Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: JJBigs.8456

JJBigs.8456

ive been in a few parties that the LFG said “LFG Experienced path x SPEEDRUN”

Now if a ranger or a necro joins, I dont see how they can even qualify for a speedrun unless they do some wierd slow form if it themselves but they join the warrior/guard groups and its annoying if they dont get kicked.

Theres a rare chance a ranger could be running spotter/frost but its 90% pug usually and not worth it most of the time.

How can you word lfgs without making the text uber long too where no one reads it. no engi/nec/ranger at the end of a path, level , etc gets lost in translation and is way too wordy

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Posted by: Nikaido.3457

Nikaido.3457

To be honest with pug roulette if you’re going to exclude a class because of the typical pug, guardian would be the number one in my list. I’ve seen more zerk necro with dagger when asking for speedruns than I’ve seen guardians who didn’t fancy themselves staffing mobs.

Guardians feel like they’ve got a “free pass” on not contributing to a group, even a zerk group.

- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”

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Posted by: Fror.2163

Fror.2163

If the player is full actual dps according to the meta, I don’t see why you cannot let them in. Zerker engi, necro or ranger are interesting to have. They may not actually do as much dmg as a zerker war, but I’m quite sure that they’re better than 90% of GS-camping warriors.

Frór (yes, with the accent!)

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

About a week ago I had an lfg up for full pug team- any class zerk+ scholar only. A necro joined and pinged his gear, it checked out. It was just a quick run of AC so I was like yeh sure. We get in, the dps is pretty subpar vs most of my selective pug runs.. I figured whatever. At hodjin’s first burrows this guy did absolutely nothing, so we just sent an extra guy to the side he was on. At Kholer he got in the way with his huge lich form and people couldn’t see my wall so they stood in front of it and died. Throughout P1 and 2 paths, the dps was just bleh, I’d say we spent about 3-4 mins more than we had to. On P2 he struggled with protecting the mortars at the end, things just weren’t dieing quickly and he was fearing them away from where I wanted them meaning I had to exhaust pulls where I wanted to save them and people could not get their cleaves as often. After p2, he left and I replaced him with a warrior. Things became smoother, spider queen took about a third longer with the necro vs the warrior replacement.

Sure you can take them, but they offer no real offensive or defensive support past control skills that nobody really wants. I prefer a properly geared and traited pug ranger over a properly geared and traited necro. They offer more. I think the only class I 100% turn down are guardians, even with the correct gear, they either fail their traits or fail at using their utilities and virtues correctly.

(edited by J Eberle.9312)

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Necro is really bad at clearing burrows even when built properly. Also if you see a necro spamming lifeblast its a good indication that they dont understand the term dps.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

I haven’t ran into the staff guardians yet. What’s their excuse to using staff? I think I only use staff when doing skips (such as TA) and if I need to kite stuff such as AC P1 burrow event.

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Posted by: Nikaido.3457

Nikaido.3457

What’s their excuse to using staff?

“I support with my heals and might stacks” they say, while mostly spamming horrid staff 1 for the whole duration of many, many fights. Also breaking combo fields with their useless symbol is a popular thing. We need that area retal!

- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”

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Posted by: The Mexican Cookie.3690

The Mexican Cookie.3690

Really depends. If you have utility covered, then there isn’t really a problem with filling the last spot or two with a ranger and/or necro. Player variables aside, it’s not like the classes are useless, they just don’t do as much as other ones.

If your party doesn’t have a warrior for banner(s), a guard for consecrations if needed, something to provide some might, then you might not want to fill your last spot(s) with rangers and necros (and personally, I would sooner take a necro than a ranger).

#LoveArrows2013, never forget.

(edited by The Mexican Cookie.3690)

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Posted by: Iris Ng.9845

Iris Ng.9845

Our group was experimenting with a ranger in place of a warrior (war-range-thief-ele-ele/mes) in some of the dungeons. It is quite sweet!
In all my lfg, I just ban the clerics guard, and maybe bearbow in the future ;D

“Raids are like fortune cookies. You eat the cookie and then read the paper scraps.”

