Guild Wars 2

This thing is concealed behind a very strange rng-wall. Which, on its own, would be ok. But it’s timegated, and miniscule. A lot of people I know have gotten it, but not all have. The rate it drops at and the fact that we can’t at least redo the castle to have more attempts at it or something like it dropping from Xera’s chest just make it a nightmare.

To be honest, it’s borderline rude, after all the failures and hours invested – it’s not a false sense of entitlement. The Envoy I set is what the work was for, and hiding it behind a bogus RNG-Timegate is even more rude. It’s all a lot of people have left.

Does anet pay attention to these forums? Can you make this less of a nightmare to acquire for people who aren’t so lucky?

I think they’re aware of the general displeasure (a thread on it was closed recently). Hopefully this will be addressed soon in a patch.

What makes me angry is that we have been waiting 6 months to be able to finish tier 1 of the collection and now at the end, we have the biggest RNG wall.

In my opinion there is no excuse for not changing it since there are many easy solutions:

1.- Drop 100% the first time you do the event.
2.- Add to the merchant 500-1k shards.
3.- Allow to get the chests each time you do the event the same week.

RNG is not fair for players who work hard, clean the raid each week, but are not lucky.

I think the droprate is fine. Got it on 2 accounts on first chest.

Malediktus.9250:

I think the droprate is fine. Got it on 2 accounts on first chest.

Just because you were lucky and got it twice on first attempt, doesn’t mean that drop rate is fair, I tried every week since launch of w3, no luck and this is the only item I’m missing from colection which is very frustrating…

Malediktus.9250:

I think the droprate is fine. Got it on 2 accounts on first chest.

So, you’re saying they should set the droprate to match yours, which happened to be “100% on first try”.

Malediktus.9250:

I think the droprate is fine. Got it on 2 accounts on first chest.

That really means nothing. A random guy could go back to back to back on perfect ecto gamble rolls or mystic toilet rolls. The point integral to my argument is that it’s rng-based and massively time-gated with a poor, poor chance. So poor that there is a real chance many who raid fairly regularly won’t ever see the item.

Malediktus.9250:

I think the droprate is fine. Got it on 2 accounts on first chest.

I have opened all chests for 3 weeks with no luck and the same has happened to a friend, so not all people is as lucky as you.

Robles.7458:

Malediktus.9250:

I think the droprate is fine. Got it on 2 accounts on first chest.

I have opened all chests for 3 weeks with no luck and the same has happened to a friend, so not all people is as lucky as you.

Law of large numbers dictates that there will be outliers in both directions, but the majority of players will get it quick enough

Malediktus.9250:

Robles.7458:

Malediktus.9250:

I think the droprate is fine. Got it on 2 accounts on first chest.

I have opened all chests for 3 weeks with no luck and the same has happened to a friend, so not all people is as lucky as you.

Law of large numbers dictates that there will be outliers in both directions, but the majority of players will get it quick enough

Yeah, and to lock it behind such an arbitrary measure is just straight up rude, as I’ve already said. There’s no reason. It is, through and through, pointless. It’s not a challenge. It’s just an obstruction.

RNG makes loot meaningful and interesting. I find token systems and guranteed rewards very boring.

Malediktus.9250:

RNG makes loot meaningful and interesting. I find token systems and guranteed rewards very boring.

Easy to say that when you were lucky an got the drop the first time. However, it shows very little empathy for the people who are not so lucky.

RNG can be fine when it doesn’t really matter if you get or not the item. However, when you have been working for months towards something like legendary armor, the possibility that RNG stops you from progressing is just horrible.

Your should think that many people can´t finish the tier 1 of the collection because they don’t get the item, and when something is stopping you from getting your objective you don´t see it as interesting.

I have other areas where I am more unlucky with RNG such as precursors (2 drops in 11k+ hours) and tequatl hoards (2 in minimum 500 kills, I stopped counting). While this is unfortunate, it makes looting more interesting because you never know when you get lucky again.
I think it is out of place to complain about te RNG for Bloodstone-Infused-Ectoplasm after merley 3 weeks. If you still do not have it after 3 months of trying all 4 chests you might get my sympathy.

