Guild Wars 2

I play guard since like 2 years almost exclusively. Up until HoT guard was a class that was taken to almost all high-end content, especially in pugs. Yes, guard was almost constantly nerfed since like release, but the utility combined with decent dps always made him viable.

Then HoT hit and it seemed like a big: Let’s screw guard big time.

Why?

- Blocks are pretty much useless in raids.
- Reflection is pretty much useless in raids.

Already at this point the class is kinda destroyed, but it goes on:

- As a tank you do nothing but tanking, there is 0 reason to take guard as a tank over op chrono.
- As a dps guard doesn’t offer much. Hammer-DPS isn’t the highest and that’s pretty much it.
(- Heal-guard was always bad.)

Now, we all know that guard can do one thing that isn’t really needed: DPS/“Support”. “Support” basically just means perma protection, which isn’t at all mandatory and most of the time just more dps is better than perma protection from a guard. Yeah, you also got CC, but that’s nothing special.

In addition to that, we don’t got a good range option (scepter 2 cheese doesn’t work most of the time and is hence useless) and the burst from greatsword is useless because raid fights take long (especially with a guard, the irony).

Then, if you add up the nerfs of the past (lowest health pool, no substantial damage creep with HoT) and guard’s natural weakness (low mobility, no constant healing signet), you end up with something that you could describe as useless.

This situation is now frequent since 6 months. Since HoT, chrono outshines guard for tanking, all classes in dps (and druid/ele in healing).

TL;DR: You made guard’s core strengths (blocks + reflection) useless and did not give anything great as a replacement. No, not-so-great damage from dh isn’t a replacement at all.

Solution:

- Rework of block (everything dodgable should be blockable, create good damage when allies’ blocks activate as a trait).
- Health pool back to max.
- Reintroduce reflection for all projectiles (it was really really lazy to just disable it in order to balance out oneshots, really really lazy). Change it to absorption with much lesser cd and higher uptime + range if you still can’t program reflection properly (which is really really sad).
- buff to scepter (dps)
- buff to sword (dps)
(- buff to healing scaling)
- buff to greatsword autohit dps (a really good buff would make guard again viable as a dps alone)

I expect a big buff for guards on 19th. If that doesn’t happen I will probably just abandon this game. So much bad stuff happened in the past and I intentionally delayed raiding to a point when my main class would be viable. 6 months is already too long and I won’t wait 7 months.

Adrenalin.5719:

I play guard since like 2 years almost exclusively. Up until HoT guard was a class that was taken to almost all high-end content, especially in pugs. Yes, guard was almost constantly nerfed since like release, but the utility combined with decent dps always made him viable.

Then HoT hit and it seemed like a big: Let’s screw guard big time.

Why?

- Blocks are pretty much useless in raids.
- Reflection is pretty much useless in raids.

Already at this point the class is kinda destroyed, but it goes on:

- As a tank you do nothing but tanking, there is 0 reason to take guard as a tank over op chrono.
- As a dps guard doesn’t offer much. Hammer-DPS isn’t the highest and that’s pretty much it.
(- Heal-guard was always bad.)

Now, we all know that guard can do one thing that isn’t really needed: DPS/“Support”. “Support” basically just means perma protection, which isn’t at all mandatory and most of the time just more dps is better than perma protection from a guard. Yeah, you also got CC, but that’s nothing special.

In addition to that, we don’t got a good range option (scepter 2 cheese doesn’t work most of the time and is hence useless) and the burst from greatsword is useless because raid fights take long (especially with a guard, the irony).

Then, if you add up the nerfs of the past (lowest health pool, no substantial damage creep with HoT) and guard’s natural weakness (low mobility, no constant healing signet), you end up with something that you could describe as useless.

This situation is now frequent since 6 months. Since HoT, chrono outshines guard for tanking, all classes in dps (and druid/ele in healing).

TL;DR: You made guard’s core strengths (blocks + reflection) useless and did not give anything great as a replacement. No, not-so-great damage from dh isn’t a replacement at all.

Solution:

- Rework of block (everything dodgable should be blockable, create good damage when allies’ blocks activate as a trait).
- Health pool back to max.
- Reintroduce reflection for all projectiles (it was really really lazy to just disable it in order to balance out oneshots, really really lazy). Change it to absorption with much lesser cd and higher uptime + range if you still can’t program reflection properly (which is really really sad).
- buff to scepter (dps)
- buff to sword (dps)
(- buff to healing scaling)
- buff to greatsword autohit dps (a really good buff would make guard again viable as a dps alone)

I expect a big buff for guards on 19th. If that doesn’t happen I will probably just abandon this game. So much bad stuff happened in the past and I intentionally delayed raiding to a point when my main class would be viable. 6 months is already too long and I won’t wait 7 months.

