Guild Wars 2

I know what it was before june 23rd…. anyone have or a link to an updated dps tier list? ty

Without icebow single target small hitbox? Engi, thief, ele, (war, guard, ranger, necro(?)), mes?

Sinister Engi
Staff Ele
Power Engi
Thief
Power Guardian
Sinister Ranger
Power Ranger
Sinister Guard
Sinister Warrior
PS/EA Power Warrior
Dps Mesmer
Necro
Reflect heavy mesmer

That’s what I remember to be the damage spreads atm. Only ones Im not sure on are ranger vs guard and mesmer vs Necro warrior since, Both Ranger and Mesmer have a lack of easily find-able dps numbers where the other classes it’s easier to find. With regards to sinister Engi and Ranger they only take that dps slot in longer fights ie over ~20s generally, which is pretty uncommon in this current burst meta so to take their spot with a grain of salt. And Sinister builds while sometimes better lose out on any real use of more burst focused skills like Icebow and Fiery Greatsword which hurts them further.
And the other side note being engineer has a bad case of vacuum bias since while it’s damage is high, it’s much much much harder to pull off than any other set up.

Edit
Some sources:
Obal
DEKeyz
Nike Warrior
Nike Sinister Engineer Quote

I’m absolutely certain that a warrior running scholar runes using strength/arms/discipline instead of tactics and with burst mastery (assuming quickness is outsourced) would decimate power guardian in personal DPS.

Anyways, it’s kinda weird to make personal DPS rankings because there are so many things to take into consideration. DPS in a solo or group setting? Against something basic like a test golem, or what?

Purple Miku.7032:

I’m absolutely certain that a warrior running scholar runes using strength/arms/discipline instead of tactics and with burst mastery (assuming quickness is outsourced) would decimate power guardian in personal DPS.

Anyways, it’s kinda weird to make personal DPS rankings because there are so many things to take into consideration. DPS in a solo or group setting? Against something basic like a test golem, or what?

I don’t have all of the spreadsheets personally so I don’t know exactly which they take into account but from what I understand all of the numbers Dnt put out lack quickness unless otherwise on the build, could be wrong so if you wanted to count higher than normal quickness uptime people move around on the list, Ele probably gaining the most due to the high damage on fireball but that’s more so guessing.
As for the list I gave it’s based off group buffs, ie the numbers dnt generally puts out and that’s generally what people are concerned about but yes it’s not the same across the board for all content or all party sizes, like you sight warrior doesn’t really lose much of anything solo.
The more important thing generally being builds with in a class than class vs class since generally you’re more concerned with the support or control and not always the damage. (paraphrasing Nike)

And I mean no disrespect, in fact I have mad respect for your skill at the game Miku.
Side note being if you want to make a rotation/write up a rotation or point me to one I will gladly eat my words and make the personal note and change what I say to match that which is true, since I don’t really care about being right over others just being helpful.

Purple Miku.7032:

I’m absolutely certain that a warrior running scholar runes using strength/arms/discipline instead of tactics and with burst mastery (assuming quickness is outsourced) would decimate power guardian in personal DPS.

Anyways, it’s kinda weird to make personal DPS rankings because there are so many things to take into consideration. DPS in a solo or group setting? Against something basic like a test golem, or what?

I take your words seriously, but im pretty positive guard will out dps warrior in most situations, but you may know better than I

Azure.8670:

Purple Miku.7032:

I’m absolutely certain that a warrior running scholar runes using strength/arms/discipline instead of tactics and with burst mastery (assuming quickness is outsourced) would decimate power guardian in personal DPS.

Anyways, it’s kinda weird to make personal DPS rankings because there are so many things to take into consideration. DPS in a solo or group setting? Against something basic like a test golem, or what?

I take your words seriously, but im pretty positive guard will out dps warrior in most situations, but you may know better than I

In a group where warrior is running PS/EA yes, where the warrior is running full DPS no.

Xcorpdog.2840:

And I mean no disrespect, in fact I have mad respect for your skill at the game Miku.
Side note being if you want to make a rotation/write up a rotation or point me to one I will gladly eat my words and make the personal note and change what I say to match that which is true, since I don’t really care about being right over others just being helpful.

