Guild Wars 2

I’ve been mostly a solo player since launch (it’s how I played GW1 as well) but I finally decided to start trying out the dungeons and such. And everybody wants to “stack” for everything. Almost every encounter, part leads will demand that everyone stacks tight and get stuff done. At first I figured it was just one of those meta-game tactics that I just didn’t understand, but it continues to make no sense to me.

I can’t dodge anything, so every AoE thrown at me or a party member hits everyone in the party. I can’t see (therefore, can’t strategize), because the screen glitches out when I stack tight: if I move so I can see, I get yelled at and told to stack tighter.

This strategy seems to work a select few times, but not often. Most of the time, as a Guardian, I have to set myself to a full healing build and spam my elite to keep the party from spiking to 0 instantly. But that only lasts for so long. My parties rarely put out enough DPS to survive in a stack until we get beaten to a pulp.

There are a few cases (such as a boss or two in Orr) where stacking seemed to work, but even then it seemed to work better when it was “pseudo-stacking” and we all stayed closed, but not standing still and not moving.

So maybe my parties just suck or something (hard to tell: don’t party up much) but it’s kind of frustrating. Only had one good party that seemed to make it work.

So could someone explain the actual benefits to me? All I can figure out is that it’s easier for everyone to rez a downed party member, you’re guaranteed that AoE buffs will reach every party member, and enemies that come close will get hit by all AoE attacks of every played. The downside is that this is all true for the enemies as well, so it usually results in party-wide knock downs, conditions, and spike damage.

EDIT: I switched to healing after several attempts and the party getting spiked to death multiple times in a row. It was a last ditch effort and didn’t work anyways. Probably were just bad groups, because the entire parties would spike within seconds to zero except me because I was a guardian and had plenty of blocks and aegis, etc.

>Uses Healing Build
>Complains about partiy’s low dps
???

There’s also an excellent explanation on stacking in the stickied FAQ by Maxinion. I think it may help.

Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Forum-FAQ/first

Cotser.7015:

>Uses Healing Build
>Complains about partiy’s low dps
???

How very insightful. I had to switch to healing because they kept getting spiked otherwise, leaving me last man standing. I was DPS before that. I didn’t want to ditch because I felt bad, so I stuck around and tried to keep them alive.

EDIT:
That description you gave me, Lilith, makes sense. I think, though, that people always assume it’s the best solution to everything whether or not they actually know how / where / when to do it. And most people, out of fear of looking like idiots, just follow along. Because it only worked when I had a fantastic party one time, and has been disastrous otherwise.

Stacking works best if there’s enough dps, some method of crowd control, and you still do have to dodge during stacking. It’s a bit harder to see when everyone is pressed together so that takes time to learn, mostly watch out for the telling sign of boss hit- I still have yet to master this.

Stack is beneficial because it allows quick rez if someone gets downed, the boons, and support utilities that has range. It can reduce AOE bursts on certain bosses, but if your group doesn’t have enough dps as a whole, then it probably won’t work. Also running a healway guard in a part of five man team is probably part of the reason for your problem. You are not contributing to dps; therefore, you are actually hurting them by doing this. Try a more offensive build or even the hammer build if you feel that your group needs that extra support.

Stacking works best when everyone is doing DPS + control (aegis + blinds), since that way you can kill things before they get to you. Since you’re running a healing build, your party is already at 80% of possible DPS, and since likely everyone is isn’t full zerker either, you’re probably at a much lower total percentage.

When DPS is low, stacking can be hard, since you’ll run out of aegis + blinds + heals + dodges before the mobs are dead, and then you’ll all die.

The solution is to raise DPS (the approach of most people on this forum) or don’t stack.

Thanks to Lilith for pointing out the FAQ on this— I tried to outline there the advantages of stacking/LOS, but it really does work best with DPS oriented groups.

Edit: ++ to lazy as well, good points.

Skilled players won’t need a healer to keep them alive.

Lindbur.2537:

Skilled players won’t need a healer to keep them alive.

