Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.

Only if you view worth as purely a monetary thing. Which is the point that was being made, is that worth is not strictly a monetary thing.

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.

There is no objective measure of worth. Worth is subjective.

To someone with ten million gold a 3% increase in power for the cost of a measly ten thousand gold, a negligible one tenth of one percent of his total wealth, might very well be worth it. Others might consider ten grand for such a minor power increase to be excessive. Yet another millionaire might decide that he did not work his tail off earning such a fortune only to waste it on gear that provides a measly 3% power increase.

Completely subjective.

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: Avarice.2791

Avarice.2791

Personally I avoid full ascended players (unless they are in speed running groups or use expensive stat sets like vipers), cause who in his right mind would think ascended armor is worth it? Usually they use bad rotations and kitten up.

No disrespect, but the logic…just is not here…

Sure, they can buy their Ascended Gear with $$$ and call it skill, but any player can buy an exotic set off of 60 minutes worth of playing. This is why I do not deal with pugs. Ascended Gear != automatic skill. It merely indicates it over a broad spectrum of players. It’s an advantage, however small. There is literally no reason to avoid a full ascended player. There is literally no reason to not set a goal to be in full ascended gear in regards to raiding. (If buying cool transmogs and dyes is your thing have at it outside of raiding)

You naturally accumulate gold from playing this game. I think i’ve put about 1400 hours in and my account worth is around 13,000 gold. (This includes skins and such that I’ve simply unlocked and such but it is still considered gold gained) I don’t farm gold, I don’t go out of my way to do content because the gold gain is high. I just play. With this logic I’ve potentially about 9g/Hour. So, perhaps if you are new to this game with <500 hours then Ascended Armor is far out of your reach, assuming you have the worst RNG in the world and can not get chests to drop for you. (I’ve gotten 8 armor chests and maybe 10 weapon chests.)

If not, I don’t see why your goal wouldn’t be to optimize your character regardless… Unless you don’t play this game?

(edited by Avarice.2791)

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: Harny.6012

Harny.6012

Why would people invest over 1000g for something that only increases 2-3% in the stats? Juste because people don’t have it doesn’t mean they suck and shouldn’t raid, I cleared the 1st wing with ascended trinkets only and there was no timer issue at all, so please stop saying it’s required or anything even for a dumb Vale Guardian, maybe for tank or healer but certainly not for DPS and condis…

Unless you’re soloing the raids, 2-3% x10 more damage is a pretty big difference.

2-3% difference is still just 2-3% difference.
Aren’t these LFGs done by people that want to get carried, in a way?

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Posted by: Blue Hare.8612

Blue Hare.8612

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Personally I avoid full ascended players (unless they are in speed running groups or use expensive stat sets like vipers), cause who in his right mind would think ascended armor is worth it? Usually they use bad rotations and kitten up.

Met this ranger once in a fractal group, he had full ascended armor and weapon (visible skins). All he did was camp longbow and autoattack. I think he was using celestial stats, at least the longbow skin was celestial, and he soaked damage like nothing. Just made me wonder how that is even possible.

First I tought that it must be some kid playing on a parent’s account or meybe he is drunk but after seeing so many afwul players with asc gear I don’t really know anymore.

{Lepus Timidus}

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: Saint.5647

Saint.5647

Unless you’re soloing the raids, 2-3% x10 more damage is a pretty big difference.

Yeah, almost up to 20% more damage, right… right?
Getting ascended armor for the stats has barely any use, but you could argue it shows the dedication of the majority to how serious they want to play that class.

That’s not how it works. If everyone is doing 2% more damage, the group is doing 2% more damage. To have a 20% group wide increase, everyone would need a 20% damage increase.

One True God
Fashion Forward!
Guild Wars Dinosaur

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.

There is no objective measure of worth. Worth is subjective.

To someone with ten million gold a 3% increase in power for the cost of a measly ten thousand gold, a negligible one tenth of one percent of his total wealth, might very well be worth it. Others might consider ten grand for such a minor power increase to be excessive. Yet another millionaire might decide that he did not work his tail off earning such a fortune only to waste it on gear that provides a measly 3% power increase.

Completely subjective.

