Guild Wars 2

Even with an increased number of vote kicks as a solution to having just two people control the group there are times when people will rage at one misstep and an entire group of randoms will still side with said person and agree on a kick.

It’s become near impossible to play a thief for me because of this. Everyone expects perfection in stealth’s during dungeon runs and when someone else messes up the blame in solely on me.

How am I supposed to even play this game when I am afraid of being kicked every single dungeon run?

Instance owners or party leaders provides that safety net and having an opt in option to activate instance ownership would keep the current system as the majority to combat the old problem of disconnects.

As valid as your points are, they’ve been brought up here 9001 times already. Give it a rest, nothing will happen =/

A better solution would be to figure out what you’re doing so blatantly wrong that people feel the need to kick you, because I haven’t been kicked from a dungeon run in months tbh.

I imagine from the perspective of the people kicking you, some of them feel relieved for this system because it means they can actually progress without a single/multiple people hindering them or not contributing what is expected of them.

Previous system had its flaws, this one does too. At the very least with this one, the majority of the people that run dungeons don’t have to worry about everyone losing progress when the person that opened leaves/gets kicked.

To be fair to the OP Miku, I doubt you run into situations like the one the OP described. You’re not going to get kicked for not knowing skips, stealth, or learning to play your class.

However yes, there likely won’t be a change anytime soon. Personally I’d like a party leader system to enforce some semblance of party structure. It’s just as flawed as anything else though. People with bad intentions will always find a way to grief and ruin the fun for everyone else.

Sadly for now the best advice will be to play with friends.

I find it hard to believe it’s only for falling short of perfection that you’re being routinely kicked; everyone messes up now and again; as long as you apologize and make it clear you know what you did wrong, the vast majority of players will be understanding. Alternatively, make a group and advertise yourself as an inexperienced player, and you will end up with players who have a much higher tolerance threshold, albeit likely in proportion to how bad they are themselves.

What is definitely not a good idea is to bring back instance owners. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve mentally thanked Anet for patching them out. When my whole party but me rage quit in the Cliffside frac, because they couldn’t handle failing at the arm seals. Or when the opener turned out to be an elitist with delusions of grandeur 3/4 of the way through a fractal run, ignoring the strategy we all agreed on because his (unspoken) strategy was better, etc.

If you’re a decent player, both in terms of social conduct and competence, you really shouldn’t be getting kicked often, much less so often you’re drawn toward the tyranny of the instance owners.

I find there’s a number of different kinds of groups even on the LFG:
- New-to-path or new-to dungeon groups (“all welcome” etcetera)
- Casual runs, or no-skip/no-stack/RPG
- “Exp” groups (yes, exp means experienced!)
- Gear/AP/level requiring groups (Exp zerk 4k+ 80)
- Meta and/or speed groups

The requirement for each group is gradually more stringent, so I doubt anyone would be kicked out of the first kind unless they’re being obnoxious. Same pretty much goes for second and most of the 3rd. When you get in to zerk and similar people start actually having demands and if you’re not reasonably up to par you can get kicked there, depending on the mood of the group – I’ve seen very forgiving zerker groups but also ones where you get kicked for somewhat minor “offenses”. For meta/speed ones I have no idea, but I assume they would be pretty unforgiving of mistakes.

When I join a group on the LFG I make sure to only join the kinds that match my level of expertise and style of play. If I don’t find one that matches, I just make my own post and fill a team pretty darn fast. I don’t think I’ve been kicked more than once from a group since starting to run dungeons.

TL/DR: If there’s no group on the LFG that match your level of expertise, make your own.

MyGWAccount.7325:

Even with an increased number of vote kicks as a solution to having just two people control the group there are times when people will rage at one misstep and an entire group of randoms will still side with said person and agree on a kick.

It’s become near impossible to play a thief for me because of this. Everyone expects perfection in stealth’s during dungeon runs and when someone else messes up the blame in solely on me.

How am I supposed to even play this game when I am afraid of being kicked every single dungeon run?

Instance owners or party leaders provides that safety net and having an opt in option to activate instance ownership would keep the current system as the majority to combat the old problem of disconnects.