I couldn’t keep them alive anyways. Everyone still died. I think they might have just been bad pugs. But they still wanted to stack for some reason, even though they seemed to have no idea how. One group had us stack on top of a hard to reach rock in the middle of a room (bad idea, and the wrong stack point for that part.) Everyone kept falling off due to knock backs and had to crawl their way up, but then usually died trying to get back and or the party on top of the rock had mostly died. After most people were dead, I left the rock. It was pretty dumb.

Ok, so you’re a guardian… mm, I’d like you to read this. It’ll help.

P.S. You should be spamming F1 and other blinds.. putting up your wall of reflection.. when in doubt do it, because it can be a combo finisher to melee. Also if you use whirl of wrath, it’s an extra condi cleanser. Use of stability (Stand your Ground is my fav and I usually have that on my bar) in many part of dungeons due to knockbacks. Aegis at appropriate times (this takes a long time to master and it goes in part with watching the boss’s telling move) If traited, you can use F2 as condi cleanser. Watch your party left bar.. if you see your party having tons of conditions, pop it or if they are low on health, I use it. If you want to be a great guard, then learn to switch out utilities in between.

For crowd control, It’s greatsword 5 for the pull. I do believe mesmer has more utilties for that.. but you can use that to pull a mob towards you. Very useful thing to have.

I never tried the hammer build but I have been in teams with a hammer guardian. I think you should try that one.

If you want to help a stack to not die, you sharpen the knife, not bring some mini tools (healing). That is, you go for max DPS build.

Nevertheless, that’s not the end of the story. Just because people are stacking doesn’t mean that they’re playing the toons right.

It’s still terrible if a Guardian stacks and ends-up AA-ing in staff (I hope that’s not you).

Tai Kratos.3247:

Lindbur.2537:

Skilled players won’t need a healer to keep them alive.

I couldn’t keep them alive anyways. Everyone still died. I think they might have just been bad pugs. But they still wanted to stack for some reason, even though they seemed to have no idea how. One group had us stack on top of a hard to reach rock in the middle of a room (bad idea, and the wrong stack point for that part.) Everyone kept falling off due to knock backs and had to crawl their way up, but then usually died trying to get back and or the party on top of the rock had mostly died. After most people were dead, I left the rock. It was pretty dumb.

Well to be honest.. that’s your fault.. you have group wide stabilities.. why didn’t you use them to help your group out? You could have used retreat to help them to get to the rock. It’s probably not the optimal time to use it but if you see your group having difficulties reaching something.. that would help.

High DPS (zerk) teams stacking cannot be beaten. Your group(s) was(were) bad.

By stacking, conditions/damage is contained entirely and often bosses’ AoE mechanics don’t allow them to drop their circles/casts all at the same place, or the location (LOS) doesn’t allow the boss to drop AoE at all (see AC, CoE).

You are not the first or the last to complain about it, but while it does seem counter-intuitive, please trust those of us who have been playing a while. It works. <3

Moyeu.1729:

or the location (LOS) doesn’t allow the boss to drop AoE at all (see AC, CoE).

and remember kids. you are not allowed to move at lupi because bubble!

Yea because people don’t understand what is stacking and how it works. They just saw the cool kids doing it and tried to copy it. Just look at every complain about stacking being an exploit. None of those people really get what stacking is about and they assume it has a magic power of making everything easier somehow, like outright canceling boss mechanics.
Sometimes it’s advantageous to stack. Sometimes it isn’t. The worst are the AC pugs who stack in the dumbest places possible like the weird Kholer one where you can’t see crap or in p2 trap phase where not a single mob is los-ed properly and they just stay there watching how they get ranged to death, god forbid they move around the pillar.

What you’re experiencing is what I would call the “meta trickledown effect” This happens in just about every multiplayer online game with any level of depth.

1. The pros of the game analyze everything, do math, and figure out the effectiveness of a particular strategy.
2. The people who pay attention to the pros realize the genius of the idea and adopt it. These people have enough skill and understanding of the game to make it work.
3. Those people are seen using it, so more people assume that’s what you’re supposed to do and start trying it.
4. Eventually it’s considered “just what you’re supposed to do” and people without the understanding why or the skill to back it up still attempt to utilize it and fail miserably.
5. Other people enter in on these failed attempts and can’t understand why it’s considered the “best strategy”

Personally, I feel that newcomers to dungeons need to discover for themselves why berserker gear, LoSing and stacking are effective. I know I had to discover just how drastic the number difference was (500% or more overall DPS between Berserker and Sentinel), not to mention I had to develop the skill to dodge all the attacks with less HP and toughness. It requires a level of skill, and newcomers just don’t have that level of skill and shouldn’t attempt it until they are extremely familiar with the game’s mechanics.