No worries I know you have good intentions, I was just speaking my mind about something because out of all classes in the june specializations update, warrior was one of the ones that got buffed to the highest extremes. It was in a rough spot as far as personal damage was concerned but now it’s quite high. It’s just that people are comparing the personal DPS of a build that is not optimising personal damage.

Azure.8670:

I take your words seriously, but im pretty positive guard will out dps warrior in most situations, but you may know better than I

Guardians aren’t really all that good for personal damage though… they’re not bad, but they’re not superb either. In groups both guardians and warriors are taking setups that offer the group specific things for the sole purpose of either offensively or defensively supporting allies.

If you want to compare personal DPS, why not compare with their maximum damage output setups?

It just so happens to be the case that the difference between warrior’s maximum damage setup and its standard phalanx build variations that it takes for groups is quite huge. We’re talking difference of being able to weapon swap, being able to use eviscerate, being able to take either burst mastery or heightened focus, having a 5% damage increase from the 6th rune bonus swapping from strength to scholar runes, and gaining an additional 100 ferocity from scholar as well as an additional 180 power from signet of might.

These things are of course, assuming the same party buffs that all the other classes are getting when comparing DPS in parties.

Generally speaking, why would you even compare something arbitrary like personal damage when you aren’t soloing?

Guardian and ranger higher DPS than warrior wat?
And as far as I know sinister engi is only higher dps than power engi on bosses with very high toughness.
On bosses with larger hitboxes, or fights that are under 15 seconds ele is BY FAR the highest dps.

I don’t think picking personal dps builds for every class, but a support build for warrior is fair, since warrior is easily amongs the top 4, if not top 3 personal DPS classes atm.

May I ask where you’ve taken these values from? were they recorded against a target golem or against actual encounters, and if actual encounters, which encounters?
There was a forum post about this a while ago where we tested it against pvp target golems and the dps rankings came out like this:

1. ele
2. warrior
3. engi
4. mesmer (because target golems dont kill phantasms)
5. thief
6. guardian
7. ranger
8. necro

@bladex

your list is about solo dps. The list above is considering a group setup with 25 might, fury and warrior banners active. In a solo setup, professions which can stack might themselves rank higher than in a group setup (that’s why warrior ranks way higher than in a group setup).

People should consider group buffs too. Quick List
Warrior: Banners, PS, EA, Shouts if necessary
Guardian: WoR, Aegis, Stablity, Swiftness
Thief: VArious Stealth skills, highest Frostbow dps, Defiance stripping, Blind fields
Ranger: Spotter, Frost Spirit, Group Swiftness+Regen, strong ranged dps if necessary
Engineer: has nearly every buff in the game, but a bit weaker or in a random elixier variant: Projectile defense, stealth, Stability, Fury, Blind Fields. Hugh amount of immobilizes and CC if necessary
Necromancer: Condi Transfer, Lifesteal Aura, corrupting/removing enemy boons, can facetank. Necro utility isn’t that useful in current dungeons but it may be a thing in raids.
Mesmer: Portal, many reflects, Time Warp (unique Slow condition)
Ele: Icebow, Icebow, Icebow: Also some blinds or vulnerablity with Glyph of Storms, Fury and Might stacking

Ok basically the point I was trying to make is similar to what Wethospu said, but instead of it having to do with solo DPS I just think if you want to compare DPS between the classes you should use their optimal damage builds for comparison.

Even if you don’t play warrior or guardian or mesmer in dungeons for their maximum DPS setups, there’s no point in comparing optimal setups from some classes with suboptimal setups from other classes and then ranking them for damage output.

So for maximum output on warrior, generally speaking this would be it but this is only assuming you’re able to get quickness from allies (mesmer time warp, guardian feel my wrath shout): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJEQNAR3ZjMdmOq7Ee23Z8w2z9BnoO0QRQdjxF8zaX06ZhNAPQAA-TRSBABUcABoU9HzUCe1+jyP80NgiGmFOACAcxCy7JAEA4Agf/93f/93SBExUL-e

If not, then you would take Heightened Focus instead of Burst Mastery. One other thing to mention though is that obviously this would be assuming that the warrior is getting buffs from another warrior in the group to make use of this setup, which means the banner in this link is redundant. It just so happens to be the case that everything else is too lol.