This is easy to solve. Just you be the one that always enters the dungeon. That way if they kick you, they all get kicked too, so they basically kicked themselves when they kicked you.

Or just play with your tight ring of friends.
If you have any.
Do you have any?
I don’t have any.
Friends?

Shpongle.6025:

MyGWAccount.7325:

Even with an increased number of vote kicks as a solution to having just two people control the group there are times when people will rage at one misstep and an entire group of randoms will still side with said person and agree on a kick.

It’s become near impossible to play a thief for me because of this. Everyone expects perfection in stealth’s during dungeon runs and when someone else messes up the blame in solely on me.

How am I supposed to even play this game when I am afraid of being kicked every single dungeon run?

Instance owners or party leaders provides that safety net and having an opt in option to activate instance ownership would keep the current system as the majority to combat the old problem of disconnects.

This is easy to solve. Just you be the one that always enters the dungeon. That way if they kick you, they all get kicked too, so they basically kicked themselves when they kicked you.

Or just play with your tight ring of friends.
If you have any.
Do you have any?
I don’t have any.
Friends?

Not anymore. There are no instance owners. No one gets kicked no matter who gets kicked. Even the person who starts the instance.

This is after tons and tons of people complained that their instance owner left for whatever reason. Rage quit, lost connection, etc. And then there was the instance owner got his goods and then immediately left, causing people to not be able to get their end reward.

Neither system is ideal. However, I think no instance owner is the lesser of the two evils.

In fairness it is pretty annoying when you join a group with a thief and they do annoying stuff like wait for SR cooldown instead of using smoke fields occasionally. If you want to keep playing thief then practise and research how its played on each path so you dont run into this problem.

If you are getting kicked for things messing up. Maybe its because you are pinning the blame on someone. People take that personally. When its not your fault dont give players any reason to kick you.

Saint.5647:

To be fair to the OP Miku, I doubt you run into situations like the one the OP described. You’re not going to get kicked for not knowing skips, stealth, or learning to play your class.

However yes, there likely won’t be a change anytime soon. Personally I’d like a party leader system to enforce some semblance of party structure. It’s just as flawed as anything else though. People with bad intentions will always find a way to grief and ruin the fun for everyone else.

Sadly for now the best advice will be to play with friends.

I guess the point that I’m getting across is that yes, the new system has its flaws, but overall to the average player in this game the most abundant nuisance to instanced party content has been eliminated.

I do agree that it’d be nice to have some form of party leader system, but yeah. No choice but to adapt.

I made a party called ’Noob’s first time CoF p1’ and solo’d the instance up to the 4 braziers when 2 players joined, watched me wipe, then kicked me out of my party.

Please bring back instance owners.

Create your own party, then make sure you are clear in explaining expectations in the beginning of the dungeon. This way when they decide to kick you, they will do it toward the beginning of the dungeon instead of the middle/end of it. Doesn’t matter if you have a good description in the lfg, you need to type it out in party chat so everyone is on the same page.

The new lfg system sucks a big one, but this is the only way around it.

Example:

I frequently get kicked out of my own group when creating a party for HotW p1 “melee everything” at the troll or at Ginva. Another one is when i do “melee everything” for arah p4 and I melee melandru.

Now, instead of relying on the just the lfg description, I screen out people in the beginning once the group fills. “We are all clear that we will melee (troll/Ginva/Melandru/etc), if you are not ok with this leave now, or you will be kicked later on in the run.” Sometimes people leave, sometimes I get kicked, but at least it happens in the beginning.

Very tedious and it results on me doing less of these paths.

Is this bullkitten? yes, but Anet is has been very transparent on them not spending any development when it comes to dungeons, so you’d better believe they will not give a kitten about fixing this problem as it only applies to dungeon goers.

Good luck.

Playing EU PUGs exclusively, I hardly ever see anyone kicked, at all. Most cases are if someone is unresponsive, AFK for a while and similar. I seriously question whether all the people complaining about getting kicked here are telling the full stories.

