Guild Wars 2

Please bring back instance owners. I am tired of advertising my group as “no skipping” or “all champions” or similar and then people skip everything anyway even if you remind them of the description. Before the update I could just leave to punish them with having to start over. I want this option back because I have no other means as enforcing my advertised preferences.

Posts like these are why we can’t have nice things

Sanderinoa.8065:

Posts like these are why we can’t have nice things

What do you mean?
I cant find any good reason to have no instance owners. Its a griefers and kickers paradise to have it like this. And yes I count people who ignore the lfg descriptions as griefers. If you try to kick them you run the risk of getting kicked yourself if there is someone in the group who is on that persons side.
Not to mention your instance will get deleted immediatly now if everyone left it. Very bad if there is server lag and everyone gets a network error.

Malediktus.9250:

Sanderinoa.8065:

Posts like these are why we can’t have nice things

What do you mean?
I cant find any good reason to have no instance owners. Its a griefers and kickers paradise to have it like this. And yes I count people who ignore the lfg descriptions as griefers. If you try to kick them you run the risk of getting kicked yourself if there is someone in the group who is on that persons side.
Not to mention your instance will get deleted immediatly now if everyone left it. Very bad if there is server lag and everyone gets a network error.

I don’t see how this works. It only took one key person to lose connection to lose progress in a dungeon. Everyone losing connection is strictly a subset of that scenario. If your idea of being punitive is to leave the dungeon to kill the instance, then how are you personally any different for not being in the non-owner instance, either kicked or voluntarily?

You didnt loose progress. You had the option to 4 man it or wait until the person is back. It was only a problem if the instance owner tried to switch chars or left the party.
I think its completly fair to punish people if they choose to ignore the description you made for the group. If they dont agree with it they can make their own group. Now I have no ways to take action other than hoping people agree to kick all the people who cant read or deliberately ignore it.
Before I had the option to say do as the group description advertised or I will disband the instance. Completly fair.

What happened? You tried to farm champions in fractals but your group refused to cooperate?

I don’t understand why you guys are giving him kitten for this request. His LFG description was clear, however the players joining didn’t have the common courtesy to read and comply before they joined. The OP should be able to have complete control over his instance, so he can protect himself from players like this.

I agree OP, and I’ll take it even further. Allow parties to have an official leader who has the sole ability to kick/invite at will. This way you can completely protect your instance and make sure all party members are on the same page before continuing.

Take note Anet:

When both “speed runners” and “kill everything” players are on the same side and want party leaders with absolute power, it’s probably time to act.

The reason for my comment is that before this patch, people complained a ton about dungeon ownership. Now that it’s changed, they still get complaints. It’s the same as with the dredge fractal fix, and I can’t imagine it being motivating for ANET to fix anything if it doesn’t reduce the amount of complaining players.

Sanderinoa.8065:

The reason for my comment is that before this patch, people complained a ton about dungeon ownership. Now that it’s changed, they still get complaints. It’s the same as with the dredge fractal fix, and I can’t imagine it being motivating for ANET to fix anything if it doesn’t reduce the amount of complaining players.

If you do a bad job and become unmotivated because of complaints, that’s on you.

They shouldn’t have done just a bad job on the “fix.”

Lord Kuru.3685:

Sanderinoa.8065:

The reason for my comment is that before this patch, people complained a ton about dungeon ownership. Now that it’s changed, they still get complaints. It’s the same as with the dredge fractal fix, and I can’t imagine it being motivating for ANET to fix anything if it doesn’t reduce the amount of complaining players.

If you do a bad job and become unmotivated because of complaints, that’s on you.

They shouldn’t have done just a bad job on the “fix.”

I’m actually quite happy with this, and it’s precisely what was asked for

I disagree.
The past system was bad, the one we have would be better with some tweaks, but is worse than the last in its current state.

