Guild Wars 2

Res signet anyone? Utility skill available to every class, insta-res a fallen ally, recharges when you kill a boss….

Teams that run without it gain the use of all utility slots, teams that decide to slot a hard res lose a little utility.

Just a thought to deal with how hard it is to res someone who’s defeated and standing under a dungeon boss.

I like the idea of something like this. I tend to think that it should be a little more complicated than this though. I would still like a little bit of utility with my res. So like a hard res for each class that offers some sort of class specific utility. Anyways they have to do something and i’m confident that they will figure it out.

Skills like Signet of Undeath should affect dead allies. There is a very small window for allies to be downed, when the boss is right next to them.

And give me back Empathy please. Mobs shouldn’t be be allowed to auto attack without ways to shut them down.

O dear god! It’s returning! The never ending battle between team “always carry a res in dungeons” and “I need all my slots and can’t carry a res!” team. I mean seriously, forget the hard res, how many people carry the battle res they do have now? I have seen warriors sometimes have their banner res and engineers sometimes have Elixer R but most people do not carry their battle res. Before we start asking for hard reses, maybe we should start using our battle reses and see if that helps group not perform better in dungeons.

Freyr Sieverson.8193:

I like the idea of something like this. I tend to think that it should be a little more complicated than this though. I would still like a little bit of utility with my res. So like a hard res for each class that offers some sort of class specific utility. Anyways they have to do something and i’m confident that they will figure it out.

GW1 had several different ‘hard res’ mechanics…. Res Signet was universally available, but you also had Sunspear Rebirth Signet (revives target ally and teleports them to your location.) You could do fun things with different classes and their core mechanics to enable different forms of hard res… but the goal would be that every class had one.

Tinni.4351:

O dear god! It’s returning! The never ending battle between team “always carry a res in dungeons” and “I need all my slots and can’t carry a res!” team. I mean seriously, forget the hard res, how many people carry the battle res they do have now? I have seen warriors sometimes have their banner res and engineers sometimes have Elixer R but most people do not carry their battle res. Before we start asking for hard reses, maybe we should start using our battle reses and see if that helps group not perform better in dungeons.

I tried running the battle res on my necro, saw it only worked on downed players found that not so usefull and gave it up. If it would have worked on killed players I would use it in some of the “harder” bossfights in Dungeons.

CassieGold.7460:

Res signet anyone? Utility skill available to every class, insta-res a fallen ally, recharges when you kill a boss….

Teams that run without it gain the use of all utility slots, teams that decide to slot a hard res lose a little utility.

Just a thought to deal with how hard it is to res someone who’s defeated and standing under a dungeon boss.

Wait. We have hard resses already.

Every class except thieves have a hard rez. Thieves have SR to make up for it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resurrect

On top of that you have the rally mechanic too, which is an instant res.

Ressing during a boss fight is currently a broken mechanic.

You have 5 players in a group doing DPS. 1 goes down, 1 goes to Res, 3 weakest members are doing DPS. Boss kills the Resser. 2 Down, 2 Ressing, 1 DPS/kiting (maybe). Wipe inevitable.

Res Rushing became the obvious mechanic because its faster to Res from the Waypoint than having someone Res you.

SOLUTION:
It should only take 0.2 seconds to res a ‘Downed’ ally, give them like a 1 second cripple. (no this won’t work in PVP).

Let Elixer R & Battle Rez work on players that have been killed, but not yet released.

Give downed player the ability to shield their ‘Rezzer’ from harm.

People that make these threads really should learn to use the downed state better.

That doesn’t just mean target the weakest enemy and kill them for rally, that’s basic. Things like being aware of the chance that you will be downed, looking for an enemy that is almost dead, NOT killing that enemy so that you can rally when downed, are important things to learn.

Ursan.7846:

CassieGold.7460:

Res signet anyone? Utility skill available to every class, insta-res a fallen ally, recharges when you kill a boss….