For example, with NonToxic’s story, I really wonder why people would kick him. I see two possible explanations. (not trying to place blame here, just pointing out that there are possible alternate ways people would perceive situations)

Or were they, as stated, simply predators tempted by a juicy almost complete dungeon for their friends. Who knows. I wasn’t there. I’m just saying people should try to see things from others’ perspectives too.

But in the end, given the amount of problems having no party leader solves (offline or AFK people being removable, not getting kicked for people switching characters,…), compared to the problems it creates… the new system is WAAAAY BETTER.

Yes new system is better. But still…

When I play dungeon with PUG where I see 2+ members from one guild I just printscreen their login names and when they kick me in strange situation (like before last boss fight, or before 4th fractal) = block + report them all. Because It’s the only thing I can do about this.

The only good solution is find dungeon/fractal active guild and dont use LFG anymore. Then you can trully enjoy this game because a lot of ppl are just selfish and greedy.

Instance owners are not a good system.Here is why:

• The opener can’t switch to another character.
• Disconecting kicks the party out.
• Leaving kicks the party out.
• Openers have to much power.

What Anet has to do is to creat a party leader system or atleast to start with increasing the vote kick from 2 to 3.

I have never been kicked out of a dungeon run. Even when I played a new class I never played like thief which I main at the moment. It’s really hard coming from guardian and you have to learn a lot, but even then I seem not as bad as people think they want to kick me.

Playing thief in a pug group is stupid, 99% of the time no one blasts stealth or is blasting stealth incorrectly(I swear a good percentage of people can’t aim into the smoke fields). There is always this one guy who doesn’t know all the stealth spots and just runs ahead thus negating the reason to stealth since everything will be pulled to the next fight spot. This even happens in semi organized groups where there are people who are experienced in dungeon runs and are actually in dungeon running guilds. Play warrior if you dont wanna get kicked, its hardto blame anything on the warrior.

Playing thief in an “experienced speedrun” pug is more difficult than we think. People reaching for guides like metabattle.com only care about their own build and rotation while having absolutely no knowledge of blasting stealth. They are dependent yet very picky on the thief.

Imagine that I have to use all Blinding Powder, Smoke Screen and Shadow Refuge for a simple run in CM and have to wait for CD to swap utilities for battle. It is annoying. Not to mention how people innocently run ahead of you, get revealed and drag an horde of aggro with them. I even devolved to a D/P build for more survivality. In my opinion, either trying to match the mediocrity of your pug group or bring a friend who knows how to blast.

I have done an Arah run with the OP.

It was a zerker only group with ping (which he enforced being the party leader)

He screwed up several stealth attempts, which didn’t get him kicked even though the group had an expected requirement.

What did get him kicked is saying “you can’t kick me I record all my arah run”

Your not getting kicked for being bad, your getting kicked for being a jerk AND being bad

Kazin.2073:

I have done an Arah run with the OP.

It was a zerker only group with ping (which he enforced being the party leader)

He screwed up several stealth attempts, which didn’t get him kicked even though the group had an expected requirement.

What did get him kicked is saying “you can’t kick me I record all my arah run”

Your not getting kicked for being bad, your getting kicked for being a jerk AND being bad

That is not a correct quote, it is what you wanted to hear in your fit of rage when you took your time running up to the group. You failed to keep up with the group and my stealths and blamed the ensuing aggro you created that wiped the group in your hissy fit directed solely at me.

What I did say was that if you are thinking about kicking me that I am recording the run. Because of the tone of your rant and the fact that you were speaking lies already about who aggro’d I felt the need to try and defend my position as I am doing now. After which, without hesitation, you (and I can only guess because of the language you expressed in party chat towards me) had me kicked from the party. The only person who was a jerk up to that point was you for playing the blame game and pointing fingers every chance you had.

Playing a thief isn’t even the issue here. I should be allowed to be able to play a thief without being confined to bringing stealth skills. Having stealth is only a luxury. Dungeon runs are 100% completeable without having stealth, what happens if you don’t have a thief in the party? do you kick until you have one? No.

Having dungeon owners and party leaders protects me from people like you who will bad mouth others into thinking like you when you are all heated because of your prejudice towards others, or because you had a bad day at work or school or for what ever other reason. I as a solo dungeon runner have nothing I can even do when people like you go off to protect myself which is why I want some security in this matter.