Stacking only works if your party is using blinds, and your guardians are using aegis. Also, you can still dodge while stacking. If you dodge into the corner/wall you still evade attacks, but you don’t move out of place. Stacking doesn’t stop you from getting damage, it actually makes you more vulnerable. That’s why you need the blocks and blinds.

Stacking all mobs is just a faster way of doing things. Stacking behind a corner makes all ranged enemies move into melee range. Essentially stacking all enemies close together for an easy kill. Also, attacks like warrior Whirlwind attack and elementalist Fiery Greatsword do a lot more damage when used against a wall.

Stacking has the following advantages:

1. It allows everybody to be in close proximity to benefit from things like a Guardian’s Aegis, Might stacks from blasts in fire fields, group healing from blasts in Water fields etc.

2. It bunches up multiple enemies close together, enabling cleave weapons (like swords, greatswords, hammers etc.) to deal their maximum damage output, and also lessen the time it takes to kill all enemies as opposed to tackling them one by one.

3. Certain bosses will not use some skills if everybody is in close proximity to them. A good example is the Spider Queen in Ascalonian Catacombs, who will not use her AoE poison spit if everybody is in melee range. Stacking can therefore serve as a defense against certain enemies.

The downside to stacking is that if the players aren’t good at keeping themselves alive at the same time, one mistake can lead to a lot of people getting downed, and thus a situation where a wipe is highly likely. I have seen PUGs where stacks worked, but only by the skin of their teeth.

The best stacks come when the party composition includes one or more characters who also build damage mitigation into their builds. For example, my Ele uses Glyph of Storms in Earth Attunement to cause mass Blinds. (Even better, it isn’t counted as a field in itself, so the rest of the party can continue to stack Might in fire fields during the initial duration.) After the Sandstorm fades, if we still need more damage mitigation, I drop Radiation Field for non-stop Weakness. (Although this counts as a Poison field, so I save it as my secondary option.) I also throw in Water fields as and when needed, but switch back to Fire or Earth for damage.

Here this should explain stacking really well, it also explains why all pugs do it wrong, there is also a male version, but most parties are full of females so i guess its a more accurate representation of what it looks like.

RemiRome.8495:

and remember kids. you are not allowed to move at lupi because bubble!

If only that was true.

Stacking if used right is one of the most powerful stategy.

But like almost everything in any game. If something work, people will do it without knowing everything and eventually they will be in a group when most of the party if not all of it will do it without knowing why and really how do it. They will do what they do all the time, but this time there is no guardian to put aegis at the right moment, or noboby to pull the boss the rigth way, etc. And so the party will wipe and some member of the group will be mean. ‘’We wipe because of someone else, it can’t be me I did the same thing as i always do and it always work, so this must be some other people in the party that kitten it up. They are probably not full zerker, these kitten.’’

And usually this person is full zerker, but have a AH build or something like that and don’t really understand what meta is. They are great follower, but lack a lot of polish on their game.

For exemple. When you want to kill the champion wolf at CoE. You need to stack on the corner and wait for the NPC to aggro the champion. You need to check the ground below the npc, then the wolf will attack the will do a ice attack, then an attack that make crack on the ground. You need to aggro him right after that. That way he wasted his big blank point aoe and you aggro him right away so you can DPS him as much as possible before his next Blank point aoe. If you have enough DPS you will down him before he can do nothing else.

But some people that think they know dungeon and full zerker ftw, will either aggro him before he waste his AoE, so the party will probable wipe except like 1 or 2 that will rez everybody or they won’t see when the party don’t have enough DPS and they need to get out of stack before the next Blank Point AoE.