Teams that run without it gain the use of all utility slots, teams that decide to slot a hard res lose a little utility.

Just a thought to deal with how hard it is to res someone who’s defeated and standing under a dungeon boss.

Wait. We have hard resses already.

Every class except thieves have a hard rez. Thieves have SR to make up for it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resurrect

On top of that you have the rally mechanic too, which is an instant res.

from your wiki link :

Skills that revive allies can only revive them from Downed state, not Defeated state.

Thats more like a band-aid. Not really a hard res.

Ashur Etil Lani.4518:

Ursan.7846:

CassieGold.7460:

Res signet anyone? Utility skill available to every class, insta-res a fallen ally, recharges when you kill a boss….

Teams that run without it gain the use of all utility slots, teams that decide to slot a hard res lose a little utility.

Just a thought to deal with how hard it is to res someone who’s defeated and standing under a dungeon boss.

Wait. We have hard resses already.

Every class except thieves have a hard rez. Thieves have SR to make up for it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resurrect

On top of that you have the rally mechanic too, which is an instant res.

from your wiki link :

Skills that revive allies can only revive them from Downed state, not Defeated state.

Thats more like a band-aid. Not really a hard res.

But if someone goes down, why wouldn’t you rez them? I’m so confused. Are people just ignoring downed state completely? People HAVE to be downed before being dead, you know. That is your window to get your rez off.

Ursan.7846:

Ashur Etil Lani.4518:

Ursan.7846:

CassieGold.7460:

Res signet anyone? Utility skill available to every class, insta-res a fallen ally, recharges when you kill a boss….

Teams that run without it gain the use of all utility slots, teams that decide to slot a hard res lose a little utility.

Just a thought to deal with how hard it is to res someone who’s defeated and standing under a dungeon boss.

Wait. We have hard resses already.

Every class except thieves have a hard rez. Thieves have SR to make up for it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resurrect

On top of that you have the rally mechanic too, which is an instant res.

from your wiki link :

Skills that revive allies can only revive them from Downed state, not Defeated state.

Thats more like a band-aid. Not really a hard res.

But if someone goes down, why wouldn’t you rez them? I’m so confused. Are people just ignoring downed state completely? People HAVE to be downed before being dead, you know. That is your window to get your rez off.

And when someone is downed and a boss places an AOE ontop of them? Or if someone goes down inside say, lupicus circle of doom.

There are times where rezzing a downed person is impractical/impossible. Unfortunately these happen very often because there are no concrete aggro mechanics, and thus no way for anyone in the party to intentionally draw fire so others can help the team.

Zenyatoo.4059:

Ursan.7846:

Ashur Etil Lani.4518:

Ursan.7846:

CassieGold.7460:

Res signet anyone? Utility skill available to every class, insta-res a fallen ally, recharges when you kill a boss….

Teams that run without it gain the use of all utility slots, teams that decide to slot a hard res lose a little utility.

Just a thought to deal with how hard it is to res someone who’s defeated and standing under a dungeon boss.

Wait. We have hard resses already.

Every class except thieves have a hard rez. Thieves have SR to make up for it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resurrect

On top of that you have the rally mechanic too, which is an instant res.

from your wiki link :

Skills that revive allies can only revive them from Downed state, not Defeated state.

Thats more like a band-aid. Not really a hard res.

But if someone goes down, why wouldn’t you rez them? I’m so confused. Are people just ignoring downed state completely? People HAVE to be downed before being dead, you know. That is your window to get your rez off.

And when someone is downed and a boss places an AOE ontop of them? Or if someone goes down inside say, lupicus circle of doom.

There are times where rezzing a downed person is impractical/impossible. Unfortunately these happen very often because there are no concrete aggro mechanics, and thus no way for anyone in the party to intentionally draw fire so others can help the team.

I love rezzing downed players during Lupi, it’s thrilling. Lay down a projectile blocker, and rez, dodge out of the next attack just in the nick of time. It’s not difficult.

