Guild Wars 2

When in comes to Dungeons Blizzard were pros at it. And with them firing more then half of the WoW Developers they are all out there ripe for the picking.

SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! GET SOME! Really ANet these dungeons are TRASH! You do NOT punish the player for wanting to do something other then wait for Events or PvP.

What exactly about dungeons are ‘trash’?

lcpdragonslayer.7895:

What exactly about dungeons are ‘trash’?

Difficulty curve is to high at lower dungeon.
Rewards and XP are too low for said Difficulty.
“Random” traps basically wipe first time dungeon players.
Adds are placed too close together.
No group search system.
No proper healing/tank group.
No real reason to actually do dungeons.
Level Limit breaks dungeons.

At this point I hope you are being sarcastic.

I know there is more. But I haven’t eaten at all today and my head isn’t in it’s proper place. (Doesn’t hinder gaming performance)

I’m not being sarcastic. I just don’t understand – if you wanted easy dungeons that rely on the traditional healer, tank and damage-dealing roles then why are you playing GW2?

I don’t get why not having a healer and a tank in your group is making dungeons being trash, please explain your reasoning behind it.

If you want to play something that have healer and tank, well go play wow.
Ps: they also have panda

lcpdragonslayer.7895:

I’m not being sarcastic. I just don’t understand – if you wanted easy dungeons that rely on the traditional healer, tank and damage-dealing roles then why are you playing GW2?

Because I also what dungeons that are a challenge. These dungeons are more of ANet saying “We hate you and everything you stand for.” Which isn’t fair at all for the upcoming players from WoW, LOTRO, and other MMOs.

This MMO has the chance to be better then WoW. But it’s things like this that make everyone look away in disgust.

And the traditional Healer, Tank, Damage roles is more of the only way to do dungeons. There are other ways. But the reason the traditional dungeon experience is used constantly by every MMO is because of how well it works. Allowing players to use the full extent of the abilities given to help, not only themselves, but others complete the dungeon and reap the rewards of teamwork.

This dungeon thing is more like… What twilight did to vampires… Best way to describe it.

This isn’t a traditional MMO. Dungeons are fine in my opinion. The rewards do need to be a little better though. Get used to it or move on.

Deathrow.3042:

This isn’t a traditional MMO. Dungeons are fine in my opinion. The rewards do need to be a little better though. Get used to it or move on.

No! This is a traditional MMO. It’s just trying to hide behind lazy devs. Actually this is borderline WoW clone. PvP is a bit different but there are still broken classes. Dungeons need to be removed, or worked extremely hard on. And there are so many bugs it hurts my fingers. Just like WoW!

A Non Traditional MMO is something like Battlestar Galatica. Or even Star Trek. Hell DayZ and WarZ can fall into that category.

But GW2 is very traditional.

These instances are much better than WoW ones, the only down side is that currently the rewards are a little poor via drops, the token rewards are fine and stay true to their founding game.

As a play that plays Tanks or Healers in other MMO’s I still play a fairly durable role, however the party does not rely on me carrying them through instances, and that is what most instancess have become in many other games, one or two players carrying the party. At least in Guildwars 2 the party members all shoulder the responsibility a little bit more, while you can still carry people it is to a much lesser extent, and in return the people that do struggle will learn to stand on their own two feet, you cannot learn by being babied like many games do right now.

Things they can do to improve these instances:
Change their idea of all content is high end, and make instances have a difficulty scale, low level ones can teach more such as more simple spell effects, smaller circles to get out of.

Better loot rewards for players from each boss encounter. (currently being worked on)

More notable features on the mini map. This is mainly aimed at party leaders with no voice communication, using the Shift and click on mini map you can then point out objectives more clearly while setting up a plan of action for the instance event.

More consistency on spell effects, such as having set delays on red circles for a type of attack, unlike champion spiders and Lupi in arah, where it is based on travel distance.

