Bring back gold in dungeons!
No, first dungeon is dtill rewarding as long as you trade your token and salvage. Second liquid gold hurt gold to gem rate way too much. Third dungeon reward you way too much liquid gold for the skill and effort involved which is nearly 0. Actually I think the current liquid gold is still too much.
Some must fight so that all may be free.
No, first dungeon is dtill rewarding as long as you trade your token and salvage. Second liquid gold hurt gold to gem rate way too much. Third dungeon reward you way too much liquid gold for the skill and effort involved which is nearly 0. Actually I think the current liquid gold is still too much.
Gem rate? No it didn’t. Not all dungeon paths are easy mode like cof 1,2, ac 1,3. There are still quite a few which people don’t even do for the most part except maybe once to get dungeonmaster. If anything they could not get rid of the gold reward but instead make the fights more challenging on the easier paths. Or smarter enemy AI to where people can’t just stack behind walls.
Please support what you say with facts and not useless opinions. Your argument is so bad and poorly worded I’m pretty sure you’re trolling.
They should put the rewards back, but also remove the leashes on enemies so it’s like most other MMOs where you can’t just skip through. Alternatively, vanquishing for bonuses.
They don’t actually want people to focus on them however because they’re abandoned. They weren’t worth the resources to develop and any new dungeons would have been more like fractals. Nerfing the rewards was to account for speed runs and future exploits, which will likely go unfixed.
They should put the rewards back, but also remove the leashes on enemies so it’s like most other MMOs where you can’t just skip through. Alternatively, vanquishing for bonuses.
They don’t actually want people to focus on them however because they’re abandoned. They weren’t worth the resources to develop and any new dungeons would have been more like fractals. Nerfing the rewards was to account for speed runs and future exploits, which will likely go unfixed.
Agreed with the leash comment. Would also be cool if more trash drops more/better loot so it would be worth killing everything instead of just running past them. If they were abandoned they could have did what they did with the dailies, collections and other things that made stuff like jumping puzzles suddenly worth doing again. As far as speed runs go they fixed that by limiting the big reward to 1 run per day per path. If someone really wants to run every dungeon path per day and make a lot of gold I’m honestly ok with that b/c that’s a lot of time/work. And the getting rid of the leash on bosses and/or trash would definitely slow down/stop speed runs that focus on skipping them.
ps: logically you don’t need to develop resources to keep a system that’s in place the same. Even more so if they were mostly “abandoned” then why not just leave them alone? Why take rewards away from something people don’t do? Obviously some people do, do it b/c they are asking how to make gold now on the forums.
ps2: I would be cool with new dungeons… if they made any :P lol.
(edited by Chrono.6928)
elo guys. the dungeons was fine for three years, why should it would have changed at all.
A solution that would still stick to their idea to reduce liquid rewards could look something like this:
- increase or even better completely remove the daily limit on dungeon rewards
- add new stuff to the dungeon shops and remove the account bound part
- add new recipes to craft trinkets or other things
It would allow players to increase their gold gain without actually flooding the market with “new” gold. Selling Nightmare Coils is a good example. They go for 13g or so right now.
Of course, it would make people play dungeons again… which we know ArenaNet doesn’t want. We should just let it go at this point.
Preparing multiple characters for raids took up a huge amount of my gold. Actually thinking about dropping some $$$ convert into even more gold now. Something I would have never considered before HoT.
Makes me feel like they won.
Not going to happen.
The games economy is currently rebalancing itsself from the massive amounts of goldloot from dungeons. No reason to bring back the liquid gold rewards.
Now if you were to ask for them to remove the daily token limit for example in an attempt to increase rewards, I’d completely agree.
What increased token rewards do:
- allow for a similar speed in completeing the collections in PvE vs spvp
- increase in materials (tokens turn to items, items turn to materials thanks to crafting) which in turn would mean more trade via the TP which again would work against high prices on certain materials (especially ectos)
- incentivise more dungeon running without increasing direct gold loot rewards
Food for thought:
The ingame economy is currently in slight deflation mode on everything except high demand items (mostly everything conected to precursors and ascended items). What happens to the value of items if you ramp up the inflation? Exactly. If you think prices for crafting materials are bad now, imagine what further inflation will do.
THIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSS!!!!!
toxic since 2012
A solution that would still stick to their idea to reduce liquid rewards could look something like this:
- increase or even better completely remove the daily limit on dungeon rewards
No, if people do that they’ll always run same run over and over and over again for that huge XP bonus (cough*acpath3*cough) or they will drop the XP/token bonus to a couple skittles.
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Which part of direct gold rewards causing inflation do people not understand?
Arenanet don’t want high amounts of gold to enter the game. Also all this would lead to, ocne again, is a small fraction of the playerbase speedclearing the dungeons while the rest are forced into long dungeon runs.
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Which part of direct gold rewards causing inflation do people not understand?
Arenanet don’t want high amounts of gold to enter the game. Also all this would lead to, ocne again, is a small fraction of the playerbase speedclearing the dungeons while the rest are forced into long dungeon runs.
Then why are they increasing liquid rewards from fractals? They don’t wanna add gold to dungeons because they don’t want ppl to play them. That’s the only reason, not this “economy” bs excuse.
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Which part of direct gold rewards causing inflation do people not understand?
Arenanet don’t want high amounts of gold to enter the game. Also all this would lead to, ocne again, is a small fraction of the playerbase speedclearing the dungeons while the rest are forced into long dungeon runs.
Dungeon gold was removed and was stated to have been put into fractals which it wasn’t. I prefer gold from dungeons over silverwastes farming. Pre HoT I made more gold (not mats) in core GW2. The game is less rewarding since expansion due to this change.
I prefer gold in excess to gold in low supply, get it?
Buy To Play Guild Wars 2 2012-2015 – RIP
Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
PugLife SoloQ
Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
PugLife SoloQ
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Which part of direct gold rewards causing inflation do people not understand?
Arenanet don’t want high amounts of gold to enter the game. Also all this would lead to, ocne again, is a small fraction of the playerbase speedclearing the dungeons while the rest are forced into long dungeon runs.
Then why are they increasing liquid rewards from fractals? They don’t wanna add gold to dungeons because they don’t want ppl to play them. That’s the only reason, not this “economy” bs excuse.
They’re putting gold back into the game because people are unhappy and unhappy people don’t buy fluff with gems. I’m not disagreeing with you at all but this new Anet only make changes that boost gem sales and that’s sad.
Buy To Play Guild Wars 2 2012-2015 – RIP
Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
PugLife SoloQ
Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
PugLife SoloQ
This will fall on deaf ears, they will never go back on there plans now, dungeons are done, id expect to see more and more removed from them over the coming months, the problem here is they removed the rewards but didn’t actually put them anywhere else,
They are pushing ahead with raids/fractals to replace dungeons, end of story, sadly the only people this will hurt in the long run are people who want dungeon master or a certain armor/ gift from that dungeon for a legendary, as in the next 2 or 3 months no one will be running any of the dungeons, and new players may find it fairly difficult to get what they need, unless they join a guild whom they can ask.