Tom Yzf.5872:

I don’t understand why you guys are giving him kitten for this request. His LFG description was clear, however the players joining didn’t have the common courtesy to read and comply before they joined. The OP should be able to have complete control over his instance, so he can protect himself from players like this.

I agree OP, and I’ll take it even further. Allow parties to have an official leader who has the sole ability to kick/invite at will. This way you can completely protect your instance and make sure all party members are on the same page before continuing.

at least one person who agrees

I wrote before the patch that I don’t like the idea of getting rid of instance owner, and I’ll be writing it again.
Why can’t there be an option to have an instance leader or not? Have an option when creating a party if you want to be the instance leader, the ones who don’t want it would leave it out. Then in the description people can see and choose a path that has the one of their liking, the group with a leader could have a star or something next to it. Everyone would win, nobody would be on the mercy of griefers anymore, who the current system just supports.

Btw, I don’t do dungeons anymore without friends or guildies. Max 1 pug allowed

No instance owner is the best thing to ever happen to dungeons, I’m sorry but I 100% disagree with OP. If your in a long and difficult dungeon, and the the pug leader who opened has to leave, the dungeons over. Even if the opener doesn’t leave party and disconnects the instance eventually times out and people are forced to leave. The new system is a god send in my opinion and I hope it never reverts.

I get were op is coming from, but I really would not want the change to happen. Recently started duoing dungeons and have 5 lvl 80’s to swap out to if I’m struggling makes my life alot easier, or even quality of life moments where I need to relog for a mesmer portal.
Maybe if they changed it so you didn’t need a 2nd vote to kick if your party leader? Although that also screams abuse to path sellers

Depths.4051:

No instance owner is the best thing to ever happen to dungeons, I’m sorry but I 100% disagree with OP. If your in a long and difficult dungeon, and the the pug leader who opened has to leave, the dungeons over. Even if the opener doesn’t leave party and disconnects the instance eventually times out and people are forced to leave. The new system is a god send in my opinion and I hope it never reverts.

There are no long and difficult dungeons in this game. Even Arah p4 can be done without skipping/exploiting in a hour or less.

Malediktus.9250:

Depths.4051:

No instance owner is the best thing to ever happen to dungeons, I’m sorry but I 100% disagree with OP. If your in a long and difficult dungeon, and the the pug leader who opened has to leave, the dungeons over. Even if the opener doesn’t leave party and disconnects the instance eventually times out and people are forced to leave. The new system is a god send in my opinion and I hope it never reverts.

There are no long and difficult dungeons in this game. Even Arah p4 can be done without skipping/exploiting in a hour or less.

If you don’t pug, or get a good group while pugging that’s certainly the case. I usually pug with nice people who don’t take dungeon runs too seriously. I avoid parties that ask for zerk gear only, not because I’m not skilled enough for it, but because its all down to a formula. The dungeon goes fast, the ppl aren’t as friendly, and its repetitive. Helping a less experienced group is more fun, although certainly not efficient. The problem comes when the opener is either not as patient, or underestimated the length of the dungeon. An inexperienced aether group can take ages. Ive even had to leave during an instance I opened, I left my PC on, but even so 4 manning a dungeon they aren’t familiar with would be difficult, and they disbanded.

I simply do not agree OP, if you pug there simply is no guarantee the opener is as committed as you unless you open yourself. Ive had too many bad experiences with the previous system in this regard and fail to see your reason as adequate for even wanting it reverted.

I swear everytime I come back to this thread I want to repeat things Ive already said.

Malediktus.9250:

Depths.4051:

No instance owner is the best thing to ever happen to dungeons, I’m sorry but I 100% disagree with OP. If your in a long and difficult dungeon, and the the pug leader who opened has to leave, the dungeons over. Even if the opener doesn’t leave party and disconnects the instance eventually times out and people are forced to leave. The new system is a god send in my opinion and I hope it never reverts.