- doranduck, 2016 on Lore in Raids

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Posted by: Anierna.6918

Anierna.6918

Ranger definitely can be a part of speed clears. we’ve been running one recently, and hes been doing quite well. necros on the other hand are useless. all you really need is a war with Fear Me! and you’re set. in most cases, you dont even need a mes with focus or a guard with binding blade because fear me works so well.

as for guards, im very anti-guard. I have a guard, I know a bunch of good guards, my own guard and theirs are all in meta, but I still hate guards. its mostly because of the light fields. but also because a war could be stackijg just as much vuln as an sw/f guard and be giving me better buffs. a mes could be doing the stab and reflects and cleanses instead. and because I have lingering memories of terrible pug guards with light fields and staff and clerics and stacking healing power and all that other noob stuff that subconsciously make me hate all guards, even my own and the other good ones.

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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

Mind explaining me something? i run Meditation guardian 10 0 30 30 0 and its actualy suposed to be somewhat close to top possible damage. Prety much the only class i cant manage to get big numbers with however and god knows im full zerker so why oh god why i cant manage to crit foe with a greatsword spin for more then 6k total without buff, da hell my warrior can hurts more then that without even running pure damage! Maybe its because i dont have might stack and perma fury or food but im still curious as to why i cant at least get 10k+ unbuffed with spins while warrior deals more from average spells..

PS: i aint trying for a support guardian im looking for maximum dps guardian so wich spec is it -_-

Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
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Posted by: Anierna.6918

Anierna.6918

Guard meta is sw/f 10/30/0/5/25. Post-vigor-nerf, guards will probably use obal’s max-DPS build, which is slightly higher dmg. I can’t remember exactly what it is though (20/20…. something?)

(edited by Anierna.6918)

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Posted by: Cat Has Ducks.1982

Cat Has Ducks.1982

Mind explaining me something? i run Meditation guardian 10 0 30 30 0 and its actualy suposed to be somewhat close to top possible damage. Prety much the only class i cant manage to get big numbers with however and god knows im full zerker so why oh god why i cant manage to crit foe with a greatsword spin for more then 6k total without buff, da hell my warrior can hurts more then that without even running pure damage! Maybe its because i dont have might stack and perma fury or food but im still curious as to why i cant at least get 10k+ unbuffed with spins while warrior deals more from average spells..

PS: i aint trying for a support guardian im looking for maximum dps guardian so wich spec is it -_-

Your crit chance is trash, you missing out on about 25% damage modifiers at the very least, and 49% on the higher end of damage modifiers if you go BD.

Swap to 20/25/0/0/25, with full zerker scholar, and in scale 80 dungeons vs bosses, you should always hit over 10k. Using your own vuln applications plus having the enemy burn, will have you easily hit over 10k(generally hitting 19k is easy with warriors in your party; 25k+ requires a good team who can give might and vuln).

Time to ditch your build, and step your game up.

Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand

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Posted by: Mirsa.1628

Mirsa.1628

I like having rangers on my dungeon tours. Frost spirit and spotter, yo.

[GS] Gun Squad
Guild Master

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Posted by: kyubi.3620

kyubi.3620

Mind explaining me something? i run Meditation guardian 10 0 30 30 0 and its actualy suposed to be somewhat close to top possible damage. Prety much the only class i cant manage to get big numbers with however and god knows im full zerker so why oh god why i cant manage to crit foe with a greatsword spin for more then 6k total without buff, da hell my warrior can hurts more then that without even running pure damage! Maybe its because i dont have might stack and perma fury or food but im still curious as to why i cant at least get 10k+ unbuffed with spins while warrior deals more from average spells..

PS: i aint trying for a support guardian im looking for maximum dps guardian so wich spec is it -_-

Your crit chance is trash, you missing out on about 25% damage modifiers at the very least, and 49% on the higher end of damage modifiers if you go BD.

Swap to 20/25/0/0/25, with full zerker scholar, and in scale 80 dungeons vs bosses, you should always hit over 10k. Using your own vuln applications plus having the enemy burn, will have you easily hit over 10k(generally hitting 19k is easy with warriors in your party; 25k+ requires a good team who can give might and vuln).