This will fall on deaf ears, they will never go back on there plans now, dungeons are done, id expect to see more and more removed from them over the coming months, the problem here is they removed the rewards but didn’t actually put them anywhere else,
They are pushing ahead with raids/fractals to replace dungeons, end of story, sadly the only people this will hurt in the long run are people who want dungeon master or a certain armor/ gift from that dungeon for a legendary, as in the next 2 or 3 months no one will be running any of the dungeons, and new players may find it fairly difficult to get what they need, unless they join a guild whom they can ask.
Exactly right in my opinion. They tried to test the levels of scarcity players were willing to accept. I’m not having it and good luck to Anet un – kittening their work.
Buy To Play Guild Wars 2 2012-2015 – RIP
Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
PugLife SoloQ
Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
PugLife SoloQ
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Which part of direct gold rewards causing inflation do people not understand?
Arenanet don’t want high amounts of gold to enter the game. Also all this would lead to, ocne again, is a small fraction of the playerbase speedclearing the dungeons while the rest are forced into long dungeon runs.
You keep using inflation for justification for having a product that has no real attraction value and you’ll notice that the only thing being deflated is the player base.
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Which part of direct gold rewards causing inflation do people not understand?
Arenanet don’t want high amounts of gold to enter the game. Also all this would lead to, ocne again, is a small fraction of the playerbase speedclearing the dungeons while the rest are forced into long dungeon runs.
You keep using inflation for justification for having a product that has no real attraction value and you’ll notice that the only thing being deflated is the player base.
I still haven’t heard any counter argument to inflation.
If players get more gold across the board, inflation will make prices rise, and no one will be better off.
Are they disadvantaging dungeons? Sure, because they want to shift to fractals.
Have they increased fractal rewards even though they stated they would (direct gold and drops)? No. This has to be corrected.
If you want dungeons buffed, the most sensible way is to think of rewards that are NOT tied to liquid (direct) gold rewards and asking for those. Hence my suggestion to make them more appealing for the collection achievement while at the same time providing more materials for the TP (all via higher token rewards). The one thing most of us can expect, is arenanet not to give gold back to dungeons. The content is dead. If you think they’ll let people speedrun dungeons for gold rewards again, you are deluding yourself.
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Which part of direct gold rewards causing inflation do people not understand?
Arenanet don’t want high amounts of gold to enter the game. Also all this would lead to, ocne again, is a small fraction of the playerbase speedclearing the dungeons while the rest are forced into long dungeon runs.
You keep using inflation for justification for having a product that has no real attraction value and you’ll notice that the only thing being deflated is the player base.
I still haven’t heard any counter argument to inflation.
If players get more gold across the board, inflation will make prices rise, and no one will be better off.
Are they disadvantaging dungeons? Sure, because they want to shift to fractals.
Have they increased fractal rewards even though they stated they would (direct gold and drops)? No. This has to be corrected.
If you want dungeons buffed, the most sensible way is to think of rewards that are NOT tied to liquid (direct) gold rewards and asking for those. Hence my suggestion to make them more appealing for the collection achievement while at the same time providing more materials for the TP (all via higher token rewards). The one thing most of us can expect, is arenanet not to give gold back to dungeons. The content is dead. If you think they’ll let people speedrun dungeons for gold rewards again, you are deluding yourself.
How? How is it inflation? Why? Just on the basis of Anet saying so?
Auctions are utterly anonymous so you never see who is selling what, in how many lots, and for how much. This leaves Anet free to keep commodities artificially high or low at the base depending on how much they want to manipulate scarcity to influence pricing.
The same carries for the currencies themselves. You never see how many are selling gems or exchanging gold for gems. Anet controls the exchange rate based on… Oh right. Nobody knows. So how is it that you or any of the other ‘economic experts’ are able to claim inflation or deflation either way?
Your arguments make sense, logically -in the same fashion as saying that stepping off of a ship deck and into the waves of a turbulent sea when you don’t know how to swim is potentially life threatening. They hold a certain sort of truth in practicality. But that’s as far as they go. After that you’re all using logic, hitting people over the head by pedantically explaining the underpinnings of economics to try and uphold what are essentially faith based arguments in which you ‘believe’ that it’s inflation because it could be x, x, and y -‘after all John Smith said so.’ This, due to the lack of transparency which Anet have intentionally built the system on. Save your breath.
Until we have player account names beside every entry for scrap of every commodity available for purchase on the BLTP, for every bit of in game gold being sold, and until every gold exchange is followed up by an in game mail receipt to the player -seeing as how actual moneys are enterring this economy from outside and making gems/gold from ‘thin air’-
Until those happen then any assertions Anet makes are to be taken with a heavy chunk of salt tempered with the knowledge that of all the probabilities being discussed- the most probable is that they are fabricating their datas.
As was said above they don’t want players in dungeons. The economy is a convenient, if flimsy, scapegoat.
Old raw gold rewards would be nice, but dungeons are still rewarding.
How? How is it inflation? Why? Just on the basis of Anet saying so?
The term “inflation” originally referred to increases in the amount of money in circulation,29 and some economists still use the word in this way. However, most economists today use the term “inflation” to refer to a rise in the price level. An increase in the money supply may be called monetary inflation, to distinguish it from rising prices, which may also for clarity be called “price inflation”.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
Increasing the gold gained via dungeons causes straight up monetary inflation. No need to be a rocket scientist to understand this.
Selling things on the tradin post or buying gems, causes no such inflation since the gold you gain has been generated by another player. On the contrary, the taxation here actually reduces the total amount of gold ingame.
Until we have player account names beside every entry for scrap of every commodity available for purchase on the BLTP, for every bit of in game gold being sold, and until every gold exchange is followed up by an in game mail receipt to the player -seeing as how actual moneys are enterring this economy from outside and making gems/gold from ‘thin air’-
Good news, for most of this I can tell you straigth off the bat that they ahve nothing to do with inflation. Unless arenanet put up ghost items, which is highly unlikely since they can just alter drop rates. But hey, maybe they do.
Second, you can be assured, arenanet has absolut 100% correct values on how much money enters the economy and via which source and how much exits via gold sinks. They have ALL the data and access to even more.
You could argue that the gold from dungeons would be insignificant compared to other gold generation, which no one could argue against except arenanet since all we can do is speculate. But going by the market reaction and the specific targeting of gold rewards, again we can deduce that dungeon gold was significant.
Which leads me back to my original point, increasing gold rewards would cause monetary inflation and very likely increase prices accross the board and no one would be better off.
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Which part of direct gold rewards causing inflation do people not understand?
Arenanet don’t want high amounts of gold to enter the game. Also all this would lead to, ocne again, is a small fraction of the playerbase speedclearing the dungeons while the rest are forced into long dungeon runs.
You keep using inflation for justification for having a product that has no real attraction value and you’ll notice that the only thing being deflated is the player base.
I still haven’t heard any counter argument to inflation.
If players get more gold across the board, inflation will make prices rise, and no one will be better off.
Are they disadvantaging dungeons? Sure, because they want to shift to fractals.
Have they increased fractal rewards even though they stated they would (direct gold and drops)? No. This has to be corrected.