Zenyatoo.4059:

And when someone is downed and a boss places an AOE ontop of them? Or if someone goes down inside say, lupicus circle of doom.

There are times where rezzing a downed person is impractical/impossible. Unfortunately these happen very often because there are no concrete aggro mechanics, and thus no way for anyone in the party to intentionally draw fire so others can help the team.

And this is why you use these hard res skills. Someone got down? Warbanner that dude back up if he’s in a risky position.

I’ve slotted warbanner when I felt like the party was in a rough spot and having people go down frequently (TA explorable in a group where we only had one other lvl 80, and no one had done it before.) I’ve slotted the guardian res signet, and I’ve done stealth res via Shadow Refuge.

Honestly, recovering a Downed player isn’t the problem. Recovering a Defeated player is. Depending on your class, you have different options in a Downed state. Some classes (thief, ele) can move while downed and get out of AoE zones that are dangerous and difficult to recover a player from. Other classes (guardian) have no movement while downed, and may move from downed to defeated because they dodge rolled into a trap and can’t get out of it.

Part of why we had ‘res zerging’ is because getting a defeated player back into combat can be exceptionally time consuming / risky. Res downed / defeated runs back.

And people need to understand, a request for a Hard Res is requesting something that is fundamentally team oriented. It’s choosing to look for a skill that allows you to better assist other players.

So if recovering a Downed player isn’t a problem, why do you need to res Defeated players?

I’m just confused as you seem to be ignoring the Downed state completely. It’s there. A “hard res” will only be useful if you don’t rescue someone from their Downed state. Why would you not do that?

Yes, of course something that can resurrect players from a Defeated players will be “fundamentally team oriented.” Skills that already exist that resurrect Downed players are, also. They’re there, why not use them?

Just finished a TA run tonight with several guildmates who had never done it. Working on the nightmare tree, and my wife is running a D/D ele. We’re working the nightmare tree at the end and BAM! Spike hits her at the wrong time, and she bleeds out fast…. most of the rest of the party is further back, working things at long range, but she’s been working a hit and run to drop the thing…. before we can get to her, she goes from downed to defeated.

Okay, np. Hunker down, get her ressed from defeated, and start falling back…. spike hits her again, and she’s parked in a spot that a few turrets have decided to spam on her. It’s not pretty, she’s having a rough night.

I’m running from my guardian, and the cool down on my ‘soft res’ is 4 minutes… not available again yet from the last time I popped it.

The warrior in the party has fallen back from trying to work melee range and getting stomped on to a mostly rifle position, but the first few minutes were rough. Our engineer is suffering a distinct lack of truly long range, but has hunkered in with some dedicated flame thrower time and yes, she slotted Elixer R.

3 of us are playing in the same room, the warrior is on vent with us.

The boss isn’t the first rough patch we’ve hit, and it’s been 90 minutes to clear Up / Up, skipping nothing the entire way. Things were rough on the vines at the beginning, had some bright moments, but the spider boss after the vines ripped us a number as well. That time around, we weren’t able to revive the engineer before the boss died, despite the fact that both my wife and I stopped working the boss to try to get her up…. one of those ‘boss likes you’ poison blasts did a number on her in the final minutes.

We’d been chatting about this concept going into the boss fights, we slotted soft res skills to help offset some of the problems. We worked our kitten off to get to people as they were downed, help people rally when able, and keep everyone on their feet.

Sometimes, you play well, and bad things happen. The boss crits, you’re skills are on cool down, you’re just a bit over extended, and things happen. I’ve run in groups where everyone is on top of their game, and no one goes down the whole run. I’ve run in groups where the boss drops an AoE and 3/5 of the party are downed in the same instant.

At the end of the run, my g/f looks at me and says ‘I love you, and I’m not letting you talk me into that again’, a guild mate that had been eyeing The Howler says ‘I never want to go down there again’ and the warrior in the group says ‘wow, that was rough.’