Yes its such a bad class it can be only that class and still down valeguardian

Linken.6345:

Yes its such a bad class it can be only that class and still down valeguardian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drS6JYuuKvY

Are you trolling, passive aggressive or just naive?

If last, being supbar at every single role is useless in this game unless you happen to run into 9 other people on a daily basis that like to do troll comps just for the sake of fun every single week. And you on your own must like being unoptimal aswell.

I’m not sure where your impressions of guardian are coming from but it is actually a desirable class in raids, at least among the groups I play with. Let’s go over the raid bosses.

Vale Guardian: Permanent protection for melee team, can immob seekers from range with hammer 3, can block seeker movement with hammer 5, can knockback seekers with hammer 4, has amazing CC with hammer 4 + bane signet. We bring a guardian every time even if they’re not tanking.

Gorseval: Good here if you’re running a no updraft strategy, can use Retreat to block gorseval’s slam allowing you to DPS instead of dodge.

Sabetha: Permanent protection, she never walks out of symbol, can solo break knuckle’s bar. Can stop teammates from being kicked into flame wall with stand your ground or hallowed ground.

Sloth: wall of reflection and shield of the avenger great for stopping slubling projectiles. F1 pull can drag in multiple slublings if you aim it well. F3 can protect allies from spore shake attack.

Tres Bandidos: Reflect is nice, bane signet can break saboteurs from range

Matthias: wall of reflection removes invuln stacks, F2 great for getting to fountains and condi cleanse, can trait pure of voice for additional condi cleanse, gives protection to allies, can remove a huge chunk of the break bar quickly (very important in this fight, not sure why you undervalue CC) , can save allies from downpour and fire tornadoes with stand your ground, all his attacks can be blocked.

These are things that no other class could bring all together, and I didn’t even mention feel my wrath, which is actually one of the better elite skills in the game for raids, at least in the current meta where some comps may need it to maintain fury (and quickness is obviously good). I’m not sure what happened to you to think that guardian is bad in raids, but it has been my experience that having at least one guardian is extremely valuable in every encounter besides gorseval (and even for that it’s great if you’re doing no updraft). You say hammer DPS “isn’t the highest” but it’s actually pretty good, especially against a stationary target where it is only beaten by elementalist and thief.

And honestly I feel like you haven’t actually played salvation pass, because saying that reflects are not useful is flat out wrong. Reflects aren’t just useful, they are actually mandatory. As in you literally cannot damage matthias without a reflect, and as a practical matter you will never beat sloth without reflect/projectile destruction. Our usual comp for sltoh involves 6-8 projectile killing skills, so guardian is definitely welcome. Block is also stupid good against matthias and sloth, and so is stability.

One thing you are definitely right about however is that weapons besides hammer are not particularly good for PVE. We usually bring scepter/shield as offhand against matthias for some extra CC and for damage when you can’t be close to him, but that’s a pretty weak option.

So yeah I’m expecting no buffs to guards, except maybe to their weapons besides hammer, because guardians are actually pretty good.

Dinosaurs.8674:

I’m not sure where your impressions of guardian are coming from but it is actually a desirable class in raids, at least among the groups I play with. Let’s go over the raid bosses.

Vale Guardian: Permanent protection for melee team, can immob seekers from range with hammer 3, can block seeker movement with hammer 5, can knockback seekers with hammer 4, has amazing CC with hammer 4 + bane signet. We bring a guardian every time even if they’re not tanking.

Gorseval: Good here if you’re running a no updraft strategy, can use Retreat to block gorseval’s slam allowing you to DPS instead of dodge.

Sabetha: Permanent protection, she never walks out of symbol, can solo break knuckle’s bar. Can stop teammates from being kicked into flame wall with stand your ground or hallowed ground.

Sloth: wall of reflection and shield of the avenger great for stopping slubling projectiles. F1 pull can drag in multiple slublings if you aim it well. F3 can protect allies from spore shake attack.