Malediktus.9250:

I have other areas where I am more unlucky with RNG such as precursors (2 drops in 11k+ hours) and tequatl hoards (2 in minimum 500 kills, I stopped counting). While this is unfortunate, it makes looting more interesting because you never know when you get lucky again.

Looting a precursor is different, because it exists the possibility of buying/crafting it. Therefore, if you want to make a legendary weapon it is great if you loot the precursor, but if you are not lucky you can always buy or craft it.

However, with this item RNG is different, you can’t buy it for 1k gold or 1k magnetite shards, you can only try to loot it but if you don´t get it, you will never finish the legendary armor.

Malediktus.9250:

RNG makes loot meaningful and interesting. I find token systems and guranteed rewards very boring.

I agree for many content (such precursor drop or such) but not for this one, Legendary Armor collection should reward one’s skill in raids and not rng!

Malediktus.9250:

I think it is out of place to complain about te RNG for Bloodstone-Infused-Ectoplasm after merley 3 weeks. If you still do not have it after 3 months of trying all 4 chests you might get my sympathy.

Merely 3 weeks? You dropped on first try, can you even think how much frustrating is to can try chests only once per week with ectoplasm being the last item you need??! 3 months…you’re crazy…(p.s. precursors or similar drop shouldn’t just be compared to this because they don’t block progression of anything and they can be tried to drop much more than once per week)

Malediktus.9250:

I have other areas where I am more unlucky with RNG such as precursors (2 drops in 11k+ hours) and tequatl hoards (2 in minimum 500 kills, I stopped counting). While this is unfortunate, it makes looting more interesting because you never know when you get lucky again.
I think it is out of place to complain about te RNG for Bloodstone-Infused-Ectoplasm after merley 3 weeks. If you still do not have it after 3 months of trying all 4 chests you might get my sympathy.

These two can not be compared. They are fundamentally different goals and concepts.

This is still easy for you to say, with a very lucky RNG. A lot of us want to move to the next piece of content, not be blocked by a completely pointless wall we might never pass, despite clearing raids for dozens, even hundreds of hours.

Malediktus.9250:

RNG makes loot meaningful and interesting. I find token systems and guranteed rewards very boring.

Yeah, easy to say when you get good RNG. For the rest of us without insane amounts of luck, RNG just sucks. I’d be willing to bet that if you’d spent 3 weeks without getting it, you’d be singing a different tune.

Gonna do raids later tonight and if I don’t get the Bloodstone-Infused Ectoplasm this week again I’ll be very very displeased. That’s the only thing blocking my collection progress for weeks.

Another week more waiting to open the chests only to get the bloodstone infused ectoplam and no luck.
I have already been waiting 4 weeks. How many weeks should I be waiting until deserve to finish this collection?
If this does not change, legendary armor will be a symbol of great RNG and no skill.

Same situation as you, just tried few min ago and…NOTHING!!!! It’s one f***ing MONTH (4 weeks) i try chests every week and that’s the only item i’m missing in a collection which should just reward skill in raid but which is both time-gated (and it could accettable if it had the drop rate of pre-gorseval chests) AND (especially) rng-gated, very disappointed -.-’

Same here. Friend who cant raid joined my instance cleaned and took it first chest. Gettingn sad now

I’ve been doing the new raid since it released. I have yet to get this item while everyone in my guild and friends have it. I’ve looted all three chests every single time and no drop. I was convinced maybe something was bugged in my account, I emailed support and they basically said tough luck that they’ll not help me with it. Maybe I am just bitter about it, I’m not sure. It’s fairly annoying I’ve got my 100 Crystalline Ingots, just waiting so I can do my heart adventures. It doesn’t seem like it will ever drop for me.

-End Rant

I’m actually curious to know the actual drop rate at this point, considering how many people don’t have it yet.

I wonder, also, if the drop rate is better if the chests are opened during the Twisted Castle, before it’s completed. When I got mine, it was during the Twisted Castle event before it ended.

Same here, emailed support to see if they could help, told me to get lost.

I usually grab that first easy to access one, and have yet to get it. I’ve stayed alive through the entire thing everytime. I guess it’s just RNG. I get it, fine RNG all you want, but RNG + Time gate? Not cool at all.

