Guild Wars 2

I haven’t sold any dungeon paths in ages as to be honest I get bored while waiting for groups to fill and having to get 3 people to placehold for me to keep the trolls at bay doesn’t really entertain me either.
Although I’ve been placeholding for a friend lately and all of a sudden there’s people joining his groups to check his instances for boss skips and whatnot, he’s always selling legit instances obviously however I find it very interesting and certainly a worthwhile initiative to keep those filthy exploiters from profitting more than they already have from weaknesses in map and dungeon progression design.
There was actually one guy that joined his group and said “I’m arah polizei and your instance is okay!” and then left, I laughed at the time but then realised that if this initiative becomes more widespread we can probably make people think twice before putting up LFGs of exploited instances.
I’ve only seen this happen in Arah so far, though I always boot exploiters selling AC P1 whenever I bother checking the LFG tool for the dungeon and it’s obviously the one that suffers from these issues the most I don’t even bother checking for the waypoint in the Archive as any thief or class other than elementalist in the dungeon’s current design selling ac p1 has either exploited or kicked party members to sell the path so my conscience is clear.
I wonder what you guys think about this development.

This made my day xD

As long as they’re being far to legit sellers, more power to them!

Edit……. I change my tune a bit below in a later post…misread the last paragraph….

Hmm absolutely not. People taking matters into their own hands instead of reporting people is the absolute worst thing you can do. First of all legit sellers get kicked all the time because of this mentality. Second of all who the hell are you to be a vigilante police.

If ArenaNET wants to stop dungeon selling or to ban people who exploit paths, let THEM do it.

I have never and will never sell dungeons because everyone that I know that does gets kicked for no reason on a daily basis.

Also, you kick people selling AC p1? What the hell? Just because you can’t solo it, doesn’t mean no one can. Maybe they duo’ed and the other person left for more slots. You are the worst type of player and contributing to the dysfunction that plagues the LFG and community.

Kurr.4179:

Also, you kick people selling AC p1? What the hell? Just because you can’t solo it, doesn’t mean no one can. Maybe they duo’ed and the other person left for more slots. You are the worst type of player and contributing to the dysfunction that plagues the LFG and community.

As much as I appreciate a good compliment, I’m afraid I don’t share your romantic view of the general player base. The duo’ing scenario is possible but given the probability of me actually kicking a legit instance being so low as well as the prices that the path is going for these days I refuse to believe somebody goes through the trouble of selling a legit ac p1 instance for less than the daily reward one gets from completing it. In fact, I’m able to solo ac p1 with elementalist as many other experienced individuals certainly are as well and it’s been attempted to exhaustion on other professions by me and many other players who I hold in high regard as far as their proficiency in PvE so I’m not really acting without research to back up my claims.
So I believe I’ll manage to live just fine with the odds and your hatred

Veckna.9621:

I always boot exploiters selling AC P1 whenever I bother checking the LFG tool for the dungeon and it’s obviously the one that suffers from these issues the most I don’t even bother checking for the waypoint in the Archive as any thief or class other than elementalist in the dungeon’s current design selling ac p1 has either exploited or kicked party members to sell the path so my conscience is clear.

Now I just saw the bit about ACp1.

Not sure if trolling, but….

Don’t. Just don’t do that. There are people in this game who solo/duo for a challenge, and AC is one of those paths. After a duo, they might decide to sell some tokens/levels to folks who will give them a bit of gold. Assuming that all AC p1 sellers are exploiters is a huge mistake. Low manning a dungeon is far, far more common than kicking/exploiting to sell. You’ve probably ruined countless players’ otherwise fun (and legal!) evenings with this impulsive white knighting.

dlonie.6547:

Veckna.9621:

I always boot exploiters selling AC P1 whenever I bother checking the LFG tool for the dungeon and it’s obviously the one that suffers from these issues the most I don’t even bother checking for the waypoint in the Archive as any thief or class other than elementalist in the dungeon’s current design selling ac p1 has either exploited or kicked party members to sell the path so my conscience is clear.

Now I just saw the bit about ACp1.

Not sure if trolling, but….

