same way that I don’t use the shield for my Herald but the might and fury buffs from Glint’s legendary stance as phenomenal for using a sword/axe combo
Rev, Ele, Burnzerker
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
I am a bit new to this game. I just started playing it around 2 months ago and I super hyped for tanking in GW2. I have been playing before in WoW as tank, with every class that could tank but main tanking as Death Knight, for 7 years sometimes as hard core raider and sometimes as semi hard core raider. I have been trying to tank in fractals with my Reaper. Survivability is to good and in my opinion it should be nerfed a bit. I don’t need to move from any dangerous boss skill. The hardest thing in this game for tank is to hold agrro and generate threat. Would like to see some passive from skill/talent tree that reduce incomming damage and generate more threat from attacks. Giving every class option to taunt would be great too, but every npc should have DR for taunt so you would not play ping pong with him.
(e.g., a mesmer doesn’t survive a hit by mitigating damage completely, they take it and warp time backwards to when they had full health)
Maybe in raids that may be necessary but in the current content, not so much. I ran a few dungeons with my chrono this week and all the time F5 was used for offensive purposes – ie doubling TW & well(s).
As a chrono you have 2 pretty massive dmg mitigation skills Sword #2 and Shield #4. One does nice dmg and other summons aclarity bot – both are great.
From what I’ve tested so far (granted, not as extensively as pre-hot mes studies) chrono personal dps is quite low. If you consider the party dps gained through aclarity/quickness as chrono dps then yes, dps will be insane.
Correct. Which is why pyro said mes does low dps – low personal dps. In which case whatever gear you run will not affect mesmers “dps” as much as other classes since mesmer “dps” is actually whatever the party is dishing out. By taking this approach, mes would actually be a very good “tank” since the aclarity/quickness uptime is not affected by your gear but rather your build, meaning you can still be an effective utility bot as well as keeping the boss attacks to himself.
Not really. You wouldnt say phalanx warrior has insane dps just because it brings might and banners. You would say its moderate dps but boosts party dps so much that it justifies taking it.
You would probably say the same about chrono. Although i have no idea how good chrono dps actually is without alacrity and quickness.
Not really. You wouldnt say phalanx warrior has insane dps just because it brings might and banners. You would say its moderate dps but boosts party dps so much that it justifies taking it.
You would probably say the same about chrono. Although i have no idea how good chrono dps actually is without alacrity and quickness.
You are beginning to sound like nemesis….
Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand
Hello
The hardest thing in this game for tank is to hold agrro and generate threat. Would like to see some passive from skill/talent tree that reduce incomming damage and generate more threat from attacks. Giving every class option to taunt would be great too, but every npc should have DR for taunt so you would not play ping pong with him.
Hello
The hardest thing in this game for tank is to hold agrro and generate threat. Would like to see some passive from skill/talent tree that reduce incomming damage and generate more threat from attacks. Giving every class option to taunt would be great too, but every npc should have DR for taunt so you would not play ping pong with him.
Highest toughness gets aggro. So far.
You have to hit the subject and let him smack you (while you can block) once in a while as well. But high toughness generally ensures you get the aggro when it resets.
Correct. Which is why pyro said mes does low dps – low personal dps. In which case whatever gear you run will not affect mesmers “dps” as much as other classes since mesmer “dps” is actually whatever the party is dishing out. By taking this approach, mes would actually be a very good “tank” since the aclarity/quickness uptime is not affected by your gear but rather your build, meaning you can still be an effective utility bot as well as keeping the boss attacks to himself.
Agree. Which strikes me suddenly whether aclarity and quickness are affected by Boon Duration? and whether a Power/Toughness/Boon/Condi Duration gear would be worth it for a mesmer “tank”. Throwing Condi duration for extra Vuln stacks and/or longer Slow, for example.
“Raids are like fortune cookies. You eat the cookie and then read the paper scraps.”
Not really. You wouldnt say phalanx warrior has insane dps just because it brings might and banners. You would say its moderate dps but boosts party dps so much that it justifies taking it.
You would probably say the same about chrono. Although i have no idea how good chrono dps actually is without alacrity and quickness.
You are beginning to sound like nemesis….
Actually if i was nemesis i would ignore utility completely and compare dps of a support build to another classes 3 minute cooldown burst on a pure dps build.