Time to ditch your build, and step your game up.

Guess theres no point to run medi heal if it cant ditch the damage to begin with (why did these fools even put the critical damage in the valor line in the first place.

Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
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Posted by: TurtleDragon.3108

TurtleDragon.3108

Non bearbow rangers are great in speed runs.

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Posted by: Nikaido.3457

Nikaido.3457

Guess theres no point to run medi heal if it cant ditch the damage to begin with (why did these fools even put the critical damage in the valor line in the first place.

They aren’t fools for putting the crit damage stats in there. Consider this : guardians, even without investing a single point in the crit damage trait line, can reach a very high level of dps. That’s because the guardian’s base damage is very high. If you had crit damage in radiance or zeal that would make the class more overpowered than it already is.
And the way the valor line is built is perfectly fine for a more survivable PVP damage build. Things like gaining fury while casting meditation is of no use in a party that already has enough fury in PVE, but it makes sense in PVP. Valor has great synergy for the builds that can make use of it but none of them are for PVE.

The most foolish trait line in my opinion for guardians is zeal. It has absolutely nonsensical traits like Kindled Zeal. As if there could ever be such a thing as a condition guardian. Must make them burning guardians happy. All three of them.

- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”

(edited by Nikaido.3457)

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Posted by: Cake Tasty.2408

Cake Tasty.2408

Apart from the groups that explicitly say no rangers, I’ve never had any problem joining these parties.

I even once had a party where there was another frost spirit/spotter ranger, I retraited.

I’ve not met a bad ranger running that setup (although there are the occasional plummet off cliffs to deaths).

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Posted by: Pip.2094

Pip.2094

They qualify depending on their build. What makes common masses think they are bad, while warriors are gods, is that a MM necro or a bearbow ranger is easy to spot. Unless you check gear and ask for traits, you can’t know how many cleric guardians, shout-heal warriors are out there. And I assure you, you would be shocked if you went deep into this.
Ran a CoF p1 with 2 necros and 1 ranger in team, didn’t take longer than 7 minutes. Ran a CoF p1 with 2 more thieves and 2 warriors in team, we failed last boss 3 times, being I alone, more dps than all of them together.

\||||||/
O°v°O

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Posted by: Saint.5647

Saint.5647

Yeah it really depends. Crappy players are crappy players.

I main a guard so bad guards are easiest for me to spot. I am generally skeptical of rangers for a lot of the stigma around them but I will not suffer a staff guardian to be.

Clerics gear? Kick.
Staff alt? Kick.
Light fields? Kick.
No reflects? Kick.
Hogging virtues? Kick.

etc…. So basically the same should be true of all classes. I am sure there is a list of absurd things that good rangers get ticked about as well.

Basically, police your teams and keep this trash out of good speed runs!

One True God
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Posted by: Fext.3614

Fext.3614

It’s the common elitism known from many MMO games, namely WoW. However in WoW they usualy kick you after seeing your equipment or dps parser – in GW2 the elitists have no effective means how to sort the players, so they kick you based on your class or ap. Despite the ANet intent to prevent this, they actualy made it even worse…
So if you want to join speedruns, roll a warrior, stack, wear zerker + gs, spam gs#2 + one banner, and you are fine. Oh and roll from AOEs.

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Posted by: Fext.3614

Fext.3614

What makes common masses think they are bad, while warriors are gods, is that a MM necro or a bearbow ranger is easy to spot.

Nope. Not that they are easy to spot – they just exclude all rangers and necros. They would never see if you have a bear or a cat – once they see the ranger icon you are kicked. Even if you join as a ranger and want to relog to war, you are not given enough time to explain that.
And what makes you and the other think that the evil bow rangers, and shout heal warriors are really that bad? Theorycrafting, forum flamewars, some misguided pseudotests?

What exactly makes 30/10/0/30/0 warrior worse than the other builds? Or the lb ranger? Prejudice. Somebody somewhere said these are bad.

I say we need that bloody dps parser. Then they can kick my ranger for doing low dps, but at least it will be based on some sound facts…

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Posted by: Saint.5647

Saint.5647

What makes common masses think they are bad, while warriors are gods, is that a MM necro or a bearbow ranger is easy to spot.