Reviving a downed player that’s in the middle of nightmare vine attacks of doom is rough. Getting through those attacks to revive a defeated player is rougher.

I like dungeons. I live in them as much as I can. I work my kitten off to teach mechanics to my guildmates who want to do dungeons, but dislike being the ‘new guy’ in a PUG. The level of frustration that I encounter really saddens me because these are my friends, family and co-workers.

So, maybe I’m looking for some training wheels I can slot to make things a bit easier on the rough end of the stick… or something less punishing than watching 2-3 of my friends sit back and do nothing because they’re defeated, and there isn’t a good way to get them back into action.

I dunno. Sometimes downed feels like just what you need to get back into action… sometimes it feels like the prolonged agony that proceeds defeated.

I’m not going to quote Cassie because he said quite a mouthful but he has a point. If we were able to instantly revive someone whom had been defeated, even on a 5-minute cooldown, dungeons would be easier. The way things are now just places too much risk on anyone willing to revive.

I also agree that Twilight Arbor sucks balls!

This looks way too much “please let me push random buttons and still win”-type of a topic.
For example Lupicus. Only reason you should get downed is if you make a mistake or get extremely unlucky. Current options are more than enough for that.
If you get downed to every other attack then it’s a “l2p”-issue.

Crossplay.2067:

I’m not going to quote Cassie because he said quite a mouthful but he has a point. If we were able to instantly revive someone whom had been defeated, even on a 5-minute cooldown, dungeons would be easier. The way things are now just places too much risk on anyone willing to revive.

I also agree that Twilight Arbor sucks balls!

^ This ^

If having a hard res option isn’t about promoting teamwork, I don’t know what is.

For the L2P coments…. yes, people who go down and go down frequently have some experience to gain and some lessons to learn. This is without question.

The question is: When working with groups at the low end of the skill / experience curve, could something be done that would make the experience of learning less painful / frustrating?

This is not about having a ‘push buttton = win.’ Groups that function with players at the higher end of the experience / skill bell curve should have faster, flawless runs. A flawless run should not be the expectation at the opposite end of the curve.

My goal is to have a better means of getting people from one end of the curve to the other. I think a hard res is a good tool to be able to slot when needed. Obviously, a hard res takes up space on a skill bar, forces you to give up utility, and will result in a sub-optimal run. This was the case in GW1, and experienced, veteran teams cleared w/o access to a hard res frequently because they were exactly that: veteran teams that had learned the ropes well enough to not need a hard res anymore.

The question I would pose to those who see it as an L2P issue is this: When you have 2-3 players in your group that are going down frequently and struggling with the content, how do you address the issue? With 2 people in your group defeated, do you res them? Do you 3 man the boss and leave them to sit in the dirt? Do you reset the encounter, breaking out of combat so they can waypoint? (seriously asking here, L2P applies to me leading the dungeon every bit as much as the rest of the people in the group, and I’m always happy to learn from better leaders.)

I think the existing utility res skills (for each profession) should affect defeated players… maybe increase their cool down slightly.

Please move this to the suggestion part of the forum.

My thoughts, this is not needed and the professions who have a utility skill that res, should be instead also be allowed to also res dead players at a slow rate ofc.
Also they should increase the cooldown on those utility slots if it resses a dead player vs a downed.

Dead player res = double cooldown time.

ZilentNight.5089:

Please move this to the suggestion part of the forum.

My thoughts, this is not needed and the professions who have a utility skill that res, should be instead also be allowed to also res dead players at a slow rate ofc.
Also they should increase the cooldown on those utility slots if it resses a dead player vs a downed.

Dead player res = double cooldown time.

Using a utility skill that provides a res to res a defeated player would be a welcome change, and exactly the sort of thing that I’m looking for in the current dungeon environment. I think Warbanner would be an amazing elite skill if you could revive multiple defeated allies. As is, it’s a nice elite skill, but I think it sits dead on my bar too often because I question ’is now the time that I need it….