There are no long and difficult dungeons in this game. Even Arah p4 can be done without skipping/exploiting in a hour or less.

an hour straight of playing a video game isn’t a long time? you must be old.

Crysto.7089:

Malediktus.9250:

Depths.4051:

No instance owner is the best thing to ever happen to dungeons, I’m sorry but I 100% disagree with OP. If your in a long and difficult dungeon, and the the pug leader who opened has to leave, the dungeons over. Even if the opener doesn’t leave party and disconnects the instance eventually times out and people are forced to leave. The new system is a god send in my opinion and I hope it never reverts.

There are no long and difficult dungeons in this game. Even Arah p4 can be done without skipping/exploiting in a hour or less.

an hour straight of playing a video game isn’t a long time? you must be old.

Not really. I remember times when you raided 6+ hours non stop. Good old times.
1h is really not very long.

Well in theory it also mean some elitist jerk can kick you out of your own party and start rulling the place as long as hes not alone even if you made a ‘’casual run we play what we want’’ announcement of the like. Sometime for a guy running casual build the best way to defend itself against meta build abuse was to be the dungeon owner so to prevent some kitten of declaring ‘’muuust speedrun everythiiiing’’. Now in the name of effectiveness you can officialy be kicked out of your own instance the moment some guy in full zerker decrete that everyone must run the meta or be gone. Worse yet no leader also means any 2 man cell team of guildies can kick everyone in the party and replace them with their guildmate at a moment notice if they wishes to all they need is two click and thats that. Griefer paradise? Yes very likely. They should at least require the majority to vote first

I don’t want instance owner back.I prefer either the kick system to be made to 3 or even better to make a working Party leader system.

Ascalon catacombs was a nightmare today. Had to go through 3 groups today until I finnaly had people who did as the group was advertised.

the nightmare to find people with reading comprehension skills continues

I think i allready wrote somewhere something on this topic, other thred but still….

It seems whatever anet does people are not happy. I’m thrilled with no instance owner, it reduces dungeon selling and gives me option to kick someone who might be complete kittenhole but since he started the dungeon nobody can do anything about it. I did and still do pugs quite often, so i know what i’m saying.

During 2 years of often pugging i’ve seen all sort of kicking, from swearing at other players and threats to kick if they don’t do this and that, i think no instance owner is the best thing ever.

People complain because now the question is: …wait…even i started the dungeon now i can’t tell people to f themselves and threaten them to kick if they don’t play as i command? Whoa that means i have to be nice to my group even tho i started it? Even if my royal glorious behind started this dungeon? Well that is not cool anet. Not cool at all.

And to the OP, if you have problem to write a description, type a few extra letters and ask people who join if they read it, then i don’t know what to say. Most people read the info before entering, and even if you have a rebel among your pug team you should not have a problem kicking it from the party.
If you end up being kicked, then it’s probably better, you should save yourself a lot of sanity by not being in that party.

Oxidia.8103:

Most people read the info before entering, and even if you have a rebel among your pug team you should not have a problem kicking it from the party.

I sincerely question this part of your quote. That is wholly against my experiences. A rebel you say? Whenever and I do mean WHENEVER I list “experienced only” I am guaranteed to get 2-3 people who are simply NOT experienced and the fourth typically doesnt read. So I either full on carry them because not only are they typically not experienced but they usually can not read(as evidenced by joining my group)

Your whole post is fully of “sillyness” and full of extremes.

Oxidia.8103:

People complain because now the question is: …wait…even i started the dungeon now i can’t tell people to f themselves and threaten them to kick if they don’t play as i command? Whoa that means i have to be nice to my group even tho i started it? Even if my royal glorious behind started this dungeon? Well that is not cool anet. Not cool at all.

A more correct statement would be When I list my “Level 50+ experienced only pls p2” I cant say “pls switch to lvl50+ char or leave” I simply have to leave.