Nope. Not that they are easy to spot – they just exclude all rangers and necros. They would never see if you have a bear or a cat – once they see the ranger icon you are kicked. Even if you join as a ranger and want to relog to war, you are not given enough time to explain that.
And what makes you and the other think that the evil bow rangers, and shout heal warriors are really that bad? Theorycrafting, forum flamewars, some misguided pseudotests?

What exactly makes 30/10/0/30/0 warrior worse than the other builds? Or the lb ranger? Prejudice. Somebody somewhere said these are bad.

I say we need that bloody dps parser. Then they can kick my ranger for doing low dps, but at least it will be based on some sound facts…

I hope they do add the DPS meter. No where for bads to hide then. No more weak arguments for them to rally behind.

What makes certain builds better? What makes anything better? It’s relativity. Better in relation to X. So, since this is the dungeon sub-forum, “better” is determined by how efficiently the build and gear enables the player and their team to clear the dungeon.

So yes, shoutheals and bearbows are objectively worse for dungeon clears. I wouldn’t kick someone for being a ranger, but the second they start spouting off about bows and healing shout builds, I would. I just do not have the time to mess with that and I don’t have the desire to argue with every person who plays how they want.

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Posted by: Guanglai Kangyi.4318

Guanglai Kangyi.4318

The best thing to do is just make the party yourself (ideally with one friend) and advertise “LFG full zerk only, DPS traits and gear, ping gear on join” and just kick anyone who doesn’t ping within 30 seconds of so. Then once the dungeon gets started kick everyone you see not running DPS.

It usually works out pretty well cause it gives you an excuse to kick everyone that joins after each fight until you get to the last boss (because pugs never run DPS), then you can just duo the boss and sell the open slots and be totally justified in doing so. It’s free gold and it’s also hilarious.

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Posted by: frifox.5283

frifox.5283

I did a pug run with 3warriors/1ele/1mes last night. Everyone was zerk geared (I checked). Our party DPS was averaging around 15k/sec – 20k/sec. Then, the other day we did a proper guildie run consisting of 1war/1ele/1mes/1ranger/1thief. Our DPS was consistently ticking at 35k/sec to 45k/sec. As soon as we dropped TW and FGS’s that dps went off the charts.

Being a zerk does not mean you’ll be dishing out mad deeps without trying. It all comes down to you knowing how play your stupid class. Of course, warrior is the easiest to play reasonably well (axe 111111111111) which is exactly why they’re the most popular profession in pug “speedruns”.

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Posted by: Fext.3614

Fext.3614

What makes certain builds better? What makes anything better? It’s relativity. Better in relation to X. So, since this is the dungeon sub-forum, “better” is determined by how efficiently the build and gear enables the player and their team to clear the dungeon.

You don’t understand – I was asking what criterion you use to say X is better than Y.
Are we talking raw standing damage when stacked at boss, with a proven guard protecting the party members, who are used to work together? Are we talking a pug where the guard can be missing or unreliable?
Is the succesfull run the fastest or smoothest?

Anyway we are diverging from the original thread, so lets discuss it here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/which-war-would-you-team-for-fotm-dung/first#post3552105

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Posted by: Fext.3614

Fext.3614

Our DPS was consistently ticking at 35k/sec to 45k/sec. As soon as we dropped TW and FGS’s that dps went off the charts.

How do you measure that dps?

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Posted by: animalmom.1062

animalmom.1062

For Guardians, you mentioned some bad traits. I main a thief which is pretty straightforward but have a guardian alt.

You said “hogging virtues, wrong utilities etc”. Can you please tell what you want out of Guardians (I have full zerker gear for the guard) – what you dont want them to do?

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Posted by: Saint.5647

Saint.5647

For Guardians, you mentioned some bad traits. I main a thief which is pretty straightforward but have a guardian alt.

You said “hogging virtues, wrong utilities etc”. Can you please tell what you want out of Guardians (I have full zerker gear for the guard) – what you dont want them to do?

Yeah I did toss a few out there that always draw my attention. So the virtue hogging is when Guardians sit on their virtues on passive.