Aewyn Starfall.9406:

Same here, emailed support to see if they could help, told me to get lost.

Not suprising. Having bad luck with RNG is not a job for the support.
Are you looting all 4 chests per week (1 from rabkittenallenge and 3 from maze)?

4 weeks of being dry f$@*ed… By the time they fix this in a couple weeks we’ll already have finally gotten it 8 weeks after most everyone else.

Keep at it, my alt account finally got it on the 4th week.

Finally got it on 5th week…what can I say…I’m happy, however it was really frustrating to wait more than a month to complete a collection for just one item…oh well I hope they’ll do something for those who still need it, good luck guys

5th week. Opened all chests every time. No drop. All other members of my raid group have got theirs.

I’m having flashbacks to other badly designed MMOs where you needed a RNG drop from a boss with weekly lockout timers before you could progress to the next tier of dungeons/raids.

Going to go ahead and suggest they change this to just bringing x number of ecto’s and bloodstone dust to combine in a fountain… simple solution and removes RNG.

Oh look, 2 weeks later and I’m back still with not ecto…..6 week is too kittening long to wait for this kitten. I don’t care if this gets taken down for cursing because this is just ridiculous at this point, honestly what is this crap…

I honestly don’t think this is an issue. Took me a month to get mine, and you know what? I’m okay with that. I don’t need everything handed to me right away, like basically every other part of the collections were. This collection is simply intended to prove that you’ve played raids ‘sufficiently’ to get all of the pieces, and in no way reflects upon your skill as a player. Just like in Spirit Vale where I went months without getting my Ectoplasmic Residue, I have no issue with the Bloodstone-Infused Ectoplasm’s RNG.

Just give it time, be persistent, and don’t be so anxious.

It’s not a huge deal necessarily, however – I think it’s worth talking about because I would never want a situation like this again. Even if I swallow my frustration, accept that its just a set of ascended armor and none of the skins are that great and and and…What is gained from it being RNG? Like really, what is good about it? What’s the value in making people wait an arbitrary number of weeks for the reward they’ve already basically earned?

I just don’t think “I didn’t let it bother me, it’s no big deal” is a very compelling argument for not just making the drop chance guaranteed, or making it purchasable with magnatite shards, or something. There’s plenty of RNG in raid rewards already. If Anet doesn’t want to take the time to change it because its a relatively minor issue then that’s one thing, but if the criticism makes them think more carefully when making future collections, then I’d still count that as a win.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I honestly don’t think this is an issue.

It’s really easy for people who are RNG lucky to make that claim. Instead of just saying it’s not a problem because you’ve gotten yours, can you actually give a reason as to how it benefits raids or the game to make this RNG drop? How does it make the content more engaging?

If the point was to demonstrate sufficient mastery of an encounter, there’s much better ways do that. Had to beat Gorseval 5 times for the spirit weave, no RNG involved there.

The only thing the current implementation does is make this extremely frustrating for those of us in RNG outliar hell.

Tamasan.6457:

It’s really easy for people who are RNG lucky to make that claim. Instead of just saying it’s not a problem because you’ve gotten yours, can you actually give a reason as to how it benefits raids or the game to make this RNG drop? How does it make the content more engaging?

It took me a month to get it, how is that RNG lucky? Anyway, it benefits raids by adding longevity to the content. If you want the envoy armor, you’re going to do raids enough times until you get it. RNG may not always be satisfying, but it’s done for exactly this reason and it works.

Rising Dusk.2408:

It took me a month to get it, how is that RNG lucky? Anyway, it benefits raids by adding longevity to the content. If you want the envoy armor, you’re going to do raids enough times until you get it. RNG may not always be satisfying, but it’s done for exactly this reason and it works.

You are certainly luckier than I am.

Thank you for saying that RNG is unsatisfying. That is the entire point. It is deeply unsatisfying. Pure RNG drops are terrible at handling outliars – those of us stuck at the bad end of the bell curve. I could do Twisted Castle 10 more times and have no guarantee of getting it. While RNG drops are “fair” in that they treat everyone the same, they are fundamentally unfair in that they reward those who are lucky better or faster than those who aren’t lucky.