I like the soft res utility skill on my guardian more because even though it’s single target, it’s not tieing up my elite skill.

My only reason for not putting this in the suggestion sub-forum is because I think the need / desire for a hard res is really most felt in response to the change in dungeon res…. open world PvE it’s less of an issue / need.

At the very least the myriad of res skills out there should work on defeated allies. When they changed the elementalist sigil to work only on downed and not defeated allies it went from “sometimes useful on long boss fights” to “not ever going to use this ability again”.

Cassie, you’ve yet to outline why exactly a “res defeated player” is in any way a better idea than the “res downed player” skills we have right now.

CassieGold.7460:

I think Warbanner would be an amazing elite skill if you could revive multiple defeated allies.

Warbanner can revive multiple allies.

CassieGold.7460:

As is, it’s a nice elite skill, but I think it sits dead on my bar too often because I question ’is now the time that I need it….

Wouldn’t you have the same dilemma with a “Res dead player” skill?? (Should I res him manually? Or use it and have it on CD for the next 3 minutes?)

CassieGold.7460:

My only reason for not putting this in the suggestion sub-forum is because I think the need / desire for a hard res is really most felt in response to the change in dungeon res…. open world PvE it’s less of an issue / need.

Cassie, you’ve yet to really describe why exactly reviving “dead” players is better than reviving “downed” players. Pretty much most of the things you’ve said can be applied to the current skills we already have, and so leaves me utterly confused as to why you want a “res out of dead” on top of the “res out of downed” we already have.

You already have a safety net for failure in the downed state, and skills like warbanner. Why not use it?

Use your utility/elite revive skill when target would otherwise get defeated.

Warbanner is the only downed state res I’ve seen in wide use, and possibly the only one I wouldn’t recommend change to reviving defeated players (although it revives defeated NPC’s fine). No one I know is going to put a 3 minute cooldown skill on their bar that only works to cut the 5 seconds it takes to revive a downed ally. Defeated is another story, they take much longer to revive mid combat and may be worth a 3 minute cooldown in some situations (dungeon boss fights atm).

There is so many thing you and your team can do to avoid being “downed” and just as many if not more to avoid being defeated.

This is more of a l2p issue here, people shouldn’t be dying so much.

Ursan.7846:

Cassie, you’ve yet to really describe why exactly reviving “dead” players is better than reviving “downed” players. Pretty much most of the things you’ve said can be applied to the current skills we already have, and so leaves me utterly confused as to why you want a “res out of dead” on top of the “res out of downed” we already have.

You already have a safety net for failure in the downed state, and skills like warbanner. Why not use it?

Reviving a Defeated player is not better than reviving a Downed player. It is always preferable to catch them before defeated. It is not always possible.

Some boss mechanics (Kholer) can move a player very quickly from downed to defeated. Crystals that chain stun and bounce around a player (CoF p1 boss, some of the nightmare court in TA, Concentrated sniper fire in CM.)

I’m fine with having to revive in combat and killing the WP zerg…. I like the end of the 1 – 2 – 2 nonsense in CoF p2.

At the same time, I think the res mechanic in its current state can be very punishing. The delay of being able to dodge from reviving a player can leave an attempted resser downed right next to the person they were trying to help.

Part of a huge reason behind this is caused by a loot mechanic that Defeated players get no loot, regardless of contribution. I had a party work very hard to get a defeated player back on her feet last night before the boss died because no one wanted her to loose out on boss loot. 4 man or 3 manning the boss down would have been faster / more efficient, but no one wanted to decide to ignore a fallen ally and have her miss out…. but there she is, in the middle of 3 nightmare vines worth of red circles.

We have good tools. We could have better tools.

If you run in groups where players are never out of position, never caught flat footed, never unprepared for a boss mechanic they’ve never seen, never had 2/5 or 3/5 people in your party in the dirt around you and thought “there has to be a better way….” That’s where I’m coming from.