This problem is everywhere. People stack without knowing how you really doing it. Like at AC spider. Most people just stand there and DPS the boss. It work well, when you can down it in a couple of second. But if you can’t, you can time yourself and move around the pillar a little bit so you don’t stand in the spider big attack that immobilize you.

haviz.1340:

RemiRome.8495:

and remember kids. you are not allowed to move at lupi because bubble!

If only that was true.

Yep, hear that one a lot now that all pugs are lupi melee pro’s.

laharl.8435:

haviz.1340:

RemiRome.8495:

and remember kids. you are not allowed to move at lupi because bubble!

If only that was true.

Yep, hear that one a lot now that all pugs are lupi melee pro’s.

It’s funny because not moving would be worse as they keep pushing him

all
the
kitten
time
.

I find myself strafing around his circle constantly in phase 3, trying to stay away from the lupi adds (pugs).

Lupi has gained a new power (in pugs).

You mention that you can’t avoid AEs. The ones you need to, you can!

Subject Alpha in COE. Does a couple different big AE hits on people. If you’re stacked they will all be in one spot. When you see him toss the circles on the ground, start running into the corner, give it a 1-2 count, then dodge into the corner. You don’t move, but you’ll still see a stream of evades pop out. That’s the tactic you use to really take almost no damage while fighting him if you time it right.

HOTW/AC Troll. He’s another one, do the same thing, get him to a wall/corner so you have something to roll into. When he gets up in the air, do a double roll into the wall. Troll does 2 hits on that special so you need to double evade. Done correctly, just like subject alpha, you can do it taking no real damage.

two bosses that PUGs seem to have issues with, but both are actually very easy to solo once you get the timing of those big hits down.

Then the other way deals with projectiles.

Berserker Fractal boss, if you stack you can take him down super fast as all his AEs are in one spot, and with a reflect wall, all that damage gets bounced back, and just… yeah stacking + Reflect walls = win. One guy goes off away from the stack… suddenly what was a couple second burn is now an actual fight.

Swap Tree Fractal boss, same thing, rotate reflect walls and take an easy win.

Alphard, pull him to the boat/corner thing (could find a video i’m sure) rotate reflections stay stacked, win.

Just thought I’d give a few examples of how you survive these things.

There are some bosses that I don’t like stacking, but most of those are in story modes where it’s a 1 and done dungeon path.

For those times trash pulling, where I can’t really get any good camera angle, I usually just try and keep stability up, that helps so much if any of the attacks knockdown or what not. Sometimes it is a lot of just knowing what you’re going to need, good example is the first hallway in CoE, stability on the first group of 3 right away, burn em, dodge out in case they have a lingering AE ready to crash on your head. move up to next set go into the left wall to get a corner and LoS, stability again (stand your ground) right away, and burn again. With stability, easy peasy no one really gets hurt. Without it, boom crash, dead, dead, dead someone pulls it out before a complete wipe. =)

Jerus.4350:

HOTW/AC Troll. He’s another one, do the same thing, get him to a wall/corner so you have something to roll into. When he gets up in the air, do a double roll into the wall. Troll does 2 hits on that special so you need to double evade. Done correctly, just like subject alpha, you can do it taking no real damage.

One small correction – I had some fun soloing the HotW Troll a couple of times after the update, and if you put him against the wall, you only need to dodge once. You’ll avoid both hits of his leap attack – the landing on the evade frame and the 2nd hit by standing inside of him after you finished the dodge.

Tarug.7369:

Jerus.4350:

HOTW/AC Troll. He’s another one, do the same thing, get him to a wall/corner so you have something to roll into. When he gets up in the air, do a double roll into the wall. Troll does 2 hits on that special so you need to double evade. Done correctly, just like subject alpha, you can do it taking no real damage.

One small correction – I had some fun soloing the HotW Troll a couple of times after the update, and if you put him against the wall, you only need to dodge once. You’ll avoid both hits of his leap attack – the landing on the evade frame and the 2nd hit by standing inside of him after you finished the dodge.

Awesome, thanks for the tip. Makes sense, I’ve screwed up and ran out of energy and not gotten the second hit before, so I must have accidentally done this =). Will be fun trying to replicate that each time.

I don’t think second part even hits when stacked. Could someone try and just tank the hit while on him?