The raid team has done an excellent job. All 3 wings are engaging content. Especially wing 3. I’m still doing all the wings every week – not because I “need” to, but because they are fun and challenging. There is no need to resort to unsatisfying RNG drops that are required to advance collections to keep the target audience coming back.

Tamasan.6457:

The raid team has done an excellent job. All 3 wings are engaging content. Especially wing 3. I’m still doing all the wings every week – not because I “need” to, but because they are fun and challenging. There is no need to resort to unsatisfying RNG drops that are required to advance collections to keep the target audience coming back.

If your first point—that you raid because you enjoy it—is true, then you haven’t anything to worry about! You’ll get it eventually; there’s no rush. Don’t obsess over having the shiny now and you’ll enjoy it even more in the end!

Rising Dusk.2408:

Tamasan.6457:

The raid team has done an excellent job. All 3 wings are engaging content. Especially wing 3. I’m still doing all the wings every week – not because I “need” to, but because they are fun and challenging. There is no need to resort to unsatisfying RNG drops that are required to advance collections to keep the target audience coming back.

If your first point—that you raid because you enjoy it—is true, then you haven’t anything to worry about! You’ll get it eventually; there’s no rush. Don’t obsess over having the shiny now and you’ll enjoy it even more in the end!

Doesn’t change that the droprate is still far too low.
Compare it to ectoplasmic residue, that RNG was fine, got 3 some weeks, some none, but I usually got at least 1 every other week, so I could look forward to having it a few weeks later.
The droprate of the Ectoplasm is horrible, unless you are really really lucky and this is very bad design in the first place.
Same goes for the precursors pre-HoT, i know people (inlcuding me btw) that never dropped a single precursor in almost 4 years playing the game.

So while some lucky people are already done with the 2nd collection at some point in time, there is a realistic chance that others are stuck on the 1st collection because of 1 single badly designed part of a otherwise good collection.

Honestly this game needs more RNG.

Too much stuff is handed out on a silver platter. Nothing feels hard to get anymore. I personally love the feeling when you finally get that rare drop you need, and I wish there were more areas in this game that could provide it.

Chaos.5072:

Honestly this game needs more RNG.

Too much stuff is handed out on a silver platter. Nothing feels hard to get anymore. I personally love the feeling when you finally get that rare drop you need, and I wish there were more areas in this game that could provide it.

I have to partly agree, but really only partly.
Things like having a chance on an exclusive item for every f.e. dungeon/fractal/ like we have it in raids now or like dungeons were in GW1.
I absolutely loved doing SoOSc for my Bone Dragon Staff, or do Slaver’s Exile over and over for the voltaic spear, and it took me a very long time for the latter.
Nice (looking) rewards for specific content, without the ability to buy it with tokens, yes i’d actually like it

If you talk about more RNG for random drops you need for collections, then absolutely not, there is almost no worse design than put RNG into something where you work for a very distinct goal in the first place.

Rising Dusk.2408:

If your first point—that you raid because you enjoy it—is true, then you haven’t anything to worry about! You’ll get it eventually; there’s no rush. Don’t obsess over having the shiny now and you’ll enjoy it even more in the end!

Don’t be condescending. This isn’t only about me. There’s a dozen other people in this thread with terrible luck. Whether I personally am lucky and get a drop on my first attempt, or it takes 6, or 10, or 20 times to get it changes nothing for them. It is still a terrible system that detracts from the enjoyment of the experience for everyone that is unlucky.

If you want a serious conversation about the merits of RNG based loot systems then you need to learn some math. The terms you’re looking for are probability of repeated trials and binomial distribution.

I hope they will change the system soon.

Tamasan.6457:

Don’t be condescending. This isn’t only about me. There’s a dozen other people in this thread with terrible luck. Whether I personally am lucky and get a drop on my first attempt, or it takes 6, or 10, or 20 times to get it changes nothing for them. It is still a terrible system that detracts from the enjoyment of the experience for everyone that is unlucky.

If you want a serious conversation about the merits of RNG based loot systems then you need to learn some math. The terms you’re looking for are probability of repeated trials and binomial distribution.