If you want dungeons buffed, the most sensible way is to think of rewards that are NOT tied to liquid (direct) gold rewards and asking for those. Hence my suggestion to make them more appealing for the collection achievement while at the same time providing more materials for the TP (all via higher token rewards). The one thing most of us can expect, is arenanet not to give gold back to dungeons. The content is dead. If you think they’ll let people speedrun dungeons for gold rewards again, you are deluding yourself.
You haven’t heard a counter-argument ?
Do you forums ? That enough is the counter argument.
While what they have done is promote a “healthier” economy all they have done is annoy players by shifting the gameplay from things they enjoy to facets they don’t. That doesn’t solve or deflate the economy. It causes an exodus of players which only distorts any real shifts that could be healthy for the economy as a whole.
As i stated, at some point virtual gold be kitten ed. If people don’t play the game because it’s become a product they don’t enjoy due to forced economic policies, then ANET doesn’t get paid. That is the bottom line here. Player happiness will ultimately drive the economy much like it does in the real world. When people have excess money to spend they are more likely to do so, when they don’t they become frugal and are less likely to give away what little excess they have on a product they do not like or support (unless there is some outstanding reason, medical, lack of choice etc…).
How? How is it inflation? Why? Just on the basis of Anet saying so?
The term “inflation” originally referred to increases in the amount of money in circulation,29 and some economists still use the word in this way. However, most economists today use the term “inflation” to refer to a rise in the price level. An increase in the money supply may be called monetary inflation, to distinguish it from rising prices, which may also for clarity be called “price inflation”.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
Increasing the gold gained via dungeons causes straight up monetary inflation. No need to be a rocket scientist to understand this.
Selling things on the tradin post or buying gems, causes no such inflation since the gold you gain has been generated by another player. On the contrary, the taxation here actually reduces the total amount of gold ingame.
Until we have player account names beside every entry for scrap of every commodity available for purchase on the BLTP, for every bit of in game gold being sold, and until every gold exchange is followed up by an in game mail receipt to the player -seeing as how actual moneys are enterring this economy from outside and making gems/gold from ‘thin air’-
Good news, for most of this I can tell you straigth off the bat that they ahve nothing to do with inflation. Unless arenanet put up ghost items, which is highly unlikely since they can just alter drop rates. But hey, maybe they do.
Second, you can be assured, arenanet has absolut 100% correct values on how much money enters the economy and via which source and how much exits via gold sinks. They have ALL the data and access to even more.
You could argue that the gold from dungeons would be insignificant compared to other gold generation, which no one could argue against except arenanet since all we can do is speculate. But going by the market reaction and the specific targeting of gold rewards, again we can deduce that dungeon gold was significant.
Which leads me back to my original point, increasing gold rewards would cause monetary inflation and very likely increase prices accross the board and no one would be better off.
See? There you are, being pedantic, making my points for me… again. Yes, perceived value, supply and demand – blah blah blah. The economy you mention, the market, all are completely within Anet’s power to manipulate without a bit of transparency- even the alleged reaction of the market you mention.
Any deduction you’re making is faulty. Any reaction shown is faulty. There is no paper trail. There is no causality. Nothing other than Anet’s say-so.
We could just as easily deduce or infer that the reaction and the shift people are perceiving is Anet cooking the books.
I’m coming from a position of, "We have none of the facts, but what we are being fed.’ I want to know that I’m right or wrong -there’s no shame in either- but I want something more than, ‘Cause we say so.’ to proove it.
You and others of the same stripe are arguing from a position of, ‘Everything Anet’s saying about inflation in the fake, non-trasparent economy they manage must be true because we should infer from the datas presented by the trading post(datas which might have been manipulated to support Anet’s assertions) that Anet’s assertions must be true.’
Okay…
What we’re come back to with the inflation argument is which gold out of thin air is bad?
Does Anet want all gold out of thin air gone? Do they only want gold from thin air gone from dungeons? Is it gold from thin air from fractals? From raids?
They couldn’t possibly want the gold out of thin air that is actual moneys converted to gems – then converted to gold- gone, could they? But in the end it’s all gold created out of thin air. And in the end they’re being anything but forthcoming about it.
What are they transparent about? Well, if we’re talking about obvious things which drive the prices of commodities higher they’ve certainly done nothing to lower their take of gold from trading post exchanges. If you’re buying gems and converting to gold then that’s money right out of your pocket for absolutely nothing -cause reasons.
But back to, ‘out of thin air.’ It’s a bit insulting to players that the gold from dungeons – gold come from participating in the contents provided is dubbed, ‘gold out of thin air,’ no? Out of thin air, as though effort and time spent count for nothing. As though to imply that the reward for victory is somehow actually… charity?
There has to be a give and take. There has to be something to show for time spent. Time is a currency we all spend here, but if we spend time in game, dungeons specifically, and come away with less and less due to an arbitrary decision to incentivise or disincentivise certain contents then what Anet’s saying to one segment of the player base is, ‘Your time is worth less than this other segment’s time.’
Hello?
For those who once played dungeons not only for fun, but as a way of making ends meet(no, not the flyers who spent the majority of a day doing every single path once) in game – they feel they’re getting it taken out of them coming and going- and they are.
You don’t need a doctorate in economics to know your wallet’s lighter, your backside hurts, and you’re walking funny all of a sudden. Nor do you need one to know that such a model -heavy on cost light on content- isn’t sustainable.
There’s nothing wrong with a healthy amount of greed to keep the wheels turning. There is overhead for server upkeep and bandwidth hosting packages. That’s what box/and later on gem sales were intended for.
There’s everything wrong, however, with the recent round of economic changes. Changes which are not only greedy, but shortsighted and self-destructive as well. How long is the game going to be supported when those dissatisfied with being marginalised either quit, or worse -worse for Anet’s bottom line- continue playing, eating bandwidth but in turn quit purchasing gems to support that overhead?
The whales alone won’t keep this game running.
(edited by Iozeph.5617)
See? There you are, being pedantic, making my points for me… again. Yes, perceived value, supply and demand – blah blah blah. The economy you mention, the market, all are completely within Anet’s power to manipulate without a bit of transparency- even the alleged reaction of the market you mention.
This has nothing to do with supply and demand, or perceived value or any type of manipulation. It’s plain to see if you know where to look. I’m not making any points for you, you just make no sense in this disscussion. Instead of giving proper counter arguments you go on wild blabing sprees which only demonstrate further that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Any deduction you’re making is faulty. Any reaction shown is faulty. There is no paper trail. There is no causality. Nothing other than Anet’s say-so.
We could just as easily deduce or infer that the reaction and the shift people are perceiving is Anet cooking the books.
I’m coming from a position of, "We have none of the facts, but what we are being fed.’ I want to know that I’m right or wrong -there’s no shame in either- but I want something more than, ‘Cause we say so.’ to proove it.
True, we could go down the road of “arenanet is evil and a mastermind behind everything”.
Or, we could use the knowledge we have of economics and human behavior and try to make sense of what is happening in the current markets (gem exchange and trading post).
For example, gems are at an all time low for gold buy. This can be attributed to one of the following:
A.) more people convert gems to gold -> thus depleting the gold exchange and increasing the gem exchange.