I’m confused. You’re somehow saying that a “Res from Dead” will make things easier as opposed to “Res from Downed” skills we already have now?

How? If your team is caught in a situation where

A. Res manually is impossible
B. “Res from Downed” Skill is impractical (for some reason. And if you’re getting “downed” to Kholer’s non spins, which is the only way to go from Downed to Dead fast, you’re doing it wrong.)
C. People die.

I’m gonna imagine you’re gonna run into the saaaame problem again. And your skill is now on CD.

The only advantage a “Res from Dead” skill has over “Res from Downed” skill is that it has no time constraints. But in no situation I can think of this time constraint prohibitive. When you get downed, you get a second from invulnerability from BEING DOWNED (which is why you don’t get insta-gibbed from, say, Rumblus’s yells, because you’re invuln for the rest of the duration. Same with Kholer spin. If you’re actually alive and you eat the full thing, you will never get DEFEATED, just downed, unless you’ve been downed previously). And then on top of that, you get a TON more hp/armor when you’re downed (Rumblus’s burrow/knockdown moves 1-hit KO’s most people, it doesn’t outright kill a downed person).

Use your “Res when Downed” skills. learn to love it. If you’re in situations where it’s not enough, “Res when Dead” skills probably won’t help.

Ursan.7846:

I’m confused. You’re somehow saying that a “Res from Dead” will make things easier as opposed to “Res from Downed” skills we already have now?

I’m saying that a Res from Defeated would be useful in addition to Res from Downed.

As you say, it’s about Time. It takes significant time to revive someone from Defeated.

I’m sorry, but when dev’s make comments that they “like to create content that kills people…” I think that having an expectation that people never get killed is expecting a bit much.

CassieGold.7460:

Ursan.7846:

I’m confused. You’re somehow saying that a “Res from Dead” will make things easier as opposed to “Res from Downed” skills we already have now?

I’m saying that a Res from Defeated would be useful in addition to Res from Downed.

As you say, it’s about Time. It takes significant time to revive someone from Defeated.

I’m sorry, but when dev’s make comments that they “like to create content that kills people…” I think that having an expectation that people never get killed is expecting a bit much.

No, you completely miss my point. “Res from Defeated” skills do not take significant time. When I talk about a time constraint, I’m talking about the fact that a person isn’t going to be in downed state forever.

Of course players make mistakes. That’s why you have the safety net of the downed system. In many bosses, there’s mechanics where you can use to rally out of a downed state (flowers in TA wurm boss room, tentacles in Alpha room). And on TOP of that that you have the handy “Res from Downed” skills that already exist.

A “Defeated” state is the punishment for failing all that, despite the safety net that already exists. Introducing an easy “Res from Defeated” skill just trivilizes the downed state and won’t make anything easier.

@ CassieGold I think that’s the point of the downed state/dead state though:

-If you can’t time your dodges/skills to save your life in time, you become invulnerable for a second and put in the downed state.
—In the downed state, you can still rally if you or a party member kills an enemy you have engaged. If that isn’t viable, you also can heal yourself.
—-If that doesn’t work, a team member (any team member, even some NPCs!) can heal you or use a revive skill to instantly rally you.
——If none of THAT works and you go into defeated state, allies (and even some NPCs!) can bring you back up but it takes longer.

You have multiple safety nets to catch you but ultimately, there’s always a way to come back and strong. Think about some advantages to the system and use them:

-You can incrementally rez someone. You don’t have to do it all at the same time but I think (not positive) there’s a bonus for doing so continuously. This means you can hop in, rez for around 3 seconds, hop out, and someone else can hop in to continue the process.
-Multiple players speed up the process immensely.
-Revive is a channel. Reviving someone can be sped up via a Quickness buff and you can use other instant skills while channeling.
-There is gear and traits to make reviving downed and defeated players faster and/or safer.