A more correct statement would be when I list that and people who obviously are not experienced join, lie and say they are experienced, and constantly F up I have to leave because no one accepts my vote kick. Ofcourse its fine for me to lose my progress but not them. G-man FORBID someone other than the person who had the minuscule amount of testosterone in them to actually start their own group actually have to take responsibility.

I actually want to draw in to a specific part of what you wrote

Whoa that means i have to be nice to my group even tho i started it?

Hmm thats odd. I would like for you to explain how the group leader currently has any form of ownership. The use of “My Group” is grossly incorrect. A person who starts a group currently owns nothings and the group (Note not only the starter of the group i.e. 3/5) wholly at the mercy of any random 2 people who decide to hit that little check mark.

But overall dont worry. I know your type. I experienced your type in a run just after reset.
It was a glorious Saturday night and I wanted a nice and fast run put no level requirement only “experienced with path and competent with profession”. Filled up quickly. But I quickly noticed they were running in all the wrong directions. So I asked “experienced?” a few times to no avail.
Then the 5th said (this is your type) “If they arent experienced why dont you teach them instead of being an kitten” Mind you I had only repeated one word “experienced” about 5 times. Then one of the lemmings said " yeah tell us what to do"

Then I explained I spent the last 18 hours of my Saturday doing nothing but teaching newbies this dungeon. I wanted to complete it quickly so I could hop back onto my guardian to continue doing that before I went to bed.

I was then greeted with “lol you spent 18 hours in a dungeon on a saturday? you have no life” and somehow the others of the group suddenly found their keyboards and joined in the derision. but yet "*I* have to leave the instance. Because I had requirements that werent met. Because I was the kitten trying to enforce a standard. Because I was the idiot that actually started the group.

I sometimes wish I wasnt enlightened. I sometimes wish I wasnt blessed by the Holy Trinity of DPS. I wish that I could join groups and NOT GIVE A kittenING kitten ABOUT THE “GROUP” PART. But no. I practically feel sick joining a group looking at its makeup and not switching my build or char to compensate for any potential weaknesses. And “you”……. filth

I think ill stop there as Im starting to write down what I am saying, have a nice day.

I should also like to add. Apparently being a dictator is not encouraged but being a terrorist is.

DON’T LABEL ME “my type” YOU KNO MY NAME NOT MY STORY!!!1

All i’m saying is people need to tone down a little bit of their elite little tushy. And yes your little elite tushy too DonQuack. And yes i just labeled you SHOTS FIRED!!1!

Oxidia.8103:

DON’T LABEL ME “my type” YOU KNO MY NAME NOT MY STORY!!!1

All i’m saying is people need to tone down a little bit of their elite little tushy. And yes your little elite tushy too DonQuack. And yes i just labeled you SHOTS FIRED!!1!

I don’t see any elitism just the usual case of a pug expecting to be carried and being silent about any experience until the very last moment or after a couple deaths. I don’t see your issue with dungeon sellers, you either join them or not even though I have only seen one dungeon seller out of arah. Hell they were a big part of guild wars 1

It seems people gets confused by some terms…

Party leader: Someone who starts the party, has rights over kick and invite. This is concept and design.

Instance Owner: Who entered the dungeon first, instance created was linked to him, people would’ve joined “his” instance (probably instance ID was stored in that character for the time being). Instance recycled if the owner leaves party (link with the other members of the group). This is ingame mechanic.

What its been asked here is (or should be) a Party Leader and not an Instance Owner.

Hope this brings some light to some confused players.

My apologies on the rant meh lack of sleep and frustration with people who believe the people who start groups are nobodies and dont count.

Imo Party lead should always also be instance lead.