Overall these are small things but take time to change, and I am sure we will see changes in the future of the game that will make content more “assessable” to the players that are currently struggling with the new game style of this game, however, throwing the toy out of the pram and saying its to hard I don’t like it, will not fix anything, and if you do not like the game style in any shape or form it is unrealistic to expect them to change the entire way a game works, changing a combat system that has been built in to the game from the ground up is not an option. Me my self, love this game and how it works, and hope they do not change to much, I just feel they need to implement some learning tools for players that struggle and help them out a little bit, because at the end of the day, no body likes and empty game.

I’ll tempt fate and comment here.

GW2 took a different path on Dungeons entirely. An abandonment of many of the concepts you vaguely highlighted, in favor of embracing new sorts of challenges. But, why not hit your points one by one?

High Difficulty:
This one is a trick. MOST dungeon routes are generally do-able with most party compositions. That is, the trick is you have to learn what element is troublesome, and then find the way around it. Party formations, when to dodge, who to take out first, or a more complicated objective. These are some of those elements that the players have to adapt to. It’s sort of the mentality of Demons Souls, really. The game makes you adapt to it until you are good enough to handle the challenge.

Rewards and XP too low:
I might beg to differ on this one. While learning a dungeon may have a higher armor repair cost, it generally, on a very bad run, will neutralize the rewards you get for completion, this not including the value of dropped items. XP is another case entirely, with almost a level gained per dungeon run at level 80.

Traps:
This is an element of caution. A wary party would be wise to probe for what lays ahead than jumping into the fray unprepared. Entirely an element of the experience of the dungeon.

Additional mobs/agro:
For the most part, this isn’t too much of an issue. Some dungeon sequences will send a large number of foes fairly quickly, but quick adaptation can handle this in many cases. For the majority of the dungeon, a party can siphon off a bite sized chunk of mob that they can handle.

Group Search:
Location and Organization here.
A. Form up outside the dungeon for pick up groups.
B. Wait in a major city (Lion’s Arch) to recruit or find other groups
C. Form/Join a guild and run with them.
It may be nice to have a specific feature, but options are there.

Healing/Tank (Trinity)
Individually, and as a group, players are ultimately responsible for their own survivability. Ranged can stay alive fairly easily by keeping out of range of foes that will deal heavy damage to them. Melee can use well timed dodge maneuvers, and if worse comes to worse, have the party fall in to keep alive. There’s no need for a tank/damage/heal setup here. The responsibility is on the individual player to keep themselves alive, and if that fails, to keep each other up and moving. It’s a coordinated effort, but by no means is there a need for the trinity. Each player can fulfill those functions on their own. What teamwork means here is every player working together to accomplish that same objective—taking out the hardest foe first so it doesn’t overwhelm the party, not that the healer keeps the tank alive and the damage dealer to just unleash damage nonstop. It’s a more dynamic experience, more involved, and that level of individual responsibility greatly stimulates group work to achieve the greater objectives.

No reason to do Dungeons:
Comradery? Tokens? Armor? The thrill of experiencing the more developed, and puzzling aspects of the game? Drops and money aren’t the only reasons for Dungeons.

Level Limit Breaks dungeons:
This is a fun point to note. See, the level cap per dungeon actually makes balancing particularly easy. A team of players will have a relatively consistent challenge, regardless of their actual level. There’s no level 80 requirement for Ascalon Catacombs, and a level 80 will have a similar challenge to that of a level 35. That being said, the rewards can also be balanced for a level 80 just as they can for a level 35. The level cap genuinely makes dungeons better. The experience will remain the same, even if your level doesn’t.

GW2 aspired to follow it’s own path. What you are suggesting is that the game adopts some of the elements it chose to break away from, and hinder the experience they intended to create.

But, I ramble here.

I don’t want a trinity. This would make GW2 into a wow clone, and I don’t want a wow clone (I thought I’d never do pve again after wow and rift, now I’m pve’ing again thx to gw2).