The only place I’d suggest help for players with the issue of rezzing is when someone goes down in a particularly hostile area. And no, I don’t mean too close to an attacking NPC or inside some dangerous red circles. I mean in lava pits, laser blasts and flaming environments where your dead body constantly takes damage regardless of having 0HP which can make reviving literally impossible. What the solution to that is, I have no idea. I hope some boss fights with environmental hazards like that might have something implemented to retrieve such team mates so that they can then be revived manually.

Case in point, I did CoE path 1 today. I hadn’t done it since October. Three other members of the party have never done it. Everything was pretty smooth until the Project Alpha fights. We died… a lot… There was one moment when the earth attack downed a teammate. I blinked over to him and started reviving soon as it happened and there is NO faster mode of travel than Blink. In the process of that, he started using a fire attack. My health was too low to eat the attack and I couldn’t revive my teammate in time either. I had to let him die or end up downed by his dead body. When he went down and I was the last one standing, there was just no way to revive anyone with the current game’s mechanics. Alpha just throws out too many aoes for the slow revive to work. He also seem to hate me because twice he put me in another crystal cage right after I teleported out of the first one.

We all know Illusion of Life sucks for boss battles because you need a kill to stay up. There’s no guarantee that minions will be in boss battles so I never slot it. I also feel it’s a waste of a skill because it has such a hefty limitation. Now, if I could use it to rez a teammate from defeated, it would be on my bar every time I go into a boss battle I don’t know much about. If it worked in that particular situation, I may have been able to distract the boss long enough for my mate to get the rest of the team up. We had done that quite a few times.

This isn’t a lrn2play issue as I have soloed events in the cursed shore. I’ve killed risen giants on my own, for fun. I’ve fought 3 players and 2 veterans at a wvw supply camp for several minutes, only running afterwards because the rest of the zerg should up. Before the dungeon patch, I held off a room full of silver level bandits while my teammates died, ran back from the waypoint, died again and one decided to approach slowly and gt the others up while they watched me in awe.

I may not be as good as Osi but I kitten well make him proud! But, even with my masochistic sense of challenge, there are mechanics in dungeons that just feel cheap. Being able to instant revive defeated players would take an edge off that.

Illusion of Life doesn’t work on the Undead Tentacles that Alpha spawns?

Also no one else in your party had a res skill?

I mean, if you had 3 people who’ve never encountered Alpha before, I don’t see how how a “Res out of Defeated” skill would help. Since, you know, they’re highly like to get downed from it again.

BTW this is a L2P issue. Not you, but your party members who obviously aren’t used to Alpha’s attacks (which are easy to dodge once you figure out its timing).

Ursan.7846:

BTW this is a L2P issue. Not you, but your party members who obviously aren’t used to Alpha’s attacks (which are easy to dodge once you figure out its timing).

Just curious, what do you do to help your party with a L2P issue?

CassieGold.7460:

Ursan.7846:

BTW this is a L2P issue. Not you, but your party members who obviously aren’t used to Alpha’s attacks (which are easy to dodge once you figure out its timing).

Just curious, what do you do to help your party with a L2P issue?

Be patient, and teach them!

Explain what his attacks are. (Frost circles, rock dropping fire circles, the shooting rock thingie, crystals.) Tell them to count to 2 mississipi from when the circles first appear to when you dodge. Explain to them how helpful blinking abilities are when you get trapped in crystals. Or, if they don’t, how the team needs to focus down crystals to free the guy. (who doesn’t take dmg from the frosssst? Or fire circle, one of them, forget. Explain it too so people don’t risk themselves)

If you die and wipe, communicate to figure out what’s wrong, who’s dying a lot, what can said person do to stop dying less. Don’t be mean (stop dying noob), but be constructive (Hm, I think instead of dodging you just stay at range and walk out of circles).

As it stands though, if you don’t understand a boss very well, you’re not gonna survive him unless you get lucky (or the boss is easy.) You can res him out of a defeated state, but chances are he’s just gonna die again.