I’m really shocked that you’re taking such a negative turn to my words. I’m not being condescending, I’m being positive. I missed out on it for a while and it never bothered me at all because the drop rate is high enough (According to an ANet developer, the drop rate is high, though obviously it’s not guaranteed) and I get 3 chances a week. I knew I’d get it eventually. After 4 weeks I got it, yay me. I’m sorry that you haven’t yet (really). They wanted to add to the longevity of the content in that way, and despite that some people really struggle to get the item, I think having some RNG in things is okay.

Let’s say you get it after 10 weeks for purposes of the discussion that follows. What if, instead of letting some people get lucky, they made it an item that you needed to get one of every week (guaranteed) and needed 10 of them? Would that feel better (no rng) or worse (heavily time-gated)?

P.S. I have a degree in math and physics, so please be a bit more respectful. Thanks.

I don’t really care if I don’t get it immediately but if I don’t have it by the time the 2nd collection can be finished I’ll be pretty sad.

I didn’t have a problem with the RNG item from wing 1 because the collection needed time to be finished anyways.

I’d rather have a timegate or RNG, but not both at once, that’s just frustrating to deal with.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Let’s say you get it after 10 weeks for purposes of the discussion that follows. What if, instead of letting some people get lucky, they made it an item that you needed to get one of every week (guaranteed) and needed 10 of them? Would that feel better (no rng) or worse (heavily time-gated)?

I’d always choose the time-gate.
Both things are poor design (for a collection that is) but pure RNG is by far the worse evil.

Yes you might get it eventually by playing, but nobody is gonna know when you get it.
Some might be already done with some or even all pieces of legendary armor and others are stuck on the 1st collection.
This is absolutely poor design.
Most raiders i know do raid for the sake of raiding and want to do the collection while enjoying the content, and i heard from alot of them that the kitten pure RNG badness that the extoplasm is, is leaving a sour taste in their mouth.
And i agree with them, it kinda lowers the enjoyment of clearing the wing when you didnt get the item once more for another week.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m really shocked that you’re taking such a negative turn to my words. I’m not being condescending, I’m being positive. I missed out on it for a while and it never bothered me at all because the drop rate is high enough (According to an ANet developer, the drop rate is high, though obviously it’s not guaranteed)

Anet is notoriously bad at both math and coding. Anyone remember the Final Rest debacle? The droprate is obviously not high, so that dev was either lying, wrong because they don’t understand the math necessary to set a proper droprate, or wrong because they bugged it out.

Rising Dusk.2408:

and I get 3 chances a week. I knew I’d get it eventually. After 4 weeks I got it, yay me. I’m sorry that you haven’t yet (really). They wanted to add to the longevity of the content in that way, and despite that some people really struggle to get the item, I think having some RNG in things is okay.

Yeah, there’s ways to give content longevity without needlessly locking something behind a PURE RNG check. RNG in some things is ok, you’re right, but only when used as a positive benefit, never as a gating mechanic.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Let’s say you get it after 10 weeks for purposes of the discussion that follows. What if, instead of letting some people get lucky, they made it an item that you needed to get one of every week (guaranteed) and needed 10 of them? Would that feel better (no rng) or worse (heavily time-gated)?

This is absolutely what they should have done. If they want to extend the longevity of content, then give a deterministic method to work towards that goal. Additionally, they can choose to add a positive RNG bonus where there is a small chance of receiving the finished item from a chest.

In this way the RNG gives a happy surprise to some people while everyone else is able to get it reliably. In the current implementation, RNG gives long-awaited relief to a chosen few, while frustrating and disappointing everyone else.

Fay.2357:

In this way the RNG gives a happy surprise to some people while everyone else is able to get it reliably. In the current implementation, RNG gives long-awaited relief to a chosen few, while frustrating and disappointing everyone else.

That makes sense. I could see how this would be superior. Basically make it take 10 shards of the ecto to form into the full ecto, and you get 1 shard per week from the first chest you open in the Twisted Castle. Then add a 10% or so chance to, instead of giving a shard, just giving the whole ecto. That way people always make progress but might get surprised with something nice early. I agree that would feel a lot better.

Maybe they’ll make that change!

All my guild raid mates got that 1st or 2nd run. I got it from the 2nd chest I opened.

I’m still 0 for 21…. really? 7 weeks of this….. it’s why I don’t play this game now, except on weekly reset.