Don’t. Just don’t do that. There are people in this game who solo/duo for a challenge, and AC is one of those paths. After a duo, they might decide to sell some tokens/levels to folks who will give them a bit of gold. Assuming that all AC p1 sellers are exploiters is a huge mistake. Low manning a dungeon is far, far more common than kicking/exploiting to sell. You’ve probably ruined countless players’ otherwise fun (and legal!) evenings with this impulsive white knighting.

You must not play in EU servers… Regardless I’ll start bothering to check for the waypoint in the Archive room now that you’ve made me feel guilty <.<

Edit: 2 minutes after typing up this reply I’ve already caught 3 more sellers with no waypoint at the Archive room. This is how bad the situation is in EU servers right now.

A while ago when dungeon selling wasn’t so wide spread, and only a select few were doing it, many of the sellers at the time exploited the hell out of arah p3. Selling it for over 10g each slot for less then 15m worth of “work” tops. I’m willing to bet you know many of these exploiters, even if you didn’t know they exploited.

This continued until a certain someone got banned for being caught by anet selling an exploited path, and another for just his association with said exploiter #neverforget.

The point this post? Just admiring the irony of it all when i see certain ppl post about kicking others out of their instance for exploiting a path for sale or even just mentioning their distaste for it all. Carry on

if the dungeon police is anyone other than Anet i dont like them

Chris Cleary.8017:

If you report them, we will come.

D:…….

Report the dungeon police… right?

Chris Cleary.8017:

If you report them, we will come.

With all due respect sir, but we have been, and you haven’t. There was a certain person that was grieving sellers for months, and was reported hundreds of times, and nothing. With all due respect sir, show us that you’re going to do what you say.

Note, Ivan’s really not just being a kitten. I know that’s not the response you were hoping for as a reward for venturing into the Dungeon cesspool, but in all honesty H*****d’s Reign of Terror did appear to last for quite a long time.

That said, I think Chris is referring to the exploiters, not the grievers, so maybe there’s a policy reason H*******d was left alone. I don’t agree with it, but that’s probably what it was.

Veckna.9621:

dlonie.6547:

Veckna.9621:

I always boot exploiters selling AC P1 whenever I bother checking the LFG tool for the dungeon and it’s obviously the one that suffers from these issues the most I don’t even bother checking for the waypoint in the Archive as any thief or class other than elementalist in the dungeon’s current design selling ac p1 has either exploited or kicked party members to sell the path so my conscience is clear.

Now I just saw the bit about ACp1.

Not sure if trolling, but….

Don’t. Just don’t do that. There are people in this game who solo/duo for a challenge, and AC is one of those paths. After a duo, they might decide to sell some tokens/levels to folks who will give them a bit of gold. Assuming that all AC p1 sellers are exploiters is a huge mistake. Low manning a dungeon is far, far more common than kicking/exploiting to sell. You’ve probably ruined countless players’ otherwise fun (and legal!) evenings with this impulsive white knighting.

You must not play in EU servers… Regardless I’ll start bothering to check for the waypoint in the Archive room now that you’ve made me feel guilty <.<

Edit: 2 minutes after typing up this reply I’ve already caught 3 more sellers with no waypoint at the Archive room. This is how bad the situation is in EU servers right now.

I am NA. I really don’t see many AC sellers at all these day, but the few I have seen had reasonable classes for a solo/duo/trio.

But yeah, if they don’t have the waypoint, blow it up.

That’s a good point. I apologize Mr. Cleary. I hope you weren’t scared away!

Chris Cleary.8017:

If you report them, we will come.

I do wonder, if we actually wanted to report someone for abusing an exploit would it have to entail getting in contact with support and present evidence? As there’s no category in the report function in-game for abusing exploits.

Lol. Now the real question: do you mean exploits like skipping required bosses, or do you mean what many people around the forums think of, ie: if 1 person did a dungeon this is an exploit because it wasn’t “intended”?

Chris Cleary.8017:

Yes, I meant report the players exploting the dungeons (in-game report is fine, not a bug report).

:) Sorry for confusion!

You’re seriously going to ban players for skipping bosses? Why not fix the instance so that bosses can’t be skipped instead?

It’s been 2 years, and most paths have been completely sequenced by now so that skipping bosses breaks the instance. Why haven’t you done this to every path by now instead of banning players for taking advantage of ingame mechanics.