If you want to compare support builds, just remove 25% from everyone else’s DPS and give it to the support warrior.

Wethospu.6437:

If you want to compare support builds, just remove 25% from everyone else’s DPS and give it to the support warrior.

But necro would still have higher dps than a warrior!!!

Wethospu.6437:

Generally speaking, why would you even compare something arbitrary like personal damage when you aren’t soloing?

Wethospu.6437:

If you want to compare support builds, just remove 25% from everyone else’s DPS and give it to the support warrior.

This burns so badly that I cannot even stop rofl.

Also, this topic seems to look for a legitimate excuse to exclude a certain class out of the group because “their personal DPS in a perfectly vacuum group setting is not good enough to warrant their spot in the party”. And you guys don’t even consider the encounters !!!
How many of pugs can bypass 2 phases of Grawl Shaman, Ashym? How many of them can cleave and burst all the champions in Uncategorized fractals in 2 Ice Bow sitting? How many of them can dodge Archdiviner or Mossman and not get carried by Deep Freeze?

Anyhow, Wethospu summed it up perfectly. Striving for a commonly good DPS comp without an actual insight on the encounter is a bit of irony.

Individual DPS is meaningless in 5 person content. Compare different 5 person compositions if you want meaningful numbers. This is why we don’t/haven’t bothered putting out updated DPS numbers.

Actual dps tierlist ( not including exploits like icebow or using whirl against a wall for higher dmg)
1)Hybrid Necro
2)Normal Power necro
3)Executioner necro(coming soon)
4)Healing guard
5)Warrior that doesn’t drop banners
6)Warrior that drops banners
7)Other classes are irrelevant cuz things like stealth and reflects are exploits

stambogalizi.8356:

Actual dps tierlist ( not including exploits like icebow or using whirl against a wall for higher dmg)
1)Hybrid Necro
2)Normal Power necro
3)Executioner necro(coming soon)
4)Healing guard
5)Warrior that doesn’t drop banners
5)Warrior that drops banners
6)Other classes are irrelevant cuz things like stealth and reflects are exploits

Maniacal laugh/10

Wethospu.6437:

Generally speaking, why would you even compare something arbitrary like personal damage when you aren’t soloing?

Ehh, I’m curious about it just to know. But, really you have kind of 3-4 main roles in a group, you have the person who helps your skips through stealth/portals/whatever. You have the projectile defense. You have the offensive buffing (fury/might) and the debuffing (mainly vuln but chill/immob can be wonderful as well). In the end you end up with a slot or two which is pretty much focusing on DPS, so it’s interesting to know what is best in that slot.

Of course I think most of us know that in the end it doesn’t really make much of a difference, few seconds at most, and with the different encounter mechanics things change (mobile boss? phases? hitbox size? frequency of “must avoid” attacks?) so it isn’t all that practical but an interesting topic of discussion to me at least.

That said I think Iris hit the negative element of this discussion, that people will just take it and become elitist tryhard morons, so /shrug.

Bearbow for best DPS. Dat double longbow swap too

savacli.8172:

Bearbow for best DPS. Dat double longbow swap too

For sure, quick draw point blank shot ftw

savacli.8172:

Bearbow for best DPS. Dat double longbow swap too

Only if your bear is named Mike Ditka

Anyone else care to venture a guess at DPS rankings?

Is this top dps in an optimal group? Like if a PS warrior and banners are present while everyone has fury.

Then within that group assuming 3 of the 5 classes are bringing the stat buffs, vuln and might etc..

Which classes filling in the last spots would then add the most dps? Is this how we listing because that is what matters imo

NikeEU.7690:

Individual DPS is meaningless in 5 person content. Compare different 5 person compositions if you want meaningful numbers. This is why we don’t/haven’t bothered putting out updated DPS numbers.

While I genuinely agree with what you’re saying, utilities like this were incredible and relied on personal DPS numbers in order to generate actual five-man team DPS numbers. It would be really great if this sort of tool were possible again with all the updates that have happened since then.