I would agree on 3 things

1) reduce story mode difficulty for at least the ‘problem’ fights
2) buff rewards or give incentives to actually doing story more than once (or at all)
3) MAKE ENCOUNTERS FUN. I enjoy the lack of trinity. I enjoy challenges. I do not enjoy the same generic ‘dodge x, kite, heal, pew pew and revive as needed’ reincarnation in every single kitten run. Use a rating system for bosses or something like you did in betas for the events so you get an idea. Hire someone creative for encounter design, whatever. Most of this generic kite crap is tedious

and reduce trash clearing time. there’s a reason people try to ‘speed run’, it’s because trash is neither rewarding, nor fun and just eats up time or repair bills.

overall, the only thing they could really ‘borrow’ from blizzard is a group search function (not necessarily a random matchmaker, just a better LFG tool) and better encounter design. The trinity should stay dead

Hum… Guess there are as many opinions as there are people.

From my perspective, dungeons are fun. Yes, they can be difficult at first, but after you manage to clear it, the feeling of achieving something complex makes it worthwhile.

And well, since there is no gear treadmill once you get your exotic 80 set going (which isn’t required to perform well in dungeons!) and the loot sells for quite a decent amount, I don’t see the need to get epic loots that much, too. I can make quite ok money from dungeon runs, and since we have a solid group going, they’re painless, meaning no repair fees. Besides, love the fact that you can actually gear up your alternative chars (or prepare for that) on the main. Kudos for that update, Anet!

If you have a strong party, who doesn’t ragequit at first wipe when doing a dungeon for the first time, and is willing to adapt and communicate, I see no problem with them. Only issue I see is people who are used to being spoon-fed and I’m glad I can actually achieve things based on skill, not on numbers.

NightFire@ you really made me laugh by saying Blizzard to teach Anet how to make dungeons.Have you played current Mop dungeons?They are so pathetick and easy.People whined in Cata that opening dungeons are too hard and look what Blizzard mae now.Something that even casuals find noring and unsatisfying.So stop telling things like that are laughable.

This game is made to be without specific tanks and healers so stop asking for that too.This game has support,controll and damage.It’s good to have from each speciffic proffession in your group BUT you will be fine even if you are in a pug without a cordination of builds and traits.

Now it’s other thing if you have a specif group which you do dungeons with.For instance:
Healing – guardian or elemetalist
tankish or suport – warrior
suport – mesmer,thief,ranger
GW2 was made to be played as a team and not as individuals.Because it’s good when your spells and abilities combine and improve your profession.And i say it again GW2 dungeons are made for pugs and for profetionals.

No real reason to do dungeons?Are you kidding me?There is a reason and it’s called good looking skin.I have 4 dungeons which i farm for a cool looking armor and still have to farm the armor from 44k karma.
Anet may have removed WoW’s gear tread mill but they added something else and it’s called fashion and i like it that way.I’m glad that they are not following the traditional MMO gear tread mill.

Dificulty and experience of low dungeons is tuned fine.I don’t see any problem with it.
Level limit and down scaling is a good thing.This means there will always be a challenge for you.And you won’t over gear the content because the gear isn’t improving so much at the End game.People just learn how to play and what to do.What to avoid and how to stay alive.
You again talk nonsence.

The next thing that you are wrong is LFG tool missing.It is here you just don’t know about it.Yes it needs improvements but from what you wrote i come to conclusion that you want a cross realm,automated LFG system and THAT is not needed in this game.Stop trying to make GW2 look more like WoW,Rift,SWTOR.All this games have such a tool so go play them instead.

Your statement about Blizzard doing good dungeons lol are you kidding me?They can’t decide how hard to make them mate.1-60/70-80/85-90 are not even hard.You just sit and aoe.WTF is that?

GW2 dungeons have flaws yes.Instances need improvements but HEY the game just launched and WoW had 8 years to evolve so shush!

the Dungeons are fine, they shouldn’t re-design them because FEW players, think there set up is hard, we have decent self heals+professions with party wide heals/supports(guardian+engineer+ele=main 3 for party heals+supports), we have “EVADE”, wich i might add, will keep any quarter decent player out the AoE, and if u wipe at a trap, you need to fix your Toughness/Vitality trait’s, rewards are fine for how easy/short the dungeon “path” is, the only 1 i will say gave me trouble, was Ascalon Catacomb’s, it was my first dungeon, wasn’t sure what to expect from dungeon’s, but 5 min’s into the run, i was smarter then the Average player, and let the war run atleast a aggro bubble ahead, to be the 1 who initiates aggro,, but you don’t need a war or guardian to tank, i seen Thief’s tank fairly easy.

also i thought WoW dungeons were trash compared to gw1 dungeons, and i like gw2 dungeons better then gw1.

it’s the player, not the game.