Chrono personal dps, as always, is by far the lowest dps of any class you’ll take on the raid. Obviously, your dps contribution including quickness and alacrity is massive, that’s why you’re there. Since one person in the raid will sacrifice some dps for boss control from toughness, it makes sense to have that person be the one with the lowest personal dps.
If you’re actually disputing that chrono dps is awful…lol. Let’s do some bearbow math!
Assume: You have 3 swordsmen up 100% of the fight (hint: this won’t even remotely be true)
Assume: Each swordsman attacks for 9k every 3 seconds (hint: this won’t be true either)
Assume: You do as much dps as your 3 swordsmen combined (hint: lolololol)
With these absolutely insanely favorable assumptions, your total dps is 18k. This is drastically lower than even conservative estimates for what a condie engineer does…without alacrity and quickness. There is absolutely no way to argue that chrono has high personal dps.
Agree. Which strikes me suddenly whether aclarity and quickness are affected by Boon Duration? and whether a Power/Toughness/Boon/Condi Duration gear would be worth it for a mesmer “tank”. Throwing Condi duration for extra Vuln stacks and/or longer Slow, for example.
Boon duration only affects quickness. I guess Aclarity isn’t considered a “boon”, probably for balancing reason (?).
Assuming all 3 are swordsmans. It actually may be worth sacrificing swordsmans ~2k dps for the Avenger, for more aclarity on the party. Wells alone can’t sustain aclarity 100%.
Hello
The hardest thing in this game for tank is to hold agrro and generate threat. Would like to see some passive from skill/talent tree that reduce incomming damage and generate more threat from attacks. Giving every class option to taunt would be great too, but every npc should have DR for taunt so you would not play ping pong with him.
Highest toughness gets aggro. So far.
You have to hit the subject and let him smack you (while you can block) once in a while as well. But high toughness generally ensures you get the aggro when it resets.
It would be perfect if it will work always. Once Elementalist in water attunement take every agrro from me. It was in Snowblind fractal at lvl70-80. I have around 3600 tough+ full buffed and boss was following him all the time.
Obviously, but that doesn’t make my rough math wrong. You won’t have 3 swordsmen up 100% of the time because there’s ramp up time on summoning them, and that sacrifices higher party alacrity uptime which almost definitely outweighs the higher dps of swordsman over avenger.
Additionally, my point still stands. Even in an absolutely perfect scenario for chrono with 3 swordsmen 100% of the time and an absolutely ludicrous personal dps value, you’re still doing dps that makes you look like a little kid compared to engineer.
Obviously, but that doesn’t make my rough math wrong. You won’t have 3 swordsmen up 100% of the time because there’s ramp up time on summoning them, and that sacrifices higher party alacrity uptime which almost definitely outweighs the higher dps of swordsman over avenger.
Additionally, my point still stands. Even in an absolutely perfect scenario for chrono with 3 swordsmen 100% of the time and an absolutely ludicrous personal dps value, you’re still doing dps that makes you look like a little kid compared to engineer.
Then you obviously aren’t playing a mesmer right. A chronomancer can do a kitten ton of personal damage and alacrity affects them just as much as the rest of the group (more actually since there’s a trait to double the duration of self-applied alacrity)
Rev, Ele, Burnzerker
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
Obviously, but that doesn’t make my rough math wrong. You won’t have 3 swordsmen up 100% of the time because there’s ramp up time on summoning them, and that sacrifices higher party alacrity uptime which almost definitely outweighs the higher dps of swordsman over avenger.
Additionally, my point still stands. Even in an absolutely perfect scenario for chrono with 3 swordsmen 100% of the time and an absolutely ludicrous personal dps value, you’re still doing dps that makes you look like a little kid compared to engineer.
Then you obviously aren’t playing a mesmer right. A chronomancer can do a kitten ton of personal damage and alacrity affects them just as much as the rest of the group (more actually since there’s a trait to double the duration of self-applied alacrity)
While chronomancer can do a kitten ton of personal damage, and has a much better upkeep of phantasms than pre-HoT mesmer, power creep makes other classes being even better. That is, until Anet starts dishing nerfs out.
If chronomancer existed pre-HoT, it would have done quite well with personal damage, though.