This is likely given the current monetary deflation.
B.) Less people buy gems with gold. This could be attributed to no interesting items on the gem exchange (unlikely with the amount of gem exchange exlusives and hardcore pushing of the gem store recently by arenanet). Or simply because people value their gold more and are less willing to spend as much on gems (which again would benefit the idea of deflation or slower inflation happening).
Finally we can speculate that if the gold from dungeons were insignificant, arenanet might not have bothered with it. Maybe they simply wanted to desincentivise dungeons, which would not explain the huge lack of ligquid gold which could have been added to different sources.
What we’re come back to with the inflation argument is which gold out of thin air is bad?
Does Anet want all gold out of thin air gone? Do they only want gold from thin air gone from dungeons? Is it gold from thin air from fractals? From raids?
They couldn’t possibly want the gold out of thin air that is actual moneys converted to gems – then converted to gold- gone, could they? But in the end it’s all gold created out of thin air. And in the end they’re being anything but forthcoming about it.
Strawman argument. Arenanet doesn’t care if you spend 100 gold on 100 gems or 10 gold. The conversion would adjust. No one is saying they want to remove all currency, simply the amount generated out of thin air.
Why gold out of thin air (aka as direct loot is bad) was explained further up. If you can’t, or don’t want to, understand the difference I can’t help you.
What are they transparent about? Well, if we’re talking about obvious things which drive the prices of commodities higher they’ve certainly done nothing to lower their take of gold from trading post exchanges. If you’re buying gems and converting to gold then that’s money right out of your pocket for absolutely nothing -cause reasons.
I’m begin to think you really don’t understand the difference between the trading post, liquid gold and the gem exchange. I’ll try to give an overview later. They can be as transperent as they want to. They openly stated that they wanted the gold reward from dungeons gone.
But back to, ‘out of thin air.’ It’s a bit insulting to players that the gold from dungeons – gold come from participating in the contents provided is dubbed, ‘gold out of thin air,’ no? Out of thin air, as though effort and time spent count for nothing. As though to imply that the reward for victory is somehow actually… charity?
If you kill a monster and loot copper, silver or gold, it’s as though that gold were magically created. Same goes for any liquid/direct gold reward. Thus it’s created “out of thin air”.
If you pay waypoint costs, trading post fees, gem exchange fees, buy stuff from npc merchants, etc. Your gold is GONE! Poof, instant destroyed.
If you buy/sell something on the trading post, gold between players changes hands (with a 15% fee). No gold is created. The gold earned merely changed its owner. Thus the gold was not created this instant, on the contrary, the fee actually removed gold from the game economy.
This has nothing to do with charity or looking down on player achievements. I never said so, you merely seem to not understand.
There’s nothing wrong with a healthy amount of greed to keep the wheels turning. There is overhead for server upkeep and bandwidth hosting packages. That’s what box/and later on gem sales were intended for.
This has to do with this topic how? Your greed in this example is missplaced, since if more liquid or direct gold enters the game, prices will adjust upwards. Thus you buy less for your gold.
The whales alone won’t keep this game running.
How poetic, but beside the point. You still haven’t given any argument as to why inflation would not occure or why it would be good. Instead you’ve been brambling on showing you have little understanding of what is talked about.
As I said, I’m not against increasing dungeon rewards in forms other than direct gold. If you still can’t understand why, then I;m sorry I can’t help you.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Keep the current rewards as is.
Add in dungeon vanquishing, as a selectable route (alternative to explorable) that makes you clear all paths and mobs before being rewarded would give gold relative to the scale of the dungeon ex AC vanquish 1.5g with a full Arah being around 10g.
Which part of direct gold rewards causing inflation do people not understand?
Arenanet don’t want high amounts of gold to enter the game. Also all this would lead to, ocne again, is a small fraction of the playerbase speedclearing the dungeons while the rest are forced into long dungeon runs.
Anet gutted dungeons to drive people out of them. They didn’t even bother pretending it was inflation they were concerned about, their pet economist literally stated “we want people doing fractals and raids instead of dungeons” outright.
Why not cut the Gold reward entirely or leave it as it is and instead reward players with T5 and T6 fine/rare crafting materials? (explanation further down)
As I see it (and as was explained by Cyninja.2954 above) to much liquid gold entered the game. Just a little calculation already proves this:
//note: Gold reward may vary depending on the dungeon (Arah 4)
g = gold reward at the end of a dungeon
p = number of paths
t = number of players
x = amount of liquid gold generated
g * p * t = x
Lets just take CoF and we get:
1.2 * 3 * 5 = 18g
Thats 18g generated out of thin air for just one group of players. Assuming 100 groups had done this daily we already have
1800g per day or
12600g per week
for just ONE Dungeon! (People farmed CoE, TA, AC and CM, too)
It should be no surprise that liquid gold was unsustainable for the game’s economy. But A-Net could simulntaneously throw the dungeon community a bone without inflating the economy while helping all players in the long run by adding crafting materials as reward.
Why do players accumulate gold? So that they can buy the things they have no interest in farming or which are to hard to come by.
What happens to these things? They are consumed or transformed into more valuable items.
T5 and T6 fine materials (totems, blood, claws, fangs, etc.) and rare materials (cores and lodestones) are required in large quantities for a multitude of things (legendary weapons, rare skins, armor sets, etc.) meaning that demand > supply.
To counter the scarcity of said goods and give the playerbase reasons to play dungeons again I would change it like this:
Ascalonian Catacombs
- Increased dropchance for Pile of Vile/Putrid Essence
- Increased dropchance for Large/Vicious Claw
Caudecus Manor
- Increased dropchance for Charged Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Intricate/Elaborate Totem
Twilight Arbor
- Increased dropchance for Onyx Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Potent/Powerful Venom Sac
Sorrow’s Embrace
- Increased dropchance for Destroyer Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Large/Ancient Bone
Crucible of Eternity
- Increased dropchance for Crystal Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Large/Vicious Fang
Citadel of Flames
- Increased dropchance for Molten Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Large/Armored Scale
Honor of the Waves
- Increased dropchance for Glacial Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Pile of Incandescent/Crystalline Dust
The Ruined City of Arah
- Increased dropchance for Corrupted Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Vial of Potent/Powerful Blood
Final Rewards:
- Small amount of liquid Gold (Similar to current state)
- Dungeon tokens (Same or more as current state)
- 1-3 dungeon specific cores OR 1 dungeon specific Lodestone
- 4-6 T5 fine material OR 2-3 T6 fine material
Using the same calculation as before, just the final rewards would net us:
(group of five, three paths)
15 – 27 cores
15 lodestones (maybe to high)
60-90 T5 fine material
30-45 T6 fine material
//all of the changes/ideas I made are just this. If someone has an even better idea than me I would love to read it.
Opinions?