This is a huge tell of either a very, very lazy player (who is likely just spamming 1), or a very unskilled player who just bought the gear to look the part. A good Guard is spamming VoJ as often as possible. Blinds in general are a great damage mitigation and since it can matter in a run, Aegis is very useful to run too. I see many guards fail to use either Aegis either around the team or for the team.

A good guardian will keep track of the team’s Aegis status when they know a big hit is coming up. Is the boss about to drop some huge damage? Throw up an Aegis so that the party’s DPS chains can continue un-interupted. I think some Guardians selfishly hog them because they feel they personally need them all. You really shouldn’t need them at all and just use them for the good of the team. See zerking is all about the team spirit

Reflects are of course a huge part of playing a guard. Now sure there are some trash mobs not even worth tying your shoes for but for anything else (that has some sort of projectile attack), there is wall of reflection. This is pretty much a must for any guardian. On a similar note, it’s also your job to cleanse conditions. Virtue of Resolve is a condi cleanse to keep your eye on. Check your party’s conditions from time to time just like you’re looking for big hits to Aegis.

You know, they say to not play the UI, but to an extent you should. If your Mes is stacked with bleeds or something, why not take that pressure off of him/her? You can also cleanse with a fire field which is great in a stack because you will get might from it.

A good thing to not do would be to spam attacking for no reason. Alternate between S/F and GS for the burst. Don’t drop light fields for no reason, just to put down an attack. You will destroy the blasts for might and probably tick off any halfway decent eles you have.

Just because you’re in zerk doesn’t mean you can’t be a horrible player. People buy Ferraris all the time and drive like trash. Camping staff in all zerker gear spamming 1, ruining might with light field, and hitting #4, is terrible. You are doing nothing (if not actually negative impact).

So what can you do with the staff? Well, if you have a team that doesn’t blast, go ahead and #4 right before combat. Don’t keep it on you though. Either #4 right before the fight, and then drop a line of warding to LoS but swap out back to your GS. Good for running too :P

Anyways, check out Obal’s builds on youtube. He has done a lot for Guardians and they are way more detailed than this post will be

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

I did a pug run with 3warriors/1ele/1mes last night. Everyone was zerk geared (I checked). Our party DPS was averaging around 15k/sec – 20k/sec. Then, the other day we did a proper guildie run consisting of 1war/1ele/1mes/1ranger/1thief. Our DPS was consistently ticking at 35k/sec to 45k/sec. As soon as we dropped TW and FGS’s that dps went off the charts.

Being a zerk does not mean you’ll be dishing out mad deeps without trying. It all comes down to you knowing how play your stupid class. Of course, warrior is the easiest to play reasonably well (axe 111111111111) which is exactly why they’re the most popular profession in pug “speedruns”.

I agree it’s important to know damage rotations and etc. It is also important to take into account damage modifiers off traits, scholar runes and all accessories and weapon set choices, including sigils such as force and night. Simply getting some pugs in ‘zerker’ with ruby orbs, poor weapons choices, no food or 10% potion buff, don’t stack any might pre-fights with traits all over the place and endure pain in their utility bar is not going to yield optimal damage. I find the best way to go about pugs is to gear check more thoroughly. Scholar runes, accessories and correct weapons sets can often yield better pugs.

(edited by J Eberle.9312)

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Posted by: Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Chewablesleeptablet.3185

my full zerker ranger has the same dps as a full zerker warrior. sword/warhorn. Utilities: frost spirit, quickening zephyr, sun spirit, rampage as one.
Pet: Melandru Stalker /Drake
I can destroy the gate controller in Cof P1 with these specs in less than 6 seconds. So yah a ranger does splendid DPS and still has the survivability.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

my full zerker ranger has the same dps as a full zerker warrior. sword/warhorn. Utilities: frost spirit, quickening zephyr, sun spirit, rampage as one.
Pet: Melandru Stalker /Drake
I can destroy the gate controller in Cof P1 with these specs in less than 6 seconds. So yah a ranger does splendid DPS and still has the survivability.

Burst damage and DPS are two different things.