Obviously, but that doesn’t make my rough math wrong. You won’t have 3 swordsmen up 100% of the time because there’s ramp up time on summoning them, and that sacrifices higher party alacrity uptime which almost definitely outweighs the higher dps of swordsman over avenger.
Additionally, my point still stands. Even in an absolutely perfect scenario for chrono with 3 swordsmen 100% of the time and an absolutely ludicrous personal dps value, you’re still doing dps that makes you look like a little kid compared to engineer.
Then you obviously aren’t playing a mesmer right. A chronomancer can do a kitten ton of personal damage and alacrity affects them just as much as the rest of the group (more actually since there’s a trait to double the duration of self-applied alacrity)
Unfortunately, you’re totally wrong. Alacrity has almost no effect at all on Mesmer dps, because Mesmer dps is non-cooldown reliant. Once phantasms are up, our highest dps is to simply autoattack (technically I think blurred frenzy is like 1% higher, but burning it as much as possible will make you lose more dps when you have to dodge instead of just using BF). This is affected by quickness obviously, but not alacrity at all.
Additionally, I’m rather curious as to where you’re getting all this massive personal damage from. Mesmer sword auto is by far the worst melee dps auto in the game, not even considering that most classes have substantial dps boosts from cooldown skills as well. I certainly hope you’re not trying to imply the use of shatters for sustained dps…
Other fun things to note: the trait increases personal alacrity duration by a factor of 1.5, not doubling it. Additionally, playing properly as a chrono means that you and the rest of your party will have 100% uptime on alacrity, so that trait only makes it easier for you to maintain it anyway.
Obviously, but that doesn’t make my rough math wrong. You won’t have 3 swordsmen up 100% of the time because there’s ramp up time on summoning them, and that sacrifices higher party alacrity uptime which almost definitely outweighs the higher dps of swordsman over avenger.
Additionally, my point still stands. Even in an absolutely perfect scenario for chrono with 3 swordsmen 100% of the time and an absolutely ludicrous personal dps value, you’re still doing dps that makes you look like a little kid compared to engineer.
Then you obviously aren’t playing a mesmer right. A chronomancer can do a kitten ton of personal damage and alacrity affects them just as much as the rest of the group (more actually since there’s a trait to double the duration of self-applied alacrity)
Unfortunately, you’re totally wrong. Alacrity has almost no effect at all on Mesmer dps, because Mesmer dps is non-cooldown reliant. Once phantasms are up, our highest dps is to simply autoattack (technically I think blurred frenzy is like 1% higher, but burning it as much as possible will make you lose more dps when you have to dodge instead of just using BF). This is affected by quickness obviously, but not alacrity at all.
Additionally, I’m rather curious as to where you’re getting all this massive personal damage from. Mesmer sword auto is by far the worst melee dps auto in the game, not even considering that most classes have substantial dps boosts from cooldown skills as well. I certainly hope you’re not trying to imply the use of shatters for sustained dps…
Other fun things to note: the trait increases personal alacrity duration by a factor of 1.5, not doubling it. Additionally, playing properly as a chrono means that you and the rest of your party will have 100% uptime on alacrity, so that trait only makes it easier for you to maintain it anyway.
Chronomancer can make great use of shatter builds with the trait that makes it so you get your phantasms back after you shatter them. And Alacrity is most useful for Wells (which give you the ability to cast alacrity even more frequently) and your phantasms skills.
For example: 3 phantasms up, blow all 3 on Continuum and drop all your wells on the same spot, then shatter all 3 phantasms. Then trigger continuum to get all your well CDs back and drop them again. Each of those will give you alacrity and you will have your phantasms, wells, and continuum shatter back in no time for you to rinse an repeat. Mobs melt to this for me, and in groups its even better because of constant alacrity support.
My experience thus far has been that chronomancers are even better at shatter builds than original mesmers while being great dps enablers in groups (much better than before even) and still having great sustained damage. I love my chronomancer and the only reason i don’t play him more is because I’m enjoying the playstyle of the Revenant
EDIT: and shattering phantasms gives alacrity itself so even more of it, though at this point you may find yourself never running out so that doesn’t necessarily add a huge amount
Rev, Ele, Burnzerker
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
.