Why not cut the Gold reward entirely or leave it as it is and instead reward players with T5 and T6 fine/rare crafting materials? (explanation further down)
As I see it (and as was explained by Cyninja.2954 above) to much liquid gold entered the game. Just a little calculation already proves this:
//note: Gold reward may vary depending on the dungeon (Arah 4)
g = gold reward at the end of a dungeon
p = number of paths
t = number of players
x = amount of liquid gold generatedg * p * t = x
Lets just take CoF and we get:
1.2 * 3 * 5 = 18g
Thats 18g generated out of thin air for just one group of players. Assuming 100 groups had done this daily we already have
1800g per day or
12600g per weekfor just ONE Dungeon! (People farmed CoE, TA, AC and CM, too)
It should be no surprise that liquid gold was unsustainable for the game’s economy. But A-Net could simulntaneously throw the dungeon community a bone without inflating the economy while helping all players in the long run by adding crafting materials as reward.
Why do players accumulate gold? So that they can buy the things they have no interest in farming or which are to hard to come by.
What happens to these things? They are consumed or transformed into more valuable items.T5 and T6 fine materials (totems, blood, claws, fangs, etc.) and rare materials (cores and lodestones) are required in large quantities for a multitude of things (legendary weapons, rare skins, armor sets, etc.) meaning that demand > supply.
To counter the scarcity of said goods and give the playerbase reasons to play dungeons again I would change it like this:
Ascalonian Catacombs
- Increased dropchance for Pile of Vile/Putrid Essence
- Increased dropchance for Large/Vicious ClawCaudecus Manor
- Increased dropchance for Charged Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Intricate/Elaborate TotemTwilight Arbor
- Increased dropchance for Onyx Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Potent/Powerful Venom SacSorrow’s Embrace
- Increased dropchance for Destroyer Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Large/Ancient BoneCrucible of Eternity
- Increased dropchance for Crystal Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Large/Vicious FangCitadel of Flames
- Increased dropchance for Molten Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Large/Armored ScaleHonor of the Waves
- Increased dropchance for Glacial Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Pile of Incandescent/Crystalline DustThe Ruined City of Arah
- Increased dropchance for Corrupted Core/Lodestone
- Increased dropchance for Vial of Potent/Powerful BloodFinal Rewards:
- Small amount of liquid Gold (Similar to current state)
- Dungeon tokens (Same or more as current state)
- 1-3 dungeon specific cores OR 1 dungeon specific Lodestone
- 4-6 T5 fine material OR 2-3 T6 fine materialUsing the same calculation as before, just the final rewards would net us:
(group of five, three paths)
15 – 27 cores
15 lodestones (maybe to high)
60-90 T5 fine material
30-45 T6 fine material//all of the changes/ideas I made are just this. If someone has an even better idea than me I would love to read it.
Opinions?
Would also work, though those amounts are way to high. Considering most dungeon paths can be completed in 3-10 minutes by speedrunners.
This would decrease the value of these items dramatically making dungeons again undesirable (though it would allow people to farm these more quickly). I still prefer a token alternative to allow people to better finish collections (which in turn also unlocks ascended trinkets) and allows for the rares+exotics to get forged (for old pres) or salvaged for t5-6 mats and ecto.
Figured that these numbers would be to high while writing the post. It managed to get my point across, though. (Again, just taking my Arah suggestion into account would flood the economy with 30-45 Vials of Powerful Blood per group. Say – again – 100 groups do this dungeon per day and suddenly 3,000 – 4,500 Vials flood the marked each day)
As it stands though, Dungeons need an incentive to become attractive again while being less “toxic” for the ingame economy simultaneously. Either via tradeable rewards (my suggestion) or via increased token reward (your suggestion).
But you get gold, nearly 1g for running one path.
‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong
‘would of been’ —> wrong
But you get gold, nearly 1g for running one path.
Seriously I’ll just leave this here. If you mean Arah then sure but COF is 35s you can stop now.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon
Buy To Play Guild Wars 2 2012-2015 – RIP
Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
PugLife SoloQ
Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
PugLife SoloQ
No, first dungeon is dtill rewarding as long as you trade your token and salvage. Second liquid gold hurt gold to gem rate way too much. Third dungeon reward you way too much liquid gold for the skill and effort involved which is nearly 0. Actually I think the current liquid gold is still too much.
Gem rate? No it didn’t. Not all dungeon paths are easy mode like cof 1,2, ac 1,3. There are still quite a few which people don’t even do for the most part except maybe once to get dungeonmaster. If anything they could not get rid of the gold reward but instead make the fights more challenging on the easier paths. Or smarter enemy AI to where people can’t just stack behind walls.
Please support what you say with facts and not useless opinions. Your argument is so bad and poorly worded I’m pretty sure you’re trolling.
He’s trolling or oblivious, I can’t tell. I can tell you most of his post are over exaggerating or just plain made up crap.
Was liquid gold hurting the economy? NO.
Was liquid gold hurting gem sales? NO.
Does Anet think it was, it definitely looks that way. IMO it is backfiring. I ran dungeons because I enjoyed the content, the gold was just a bonus.
Gem store purchases before HOT = ALOT
Gem store purchases after HOT = 0
Gem store purchases during the holidays = 0
Bring back dungeons.
No, first dungeon is dtill rewarding as long as you trade your token and salvage. Second liquid gold hurt gold to gem rate way too much. Third dungeon reward you way too much liquid gold for the skill and effort involved which is nearly 0. Actually I think the current liquid gold is still too much.
Gem rate? No it didn’t. Not all dungeon paths are easy mode like cof 1,2, ac 1,3. There are still quite a few which people don’t even do for the most part except maybe once to get dungeonmaster. If anything they could not get rid of the gold reward but instead make the fights more challenging on the easier paths. Or smarter enemy AI to where people can’t just stack behind walls.
Please support what you say with facts and not useless opinions. Your argument is so bad and poorly worded I’m pretty sure you’re trolling.
He’s trolling or oblivious, I can’t tell. I can tell you most of his post are over exaggerating or just plain made up crap.
Was liquid gold hurting the economy? NO.
Was liquid gold hurting gem sales? NO.
Does Anet think it was, it definitely looks that way. IMO it is backfiring. I ran dungeons because I enjoyed the content, the gold was just a bonus.Gem store purchases before HOT = ALOT
Gem store purchases after HOT = 0
Gem store purchases during the holidays = 0
Bring back dungeons.
Liquid gold does not hurt the economy? Do you understand how liquid gold works? See for example there are total 10k gold on market and 10k worth of mats, with every tp transaction the amount of total gold on market decreases because of transaction fee. But with dungeon reward aka liquid gold, the total amount of gold on the market increases there for cause gold deflation aka higher gold to gem rate.
Some must fight so that all may be free.
No, first dungeon is dtill rewarding as long as you trade your token and salvage. Second liquid gold hurt gold to gem rate way too much. Third dungeon reward you way too much liquid gold for the skill and effort involved which is nearly 0. Actually I think the current liquid gold is still too much.
Gem rate? No it didn’t. Not all dungeon paths are easy mode like cof 1,2, ac 1,3. There are still quite a few which people don’t even do for the most part except maybe once to get dungeonmaster. If anything they could not get rid of the gold reward but instead make the fights more challenging on the easier paths. Or smarter enemy AI to where people can’t just stack behind walls.
Please support what you say with facts and not useless opinions. Your argument is so bad and poorly worded I’m pretty sure you’re trolling.