I believe it may have been Jerus who suggested the option of having party lead with the option of being instance owner (with power to transfer and afk timer) and having a party lead with no instance “owner” like it is now. And having that variable show up on the lfg. so joiners can choose if the are willing to take the risk.

pandas.9450:

I don’t see your issue with dungeon sellers

It is clearly just the usual reasons for hating dungeon sellers and other undermanned dungeon parties. It is jealousy, pure and simple jealousy. People having fun in a way that you do not find fun, or that you are barred from partaking in due to skill level or some such?.. time to whine, complain and try to demonize them for not having the sort of fun that you approve of. That is all it ever is with this type.

I find it funny that there were more people complaining about being unjustly kicked from groups. (If true or not) then there were about the leader leaving and causing the whole group to become disconnected.

So as advice, we told people to make there own groups and describe what they wanted in the group so that they could not be kicked. Then in a stroke of genius Anet removed the Instance owner and negated all the advice in one fell swing.

I know I counted more “I was kicked this is unfair threads” then I did, “Our leader left and we all got booted”

Today I drove some people nuts in ascalon catacombs p1. The cave troll appeared and people wanted to skip it despite being an all champ group. So I went and tried to solo him in downstate while everyone had to wait for me. Got him to 50% before I got bored and let myself killed. The people seemed pretty angry about my attempts.

Malediktus.9250:

Please bring back instance owners. I am tired of advertising my group as “no skipping” or “all champions” or similar and then people skip everything anyway even if you remind them of the description. Before the update I could just leave to punish them with having to start over. I want this option back because I have no other means as enforcing my advertised preferences.

nooooooooo that was terrible, it was the worst system ever for people that get disconnected…everyone suffered

Malediktus.9250:

Please bring back instance owners. I am tired of advertising my group as “no skipping” or “all champions” or similar and then people skip everything anyway even if you remind them of the description. Before the update I could just leave to punish them with having to start over. I want this option back because I have no other means as enforcing my advertised preferences.

Worst idea ever. The previous system allowed so much griefing and was extremely hazardous if say, the person starting the dungeon loses connection or suddenly has an emergency and has to go. Everyone loses progress. Because of one person. Yar, sounds fair there matey.

If you really want penultimate powers to single handedly boot players, then ask for that feature to be added. Add a little donkey icon to the name of the player who has requested this power, so I know that if I don’t know this person I probably don’t want to be grouped with him/her.

The new system allowes for even more griefing. Your argument is void.
Instead of the party starter now the rest of the group can grief the party starter by ignoring whatever rules he set on the lfg system.

Malediktus.9250:

Crysto.7089:

Malediktus.9250:

Depths.4051:

No instance owner is the best thing to ever happen to dungeons, I’m sorry but I 100% disagree with OP. If your in a long and difficult dungeon, and the the pug leader who opened has to leave, the dungeons over. Even if the opener doesn’t leave party and disconnects the instance eventually times out and people are forced to leave. The new system is a god send in my opinion and I hope it never reverts.

There are no long and difficult dungeons in this game. Even Arah p4 can be done without skipping/exploiting in a hour or less.

an hour straight of playing a video game isn’t a long time? you must be old.

Not really. I remember times when you raided 6+ hours non stop. Good old times.
1h is really not very long.

6+ hours!? psh, 10-12 hours for plane of Growth in EQ initially! and that was a quick clear!

Really though, this is a huge issue… I very very very very very very very very very much wish they’d put in party owners. I’d rather be kicked because I didn’t follow the leaders commands, than deal with the bullkitten that this total cesspool of a community this game has created. Please ANet step in, give the players some power to fix our community.

Jerus.4350:

Malediktus.9250:

Crysto.7089:

Malediktus.9250:

Depths.4051:

No instance owner is the best thing to ever happen to dungeons, I’m sorry but I 100% disagree with OP. If your in a long and difficult dungeon, and the the pug leader who opened has to leave, the dungeons over. Even if the opener doesn’t leave party and disconnects the instance eventually times out and people are forced to leave. The new system is a god send in my opinion and I hope it never reverts.

There are no long and difficult dungeons in this game. Even Arah p4 can be done without skipping/exploiting in a hour or less.

an hour straight of playing a video game isn’t a long time? you must be old.