If you’re not using 3rd party software to skip the bosses—i.e. just clever use of jump mechanics—then you should be kittening ashamed of yourself for banning players for skips. They’re not cheating, and the fault is on the design team for leaving these mechanics in game for 2 years without “fixing” them.

I’m absolutely shocked that a security team member is advocating persecuting players this way.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Lol. Now the real question: do you mean exploits like skipping required bosses, or do you mean what many people around the forums think of, ie: if 1 person did a dungeon this is an exploit because it wasn’t “intended”?

I doubt he sees skill as an exploit. Content in action based games (where you have everything you need on your own character) is always soloable as long as there aren’t any restrictions which make it impossible.

Just another band-aid to a larger problem. The fact that players can actually solo dungeons is a problem

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Lol. Now the real question: do you mean exploits like skipping required bosses, or do you mean what many people around the forums think of, ie: if 1 person did a dungeon this is an exploit because it wasn’t “intended”?

I doubt he sees skill as an exploit. Content in action based games (where you have everything you need on your own character) is always soloable as long as there aren’t any restrictions which make it impossible.

I hope that’s the case. But I’d very much like to be positive.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Ok, let me clarify

“Skips” generally require abuse of terrain to accomplish. An example of this would be “breaking out” of the map in order to bypass content. Doing such would be quantified as exploitation, using an exploit and profiting (“selling” runs) would be quantified as selling an exploit.

Without going into punishment or policy, we are going to be ramping up on GM coverage in dungeons. If you believe that someone is exploiting, please do report them in-game.

Thank you for the clarification.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Ok, let me clarify

“Skips” generally require abuse of terrain to accomplish. An example of this would be “breaking out” of the map in order to bypass content. Doing such would be quantified as exploitation, using an exploit and profiting (“selling” runs) would be quantified as selling an exploit.

Without going into punishment or policy, we are going to be ramping up on GM coverage in dungeons. If you believe that someone is exploiting, please do report them in-game.

Why not fix the terrain glitches or completely sequence paths so that skipping bosses prevents the reward chest from popping (as the design team did with Arah P2 18 months ago)?

Come on teamspeak right now and I can show you three different ways to break out of the map and skip half of Arah P3/4 that have been in game since launch. The burden is on the design team to fix these breakout spots (or even better fix the sequencing) if they disapprove of players using skill-ful leaps to skip bosses.

Banning players for being talented and creative is distrubing, and you should be ashamed of yourself for doing it. Especially when players like myself have offered to show the design team how such map-breakouts are performed and were ignored.

I logged in to say the same. I still don’t understand that in the open world, the design of many areas promotes exploration using the given terrain. Sometimes I go into Arah to jump around just to get a nice view, take some pictures. The p4 skip to orb/lupi every mentions does not take you directly “outside” the level, but rather through the level itself.

Again, in another post, I asked why is it that the dev’s just don’t patch this using a verification method. Did we kill priestess of lyssa? if so, let us unlock the orb event, and consequently unlocking lupi if we finish the orb event. Why is this not possible? I don’t understand why this is on the level designers to go in and spot patch. Can we have answer from a technical stand point?

I’m sorry but I realize I’m steering the thread off topic, but I do hope this gets addressed one way or another.

Do whatever hell you want in your own instance when in arah. No one is going to ban you for jumping puzzles. It is when you start selling paths that were exploited you risk being reported and consequently (and justifiably) perma-banned.

People who exploit by doing unintended jumping puzzles/teleporting outside maps, then sell those paths know perfectly well they are violating the ToS. It all comes down to better gold/time for them, so they don’t care a rat’s behind about “oooOohHh expllooooration.”

I’m all for perma-banning them. Bring down the wrath of the ban-hammer on these heathens who dare sully the sanctity of our Dungeon Solo’ing trade! Smite them to the underworld!!!

Exploring != Exploiting. I mentioned this in the Arah bug post. No more invisible walls, that kills a lot of the really cool things about Arah. Just make the bosses required for rewards so there’s no incentive to skip and sell.

Remove the carrot, don’t lengthen the stick.

Or something.

Errant Venture.9371:

Chris Cleary.8017:

Yes, I meant report the players exploting the dungeons (in-game report is fine, not a bug report).

:) Sorry for confusion!