Why not put dps numbers out with all the metabuilds while having a couple buddies put all the expected buffs on you, that one would expect in a coordinated fractal group. So the only difference would be the damage potential of the builds and not which class has access to which personal modifiers.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Why not put dps numbers out with all the metabuilds while having a couple buddies put all the expected buffs on you, that one would expect in a coordinated fractal group. So the only difference would be the damage potential of the builds and not which class has access to which personal modifiers.

The problem is that this completely changes per encounter, depending on hitbox size, having to dodge attacks, boss moving, etc.
We already did this on target golems, but that in no way gives a realistic representation of a build performing in an actual fractal/dungeon scenario

bladex.9502:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Why not put dps numbers out with all the metabuilds while having a couple buddies put all the expected buffs on you, that one would expect in a coordinated fractal group. So the only difference would be the damage potential of the builds and not which class has access to which personal modifiers.

The problem is that this completely changes per encounter, depending on hitbox size, having to dodge attacks, boss moving, etc.
We already did this on target golems, but that in no way gives a realistic representation of a build performing in an actual fractal/dungeon scenario

Where can I see that up to date golem data? Or is it top secret?

It’s easier to work backwards then start with nothing. If you have baselines in perfect situation, then you can eliminate certain damage from rotations to ballpark from their for individual encounters.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

bladex.9502:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Why not put dps numbers out with all the metabuilds while having a couple buddies put all the expected buffs on you, that one would expect in a coordinated fractal group. So the only difference would be the damage potential of the builds and not which class has access to which personal modifiers.

The problem is that this completely changes per encounter, depending on hitbox size, having to dodge attacks, boss moving, etc.
We already did this on target golems, but that in no way gives a realistic representation of a build performing in an actual fractal/dungeon scenario

Where can I see that up to date golem data? Or is it top secret?

It’s easier to work backwards then start with nothing. If you have baselines in perfect situation, then you can eliminate certain damage from rotations to ballpark from their for individual encounters.

1. ele – 23s
2. warrior – 38s
3. engi – 45 seconds
4. mesmer – 45 seconds (stop censoring stupid things anet)
5. thief – 47s
6. guardian – 49s
7. necro – 50s
8. ranger – 54s

This is based on “killing” the indestructible golem 4 times in a row.
Keep in mind that this is against a target that doesn’t move nor attack, so things like mesmer come out way higher than in an actual scenario

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

bladex.9502:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Why not put dps numbers out with all the metabuilds while having a couple buddies put all the expected buffs on you, that one would expect in a coordinated fractal group. So the only difference would be the damage potential of the builds and not which class has access to which personal modifiers.

The problem is that this completely changes per encounter, depending on hitbox size, having to dodge attacks, boss moving, etc.
We already did this on target golems, but that in no way gives a realistic representation of a build performing in an actual fractal/dungeon scenario

Where can I see that up to date golem data? Or is it top secret?

It’s easier to work backwards then start with nothing. If you have baselines in perfect situation, then you can eliminate certain damage from rotations to ballpark from their for individual encounters.

There’s a solo one a few weeks back something about rev for title. But again solo so no buffs from other sources.

Overall all these DPS things are quite unrealistic, you have to apply some thought and kind of factor how it changes the situation. On Engi I’m often using various forms of CC (Blind/Immob mostly) and in doing so my DPS surely drops quite a bit. All these in a vacuum tests just show us the potential.

Jerus.4350:

Overall all these DPS things are quite unrealistic, you have to apply some thought and kind of factor how it changes the situation. On Engi I’m often using various forms of CC (Blind/Immob mostly) and in doing so my DPS surely drops quite a bit. All these in a vacuum tests just show us the potential.

I found out recently that an engineer only needs like 80% rotational efficiency to beat thief dps, you can kitten kitten up and still be the best choice for encounters where you want stealth.

SlyDevil.3952:

I found out recently that an engineer only needs like 80% rotational efficiency to beat thief dps, you can kitten kitten up and still be the best choice for encounters where you want stealth.

Still, reaching 80% rotational efficiency is hard to get in a fight situation. You need to be a decent engineer to achieve that, while the Thief still have better access to stealth compare to the 20-25second CD for the Engineer and the Thief have better access to blind.

They are both equally good choice with their own strength and weakness. The specialisation update really closed the gap between several profession.