As an aside to your first accusation about me enforcing the ping gear, which was also wrong by the way. When you joined the party you asked if all gear was pinged, in which i replied simply with “yes” because everybody in the party had pinged the gear. The answer in no way means that if you did not ping all of your gear that I would have kicked. It also does not mean that I am the party leader as there is no such thing hense my creation of this topic. The person who created the LFG left the party earlier on before the dungeon even started.

And to your second paragraph that I screwed up several stealths, again I did no such thing. It is only hearsay and in an experienced group you should be expected to be able to make the runs on your own without stealth anyways, but that is beside the point of this thread which is to bring back instance owners or implement party leaders with the option to opt into joining parties with them leaving the current system as the majority or vice versa so it can appeal to both views.

MyGWAccount.7325:

Kazin.2073:

I have done an Arah run with the OP.

It was a zerker only group with ping (which he enforced being the party leader)

He screwed up several stealth attempts, which didn’t get him kicked even though the group had an expected requirement.

What did get him kicked is saying “you can’t kick me I record all my arah run”

Your not getting kicked for being bad, your getting kicked for being a jerk AND being bad

That is not a correct quote, it is what you wanted to hear in your fit of rage when you took your time running up to the group. You failed to keep up with the group and my stealths and blamed the ensuing aggro you created that wiped the group in your hissy fit directed solely at me.

What I did say was that if you are thinking about kicking me that I am recording the run. Because of the tone of your rant and the fact that you were speaking lies already about who aggro’d I felt the need to try and defend my position as I am doing now. After which, without hesitation, you (and I can only guess because of the language you expressed in party chat towards me) had me kicked from the party. The only person who was a jerk up to that point was you for playing the blame game and pointing fingers every chance you had.

Playing a thief isn’t even the issue here. I should be allowed to be able to play a thief without being confined to bringing stealth skills. Having stealth is only a luxury. Dungeon runs are 100% completeable without having stealth, what happens if you don’t have a thief in the party? do you kick until you have one? No.

Having dungeon owners and party leaders protects me from people like you who will bad mouth others into thinking like you when you are all heated because of your prejudice towards others, or because you had a bad day at work or school or for what ever other reason. I as a solo dungeon runner have nothing I can even do when people like you go off to protect myself which is why I want some security in this matter.

As an aside to your first accusation about me enforcing the ping gear, which was also wrong by the way. When you joined the party you asked if all gear was pinged, in which i replied simply with “yes” because everybody in the party had pinged the gear. The answer in no way means that if you did not ping all of your gear that I would have kicked. It also does not mean that I am the party leader as there is no such thing hense my creation of this topic. The person who created the LFG left the party earlier on before the dungeon even started.

And to your second paragraph that I screwed up several stealths, again I did no such thing. It is only hearsay and in an experienced group you should be expected to be able to make the runs on your own without stealth anyways, but that is beside the point of this thread which is to bring back instance owners or implement party leaders with the option to opt into joining parties with them leaving the current system as the majority or vice versa so it can appeal to both views.

Well since you recorded the run why dont you post it on youtube let the masses see for themselfs who of you guys thats in the wrong.

Its alot better then the word against word, mud slinging you guys are doing atm.

And I for one dont want party leaders back it protects the wrong people most of the time.

Was in a french no rush p1 se today.
I thought no rush meant no skip so dutyfully killed everything untill i was kicked, loled made a new party and got run done in 15 mins anyway.

I agree with Linken.6345@
If the OP has recorded the run then post the video to support your position.If not then you have 0 credibility.People won’t kick you for no reason.

I’m very patient player and rarely kick people.Today i had 3 newbies in Arah P4.We finished the run longer than normally but noone was kicked.(The new players actually learned something)A lot of players will teach and explain things.But if you are being a kitten douchbag i will kick you right away.