Tres Bandidos: Reflect is nice, bane signet can break saboteurs from range

Matthias: wall of reflection removes invuln stacks, F2 great for getting to fountains and condi cleanse, can trait pure of voice for additional condi cleanse, gives protection to allies, can remove a huge chunk of the break bar quickly (very important in this fight, not sure why you undervalue CC) , can save allies from downpour and fire tornadoes with stand your ground, all his attacks can be blocked.

These are things that no other class could bring all together, and I didn’t even mention feel my wrath, which is actually one of the better elite skills in the game for raids, at least in the current meta where some comps may need it to maintain fury (and quickness is obviously good). I’m not sure what happened to you to think that guardian is bad in raids, but it has been my experience that having at least one guardian is extremely valuable in every encounter besides gorseval (and even for that it’s great if you’re doing no updraft). You say hammer DPS “isn’t the highest” but it’s actually pretty good, especially against a stationary target where it is only beaten by elementalist and thief.

And honestly I feel like you haven’t actually played salvation pass, because saying that reflects are not useful is flat out wrong. Reflects aren’t just useful, they are actually mandatory. As in you literally cannot damage matthias without a reflect, and as a practical matter you will never beat sloth without reflect/projectile destruction. Our usual comp for sltoh involves 6-8 projectile killing skills, so guardian is definitely welcome. Block is also stupid good against matthias and sloth, and so is stability.

One thing you are definitely right about however is that weapons besides hammer are not particularly good for PVE. We usually bring scepter/shield as offhand against matthias for some extra CC and for damage when you can’t be close to him, but that’s a pretty weak option.

So yeah I’m expecting no buffs to guards, except maybe to their weapons besides hammer, because guardians are actually pretty good.

What you just described is sth that almost any combination of chrono-tank + a dps can do better. Except perma-protection (which isn’t mandatory at all and only really usefull for bad groups).

There won’t be big buff to guardian.
So I guess goodbye, my friend.

Nah don’t buff guards, its nice to see people finally realizing mesmers are better.
Also can I have your stuff when you leave?

I’m guessing you haven’t played the 2nd wing?

Adrenalin.5719:

What you just described is sth that almost any combination of chrono-tank + a dps can do better. Except perma-protection (which isn’t mandatory at all and only really usefull for bad groups).

I mean, chrono + DPS is two classes, lol. If guardian can do that work by himself that seems worthwhile, especially since guardian DPS is better than DPS from classes that aren’t elementalist and thief, and they sure as kitten aren’t bringing group support skills.

And even then, I don’t think you’re right. Tell me what chrono + DPS has that matches:

against sloth: 2 relfect/proj destruction skills (or 1 and group stability for fear), a 1200 range pull, fury, a single large instance of quickness (valuable for boonshare because quickness only stacks 8 times), A skill that blocks spore shake for allies, great CC.

Sure, chrono can do some of that. It can provide a single reflect skill, has a 600 range pull, provides quickness, and can block spore shake with distortion. I guess you would kindof have that if you paired it with a ventari revenant? There are two problems though with what you’re saying. The first is that you’re assuming that having more of these things is bad. Chrono can only protect 5 people with distortion. So protecting people with your F3 is still ridiculously good. The quickness is also beneficial to a chrono because it allows for a larger boonshare of quickness, and no other DPS class can give group quickness. Guardian’s pull is much longer range and can hit slublings in a line rather than in a small area. The second is that utility slots on a chronomancer are way more valuable than on a guardian. So if you can bring a reflect on guardian your chrono can bring an extra well which means more quickness and alacrity. It’s also nice if the chrono doesn’t have to pop their illusions to break, so guardian helps there as well.

Against Matthias: Many of the things listed above are still true, but the big thing here is that guardian gives group stability (and don’t try to say well of precog is the same thing, itt’s not instant, it has to be aimed, and it only gives one stack so it won’t free anyone from the tornado). And you’re still apparently discounting the value of guardian’s quick CC, it’s super valuable in this fight. The only things with comparable CC in a short time frame are rev and warrior, but they lose a lot of DPS on their weapon swaps to get that level of CC, and guardian has better DPS than both classes anyway.

Also, I don’t see how you can say that a good team doesn’t want permanent protection. Even if you are good enough to avoid most of the damage, protection allows you to just tank some skills and continue DPSing, for example in the last phase of sabetha against the falling debris.

I don’t know man, guardian has a combination of utility skills that no other single class can bring. Feel my wrath, stand your ground, retreat, and spear of justice alone do things that no other class can do (besides kindof mesmer, but it turns out doing kindof mesmer things is pretty kitten good). I feel like you’re just trying to find stuff that’s bad and ignoring all the good. And I still can’t get past the fact that you said reflects and blocks are useless in raids. That really makes me feel like you haven’t given the class a fair shot in a raid environment because it is so, so wrong.