You wont always reach 100% rotational efficiency with a Thief either due to backstab positioning and bosses that like to randomly walk/turn around (i.e Slick, Champion Searing Effigy etc)

SlyDevil.3952:

Jerus.4350:

Overall all these DPS things are quite unrealistic, you have to apply some thought and kind of factor how it changes the situation. On Engi I’m often using various forms of CC (Blind/Immob mostly) and in doing so my DPS surely drops quite a bit. All these in a vacuum tests just show us the potential.

I found out recently that an engineer only needs like 80% rotational efficiency to beat thief dps, you can kitten kitten up and still be the best choice for encounters where you want stealth.

Well obviously Engi > Thief, and now with the new stealth bot maybe we can do the neat pathing tricks that were the reason to take a thief over engi before (at least IMO).

stambogalizi.8356:

Actual dps tierlist ( not including exploits like icebow or using whirl against a wall for higher dmg)
1)Hybrid Necro
2)Normal Power necro
3)Executioner necro(coming soon)
4)Healing guard
5)Warrior that doesn’t drop banners
6)Warrior that drops banners
7)Other classes are irrelevant cuz things like stealth and reflects are exploits

10/10 laughed hard would read again.

Jerus.4350:

SlyDevil.3952:

Jerus.4350:

Overall all these DPS things are quite unrealistic, you have to apply some thought and kind of factor how it changes the situation. On Engi I’m often using various forms of CC (Blind/Immob mostly) and in doing so my DPS surely drops quite a bit. All these in a vacuum tests just show us the potential.

I found out recently that an engineer only needs like 80% rotational efficiency to beat thief dps, you can kitten kitten up and still be the best choice for encounters where you want stealth.

Well obviously Engi > Thief, and now with the new stealth bot maybe we can do the neat pathing tricks that were the reason to take a thief over engi before (at least IMO).

Then our engi meets the Legendary Dredge Mining Suit, Subject Alpha and Alphard – he frowns. But it’s not like the thief has an easier time fully meleeing the Dredge Mining Suit either. If the group tries to achieve the highest burst damage possible then everything needs to be buffed around the ice bows and ice bow holders. Thief is much more preferred in any fast run groups just because he supports and utilizes icebow better than the engi. If such group requires more than 2 ice bow sitting than they seriously need to consider swapping out classes for more sustained DPS. In that case, each individual efficiency counts towards the personal DPS of the comp. Things like how close you are to the highest damage number, how many melee hit per second, how many perfect reflect, how often you can burst, how often you take hit, how often you can maintain conditioned damage modifiers, etc.

Iris Ng.9845:

Thief is much more preferred in any fast run groups just because he supports and utilizes icebow better than the engi.

Berserker engie is weaker than Thief with ice bow, yes, but the difference isn’t noticeable to the human eye. A 9 second ice bow boss fight lasts 9.5 with berserker engie in place of thief, and thats being generous to the Thief. Whoop de doo.

I can’t wait for Ice Bow to be gone then we get to read all the threads about how useless Thief is as a class in PvE.

NikeEU.7690:

Iris Ng.9845:

Thief is much more preferred in any fast run groups just because he supports and utilizes icebow better than the engi.

Berserker engie is weaker than Thief with ice bow, yes, but the difference isn’t noticeable to the human eye. A 9 second ice bow boss fight lasts 9.5 with berserker engie in place of thief, and thats being generous to the Thief. Whoop de doo.

I can’t wait for Ice Bow to be gone then we get to read all the threads about how useless Thief is as a class in PvE.

Thief is useless? Stealth is useless? high damage in single target is useless?

Draco.9480:

NikeEU.7690:

Iris Ng.9845:

Thief is much more preferred in any fast run groups just because he supports and utilizes icebow better than the engi.

Berserker engie is weaker than Thief with ice bow, yes, but the difference isn’t noticeable to the human eye. A 9 second ice bow boss fight lasts 9.5 with berserker engie in place of thief, and thats being generous to the Thief. Whoop de doo.

I can’t wait for Ice Bow to be gone then we get to read all the threads about how useless Thief is as a class in PvE.

Thief is useless? Stealth is useless? high damage in single target is useless?

Thief has pretty much nothing that cannot be done by an engineer as well.