Also if a thief is just refusing to not use his stealth or guard is not using his reflects or warr not using his banner to ressurect.Everyone of them deserves to be booted out.You play a dungeon where is expected a group support.If you are not pulling your kitten even i will kick you.When i see a newbie between 600-2000AP not using some spells i tell him what,when,how to use.
The same is expected with everyone else.If you are not doing your job as thief which means to stealth people when it is needed and make it in a problem the you will be kicked out right away.

moiraine.2753:

I agree with Linken.6345@
If the OP has recorded the run then post the video to support your position.If not then you have 0 credibility.People won’t kick you for no reason.

I’m very patient player and rarely kick people.Today i had 3 newbies in Arah P4.We finished the run longer than normally but noone was kicked.(The new players actually learned something)A lot of players will teach and explain things.But if you are being a kitten douchbag i will kick you right away.

Also if a thief is just refusing to not use his stealth or guard is not using his reflects or warr not using his banner to ressurect.Everyone of them deserves to be booted out.You play a dungeon where is expected a group support.If you are not pulling your kitten even i will kick you.When i see a newbie between 600-2000AP not using some spells i tell him what,when,how to use.
The same is expected with everyone else.If you are not doing your job as thief which means to stealth people when it is needed and make it in a problem the you will be kicked out right away.

Yeah, nobody gets kicked unjustly ever! In fact, I only kick newbies, people that don’t equip banners when I tell them to, people who aren’t supporting the group, people who don’t listen, people with less than 500 AP, people I don’t like, people who talk back…

NonToxic.9185:

moiraine.2753:

I agree with Linken.6345@
If the OP has recorded the run then post the video to support your position.If not then you have 0 credibility.People won’t kick you for no reason.

I’m very patient player and rarely kick people.Today i had 3 newbies in Arah P4.We finished the run longer than normally but noone was kicked.(The new players actually learned something)A lot of players will teach and explain things.But if you are being a kitten douchbag i will kick you right away.

Also if a thief is just refusing to not use his stealth or guard is not using his reflects or warr not using his banner to ressurect.Everyone of them deserves to be booted out.You play a dungeon where is expected a group support.If you are not pulling your kitten even i will kick you.When i see a newbie between 600-2000AP not using some spells i tell him what,when,how to use.
The same is expected with everyone else.If you are not doing your job as thief which means to stealth people when it is needed and make it in a problem the you will be kicked out right away.

Yeah, nobody gets kicked unjustly ever! In fact, I only kick newbies, people that don’t equip banners when I tell them to, people who aren’t supporting the group, people who don’t listen, people with less than 500 AP, people I don’t like, people who talk back…

kitten i would get kicked i never use revive banner to long cd rather use signet of rage

Man, I must be super lucky then. No sarcasm intended, and I know because it’s never happened to me it doesn’t happen, but I’ve never been kicked from a dungeon simply because of my profession, and I’ve run all the usual suspects in Engineer, Thief, and Ranger. I find it strange people out there blame the Thief when someone else kitten’s up the SR or something. I’ve had plenty of runs where people bork it up including Ranger’s not stowing pet and no one has ever taken it out on me.

So many people want there to be an actual party leader system or structure in groups…this makes no sense in gw2. There is no need or purpose for assigning any tasks or roles in 5 man groups in this game…at least not in pve. Everyone in the groups should already know what they are doing and how to play. If there is instruction needed, having a party leader does not fix that…typing in chat or speaking in whatever your preferred voice application takes care of that. Anyone in the group can assign a group target…you don’t need a party leader for that either. I fail to see the point in any type of party leader system in instances in gw2.

I’m reading between the lines here and getting that the reason some are complaining about the removal of instance leaders, is that they were the ones abusing being an instance leader….they miss relying on not being able to be kicked (afk with no penalty, abusive language towards other players, ridiculous demands on other party members, completely not meeting group requirements, etc).

The short of this is, there was nothing worthwhile that was lost from instancing by removing instance owners. There were huge gains in removing instance owners. If you needed to be kicked, now you can be. You can no longer hold your entire instance group hostage. Groups that would have kicked you before…will still kick you. Now there is just less hassle. You don’t have to stay in a bad group just out of pity to keep them from losing progress anymore. If you are having issues with getting kicked, examine the real reason why you are getting kicked…don’t look to hide behind a flawed system to ride on your group’s back.