You’re seriously going to ban players for skipping bosses? Why not fix the instance so that bosses can’t be skipped instead?

…

I’m absolutely shocked that a security team member is advocating persecuting players this way.

Actually, this is exactly how I would expect the security team member (who doesn’t program or decide how the game is programmed to prevent exploiting) to act within the scope of their position. In addition, how do you justify that players not get banned for clearly unintended activity? Because it can be done? You’re new here right?

dlonie.6547:

Exploring != Exploiting. I mentioned this in the Arah bug post. No more invisible walls, that kills a lot of the really cool things about Arah. Just make the bosses required for rewards so there’s no incentive to skip and sell.

Remove the carrot, don’t lengthen the stick.

Or something.

That’s what I’m saying. So how about we get some official responses here, right?

We’ll see if/when they start responding to the dungeon specific threads :-)

Can you imagine….if they made the bosses required, then took the invisible walls down?

dreams happily

Errant Venture.9371:

Chris Cleary.8017:

Ok, let me clarify

“Skips” generally require abuse of terrain to accomplish. An example of this would be “breaking out” of the map in order to bypass content. Doing such would be quantified as exploitation, using an exploit and profiting (“selling” runs) would be quantified as selling an exploit.

Without going into punishment or policy, we are going to be ramping up on GM coverage in dungeons. If you believe that someone is exploiting, please do report them in-game.

The burden is on the design team to fix these breakout spots (or even better fix the sequencing) if they disapprove of players using skill-ful leaps to skip bosses.

Banning players for being talented and creative is distrubing, and you should be ashamed of yourself for doing it. Especially when players like myself have offered to show the design team how such map-breakouts are performed and were ignored.

When, where, and by whom was the decision made where the burden was placed on the design team to fix the breakout spots?

There is no burden on the design team, the developers have told you, just now, very, very clearly what is and is not ok.

I find it hard to believe that any GW2 player could legitimately think breaking out of the map was a product of skill and intended game mechanics.

Sure, it’d be great if every game had perfectly crafted maps where nothing could go wrong ever, personally I’d rather not play such restrictive games, I was never much a fan of Shooters on Rails or whatever that game genre was called.

I can program my mouse to have macros (use a bunch of skills at once for example)
GW2 has stated every button press can only activate 1 skill (macros for many skills at once aren’t allowed)
The burden is not on arena net to figure out how to disable 3rd party macro tools, if they catch someone using a macro, that person will be banned, and that person will have deserved it.

Yes, please ban all those filthy exploiters abusing faulty game design in their own instances.
Meanwhile, there’s no way for you to detect exploiting.
And reports are widely ignored for half a year. See: wvw hackers, h*itred, others.
Theres no anti hack detection either, by the way. It’s pretty sad that endurance, position (therefore speed and teleports) are all client side.
Also, benefit of the doubt for exploiters.

Summary: Nothing happens.

Dub.1273:

Theres no anti hack detection either, by the way. It’s pretty sad that endurance, position (therefore speed and teleports) are all client side.
Also, benefit of the doubt for exploiters.

Summary: Nothing happens.

If server detects abnormal dodges, movement (teleports), and maybe other odd behavior you are dc’d immediately.

So griefing people, which the OP has admitted to doing, is ok? (Not only that, it appears he has griefed innocent people.)

frifox.5283:

Dub.1273:

Theres no anti hack detection either, by the way. It’s pretty sad that endurance, position (therefore speed and teleports) are all client side.
Also, benefit of the doubt for exploiters.

Summary: Nothing happens.

If server detects abnormal dodges or movement (teleports) you are dc’d immediately.

This is false. The client will suffer a DC if you use endurance hacks that set regen above a certain level.

No disconnects occur when teleport hacks occur, though there is some evidence that teleports longer than a certain distance flag accounts to customer support.

There’s no detection or DC associated with speed hacks.

Don’t spread misinformation to look cool on the forums.

Then the times I edited gw2 memory to achieve teleports and then get my client disconnected was all my imagination? (that was about half a year ago, when I was starting to code the gw2dps)

frifox.5283:

Then the times I edited gw2 memory to achieve teleports and then get my client disconnected was all my imagination?

You were using a very clumsy and outdated method, that became partially broken about 10 months ago.