Draco.9480:

NikeEU.7690:

Iris Ng.9845:

Thief is much more preferred in any fast run groups just because he supports and utilizes icebow better than the engi.

Berserker engie is weaker than Thief with ice bow, yes, but the difference isn’t noticeable to the human eye. A 9 second ice bow boss fight lasts 9.5 with berserker engie in place of thief, and thats being generous to the Thief. Whoop de doo.

I can’t wait for Ice Bow to be gone then we get to read all the threads about how useless Thief is as a class in PvE.

Thief is useless? Stealth is useless? high damage in single target is useless?

Try cleave.

Iris Ng.9845:

Try cleave.

???

I’m pretty sure Engineer has better cleave than Thief, too.

Y u no like engi Iris? :/

NikeEU.7690:

I can’t wait for Ice Bow to be gone then we get to read all the threads about how useless Thief is as a class in PvE.

Has anything indicated that this will ever be the case?

Zui.9245:

Iris Ng.9845:

Try cleave.

???

I’m pretty sure Engineer has better cleave than Thief, too.

Yea. That’s what I want to say in the reply to the post about thief .__.

No Pulse.2967:

Y u no like engi Iris? :/

I like engi.

Draco.9480:

NikeEU.7690:

Iris Ng.9845:

Thief is much more preferred in any fast run groups just because he supports and utilizes icebow better than the engi.

Berserker engie is weaker than Thief with ice bow, yes, but the difference isn’t noticeable to the human eye. A 9 second ice bow boss fight lasts 9.5 with berserker engie in place of thief, and thats being generous to the Thief. Whoop de doo.

I can’t wait for Ice Bow to be gone then we get to read all the threads about how useless Thief is as a class in PvE.

Thief is useless? Stealth is useless? high damage in single target is useless?

This was true pre specialization patch, but not anymore unfortunately. Thief DPS wasn’t improved as much as other profession. It’s not the highest single target dps anymore. It dropped by a lot, while the engineer got higher. Thief is still better than engineer for stealth/blind, but Engineer have enough for most current content with more dps and vulnerability.

Thief is still good, but the time when Thief was an obvious choice over Engineer isn’t there anymore.

NikeEU.7690:

Iris Ng.9845:

Thief is much more preferred in any fast run groups just because he supports and utilizes icebow better than the engi.

Berserker engie is weaker than Thief with ice bow, yes, but the difference isn’t noticeable to the human eye. A 9 second ice bow boss fight lasts 9.5 with berserker engie in place of thief, and thats being generous to the Thief. Whoop de doo.

I can’t wait for Ice Bow to be gone then we get to read all the threads about how useless Thief is as a class in PvE.

More like, As we get more ways to conter-play stealth, theifs will complan they are now useless and can’t play anymore.

stambogalizi.8356:

Actual dps tierlist ( not including exploits like icebow or using whirl against a wall for higher dmg)
1)Hybrid Necro
2)Normal Power necro
3)Executioner necro(coming soon)
4)Healing guard
5)Warrior that doesn’t drop banners
6)Warrior that drops banners
7)Other classes are irrelevant cuz things like stealth and reflects are exploits

You forgot glass cannon dps Guardian, glass cannon mesmer and hybrid mesmer.

Eponet.4829:

stambogalizi.8356:

7)Other classes are irrelevant cuz things like stealth and reflects are exploits

You forgot glass cannon dps Guardian, glass cannon mesmer and hybrid mesmer.

Nope totally covered.

Lendruil.9061:

Draco.9480:

NikeEU.7690:

Iris Ng.9845:

Thief is much more preferred in any fast run groups just because he supports and utilizes icebow better than the engi.

Berserker engie is weaker than Thief with ice bow, yes, but the difference isn’t noticeable to the human eye. A 9 second ice bow boss fight lasts 9.5 with berserker engie in place of thief, and thats being generous to the Thief. Whoop de doo.

I can’t wait for Ice Bow to be gone then we get to read all the threads about how useless Thief is as a class in PvE.

Thief is useless? Stealth is useless? high damage in single target is useless?

Thief has pretty much nothing that cannot be done by an engineer as well.

Oh, brilliant, does that mean we can finally do arah records with engineers blinking through walls?