VanderBeltLegacy.4736:

the Dungeons are fine, they shouldn’t re-design them because FEW players, think there set up is hard, we have decent self heals+professions with party wide heals/supports(guardian+engineer+ele=main 3 for party heals+supports), we have “EVADE”, wich i might add, will keep any quarter decent player out the AoE, and if u wipe at a trap, you need to fix your Toughness/Vitality trait’s, rewards are fine for how easy/short the dungeon “path” is, the only 1 i will say gave me trouble, was Ascalon Catacomb’s, it was my first dungeon, wasn’t sure what to expect from dungeon’s, but 5 min’s into the run, i was smarter then the Average player, and let the war run atleast a aggro bubble ahead, to be the 1 who initiates aggro,, but you don’t need a war or guardian to tank, i seen Thief’s tank fairly easy.

also i thought WoW dungeons were trash compared to gw1 dungeons, and i like gw2 dungeons better then gw1.

it’s the player, not the game.

I think you’ll find it’s more than just a few.

Blizzard is well known for dumbing down any difficult content. If you really want to play easy game, go play wow. Anet will never dumb down the difficulty too much, although some dungeon really need some balancing.

Vees.7816:

VanderBeltLegacy.4736:

the Dungeons are fine, they shouldn’t re-design them because FEW players, think there set up is hard, we have decent self heals+professions with party wide heals/supports(guardian+engineer+ele=main 3 for party heals+supports), we have “EVADE”, wich i might add, will keep any quarter decent player out the AoE, and if u wipe at a trap, you need to fix your Toughness/Vitality trait’s, rewards are fine for how easy/short the dungeon “path” is, the only 1 i will say gave me trouble, was Ascalon Catacomb’s, it was my first dungeon, wasn’t sure what to expect from dungeon’s, but 5 min’s into the run, i was smarter then the Average player, and let the war run atleast a aggro bubble ahead, to be the 1 who initiates aggro,, but you don’t need a war or guardian to tank, i seen Thief’s tank fairly easy.

also i thought WoW dungeons were trash compared to gw1 dungeons, and i like gw2 dungeons better then gw1.

it’s the player, not the game.

I think you’ll find it’s more than just a few.

well i find in game, no 1 thinks there that hard to warrant a specific healing class, and let’s see, there’s the OP, and maybe you?….and a bunch of other posters on this forum, agree with me from what i’m reading(maybe not about the rewards).

Dungeons are fine even with pug, I usually run em with pugs and almost always we clear without problems( last day we cleared 3paths of SE really smooth, and in a PUG).
What need to be addressed it’s the chest/boss drops, but they(ANET) already said that the next dungeon patch will get that.
Other than that change your tactics or read them before going an explore mode.

So, The problem you are having is that you want to be able to hit 1 repeatedly and win legendaries? Really? All the dungeons are very doable with time, effort and a good team.

If they were impossible me and some other people wouldn’t have the title for completing them all. You have to remember that the dungeons are the raid equivalent content in this game. They aren’t dungeons in the WoW sense of the word.

There’s nothing wrong with the dungeon difficulty, What the real problem here is is the ‘I want everything handed to me for no effort mentality’ that other MMO’s like WoW have instilled in people.

You also seem to miss the point entirely of dungeons it’s not about rewards it’s about enjoying the content itself with the rewards being a perk or purely aesthetic. If you don’t enjoy the dungeons fair enough but Anet have done an amazing job on these dungeons I’m very happy they aren’t listening to all this QQ about difficulty.

As for Guild Wars 2 being traditional, it really isn’t… sure it has basic mechanics of mmo’s but it’s nothing like WoW, Tera, Aion, SWtor or any of the wow clones when it comes to the experience itself or the way it approaches everything.

Edit: Plus, All Blizzard cares about is money and milking you dry. They wouldn’t care less otherwise.