He’s trolling or oblivious, I can’t tell. I can tell you most of his post are over exaggerating or just plain made up crap.
Was liquid gold hurting the economy? NO.
Was liquid gold hurting gem sales? NO.
Does Anet think it was, it definitely looks that way. IMO it is backfiring. I ran dungeons because I enjoyed the content, the gold was just a bonus.Gem store purchases before HOT = ALOT
Gem store purchases after HOT = 0
Gem store purchases during the holidays = 0
Bring back dungeons.
Everything you said, is backed by absolutely no data.
Are you still running dungeons? If not, then gold was your motivation. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I’ll just leave this here: http://gw2dungeons.net/Records
Now notice that not all of these are still achieveable due to changes, but times close are definately possible with the powercreep that is the elite specialisations.
Only because YOU can’t do a path in under 5 minutes, doesn’t mean others can’t.
Not gonna happen sadly.
You see this nerf brought joy to oh so many open world heroes. Words can’t describe it, even though you can see their corrosive comments here and there.
No, first dungeon is dtill rewarding as long as you trade your token and salvage. Second liquid gold hurt gold to gem rate way too much. Third dungeon reward you way too much liquid gold for the skill and effort involved which is nearly 0. Actually I think the current liquid gold is still too much.
Gem rate? No it didn’t. Not all dungeon paths are easy mode like cof 1,2, ac 1,3. There are still quite a few which people don’t even do for the most part except maybe once to get dungeonmaster. If anything they could not get rid of the gold reward but instead make the fights more challenging on the easier paths. Or smarter enemy AI to where people can’t just stack behind walls.
Please support what you say with facts and not useless opinions. Your argument is so bad and poorly worded I’m pretty sure you’re trolling.
He’s trolling or oblivious, I can’t tell. I can tell you most of his post are over exaggerating or just plain made up crap.
Was liquid gold hurting the economy? NO.
Was liquid gold hurting gem sales? NO.
Does Anet think it was, it definitely looks that way. IMO it is backfiring. I ran dungeons because I enjoyed the content, the gold was just a bonus.Gem store purchases before HOT = ALOT
Gem store purchases after HOT = 0
Gem store purchases during the holidays = 0
Bring back dungeons.
Everything you said, is backed by absolutely no data.
Are you still running dungeons? If not, then gold was your motivation. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I’ll just leave this here: http://gw2dungeons.net/Records
Now notice that not all of these are still achieveable due to changes, but times close are definately possible with the powercreep that is the elite specialisations.
Only because YOU can’t do a path in under 5 minutes, doesn’t mean others can’t.
Ever heard of dimminishing returns. I dont know anyone running 20 dungeons a day just for gold. I sure there was, but not many. I ran dungeons yes for the gold, also for the collections. Now I’m forced to collect through pvp. liquid gold is a bs arguement. its all about gem sales. God forbid I am able to earn any skins or QOL improvements through playing the game the way I would like too.
Linking speed runs has nothing to do with liquid gold, those guys were doing it for bragging rights.
“Now Everything you said, is backed by absolutely no data.” show me how liquid gold was hurting your economy. isnt converting gems to gold, liquid gold.
No, first dungeon is dtill rewarding as long as you trade your token and salvage. Second liquid gold hurt gold to gem rate way too much. Third dungeon reward you way too much liquid gold for the skill and effort involved which is nearly 0. Actually I think the current liquid gold is still too much.
Gem rate? No it didn’t. Not all dungeon paths are easy mode like cof 1,2, ac 1,3. There are still quite a few which people don’t even do for the most part except maybe once to get dungeonmaster. If anything they could not get rid of the gold reward but instead make the fights more challenging on the easier paths. Or smarter enemy AI to where people can’t just stack behind walls.
Please support what you say with facts and not useless opinions. Your argument is so bad and poorly worded I’m pretty sure you’re trolling.
He’s trolling or oblivious, I can’t tell. I can tell you most of his post are over exaggerating or just plain made up crap.
Was liquid gold hurting the economy? NO.
Was liquid gold hurting gem sales? NO.
Does Anet think it was, it definitely looks that way. IMO it is backfiring. I ran dungeons because I enjoyed the content, the gold was just a bonus.Gem store purchases before HOT = ALOT
Gem store purchases after HOT = 0
Gem store purchases during the holidays = 0
Bring back dungeons.
Everything you said, is backed by absolutely no data.
Are you still running dungeons? If not, then gold was your motivation. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I’ll just leave this here: http://gw2dungeons.net/Records
Now notice that not all of these are still achieveable due to changes, but times close are definately possible with the powercreep that is the elite specialisations.
Only because YOU can’t do a path in under 5 minutes, doesn’t mean others can’t.
Ever heard of dimminishing returns. I dont know anyone running 20 dungeons a day just for gold. I sure there was, but not many. I ran dungeons yes for the gold, also for the collections. Now I’m forced to collect through pvp. liquid gold is a bs arguement. its all about gem sales. God forbid I am able to earn any skins or QOL improvements through playing the game the way I would like too.
Linking speed runs has nothing to do with liquid gold, those guys were doing it for bragging rights.
“Now Everything you said, is backed by absolutely no data.” show me how liquid gold was hurting your economy. isnt converting gems to gold, liquid gold.
How can people be this…
Did you even try to understand what I wrote?
No, converting gems to gold is NOT the same as getting direct gold rewards from dungeons. That gold you convert your gems into comes from a pool of gold. That pool has been filled by players BUYING GEMS with gold.
Same as the pool of gems increases when people buy gems with real life cash and use those to convert to gold.
Here read up: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange
The total amount of gold in the game economy DOES NOT CHANGE (except for the 15% tax both ways which actually reduces the total amount of gold in the game economy).
Linking speedruns was to show that what the poster futher up said is NOT bs. It is possible and I know enough people who without being super duper speedruners had low times on many dungeons.
There were no diminishing returns on people doing dungeon tours. Clearing 5-6 different dungeon paths per hour was not uncommon. There was a reason why the gold gain was considered only slightly behind SW for speedrunenrs. The difference being that this is gold directly injected into the game economy (the gold supply increases) where as going through the TP does not.
Please, for the love of god, at least try to read up on stuff. I’m not going to repeat this point for a 4th time. This is just silly.
Well, all i read was about lower inflation. I don’t see any thing that has become better since the expansion. T6-Mats and some others are cheaper due to droprates not to any other change! Rare items like precursors have the same price or they are more expensive than before, the TP-prices differs here just like usually. So the whole point of “dungeon gold fled the market” is a fairy tale.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
Well, all i read was about lower inflation. I don’t see any thing that has become better since the expansion. T6-Mats and some others are cheaper due to droprates not to any other change! Rare items like precursors have the same price or they are more expensive than before, the TP-prices differs here just like usually. So the whole point of “dungeon gold fled the market” is a fairy tale.
It wasn’t just a fairytale. Gold injections like these do lead to an inflation of the market.
You are right about the general price increase, though. Seems like those still quoting the “to fight inflation” part and even ArenaNet forget about trash drops from events. Most players just vendor those items for new ingame value. They will also not try to fight the inject of gold through gems, obviously.