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Posted by: J Eberle.9312

J Eberle.9312

The problem is – pugging.

When you pug, most rangers are completely awful, bearbows, people thinking they are super pro dps with GS autos and pig pets, etc. They’re just not even worth taking unless you are gonna gear check them and ask if they are spotter/frost because chances are they are a complete waste of a slot. Also Sic’ Em is much better than sun spirit.

(edited by J Eberle.9312)

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Posted by: Iris Ng.9845

Iris Ng.9845

When I run Fractals, I don’t PUG guards. If I cannot find a friend to play guard, I’d rather not play at all. My LFG is always “Zerker+Scholar Rune+in Meta. Gear check or Kick. Level XX”. When someone joins, I always ask to ping Armor + all the Weps + Trinket. My friend and I interview them about their builds and their rotations. It takes more or less 30 mins to get the group ready, but the fractals usually go very smoothly. People who do not fail my expectation are now in my friend list, so I can organize a group with them from time to time. For the records, there are about two rangers and two thieves.

If LFG is hard for Rangers and Necro, start organizing your own LFG then make them into your frequent contacts. If you are really good, they will always answer your call.

“Raids are like fortune cookies. You eat the cookie and then read the paper scraps.”

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Posted by: frifox.5283

frifox.5283

Our DPS was consistently ticking at 35k/sec to 45k/sec. As soon as we dropped TW and FGS’s that dps went off the charts.

How do you measure that dps?

Do a Google search for gw2dps, it’s on github

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Posted by: Pip.2094

Pip.2094

What makes common masses think they are bad, while warriors are gods, is that a MM necro or a bearbow ranger is easy to spot.

Nope. Not that they are easy to spot – they just exclude all rangers and necros. They would never see if you have a bear or a cat – once they see the ranger icon you are kicked. Even if you join as a ranger and want to relog to war, you are not given enough time to explain that.
And what makes you and the other think that the evil bow rangers, and shout heal warriors are really that bad? Theorycrafting, forum flamewars, some misguided pseudotests?

What exactly makes 30/10/0/30/0 warrior worse than the other builds? Or the lb ranger? Prejudice. Somebody somewhere said these are bad.

I say we need that bloody dps parser. Then they can kick my ranger for doing low dps, but at least it will be based on some sound facts…

I didn’t say these builds are bad, but this post is about speedruns you may have failed to notice. How lower the dps of these builds are, compared to zerker?
I know that they will kick before giving the chance to even prove that you have a good build, what I clearly meant was, that due to people who run so commonly with bad builds and are so easy to spot, people get to think that every ranger must have that bad build so kick. I play a ranger, full zerker, melee only. I won’t receive a better treatment than any bearbow ranger because most of people don’t even know that ranger can be good, increase team dmg (less than warriors) and bring some good. They will just think the ranger will spam #1 autoattack from 1500 range while is endless-hp-pool bear will cause the boss to run all the way around the room instead of stacking with the rest.

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Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: thomasgjkgwdn.4760

thomasgjkgwdn.4760

…is there even a set definition for “speedrun”, other than “as fast as possible”? it doesn’t boil down to just profession composition. player skill matter, and obv. specific setup (traits, gear) does too. why some people insist on living in the illusion of “one constellation to rule them all” is beyond me. plenty of RNG around for even the “best” group to lose oh so precious dungeon speed.

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: Izaya.2906

Izaya.2906

About a week ago I had an lfg up for full pug team- any class zerk+ scholar only. A necro joined and pinged his gear, it checked out. It was just a quick run of AC so I was like yeh sure. We get in, the dps is pretty subpar vs most of my selective pug runs.. I figured whatever. At hodjin’s first burrows this guy did absolutely nothing, so we just sent an extra guy to the side he was on. At Kholer he got in the way with his huge lich form and people couldn’t see my wall so they stood in front of it and died. Throughout P1 and 2 paths, the dps was just bleh, I’d say we spent about 3-4 mins more than we had to. On P2 he struggled with protecting the mortars at the end, things just weren’t dieing quickly and he was fearing them away from where I wanted them meaning I had to exhaust pulls where I wanted to save them and people could not get their cleaves as often. After p2, he left and I replaced him with a warrior. Things became smoother, spider queen took about a third longer with the necro vs the warrior replacement.