Not really. I remember times when you raided 6+ hours non stop. Good old times.
1h is really not very long.

6+ hours!? psh, 10-12 hours for plane of Growth in EQ initially! and that was a quick clear!

If memory doesn’t fail me, AV could last indefinitely back then in Vanilla WoW, before they introduced the reinforcement system.

Malediktus.9250:

The new system allowes for even more griefing. Your argument is void.
Instead of the party starter now the rest of the group can grief the party starter by ignoring whatever rules he set on the lfg system.

How does it allow for MORE griefing? It’s easier for 1 person to grief 4 people than 4 people to collectively decide to grief 1 person. I’m not saying the current system is perfect, but it’s better than it was before. Previously, whether by mistake or malicious intent, if the instance owner left/disconnected then 4 other people lose all progress. How is that fair?

You want the ability to own your group and instance? Fine. Ask for a new system which will permit you to own an instance/boot players single-handedly if you start the group. I’ll just know better than to group with a person I don’t know who has said powers. But going back to the old system is completely laughable, as it was one of the worst things about this game.

Or, how about this. You do something you’ve likely told dozens of people in the past under the old system. “Group with people you know.”

I often group with people I know, but they are not always available and there is this lfg system which allows you to set a description for your group so other people see what the group is about. If they dont agree with it, they should not join.

Malediktus.9250:

The new system allowes for even more griefing. Your argument is void.
Instead of the party starter now the rest of the group can grief the party starter by ignoring whatever rules he set on the lfg system.

The problems are now entirely due to politics within the group, i.e. players just being unable to do things together. If the players are collectively so bad that they cannot sort it out then they still have the tools to resolve it. The previous system penalized both players who were being good and players who were being bad. It was a worse system. Good players should not be given a bad grouping system because of players who cannot manage their groups.

There is no “their” groups. there is no ownership.

Everyone gets kicked from dungeons 24/7.
I solo and sell dungeons myself, and the amount of times I have been kicked by a pair of ruthless players is beyond ridiculous now.
I’ve come here directly from a support ticket to Anet, which I aimed to show my discontent with such a flimsy system. I had reported multiple rule-breakers in this area (using the LFG system, one friend joins, pays the slot price, next person joins after I remove one ‘filler’, they turn out to be friends and kick me, so they can sell the dungeon and steal my money… ) Sound ethical, Anet?

None of the reported have been banned, as I still see them logging on in my ‘Block’ list – which by the way does absolutely nothing helpful. I have tonnes of screenshots with the alleged players, being rude and deceptive, yet Anet doesn’t seem to want to acknowledge that.

Some obvious suggestions———-

1. Make the blocking system also include party recruitment (ie, a blocked player cannot see a party LFG) – At least then we can combat these players ourselves…

2. MAKE A PARTY LEADER OPTIONAL (ie, not kickable)

3. Clarify your rules to YOUR PLAYERS, if you do nothing to solve this problem or don’t even hint that you are interested in sorting this out for your players, I’d be very tempted to start taking this into a vigilante-style vengeance… because if we’re on our own, and you aren’t even banning players for the LFG-system abuse, why do we not just take justice into our own hands, and play their game back at them to retrieve our instance?

Hoping that Anet will see this post by a frustrated player, as I am positive many others are. I will post this on a few related threads. (It was suggested by Anet after all, to share my ideas so that they may see them and better this game.) What better way than to show them just the level of disregard players feel Anet have for them.

P.S An honest reply would be a strong one.

Simple way would be to make the party leader actualy able to transfer dungeon lead to another upon disconecting?

I’ll repeat it as many times as it is needed.Having a party leader is a must in instances.Without it is really messy.
I’m against instance owners and i don’t want that system to return.It was and is an awful design.

I want to be perfectly clear.Party leader is not the same thing as instance owner.