Harshly reducing the gold rewards from dungeons was just the simplest solution that would adress both of their concerns. One being the inflation of the market and the other one being the popularity of their dungeons.
I am pretty sure they forsaw the negative side effect of said solution and decided that it was acceptable. Talking about some players quitting the game over this.
It wasn’t just a fairytale. Gold injections like these do lead to an inflation of the market.
I call BS. In this special case it was and still is a fairy tale. That has nothing to do with theory.
Harshly reducing the gold rewards from dungeons was just the simplest solution that would adress both of their concerns. One being the inflation of the market and the other one being the popularity of their dungeons.
There would have been way better opportunities to lower inflation. Reducing direct gold rewards from dungeon was not. The whole argument was crap as hell and only to lead players away from dungeons to other content, nothing more.
I am pretty sure they forsaw the negative side effect of said solution and decided that it was acceptable. Talking about some players quitting the game over this.
I am pretty sure they didn’t at least they haven’t thought to the end.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
No, first dungeon is dtill rewarding as long as you trade your token and salvage. Second liquid gold hurt gold to gem rate way too much. Third dungeon reward you way too much liquid gold for the skill and effort involved which is nearly 0. Actually I think the current liquid gold is still too much.
Gem rate? No it didn’t. Not all dungeon paths are easy mode like cof 1,2, ac 1,3. There are still quite a few which people don’t even do for the most part except maybe once to get dungeonmaster. If anything they could not get rid of the gold reward but instead make the fights more challenging on the easier paths. Or smarter enemy AI to where people can’t just stack behind walls.
Please support what you say with facts and not useless opinions. Your argument is so bad and poorly worded I’m pretty sure you’re trolling.
He’s trolling or oblivious, I can’t tell. I can tell you most of his post are over exaggerating or just plain made up crap.
Was liquid gold hurting the economy? NO.
Was liquid gold hurting gem sales? NO.
Does Anet think it was, it definitely looks that way. IMO it is backfiring. I ran dungeons because I enjoyed the content, the gold was just a bonus.Gem store purchases before HOT = ALOT
Gem store purchases after HOT = 0
Gem store purchases during the holidays = 0
Bring back dungeons.
Everything you said, is backed by absolutely no data.
Are you still running dungeons? If not, then gold was your motivation. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I’ll just leave this here: http://gw2dungeons.net/Records
Now notice that not all of these are still achieveable due to changes, but times close are definately possible with the powercreep that is the elite specialisations.
Only because YOU can’t do a path in under 5 minutes, doesn’t mean others can’t.
Ever heard of dimminishing returns. I dont know anyone running 20 dungeons a day just for gold. I sure there was, but not many. I ran dungeons yes for the gold, also for the collections. Now I’m forced to collect through pvp. liquid gold is a bs arguement. its all about gem sales. God forbid I am able to earn any skins or QOL improvements through playing the game the way I would like too.
Linking speed runs has nothing to do with liquid gold, those guys were doing it for bragging rights.
“Now Everything you said, is backed by absolutely no data.” show me how liquid gold was hurting your economy. isnt converting gems to gold, liquid gold.
How can people be this…
Did you even try to understand what I wrote?
No, converting gems to gold is NOT the same as getting direct gold rewards from dungeons. That gold you convert your gems into comes from a pool of gold. That pool has been filled by players BUYING GEMS with gold.
Same as the pool of gems increases when people buy gems with real life cash and use those to convert to gold.
Here read up: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange
The total amount of gold in the game economy DOES NOT CHANGE (except for the 15% tax both ways which actually reduces the total amount of gold in the game economy).
Linking speedruns was to show that what the poster futher up said is NOT bs. It is possible and I know enough people who without being super duper speedruners had low times on many dungeons.
There were no diminishing returns on people doing dungeon tours. Clearing 5-6 different dungeon paths per hour was not uncommon. There was a reason why the gold gain was considered only slightly behind SW for speedrunenrs. The difference being that this is gold directly injected into the game economy (the gold supply increases) where as going through the TP does not.
Please, for the love of god, at least try to read up on stuff. I’m not going to repeat this point for a 4th time. This is just silly.
Be like what?
Not buy your argument about liquid gold. Yeah I dont. So your saying once they nerfed dungeons there is no other way to earn liquid gold. bs. Your comparing apples to oranges. Its obvious you were not running dungeons, Yes diminishing returns existed, run the same path for the seccond time in a day, it was not worth a gold.
So you can say inflation, liquid gold, etc etc. All it has to do with is Anet wants you to open your wallet and buy gold. Thats it.
There would have been way better opportunities to lower inflation. Reducing direct gold rewards from dungeon was not. The whole argument was crap as hell and only to lead players away from dungeons to other content, nothing more.
I’ll bite, tell us, which parts of the game had similar direct gold reward as dungeons?
I’d love to know since I must have missed that gold reward over the course of 3 years.
Remember, DIRECT GOLD REWARD, not gold earned via the TP or such. The game must create the gold you are getting. Just putting this here since some peope seem to have a hard time understanding the concept of monetary inflation versus trade.
Yes diminishing returns existed, run the same path for the seccond time in a day, it was not worth a gold.
I never said diminishing returs did not exist. Again, learn to read. I said there was enough easy very fast dungeons that you could fill up hours worth of them and reap the gold rewards.
For soemone who only ran AC1-3 and CoF1 this could be a suprise though.
So you can say inflation, liquid gold, etc etc. All it has to do with is Anet wants you to open your wallet and buy gold. Thats it.
Yes, the current shift in the ingame economy is taking it’s toll on people who are used to spending gold like crazy and only getting it via dungeons.
Yes, arenanet are shoving people to buy more gems.
I never disagreed with any of that. I even agree dungeons rewards should be buffed and gave examples of what could be done.
I disagree with DIRECT GOLD REWARD getting increased and have explained multiple times why. The only counter arguments so far was:" I don’t believe you." or “There was no inflation happening.”
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Anet gutted dungeons to drive people out of them. They didn’t even bother pretending it was inflation they were concerned about, their pet economist literally stated “we want people doing fractals and raids instead of dungeons” outright.
Absolutely, ANet wanted to remove dungeon incentives. That does not mean they had no other motives.
- Placing the rewards into FotM (which hasn’t happened yet) but gated behind Masteries and into raids was/is a not-so-subtle “Buy HoT!” message.
- Killing the gold award was a simple change in some tables and required very little in terms of staff time to implement.
- They’ve been addressing more than one issue with the same change for years.
- They usually only tell us one of their goals (if they say anything about their motivations), usually giving the one they think will anger the fewest players. What Anet says is never the whole of their thinking.
I’ll bite, tell us, which parts of the game had similar direct gold reward as dungeons?
I’d love to know since I must have missed that gold reward over the course of 3 years.
Remember, DIRECT GOLD REWARD, not gold earned via the TP or such. The game must create the gold you are getting. Just putting this here since some peope seem to have a hard time understanding the concept of monetary inflation versus trade.