Sure you can take them, but they offer no real offensive or defensive support past control skills that nobody really wants. I prefer a properly geared and traited pug ranger over a properly geared and traited necro. They offer more. I think the only class I 100% turn down are guardians, even with the correct gear, they either fail their traits or fail at using their utilities and virtues correctly.

Him using lich form is the tell that he doesn’t know the class well/running best damage for the situation. It’s the basic stuff like this that gets necros kicked eventhough they have full zerk gear.

If you’re against a wall like Spider Queen/Kholer flesh golem active skill does alot more damage(kinda like FGS but not same numbers), plus more damage on the burrows part too.

For rangers just simply asking if they’re bringing spotter & traited frost spirit and if they keep quiet or say no they get kicked.

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Chewablesleeptablet.3185

my full zerker ranger has the same dps as a full zerker warrior. sword/warhorn. Utilities: frost spirit, quickening zephyr, sun spirit, rampage as one.
Pet: Melandru Stalker /Drake
I can destroy the gate controller in Cof P1 with these specs in less than 6 seconds. So yah a ranger does splendid DPS and still has the survivability.

Burst damage and DPS are two different things.

I am still able to do equal dps. So yah basically I am saying I have both the burst and DPS capability of a warrior with my ranger.

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: Hayashi.3416

Hayashi.3416

To answer the OP’s question: Condition rangers and necros can both breach 5000 dps before might effects, but take about 4-5 seconds to set this up so they’re not very useful on trash mobs. You can take a necro, you can take a ranger, but never take both at the same time (or more than 1) as they’ll cancel each other out if they’re both conditioners, and they will have subpar DPS if they’re not conditioners because the attacks on their weapons either have bad power multipliers, do not Cleave, or both.

Ranger swords only have a 1.9 multiplier on autoattack per 1.8 seconds by the way, and max power builds only can add 20% damage ish in ideal circumstances with Steady Focus and Scholar runes. That is, 1.27 multiplier per second. Warriors on the other hand running GS for skill 2 and 3, then using the Adrenaline to Eviscerate followed by axe autoattacks, have 5.0 multiplier per 3.6 seconds on autoattacks, and greater ratios during the GS 2|3 phases. They can also get up to 48% damage from traits plus the Scholar rune, for a total of 2.06 multiplier per second. To say that you can match a warrior shows no understanding whatsoever of damage calculations; for the same power level warriors do 62% more direct damage, but axe,x|greatsword warriors actually will have a greater power level because crits on the greatsword during the 2-3 phase give Might, whereas the Ranger version only mights the pet.

It’s fine to play whatever you like in whatever way you like, the game is easy enough for that; but don’t go insisting on something in a min/maxing topic that can be mathematically proven false.

NEVER use the word ‘experienced’ or ‘exp’. New players think ‘exp’ is ‘explorable’ as they have no idea what the p1p2p3 thing is about yet. ‘Experienced’ attracts bad players who are hoping to get carried since it’s sometimes hard to detect the fail in a group with 4 pros when everything’s dying fast anyway. More than 4 times out of 5 I join a team with the word ‘experienced’ in it, my damage surpasses any 2 of them added together, and they still get downed in spite of having no damage output.

Normally I word it as, for instance, ‘CoFp1 speedrun’. It works almost all the time. My support/WvW Com guardian is always on standby for the occasional 4 dps team of bads who can’t stay alive, but otherwise I don’t generally use the guardian because its heal is way too high, and its damage is way too low for content that easy.

(edited by Hayashi.3416)

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: guanlongwucaii.3162

guanlongwucaii.3162

my full zerker ranger has the same dps as a full zerker warrior. sword/warhorn. Utilities: frost spirit, quickening zephyr, sun spirit, rampage as one.
Pet: Melandru Stalker /Drake
I can destroy the gate controller in Cof P1 with these specs in less than 6 seconds. So yah a ranger does splendid DPS and still has the survivability.

Burst damage and DPS are two different things.