OK but the ratio of cost to stats increase is itself an objective measure. Don’t get lost in the pedantic arguments of what it’s called, then turn around and claim it’s a subjective measure.

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.

Only if you view worth as purely a monetary thing. Which is the point that was being made, is that worth is not strictly a monetary thing.

Sure, but if you’re not just here to argue with me over definitions, then even you can see that cost/stats ratio is an objective measure for armor.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.

There is no objective measure of worth. Worth is subjective.

To someone with ten million gold a 3% increase in power for the cost of a measly ten thousand gold, a negligible one tenth of one percent of his total wealth, might very well be worth it. Others might consider ten grand for such a minor power increase to be excessive. Yet another millionaire might decide that he did not work his tail off earning such a fortune only to waste it on gear that provides a measly 3% power increase.

Completely subjective.

OK but the ratio of cost to stats increase is itself an objective measure. Don’t get lost in the pedantic arguments of what it’s called, then turn around and claim it’s a subjective measure.

Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…

Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.

Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.

Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.

Only if you view worth as purely a monetary thing. Which is the point that was being made, is that worth is not strictly a monetary thing.

Sure, but if you’re not just here to argue with me over definitions, then even you can see that cost/stats ratio is an objective measure for armor.

Sure, the ratio is objective. The subjective part is the decision by the individual player as to whether that ratio represents value to them or not.

Since this is a thread about Asc. armor requirements by raid PuG’s, I think we can safely say that the players making those groups consider the investment worthwhile, and those complaining about the requirements don’t.

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

That is reasonable. But I think the thread was not actually about what has more value to people; there is little to be gained in that discussion. It was simply the fact that Ascended armor isn’t necessary to complete raids, for organized groups or even for PUG’s. I think in either case, anyone insisting on Ascended gear simply doesn’t understand it’s impact on a groups ability to finish content. It’s in the noise.

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

Well, I’ll agree that the discussion of value has been a tangent. However, I’m not positive that those demanding Asc. Armor are thinking it’s necessary to beat the raid. It’s my belief they’re using it — rightly or wrongly — to filter out players who don’t think the way they do. We saw the same thing with Berserker gear in dungeons. It was clearly not necessary to beat the path, but it was insisted on because it was a filter that groups could use.

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

Well, I’ll agree that the discussion of value has been a tangent. However, I’m not positive that those demanding Asc. Armor are thinking it’s necessary to beat the raid. It’s my belief they’re using it — rightly or wrongly — to filter out players who don’t think the way they do. We saw the same thing with Berserker gear in dungeons. It was clearly not necessary to beat the path, but it was insisted on because it was a filter that groups could use.

They’re not using it because they think it’s necessary to beat the raid. They’re using it because it’s a filter. It’s a form of credential creep.

When you’re forming a PUG you don’t really have any idea what sort of skill level you’ll get. You could get pros, you could get scrubs. What Ascended gear does is filter down that group to a manageable number of applicants using a metric which correlates to performance. They literally just want less applicants, and the increase in time that they may experience is worth the reduction in applicants they need to consider.

Compare it to real life employment: If half the people have a Master’s in Literature and half the people don’t, even though the Master’s may have no practical application to the job, it’s still a marginal benefit which cuts down the pool by half.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

OK but the ratio of cost to stats increase is itself an objective measure.

Measure of what? What does it measure? The discussion was about worth, which is not measured by that ratio. The ratio is nothing but an obfuscation to cover the fact that the assertion was wrong. Even the ratio itself plays a purely subjective role in determining the worth of the gear. One player can point to it as evidence that the gear is well worth the price while another can use it as evidence that the gear is not worth the price.

Can we stop the ascended armor madness?

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

OK but the ratio of cost to stats increase is itself an objective measure.

Measure of what? What does it measure? The discussion was about worth, which is not measured by that ratio. The ratio is nothing but an obfuscation to cover the fact that the assertion was wrong. Even the ratio itself plays a purely subjective role in determining the worth of the gear. One player can point to it as evidence that the gear is well worth the price while another can use it as evidence that the gear is not worth the price.

For me it measures ROI. I give something, I get something back for it. That’s not just made up nonsense either; that’s pretty much exactly how every consumer or investor thinks too. Don’t try to pretend what I’ve proposed as a metric is so abstract that it doesn’t make sense.