I have never meant anything else than direct gold rewards. Run SW and count every single copper you get directly out of the bags + the lump of raw ambrite everybody is selling on the vendor after salvaging. Same with Cursed Shore bags although the direct copper/silver loot isn’t that high.
Then keep in mind, that many more ppl are and were doing this “Press-1-content” than dungeon runners because Anet has always confirmed that the dungeon com belong to a minority of the game. The sum of direct gold is therefore much higher than the dungeon gold which was also reduced on a daily basis.
And: referring to the actual trend, inflation is still growing. We only have a reduction in prices of T6-Mats when many many many other items are more expensive than ever. Ask the poor players who are trying to craft asc armor. ^^
The last argument is driven by the fact that they could have changed item rewards in dungeons like you also mentioned but they didn’t. They fricking didn’t! Even take a closer look on the XP when finishing a dungeon. The whole thing smells like dog’s breath.
The old dungeon rewards were a possibility to keep up the farming pace of thousands of brainless SW-players, nothing else.
I never said diminishing returs did not exist. Again, learn to read. I said there was enough easy very fast dungeons that you could fill up hours worth of them and reap the gold rewards.
Invalid argument. There is enough free direct loot on SW etc. without diminishing returns!
So you can say inflation, liquid gold, etc etc. All it has to do with is Anet wants you to open your wallet and buy gold. Thats it.
He nailed it!
I’m not against direct gold rewards because it has shown that everything was accessible and nobody got behind in acquiring enough gold nor was inflation a big problem. The whole statement in that case was and still is a big joke.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
I have never meant anything else than direct gold rewards. Run SW and count every single copper you get directly out of the bags + the lump of raw ambrite everybody is selling on the vendor after salvaging. Same with Cursed Shore bags although the direct copper/silver loot isn’t that high.
Then keep in mind, that many more ppl are and were doing this “Press-1-content” than dungeon runners because Anet has always confirmed that the dungeon com belong to a minority of the game. The sum of direct gold is therefore much higher than the dungeon gold which was also reduced on a daily basis.
I was expecting these answers and was so hoping you would not use them.
Not because they are valid, but because they show you too haven’t put more thought into more than what happens to your wallet…
So, you bring SW and Cursed Shoreas an examples, mind you just about the only ones that might come close. You ofcorse have factored in the material supply provided via SW and CS to the Trading Post and the gold that flows out of the game along with that right? The gold on taxation of selling those materials.
What about the effect the supply has on prices themselves? More supply, lower prices.
See, dungeons were straight up gold with minimal materials. The ralationship was no where near what SW or CS bring to the game economy. Next example please.
And: referring to the actual trend, inflation is still growing. We only have a reduction in prices of T6-Mats when many many many other items are more expensive than ever. Ask the poor players who are trying to craft asc armor. ^^
Yes, because supply and demand too factor in with prices. Read further up what I said about “you don’t want the current demand price increase get further spiked by more direct gold rewards”. We have a price spike on highg demand items which are most notably requirements for ascended and legendary gear. Maybe take a peak at the rest of the trading post and see what has happened there. Or take a look at the gem-gold exchange rates. All signs of deflation.
The last argument is driven by the fact that they could have changed item rewards in dungeons like you also mentioned but they didn’t. They fricking didn’t! Even take a closer look on the XP when finishing a dungeon. The whole thing smells like dog’s breath.
And i’ve agreed that rewards should get increased, only not via direct gold. For the 5th or 6th time in this thread.
I’m not against direct gold rewards because it has shown that everything was accessible and nobody got behind in acquiring enough gold nor was inflation a big problem. The whole statement in that case was and still is a big joke.
Sure, since you do not believe in inflation or the effect higher gold supply has on prices. I too would be in favor of easy straight into my pocket gold rewards. Unfortunately I don’t think in this case I’d have much fun with them when all the prices adjust accordingly.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
They won’t, according to John Smith, the dungeons were disincentived due to the fact they are no longer supported content and fractals easier to design, plus dungeons became so face roll it was injecting too much gold into the economy. Shifting the rewards to fractals will create a better gold sink as you’ll need the gold to buy the ascended salvage kits. Thus fractals become both a faucet and gold sink in and of themselves something dungeons never were or ever will be.
Plus this will allow them to say their metrics show dungeons really are unpopular and unneeded content.
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
You ofcorse have factored in the material supply provided via SW and CS to the Trading Post and the gold that flows out of the game along with that right? The gold on taxation of selling those materials.
You are not able to read: I don’t talk about materials to trade on the TP. They are not responsible for the inflation, I mentioned that.
I am speaking about opening bags and getting DIRECT COINS + the lump of raw ambrite which is DIRECT GOLD WITHOUT ANY SINK. The materials come on top but they play no role due to TP selling.
You got it now?
These rewards are so high due to the fact that thousands of players playing SW compared to a minority of dungeon runners.
Yes, the incentives were good if u were able to faceroll them. As a frequent dungeon tour player but also pugging player, the difference between faceroll and Pug-faceroll were huge! Still the amount of dungeon gold wasn’t as high as Anet wants to tell us.
Period.
All signs of deflation.
Nope, and you know it or you are writing bs. You are wrong.
Sure, since you do not believe in inflation
Where did I wrote this? I only wrote: Dungeons weren’t responsible for inflation as Anet wants to tell us. Prices were stable as hell and now they are not.
End of discussion for me.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
You ofcorse have factored in the material supply provided via SW and CS to the Trading Post and the gold that flows out of the game along with that right? The gold on taxation of selling those materials.
You are not able to read: I don’t talk about materials to trade on the TP. They are not responsible for the inflation, I mentioned that.
I am speaking about opening bags and getting DIRECT COINS + the lump of raw ambrite which is DIRECT GOLD WITHOUT ANY SINK. The materials come on top but they play no role due to TP selling.
You got it now?
These rewards are so high due to the fact that thousands of players playing SW compared to a minority of dungeon runners.Yes, the incentives were good if u were able to faceroll them. As a frequent dungeon tour player but also pugging player, the difference between faceroll and Pug-faceroll were huge! Still the amount of dungeon gold wasn’t as high as Anet wants to tell us.
Period.
All signs of deflation.
Nope, and you know it or you are writing bs. You are wrong.
Sure, since you do not believe in inflation
Where did I wrote this? I only wrote: Dungeons weren’t responsible for inflation as Anet wants to tell us. Prices were stable as hell and now they are not.
End of discussion for me.
I am able to read:
SW and CS provide:
- direct gold rewards (in form of event rewards and vendor rewards for selling things to NPC vendors)
- massive amounts of materials (which get sold on the TP and increase the avaialable supply)
Dungeons provided:
- direct gold rewards
- very little amounts of materials
See the difference? Please try to follow.
The materials come on top but they play no role due to TP selling.
Right, except for the 15% fee which removes gold from the economy. But who cares about that. Again, try to look at the big picture.
I’d even go as far that. since the materials made up a big chunk of the gold earned via SW/CS, it’s not that far to estiate that the trading post fees reduce the total ingame gold almost as much as the direct gold loot increases it.
If we assume 1/4 of the reward is direct gold, and 3/4 are loot, the gold removed from the game would equal about 11.25 silver removed for every 25 silver injected.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)