I am still able to do equal dps. So yah basically I am saying I have both the burst and DPS capability of a warrior with my ranger.

6s is pretty bad and I’m pretty sure a warrior can easily outdo that. frenzy rush-hb-whirl should finish it. of course none can compare to eles/thieves, though I’ve never seen eles instakill like thieves can

sun spirit is also a useless utility skill.

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

my full zerker ranger has the same dps as a full zerker warrior. sword/warhorn. Utilities: frost spirit, quickening zephyr, sun spirit, rampage as one.
Pet: Melandru Stalker /Drake
I can destroy the gate controller in Cof P1 with these specs in less than 6 seconds. So yah a ranger does splendid DPS and still has the survivability.

Burst damage and DPS are two different things.

I am still able to do equal dps. So yah basically I am saying I have both the burst and DPS capability of a warrior with my ranger.

I’m calling your bluff. Show me that they have equal DPS.

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: Anierna.6918

Anierna.6918

6s is pretty bad and I’m pretty sure a warrior can easily outdo that. frenzy rush-hb-whirl should finish it. of course none can compare to eles/thieves, though I’ve never seen eles instakill like thieves can

I Fiery Rush it. Insta-kill.

It helps that I started to stack power like crazy instead of trying to balance with prec, in preparation for the crit dmg nerf.

(edited by Anierna.6918)

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: guanlongwucaii.3162

guanlongwucaii.3162

6s is pretty bad and I’m pretty sure a warrior can easily outdo that. frenzy rush-hb-whirl should finish it. of course none can compare to eles/thieves, though I’ve never seen eles instakill like thieves can

I Fiery Rush it. Insta-kill.

I’ve seen fiery rush + blink. Fast but not comparable to thieves that I’ve seen in some videos like the old DnT COF P1 record.

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Yeah fiery rush doesnt tick fast enough to beat a good thief. But its an easy way to do it faster than most classes.

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: Tachii.3506

Tachii.3506

The important bit to note is that when you pug, you go in knowing you’ll have bad players. For warriors and guardians and eles, they could be awful players but their DPS and contributions will be better than an awful necro or ranger. Too many times I’ve seen rangers just ranges without spotter or spirit. And a few times where I’ve seen spotter, they still ranges stuff so the people who melees don’t even get the buff. Then there’s the necros which are condition-specced but in a dungeon with structural fights immune to conditions. CoFp2, SEp3, HotWp1, to name a few.

The same could be said for awful players like engineers and thieves though, but there isn’t enough engineers that commonly do dungeons and thieves also require minimal skills when they can just spam blind fields and pistol whip.

SBI – Thief and the occasional Guardian & Warrior.

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: Bumbler.7581

Bumbler.7581

6s is pretty bad and I’m pretty sure a warrior can easily outdo that. frenzy rush-hb-whirl should finish it. of course none can compare to eles/thieves, though I’ve never seen eles instakill like thieves can

I Fiery Rush it. Insta-kill.

I’ve seen fiery rush + blink. Fast but not comparable to thieves that I’ve seen in some videos like the old DnT COF P1 record.

What is the rotation exactly for the gate? Pre-stack might, thieves guild, CnD, backstab, assassins signet, auto, HS, HS?

In Chancery (Jade Quarry, NA) – The Instance Mesmer
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Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: guanlongwucaii.3162

guanlongwucaii.3162

6s is pretty bad and I’m pretty sure a warrior can easily outdo that. frenzy rush-hb-whirl should finish it. of course none can compare to eles/thieves, though I’ve never seen eles instakill like thieves can

I Fiery Rush it. Insta-kill.

I’ve seen fiery rush + blink. Fast but not comparable to thieves that I’ve seen in some videos like the old DnT COF P1 record.

What is the rotation exactly for the gate? Pre-stack might, thieves guild, CnD, backstab, assassins signet, auto, HS, HS?

I don’t know myself, I’m a kitten thief

Can Ranger/Necs qualify for LFG "Speedrun"

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Posted by: World War III.3869

World War III.3869

I hope they do add the DPS meter. No where for bads to hide then. No more weak arguments for them to rally behind.

word.

(edited by World War III.3869)