If you want to quit the game because you don’t like guardian then quit, but don’t pretend you’re hinging it all on some magical guardian buffs in the next patch because they aren’t coming. Non-hammer weapons might get some damage increases, but that’s probably about it. Like it or not guardian is a pretty good class in PvE (and pvp for that matter).

Adrenalin.5719:

I expect a big buff for guards on 19th. If that doesn’t happen I will probably just abandon this game. So much bad stuff happened in the past and I intentionally delayed raiding to a point when my main class would be viable. 6 months is already too long and I won’t wait 7 months.

Wow, resorting to threat already? XD
Anyway, I don’t think Guardian will have (or needs) any big buff, so I suppose it’s good bye then?

Now, on a more serious note, these days Guardian is quite desirable in pretty much all raid fights. This Monday my group did a pug run of wing 1 + first boss of wing 2, and we had a Guardian in all the fight. To be honest, I’ve seen way less thief than Guardian in raid comp these days, even if thieves has more DPS that guards.

And who said Block was useless in raid? I really love block when fighting Gorseval since it can nullify the knockback. VG’s teleportation is blocked with Aegis too IIRC.

Guardians are in an “okay” position. A lot of their strengths were not well reflected (pun intended) in wing 1, with them essentially being reduced to a protection field with good dps on non-mobile targets (aka Sabetha).

However, with the addition of Wing 2, although, they still remain in the “not necessary” spot, it is fairly viable to have one for Slothasor, Trio, and Matthias. That said they have yet to fully utilize the guardian’s ability to block/aegis (excluding DH’s F3), and non-hammer builds are unfortunately not desirable.

Adrenalin.5719:

Linken.6345:

Yes its such a bad class it can be only that class and still down valeguardian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drS6JYuuKvY

Are you trolling, passive aggressive or just naive?

Someone here is trolling, but it isn’t him.

DH is top tier DPS (3-4th).
DH gives permanent protection to a party which is amazing.
DH F3 is absolutely broken in raids, it’s basicly an invuln for the ones inside your hitbox.
In wing 2 SoA* is amazing at sloth. WoR at Matthias for backup if mesmer isn’t able to FB.
If you tank on DH, it’s first off easier and safer. Also when DH is tanking and mesmer isn’t your mesmer has easier time to upkeep 100% quickness.
What more do you need? I’d say DH is on better place than rev and engi.

Adrenalin.5719:

I expect a big buff for guards on 19th. If that doesn’t happen I will probably just abandon this game.

So Guards are in a good spot but not OP and if anet doesn’t make them OP then you leave?
Well, good bye and have fun.

Adrenalin.5719:

- Reflection is pretty much useless in raids.

If you think this, then you clearly haven’t raided much.

Guard has high DPS and high utility. It does not need any buffs.

Guardians are actually in a very good spot. People had a really hard time fitting them into raid team comps until about 3-4 weeks before the release of wing 2. After people figured out how to use them in raids, they are actually very good to have in all 6 boss fights. Also if you think blocks, stab, and reflects are all useless, you clearly haven’t raided enough. Guard DPS is pretty much only beaten by eles and thieves, and thieves are borderline useless in wing 2 and very little reason to use even in wing 1.

DH is mid tier everywhere. Never meta, but also never too horrible to take. In sPvP it’s bad, but not as bad as warrior. In PvE it’s ok-ish, but a combination of other classes can do what a guard can do with more DPS.

In other words, I’m pretty sure anet still thinks of the guard as “in a good place”.

Dinosaurs is absolutely correct on all counts and saved me the effort of posting a long essay.

Adrenalin.5719:

What you just described is sth that almost any combination of chrono-tank + a dps can do better. Except perma-protection (which isn’t mandatory at all and only really usefull for bad groups).

Suffice it to say that none of the higher DPS classes optimally bring even half of the CC that a DH brings, a DH is arguably a DPS class on its own with its ~26k benchmark (beaten only by Tempests and Daredevils), and you’re already bringing Chronomancer(s) anyway. The support that a DH provides in addition to the Chronomancer(s) in the raid group is invaluable and makes runs so much smoother and easier overall.

If anything they need a nerf, too much easy uptime of protection and other utility with good dps output.

Still no buffs, now we are just useless in pvp aswell. GG Anet.