Here’s what Anet’s goal is: getting players who are trained on classes to be independent and not reliant on other people for help to work together. Needless to say, this is contradictory to how this game teaches players to play from level 1-80 in PvE common world.

So in lieu of taking away the one crutch some people have in an attempt to get players to work together, they’ve only succeeded in kitten many of them off. So, bring back the hard res skills. Everyone deserves a second chance, and it’s only going to build teamwork if that second chance comes from a fellow player.

Furthermore, the time to res fellow players from dead is really long, and in a fight, it’s too risky for another team member to spend 30 seconds to get another one on their feet, especially when at the expense of their own life. It’s unlikely to happen, and asking players to do so and then them dying will only lead to more begrudging feelings from the player attempting to res to the one needing it, and thus creating tense feelings and working against the spirit of teamwork.

So, lower the time it takes to res a player. Not ridiculously so, but it shouldn’t take over 10 seconds to get another player on their feet from dead. That’s about the normal amount of time it takes in every other game I’ve played to get a player on their feet. If a player successfully resses another player it only builds teamwork and makes both players happy. The player ressed gets on their feet to fight again and is extremely thankful to the other to be able to contribute to the fight, and the one that ressed is thankful that they don’t have to carry on a fight down one man.

In the end, this solution makes everyone happy, creates a sense of teamwork, and helps the less skilled learn in a less severe manner than wiping. I really hope Anet takes this idea into consideration, since in the end, it succeeds in their dungeon goals of bringing players who are taught how to fight on their own together to fight together.

GW2 doesn’t need a hard rez feature. It worked fine without it. The only reason this thread exists is because of the “can’t respawn if team is in combat” feature that was added a few days ago.

Furthermore, GW1 had Scrolls of Resurrection. A resurrection CONSUMABLE. You could click it and rez all party members WITHIN EARSHOT. And they weren’t even difficult to acquire.

What GW2 needs is to remove the “no respawn in combat” dungeon feature, then reduce all “Resurrection utilities” to 1/4-3/4 second cast in PvE. They would only affect downed state (which takes 2 seconds to recover from if you have a player or two healing the downed person anyway) and would need that boosted resurrection time to justify someone taking them in place of another utility.

The hard res really isn’t a big deal to me, it’s more the fact that ressing the dead takes too long. Shorten it in an attempt to meet the players half way. That alone would really make a lot of people happier. It’s too dangerous, laborious, and in the end, possibly counter productive to everything the player and the developers are trying to accomplish.

Raphael.2064:

The hard res really isn’t a big deal to me, it’s more the fact that ressing the dead takes too long. Shorten it in an attempt to meet the players half way. That alone would really make a lot of people happier. It’s too dangerous, laborious, and in the end, possibly counter productive to everything the player and the developers are trying to accomplish.

^ This ^

Hard res might not be the answer, but if A-net makes Change A: No use of waypoints during combat, then it should spark consideration of a Change B: Is the current res mechanic where it should be, post Change A.

My argument is that the current res mechanic is not where it needs to be for the current environment. Hard Res is a possible solution. Change to the existing defeated state is another possible solution.

Another solution I wouldn’t mind is to at least let the defeated player be loot eligible…. right now, half the motivation to get the player back on their feet is so they can get boss loot…. Paying armor repair + sitting with your face in the dirt + not getting boss loot if your party finishes the boss while you’re defeated = over harsh punishment for going all the way down. It frustrates the defeated player no end.

I know there’s a follow on to that that rewarding failure does not encourage people to L2P, but that’s why I’d like to see it easier to get them back on their feet so they can earn it.

All we need is the simple ability for our current, and mostly useless “battle rezzes” to rez from dead, not just downed. The cd on them is already ridiculously long. Chances are you’ll never get it to activate in time before the person goes from downed to dead anyway and honestly imo “downed” players should be rezzed by teammates the normal way anyway. Idk why this is such a hard concept for people to understand. Rez skills should rez from dead, plain and simple.

Make it an elite… I know I’d slot it on most of my characters.